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Of course there is nothing to stop anyone from making a facebook page with the name Little Grandmother and using it as a satirical page / critical page from which to warn people about this disgusting woman.
I was just wondering if this might be one possible way forward?
Of course she may contact facebook to say that she is being misrepresented and that our page is fake, but then people could do the same with her page and get it removed as she is misrepresenting herself and others.
Just thinking aloud really.
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Crowther wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I think we should use the same tactics that were done against the fraud Suraj Holzwarth.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1513.0
That includes facebook pages devoted todebunking her and organizing against her that dogged her every step.
http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=112090221020&topic=10901
And youtube videos spreading the word about her.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHtJYR-neIY&feature=related
All the same can and should be done vs Crowther, IMO.
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I am all for it - but would appreciate if a Native person would like to start a group.
I´ll be there...!
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I'll be there too :)
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I have been watching Kiesha Crowther's videos for a while, and am active on the forums on tribeofmanycolors.net, but i've felt like things are not adding up for a while already. There's a few things i'd like to set straight so first i will quote some of the things discussed in this topic and share what i know about them. Then i will share some of my personal experience. I hope we can get to the bottom of this.
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There's one thing about the website tribeofmanycolors.net; It is not run by Kiesha Crowther, but made voluntarily by a European man who found her videos on the internet. I do not know if he asked permission to make it; however Kiesha agrees with it and every now and then, through Facebook she posts a link to this website.
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She's clever enough to not post fees on her pages, but is asking for money on her Facebook Page.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Little-Grandmother/110183489016680?v=wall&story_fbid=107422722634384
Little Grandmother - "Dearest friends and family, members of the tribe of many colors.. Little Grandmother has fallen on very hard times, financially she has been grounded to a halt as she lives solely on the kindness of others and their donations. Please dear family if you can spare any offerings Little Grandmother is in need of the support. to send an offering send an email for more info."
May 2 at 6:29pm
The call for financial support on Facebook while she's supposed to be the woman from an age-old prophecy is strange indeed. I saw the post when she made it and at the time, it made me think her hardships might be some kind of test. An opportunity to strengthen the bond between her and her tribe or something. I have to say i have not seen her asking for money since or before. But yes it is strange. She is coming to speak in my country in a few weeks, very close to where i live, but i don't feel like paying anything, especially that much: 40 euros! (at this time, that's about 55 dollars).
I would like to quote this q/a from the FAQ on the tribeofmanycolors.net website, a little food for thought:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha-faq-answers/3-kiesha-crowther-little-grandmother/5-20-why-arent-your-workshops-and-talks-free.html
Why aren’t your workshops and talks free?
Because this is such an important question, we'd like to take some time in answering it.
Little Grandmother is committed to making her message and any information she receives from the spirits and Mother Earth freely available to all through the release of videos on YouTube. She will continue to make these available as important information comes through that she is asked to share with humanity. Her primary way of communicating and sharing the message is through these freely given videos, which reach people all over the globe more efficiently and effectively than doing events can.
Therefore, her traveling to do talks and workshops is something "extra" which she does not have to do in order to reach hearts. Her message that each of us is the Great I AM should prevent the thinking that she or anyone else is closer to Spirit/Source/the Divine than someone else, and that being in her presence is somehow necessary to "getting it".
Yet there are many people who are inspired and touched by her talks and wish to connect with her, work with her in a deeper way, and who want to hear her speak in person. For this purpose, she is willing to travel to do public talks and workshops—but this is a lot of work and energy-output on her part, being a highly sensitive being.
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On this site, one person mentions seeing in her videos she believes China will destroy the US, and that it's a good thing too.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1088572/pg1
This is not true, she has said that the US will lose some of it's power and that it won't be the most powerful country in the world anymore in the future. Where the China part comes in: she has said that another country, perhaps China or another country, might 'buy' a small part of the US or get control of it through cooperation, to prevent the US from fully deteriorating. Not through violent takeover. But yes, according to her, it would be a blessing, in a spiritual sense.
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Crowther's homepage is mentioned on lots of sites promoting the 2012 hoax. Both Crowther and Perez Oxlaj get mentioned on the site of a Barbara Svoboda from Germany who advertizes almost every person known in the 2012 movement. Svoboda's site mentions events with Tadeja Jere Lazanski, an associate professor of touristic studies from Slovenia – so this might be how Crowther came to plan events in that country: http://www.indalosia.de/Tadeja_Lazanski_Slovenia.htm (for texts in English language, pls scroll down). Lazanski in turn cooperates with Calleman, as one example.
I have never before heard of Barbara Svoboda, i don't think there's an affiliation between her and Kiesha Crowther. I have often heard of Perez Oxlaj, actually he recently said in a Eso.tv interview that nothing will happen in 2012. I haven't seen the interview but have read a review about it, which i think is good. You can find it here: http://jlnavarro.blogspot.com/2010/08/wandering-wolfs-esotv-webcast-message.html
I have also heard of Calleman and all his Conscious Convergence stuff. There were posts about it on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums (made by other forum members) but i never liked it. It didn't seem important to me.
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Was contacted today by someone saying that I must be happy about Arvol Looking Horse having a "representative" doing ceremonies in his spirit here in Sweden. I just asked "What??!" And got the reply that she was a Lakota named Little Grandmother.
Gaaaaah! I am trying to work out if SHE claims to be working with Arvol or if the organisers make that claim. But apparantly quite a few people think she is, so someone is promoting her with even more lies.
I have not heard of Arvol Looking Horse before or heard Kiesha Crowther speak about an affiliation with him. I will post a topic on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums asking if anyone has heard anything about an affiliation.
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My cousin and I have been quietly watching "little grandmother" for awhile on facebook. I signed up here to comment after seeing someone on facebook post that she had been mentioned on this forum. My cousin is pretty angry right now, trying to put word out about this woman. My family is Lakota. My cousin married a Salish and she and my grandmother live in the Flathead. She has shown pictures and video of this woman and her claims, and no one knows her or heard of her. Our family back in Lower Brule, do not know of her either except one who says she heard she was ordained by a new agey group in Colorado to go out and do these ceremonies with her crystals and that she has abandoned her children and husband to go and live this life. She is making other claims about how the Salish in the Flathead has made her a shaman over their people now. This is a lie as no one here hears of her.
I feel that all we can do is make demands for her to post pictures of her with family and elders to prove her claims. We do not know the entire story of what she is up to or why and trying to piece this together.
Now this is where it gets interesting. I also have never found any evidence, coming directly from a established indigenous tribe, that she's affiliated with them (so also not from Salish). I have never found any evidence of the supposed prophecy of a fair-haired girl coming to unite people, nor evidence of a prophecy about the Tribe of Many Colors. I have never found evidence that her mother is Salish, or evidence that these crystals which she is using for her ceremonies have indeed been safeguarded by indigenous tribes for many, many years. And i've seen every video, listened to every radio interview, and read every message that she's put out.
I remember that about a month ago, when i was already reading the newagefraud.org forums, she made a Facebook post (which is now deleted) about how she felt really hurt, when she heard that there are people who believe the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is fake. I don't remember exactly what she said but it comes down to something like: "I feel really hurt, these are some of the most beautiful indigenous elders/people on the planet, i am trying to change the channel (her way of saying: not giving energy to negativity) but having trouble with it". She still did not provide proof however. So today i have made a post on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums, asking if anyone can shed a light on this Continental council of indigenous elders.
In one of her videos she also tells this story about befriending an owl, and when the owl was dieing, it flew into her, getting it's talon stuck in her chest, after which it died in her arms... she says she still has this scar, and the talon, but she's never shown them. I don't know if it's considered to be disrespectful or anything to show such a personal item? But again, another lack of proof!
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Now for some other things i'd like to share...
First, what got me into this, was that a friend of mine was looking for information about shamans. I had been interested in reïncarnation, regression therapy and Buddhism for some time, but i was not very interested in shamanism before. I searched Youtube for the word 'shaman' and ended up at one of Kiesha Crowther's videos. It felt very uplifting. As she made so many references to indigenous tribes, it all seemed to be authentic. Quite a lot of the things she talked about, summed up a lot of stuff that i've read about before, and know to be true. I was touched by what she says about a difficult childhood: feeling very different, and finding refuge in nature when there was abuse going on in her home. I liked how her videos are free, how she remained humble by deliberately not wearing full regalia (While she had all the right to do this, right...?). I also believe that some of the things she says about communicating with animals are true.
I also liked how she says she is only a messenger, how she is not a guru or teacher, and all that. "This is only my task, everyone has another equal task". However... many of her followers (yes i do think some can be called followers) are very much focused on her, instead of the message. Just look at all the comments on her pictures on Facebook... her picture embedded in the tribeofmanycolors.net website... i feel like many of her followers are making her into a guru, rather than that she's doing this (or her "affiliates", as people in this topic call them).
One of her 'urgent messages' (about the Gulf oil spill) contains information that i believe was shared with her by someone who i found out to be very mentally unstable and in a lot of trouble. I know for a fact that she invited him to write down his 'knowledge' and share links (derived from all kinds of conspiracy websites of which some are very questionable) on her Facebook wall, which he did a LOT for some time. This is one of the things that first made me question her claims: if she can 'sense energy' so well, she would know not to cooperate with someone who needs help badly.
What really got me disillusioned is: in one of her internet radio interviews, she says there will be a 'cleanse', related to 2012/ascension stuff. Something along the lines of: "People who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, i'm saying this with all of my knowing and every fiber of my being", "to fully enlightened beings, death does not seem like death... the world will be beautiful afterwards". A little blend of Hopi prophecy apparently? (Right now i'm wondering: is that really true about Hopi prophecy, or is it all new-age mumbo jumbo?) When she said this, it really did not feel right to me.
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I always despised all this 'star child, crystal seed' stuff before, because it easily makes people think they're basically a superior race... but now i realize this tribe stuff is something similar. I like her message about being nice to each other, living in the heart, spending more time in nature. The world would be wonderful if many more people would do that. But there's a difference between living from the heart, being nice to people, following your intuition - and shutting down your mind.
I think Kiesha Crowther does have some good things to share, and that she believes in what she does. But possibly she is very much misguided, and i really would like to see either some proof, or some further debunking about her 'indigenous claims'. Perhaps i'll watch a new video when it comes out to see if she has anything new to share. Best thing for me to do anyhow, seems just to move on.
And finally, thank you people for this great website :)
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http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha-faq-answers/3-kiesha-crowther-little-grandmother/5-20-why-arent-your-workshops-and-talks-free.html
Why aren’t your workshops and talks free?
Because this is such an important question, we'd like to take some time in answering it.
Little Grandmother is committed to making her message and any information she receives from the spirits and Mother Earth freely available to all through the release of videos on YouTube. She will continue to make these available as important information comes through that she is asked to share with humanity. Her primary way of communicating and sharing the message is through these freely given videos, which reach people all over the globe more efficiently and effectively than doing events can.
Therefore, her traveling to do talks and workshops is something "extra" which she does not have to do in order to reach hearts. Her message that each of us is the Great I AM should prevent the thinking that she or anyone else is closer to Spirit/Source/the Divine than someone else, and that being in her presence is somehow necessary to "getting it".
Yet there are many people who are inspired and touched by her talks and wish to connect with her, work with her in a deeper way, and who want to hear her speak in person. For this purpose, she is willing to travel to do public talks and workshops—but this is a lot of work and energy-output on her part, being a highly sensitive being.
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This is just... well, first I laughed.. but seriously, the issues are of massive ego and mentally unstable.
People with hard childhoods often seek a grandeur reasoning for their life.. and use that to bolster
their egos and perhaps even their sanity while being so tortured. But, it is not real. And at some
point, it will crash. It is sad. While I do believe these people COULD have sensitivities to spiritual worlds..
their lack of mental stability makes them inept. And that is sad..
What's even sadder is they go around claiming to teach.. and guide.. and hurting others by doing so.
But the need for this belief of their self is what keeps them from totally losing it.. and I suspect this
Keisha is in that boat. The woman does not come across to me as being mentally stable, or
even real, especially her claims. Having been on Nafps this long I have learned enough to know that
no native tribe would be affiliated with someone like her.. and seriously, the spirits that affiliate with
any native tribe, would have no reason to use some person outside of tribe to conduit.. and certainly
not a mentally unstable person such as herself.
Her claims are simply false. Sure, she may touch on spiritual essence from time to time, but so do
many others.. this does not make her humanity's messenger..
As for being so sensitive. That is just bull. That is just more her trying to upscale herself from
regular humans..
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1...she has said that the US will lose some of it's power and that it won't be the most powerful country in the world anymore in the future. Where the China part comes in: she has said that another country, perhaps China or another country, might 'buy' a small part of the US or get control of it through cooperation, to prevent the US from fully deteriorating. Not through violent takeover. But yes, according to her, it would be a blessing, in a spiritual sense....
2. I also have never found any evidence, coming directly from a established indigenous tribe, that she's affiliated with them (so also not from Salish). I have never found any evidence of the supposed prophecy of a fair-haired girl coming to unite people, nor evidence of a prophecy about the Tribe of Many Colors. I have never found evidence that her mother is Salish, or evidence that these crystals which she is using for her ceremonies have indeed been safeguarded by indigenous tribes for many, many years. And i've seen every video, listened to every radio interview, and read every message that she's put out.
3. I remember that about a month ago, when i was already reading the newagefraud.org forums, she made a Facebook post (which is now deleted) about how she felt really hurt, when she heard that there are people who believe the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is fake. I don't remember exactly what she said but it comes down to something like: "I feel really hurt, these are some of the most beautiful indigenous elders/people on the planet, i am trying to change the channel (her way of saying: not giving energy to negativity) but having trouble with it". She still did not provide proof however. So today i have made a post on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums, asking if anyone can shed a light on this Continental council of indigenous elders.
4. In one of her videos she also tells this story about befriending an owl, and when the owl was dieing, it flew into her, getting it's talon stuck in her chest, after which it died in her arms... she says she still has this scar, and the talon, but she's never shown them. I don't know if it's considered to be disrespectful or anything to show such a personal item? But again, another lack of proof!
5....I searched Youtube for the word 'shaman' and ended up at one of Kiesha Crowther's videos. It felt very uplifting, right away, she really touched my heart. As she made so many references to indigenous tribes, it all felt very authentic. Quite a lot of the things she talked about, summed up a lot of stuff that i've read about before, and know to be true. I was touched by what she says about a difficult childhood: feeling very different, and finding refuge in nature when there was abuse going on in her home. I liked how her videos are free,
6. how she remained humble by deliberately not wearing full regalia (While she had all the right to do this, right...?)
7. I also liked how she says she is only a messenger, how she is not a guru or teacher, and all that....i feel like many of her followers are making her into a guru, rather than that she's doing this (or her "affiliates", as people in this topic call them).
8....What really got me disillusioned is: in one of her internet radio interviews, she says there will be a 'cleanse', related to 2012/ascension stuff. Something along the lines of: "People who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, i'm saying this with all of my knowing and every fiber of my being", "to fully enlightened beings, death does not seem like death... the world will be beautiful afterwards". A little blend of Hopi prophecy apparently? (Right now i'm wondering: is that really true about Hopi prophecy, or is it all new-age mumbo jumbo?)
9. I like her message about being nice to each other, living in the heart, spending more time in nature. The world would be wonderful if many more people would do that. But there's a difference between living from the heart, being nice to people, following your intuition - and shutting down your mind, which i sadly have to say, quite a lot of the followers seem to be doing.
10. I'm sure Kiesha Crowther is not a bad person, she does have some very good things to share, and that she believes in what she does. But possibly she is very much misguided, and i really would like to see either some proof, or some further debunking about her 'indigenous claims'.
11....And finally, thank you people for this great website :)
Crescent, thanks for all the information and insight, and welcome. I've put numbers to make it clearer what I'm responding to.
1. That kind of "prophecy" is not exactly insightful. Almost anyone can see how the US has weakened itself with unneeded wars and wasteful ways of living.
2. We don't know of any evidence as well. Most likely she is a white pretender, or perhaps has very distant ancestry. By her own account on her sites, she has had little contact with her alleged people. No way would they entrust someone so unknowing with an (allegedly) important message.
3. This so called Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is nothing of the sort. It's a fraudulent organization, run by and for frauds. This is them:
http://www.earthworksforhumanity.org/pages/ROTA.shtml
It's Adam DeArmon AKA "Adam Yellowbird's" organization. He's an exploiter and white imposter selling phony ceremonies out of Sedona. We hav threads on him in here. If Krowther thinks he or the others in that group are genuine, then she is very easily fooled.
A young man contacted me some time ago because DeArmon was offering free trips to any elderly Native in his coimmunity in Alaska who would go. He signed his grandpa up because he thought it'd be a chance for him to travel, then backed away once I explained it al to him. Basically DeArmon is using elderly Natives as window dressing. They're not elders at all.
4. That story is bizarre. Among many Native peoples, owl is an omen of bad luck. One attacking you while dying is not something to brag about.
5. She really knows how to tell stories that are emotional and appeal to lost people. That certainly doesn't make her genuine. How you feel about her is not a reliable guide. How do Natives feel about her? We are pretty certain she's as phony as a 3 dollar bill.
6. That's a really strange thing to say. Natives don't go about dressed in regalia every day, anymore than Swedes wear Viking helmets or Germans wear lederhosen. The fact that she felt the need to dress up in regalia just says pretty clearly that she realized, without buckskin, no Europeans would believe she was Indian.
7. That's an important point. Who the heck is behind her? She's frankly not smart enough and doesn't have enough resources to get all these websites and speaking tours up and running this fast. She's only been around a very short time and has easily 100 times more websites devoted to her than a typical imposter. Someone is investing a lot of money and time on her.
Could you ask on that site: who sponsors her? Who builds her sites, and esp who pays for all these sites? And what their motives are. Crowther may be a pawn or puppet.
8. No, it's not Hopi, not even Mayan. The 2012 bit is New Age plus some others out ot make money.
9. It's a nice enough and harmless message, but does anyone really need Crowther to figure that out? It's something we all learned in kindergarten, or from our parents. Be good to each other.
10. Again, she may be a pawn. And that look in her eye is pure craziness, to me. I'm amazed anyone does anything but think, upon meeting her, "She needs professional help."
She is already debunked. The main thing missing is knowing who is behind her, paying quite a bit to promote her. DeArmon? Others?
11. Thanks for the kind words.
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1. That kind of "prophecy" is not exactly insightful. Almost anyone can see how the US has weakened itself with unneeded wars and wasteful ways of living.
2. We don't know of any evidence as well. Most likely she is a white pretender, or perhaps has very distant ancestry. By her own account on her sites, she has had little contact with her alleged people. No way would they entrust someone so unknowing with an (allegedly) important message.
3. This so called Continental Council of Indigenous Elders is nothing of the sort. It's a fraudulent organization, run by and for frauds. This is them:
http://www.earthworksforhumanity.org/pages/ROTA.shtml
It's Adam DeArmon AKA "Adam Yellowbird's" organization. He's an exploiter and white imposter selling phony ceremonies out of Sedona. We hav threads on him in here. If Krowther thinks he or the others in that group are genuine, then she is very easily fooled.
A young man contacted me some time ago because DeArmon was offering free trips to any elderly Native in his coimmunity in Alaska who would go. He signed his grandpa up because he thought it'd be a chance for him to travel, then backed away once I explained it al to him. Basically DeArmon is using elderly Natives as window dressing. They're not elders at all.
4. That story is bizarre. Among many Native peoples, owl is an omen of bad luck. One attacking you while dying is not something to brag about.
5. She really knows how to tell stories that are emotional and appeal to lost people. That certainly doesn't make her genuine. How you feel about her is not a reliable guide. How do Natives feel about her? We are pretty certain she's as phony as a 3 dollar bill.
6. That's a really strange thing to say. Natives don't go about dressed in regalia every day, anymore than Swedes wear Viking helmets or Germans wear lederhosen. The fact that she felt the need to dress up in regalia just says pretty clearly that she realized, without buckskin, no Europeans would believe she was Indian.
7. That's an important point. Who the heck is behind her? She's frankly not smart enough and doesn't have enough resources to get all these websites and speaking tours up and running this fast. She's only been around a very short time and has easily 100 times more websites devoted to her than a typical imposter. Someone is investing a lot of money and time on her.
Could you ask on that site: who sponsors her? Who builds her sites, and esp who pays for all these sites? And what their motives are. Crowther may be a pawn or puppet.
8. No, it's not Hopi, not even Mayan. The 2012 bit is New Age plus some others out ot make money.
9. It's a nice enough and harmless message, but does anyone really need Crowther to figure that out? It's something we all learned in kindergarten, or from our parents. Be good to each other.
10. Again, she may be a pawn. And that look in her eye is pure craziness, to me. I'm amazed anyone does anything but think, upon meeting her, "She needs professional help."
She is already debunked. The main thing missing is knowing who is behind her, paying quite a bit to promote her. DeArmon? Others?
11. Thanks for the kind words.
1: Indeed... i never really paid a lot of attention to this, it's just something i wanted to set straight so the image of Kiesha Crowther as it is portrayed here is as accurate as possible.
2: Yes, you are right. I just didn't think anyone would have the guts to falsely act as a spokesperson for Native American tribes.
3: Yeah, nobody on the tribeofmanycolors.net forums is able to shed a light on this as well. This is the only reply that was made (though also i got a message from someone who is also reading newagefraud.org):
I don't know much about the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders. My guess is that it is hard to find because the members are not supposed to be widely known or do not want to be widely known. The Council may do its work more internally, if that is the case, for good reasons. And maybe some people are designated as spokespeople, like Little Grandmother.
If they're not supposed to be widely known, why is their name used to add a sense of credibility to Kiesha Crowther?
4: Seriously? :-\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZcR2_f3bWM&feature=related here she talks about this great horned owl at 05:50. That's very strange to hear...
5: Yes you're right, but like i said, i didn't think anyone would have the guts to lie about being recognized by a native American tribe, and be able to get away with it. I did a search for her when i found her videos but i couldn't find anyone debunking her claims at the time.
6: Indeed, like i said i didn't really know anything about Native American tribes, one thing i knew was that they wear normal every day clothing like everyone else, but these videos of Kiesha Crowther give unknowing outsiders the impression that it's some kind of genuine gathering hosted by a Native American tribe. I did not expect to see someone in full regalia, the thought didn't even cross my mind, but when Kiesha said "i could very much be sitting here in full regalia" and clearly believes it herself, it adds to the impression that she is actually recognized by some established council.
7: I have never heard Kiesha talk about Adam Yellowbird. There's these two people sitting next to her in one of her talks though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVj6b7jC-I at 06:00, there is someone called Priscilla Wolf aka Sister Wolf. And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAMtZ-O6sgo&feature=related at 01:30, there's this man called John Kimmey. Other than that, i don't know if anyone is behind her, or who that would be. What i meant in my first message, is that i got the impression that her followers are pressing her to act as a guru... i mean, i've never seen an indication that there's some puppet master behind all this. But i don't know who is promoting and arranging her talks and workshops.
8: I see that now. Found this link about Hopi 'prophecies' if anyone reading this is also interested in that: http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Hopi_and_Pseudo_Hopi_Prophecies
9: It's the way this whole message is presented. To people who are not aware of all the impostors and frauds in new-age groups, and/or who are interested in topics discussed in new age/conspiracy theorist movements, it can give the impression that this is for real and that something grand is going on. It felt good to me, and her videos did inspire me to change things in my life for the better. I've quit smoking, stopped eating cheap factory meat, and i spend more time outdoors now... so it's not all bad. Some people just need something to believe in. When i look at all the frauds mentioned in these forums like this White Eagle Medicine Woman, i do think Kiesha Crowther is a somewhat different case... if all her claims about being recognized by Native American people are false, she is very much misguided. Of course, in that case, she is responsible for letting this happen to her. But i do think there is a grain of truth in the things she talks about, albeit mostly derived from other sources.
10: I didn't recognize the look in her eyes as crazy, while i am familiar with people who have mental illnesses.
11: No problem and by the way, if you need more information from me, just ask... :)
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7: I have never heard Kiesha talk about Adam Yellowbird. There's these two people sitting next to her in one of her talks though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjVj6b7jC-I at 06:00, there is someone called Priscilla Wolf aka Sister Wolf. And http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAMtZ-O6sgo&feature=related at 01:30, there's this man called John Kimmey. Other than that, i don't know if anyone is behind her, or who that would be. What i meant in my first message, is that i got the impression that her followers are pressing her to act as a guru... i mean, i've never seen an indication that there's some puppet master behind all this. But i don't know who is promoting and arranging her talks and workshops.
A search for Priscilla Wolf turns her up at some UFO sites. She says she is Apache/Spanish. Comes across as an eccentric grandmother. I doubt she has the resources.
Now John Kimney OTH, he's an established and dedicated fraud and exploiter of Hopi traditions and ceremony seller, even been warned repeatedly by the Hopi Nation.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
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People over here ask me the same thing: who is behind her?
Someone planned this and set the PR-machine rolling.
I wonder if I can find out who promoted her. She must have "an agent".
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People over here ask me the same thing: who is behind her?
Someone planned this and set the PR-machine rolling.
I wonder if I can find out who promoted her. She must have "an agent".
possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?
http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html
The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.
Currently these are the specific activities:
Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing
So I searched for Lady Rowena and google turned up this
http://www.pathofthemiddleway.org/1/Spiritual%20Hierarchy/Page%205/bladzij%205.htm
So Lady Rowena is a Chohan of the Third Ray. Or something.
Her incredible superhuman powers do not extend to web design it would appear.
Also another webpage here - this one a little bit less painful on the eyes
http://www.onhi.org/onhi_ascended_ladyrowena.html
this site suggests that Lady Rowena and her chums (the site promotes various ascended masters) are in fact American
It is interesting that the initial knowledge of these Ascended Masters emerged in the U.S.A. and that the first direct group externalization of them has also appeared in that same country. This is certainly not a co-incidence, and it appears the U.S.A. is the epicenter of their activities on behalf of human freedom from the darkened energetic structure of distorted light. In distortion fields, the higher truth is fragmented and broken down until the truth becomes difficult and too compartmentalized to understand, creating confusion in souls and a darkening of the original light. blah blah blah
http://www.onhi.org/onhi_ascended.html
I confess that I can only spend so long looking at sites like this before the noxious newage fumes that emanate from the screen make me want to do very bad things, so I will have to leave this one for a little while before I can bear to look again..
From a brief perusal all I can say is that this looks like a rather nasty, well established con for relieving vulnerable people of their worldly goods, but then this will not be a big surprise to anyone here.
I will need to study it for a bit longer in order to confirm my initial feelings, I just don't have the stomach for it right now. Anyone else please feel free to check it out of course.
Also the http://www.SternenCard.ch site linked to by the crystalsun website appears to a a site selling really horrible newage greeting cars, including one of Lady Rowena here
http://www.sternencard.ch/create.php?card_id=527
also linked to this site
http://www.cosmic-heart.ne
that offers counselling by someone called Veetkam W. Rentsch who "is especially experienced in dealing with trauma and its sequelae (post traumatic stress) and very successful in solving this difficult burden."
http://www.cosmic-heart.net/start/seminarien/trainings/einzelberatungen
The site also sells various spray products for cleansing auras and that kind of thing
http://www.cosmic-heart.net/start/produkte/produkte-2
Just found Veetkam W. Rentsch's facebook page
http://www.facebook.com/veetkamr?ref=search
His "likes" are interesting, lots of different native and pretendian, newage pages but also a page called True Tantra - Weaving Tantric Sex and Spirituality and also various pages advocating Osho
I confess that I always feel alarm when someone who claims to be a counsellor or psychotherapist is also interested in pseudo-tantra and Osho for obvious reasons
also links to this retreat / resort in Bali
http://www.gaia-oasis.com/gaia_de.html
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"Kiesha Crowther, also known as “Little Grandmother”, was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother’s tribe (Sioux/Salish), and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper for North America. "
For ALL of North America? Impressing!
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whois results for the various websites promoting Lady Rowena
Domain ID:D104157876-LROR
Domain Name:ONHI.ORG
Created On:27-Mar-2004 17:06:25 UTC
Last Updated On:22-Oct-2008 22:19:41 UTC
Expiration Date:27-Mar-2014 17:06:25 UTC
Sponsoring Registrar:eNom, Inc. (R39-LROR)
Status:CLIENT TRANSFER PROHIBITED
Registrant ID:abfd5d28f76
Registrant Name:Mark Kochkodan
Registrant Organization:One World Heart Institute
Registrant Street1:4613 N. University Drive
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Coral Springs
Registrant State/Province:FL
Registrant Postal Code:33067
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone: [deleted]
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:
Admin ID:abfd5d28f76
Admin Name:Mark Kochkodan
Admin Organization:One World Heart Institute
Admin Street1:[deleted]
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Coral Springs
Admin State/Province:FL
Admin Postal Code:33067
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:[deleted]
Admin Phone Ext.:
Admin FAX:
Admin FAX Ext.:
Admin Email:
Tech ID:9A63CD55545EA035
Tech Name:WestHost Hostmaster
Tech Organization:WestHost Inc.
Tech Street1:164 N Spring Creek Pkwy
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Providence
Tech State/Province:UT
Tech Postal Code:84332
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.14357553433
Tech Phone Ext.:
Tech FAX:
Tech FAX Ext.:
Tech Email:
Name Server:NS1.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
Name Server:NS2.WEST-DATACENTER.NET
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned
this page is also connected
http://sanctuarysupport.blogspot.com/2009/07/new-rose-light-sanctuary-ireland_12.html
so they are in Ireland also.
They look as though they are quite a large network. I would advise extreme caution and the use of proxy servers while checking out their various websites.
from the Latest News page
The One World Heart Institute website provides Transform- ational Planetary News on the ever-expanding Aquarian spi- rituality free of charge from Avatara Emanuella, and the Aquarian Ascended Masters in manifestation in the plane of matter. Your donations are vitally needed to assist us in bringing forth this spiritual awareness to humanity, and in our continuing efforts to expand this new transform- ational planetary awakening. Our heart’s hope is to someday have our own Holistic Ascen- sion Center for spiritual heal- ing and enlightened education for all. Every dollar counts!!!
http://www.onhi.org/onhi_rose_flame.html
verah spirchul!
interesting photo gallery ostensibly of ascended masters here
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/1/med/ascended1.htm
[phone and address deleted for privacy request]
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They seem to be referring to Rowena of the King Arthur stories. To her she's one of their ascended types in their mishmash of Buddhism and beliefs about angels.
Mark Kockkodan of One World Heart Institute is listed as a masseuse in Coral Galbes FL.
http://www.onhi.org/onhi_avatar_tribute2.html
Mark Kochkodan is a life extension of the Ascended Master Lord Lanto....
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/mark-kochkodan-P5547044.aspx
Mark Kochkodan
(view profile)
Related People:
Jannine Leist
Linda Mescher
Related Companies:
One World Heart Institute, Inc.
Possible Related Companies:
Heartnet, Inc.
One World Heart Institute Inc
http://www.corporationwiki.com/Florida/Coral-Springs/one-world-heart-institute-inc-2214041.aspx
Incorporated by Jannine Leist, Linda Mescher, Mark Kochkodan, One World Heart Institute, Inc. is located at 4613 N University Dr # 469 Pompano Beach, FL 33067. One World Heart Institute, Inc. was incorporated on Thursday, May 27, 2004 in the State of FL and is currently active. Linda Mescher represents One World Heart Institute, Inc. as their registered agent.
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They seem to be referring to Rowena of the King Arthur stories. To her she's one of their ascended types in their mishmash of Buddhism and beliefs about angels.
I did wonder about who Lady Rowena was as there are loads of videos on youtube about ascended masters, many featuring Lady Rowina. Some of them may be linked to this network, some may be some other nuage thing. It may be that it's a bit like the whole Lightworkers and Indigo Children thing, concepts that are used by all kinds of nuage groups.
However I did notice a rather comical photo gallery, Lady Rowenas Spiritual Reunion here:
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/4/med/Lady_Rowenas_Spiritual_Reunion_002__21_.htm
This photo of some of the people who pop up in the various galleries on these sites is interesting to me as it shows how much they like dressing up, almost fancy dress.
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/4/lg/Lady_Rowenas_Spiritual_Reunion_002__15_.htm
This photo is similar, they all look very odd indeed
http://www.onhi.org/onhi-photo-gallery/1/med/ascended12.htm
another website linked to this network is here
http://www.akashaonline.com/index.php
also here
http://www.theiamfamilyoflight.com/
facebook page here
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ascended-Masters-Gifts/339530624234?ref=sgm
The more I look at this the more I think that this is quite a large network operating internationally
The “I AM” are two deeply significant words that speak of our eternal consciousness.
Christarose Vallucha Freeborough
Event founder and producer
another individual involved in this
http://www.facebook.com/edwin.courtenay
the link is here
http://www.paradigmshiftmagazine.com/html/issue_29.html
issue 20 of paradigm shift magazine
The I Am Family of Light - Christarose Freeborough, Edwin Courtenay, Akasha-Rose Emmanuel
also this
"The I AM FAMILY of LIGHT"
England - October 27th & 28th
AMAZINGLY UPLIFTING and POWERFUL!
Without a doubt, The I AM Family of Light® gathering is a unique two day event on the international calendar offering people the opportunity to come together within a safe, sacred space so that they may open their hearts and allow themselves to be transformed as they come into an ever deepening recognition of the Eternal Light, Love and Divine Wisdom within. The Gathering of the Crystal Cups of Light programme will feature incredible messages of divine wisdom and guidance from the Lord Melchizedek through Edwin Courtenay (UK) , The Queen of Light and Venus Kumara through Akasha-Rose Emmanuel (Australia) , Akasha and Asun through Craig Russel (Canada) and the Star Elders through Aluna Joy (SEDONA) – all leading luminaries and Messengers of the Light. In addition you will hear uplifting music and songs of inspiration from gifted singers and songwriters including Denise Hagan (Ireland) , Omashar (Hawaii) , Paul Armitage (Canada) and Melanie Gerard (UK) , and for an added touch of joy you will see the Goddess in dance by Solariss (UK). All extremely exciting. Needless to say, because of this year's wonderful programme there is much interest so I would suggest booking early to secure a seat and benefit from the early bird discount (paid by 30th April). This is a conference style weekend format and the venue is once again the peaceful Ramada Hotel in Maidstone, Kent now undergoing major refurbishments in good time for October. Space is limited. So sign up early for the gathering.
Say ALUNA JOY sent you, and we will send you a free bottle of I AM Blessing Water Essence. Sign up here: http://www.theiamfamilyoflight.com/welcome.htm
Read more: http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=13228926&blogId=274495314#ixzz11tEqkgEi
source:
http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendId=13228926&blogId=274495314
Please note the emphasis on "I AM" on these websites and also on Kiesha Crowther's site
Blah, blah, blah, Her powerful message emphasizes how to shift individual and planetary consciousness, how to live in the heart in right relationship with Mother Earth, and to remember who we are--THE GREAT I AM.
http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx
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Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com
http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx
We are the Rainbow Tribe here to change our planet through truth, love, joy, healing, forgiveness, kindness, and compassion. Our future is seeded in the coming months with the choices we make NOW.
We must stop the insanity of drilling for oil in the ocean depths, dumping pesticides into rivers which flow to the oceans, polluting our air, our food, slaughtering animals without compassion and killing each other in senseless wars. If we do not change and make the shift in values by realizing that without Mother Earth we would not be here, then our planet will bring about her own cleansing , balance and order once again. There is the possibility that many people could leave the planet within a few short hours. So what is your responsibility? To honor and love yourself and love earth, the animals, the plant life, and all people--for we are all connected. Can you imagine oil drillers giving thanks and prayers before drilling for Mother Earth's precious blood--oil? What a difference life would be if we lived in harmony with our wondrous planet.
My non-fiction book, ANGELS, ALIENS & PROPHECY, will be available May 2011. The book covers ancient aliens and the evidence that angels and aliens are linked and the prophectic messages they keep telling abductees. Also, I cover what may have been my own UFO abductions through the years as well as my parents UFO encounter on a lonely road in northwestern Idaho late at night in the 1950s. In 1985, renowned author & MUFON Investigator, Ann Druffel, hypnotized my mom and me, regressing us to that frightening night in northwestern Idaho. What we revealed under hypnosis was mind-boggling.
Enjoy the website and the various information I've posted. Be sure to check out my Calendar of Events page for current live and archived Rainbow Visions Shows with some very special guests.
Sending Love and Light to all,
Betsey Lewis
Talk Radio Host , Author, Psychic & Ghostwriter/Editor
http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx
also
http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis
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possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?
http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html
The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.
Currently these are the specific activities:
Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing
This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.
Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com
http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx
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http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx
also
http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis
This woman has conducted some interviews with Kiesha Crowther through her blogtalkradio.com station. She appears to be very much into new-age stuff and prone to believe a lot. Again, to me it seems like she believes everything Kiesha Crowther says and felt the need to promote her for free.
Kiesha Crowther's videos are often posted on 'alternative news' websites and Facebook. To me it appears like 9 out of 10 people who know about her, found her videos on Youtube or found a link to those videos on such a website. I have never seen advertisements or anything in my country. I don't know about this John Kimmey but i think almost all people who are involved in organizing her events and promotion believe they're on a spiritual mission and contribute for free.
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possibly this allegedly Zurich based organisation?
http://www.crystalsun.ch/en/crystalsun/crystalsun.html
The association aims to promote the CrystalSun practically lived spirituality and the organization and implementation of appropriate events and activities. It is politically, religiously and economically completely independent.
Currently these are the specific activities:
Support and promote the work of Crowther Kiesha - Little Grand Mother
Organizing and conducting seminars with Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother
Support and promote the work and messages of the Ascended Master Lady Rowena
Sponsorship and organization of the WEB SITE http://TribeofManyColors.net (Tribe of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grand Mother) and all activities of this Tribe site - such as text translations
Sponsorship and support of the WEB SITE http://www.SternenCard.ch (an online e-card service, and awareness support to the delight of opening)
Building an online store for media and articles that serve the purpose of the association
Development of the Media - Publishing
This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.
Thanks for the clarification Crescent.
It sounds as though you know this man personally, is that right?
If your impression of him is right may also be exploited by the newage people on the other very bizarre websites that he created regarding "ascended masters"
Whois suggests that his name is Veetkam W. Rentsch
There is a page about him here on a website devoted to followers of Osho
http://www.sannyas.org/index.php?title=Sw_Dhyan_Veetkam
He appears to be the same person who is an Osho influenced therapist mentioned earlier in this thread.
IMO it is entirely possible that someone who was taken in by the whole Osho thing could also be vulnerable to being exploited by others.
Many of the original orange people were worked like slaves, in fact they were effectively enslaved, at the Big Muddy site in Oregon. Cults have a long and ignoble tradition of exploiting member as slaves or just as unpaid labour. There can be a thin line between voluntary work for the good of the community and enslavement.
I do wonder whether the Keisha Crowther and Ascended Masters people have some connection other than that this man does web design and promotional work for both. Both are quite upfront and cheeky about soliciting donations, but that is hardly a surprising thing in the newage world. I will give this some further thought.
Also Crowther's website was created and designed by Betsey Lewis of RNBMediaGroup.com
http://rnbmediagroup.com/aboutus.aspx
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http://betseylewis.com/default.aspx
also
http://www.facebook.com/betseyjlewis
This woman has conducted some interviews with Kiesha Crowther through her blogtalkradio.com station. She appears to be very much into new-age stuff and prone to believe a lot. Again, to me it seems like she believes everything Kiesha Crowther says and felt the need to promote her for free.
Kiesha Crowther's videos are often posted on alternative news websites and the like. For example the conspiracy/new-age/pseudoscience news website www.niburu.nl has posted her videos a couple times. To me it appears like 9 out of 10 people who know about her, found her videos on Youtube or found a link to those videos on such a website. I have never seen advertisements or anything in my country. I don't know about this John Kimmey but i think almost all people who are involved in organizing her events and promotion believe they're on a spiritual mission and contribute for free.
If this is so, and it sounds credible to me, then it still begs the question of whether she has created this alone by exploiting others or whether she is backed by some other organisation or individual.
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Kiesha Crowther has spoken in her own videos about how the "elders of the Salish" tribe, are the ones who made her "shaman over the Salish tribe". Those are her words, not mine. No one in the Flathead knows of this woman. I have spent some time asking and I even got a few laughs. She has also laid claim to Sioux, as so many white new age peddlers do. I recorded the youtube video's on my little camera and took copies to some of the elders here, and they watched them and were disgusted, truly. So here's my advice to anyone looking to verify her claims to Salish and Sioux, call the tribal office and ask them about her and her mother. We can't even verify the mother, as she has not given a name so that anyone can trace her lineage.
So if no one Salish up here knows who Kiesha Crowther, "shaman over the Salish tribe", then tell me who is Kiesha? She is a con artist, like so many others who have come before her. For example, the white woman Lynn Andrews who has written multiple books laying claim to teachings from women who don't exist, then charging grandiose amounts of money to take women to Joshua Tree and teach them shamanism. Kiesha has probably seen how well a white woman can do for herself if she can convince people that she's been annointed by someone important.
Kiesha seems to have alot of people in other countries fooled. Read through the youtube commentary, which is mostly made up by those living outside of the U.S. Most new age peddlers and pretenders like to don their regalia and tour foreign countries playing ndn, because the people are so starved for their indian experience they will pay precious money to get it. This whole thing has sickened me. You cannot stop a con artist in another country, where she has paying fools that believe in her.
So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way.
She's charging people for these "spiritual teachings" that she has read every where else on the internet or in books. Read a Lynn Andrews book. She copies the woman's style. I would not be surprised at all to find that Kiesha was a student of Lynn Andrews. You can google Lynn and see what exorbitant amounts of money she charges to teach women how to be a white pretender. It's sad. You can't make someone ndn. You cannot steal from the culture and lie, and twist it to fit what you want to teach others.
Kiesha has literally stolen her titles, and has fabricated her story about becoming shaman over the Salish tribe.
I say the woman is in need of prayers. Any woman who would desert her childen to come into the world to live a lie is not waking in truth and must have some serious problems going on. She's lost touch with who she is, and has clung to a lie to feel better in her life.
I have no desire to bash her but I will stand up and say that stealing from the Salish and claiming to be made a shaman is dead wrong, and she will have to account for those lies eventually. What will Kiesha do should the elders show up to one of the seminars she charges for to ask her of her claims?
I see that Kiesha has closed off her facebook from the public eye and now you must friend her in order to read there. She probably feels closed in on, as I am certain she has read this forum and knows that people are catching on to her.
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So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way....
I say the woman is in need of prayers. Any woman who would desert her childen to come into the world to live a lie is not waking in truth and must have some serious problems going on. She's lost touch with who she is, and has clung to a lie to feel better in her life....
This to me seems a clear sign of mental illness, of needing professional mental health help. It's like a person claiming to be Napoleon and going off to convince the world he's their emperor, leaving their family behind.
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This to me seems a clear sign of mental illness, of needing professional mental health help. It's like a person claiming to be Napoleon and going off to convince the world he's their emperor, leaving their family behind.
The really sad thing is that thousands of people actually believe this fantasy.
I think it it probably true that sometimes people become cult leaders because large groups of people want them to be cult leaders and that the psychopathy of the leader neatly pigeon-holes into the needs of the masses.
While it is useful to be curious about Crowther and to seek answers as to how she got where she is, it is equally important to wonder about the motives of the many people who idealise her.
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Well, I tend to think it's that the world is in such a sad shape that people are literally clawing to find something that is better.. I think people flock to ndn's because it is perceived they have better moral standards in how to treat other human beings along with having a better connection to Earth and Spirit. People think this.. and so want it because honestly.. today's world is so brutal and cold, intolerant and hateful. I think this is also the basis for the New Age... however, all those 'new age' philosophies are just mind food, meaning, there is no foundation underneath .. and if you ever have the opportunity to have a conflict with a new ager.. they just turn on you.. so.. so much for their 'new age' mind set that isn't real..
but this is off topic... sorry.. just replying to nemesis
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I am passing on the information and it is finding its way to organisers over here, booking Kiesha.
But the sad thing - pretty much like Nemesis says - is that people do not care!!
No matter how much evidence you give them for this woman being a fraud, they continue to worship her.
I try to explain the harm it does to genuine Ndn communities, giving people here some kind of fantasyimage of Native Americans.
Noone cares....
The bottom line is: this kind of movement attracts people who want to satisfy their own needs of being special, the chosen ones. No matter if it is on behalf of other people OR if it is all based on lies. There have been numerous mentally disturbed leaders around leading the masses over a cliff....
I am still curious of how Kiesha "rose to fame" this fast although I guess it´s just a matter of making some websites, promotionmaterial, and then contacting the fraudmagnetorganisations over here in Europe. I think it is pretty easy, actually....
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I think people flock to ndn's because it is perceived they have better moral standards in how to treat other human beings along with having a better connection to Earth and Spirit.
In Crowther's case, and in many we see on here, the non-NDN seekers have ridiculous fantasies about NDNs based on newage books and hollywood stereotypes. If they even attempt to interact with real NDNs, they usually find they don't want the reality of whole, complex people, living in whole, complex communities... and even "worse", communities that have standards and protocols that conflict with their fantasies of being able to buy access to "teachings" and ceremonies. I think usually the non-NDN seekers are so racist they don't even try to meet real NDNs. I think they are overjoyed when an obviously white person comes along and claims to have the goods they want to buy. I think they willingly buy into the delusion that the white person is NDN because otherwise they would have to face their racism, their selfishness, their consumerism. But buying into the delusion gives them a way to avoid responsibility, accountability, and the harsh reality that if they tried to get these things from an actual, authorized NDN ceremonial leader, they would be told, "No."
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I agree wholly Kathryn and Freija.. it is a multi-layered problem.
I think Kiesha rose fast because she started on Youtube with free videos. And MANY of the needy-vulnerable who succumb to such fantasies cannot afford the high prices.. so anything they can find for free is going to be spread fast among many. Once it starts spreading fast.. someone else with profit in mind is going to pick it up and start making money.. so I am not surprised she is being now sought by those who put on these shows for a buck..
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This is the European man that also voluntarily made the tribeofmanycolors.net website after he found the videos. He's putting a lot of time into the website and he's probably paying for the website hosting + domain as well. I am very certain that he is not a conman, he really believes everything Kiesha Crowther says, and apparently felt the need to promote her message by making the tribeofmanycolors.net website.
Thanks for the clarification Crescent.
It sounds as though you know this man personally, is that right?
Nope, i've never met him in real life, but i had some email and forum conversations with him.
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So far, from what I understand, Kiesha used to live in Colorado. She was married and had two children. She left her husband and her babies to go off into the world and play white lady shaman. Let me make this clear, she abandoned those children. They no longer have their mother because she has told the people there in Co that "this is her mission and her calling". If that story of the owl is truth, then she should have seen that the owl was telling her to stay home and do not abandon her family this way.
I have to say that this is not the case, i recall Kiesha made a Facebook post a few months ago where she mentions her kids, here it is:
Kiesha Crowther I was on my way with my two children to a friends house to have dinner and we actually drove threw the image of the rainbow right in front of us on the highway.. Ive never saw anything like it before.. the kids were so excited that they couldn't even speak lol.. it was so beautiful.. mother nature sure is amazing isnt she?
01 August at 20:24
I do not know if she is living with her husband and children but apparently she has at least not abandoned her children.
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I am passing on the information and it is finding its way to organisers over here, booking Kiesha.
But the sad thing - pretty much like Nemesis says - is that people do not care!!
No matter how much evidence you give them for this woman being a fraud, they continue to worship her.
Very true... free speech is also not promoted at the forums on tribeofmanycolors.net. Several people have posted questions to Kiesha Crowther's claims including me and these topics got either deleted if they contained important facts, or locked if innocent questions had been asked. No one was able to provide proof of her claims by the way.
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In Crowther's case, and in many we see on here, the non-NDN seekers have ridiculous fantasies about NDNs based on newage books and hollywood stereotypes. If they even attempt to interact with real NDNs, they usually find they don't want the reality of whole, complex people, living in whole, complex communities... and even "worse", communities that have standards and protocols that conflict with their fantasies of being able to buy access to "teachings" and ceremonies. I think usually the non-NDN seekers are so racist they don't even try to meet real NDNs. I think they are overjoyed when an obviously white person comes along and claims to have the goods they want to buy. I think they willingly buy into the delusion that the white person is NDN because otherwise they would have to face their racism, their selfishness, their consumerism. But buying into the delusion gives them a way to avoid responsibility, accountability, and the harsh reality that if they tried to get these things from an actual, authorized NDN ceremonial leader, they would be told, "No."
Sorry but i think you're exaggerating here. I'm very much against racism and i had no such fantasies of NDNs living their every day lives like this. I just didn't know much about Native American spirituality and this seemed like some sort of authentic spiritual gathering. All this talk about how Kiesha Crowther was made shaman for the Sioux/Salish, names that i had heard before, made it sound convincing. The thought didn't occur to me that people would make these credentials up, and that they could get away with it and post these videos on Youtube without getting criticized (when i found her videos about half a year ago, i did a search on message boards like this one and i could find no one debunking her claims at the time). And as she said that she had a white father and a Salish mother, i just thought that she got more of her father's looks.
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Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all". If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)
I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.
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Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all". If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)
I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.
It's ok, i didn't think you were criticizing me personally, it's just that many of these people who are watching her videos are really nice people, often they have been through a lot and are looking for some way to make sense of it all. I think many of them got taken in by these claims of tribal recognition as well. Though of course many haven't looked for criticism, especially the ones that have 'joined the club' recently (as it's easy to find criticism now). But i don't understand how that makes them racist.
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Hi Crescent, I said that in my opinion "many" seekers have these racist fantasies. "Many", not "all". If it doesn't apply to you, please don't take it personally :-)
I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups. I am glad you saw through Crowther's lies and came here to find out more and also to help others know what's going on over there. Your information is very helpful and I intended no offense to you. I apologize if you thought I was criticizing you personally.
It's ok, i didn't think you were criticizing me personally, it's just that many of these people who are watching her videos are really nice people, often they have been through a lot and are looking for some way to make sense of it all. I think many of them got taken in by these claims of tribal recognition as well. Though of course many haven't looked for criticism, especially the ones that have 'joined the club' recently (as it's easy to find criticism now). But i don't understand how that makes them racist.
I suppose it depends on how you define racism doesn't it?
IMO racism is not restricted to people in pointy white hats who burn crosses in people's gardens or any of the more obvious forms of racism.
Some of the most destructive and hurtful types of racism are relatively subtle, unconscious and commonly held projections, endorsed by the dominating culture.
Just for example, the "noble savage" and the closely related "magical negro", stereotypes relate to both idealised and denigrated elements of the white collective unconscious that are commonly projected onto NDNs and Africans respectively.
One of the most hurtful aspects of these projections is that - possibly due to the idealised elements of the projections and also their unconscious nature - white people are usually oblivious to the racism inherent in them.
People often feel extremely defensive about this when challenged IME. This is possibly because, as well as all the other things it can be, racism is often considered to be the worst thing that a person can be accused of.
Just sharing some thoughts.
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Well said, Nemesis!
Unless we acknowledge the racist views/stereotypes we base our perceptions on, we can not take the first step to change them.
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IMO racism is not restricted to people in pointy white hats who burn crosses in people's gardens or any of the more obvious forms of racism.
Some of the most destructive and hurtful types of racism are relatively subtle, unconscious and commonly held projections, endorsed by the dominating culture.
Just for example, the "noble savage" and the closely related "magical negro", stereotypes relate to both idealised and denigrated elements of the white collective unconscious that are commonly projected onto NDNs and Africans respectively.
One of the most hurtful aspects of these projections is that - possibly due to the idealised elements of the projections and also their unconscious nature - white people are usually oblivious to the racism inherent in them.
People often feel extremely defensive about this when challenged IME. This is possibly because, as well as all the other things it can be, racism is often considered to be the worst thing that a person can be accused of.
In my opinion as well. This is the type of racism I was referring to: more subtle, usually unconscious, but far more prevalent than the obvious racism of the cross burners. Thank you for articulating it, Nemesis.
Per usual, linkage: "The Do's and Don'ts of Being a Good Ally"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0
and: "For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1048.0
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I just wanted to share an embarrassing fact about myself.
When I was a teenager I genuinely believed that Asian people who wore gowns and turbans were deeply spiritual and had access to all kinds of mysterious and arcane knowledge.
I grew up in a boring suburban town where most people were preoccupied with making money during the week and getting drunk at weekends. I desperately wanted something "more" and felt that it must exist somewhere "other" than the place I knew as home. Asian people were "other" and seemed mysterious to me and so were a perfect repository for my fantasies.
I was not a "bad" person as a teen. I was not conscious of any racism towards Asian people, and yet I possessed a cherished fantasy of Asians generally and ancient Egyptians in particular as being wise, mysterious and spiritual.
This fantasy ended up getting me into some troubling situations, one of which was a very rude awakening indeed.
In retrospect my fantasy was racist, not in a cross burning way, but in a way where an actual human being or group of human beings were perceived by me as objects in my internal fantasy world, not as real people.
I do think that these kinds of projections are part of the human condition. I do not think that is especially helpful to beat ourselves up about them, but it is important to acknowledge them and to be willing to explore our feelings in the respect. To deny this tendency in ourselves and to resist exploring our unconscious fantasies in this way is to condemn the people on the receiving end to much hurt and pain and even mental illness as their traumatic experiences of racism are dismissed as if they are unreal, and they are the ones with the distorted fantasies.
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Hmm, i understand what you mean now, thanks for the clarification. I've never seen the word 'racism' used in that way before, and still think it's not the most fitting, but i guess this is indeed a difference in how we personally define it, and how it is used in different countries. Yes, some of Kiesha Crowther's followers are very much like that and i probably had a bit of this fantasy image as well.
I've sent a message about her to this website, asking if they can give advice about the matter:
http://www.lakota.nl/english.html
Seems like a trustworthy resource.
Edit: I've just received this reply from them (translated):
"Thank you for the information. I've heard the name before, but didn't know that she's also coming to speak in our country. These videos look very suspicious. Unfortunately no people are involved in collecting evidence about this matter at the moment. There was a Cherokee woman in Belgium, but she's quit doing this because of all the negative responses. I also wouldn't know anyone from the Lakota who could take action. The communities aren't so small that everyone knows each other, so it's very possible that people there don't even know about her."
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There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct. Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.
While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value, it disregards many of the things that she does and claims that is considered most offensive and then goes a step further and claim that Hopi, Inuit and Cherokee elders (among other tribes) recognize her claims as well.
Don't have much time to comment further, but I can bet there will be people here that will have plenty to say.
Superdog
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well, since she tells people "as I always have asked, and do not judge without
educating yourself on what is really being said and done" Hopefully then, they will
all come here and read what is really being said..
as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.
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There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
First 10 seconds. ::)
This 'Urgent Message' response is not from the website owner, the first little part is written by Kiesha Crowther and the other part is made by an anonymous writer, i don't know who it is. I think this person also writes the other 'Urgent Messages'. It's not the website owner though, his style of writing is very unique, i would recognize it.
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While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value...
Yes, many will. I've just read it... to someone who wants to believe, it will probably sound 100% accurate and true.
Again, these elders and particular tribes are never named. Readers are advised to listen to what their heart tells them. An attempt is made to discredit NAFPS based on topics present about Adam Yellowbird and Drunvalo Melchizedek, which they apparently perceive as completely truthful people. Even the thread on the Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers is mentioned, even though it's in the 'research needed' forum. All the good work people here have done at exposing fake ceremony sellers and impostors, and all the credible websites, people and groups that cooperate with NAFPS or use it for information, are left out of the loop (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1235.0). Basically NAFPS is portrayed as one of the evils of the internet. It feels like a low blow to me. How convenient to mention this 'non-native shaman' story now... fact of the matter is; Kiesha's talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this "shaman for the Flathead reservation tribe of the Sioux and Salish" story, many many times. This is very misleading.
I don't know Yellowbird but i do have some of Melchizedek's books, i think he does have some credible & unique knowledge and theories but also lots of really wild and ridiculous fantasies (like teaching Thoth - the Egyptian god of the moon, magic, the calendar, literacy and wisdom - his personal meditation technique). Before calling himself Drunvalo Melchizedek he called himself Akbar... strange story. I'm pretty certain he's as human as anyone else and from my experience, his meditation technique is not really superior to basic relaxing and being still. I haven't read the thread about him yet, i'm curious as to what people here at NAFPS think about him. Anyway, back on topic.
[A little notice - skeptics may frown upon what i say now but i consider this a truth, and i'm posting this in hope that someone who is active on tribeofmanycolors.net will read this] I do believe Kiesha Crowther may indeed have a good intuition/certain abilities. For example she may very well have been speaking a language she otherwise couldn't speak. Fact of the matter is, during transpersonal regression therapy sessions, this stuff happens quite often. I can imagine that the trance-like state she must be in when receiving supposed messages from the other side must be very similar to, if not the same as, a regression trance. To me it isn't even that special anymore. This occurrence, if it really happened, is not supposed to be used as a yardstick for truth, and especially not to be used as proof of 'the good side'. It can originate from anywhere and from what i've learned so far with regression therapy, most of the time it occurs there, it isn't something good.
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as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.
Yes, i am now considered to be a bringer of low energy.
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I've sent a message through her site's contact form:
In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much
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Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
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I have to say that this is not the case, i recall Kiesha made a Facebook post a few months ago where she mentions her kids, here it is:
Kiesha Crowther I was on my way with my two children to a friends house to have dinner and we actually drove threw the image of the rainbow right in front of us on the highway.. Ive never saw anything like it before.. the kids were so excited that they couldn't even speak lol.. it was so beautiful.. mother nature sure is amazing isnt she?
01 August at 20:24
I do not know if she is living with her husband and children but apparently she has at least not abandoned her children.
I've bolded the part that struck me when I first read it. It is not possible to drive through the image of a rainbow. If you walk (or drive) towards a rainbow, the sun will be behind you and the rainbow will appear to move into the distance ahead of you. More info (from the Wikipedia entry on rainbows):
A rainbow does not actually exist at a particular location in the sky. Its apparent position depends on the observer's location and the position of the Sun. All raindrops refract and reflect the sunlight in the same way, but only the light from some raindrops reaches the observer's eye. This light is what constitutes the rainbow for that observer. The position of a rainbow in the sky is always in the opposite direction of the Sun with respect to the observer, and the interior is always slightly brighter than the exterior.
My post might be seen as nit-picking by some, but the "driving through the rainbow" story is one more strike against her credibility.
I've read this entire thread and I've looked at most of what is linked to. It sure looks like Crowther is being exploited. I hope her children are safe, wherever they are.
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I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."
I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.
"she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"
Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.
Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.
Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.
Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?
Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities
Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.
Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.
Zulu- again, millions of Zulu
The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.
I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:
Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.
Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.
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....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.
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I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."
I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.
"she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"
Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.
Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.
Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.
Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?
Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities
Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.
Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.
Zulu- again, millions of Zulu
The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.
I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:
Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.
Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.
Of course the above claims are far more serious and grandiose than tall tales about owls or rainbows. I want to make it clear that I in no way support any of her outrageous claims. I re-read my previous post - I did not mean to imply that she has much (if any) "credibility" to begin with - I was just pointing out yet one more item to the laundry list of her (what should be) obvious lies. I was aiming for irony and missed.... :P :-[
(Thanks, Superdog, for posting this link.)
There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct. Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.
Here is a quote from that website:
I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past.
How is this person able to identify the language Crowther is "receiving teachings" in? Does (s)he know this language? Is it recorded and then played back for someone to translate?
IMO it is worth pointing out all of the stuff that sounds suspect, whether it is big or small. Even if someone does not see through the bigger lies (whether through ignorance or for whatever other reason), pointing out some of the smaller lies and distortions might just jar them into thinking, "Hey, wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense - I wonder if any of the other stuff is BS?"
I am glad that Crowther's own supporters have made her followers aware of the NAFPS website. I hope some of them are curious enough to read what is posted here (in other threads, too). Reading Crescent's posts in this thread is very heartening (thanks, Crescent). Yes, it is possible to see the light of day after being fooled by a plastic-shaman type (been there myself - not for very long, though, thankfully ::) - one weekend workshop, over a decade ago, plus a few silly "shaman adventure" books that I've read over the years even when I should have known better). Reading the NAFPS forum played a big role in getting me to realize just how extremely silly a lot of this stuff is. I have also seen, first-hand, the harm it can do to people who buy into it (one person I know has been greatly harmed by it). By reading this forum, I have also become aware of the great harm the plastics do to the peoples and cultures whose ways they appropriate. I would like to encourage Crowther's followers (and Crowther herself, if she is reading this) to read and think about what is posted on the NAFPS website, even though it might make them uncomfortable at first. I guarantee that if you do so, and step back and let it sink in whenever you have to, you will learn a lot.
One way to slow down these plastics is to try to get through to those in their target market. I believe that there are at least a few good-hearted people who have been fooled in the past, are willing to admit it, and are willing to speak out against it.
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....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.
I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.
It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.
I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.
However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
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OK i've seen enough. She tries to get people behind her by making outrageous claims and when these claims are challenged, she makes even more outrageous claims or takes things completely out of context, like the Tibetan lama thing. Her followers must think these statements are far too big to be made up. Most of her stories are just in the slightest bit based on reality, she'd make a mountain out of a molehill (a magic and sacred mountain prophesied to pop up in a time of great turmoil). Been reading other topics, other forums like the Rick Ross board and blogs by critics within the New Age field and i can see that there are and have been many like her... the unique bit is that she's gotten so much publicity in such a short time, thanks to Youtube. I feel stupid for believing her fantasies, doing translation work and donating some money... well, another lesson learned.
It's a clear sign that she's got something to hide if she's backing away from these claims of tribal recognition. Look at the video i've linked to in my previous post. Just about all her talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this 'Sioux Salish shaman' story. I saved this video to my computer in case it gets deleted. Here's another video where she says the same kind of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc&feature=related (at 07:28).
"May you listen for the truth from your deepest hearts", what a load of bullshit. These claims can only ever be substantiated by identifying the 'Sioux Salish' who supposedly recognized her at the age of 8, and by asking those who initiated her as a shaman at the age of 30 to step forward. For people who are now thinking "The message is what counts, not the messenger" or something like that: The messenger has to be truthful. You can expect the message to be highly distorted if she's making stories up about her background, especially if she gets her information through channeling (apparently). And if the messenger doesn't count, she could charge half of what she charges now for her talks and still be able to cover her costs and support herself.
To the people who consider themselves a member of the 'Tribe of Many Colors': according to the FAQ on Kiesha's websites, her free videos are what it's all about and her talks or workshops are just a little extra for the people who want to meet her in person. I think it's wise to follow this advice that she herself has given. She's actually telling people to shut down their minds in her workshops. Sure, not thinking so much can be good for some time, just to relax. Meditation can be great. But it seems that this is not what she is talking about. Consider everything people have said in this topic and other sites that contain criticism; are you really sure it's safe to entrust the integrity of your mind to her? She may have good intentions, but i think she's on the wrong track. Her 'tribe' is starting to get a lot of cult-like tendencies. I've read two testimonies written by people who have been to her workshops. One saw the trees moving in the wind and interpreted this as some great majestic sign. The other one thinks 'left brain analytical doubts' and academic thinking is something bad that has to be overpowered. This whole tribe stuff couldn't exist without left brain activity... Internet, computers, camcorders? Anyone?
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Please don't feel bad crescent.
I think that you are very brave to be able to examine your own heart and feelings and to be able to realise that you were tricked.
Many good people are tricked by people like Crowther and I actually think that your courage in being truthful with yourself and writing about it here is probably very validating and thus healing for the native people who Crowther exploits by selling ceremony.
There is an old saying that goes something like "If today you realise that you are not as clever a person as you thought you were yesterday, you are a cleverer person today".
Please take some goodness from this experience as I think you are a better and wiser person for it.
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I'm seconding nemesis here, Crescent. Many of us got into this work because we were fooled, lied to, exploited. Or we saw loved ones harmed. Welcome to the team :-)
If the frauds, con artists and exploiters weren't skilled at what they do, they wouldn't have any followers. You weren't stupid, you were being open-hearted and trusting; you were being vulnerable. Vulnerability is a beautiful thing when we open up to those who have earned our trust, and they open up to us as well. Humans need that deep trust and intimacy in our lives. But frauds, con artists and predators exploit that vulnerability. They push people to trust them when trust has not been earned. They give the impression that they are also being vulnerable, but they are seducing people with lies and exploiting their desire to be emotionally intimate and spiritually bonded. The fault is not yours, it's Crowther's and those who make excuses for her.
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Crescent, you´ve done a great thing coming in here and clearing things up. And don´t feel stupid. Just like Kathryn says - these guys are extremely clever at what they do!
I was also fooled many years ago. It was just my gutfeeling preventing me from participating in the faked ceremonies. However, I promoted a New Age group and their faked leader, who told us he was half Lakota, half Cherokee and sometimes half Navajo. (There were many halves in that guy!!). I even donated money. But rather then burying myself in a big hole when I realized what I had done (and yes, I was so deeply ashamed and embarassed afterwards!) I decided to spend time with Native communities and do whatever it took to fight against the cultural and spiritual exploitation.
So - nothing bad that doesn´t bring something good (which is a saying in my country :D )
Welcome to the club, Crescent!
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I actually liked Kiesha's message too. Never donated or joined ceremonies tho, since I don't think that spirituality is about money... Anyway, there is lots of good in her talks and lots with what I don't agree at all... But for me the thing I dislike the most is the fact that she doesn't seem to work as her true self. It is unethical to back up the message with claims of "recognitions" if there are none and to pretend to be indigenous and use "indigenous" teachings to get into the business... blah. As I wrote into my introduction in new member section, I am very interested in authentic cultures and all kinds of stuff and never really thought before how wrong it is to make false claims... i do now. In a way I'd hope that people would ditch most of the Kiesha's message and keep the good parts (not the "shutting the mind" part) and don't get deeper in the tribe stuff. It has kind of nice community feeling tho, but if the whole thing has started from a lie and someone is gathering her own "tribe" together... It has a bit too cultish feeling around it...
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Thanks for the heads up, i have indeed learned from this and it feels good now to warn others about her behavior. I've gotten some positive messages as well from other people who have also been reading newagefraud.org, they think the same way about this whole situation.
Yeah, not everything she says is made up. I think she wouldn't ever have gotten so far into this if she wouldn't have any intuition or other sensitivities, or experienced strange events. But some group, which John Kimmey (warned repeatedly by the Hopi nation for falsely acting as a spokesperson - he's sitting next to her the Return of the Ancestors video) and probably also Adam Yellowbird are part of, have one day called her with this 'all explaining story' that the Grandfathers (who are they?) have been watching her grow up and taught her all kinds of supernatural lessons. So that she can now share her wisdom. This must have sounded so beautiful to her, an opportunity to shine and to heal the world.
I haven't got evidence to support this but i'm very certain that she has been in contact with these people before they called her. Her behavior of making mountains out of molehills and looking away from/discarding any evidence that goes against her beliefs (including those about herself) exactly fits the gap that makes this story about the phone call seem so magical. She never explicitly mentions that she has never been in contact with them before... if that would be the case, i think she definitely would mention it in every talk or interview. That's how she is.
Also, how beautiful is this story that when she was 8 years old, she was picked up out of the crowd during a ceremony of her mother's tribe (it's still uncertain who her mother is and which tribe this is) by the leaders of the ceremony, and they were talking a language she could not understand. Now she thinks that they were talking about how she would become a shaman later, she's absolutely certain about it. The point is; the 'tribe' that made the phone call when she was 30 years old is not the same 'Sioux Salish' tribe; it's the New Age group where John Kimmey is part of, playing a wise old down-to-earth elder. Who told her that those ceremony leaders prophesied that she would become a shaman?
I think she told herself... or perhaps someone from her new group. If this ceremony really happened, and in case they actually even prophesied something, it would be that she'd exploit all these indigenous tribes by making false claims about being recognized by them, amongst many other things. I have to get this out of my system now. I'll be active again on these forums some other time, i think i've also got some info and insight to share about other people discussed in these forums. If they are for real, they should pass the test, simple as that...
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Crescent I agree with all Nemesis and Kathryn and Frieja have said here.
Saga, I don't agree. It's not about if there is good in her talks or if someone
agrees or doesn't agree. I can't seem to find words to express what I feel of
this thought of yours re Crowther and her good messages.
Anyone with a modicum of common sense can figure out what is a good thing
for people to think about or believe and deliver such as messages to people..
To me, it is like the sales man offering what sounds good just to get the buyers
to the sales floor, from there they can sell them more.
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Think I didn't get my point through. And I am not able to explain what I am trying to say. Ofc it is not good to follow lies and get all into illusions. It's bit like letting someone to interpret bible to you, if you wont use your own brains at all, anyone can tell you what to do, which is why the people who base all on lies shouldn't be lt close to vulnerable people... But like in bible, some of the very basic values without the unnecessary mambojambo, Kiesha did get something right, which is why people listen. Everyone feels lost and someone talks emotionally about love and family, great, lets go to that... Just wish that people would keep that love and family in mind and leave the "leaders" and "tribes" and actually do something for their lives. I am not into dissing the whole idea of miracles, but I actually doubted her background and the tribe thing from the beginning, it doesn't feel right at all for someone to start gathering tribe that doesn't do anything else than dwell in it own awesomeness...
I want to ask one question btw and I hope it is not so... Is this forum for looking for the frauds, or is this for dissing all the spirituality? I read some topics and at some topics it seems that if someone says that he/she believes in something, what ever it is, he/she will be blamed for being gullible. Even if it was a "salespeech" there were enough good in that for people to buy it. And that doesn't mean that I would support her actions. If someone is giving ANY kind of guidance to anyone else, they need to do that totally different way and let people find their own answers anyway, imho...
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Oh and btw, about Kiesha's stories... Even I would have stories like that to share, if I wanted. :) Just needs a bit exaggeration and making natural things magical... I actually could do that pretty easy, I have the right kind of stories to build on and some writing skills... speaking is something I should learn tho, lol. Hey guys, here's your future fraud! :p
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Oh and btw, about Kiesha's stories... Even I would have stories like that to share, if I wanted. :) Just needs a bit exaggeration and making natural things magical... I actually could do that pretty easy, I have the right kind of stories to build on and some writing skills... speaking is something I should learn tho, lol. Hey guys, here's your future fraud! :p
Oh, I do that ALL the time! In my books! (fiction).
It´s a great way to canalize the imagination and you can legally be totally crazy because everyone KNOWS it´s made up.
Or...should I say...most people know. I do get the occasional guys phoning me saying they know for sure it is not fiction. "Yes, it is! I made it up!" I say. "No, you didn´t!" they tell me. Well, whatever....And I do have the occasional reader phoning me saying that one of my made up characters are standing in her house. Or someone who has seen mythological persons from my books (I sometimes write about the Nordic Gods) walking down their street. Not to mention when they go hiking trying to find them.... It´s bizarre at times! :D
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Well, i like to think "magically" too occasionally, but I know at the same time that if I see and interpret something as a magical, I do that consciously, because I want magic in my life and I can just as well interpret things in non-magical way. :) Human imagination is endless, you actually can form new worlds with it... unfortunately mostly just inside this one. ;)
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I want to ask one question btw and I hope it is not so... Is this forum for looking for the frauds, or is this for dissing all the spirituality?
Responding in tangent thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2955
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I'd just like to make a person observation that Crowther, her followers and a lot of us in this discussion have seemed to miss. One of the main philosophies Crowther's using right now is this concept she calls the Great I Am. This concept at its root....as she's explained it, is actually the opposite of local indigenous religions/philosophies/ways of life around the world. Her "Great I Am" concept actually more resembles one of the main viewpoints Judeo-Christianity who believe we're born in the image of God and we're inherently good at birth and that goodness is ours to lose. Up to the point of the emergence of Judaism in world history, the world's oldest religions/philosophies preached the exact opposite of that. Buddhism would tell you that life is suffering, in Hinduism you're trying to find a way out of the cycle of reincarnation etc. Crowther claims to be a representative for Sioux/Salish people. I'm not Lakota, but whenever I see Lakotas pray it usually involves some self-chastizing....a realization that you a pitiful being in comparison to the Great Spirit. Don't take my words as gospel....only someone well-educated in Lakota ways can tell you the real deal about that, but that observation is the counter to being a "Great I Am". In fact, many indigenous religions all around the world have beliefs that revolve around not believing Crowther's philosophy, but believing to be the opposite.
That fact alone, for those that wish to follow "shamanism" in any way you define it should be enough to convince you that she doesn't know what she's talking about and in fact, she's just telling people positive things about themselves.
Superdog
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You are right actually, altho she does include "we are all one" in that too and mix little bit praying in the soup after telling that there is no god...
Actually, what I have read about shamanism, the shamans in one book, where they were interviewed, not to tell about how ceremonies are done, but about their role. They mostly said that they are servants and bridge from humans to spirits and that you need to be very careful with the power you have and you need to be humble and not to lift yourself above others and so on. And some even said that it is immoral to ask money from the services because the spirits would then back off and draw the power away, altho you can accept the gifts people want to give you from their own free will... Can't remember what sort of shamans or wise men these were tho, it's a long time when I read the book... And what I have read about indigenous people before, community and everything outside you is more important than you in many cases and gods and spirits walk beside you and you ask help and guidance all the time really and there is lots of honoring and respect and humbleness involved in general. When thinking about it, even my own country's old ways were about that...
So yes, the message is almost all new age. Anyone can perform a ritual that looks like authentic one btw, you can copy some pagan ritual and add some necessary accessories and there you go...
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Superdog - those were my thoughts, too, when I heard her message here in Sweden.
A lot of "I, I, I...."
It´s all taylor-made for a non-Native audience, especially those with low self worth, since I believe that if you feel good about yourself and your life, you wouldn´t get sucked in to these kind of "cults".
And therein lies the paradox: people I meet wanting to "become Indian" often think this is some kind of selfempowering culture. (Yes, ONE culture). Telling them that Native cultures are all about community and family, helping out in your neighbourhood etc., they look at me with disbelief. It´s quite often those duties they would like to escape from.
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I wanted to leave all this be for a while, but it has been brought to my attention that the tribeofmanycolors.net website administrator Veetkam has published my real-life name and the city where i live, in a locked topic on his forums. I used to be registered with my real life name there, and the city where i live is accessible to people who are in my friends list there. But it's still an unwanted breach of privacy (by a website and forum administrator; can you believe it?). I've sent him a message kindly asking him to remove it, and of course he wouldn't, as i received some hysterical message in return. This perfectly shows what kind of a man he really is.
This is the message that he's put out to the world:
To Mitzie and Crystal:
Just to let you Clear with whom you have to do:
Crescent = Real life name - City is a active colaborator and Information-stringer - he brings names of assistants etc. and more informations to this Inquisition-Forum - But for themselve he does Hide his Identity behind the pseudonym : Crescent - as he changed it also here - because of the reason that he does not want his Identity is so open reachable in the Internet.
Thats a freedom he has - of course - and its our freedom to take notice what he really does
This is the accolade he earned there from the "Main-Administrator"
To Crescent: I am glad you are here helping us do research, and helping alert others to what goes on in Crowther's groups.
I expected something like this to happen. He has actually published private messages before, sent to him by someone who used to coordinate all the translators. There also used to be another Facebook group for the 'Tribe of many colors' which he basically overpowered by making all kinds of allegations, just to be in control of everything (from what i've heard). I've actually defended him in this topic, saying that he is not a conman, that he made the tribeofmanycolors.net forums for free and is not getting any money out of this. I've done lots of translation work for his site and this is what i get in return, along with lots of angry messages. I've only sent him friendly and peaceful messages.
I've already received a message from someone else on those forums who says he really doesn't agree with what Veetkam is doing. This is only working against him and against Kiesha Crowther. The only information that i'm putting out in this topic on NAFPS, can be found by anyone, by watching her videos, listening to her interviews and reading her messages. Yet another inconsistency in Little Grandmother's story: if she can sense people's 'energy signature' so well, she (or her group) would not leave the ownership and maintenance of such a website in the hands of a man who 'lowers his energy' all the time and is not 'changing the channel'. A wannabe spiritual man.
If he's trying to intimidate me, he's failing horribly. Can you believe this guy is like 40 years older than me? If he is so steady in his beliefs why is he so much concerned with what i'm writing here?
One last edit ;). I want to finish this by quoting a message someone posted on Facebook today, which i think is a perfect and very straightforward example of where this Tribe stuff is going.
Hi Tribe...Imagine Our Shamans relief, when You quit all personal acknowledgements about Your presence...And not Being present !
Only by passing on her mesage, and fullfill Our Primary Purpose by bringing one more person to Our Tribe, especially if You Are adequate in presence to the Gathering...
Remember You are never inadequate of Recovery by spreading - Our Concept -
I´m Yours...
- thx -
- O -
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Did I already say that the person who wrote in the tribe forum about the need of transparency in the background and all... her IP seems to be blocked from entering in the tribe site at all now? (at least she says that everything else works like a charm but that site says forbidden to enter the server) The one that did write that The only information that Crescent is putting out in this topic on NAFPS, can be found by anyone, by watching her videos, listening to her interviews and reading her messages in the forum.
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Crescent,
I understand that you are not intimidated by the great and powerful Admin Veetkam. But if he is going to be posting private information on individuals there, people need to pull their head out of the clouds and realize that if they say or do something that pisses Admin Veetkam off then their privacy and potentially their saftey could be compromised. His actions are disturbing to say the very least. So you're a 20 something guy. What if you were a 20 something woman? He is placing people in danger. How does that support their supposed messiah's message? It's all love and light so long as you don't think for yourself? This is cult mentality.
Take care and stay safe,
Sky
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Wow, that's awful Crescent! Hopefully this is also a reminder to people to keep their personal information off the net. That is just really creepy to say the least!
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Crescent
So this is Veetkam W. Rentsch, tantric masseur and follower of Oshso who did this to you?
I have to be honest and say that I am very concerned.
In fact I was the one who posted up details identifying him and his interests (which I feel are dubious to say the least) and you actually defended him against my concerns, saying that he was well meaning and exploited rather than an exploiter.
If this is how he responds to people who defend him, I hate to think of what he would to to people who question his motives.
I wonder whether it might be worth contacting his ISP?
It is one thing to post up details of a person that they themselves have made available, as I did with Veetkam W. Rentsch, but quite another for a webmaster to post up private and confidential about a person, that compromises their safety, and that they have not given permission to make public.
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I defended him at first because i thought he was actually trying his best to be a good person.
About the tribe forums: my screen name used to be my real-life name as the registration form he uses for his tribe site is confusing, and you can't change your name by yourself. There also is a little bug on the site which shows the author of one single topic that i've posted there, as my previous screen name (my real life name). And the city where i live can be viewed by people who are in my friends list, or by searching my real life name on the internet. Because of that, i don't think he's doing anything we can take action against (correct me if i'm wrong). Maybe he's breaking his own forum rules though, but i have no desire to check it out now, i'm done with this little man. He's trying to intimidate me and it's only working against him.
But still, i am certain he is not so much directly involved with Kiesha Crowther. He has found her videos when they weren't viewed so much, and decided to make the website. Apparently she has now endorsed it as the Official Site for the Tribe of Many Colors but it started as something more of a fan site. My suggestion is to shift the attention back to John Kimmey, Adam Yellowbird and of course Crowther herself.
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Well, I am not sure if the visitors can browse the forum users tho. And if they can't, his actions published your real name and location to visitors too in addition to forum members.
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There is yet again something else i want to post here ;D. I'm in contact with some other people who used to be active on the tribe site and i heard a very interesting theory.
In this 'Response to misinformation on the web', the anonymous writer talks about how their group thinks Kiesha Crowther is the incarnation of something very important. Also, i've heard this story some time before about how she would be the fair-haired child from some alleged prophecy. A friend of mine suggested the possibility that they might actually be talking about "White Buffalo Calf Woman". I do know that the site admin Veetkam has recently put a video about White Buffalo Calf Woman, on the Tribe of Many Colors Facebook page (which only has 6 select videos), and also on his own Facebook page for his own 'Crystal Sun' spiritual therapy thingy (which has a lot of different videos). Perhaps he hears more about what goes on behind the scenes, so there may be a connection.
I must clearly state that i have never heard Crowther or anyone else involved with her, talk about this or read anything about it, so don't bother to search for it in her previous messages, videos, websites or whatever. If it turns out that they believe this, they are apparently not that foolish. But it may be possible that this is what they're aiming for, as it does seem to fit this whole construct that they've created around her. Crowther does seem to talk about albino animals quite often, how they are special and sacred, have such a super high "vibration" (Argh! I've become allergic to that word). She's talked about albino buffalo's, whales and some others if i remember correctly... and from what i know, the legend of White Buffalo Calf Woman is associated with... white buffalo's ::) then again, Crowther's speeches and messages are a mishmash of a whole lot of things derived from other sources so don't take my word for it.
Anyway, this is the same video as the one Veetkam uploaded on Facebook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJrpZi33gnI
Edit: There's another video someone has once posted on the Tribe forums, about the Lakota, White Buffalo Calf Woman and 2012. Yes, an interesting combination. :'(
I haven't watched it, i don't think this kind of stuff is healthy for me right now, but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOa-QyDLMQ
While i believe this was posted by just a regular forum member, it does show (from my point of view) that there is a subliminal tendency towards this stuff in Crowther's messages.
Again, i could be completely wrong on this, it's just a theory. I'm gonna leave this to people who know more about Lakota spirituality. For those of you who will keep an eye on Crowther and her activities; please, also keep an eye out for any talk about this. I've got the feeling that this might cause a lot of uproar if this is what they truly believe.
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There are already a few crazy white people out there claiming to be WBCW. It's such a stupid thing to do, that mostly they are laughed at and ignored. If Crowther claims this, she'll be laughed at and reviled even more than she is now. I think it would be really dumb (not to mention profoundly offensive) for her to make this claim. If she does, it will backfire on her in a big way.
But thinking about what she's said, yes, it makes sense that this is what she's implying. I would guess she's already making this outrageous claim in private... or her handlers are making this claim for her. She probably never heard of WBCW until recently. They're probably waiting to see how the inner circle responds before going completely public with it.
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Hmmm....is that why she claims to be working with Arvol?
And trying it out in private, just like Kathryn says?
>:(
On the other hand, it is so offensive and so crazy that it might be what is needed for a lot of people to open their eyes.
Most of these frauds step over the line sooner and later when the power goes to their heads.
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One little remark: she has never claimed to work with Arvol or even talked about him, i had never heard of him before i visited these forums. I've read the reply where you said that before in this thread but i think it's been made up by those people you were talking to. Which on the other hand shows how so many followers DO think, or want to think, that Crowther is recognized by an established tribe and teaches something in the lines of Native American spirituality... and that she may be avoiding any mention of him because it would be dangerously stupid.
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Kiesha has posted the warriors of the rainbow story herself many times tho, as well as the other "tribers". They all seem to have interest in stuff from Drunvalo Melchizedek and channelers like Tom Kenyon, or something like that and mostly other new age things, some environment stuff (very little, if thinking that part of the message is to honor sacred mother earth) and Don Alejandro's speeches... dimensions and ascensions and 2012, blah. I am interested in theories, but actually believing in them isn't too high on my list... :)
(Also found http://www.onlinehumanities.com/ from some early posted links of Kiesha herself, which more or less teaches some of the basics of same things she is "teaching", at least if checking some of the contents...)
Anyone have any new actual info about her relations, i mean actual proof that she isn't part of any tribe and have no blessing from any elders mentioned? Most of our talks here are doubts and indigenous/non indigenous content in teachings anyway, or have I missed something? (Ofc... the fact that she doesn't give names, is a bit bad sign itself.) I just want to be sure, don't crusify me from asking. :)
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Also, how beautiful is this story that when she was 8 years old, she was picked up out of the crowd during a ceremony of her mother's tribe (it's still uncertain who her mother is and which tribe this is) by the leaders of the ceremony, and they were talking a language she could not understand. Now she thinks that they were talking about how she would become a shaman later, she's absolutely certain about it. The point is; the 'tribe' that made the phone call when she was 30 years old is not the same 'Sioux Salish' tribe; it's the New Age group where John Kimmey is part of, playing a wise old down-to-earth elder. Who told her that those ceremony leaders prophesied that she would become a shaman?
It's a nice story, but it's not real. She's fantasizing and has made it up to satisfy an empty place inside of her. This story sounds like a hollywood movie, where they make the white person a shaman or a chief. So many people watch movies like Dances with wolves or Stolen women captured hearts depicting a white person who is the hero among the ndns. Then the person is given a high status in the tribe or marries in. Into the West, a bastardized version of manifest destiny and the genocide of my ancestors also depicts a white man who marries himself a ndn woman and he's the hero in the story. People watch these movies and they want a dances with wolves fantasy. They want to be the white person who's adopted by the tribe and holds status. Or they want to be in the ceremonies holding a spiritual high place in them.
I have nothing against white people coming and learning. Only if the do this in respect and with an elder. You must go to an elder and ask permission. You don't play ndn on the prairie in the faked sweat lodges. It is bad news, these faked lodges, and seeing what happened at the resort with the fake new age leader and the people dying in those lodges. This goes to show that these are sacred and they are not to be manufactured by someone out there playing ndn. My heart goes to these people who were seekers, true seekers needing something, wanting their own vision. You want a vision? Go out and get one, but you do not need Kiesha Crowther to give that to you. The vision is waiting and it will come as it should to you. You can't pay for this my friend. No amount of money in the world gives you the true sacred ceremony. Please don't be feeling badly about being tricked. Read through Brooke medicine eagle's thread and see how this woman claimed Crow and other tribes and managed to fool a land owner in Montana and another woman looking for spiritual guidance.
I cannot help but feel anger at what people like this do to others. They sell you something fake and they reach in and grab your heart because your spirit is yearning for something. I don't like what Kiesha is doing to people and that is why my family and I have stepped in to say something about it. If someone is claiming a certain tribe you can check with that tribe yourself to see if that person is lying.
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Kiesha has posted the warriors of the rainbow story herself many times tho, as well as the other "tribers". They all seem to have interest in stuff from Drunvalo Melchizedek and channelers like Tom Kenyon, or something like that and mostly other new age things, some environment stuff (very little, if thinking that part of the message is to honor sacred mother earth) and Don Alejandro's speeches... dimensions and ascensions and 2012, blah. I am interested in theories, but actually believing in them isn't too high on my list... :)
(Also found http://www.onlinehumanities.com/ from some early posted links of Kiesha herself, which more or less teaches some of the basics of same things she is "teaching", at least if checking some of the contents...)
Anyone have any new actual info about her relations, i mean actual proof that she isn't part of any tribe and have no blessing from any elders mentioned? Most of our talks here are doubts and indigenous/non indigenous content in teachings anyway, or have I missed something? (Ofc... the fact that she doesn't give names, is a bit bad sign itself.) I just want to be sure, don't crusify me from asking. :)
she claimed she was made shaman over the Salish tribe. the Salish don't know her. please phone their office and ask. as for her relations in CO my sister and cousin are working on this. they only know a bit of info on how the husband has taken her to court for sole custody of the children.
Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes
42487 Complex Blvd.
PO Box 278
Pablo, Montana 59855
Phone Numbers:
Headquarter: (406) 675-2700
Toll Free: (888) 835-8766
Fax: (406) 675-2806
and more numbers here, entire list
http://www.cskt.org/about/contactus.htm
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Thank you for answering so fast and thoroughly. :) I really liked some of her speeches since some of it was what I wanted and needed to hear at the time I found her videos, fortunately I got over it pretty fast and started looking more personal spirituality, indeed to look in my heart...I remember asking from her, if she really meant that we are supposed to look into our own hearts and follow our own truth and not to follow what her heart says to do, but she never answered me (I know, question everything, lol. Just wanted to be sure of the message. :))
I just don't want to judge anyone really without having actual proof in any case, altho this case looks pretty sure.
It might be a bit too expensive to phone in the office to ask about her from northern Europe, so I'll take your word on it. Might consider writing there later, if I feel it is worth it tho, but not now... :) For now I think that I need to draw back a bit from the subject and and heal the wounds caused by a lie from myself. Even good intentions don't justify lies.
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One little remark: she has never claimed to work with Arvol or even talked about him, i had never heard of him before i visited these forums. I've read the reply where you said that before in this thread but i think it's been made up by those people you were talking to.
Well, there is obviously no way of knowing who is lying. I was told that it came up in a private discussion when someone asked if she knew Arvol, since she was a "Sioux" shaman. And she said yes, praised him for all the good work he did and then gave the people the impression she worked with him.
But - yes - the people who got in contact with me might be lying. Sure! And Kiesha might be lying if she says it never happened. Who knows. Interesting, though, that she is talking about albino animals which is pretty much the prophecy that Arvol has shared with the world. AND the connection to White Buffalo Calf Woman....
I have a feeling there are owls in the marsh. (Very old Swedish saying....sounds even more crazy when it is translated....) :)
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Aha, i see. Yes, that might be very possible, that she's been in contact with those people, and gave them the impression that she's working together with Arvol. Not the first time she's given anyone a false impression like that ;). I thought these people you have talked to had never talked with Crowther, but just made up this story about how she was a representative of Arvol because it fits their fantasy image of how she is really recognized by Native American elders, and all that. But she's never talked about him in her videos, interviews or messages tho.
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Of course not Crescent.. that would be way too easy for someone to see and call her out on. Even tho most would never have heard of Arvol, all it would take is one person to see that, verify it, and then challenge her on it.
Most frauds are not too stupid in covering their tracks.. they cannot stay in business if it is easily debunked. :)
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Hello people from NAFPS
This is my first post.
I wanted to share a first hand report about Keisha Crowther, who this week (october 27 and 28) did three public speakings in a small church in the town of Zeist, the Netherlands. Three times a full house, so all in all Crowther attracted some 1200 people, who paid 39 euro (54 dollars) to see her.
How did I get there? Someone suggested my friend and me to go and see her, because Crowther really would be something special: a real American shaman, etc.
I have to admit I didn’t do that much research (only saw one or two YouTube movies), so I wasn’t aware that the NAFPS already had this thread about her being a fraud. No, me and my friends really believed Crowther was the real thing, so we went to see her in the hope of experiencing something special.
And her public appearance definitely WAS something special…It’s almost frightening to see this young woman talk about love, opening up, creating a better world for all of us, etcetera. Actually quite convincing at first, especially as she even broke down and cried some three times during that night - completely overtaken by her feelings of love and empathy for all living things, mother earth, etc etc. (and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
But when Crowther returned after a break her message of love took a different turn, making me and my friends increasingly uncomfortable. It started with her speaking about Atlantis, then the Crystal Skulls (who she says are going to be really important soon), the upcoming polar shift (‘It’s already happening’), UFO-sightings, aliens (they are here, talking to Crowther all the time – and where do they hide? in the bodies of the mentally disabled..) and how the US-government yearly spends 1 billion dollars to cover up the fact that our earth is visited by aliens in UFO’s…
In only 45 minutes my mood changed from being (kind of) open minded to utter depression. What a load of crap! So, we (my friends and I) all walked out before the end of the night, convinced that this woman is completely crazy. (strangely, most of the audience was really impressed by her).
The following day I decided to do the proper research and found your website and this enlightning thread ?
I also found this site: http://www.niburunews.com/
It’s (partly) in Dutch and has articles and videos about all the things Crowther talked about in the second part of her ‘performance’. It has a glowing review of Crowther’s visit to the Netherlands and also mentions that the guy who runs this site had the chance to meet Crowther earlier that day and talk about the themes on his website. Maybe this inspired her to mention all this stuff the night we attended.
Anyway: I’m glad I was able to find out myself that Crowther is the kind of false prophet that possibly belongs in a mental hospital. Yet she’s quite convincing in the way she presents herself as a nice girl who’s only here to bring her ‘important message’ to the world.
It’s all quite spooky actually..
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Those "weird" things you mentioned also got me doubting more and more... First videos didn't had that sorts of things so much, so was totally taken, only few uncomfortable moments there... In the next ones I noticed that the "message" is quite different than I thought. I haven't seen her talking "live", but all the speeches available in video or audio do show how good "show-woman" she is.
The last thing I needed to take a step back was the fact that she mentioned something that only those who are awakened to "be the love" and see things her way are going to get in this better world/dimension/what ever. I don't need that crap, I get enough of that with christianity, which isn't my kind of religion either... And to be honest, that kind of remarks in anything else than main religions make me think of suicide cults, especially with aliens mixed there too. Might have seen too many documents... Think there was one cult that waited for aliens to come to get them and did group suicide to enter the space ship or something...
I am bit worried about the people following her, even if she is harmless and just lives in her own illusion, those people will take a big hit because of it at some point and then be again totally without a direction.
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Thanks for your post, Broken Arrow. Can't believe so many people came to see her! I thought there might be like 500 people total, and even that would have been a very large amount of cash. 20 euros would still be expensive but not too extreme, but so many people paying 39 euros? That's just crazy. The total intake of those two days would be 46800 euros. Of course the church has to be rent, the people who organized the event have to get paid as well, there's travel costs and all kinds of things but no matter how you look at it, that's a shitload of money.
I already thought she wouldn't have anything new to talk about. Everything that you've mentioned and everything that this niburu site says; she's talked about it before. And it's all derived from other sources, of which some are very questionable. I think some of the strange stuff she talks about is true but many other public speakers talk about those things as well... and a lot of other things she talks about are pure bs. On her FAQ, her assistant says that these speeches and workshops are not important but are just for the people who want something extra. But i'm wondering how many people read that and realize that. I donated 50 euros to her once because at the time she had me convinced that something hugely important was going on & that she was in the middle of it... she must have had all these other people convinced as well.
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That's just crazy. The total intake of those two days would be 46800 euros. Of course the church has to be rent, the people who organized the event have to get paid as well, there's travel costs and all kinds of things but no matter how you look at it, that's a shitload of money.
Having organised speakingtours myself - like the European NAFPS tour with Al :) - I find this "shitload of money" questionable. But there again, it depends where the money goes. The only costly thing is the travellingcosts. Accommodation will easily be provided by people who want to support "the mission". And I have never paid for a hall - you can always come up with a good deal or use schools, museums, libraries, whatever. There are no big marketingcosts. In this case they are mostly using internet. If you are doing what you are doing for a good cause, there are plenty of ways to minimize the costs. And I think it would be much easier to find cheap halls, accommodation etc. for Kiesha´s speaking tour than for the anti-exploitation tours that I used to fix. Sad, but true.
I definitely think that speakers should be paid a decent fee. However, the speakers I have organised tours for, like Al and Arvol, have given most of their money to charity or to elders on the rez. And all the people helping out with bookings, planning, tickets etc did it for free. Again, maybe Kiesha is donating her part of the money to charity. And if she is a true NA medicineperson, I am sure she wouldn´t mind transparancy. Someone should ask her.....Follow the money and you will find out who is a genuinely spiritual person .
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....Actually quite convincing at first, especially as she even broke down and cried some three times during that night - completely overtaken by her feelings of love and empathy for all living things, mother earth, etc etc. (and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
But when Crowther returned after a break her message of love took a different turn, making me and my friends increasingly uncomfortable. It started with her speaking about Atlantis, then the Crystal Skulls (who she says are going to be really important soon), the upcoming polar shift (‘It’s already happening’), UFO-sightings, aliens (they are here, talking to Crowther all the time – and where do they hide? in the bodies of the mentally disabled..) and how the US-government yearly spends 1 billion dollars to cover up the fact that our earth is visited by aliens in UFO’s…
The whole breaking down crying during a speech to impress your audience...that's the kind of cheap tactic I've never seen done by a Native elder or leader, though many get very emotional during speeches. You know who does that in the US, who Crowther probably imitated? TV evangelists, fundamentalist Christian preachers, and self improvement gurus.
Every other thing you list is a hodgepodge of every Nuage and conspiracy nonsense idea on the net. I don't know of a single Native leader who believes in them, beyond a few elderly people who are thought of as a bit eccentric and humored if they hold onto even one of these beliefs, much less dozens of these. She certainly proved she knows nothing of either Salish or Lakota beliefs or traditions.
Like Annika (Freija) points out, she and others helped me out quite a bit on that speaking tour of Europe. I slept on their couches, cots, in their guestrooms and living rooms, and spoke at everywhere from universities to public meeting halls, usually charging about 5 euros. And we still made enough to break even and to keep the Albuquerque Indian center open the rest of the year.
So let me issue yet another challenge to Crowther and her supporters:
Where are the tens of thousands of dollars she's making going? Those three nights alone made over 60 grand.
Show your expenses. Be open and honest about where the money's going.
Name any charities and causes the money is given to (if any.)
No vague nonsense about "helping spread her message" or "helping Natives" or "helping peace." Show everyone in detail, just what, exactly.
Until then, you just look like a shameless hustler.
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We may have found out where the false claim that Crowther works with or is endorsed by Looking Horse came from.
I got an account saying Nan Morton of a Dutch site called Fairway is the one making that claim. And in this section of the site she makes the claim to have hosted Looking Horse and others, esp those 13 Grandmothers that seem to be everywhere.
Babelfish translation. Anyone speaking Dutch please correct anything wrong.
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http://www.fairway-trainingen.nl/HTML/nieuwsmain.html
Our foundation is a nonprofit organisation, which is dedicated to world peace and busy keeps himself with healing, by keeping healingcircles in nature, both on the country and on water. Visit the Internet site of the foundation for information on healingcircles in other countries. www.ooarch.com/wisdom
Context: Nan and Neel Morton the Wisdom or the Grandmothers have set up foundation. In the past twenty-five years them both LEADERs and participants have been at spiritual, cultural exchanges concerning the complete world. They share their helderziende and healing talents for the usefulness of whole. For this reason they are very respected and them have been adopted by domestic American and Australian Aborigine descend. They with tribe seniors in Norths, central and south America, Africa, Australia, Canada, Mexico, the Philippines, China, Europe have worked etc. Them has been selected be possible travel as ambassadors for peace and they cooperate closely with Lakota-, Nakota- and the Dakota Native American Chief Arvol Looking Horse, Lakota Medicine Chief Looks For Buffalo, Hopi Grandmother Constance Mirabal, Tewa Grandfather Ernest Mirabal, Maya Grandmother Flordemayo, Navajo Grandfather Chester Kahn, Mahatma Gandhi' s for the Ela Gandhi, the Grandmothers Rita Blumenstein and Marie Mead Alaska and Grandmother Auntie Dawn van Hawaï and with others still a lot of.
Nan and Neel have been called their own spiritual insights and talents and those of the Grandmothers to share with people of the four wind directions and them do that on and humour-full manner relax. Both the honour and the responsibility the saint has been possible pour carry channupahs (peace and gebedspijpen) and water during the initipi (sweat hut) ceramics. Neel are architect and apply Earth-Friendly, (environment-friendly) architecture in the hillock landscape of Texas. The natural surroundings are always part of the healingcircles. Nan are the eigenaresse of Art & Soul music, healingcentrum and art gallery where she gives also courses and lead healingcircles. And its name is peace In this notebook Nan Morton concerning tell its travel, the Healing and Peacecircles and what unfolds itself there all round around. The notebook is order by means of: info@fairway-trainingen.nl or telephonically: 072-5600279 and during the Healing to keep and Peacecircles.
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I took brief look to both sites, english and dutch (altho I don't speak dutch either, so can't say too much about it, only what google translation gives out) and at least in her sites, there is no mention about Little Grandmother at all. All those other people mentioned are there ofc as well as mention about their projects:
"Many projects are under way within the Wisdom of the Grandmother's Foundation. To list a few...
# Holistic healing progams offered worldwide to help heal mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, & social diseases.
# Coats, shoes, propane gas and food drive for the Oglala Lakota Nation of South Dakota.
# Indigenous Peoples World Concert & Dance Tour
# Future World Gatherings: Greek Isles, Viet Nam, Mexico.
# Teachings and ceremony offered to groups by appointment in Texas and other states. (Min. of ten participants)
# Marketing and distribution of art, ceremonial items and music of indigenous tribes and those dedicated to the healing arts.
# Group and personal channeled readings; hands-on healing; breath therapy; shamanic journeying and soul retrieval by appointment.
# Documentary film & video projects to preserve the wisdom of the Elders and those who have walked before us.
# Computer based educational programs for remote areas of Alaska, Africa & Australia.
# Environmentally / Earth-friendly architecture. Residential and commercial design offering sound, attractive structures for those in need."
I get sometimes little confused with all the grandmothers, the ones mentioned here are from the 13 indigenous grandmothers, right? Since there is also the channeled grandmothers and "normal" grandmothers around sharing their wisdom. :p
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I can't find mentions of Kiesha Crowther either, though i don't know if they've mentioned this in meetings or something.
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(and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
There's a new video of a speech in Zurich, Switzerland where she says exactly the same kind of thing. I've watched it for 90 seconds but am never going to look at it again to avoid further brain damage.
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/66SdG1/www.vimeo.com/16812713
Starting at 30 seconds in.
Wow Kiesha, are you really this psychic? You're like superwoman.
Also have to add that her voice gave me the chills. The apparent enthusiasm is gone, she talks like a robot now.
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(and recognising this Dutch church filled with people from a vision she says she had in her youth).
There's a new video of a speech in Zurich, Switzerland where she says exactly the same kind of thing. I've watched it for 90 seconds but am never going to look at it again to avoid further brain damage.
http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/66SdG1/www.vimeo.com/16812713
Starting at 30 seconds in.
Wow Kiesha, are you really this psychic? You're like superwoman.
Also have to add that her voice gave me the chills. The apparent enthusiasm is gone, she talks like a robot now.
She talks such bs.
"When I was 30 I received a call from the indigenous nations of North America and an elder told me it was time to become a shaman, a wisdomkeeper"
Gawd what a lie...at best a sincere misrepresentation.
I wouldn't doubt that someone called her and told her that (although that sounds dubious even of itself), but the idea that there is a collective "Indigenous Nations of North America" plays upon that old stereotype that we're somehow all the same and IT'S NOT TRUE!
Just to reiterate in case someone is browsing by and reading this thread and not a member of the board
There are over 500 different Native American tribes across the US and Canada each with cultures that are tribal specific and communal and DO NOT do things as a "collective". Especially when it comes to spiritual matters as spirituality is once again communal, tribal specific and often tied to the land and is different on a case to case basis.
She DOES NOT represent any indigenous nation in North America let alone all of them.
Superdog
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I took brief look to both sites, english and dutch (altho I don't speak dutch either, so can't say too much about it, only what google translation gives out) and at least in her sites, there is no mention about Little Grandmother at all. All those other people mentioned are there ofc as well as mention about their projects:
"Many projects are under way within the Wisdom of the Grandmother's Foundation. To list a few...
# Holistic healing progams offered worldwide to help heal mental, emotional, physical, spiritual, & social diseases.
# Coats, shoes, propane gas and food drive for the Oglala Lakota Nation of South Dakota.
# Indigenous Peoples World Concert & Dance Tour
# Future World Gatherings: Greek Isles, Viet Nam, Mexico.
# Teachings and ceremony offered to groups by appointment in Texas and other states. (Min. of ten participants)
# Marketing and distribution of art, ceremonial items and music of indigenous tribes and those dedicated to the healing arts.
# Group and personal channeled readings; hands-on healing; breath therapy; shamanic journeying and soul retrieval by appointment.
# Documentary film & video projects to preserve the wisdom of the Elders and those who have walked before us.
# Computer based educational programs for remote areas of Alaska, Africa & Australia.
# Environmentally / Earth-friendly architecture. Residential and commercial design offering sound, attractive structures for those in need."
I get sometimes little confused with all the grandmothers, the ones mentioned here are from the 13 indigenous grandmothers, right? Since there is also the channeled grandmothers and "normal" grandmothers around sharing their wisdom. :p
Just thinking aloud
A lot of the above activities fall into a kind of grey economy whereby people pay cash or can invest cash in various projects
I'm not saying that this is what is happening, but sometimes organised criminals use these kinds of newage grey economies for money laundering. There are so many intangible assets involved and cash moving around that it is easy to draw up fake accounts re revenue streams.
As I said before, I am not saying that this is what is happening here but I think it might be worth considering as a possibility.
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@Nemesis : Yes, it is common in all of the charity things, to use it for money laundrying or to just hoard money for the people who have build the organization... But what ever is the case with this, it seems to be separate from Kiesha.
I watched some of the new videos Crescent mentioned and it is true, she does sound like a robot... I couldn't help thinking some self-hypnosis cd when listening to her and then I started to feel sick... The feeling is gone, it is monotonic repeating on what ever she had said before. Not to mention that she looks drained and tired, or just bit weird in some videos. There's videos from Zürich but also from Sweden or Denmark or something...
What actually bothers me most at the moment is that she has started fear mongering with ecological subjects (guilt has always been good way to get attention), but still says that all you need to do is just BE love... which is more or less the biggest conflict to my ecologically conscious mind. Love mother earth, but by all means, continue living as you do and kill the rest of it. :p Not thinking about it will miraculously fix it, yay! Not that I'd be against sending the love to earth and humans, but I think that someone needs to actually act too, if any change is wanted...
Also she has taken ALL the worst theories on what is happening on earth and spread those now as absolute truths. And ofc starbeings are going to save us.
And @Superdog: Nice reminder, just wishing that more from the tribe would read this... Altho, they are taught not to judge and not to think with their brains, so...
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I couldn't help but clicking on another video in hopes that she says another stupid thing, because i really want people to see through her lies. And yes she did another stupid thing. She's deceiving her followers, keeping them on a leash. I couldn't watch for more than 2 minutes until i literally got a headache.
http://www.vimeo.com/16830337
This is an excerpt from one of her talks where she talks about 2012. Starting at 00:55 she talks about the Mayans and a minute later she mentions grandfather Alejandro. Now this grandfather Alejandro Cirilo Perez recently said in a pay-to-watch broadcast (at https://en.esoguru.com/2012-and-the-maya ), which really tens of thousands of people have watched, that all these New Age pundits who claim to know the Mayan calendar have got it wrong, and that there will not be some kind of 'shift' in 2012. It's all misinterpretations. It's hard to find the video elsewhere, they get deleted all the time because of copyright infringements, though i'm sure that if you spend some time searching you'll find it somewhere, for free. But here's a review which i think is good: http://jlnavarro.blogspot.com/2010/08/wandering-wolfs-esotv-webcast-message.html
But yet, she still mentions him as if he's a key proponent of the 2012 movement. She's quoted him many times before. Oh look, Authentic Indigenous Wise Old Tribal Shaman Elder Wandering Wolf is Mayan and he has some wise words to say so i will quote him (and conveniently leave out his words that oppose the Maya 2012 construct) and everyone will believe me.
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from fb under photos of Kiesha, "follower's" theory:
"A dream-message from the future? I was just watching Martin Keitel's new movie "Cereal Wormholes 2", where he tells at 29:30 about his dream-message in August of 2002 from the crop artists themselves, instructing him how to decode the spiral disc drawn at Crabwood a few days earlier (which he did not know about yet)..."
The woman from his dream was of Caucasian appearance but wears native American clothing. "A woman starts to talk. She says we need to listen to the Mayans. It is very important. The dream continues. I am with a group of people, and feel connected to those people. We are discussing how children will be prepared for an upcoming spiritual change in the world, but how governments won't support it."
I was just looking at Martin's new movie, since he is a colleague at studying crop circles, when suddenly I thought: "Hey, I know who that woman might be. She looks and sounds just like Kiesha Crowther!" Kiesha is a friend of Don Alejandro, the current Mayan wisdom-keeper in Guatemala. She is also a big fan of crop circles. In one of her videos, she says "white men in discs will soon return from the stars".
Yet how did she send a dream message to Martin in 2002, when she did not even become "Little Grandmother" until 2007? Another character in Martin's dream was Quetzalcoatl, whom the Hopis call Pahana. What if Quetzalcoatl really does return in late 2012, as a white man in a disc from the stars? Surely he will meet Kiesha, who is now a respected leader of several native American tribes. Plus he will have advanced spacetime technology as used to make crop pictures, which Martin calls "cereal wormholes".
So here is my idea: maybe Quetzalcoatl and Kiesha will meet sometime after 2012, and use his magical technology to send a psychic message back in time to Martin Keitel in 2002? We just saw a time-traveller with a mobile phone in one of Charlie Chaplin's old movies, so let's not dismiss this crazy idea too quickly! It has the ring of truth.
Best wishes to you, Kiesha, if this text and slide somehow reach you in the year 2010. And always remember that "the past is prelude"....
(Also in comments:) "A lot of people have begun to post personal criticisms of Kiesha on internet chat rooms. That is a good sign, because as Jim Watson once said while attending a scientific meeting, "If all of those people are getting angry at what the speaker is saying, then there must be something to it!" Watson, after his discovery of the correct DNA model in 1953, became very familiar with human egos."
I am so sad that people really think this way, especially the way the comment suggests. Not all of the critic in the world is there just because of the person is revealing "hidden truths". Guess this is a mind set of conspiracy theorist who wants to believe everything he/she has chosen to be the truth.
Wont comment the theory, otherwise than... now the looking for meanings is under full work then. :p
Edit: under that thing was also link to this site as an example of people who speak ill of her.
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Lol, that's awful. Yet another idiot who doesn't want to examine both sides of the coin because his fantasy world might just break apart.
"Kiesha is a friend of Don Alejandro" : >:(
"Kiesha, who is now a respected leader of several native American tribes" : ARGH!
"We just saw a time-traveller with a mobile phone in one of Charlie Chaplin's old movies" : http://hearing.siemens.com/sg/10-about-us/01-our-history/milestones.jsp?year=1924 ::)
Anyway...
There seem to be a lot of new videos now, after her Europe tour. I decided to watch part of one other video.
http://www.studio12.si/duhovnost/razno-duhovnost/1148-ancestral-knowledge-ang.html
-At 01:20 the intro text states "At age 30 she was initiated as Sioux shaman" >:( ,
and yet again, that she is recognized by the almighty invisible Continental council of indigenous elders, which she says is something like top-secret, yet their name is constantly used to promote her ???. For anyone not part of these forums who hasn't read this full topic, all the evidence indicates that there's nothing 'indigenous' or 'elders' about this so called council.
-At 06:45 she, misleadingly, brings up Alejandro Cirilo Perez again (see my last comment on the previous page) in her talk about the Maya 2012 stories. She obviously hasn't done any research about what real Mayans say, or 'received messages from the other side' about this. Just spitting out this gumball which so many Maya 2012 prophets have chewed on before her. Have you seen the movie Inception, where there are dreams within dreams within dreams? The Maya 2012 stuff that you'll find everywhere now are fairytales of fairytales of fairytales based on misinterpretations of the Mayan calendar.
Couldn't bother to watch more but i'm sure this isn't all of it.
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I do not understand why but these new age frauds most always find a mayan to attach themselves to, to seek validation. I've seen this so many times where someone will befriend or lay claim on a mayan and then they say "see, I am friend with Don Alejandro or Hun Batz Men, and so I know what I am talking about".
Kiesha Crowther has been talking about "pole shifts" and telling them that this is an "indian belief, a secret belief known by all indians of the world".
I am so angry I could spit. This woman needs to be stopped. I could care less about her rights to free speech. If one is going to speak, speak the truth, not lies. It needs to end.
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I agree. Shouldn't lie about the sources and background and everything. Ofc it wont sell well, if you just admit that you cooked the damn thing up or "channeled" the message from imaginary friends, but... at least it would be truthful to say that it is just another new age soup. I don't have lots of respect for people who try so hard to be someone else than they are... With that background lots of the "message" gets even more twisted than what it was in the first place.
And Mayans... I have spend lots of time looking into the culture of mayans and I am not so sure I would even want them to be the main thing to take from, quite a lot of blood in the history of mayans. Maybe they sacrificed to their "star being" gods. :p (Provokative opinion with no back up in reality or history, btw. :p) Altho I like some things Alejandro says... and of course the culture is one of the most known and admired, but still so mysterious, that it attracts people...
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Newest message btw:
"A message from the elders and ancestors for the tribe of many colors and all peoples... Gather healthy seeds at this time, find seed stores that provide healthy and uncontaminated seeds. There are companies in the works now that are trying to have all the rights to all seeds.. and ...these seeds will be damaged not to reproduce seeds in the plants grown.. so it is wise to find and buy healthy seeds now... this is important.. know your garden, know how to plant a garden, know your seeds. Kiesha Crowther"
This makes me bit worried, "know your garden" is ofc borrowed from hopi "prophecy" thing... I am not qualified to say whether it is aunthentic or not, but it is very popular and going around everywhere... so what's next, "create your community" and building up a cult?
Ofc sustainable life and own garden is a good thing, but this fear mongering isn't and since the "messages" are getting different from the original, i have a nagging feeling that before the 2012 arrives we have another end of the world cult here, this time really big one. Of course I am a pessimist in my core, so I hope I am exaggerating again. :)
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Well, there is an issue with a company called Monsanto, and farmers. Monsanto "owns" soybean seed and any farmer
found using it without having purchased "rights" from Monsanto will be taken to court. Some have lost everything
because of this monopoly take over, even when they have purchased another seed type, but cross pollination from
neighboring farms "contaminated" their seed with Monsanto.
So most likely this issue is where she is talking from.
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Exactemundo. Not from Kiesha Crowther's vague, all-powerful and again invisible 'ancestors' and 'elders'. Who exactly are these spirits and elders that she's laying claim to (other than Alejandro Cirilo Perez, which is simply not true)? If she receives messages from them it would be great for her followers to know who and what these sources are exactly, right?
I'm 99% sure she's just replacing "a video i've watched on the internet" with her default magic words "ancestors and elders".
Monsanto really is pretty much evil though. Watch the movie Food, Inc. It's one of the best documentaries i've ever seen, no kidding.
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How extremely odd. I almost can't believe it but I just had my first experience of this forum intersecting with my RL, other than my posting with queries. I am a community health worker and one pf my past jobs included being a "doula" (mom-to-mom labor support coach), so I am still on a listserv for labor support people in my state. Incredibly, someone posted the other day:
Little Grandmother
PLEASE Listen
Luister hier ALSJEBLIEFT NAAR.
http://vimeo.com/16812713
This was so weird because a post like that is totally outside the purpose of their listserv, it has nothing to do with the perinatal support role. I wondered if it was spam and assume that the poster will be reminded to stay on topic anyway, but I felt compelled to post a message in reply FYI, this individual calling herself 'Little Grandmother", Kiesha Crowther, is identified as fraudulently impersonating an indigenous shaman on the watchdog site, "New Age Frauds and Plastic Shamans." It is suggested by researchers who post to those forums that she may be considered a cult leader. Here is the thread where she is discussed: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.0. This is the site's intro page, where they express why this kind of misrepresentation is objectionable and harmful to Native communities, and link to some articles and statements put out by tribes against it: http://www.newagefraud.org/. Hope this information is helpful.
Que mundo...
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She move her act to vimeo.com instead of youtube? Anyway, I've left a link to this forum's discussion at that video. May it inform viewers.
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Yeah, I know about that Monsanto thing, something about it at least, just wondering how far this goes with the direction it has taken... How convenient that there is such a things to draw from right now. We don't have the problem in Europe, for now at least :p, can get all the seeds you want.
Today she is telling people to close their un-official tribe of many colors pages from facebook, because there should be only one. Think this has been under arguing before when "northern" tribe had to change it's name, because there should be "no separation between people"... Ofc, most people do that, want to keep their "inventions" to themselves.
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@ amorYcohetes
I've watched a little part of it before, but this video gets more and more bizarre. I've pinpointed some things in this video on the previous page. But Saga you're actually right, there are really some hypnotic elements incorporated in this video. Skip to 5:00 and take a look at how many times these transition effects are being used. When i first clicked on this video i thought the first 90 seconds were painful to watch, but now that i've skipped through the video a bit i can see how it gets much worse.
"These are not storytales, or fairytales. (video effect) The Mayan people are Atlanteans. (video effect) The Aboriginal people are Atlanteans. (video effect) The Hawaiian people are Sumerians. (video effect) And so it continues... she starts talking about how everything is dying and everything is doom, until at about 10:00 she starts shedding tears and the video effects are being used just every other second, while she's reciting paranoid nonsense about the oil spill she has most likely read in some conspiracy articles, that were sent to her by a mentally unstable follower (see my first post on page 3, i've mentioned this before).
While i have no doubt that the one who made this video was not aware of it, because he/she is so much used to these kind of things, all this transition stuff, the constant flow of words is a classic and obviously very succesful mind control/hypnosis tactic also known as 'flooding' (www.rickross.com for more information). Her monotone voice and the constant focus on her face make it all complete. Add in this 'reincarnation of something very important' story and there you have it. I see no difference between her and any other end-of-the-world guru.
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Newest video from couple of days ago that she "promotes" is about pole shifts as a fact and ofc as a prophecy from Mayans, by Drunvalo. I didn't watch it, couldn't. At the moment it seems to be way healthier to stay away all of that. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8vWBxi2xTVc&feature=related
She says: "very important about the pole shifts and 2012, what we need to know.. i trust and believe in brother drunvalo"
Oh and about her talks in Europe... She was in national radio program in Sweden... her "power" and effect and how she talks about "native shamans" is getting bit too big attention, if wanting to avoid giving wrong impression... It is kind of funny how she leaves the most radical things out in more official media and sounds more sane and intelligent and doesn't give the emotional "show" she does in "gatherings". Listened it earlier... It really shows how much she herself uses her mind to say exactly the right things to different people. She talks about normal life and her kids and everything to be convincing in national radio... Thing is that she still back ups her talks with elders and tribes, not in such a big proportion here than in some other talks tho. She even says that doubts herself too if she is a right person and the one people believe she is, but then ofc says that what she has been taught is absolutely true and she wont doubt that.
Here's the link to talks in radio: http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/radioevents/radio-events.html
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Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther
Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12 minutes/seconds into video)
"....within the year it will be common knowledge, and proven to you. It is an absolute truth. 2010 will be the most extraordinary year ever to have happenned on our planet. (pause) You will see things you could not possibly imagine, and I'm going to be happy to share with you several of these things. (pause) It is not easy to be a wisdom keeper because you have to say things like this to people and just pray that they are going to believe you because otherwise they are going to put you in a home somewhere (laughing) (pause) ....but I do find courage in knowing that the other wisdom keepers and I can talk together and give each other courage and say "It's gonna be ok". I carry the wisdom for Ninepipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato, and I am proud to sit here today and say that I am a wisdom keeper, and that sometimes I am able to swallow my fear so that I can do things like this. So if we understand that that first the wisdom keepers were asked in 2008 to understand that our ancestors had ancient truths, that they were all once here. And then we were asked to please understand and remember who you are, that you are the Great I AM. You are Tokashila. You are love and light and everything that is possible/ 2010 has brought a new calling for us to talk about. So I say to you now that what we are asked to talk to you about is for that, yes, now you remember who you are, and if you don't 'get on it', it is past 'time'. But now that you know you are God and Goddess, unify ourselves and create the world you wish to live in. This is the overriding message of the year, and this is what we will be talking about all over every nation, over 143 countries, over 8 million people. We will be teaching and saying this- fo everywhere and to everyone. Remember who you are. Now, create knowing that thought, your thoughts, your dreams, your daydreams your wishes your wants...the goodness in you can bring forth and manifest. You are your own Creator. You are God and Goddess. Start creating. Set the mind down. Think of what you want, and make it happen. You will see that you can bring into your reality all that you wish to create...this year. It is going to happen, and I will explain how......" (and so on)
(please excuse my spelling of names etc)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 4/10
(Starting at 3:21 minutes/seconds into video)
"Now I will tell you this, that in the year 2010, there will be discoveries made this year that will surpass even your highest expectations. We know for a fact that there is a place called Puma Puncu. And in this place these buildings are made more precisely than what we could do today with lasers or with diamonds. This city is made of stone that does not belong there and is more precisely built than what we could do today................
There is a place called Dendura, that was not built only by human hands. Modern lightbulbs are found there, that still work today, that are over 17,000 years old.
Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers.
Giza and Tikal...It will be proven without a shadow of a doubt, with science itself that these cities match each other down to the most minute detail. The pyramids are placed exactly, as, clear accross the globe you look at Giza, you look at Tikal and these buildings are exactly the same. Not only are these cities exactly the same, their triplet sister is on the Moon. This will be a proven fact.
Bolivia will also have many truths. Teohuican, a 17,000 year old city made out exactly as the solar system is. This will be proven in 'fact'.
Israel, under the Dome of the Rock, lies instructions for the ways for human beings to live. It also conteins information of ancient cities we know very little about. Ethiopia contains something almost more valuable than anything that is on this planet, and I have seen this with my own eyes. There, in a very small white church made of stone with white stucco, it is only one room, a blind man keeps guard over a box, and when this blind man dies, another blind person is placed inside, to keep care of this box. And inside this box are the ancient laws for humanity. Many religions believe it to be....something callled The Ark of the Covenant. It is very real, and it is sitting there today.
Many of these truths will be pouring out, and as they pour out life is going to change on this planet (shaking head) more rapidly than any of us can possibly imagine.
You will start to remember "Oh my Gosh! We could do all these things back then? Why can't we do them now?" Simply because we've forgotten it. It's time to remember. Truths are coming to our planet to tell us "Remember who you are", to prove to us you are capable of doing way more than you think possible, that you come from somewhere much larger than you think.
Some other truths are going to be about people we know the names of, but had no idea what they had accomplished in their lifetime. There is a man named Nikolai Tesla. What he has accomplished and what he knows and what he has done with his life is far more than people let on to know. The government says "yes he did" or "no he didn't". We have the power to change the weather, and this man knew the truth in how to do that. He's created something and knew something far vaster than, um, the government has let on to, but the government will not be able to contain this much longer. Watch for Nicolai Tesla. Learn about what he said he could do. It is an absolute fact.
Isaac Newton is another person that people kind of overlooked when he started talking nonsense. It wasn't nonsense! It was so nonsensical at the time, people couldn't hardly, they just kinda dismissed it as nonsense, craziness. But I tell you now, as we learn more about these things and what people have accomplished and what is really real, and cover-ups are no longer 'covered'. We will see, that he knew something about distance, time and space that science is only beginning to understand. Ancient cities are actually, um... "(end of video 5 of 10)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
(from beginning of video)
" If you look at time and space and angles, are placed exactly down to one degree of each other. This was no mistake, it was placed like that, um, because our ancient intelligence and our ancient knowing helped build these cities! And in these cities are ancient truths which will also be coming back.
There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010, and I want to share some of them that the, uh, is it - overall, um, consensus I guess from the wisdom keepers of what's going to happen. What I would like to say first and foremost is that the planet right now, the Earth is fat and ripened!, and ready to give up all of its secrets.
All of the secrets will be exposed.
Government cover-ups will be exposed.
Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed. Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!
Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide.
New discoveries will lead to ways of knowing, or um, helping our bodies in which bones can be strong, much stronger, and healed, and we will live an average life after this knowledge of well past 90. Stem-cell research will boost such an amazing, um, scientific explosion of help and knowledge for the human body science itself will be left in awe.
Filthy waters will be cleaned. Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed.
This year is the year, if you take nothing else away from this know that this year is the year you are supposed to 'get it!'. You're supposed to 'get it!'. You're supposed to remember who you are, and when you do that, you 'get it'. Everything is going to be uncovered. And when things become uncovered you start realising we've been living in a fog, and you realise that your capabilities, your capacities are much larger than you thought.
There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. (cue the music......). It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly. There are amazing things happening on our planet that will solve many many problems. Even for a moment! think of what we could do with this technology, if it's taken out of the hands of power and government and religion, and placed in the hands of people who live from the heart. Think of what we could create." (end of video 6of10)
(brackets-mine)
There isn't much left of 2010 for all that to happen!
- Spandex
edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)
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:o :o
Well, you can also look at it like this: only five weeks left to prove Kiesha wrong.
OR - if she is right - December will be the most fascinating month of my life!! ;)
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Hi Freija,
True, "2010 December 2010 will be the most extraordinary year month ever to have happenned on our planet."
It amazes me how this just isn't being mentioned on her forum, it's almost as if her followers aren't really excited that it will all be happening, not only in a year, but one month!
In one month, "Everything is going to be uncovered". I suppose that includes her followers finding out how ridiculous this is.
I particularly look foreward to knowing about the ancient city on the Moon That is exactly the same as the allegedly identical cities of Giza and Tikal. But maybe I'm not understanding her correctly, maybe she really meant to say 'ancient cities' or just 'pyramids', or just that the way they match up to the pattern of star systems works exactly the same......
Her words:
"Giza and Tikal...It will be proven without a shadow of a doubt, with science itself that these cities match each other down to the most minute detail. The pyramids are placed exactly, as, clear accross the globe you look at Giza, you look at Tikal and these buildings are exactly the same. Not only are these cities exactly the same, their triplet sister is on the Moon. This will be a proven fact."
MY prediction for 2010 is that some of her die-hard followers will use that sort of reasoning to cover over her errors in their minds so that they can keep sucking up what to them is like honey that drips from her mouth. It's nice to know you have power over your world and that you're a God/Goddess, especially when the world is in such a mess. That's why people will skip over her blatant errors or not even register them in their minds. It's selective hearing."
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/GIZAvsTIKAL.jpg)
These are not exactly the same down to the minutest detail!. Her claim is wildly untrue!
"Selective hearing is a way of describing the tendency of some people to ignore things that they don’t want to hear. It is not a physiological condition, as they are physically hearing the words, but their minds choose not to acknowledge the words. In many cases, the conscious mind does not appear to receive the information, so it is different than an active ignoring of speech. Instead, it is a sort of selective inattention that may be done consciously or subconsciously."
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-selective-hearing.htm
- Spandex
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We know for a fact that there is a place called Puma Punku. And in this place these buildings are made more precisely than what we could do today with lasers or with diamonds. This city is made of stone that does not belong there and is more precisely built than what we could do today................
The nearest quarry is about 6 miles/10 km away. Nevertheless a very interesting monument which makes you question how primitive these ancient peoples really were.
Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers.
She is most likely referring to the Antikythera mechanism. It's an ancient mechanical computer designed to calculate astronomical positions and it has been found in 1900. There indeed is only one month left to suddenly find several more of these. Good luck, divers and archaeologists, you're gonna need it.
Sounds like Kiesha Crowther has watched the first Ancient Aliens episode on History Channel and decided to spice things up even more by making a prophecy about it, as both Puma Punku, the Antikythera mechanism and the carving of what looks like an ancient light bulb are discussed in that episode.
Ethiopia contains something almost more valuable than anything that is on this planet, and I have seen this with my own eyes. There, in a very small white church made of stone with white stucco, it is only one room, a blind man keeps guard over a box, and when this blind man dies, another blind person is placed inside, to keep care of this box. And inside this box are the ancient laws for humanity. Many religions believe it to be....something callled The Ark of the Covenant. It is very real, and it is sitting there today.
Interesting how she uses Graham Hancock's story in 'The Sign and The Seal' without paying any tribute to him, but rather presenting it as if she has found it by herself. While adding a spin of her own to this story, of course, like how only blind people are chosen to guard this church, and how this box contains the ancient laws of humanity. Have to say, i haven't read any of his books yet, just seen some videos, but i do think Graham Hancock has some very interesting theories that are not getting the amount of attention they deserve. Sadly, they're often misused by people like Kiesha Crowther. Also very interesting how she has seen this with her own eyes, if nobody is allowed inside this church. She happens to be so omniscient and omnipresent that she also witnessed EISCAT's Norway Spiral experiment with her own eyes. Kiesha, if you would only just share your secrets of teleportation with the world, there would be no need for cars, no need for airplanes, no need for passenger ships and what else! You could save the environment!
There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. (cue the music......). It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly.
Sounds like some hypothetical moon energy machine straight out of a Dolores Cannon book. Which she has seen with her own eyes of course.
After all these posts, i'm amazed at how stupid she is. You know what else is keeping her followers from questioning the things she says? Her habits of promoting paranoid, psychosis-inducing New Age beliefs that you alone create your world with your thoughts and feelings, that you alone determine what becomes reality in your world. And, of course, how she is absolutely certain that only New Agers people who are 'living in the heart', a small percentage of the world's population, will survive the year 2012.
The 'Tribe of Many Colors', with the talk about how there will be a massive 'cleanse', qualifies as an online New Age doomsday cult, which, with every speech and workshop, is gradually expanding into real-life. I wonder what's next, small communities gathered under the guise of love and light? AFAIK there already is one in my country, a group of unemployed squatters with New Age beliefs, who found Crowther's message and decided to shift their focus to that. They have already hosted some Tribe of Many Colors gatherings and have the intention to start some kind of festival. They have good intentions, they're just following the wrong person. When everything was relatively small and innocent, no 2012 doomsday talk, i actually signed up for one of these gatherings, but it didn't feel right... glad i decided not to go.
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Kiesha Crowther claims:
"There is a place called Dendera, that was not built only by human hands."
Here is Dendera:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/dendera.jpg)
Yes, Dendera exists, this is a fact, but not exactly breaking news! It wouldn't be a great surprise to know that it wasn't built only by human hands, and that animals were used to help pull stones etc. But she seems to me to be implying is that there is some involvement from non human intelligence. What/who this is she doesn't say, which isn't a surprise. Has she ever elaborated on this or are her 'sources' of information just throwing her crumbs, lol.
Kiesha Crowther claims:
Modern lightbulbs are found there, that still work today, that are over 17,000 years old.
Here is what she is referring to:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/lamp.jpg)
Forgive me for being picky, but this is NOT a modern lightbulb that still works after 17,000 years. This is a stone relief that is interpreted by some "experts" as a lamp. Instead of giving the literal truth, she gives the impression to her audience that there are actual lightbulbs that still work after thousands of years. If there are any actual lightbulbs at the site, there is one month for them to be discovered!
Where does the 17,000 year figure come form again?
"the earliest extant building in the compound today is the Mammisi raised by Nectanebo II – last of the native pharaohs (360-343 BC)." - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendera_Temple_complex
Again, what she says is erroneous elaboration on a topic which is old news. Giving the impression it's some truth that is coming out in 2010 is untrue. These aren't the sayings of a 'wisdom-keeper' imo.
-Spandex
edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)
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Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther
Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12 minutes/seconds into video)
"....I carry the wisdom for Nine Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato....
This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.
Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.
If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.
I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.
---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4 (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4
Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.
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Thanks, Crescent, for giving details about where Kiesha appropriated her information about the Ark of the Covenant.
Here is a video on youtube about it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY&playnext=1&list=PL37B5FB8EE6746B93&index=29 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOqLpT6HKzY&playnext=1&list=PL37B5FB8EE6746B93&index=29)
instead of paying to hear this from her 'talks', people can listen for free on youtube!
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Spandex
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Hi educatedindian,
Thank you for the proper spelling for Ninepipes. I've edited the post so that it is now correct.
I apologise if the other names are incorrect, I just spelled tham like they sounded to me.
I don't know why someone would be so cagey about their history. Someone who is proud of their heritage would be alot more open, especially if they are someone who their tribe has been waiting for for 400 years, and now has the job of speaking for a prophesied new tribe. Jesus for example has the female and male lineage on record going right back to Adam and Eve (at least it's there, wether we believe it or not).
-Spandex
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I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato
One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.
However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...
As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.
Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.
When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'.... :o )
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I'm a newbie here and not sure if this post is appropriate, so my apologies if this is not the case, and I will take it down.
This is directed towards those who wish to REALLY 'get it'.
It won't cost you any money!
To all who are reading this thread, please take the time to read the posts and keep an open mind. If you feel negative energy, don't switch the channel as if it will hurt your reality. Be brave. Sometimes the truth hurts. Remember the saying "wolves in sheeps clothing"? Think! Don't invest your energy in following this person, and don't give her your time and energy by promoting her movement.
Her movement (and don't kid yourself that it isn't her that it has been designed to centre around) is presently in its early stages, but it allready has quite a momentum building. Why? Because she feeds people what they want to hear!
She mixes in alot of topics that appeal to her target audience like forbidden history, star-people visiting Earth and their involvement over our history, government cover-ups and the witholding of vital technologies which would create a better world, spirituality, positive thinking and the power of thought to co-create reality, and so on....
None of these things are an indication that she is who she says she is, and any good con artist can rattle off this type of script, and talk at length. No matter how attractive her presentation is to you, or how much she engenders a heartfelt response from you with her touching way of relating her message, think before you leap. Not all that glitters is gold.
"We are the ones we have been waiting for!"
"We are the Rainbow Warriors" ('The Tribe of Many Colours')
"The Ancestors Have Returned!"
"You are god/goddess!"
"Remember who you are"
If any of these statements resonate with you, despite who relly said them originally (which is worth researching wether they are all genuine!), then you should also realise that you don't need to be making an attachment to anyone as your shaman.
So if you think/know you're a god or one of the ancestors reincarnated, you should also know that every single other person on this planet is your equal, right? What else do you need? You don't need anyone to be telling you what to do. You know what to do. It's simple. Try to be a good person in thoughts, words and deeds, and generally be kind to others in your daily life. Also, why do you need anyone to tell you how to prepare for some future event? What are you afraid of? There is nothing you need to do any more than any other of the creatures on Earth. Do you think that Creator/ess (or however you concieve the Divine Source) doesn't care just as much about all creatures? The best way to raise your vibrations if that's your concern is to go about being kind to people in a practical way in your daily life. That's my opinion anyway. Faith without works is dead. Holding crystals and sending healing etc is all great, and meditating is good for you, also raising your energy to be attuned to love........but it isn't going to turn you into a light being. You are allready that, so is an ant and a tree. The people peddling ways to help you ascend rely on you not allready knowing that, and that you have been given all you need to make it through whatever the universe presents you with without their expert help, knowledge or channelled messages etc. Take responsibility and go to the source yourself. Middlemen/women will only provide you with distractions, disillusionment and perhaps an emptier bank account.
You certainly don't need to be promoting logos emblazoned with 'Little Grandmother' as someone who others need to be turning to as a source/channel of truth and guidance. Any of you with any sense can see how wrong this feels if you haven't become a devotee allready and invested your energy.
-Spandex
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Well said, Spandex. And it pretty much goes along with my own thoughts.
What strikes me when you listen to these people is the way the present obvious facts, norms and values - like the things you (hopefully) learn as a kid: be good to each other!
If you just listen to the overall message - and the quotes you posted - it is getting more and more scary and extremely cultlike.
Kiesha obviously tries to create a group of godlike superhumans - or rather, convincing these people that they are above everyone else.
"We are the ones we have been waiting for!" I vaguely remember someone else dreaming about a "master race", some guy with a funny moustache...(not Charlie Caplin) :)
I am really worried since I have friends deeply involved with this woman. And my attempts to make them open their eyes have failed as they have been told to be very careful of outsiders trying to mislead them. It doesn´t feel good. At all.
When I had the honour of spending time with Chief Looking Horse, he repeatedly said: "In the coming years, we will see more and more false prophets. Be very careful...." I think he is right on the spot. (As usual)
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Dear Madam and Sirs,
I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.
This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings??? like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.
I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.
Arvols comments - there will come false prophets is as sure as the sun. They have allways been here and there will come more in all fields of life. From false businesspeople and politicians to plastic indians - Please have some fun and see it and teach your children to see the difference between real stuff and plastic.
I also know people selling coaching based on indian beliefs - but they leave out the credential to where they got it from,... Even Benjamin Franklin wrote the American constitution - "stealing" quite alot from The Great law of the 6 Nations, I have been told. Also Marx and Engells had studied the same law. And I believe that is fantastic - you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!
I will say that the newage movement is not my cup of tea - I do not see much energy there - not much hard work - just a lot of fancy colors, and posters for money making salvation. That is also nothing new.
I tried to sell flowers next to the road when I was a kid. I believe this newage thing is at the same level. Kids stof!!
Go and see a Kiesha Crowther show your-self and get 1. hand knowledge of what is going on. It is not dangerous. All the videos you refer to are edited and different from the show.
I believe most the people that come to the shows are just plain curious and have a sound mind. Of course it is nice to see and meet other people that have had strange experiences and live a spiritual life - after all - that life style can be found in any culture - even the Scandinavian - even in the middle of a city. Personally I have seen lots of strange things since I was a kid - I have never been initiated by anyone - except the nature and animals around me and Danish Radio and Television. - and I do know some very fine gentile people among ordinay indians - but in all respect I do not drop their names, - and in my daily work within the mediaindustry - it is also considered childish to drop names - lack of professional skill, - for all that counts is hard, hard work and respect. Even you totally disagree, I believe that you must show respect and not fall in the same pit you just critisized. I have learned this from my parents and through-out my prof. media world and been teaching that philosophy in the industry.
Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.
I think, - however not to sound like a sour dog, that this homepage is very important, - because it is an important search platform to keep the most insane con men and women out of business and give naive souls some facts. I have personally come across a few of conmedicinemen them in the 80´s. With all kinds of "holy " names they usually call themselves, but they are to "see through" for most people. Only young girls usually get blown into bed - while they wait in line - in between ceremonies:)
Well in my own industry Radio/ TV Media World, - it is filled up with con men and women. The only thing to do is to make a better world and show what YOU belive in and if you have someting to show others you better work your ass of - in full respect for your audience -the people you come from - in all respect for do not waste their time , - with either con or childish bullshit!
I Do respect your work on this homepage very much, - Thank You for letting me talk!
Niels Worsøe, Copenhagen, Denmark.
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Hi Niels,
Welcome to the forums and thanks for your insight. I have to say i personally think the forum members here do show people something that's part of a better path... a path which includes using your mind, doing background research and applying discernment. If people here would constantly have to present this research they're doing about frauds as a sweet sugary wrapped candy, it would take a lot of extra energy. It would in a way be a lie to themselves, as people here would constantly have to detach themselves from how they personally feel about these situations, which is often angry, or a feeling of having been let down. Would anyone make a website like this if this person feels positive about everything and sees all these things that are going on as harmless childs play? Nah. There is a very good and very real reason for the Lakota (Sioux) people's declaration of war against the exploiters of their spirituality. And i think that if there's hardly any criticism about a 'spiritual teacher' or about some community, by ex-followers or ex-inhabitants, it's either an extremely, extremely rare case (like the Dalai Lama), or something fishy. I agree that people here are doing a good thing, and personally i feel much better by sharing my views, spelling out the facts, and contributing to exposing who people like Kiesha Crowther really are.
I have no doubt that Kiesha Crowther makes some jokes in her workshops and speeches, and that there seems to be a good mood of coming together. But i personally don't see what's fun about her telling people (in a completely 100% convinced way) the hoax that a large percentage of the world's population will die in 2012, i don't see what's fun about lying about all parts of her supposed tribal recognition by indigenous nations, what's fun about making up a BS prophecy about the year 2010 in one of her expensive talks, after watching some sensational tv-show. I have trouble seeing what's fun about promoting paranoia and potentially putting some unstable followers in danger of a psychosis by reciting ridiculous and wildly untrue conspiracy, disaster & armageddon theories she has read somewhere on the internet, all the while presenting them as if her 'ancestor spirits and elders' have told her to do so. And although this is not done by Kiesha Crowther but by her website admin, i do not see what's fun about having my name and the city where i live published in a locked topic on her Tribe forums, as a result of my posts here on the NAFPS boards. I believe you when you say you're stable enough not to be swept away by these lies she tells to people, but i know for an absolute fact that this does not count for everyone of the people who attend her talks and workshops and watch her videos.
These people are often vulnerable as they often feel disillusioned & depressed with the world, and are looking for some kind of hope. Kiesha Crowther tells them the kind of things they want to hear, but no matter how friendly she may be and how innocent she may appear to be, she is a delusional and horribly misled fake who simply tells way too many lies about herself and about the world.
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Um. no. Medicine or whatever name a person gives to that humbled gift is not a source for personal ego such as 'name dropping'.
I've not met any person who has met true "medicine" that would speak of it at a cocktail party or with any in an attempt to build
their own image. The only people who speak like that are people trying to convince others of their self perceived greatness.
There is a huge difference between hearing someone say something wise, and then sharing that with someone else, and taking
a piece of a peoples' religion and using that as a means of self promotion. Especially when the piece they are using is already false
because they got it from some other fake, doing the same thing they are.
If it is part of a religion to convert others, then by all means, go and spread the word, share with others. But if the religion
and belief is NOT to do that, then why expect the members of that belief system to over step what they believe in order to
do what humans want? No one would.
People seem to think they are 'owed' a belief. They are not. No Creator/God owes anyone anything. And NA's do not owe
the public a belief either. Especially when the people they have been kind and generous enough to share with, have then
taken it and used it to profit, or claim to 'know' it when they don't, and use it in falseness.
Instead, people steal bits and pieces and make it sound as though the gilded doors are standing open, just waiting for them,
and that by simply believing in their minds, somehow, it makes it all real. If they believe they are ascended, then they are.
There is no reality in this.
Some person with psychological issues makes up a bunch of hooey. Then they go on utube and spout like they are
some great knower, and gobble up all the vulnerable people who do not know that what they are being taught and
told is fake, and not real. Kiesha, and people like her, rake in the money. And the people rake in a false belief, that
at some point in time, will crash. Hopefully, before they die so that it is not too late for them to actually live a true life.
None of this is fun. As for ridiculing. I don't see where anyone here ridicules the followers of such jerks. I see understanding
of the plight, but no one is really able to stop it. Except to put information on a internet board and hope they somehow stumble
on it and read it and open their eyes to the lies they've been told.
Kiesha is not who she claims, and what she teaches is made up. What she states is lies. And this, is not fun.
You say it is not dangerous? What implications do you not think are dangerous? Fooling with peoples minds and beliefs?
Perhaps you equate danger only to physical harm. Psychological harm is just as dangerous.
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Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.
Let's get this straight. You are claiming that white people know what it's like to be on the receiving end of racism if they grow up on a farm and encounter snobbery?
Are you trolling or are you really so stupid as to believe this is true?
I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.
Do you have even the slightest idea just how ridiculous you sound?
Who the hell are you to state what is dangerous and what is not? Just what are your qualifications in this respect? Serious question.
You claim not to be a fool or a sheep and yet your comments demonstrate otherwise.
you cannot own wisdom it belongs to everybody. - as long as you DO NOT MAKING IT YOURS. That is stealing from the universe in my opinion!
This is an outrageous statement to make in the context the cultural appropriation. You are pretty much stating that NDNs are unable to own their own spiritual traditions because they never owned their traditions in the first place as "they belong to the everyone in the universe". You would not be the first white person to believe that it is impossible to steal from NDNs, as google will demonstrate. Just search for "native American" and "cultural genocide" to check out the historical roots of your odious proclamations.
Instaed of rediculing people of their feelings and hopes - please redirect them and use fun and kindness and show them a way out. Share with them your ways and how to get on a new path.
You're incredible you are. You are honestly suggesting to NDN people who are hurt and angry about cultural appropriation, fraud and theft, to not get angry but instead to "share their ways" with a bunch of deluded newagers who foolishly follow a con woman?
The irony of the situation is that many NDN people have very generously given their time and energy, free of charge, to warn people about frauds like Crowther and her ilk on this very website and you response is not to thank them, or even to give serious consideration to their concerns but to dismiss them contemptuously, for example:
I have read through most of your comments to Kiesha Crowther. I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!!
then you go on to say
I Do respect your work on this homepage very much,
It seems to me that you have a lot to learn about respect as your posts here are incredibly disrespectful, narcissistic and just plain racist.
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I do think however you are way out of "your conspiracy minds"!! I agree some of this - I see as "name dropping", - who she knows and family lines is childish but very common among all folks in all kinds of social environment - just go to a cocktail party in the media industry. Some of you people have the same tendency - just by knowing and are "close to" or have travelled with - been in the shadow off....a famous medicine person.
Ahem. You should perhaps learn a few bits and pieces about other cultures before you come dashing along with such a bucket full of cultural insensivity....
What you, as arrogantly as incorrectly, chose to describe as name dropping has a very valid cultural background in ndn nations: individuals will introduce themselves by naming their relatives and ancestors. It is not rare for persons who have just met to continue with this until they find someone they are both related to, or at least both know.
Indian country is fairly small, so names will be known by many, if not all, even if they never met person in question personally. So names are not being mentioned to impress – far from it. Whatever the culture in your special subculture of media does and doesn't do and why may not be generalized.
Asking for Crowther's ancestors is also important in establishing whether she is what she claims. If she was ndn, her parents, grandparents, great-grandparents would be known to people. Ndn people, to be precise. Also Crowther would be known if she was what she claimed.
This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings??? like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.
Apparently you come from a part of the world where people do +not know about racism.... Your claim that villagers may be met by certain stereotypes and prejudice from townspeople – you're certain you live in the same century as we do? Perhaps the media world does not...
However, I'll let you into a secret: you are speaking of villagers whose arses will be as lilywhite as yours and mine. Therefore we're not speaking of racism – a Danish villager may learn the ways of your fancy media world and thus be accepted. Ndn people, or black people, may do whatever they want, they will always remain what they are to racists who believe that the darker the brown, the inferior a person will be. This is something they cannot escape. So, no – to experience racism, being a Danish villager will not do.
In your above paragraph, I do not see any criticism regarding ndns having been „reinvented in the Western world“, as if it was a sort of birthright Europeans had to do with and to other ethnic groups whatever they felt like. Well, tough sh*t, as much as many of us Europeans may crave for such a birthright, we never had it, we don't presently, and we never will.
It is, therefore, inappropriate for a white bloke bursting in and attempting to give lectures on what you don't have an idea about. Your phrase „they are human beings like +most people are“ does leave quite some space for interpretation, BTW – just like most?, not like +all people are? Not like everybody else? So who will be more human than ndns? Your sentence has a certain odour to it...
Which is matched by the pomposity with which you assert you are waaay to superior to fall for whatever Crowther or the likes of her come selling. However, it is your kettle of fish if you do or whether you are prepared to listen. What you fail to see, or probably prefer to ignore, is that Crowther and her ilk come selling a spirituality which is not theirs in the very first place. But, the true white people they are, they believe they are entitled to grab whatever they feel like exploiting. This is just a new version of colonialism – and since lands, resources etc were already stolen long ago, this is what is left. Additionally, by their mimicking they will twist and disfigure what they steal, and they will mix ndn spiritually with all kinds of other stolen ideas. Like Crowther does. I suppose her assertion that her audience are gods will appeal to many white persons who feel unoriented and alienated in their own society, as many do here in Europe, and fill them with a new, albeit inappropriate feeling of grandiosity (again). As probably does Crowther when she falsely claims ndn descent, being a medicine woman, and when she even attempts to start 'her own' tribe.
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Hi Niels - I´m across the boarder in Sweden.
I did have alot on my mind and was typing away, but people on this board have already said most of it.
Just one more thing....
Please have some fun and see it......
Did you just tell Native Americans to have som fun while experiencing cultural genocide?
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To be totally honest here, the tribe of many colors thing might not seem dangerous, but at least for me personally to get caught into it was the worse thing that could happen to me. It left me hanging for a while in very thin thread. It was probably the sweetest message when I first heard it. I mean, I have been depressed most of my life and it was the first thing that actually made me think that there is something positive in the world (the very first message that is). I am usually very good at detaching myself from "gurus" and just objectively look the messages, but maybe it is because i usually check the "messenger" first before believing any of the message... well in this case ofc, the messenger looked very sincere and her message comforted me at first... Then it started to change and I got confused. It didn't sound right to me, I am quite down to earth person and love nature related stuff and have been studying all kinds of "earth religions", so the new age stuff felt wrong to me, I got over it in my teens... In any case, it was something that made me think if everything was what it seems. Then someone posted this site somewhere, and the base of my "happiness" was shaken pretty badly. When you build on lies, your world will come down at some point, I guess... when I noticed that the doubt was right, I also noticed that I have no reason to believe any of the things this woman is representing as "truths". Also, what kind of person feel need to back up her truths with fake background and "recognitions"? What kind of person, after saying that the teachings are free and she is just sharing for greater good, starts to have workshops that cost a lot, while people still work for her for free to get her message out? What kind of person sells spirituality and things that are known all over already as absolute truths? What kind of person feels that she has right to represent more or less every indigenous people in the world with her new age theories and prophecies? And so on... At first it was all shame and hate and disappointment and feeling of being left alone in the dark again... I actually deleted my account from this forum once because i had difficulties to swallow the truth and I too felt that it is somehow "giving energy to the negative" (blah :p), if I come here. Well... after trying to build my own spirituality anew again from what I had left and what I had learned (it is quite hard to get it that we "white people" really do think that we own the world and need to find more respect for things, even tho we might not like it :p)... i actually came to conclusion that this site was probably the best thing that has ever happened to me. Not a gentle wake up, but at least I start to have an idea what might be more important in my life at the moment. And also, hard lesson, to build on more steady foundation, on things that actually have value in life, that are more true. Also think I will do my backup researches better from now on. :p
In short, I got hurt, I got frustrated, disappointed, sad, angry, almost depressed and was really close to rebel against the very idea that there is any goodness in the world, because of this one fake ruining the good message (which ofc would be in healthier forms in other places, most of her "famous" sayings that all quote from her are from other people too...) from me. And it started from the moment when I realized that there isn't anyway to think otherwise than the "guru" and her "tribe" think, if you are too loud with your disagreement, especially since you are told that you can't judge what others think, but ofc, you are wrong in this. :) And ofc, you are supposed to believe without doubt in the UFOs and conspiracies and pseudo science, or you are at very least, not very wanted conversation companion, or other option, you will get huge wave of disapproval on you or get ignored/ cut off. So you are not appreciated as yourself, but have to fake all the time to stay "superior" in awesomeness. :) Otherwise you are told to "change the channel". :) (which makes me think how all these apocalyptic theories Kiesha talks nowadays are not giving the energy for negative, shouldn't she change the channel too?)
Anyway, all this stuff she "creates" is irrelevant to good living and getting happy or getting along with other people. Maybe the reason you aren't getting along with the "normal" people and need to change channel from them in the first place is, that you want to be superior to them... "Tribe" creates huge amount of people that think they are going to be the only ones worth while. Ofc there is many who really get the good part of the message as it should be too, but many are there, since it is the easy fix and salvation and puts you in the group of "awesome" people who will get further than the rest, bit like nazis and all. ;p
Ok, wasn't short. Anyway, her "teachings" weren't healthy for me in the end, am happy that I am out now that the "messages" get even more crazy... I started to doubt myself and my own worth since I couldn't be the ideal "triber" for a moment. Happily, I have always been bit of a rebel when it comes to any sort of people who are trying to tell me what to think, so... Think I finally learnt my lesson tho, better to look inside for real wisdom and check the claims when someone is too good to be true.
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Niels, first of all, welcome to the forum, and thanks for telling us of your experience. It is valuable for us to have firsthand accounts. I hope you'll take time to read the criticisms and think about them.
I don't see any need for me to repeat what others have said already. I just wanted to ask how you heard about Crowther and what made you think anything she said was genuine. You say that you weren't taken in or harmed by her, and that most others weren't also.
I have to wonder then, why did you go back two more times? How much did you pay? Wouldn't your time and money have been better spent doing something practical, like giving your time and money to a charity or cause that works to end the problems she discusses? Time spent on aiding the poor or the environment for example.
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TYVM Saga for being so frank, open, and sincere. I have felt the same way and experienced pretty much the same things and it helps to hear it from someone else too.
I was lucky enough to come accross this site (NAFPS) on my second day after watching what she had to say and feeling how much it 'resonated' with me. Also, I have a habit to selectively hear, which is a result of childhood abuse as well as suffer from depression. Life isn't all rosy as mush as people 'change the channel. That used to be called 'putting the blinkers on'.
Because the message I heard was overwhelmingly positive, and presented with gush-loads of love-vibes (she can be very charming can't she!), I was willing to 'overlook' inconsistencies, and put them to the back of my mind until I knew more about her. If it hadn't been for a site like NAFPS I wouldn't have been so able to follow the trail of falsehoods, or read how she hasn't been recognised by any genuine Native Americans. That's what initially did it for me. If she isn't recognised she hasn't got a leg to stand on and all else is based on a lie.
There were are several things she said that didn't sit right with me too (for instance her prophecies for 2010), but again, selective hearing is the con-artists best friend, and everyone is human right? Maybe she was being given false info....that disn't necessarily mean she was fake, right?... And this is what is so concerning. The type of people that will be hurt because of these fakers are people who have suffered and are most vulnerable, which is people who have been hurt before and have the trait to 'bottle away' the faults in others in order to hear what they need/want to hear, which is that the world can be a better place and we are all divine at heart and 'all will be well', no matter how bad it seems. It isn't unusual to go to great lengths, consciously and/or subconsciously in order to minimise Cognitive Dissonance (the uncomfortable state when reality doesn't conform to what you hold to be true.)
Those who play on peoples emotions and set themselves up as having 'special knowledge' or a special channel to the wisdom of the ages, but are actually rooted in false claims, are actually the enemy of truth and love, no matter how seductive their general message is, or how much truth it contains. That's exactly how cults work. If the message didn't resonate with a high percentage of truth, they couldn't draw in as many devotees. If people don't think they are devotees, they should read the posts.....Keisha this, Little Grandmother that, people are literally hanging on every word she says.
- Spandex
edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)
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Saga, I hope it's ok to quote several parts of your post separated with dots. I think it's crucial that people who think it's all ok as long as the message makes people happy understand the extreme danger in people setting themselves up as 'teachers' when they are actually rooted in deception.
Some of your words from your post on page 10:
".......... the messenger looked very sincere and her message comforted me at first......
Then it started to change and I got confused. It didn't sound right to me,........
Then someone posted this site somewhere, and the base of my "happiness" was shaken pretty badly.
When you build on lies, your world will come down at some point, I guess... .....
At first it was all shame and hate and disappointment and feeling of being left alone in the dark again.........."
And thank goodness we found this site here, and had the capacity to be here and interact!
I haven't come accross very many people who really understand how shattering it can be for people who have depression and are spiritually inclined who are seeking 'like minded' spirits, to go through this sort of see-saw- of excitement/happiness/unity feeling and disillusionment/desolation/abandonment feelings.
I know that if I had been at my worst, which was several years back, and had spent more time believing and putting energy into the movement, then to find it fake and go through those negative withdrawal symptoms......it would have been a very bad thing for me as one of my coping mechanisms was cutting and burning myself in order to release the natural pain killers that give the feeling of peace. Now I just get angry because I know that there are many people who get hurt by con-artists who are just as vulnerable and will find it a long and painful road back to regaining their connection with hope, light and belief in love.
- Spandex
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Kiesha predicts:
"Places in Greece will be found with ancient computers."
(this is to happen in 2010)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 4/10
The prediction can be heard @ 4:42 min:sec here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFdwKiXuHk&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjFdwKiXuHk&feature=related)
What immediately springs to mind? I know what sprang to mine, lol........Ancient computers? Maybe from Atlantis!
I mean, it's a pretty wild sounding claim, and coming from someone who claims to have special knowledge passed on to her from spirit, they would sure know where stuff is hidden away by the ancestors.
Anyway, heres the sort of image I had in my mind, and I can't help thinking others might have had the same type of idea from this one startling sentence Kiesha just drops in to the list of amazing revelations with no further explanation:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/parthenoncomputer.jpg)
The truth is that what Kiesha prophesied has allready happenned, which would explain where she got the idea from in the first place:
*(Crescent pointed this out in an earlier post at page 9 , Reply #134)*
It was recovered in 1900–01 from the Antikythera wreck,[3] but its complexity and significance were not understood until decades later.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/antikythera.jpg)
Astronomy Picture of the Day
2006 December 5
Explanation: What is it? It was found at the bottom of the sea aboard an ancient Greek ship. Its seeming complexity has prompted decades of study, although many of its functions remained unknown. Recent X-rays of the device have now confirmed the nature of the Antikythera mechanism, and discovered several surprising functions. The Antikythera mechanism has been discovered to be a mechanical computer of an accuracy thought impossible in 80 BC, when the ship that carried it sunk. Such sophisticated technology was not thought to be developed by humanity for another 1,000 years. Its wheels and gears create a portable orrery of the sky that predicted star and planet locations as well as lunar and solar eclipses. The Antikythera mechanism, shown above, is 33 centimeters high and similar in size to a large book.
http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap061205.html
-Spandex
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I was in denial a long time with the whole business, mostly with how much it did affect me after I finally was able to let myself think that it is really real that she isn't what she says she is. And the message is going so strong all around that I occasionally still think that maybe I am the one who is wrong. But I am getting my own world back together and the own thoughts where they should be, so getting easier to find what I need inside and not outside and finding my own truths and the truth of compassion and love in more practical levels and actually helping people. Of course it was pretty neat to think I am superior for a moment and think that I'd be above some things that are part of life. Which is quite huge attraction in "tribe's" message to many people. :p I have to say that I rather deal with people who are honest in their disagreements and not liking me than people that slap on the face with "I create my own life, so I am right here and love to you too", when everything screams that they are doing that to feel superior because they aren't coming down to your level and actually discuss and share opinions, no matter who is right or wrong. :)
Anyway, poor people are still paying to see someone that isn't what they are paying to see, which makes her (and practically anyone who sells insta fix spirituality) a paracite feeding on people's needs...
More I have made my own research around the subjects she now uses as parts of her speeches, ALL of the info has been out there to tap into for a while, some of it for a loooooong time, and since the "spiritual scenes" seems to be linked to each other (and to conspiracy sites), most of the info is repeated in many places at the same time as well. Which ofc makes it feel more true. And since most of the people have just recently "awakened", they have no idea what information is old and what is new and where it comes from.
"we must be the change, we want to see in the world" -Mahatma Gandhi
"Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity" - Vietnam war times slogan, not sure from who originally
"it is none of my business what others may or may not think or say of me." or “What other people think about me is not my business.” Been used for ages as well... Michael J Fox, Andrew Kudiacik, Wayne Dyer....
Most of what she says is stated in somewhere else before her (and it is not in native american lore or tradition), not to mention that pretty big part of the humanity/science stuff comes from one source that she had linked herself in her fb profile couple of years ago...
EDIT: Oh and lots of my friends are totally under her influence too, they are changing the channel from all of the constructive critic towards her or the fact that they actually are being influenced (most are really strongly claiming that all that they do is following their own heart, which tells that Kiesha got it right of course, and then quote her word to word like she is the one telling absolute truths in the world, I used to do that too. :)) or the fact that her message is "borrowed" from many other sources... Some actually go that far that they make sure to delete any comments from their worship messages, if they are not in line with their own or Kiesha's thoughts or are telling that there would be something to consider in the message... How can you have a real conversation with a person who think that if you say something they feel isn't in line with the "teachings" or is "negative", they don't have to listen or consider it at all and it can be safely ignored? It is actually quite funny how many things hit this negative list, more or less all that make the "ego" threatened in person. :)
I asked Kiesha in the beginning, if she meant that we need to follow our own heart (the way I saw it), or her heart and her message and the way it told us to be (the way most of others seemed to think)... I never got answer, if not counting the little bit frustrated post in tribe forum (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/after-scandinavia-trip.html) that told that we are equals, she just is the one that tells us the message and we need to listen with our hearts if it is true. Does anyone else see conflict here btw? In saying that we are all equals and then reminding of the "all knowing, connected with the spirit world and ancestors and recognized by all the indigenous people" title and the important message? I see it now, didn't before... It's so subtle in some cases and when you want to hear only the good things...
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Hello everybody,
I am happy I found this forum when I searched for information on Kiesha Crowther on Google. I was wondering if I would be able to find something negative as I felt confused after watching one of her videos that are now flooding the Czech Republic, too. Someone is taking the time and effort to translate and add Czech subtitles to them and I keep running into them on Facebook as well as in chain e-mail. People seem to embrace them without any judgment.
Like Saga and Spandex, I too was deeply touched by some of the (unrevelatory) truths, such as the need for being respectful to Mother Earth and animals. On the other hand, I found it disturbing that such obvious things moved me to tears, while others sounded, well, strange, to say the least. I thought - have I been hypnotized here? At the same time she reminded me of the American TV evangelists, only using a more modern means, youtube.
I also find it disturbing how people go all crazy about her. It may all result from a well meant search for deeper truths about life but that is no excuse for not using sound judgment. We really are naive and gullible - and it is dangerous.
I know that a similar thought has been said in one of the previous posts - she came to my mind immediately after I read this passage from a book by the contemporary Czech scientist and thinker Vaclav Cilek (which I consider important to share regardless of whether it applies to this case or not):
"What will the Hitler of the future be like? He will be different, deeper, and in some way spiritual. He will be strong and calling for the right things. Most probably he will be incorruptible and his analysis of the state of the society will be almost precise, but there will be something odd about him." (my translation)
Thanks for spreading information and warning to whoever wants to really know. I am thankful for the many intelligent and informed views posted here.
-
Reading your replies, Saga, Spandex, Czech, and anyone else who may be lurking or reading thru these
threads. I just want to say that a good sign that something is truly wrong is when they do not want
you to look elsewhere or ask questions elsewhere or they refuse to use critical thinking skills.
Any *real* person will have no issues with someone questioning them, or bringing up the contradictions
in their story.
I had a similar experience with someone else, and it took my life totally off track for about 10 years.
In the end, I had a complete breakdown, and pretty much threw the middle finger at anything that
was even remotely spiritual in nature. It's been about 4 years of rebuilding my life, and 2 years since
the resulting attacks have been stopped.
What we feel within ourselves as our "own" spirituality, when that is abused, when that is taken
off track with lies, when it is teased with fake love and tempted into following.. that is similar
to killing a person, similar to taking away their life. It's taken me years to trust not just my own
inner senses again, but also, to trust what I call "spirit" itself.
So, for someone to come in here and claim it is not "dangerous" and we should have "fun" is
an insult, and apparently written by an idiot.
-
Hi Czech,
Welcome to the forums. Thanks a lot for sharing your experience! As you can see you're not alone here, you're in good company. There a lot of similarities between what you, Saga, Spandex and i have posted here. I'm in my early 20's but i've also had a difficult childhood, and i had to cope with the recent loss of my sister, having no other brothers or sisters. So even though i have good friends and family members, for a while i felt very disillusioned with the world and didn't know what to do... then i stumbled upon Kiesha Crowther's videos and she told me what i wanted to hear. At first i didn't know anything about Native American spirituality, i didn't think Crowther's claims of tribal recognition could be lies, it all seemed very genuine and she seemed like a sweet and sensitive person. Sometimes i'm lucky to be hard-headed though, because i started noticing more and more inconsistencies, inaccurate information, and how there was not a single person of Native American descent active on her tribe forums. Just about only white people, mostly European. And finally, when she was asked in a radio interview what would happen in 2012 according to her, she said: "i say this with every bit of my knowing and every fiber of my being, people who are not living in the heart will not be able to cope with the new energies, to fully enlightened beings, death does not look like death". In other words, only her elite society of a spiritual master race, and perhaps some indigenous tribes and other New Agers, survive. Everyone else dies. That's when the house of cards collapsed for me. A little later, alleged Mayan elder Don Alejandro Cirilo Perez, which Kiesha Crowther has often laid claim to, denounced the whole 2012 construct (and narrowed it down to, according to him, an alignment of stars and planets which could cause some more natural disasters than normally), and after that i found these forums and started posting a few weeks later.
Niels, like educatedindian says, i really hope you will read the replies to your post and take the time to respond. I understand that the amount of criticism can seem overwhelming, but please try to look at things from the perspective of the other forum members here. I'm happy you're able to see the importance of these forums, i just hope you'll also see the importance of this topic. ;)
Might i suggest though, that for now, we shift our attention back to tracing Kiesha Crowther's alleged lineage? If we can find Lakota people who are willing to look into it, we could either completely prove that all of it is fake, or find out who is in her mother's alleged 'Sioux Salish' tribe, and ask them for help to put a stop to this circus. I will send Ashla a message, asking if she can take a look at it, or knows someone who can.
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5911/kieshacrowther.jpg)
ALLAKHAZAZZZ!
May the magic megalithic crystal guide us!
-
This video seems to be from early on in Crowther's shaman adventure, perhaps it will provide a clue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
First 10 seconds: "Hi, my name is Little Grandmother, and i was called to become a shaman for the Flathead [incomprehensible] reservation tribe of the Sioux and Salish."
Prophetic sayings of Keisha Crowther that follow are transcripted parts of the video series - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther
Link to video 1 of 10:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4)
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 2/10 :
(Starting at 5:12 minutes/seconds into video)
"....I carry the wisdom for Nine Pipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago. I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato....
This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.
Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.
If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.
I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.
---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4 (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4
Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.
I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl. (pause) I am Chikala Uchi. (pause) I am Little Grandmother. (pause) I am great grand daughter of Chikala Lota and Chikala Jensen. (pause) I am daughter of Tinjan Chala and Father Mato
One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.
However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...
As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.
Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.
When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'.... :o )
-
Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)
Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).
"....I carry the wisdom for Ninepipes. He was a wisdom keeper that lived many hundreds of year- a couple hundred years ago."
"I am of the lineage of Spotted Owl."
(see quotes from educatedindian below)
"I am Ciqala unci.I am Little Grandmother."
(see quotes from Ingeborg below)
"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
[In Native American, the name Lootah means- Red (Sioux).. Other origins for the name Lootah include - Native American, American.The name Lootah is most often used as a boy name or male name.
http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp (http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp)
Jensen Danish pronunciation: [?j?nsn] is a Danish and Norwegian originally patronymic surname, literally meaning son of Jens.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_(surname) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jensen_(surname))
"I am daughter of Tincancala(?) and Father Mahto(?)"
This is the closest she's come that I know of to saying who her supposed relatives are. Still pretty vague and unclear, throwing out lots of names that sound impressive to people who aren't familiar.
Ninepipes (generally spelled as one word, not two) was a name or part of the names used by several Salish leaders. This was about 100-120 years ago, not "a couple hundred." They were some of the smaller chiefs, not known for being medicine people as far as I know, though likely respected as wise counselors.
If she claims Spotted Owl's lineage, that can be checked. He was from Pine Ridge. There's nothing on the other names I could find online, but saying who her great grandparents supposedly were should help.
I still find it very strange she hides who her alleged relatives are almost all the time.
---------------
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mikestevens/2010-p/p299.htm
(?) Spotted Owl1,2,3,4 (M)
(1868 - ), #40948
Pop-up Pedigree
Also known as (?) Hinhan Gleska.1,2,3,4 The nationality of (?) Spotted Owl was Oglala Lakota Sioux.1,2,3,4 (?) Spotted Owl was born in 1868.1,3,2,4 He was the son of (?) Shell Boy and (?) Hopper Horse.1,2 He was listed as "daughter" and residing in the home of (?) Shell Boy on the U.S. Indian Census Rolls taken on July 1, 1892 at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota ., USA.1 He married Mary Hawk Woman after July 1, 1892.2,3,4 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, White Clay District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on July 1, 1894.2 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 25, 1895.3 (?) was listed as the "Head of the Household" on the US Indian Census Rolls at Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, Wounded Knee District, Shannon Co., South Dakota, USA, on June 30, 1896.4
Children of (?) Spotted Owl and Mary Hawk Woman
(?) Bloody Mouth b. Apr, 18932,4
(?) Sits In Sight b. Mar, 18964
Citations
[S556] 1892.
[S269] 1894.
[S561] June 30th 1895.
[S158] June 30th, 1896.
One of our Lakota friends here should have a look at the names, as Crowther means to use Lakota words.
However, she doesn't know her behind from a hole in the ground...
As one example: 'little' is ciqala, and 'grandmother' is unci. But 'Little Grandmother' will not translate in the way Crowther says - if I'm not mistaken, it's Unciciqala correctly.
Same then with the two other names, albeit it is somewhat strange her ancestors were all little somethings. If you understood this correctly, the second word in the second name could be 'luta', but this means read which does not make sense.
When she says she's the daughter of Tincancala (sp?) and Father Mahto - these names seem to be both taken from the Lakota language. Didn't Crowther claim one parent was Salish-Sioux and one was white? (Oh, perhaps this is another case of 'ndn by injection'.... :o )
Several days ago I posted a question at PowWows.com where I joined a few years ago as CelticFire (I haven't visited the site except for a few occasions until now). This is the link with the responses:
http://www.powwows.com/gathering/native-issues/30327-exposing-fake-medicine-men-women-33.html
- Spandex
-
Like many other people on this board, I´ve also been mesmerized by a so called spiritual leader. I´ve gone through it all - the denial, the unwillingness to see the truth and finally the dark pitch you land in when you get too tired of defending the indefensible, when you just give in. And that´s when the guilt, the shame, the agony and the emptiness empowers you - because all your "friends" are now gone. And they weren´t even your friends in the first place.
But that´s why we are in here fighting. Maybe the journey through hell was meant to be because there are lots of members on this board who are dedicated to fight against racism, exploitation and charlatans just because they have made this journey.
Saying that what Kiesha does is not harmful is definitely untrue. It´s not only harmful to all those people who close down their own minds to follow her blindly. It is just as harmful to Natives, it´s a form of racism, trying to destroy all those bridges that so many of us are trying to build to increase the understanding and respect for Native cultures. She is harming Natives and non-Natives alike and she is totally correct when she says I AM - because, yes, it´s all about one single person.
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I agree that we should look into this alleged "lineage" of Crowther's, to thoroughly disprove it. But largely because these claims of hers may mean something to the non-Natives that are fooled by her. If you go back through the thread, you will see we have already had Salish and "Sioux" people who live on their reservations (and who know their relatives and the genealogy of their people) confirm that Crowther is unknown to the people there. The elders don't know her, the tribal offices don't know her, the native people she claims to represent are aghast at her lies.
If Crowther turns out to have a distant ancestor who is Native, it still doesn't matter. She is not part of the cultures she is claiming to speak for. The people do not acknowledge her.
So far all the names of living people she has given are either frauds, or in the case of legitimate people, they don't know her.
"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
[In Native American, the name Lootah means- Red (Sioux).. Other origins for the name Lootah include - Native American, American.The name Lootah is most often used as a boy name or male name.
http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp (http://www.meaning-of-names.com/native-american-names/lootah.asp)
I don't speak the languages of the Nations Crowther claims to hail from, but that site is not a good source. There isn't just one "Native American" language; there are hundreds of languages. But maybe that sort of site is where Crowther or her handlers found the name. ;)
-
The Tower vision debunked
Youtube video - 2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
(starting at 3:05 minutes:seconds)
Kiesha informs us:
"There is something else that many of us have discussed and something we have seen with our own eyes. I will do my best to explain what it is I saw. There is a large tower made of pipe and wire, and on top of this which looks like a very tall thin pyramid, on top of it sits a large ball. It is next to very cold dark waters. It's not a lake, it's more like an ocean. And this machine is man-made. And it Has been made!. And it is very operational, functional, and it contains, the ability to produce enough energy for the entire planet. It is functional right now. This will be coming out very quickly."
Taking into consideration that Kiesha has allready mentioned Nicola Tesla, the above statement becomes alot less mysterious and visionary sounding when we find that there is a striking resemblance to a picture (below) which isn't too difficult to find when looking into Tesla's work. There was really no need for her to try to do her best to describe it when she could easily have presented people with this artwork. Anyone taking his work as seriously as she says we all should in her video would have come accross this picture eventually, as it is at the website of the Tesla Society. The air of mystery that she manages to create is fascinating once we watch her performance knowing the scene is cover art of a music album by Allan Holdsworth. (Great Jazz)
As for it being operational, that wouldn't be a great surprise, knowing how some people like to keep their 'toys' secret. But the point is that she presented this in a way which leads her audience to look up to her and her associates as a channel of special knowledge, when in fact she is yet again drawing from something you can find on google if you have the time.
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/WardenclyffeTower.jpg)
The above picture is cover-art for this music:
ALLAN HOLDSWORTH, Wardenclyffe Tower, 1992.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlhC0lEKzw (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQlhC0lEKzw)
A site about the Wardenclyffe Tower:
http://www.teslasociety.com/teslatower.htm (http://www.teslasociety.com/teslatower.htm)
"The Tower was designed as a world communications center and Nikola Tesla added to the project in that the tower would also be used for transmitting electrical energy without wires to the entire globe. Tesla wanted to saturate the globe with electricity as a dynamo so that everyone on the surface of the globe could obtain electrical light just by sticking wires into the soil and a electrical bulb would light. When J.P. Morgan heard about the Tesla project, he was asked: "How can we get money from the electricity which Tesla is supplying to every part of the world?" After that Morgan cut the funds and the Tower was never finished."
- Spandex
-
This is the tower (http://buffy.wikia.com/wiki/Tower) it made me think of
(http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100628042639/buffy/images/thumb/d/d5/Gift558.jpg/597px-Gift558.jpg)
"The tower was built by crazy people and I don't think it's holding up very well"
~ Dawn Summers
And since the other mantra of that story was "Death is your gift"...
Is this what we can expect from Kiesha? Or is it what she's going to ask of her minions?
(http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081206173637/buffy/images/7/7f/522_TheGift1.jpg)
-
Is this what we can expect from Kiesha? Or is it what she's going to ask of her minions?
I shudder to even think along this line. However, you have brought up an interesting correlation. :-\
-
I have to say that the same thing crossed my mind when I heard first time in one of the talks the words: "to fully enlightened beings, death does not look like death"... I have watched some vicious cult stuff and that sounded somewhat alarming. She talks about only "heart conscious" people going to "new earth", which was to me quite ugly idea, since if you talk about compassion and light, shouldn't it be given to those who actually needed -> the ones in "dark" and not the ones that already have plenty... When the idea of awesomeness group is joined with the talks about death... well, I instantly start to think the suicide or "starship will come to get us home" cults.
Maybe I am just pessimistic, but there is 2 years to go to "climax" and the talks are already getting more extreme and more crazy. She seems to add more in her talks all the time to get more followers, now there is the conspiracies and catastrophes and she has started to talk awful lot about god instead of saying that religion isn't needed. Kind of added the god in the soup with "we are all gods and goddesses". Also she seems to know exactly what to say and how much show to put into it in where ever she is performing.
And about the "origins". The addresses and stuff are in the thread, where to ask if she is who she is saying she is btw, will quote here (from Ashla, on page 7):
she claimed she was made shaman over the Salish tribe. the Salish don't know her. please phone their office and ask. as for her relations in CO my sister and cousin are working on this. they only know a bit of info on how the husband has taken her to court for sole custody of the children.
Confederated Salish & Kootenai Tribes
42487 Complex Blvd.
PO Box 278
Pablo, Montana 59855
Phone Numbers:
Headquarter: (406) 675-2700
Toll Free: (888) 835-8766
Fax: (406) 675-2806
and more numbers here, entire list
http://www.cskt.org/about/contactus.htm
Also, from Sky, on page 7:
Quote
Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee...
(my bold)
EBC has only a handful of Elders. I spent last night talking to them on the phone. They have never heard of Kiesha Crowther. WolfHawaii knows the people I know, he can call and confirm my findings if he wants. I called a few elders this morning as well, no knowledge of her.
In between moving I will call my friends with CNO and UKB. My sis Robin knows people in CNO's legal dept, I will see if she can make a call while she is here helping me pack.
I also talked (and talked and talked) to my Tom Cheyenne, he's Lakota and he's pretty disturbed by this. He distributes coats etc to Elders, elders and families on PR he's going to ask around when he makes his deliveries.
I will also ask Robin if she has any contacts in Colombus so that we can get some people out to the workshop November 20th.
Sky
-
Isn't that what Jim Jones was saying too about death? That for them, death wasn't death? hmmm.. not a good sign.
-
Just one point!
Lootha is not a Lakota word
we use Luta for scarlet
Ska for Red
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I understand your concerns and the correlation they bring up Saga, and i really appreciate that you're doing your best to make people aware of what's going on. But i have to be very honest here and say that i think this is a little far-fetched. Crowther seems to believe that real Mayans support the 2012 movement (they do not, for anyone just visiting these forums). I get the impression she is becoming aware of this inaccuracy in her message, so maybe that's why she's bringing up Bernard Perona now (Drunvalo Melchizedek), as he's a proponent of the 2012 hoax (and is making millions at it, of course... his books and workshops are very lucrative). Her talk about how there would be some kind of energetic holocaust in 2012, and especially the way she behaves in her more recent shows, is indeed very scary, and it leads me to think she's suffering from some type of a psychosis (won't be much news to the forum regulars here, but just to support their viewpoints). I didn't recognize this at first because of the way she seemed to present herself at that moment; enthusiastic, sensitive and genuine. But as i explained before, that seemed to change over time, and now there's a lot more conspiracy and armageddon talk.
I'm pretty convinced however that she will never get to the point where she will start talking about such a thing. Her inner circle is not that crazy and the ' Tribe of Many Colors' is not a physical real-life cult (yet, i hope). And i think that when people who believe her message visit this forum just out of curiosity, and see us talking about worst-case-scenario speculation, they will laugh and never return.
Sorry, i'm not trying to be the leader of this topic here, and if you don't appreciate it, by all means go on with taking a look at every possibility. But may i suggest that, for the sake of visitors, we just return to facts here? Debunking her claims and tracing her lineage and stuff :)
By the way, Spandex, nice work on the tower vision stuff. I'm now trying to focus on Bernard Perona in a same way, as he seems to be Crowther's new 'evidence'.
-
As I said in my post: It may be that I am just a pessimist and affected with the cult information programs I have watched and my alarms go off easily when there is mentioning about death in those cases. I am not suggesting that Kiesha would be that crazy. :) Only saying that anything could be possible seeing what has happened in the past. Just one very pessimistic possibility which I don't really think that would happen either, but can't help making the linking with the words. Especially after watching couple of reminders from the cult stuff lately, seems that our tv stations have decided that so close to 2012 it is good to remind us about world's end cults. :) I like to think her either misguided herself or indeed having created little bit too real fantasy to herself, or even myself being totally wrong too instead of what i said. :) Interpreting the words and the message part is ofc only speculation and it's effects on me only personal experiences.
And as you see, since this sites main purpose is to debunk the exploiters and fakes, I got back in the actual subject after that and quoted the answers from previous sites again, where Salish and Cherokee say that their people don't know her, there's emails and all there too in addition to phonenumbers, to Salish/Kootenai office. Related to her lists of how many tribes recognizes her work. I am sorry to let my imagination run loose there for a while. :)
Also, she has posted this to her profile in fb:
"I am truly appalled at what has been written about me and family members on the fraud site and am ready to take any and all legal means necessary to stop these blatant lies and allegations. I can handle being made fun of but this has gone to far!"
-
Also, she has posted this to her profile in fb:
"I am truly appalled at what has been written about me and family members on the fraud site and am ready to take any and all legal means necessary to stop these blatant lies and allegations. I can handle being made fun of but this has gone to far!"
That would be interesting!
She would have to provide evidence in court that the claims she professes about herself and her credentials are all true and she isn't making anything up. That's what we want her to do! lol.
- Spandex
edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)
-
It would be so easy to just tell the names and show the proof, if being what she say she is. :)
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It would be so easy to just tell the names and show the proof, if being what she say she is. :)
^ THIS ^
Why would she need to take legal action if she is for real? I think she's starting to realize how valid the points we're bringing up here are. "Changing the channel" is obviously no working for her and her Tribe.
By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1
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Oh btw, I read one of the urgent messages again from her site: "Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since. These peoples regard her as the incarnation of something very important—which Keisha has never wanted to make public or to give weight to."...
(EDIT: I mean this site: http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEFROMLG.aspx which unfortunately makes me want to believe the stuff said there still and start to defense her with "but that text even says it that she is not claiming to use the traditional teachings" altho I still realise that she still "sells" the message with claiming to be recognized by the indigenous people, no matter where the message comes from and how traditional it is)
Anyway, I wrote to salish office (hopefully in the right place too :p) and asked about her, altho I feel really stupid about doing so. I just want to set the records straight from my behalf at least, so that I don't have to doubt things anymore (since no one else probably believes the answer if I tell them it, when/if I get any and it is proving all in here right). Official answer is sometimes needed when getting confused, altho I more or less trust the people that have said that they have asked around in their tribes and no one knows her...
-
By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1
I read some of it, this was interesting post: "I really get a kick out of the person who thinks he is reincarnated Native American, Native Americans don't even believe in reincarnation, why doesn't she just say she is a new Age person here to tell her followers a message of hope and love, why tell them something that someone will prove is a lie, then she will be labeled as a fraud, I live in Hawaii and on her site she says she came to Maui and the kahuna's have had a prophecy of a blond girl coming to their land and finding the crystals , or something this blond girl was suppose to do, anyway I have never heard of such a thing . The Hawaiians wouldnt have any thing to do with white people in there old ways, and crystals are not found over here in Hawaii, lots of lava rock but no crystal, so what power would a crystal have here?But look guy how can you even talk like you know anything when you have no blood or have lived with the real Native Americans? reincarnated American Indian, what down right bull, you know how much of a fool you sound like? and anyone can sit and talk about Mother Earth dying, we all know that, Always dig into someones past before you follow someone blindly, and yes why ask for money to spread love to Mother Earth, cant she have a job and still spread the word? Sounds like a New Age cult, and thats OK but dont say you are something your not"
I read a while ago that lots of the Hawaiian "kahunas" are fakes too and kind of a "tourist attraction" and ofc selling the spirituality there...
Anyway, it is interesting how people think that they can just swim through the life without getting caught with the lies they left behind...
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Thanks Crescent, yeah, Bernard
Piranah Perona is a real piece of work!
______________
I think it's a good idea to put transcripts of Kiesha's actual words here so that they will go on record and be easier to study for anyone searching for this information on the internet. Nothing matches actually experiencing it first hand though. This stuff is magnificently designed to inculcate followers.
Kiesha speaks on 2012[b/]
by kedarvideo
http://vimeo.com/16830337 (http://vimeo.com/16830337)
It is also featured on Kiesha's site:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html)
(Below is a complete transcript of video above, which is an edited compilation of parts of her talk in Zurich in early November 2010 when Kiesha Crowther spoke about 2012, the expected pole shift and how people should prepare themselves.)
"We live in a magical time. The most amazing time on planet Earth to ever be. She is going to be reborn into her full glory. Her heavenly self. The change has allready started and we have the opportunity to enlighten with her. We literally have two years to change the way we are. There are thousands of books about two thousand and twelve out there, and we learned so many different things, but do you know the Mayan people, the only people who have lived through a pole shift before, have only started talking a couple of months ago, and they are saying "Do not have fear. Rejoice inside of your hearts because it is going to be beautiful." We have an opportunity to go foreward in humanity, becoming enlightened. And when you are enlightened all things make sense, and you live from the heart. Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains? Very soon we will be gifted all of that. The things we fear now is just because we do not understand it....but when you become enlightened, all things fall together, and there is nothing to fear. Grandfather Alejandro, the grandfather of all Mayan people says "the very walls we see falling around us are only the walls that kept us in prison, and we should be excited and rejoice and be happy to step out." That which you give your energy and your emotion to becomes your reality. It is every humans gift. Whatever you give your emotion to becomes reality for you. In the next couple of years many things are going to change. We can stay in fear because we do not know what is coming, and you will live in fear, but if you stay in your heart and you are excited for what is coming, then you will live in joy. Again, there is nothing to fear. If you knew tomorrow the whole world would change for something much more beautiful, would you be afraid? Heaven on Earth is coming, and we can live on Heaven. It is our choice. If you stay in your heart and be love, you will enlighten and go with Mother Earth to something higher. It is said by the Mayan people, who have lived through a pole change before, that the full change only happens within several minutes, it's very fast, but there will be a couple of days of full darkness, and it is at this time that it is very important for us to stay in the heart. Gather your families and just be 'in' love and stay calm. Do not give over to fear. It's all going to be ok. And when the Sun rises again you will see a new Earth, and everything will make sense. We will become enlightened. We will move foreward in a new humanity, one that is ruled by love. Many people do not understand how the world will shift, and it brings us alot of fear wondering if there will be mass destruction. There will be some natural disasters, but when have humanity not lived through natural disaster. It happens all the time. Planet Earth has a very hard centre, and around the planet is hot lava, much like a ball bearing with grease around it. And the crust of the Earth sits on top of that 'grease' or that lava. And when the poles change 'everything' will not move. The centre will hold strong and the crust of the Earth will simply move. It's not going to be as tragic as we all think. Mother will stretch and move and fall into her perfect state. And Heaven will truly be here. And we will see and live in that state as well. The shift has allready begun. The poles are allready starting to move. A large ammount of energies are coming to planet Earth. Because I can see energy I can see when the energies come. Our science can take readings of how much energy is in the Earth, and do you know in the last year it has more than tripled. Large ammount of energies are coming to planet Earth, and they are coming in short intervals to give us time to digest these new energies. Some of us are feeling the, the side-affects of these new energies coming. Our bodies are simply trying to work through these new energies that are coming, and we are digesting them. When the big shift happens a ton of Energy will come to planet Earth, and if we were not given little bits at a time to get used to it our human bodies would die. But it is true it is allready started. Mother Earth and the human bodies now have more energy vibrating in them than ever before. Too many of us on planet Earth think 'well this is a story that the indiginous have been saying for a long time, but we do not realise it is really happening now! The world is changing. Our bodies are changing. Our DNA structure is actually changing. It is real. We will experience this shift. We are the ones who will be alive during the change and it really is up to us to change the way we live. If we do not change and stay living from the mind and ego we will be removed, because we are killing Mother Earth. It is a Universal Law that Mother Earth will go on, but it is up to us wether we go with her or not. All we are asked to do is be Love. That is it. It is so easy. And your soul will always lead you in the right direction. Always."
The video is well put together. The inspirational music, singing, and paradisaical artwork, together with Kiesha's soft dulcet tones, achieve an almost hypnotic effect that will no doubt inspire believers to stay 'in Love' when the great shift occurs and the people living in fear are cleansed from the Earth-Heaven destined for the 'enlightened' souls.
The fuller version of the Zurich workshop:
Kiesha in Zurich
by kedarvideo
http://vimeo.com/16812713 (http://vimeo.com/16812713)
A version is also featured on Kiesha's site:
0 Kiesha in Zurich part 1
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/videos-and-audios/featured.html)
Here are some excerpts:
At 1:38 minutes:seconds:
" My name is Kiesha Crowther and I come from a very very small town in Collorado"
At 2:52:
"...but when I turned 30 I recieved a phonecall from the Indiginous tribes of North America, and an Elder told me they knew I was being taught by the other side since a very young age. And they told me it was time for me to become the one to be called Little Grandmother and become a shaman and a wisdom-teacher, and that there were others just like me. There were eleven others, wisdom keepers who were just like me recieving the same messages and we had a very important role to play on Planet Earth.................I am here to teach you about the lessons I was taught, from the other side, from Mother Earth, and from my Indigenous Elders, The Continental Council of Indiginous Elders."
At 5:30:
"...........these peoples prophecies for hundreds of years have been talking about a time on our planet when the poles would shift again, and now it is upon us........for hundreds and hundreds of years the prophecies from indigenous tribal people have been saying "a time would come when Mother Earth would shift and be reborn into her Heaven...(video edit/cut)...and at this time, the people living on planet Earth would have to switch from living a mind-consciousness into a heart-consciousness if they wish to 'enlighten' during this shift...(video edit/cut)...they spoke of a people who would come to the planet, the strongest of the strong of all souls and all spirits to arrive...(cut)...and these people would shift the consciousness from mind-consciousness into heart-consciousness, and change the world...(cut)...and these people would be called 'The Tribe of Many Colours'...(cut)...and we are The Tribe of Many Colours...(cut)...it is us that they were talking about...(video edit/cut)...we are the ones we have been waiting for...(cut)...the pole shift is happening, it is not going to happen, it has allready begun...(cut)...it is no longer a story the Elders are saying will happen, they are saying it Is happening ...(cut).....due north is no longer due north. It is changing all over the planet...(cut)... and the poles will not stop shifting until it is completely shifted....(cut)... "
7:40
"...the ozone layer Is dissappearing. The planets temperature has risen in 2 degrees. ...(cut)... although 2 degrees does not affect the human body it affects wildlife immensely..." (goes on to explain while tears come to her eyes how everything is going wrong in many ways and how the sea life is dying in great ammounts)
10:00
(about the gulf oil spill):"....underneath where it spilled ...(cut)... is a chamber larger than Mt.Everest ...(cut)... full of oil and toxic gas ...(cut)... that is large enough to split North America in two ...(video edit/cut)... even if the smallest ammount of gas leaks out...(cut)... it will kill life in 20 miles inward of land automatically ...(cut)...and that's just if the smallest ammount leaks out...(cut)..."
10:58
"...it is a Universal Law that Mother Earth is sacred to all beings ...(cut)...and it is a Universal Law that Mother Earth will go on ...(cut)...but that humanity will be removed before we kill her ...(cut)...and so now we realise how important the next couple of years are ...(cut)...the poles are allready shifting...(cut)...she will be reborn ...(cut)...but if we wish to go with her we must start living from the heart...(cut)...the more loving you are, the more intelligent you become...(cut)...it is our only chance...(cut)...this is not a story, this is really happening, this is real...(cut)...so many of us are going throughout our days not even being aware of what is happening...(cut)...but this is happening...(cut)..."
11:48
"instead of living in fear...(cut)...what the grandfathers are telling us is is to start living from the heart...(cut)...because the more loving you are, the more intelligent you become...(cut)...if we start being love...(cut)...we get the answers of how to save our planet, and we get to stay...(cut)...if we do not, our children will not have a future...(cut)...this really Is our situation...(cut)..."
12:38
"you were chose...(cut)...because it is said that we are the strongest of the strong souls ever to be on planet Earth...(cut)..."....etc etc
The disjointed video edits increase in frequency and visual dissonance, especially with the introduction of quick transition effects. (creating cognitive dissonance is a technique used to induce suggestability)Together with the photo flashes and the monotone speech, intense repetition , etc, it all adds to a very hypnotic state inducing piece of work, imo. This is so obvious to me that I believe it's too much of a stretch of the imagination to believe it is accidental or unintentional.
In my inexpert laymans opinion, this is a cult-style brainwashing video, unintentional or not.
Kiesha seems to be confusing magnetic shift with crustal shift.
For a more accurate view of 'pole shifts':
Cataclysmic pole shift hypothesis:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataclysmic_pole_shift_hypothesis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cataclysmic_pole_shift_hypothesis)
Mayans Say World WONT End in 2012:
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2385.0 (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2385.0)
I find this 'enlightening':
"...but when I turned 30 I recieved a phonecall from the Indiginous tribes of North America, and an Elder told me they knew I was being taught by the other side since a very young age. And they told me it was time for me to become the one to be called Little Grandmother and become a shaman and a wisdom-teacher, and that there were others just like me. There were eleven others, wisdom keepers who were just like me recieving the same messages and we had a very important role to play on Planet Earth.................I am here to teach you about the lessons I was taught, from the other side, from Mother Earth, and from my Indigenous Elders, The Continental Council of Indiginous Elders."
She seems to be saying that the elder that contacted her and convinced her that she had this calling was one of the Continental Council of Indiginous Elders.
I may be wrong, but to me she gives the impression that she believes alot of the stuff she is saying in her talks, whatever her other motivations are. It's almost as if she has been indocrinated in a variety of topics which are popular in the new-age scene, but hasn't actually taken the time to check out the information properly for herself, and is willing to pass on what she has been told without critical thinking, working from the heart and simply trusting her mentors/elders/felow wisdom-keepers(who remain veiled in secrecy).
One of the influences in her life is Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek) who she calls 'brother'. I've watched some of his video presentations, and have to say that to anyone who leans toward the nuage reality script who is trusting and working from the heart without critical thinking faculties switched full on, he could be very convincing. He holds 'Living in the Heart' workshops, which is the almost exact phrase used by Kiesha when she repeatedly advises us to 'Live from the Heart'. Is this just a coincidence?
Just to reiterate, Drunvalo Melchizedek is a long-time ICA supporter and associate of Adam DeArmon (aka Adam Yellowbird). Adam is president of The Institute For Cultural Awareness and member of The Continental Council Of Indigenous Elders ( in her own words, 'her' Elders and teachers). He created “The Return Of the Ancestors Gathering”
Kiesha's video 'The Return of the Ancestors' is in keeping with the nuage doctrine they promote.
It's almost as if these guys found a willing puppet to promote their paradigm (which includes getting people to pay alot of money for their services).
There is no better puppet/spokesperson/salesperson than one who can be convinced what they are saying is all true. This type of puppet, by 'speaking from the heart' can easily fool people who are just using their hearts to sense if there is any decietful intent, because there isn't any.
So what I'm proposing is the possibility that Kiesha might have been unwittingly indocrinated into the role she is now playing, and could actually believe it is all true.
Maybe she doesn't realise that just because people say it's true doesn't make it so, especialy where there are cracks in the story and they insist you rely on your heart alone and not use your mind-consciousness. Just because people hold meetings on the astral plane or whatever you want to call it, doesn't make what they present true, any more than watching a well scripted movie is necessarily true. The idea that the Heart never lies is misleading. Some peoples hearts are full of darkness and illusions, and they can turn on the appropriate emotions at will, just like a good actor. Some spirits are tricksters.
If she isn't afraid of the message, and has taken the message she relays to us into her heart and made it real :
"Do not have fear. Rejoice inside of your hearts because it is going to be beautiful."
........then why is she so sad when she speaks of the shift, almost to the point of tears when she gives the impassioned plea, "...if we start being love...(cut)...we get the answers of how to save our planet, and we get to stay...(cut)...if we do not, our children will not have a future...(cut)...this really Is our situation...(cut)..."
Instead, we see someone who looks upset, and fearful about a future she sees where many people will literally be destroyed because they don't 'fit the vibration' of the new Heaven on Earth. This is like the emotional conflict of someone who has been indocrinated into a cult which promises salvation, only to find that it also predicts death for many of the ones they love, just because they don't 'get it'.
If this is the case, we know what she is going through, and the sooner she distances herself from her 'masters' the better.
I just like to give people some benefit of the doubt.
-Spandex
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That is possibility for sure, that she is being a puppet and will have the same not so comfortable fate of starting to doubt everything when she realizes it...
I am just hoping to get the answer to my post as soon as possible so I can have the answer in the most crucial question of how much of a fake her created role is. Most of the message in the form it is now, is bs to me anyway now...
So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...
For me it was of course way more darker experience to find out that the shiny things that were talked about were not gold after all tho, and now i have to start digging the REAL gold again after noticing that someone has filled up the hole I already managed to dig in the ground to reveal truths, integrity and positive thinking before I had ever heard of Kiesha Crowther...
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So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...
It feels like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eZBevXohCI
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There's one thing i want to make clear though; there is just one of the 'conspiracies' Crowther is talking about which is not far-fetched, it seems to be very real.
http://foodfreedom.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/s-510-is-hissing-in-the-grass/
This is the reason why i don't buy from 9 out of 10 big food corporations. They really seem to want to put a stop to cultivating organic foods and naturally harvesting seeds in the US, amongst other things.
I think nothing can be more dangerous than giving away your freedom to decide what to eat. The notion that natural, self-cultivated, organic food is more dangerous than unstable genetically modified crops, which get covered with gallons of Round-Up and have to be genetically twisted around even more every 5 years to withstand even more poison, because the plant-diseases and insects can build up a resistance to this poison in such a short time, a poison which is a direct descendant from Agent Orange (both were/are made by Monsanto)... are you kidding me.
Sounds too far-fetched to be true? Like i said before, watch the documentary Food, Inc (truly, a must see): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eKYyD14d_0
EDIT: apparently a decision was made to put a stop to this madness. Doesn't mean that we don't have to watch for these kind of things in the future though...
http://nation.foxnews.com/congress/2010/12/01/congress-screws-food-bill
Ok, well now that that's clear, lol... let's continue focusing on Crowther.
Thanks for providing another excellent post Spandex, crazy stuff. You're right about the cognitive dissonance... that's what i was trying to convey as well, but i struggled to find the words.
There is no better puppet/spokesperson/salesperson than one who can be convinced what they are saying is all true. This type of puppet, by 'speaking from the heart' can easily fool people who are just using their hearts to sense if there is any decietful intent, because there isn't any.
So what I'm proposing is the possibility that Kiesha might have been unwittingly indocrinated into the role she is now playing, and could actually believe it is all true.
Maybe she doesn't realise that just because people say it's true doesn't make it so, especialy where there are cracks in the story and they insist you rely on your heart alone and not use your mind-consciousness. Just because people hold meetings on the astral plane or whatever you want to call it, doesn't make what they present true, any more than watching a well scripted movie is necessarily true. The idea that the Heart never lies is misleading. Some peoples hearts are full of darkness and illusions, and they can turn on the appropriate emotions at will, just like a good actor. Some spirits are tricksters.
This is just about exactly my view as well. Don't think she's really out to make money, though she is out to get as many followers as possible of course. I do think she could be very good at misleading people, knowing just what to say to get people behind her, and appearing innocent. A survival mechanism from her youth, if her talk about her difficult childhood is real (seems plausible to me). And like i've said before, about the phone call she received from the 'Continental Council of Ingenious Exploiters Indigenous Elders', people of which i'm 99% certain she has been in contact with them before, as she does not specifically state that the phone call came out of nowhere... If it would have, i think she would bring it up every single time she talks about how her shaman adventure started, that's just how she is. She just wanted to believe it so much, that she simply seems to have washed her discernment down the drain.
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"I think one of the best ways we can support and make Kiesha stronger in this moment of "blatant lies and allegations" is to donate as much money as we can ,so she can hire a lawyer to take emmidiate action to put this slander to a STOP..."
......
So no followers?
I think I want to go now and quietly throw up, this all is too much for me. Call me after 2012. :p
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I think it's a good idea to put transcripts of Kiesha's actual words here so that they will go on record and be easier to study for anyone searching for this information on the internet. Nothing matches actually experiencing it first hand though. This stuff is magnificently designed to inculcate followers.
-Spandex
Something to consider in addition to posting transcripts and links is to use a site like FreezePage (http://www.freezepage.com/) in order to have timestamped unalterable copies of webpages. Here is a link to their FAQ page (http://www.freezepage.com/faq.htm) which explains how the service works. There is no cost.
Too often a website will be modified invalidating evidence of what had been posted or written. In the event of lawsuits or requests to provide proof, being able to pull a file from FreezePage will be enough to have the accuser back down.
We can have all sorts of information posted here which we say came from her site, but she can easily go in and delete it, remove/modify URLs to make them break, then claim it is being made up to libel her.
Just a thought.
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Something to consider in addition to posting transcripts and links is to use a site like FreezePage (http://www.freezepage.com/) in order to have timestamped unalterable copies of webpages. Here is a link to their FAQ page (http://www.freezepage.com/faq.htm) which explains how the service works. There is no cost.
Thank you for posting that info, ShadowDancer. It is indeed interesting and potentially useful for any number of situations.
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I am familiar with these workshops called "living in the heart", "opening the heart", "awakening the heart" etc.
There is a lot of it about and it is a con man's dream.
Basically vulnerable, naive people are told that "big changes" are going to happen in 2012 and that the "old ways of being" (thinking with the brain / mind, being concerned about the future, worrying about money and material things, worrying about what other people think) are bad.
In order to survive 2012 people need to awaken the heart / live in the heart / open the heart / whatever.
This means
1. living in the "now" and not worrying about the future (effectively relinquishing your mental capacity for discernment and critical thinking)
2. relinquishing material things - who needs money and material things when 2012 is just around the corner?
3. understanding that what we think is reality is just a dream / illusion
4. becoming "open" to new realities (no matter how incredible they sound)
5. rejecting external pressures from society, friends and family so you can be your "true self"
6. following a spiritual guru / leader (who kindly agrees to relieve you of the burden of your material things). You learn unconditional love from obedience and devotion to your guru regardless of whatever bad things he or she may do to you.
7. burning karma / working off your karmic debt. The guru will give you tasks, challenges and ordeals to undertake that will help to cleanse you of bad karma accumulated over many lifetimes, in preparation for the big changes in 2012.
8. going to live in a spiritual community so as to devote yourself to spiritual pursuits. By this time you have no money, no home, no car, nothing. Your guru has everything that was once yours and now he owns you too. You can be put to work in a factory, picking cotton, even working in a brothel, all unpaid and all in the cause of paying off your karmic debt. If you don't like it, tough. You have nowhere to go to and no money to get there even if you did. Welcome to slavery, 21st century style.
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By the way, there is also a thread on a forum called Godlikeproductions where people are debunking her. A pretty 'wild' forum, but the people there are aware of NAFPS.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1264576/pg1
I've participated in this forum.
The crap that some spew out is incredible, really.
Shamans, OMG, my Auntie would just spit, lol lol
On the bright side, there are folks who "get it".
Cheers, Raven
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Interesting thread with some recent posts. One of them says they met her in 2005 and describes a little bit about the 12 Wisdomkeepers. Her story seems to be unravelling a little bit with this info....
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=145699
On page 2, Post 17:
"how old is kiesha?
I met her as it happens in may 2005 in a small village in uk. It was a block of terraces that had been broken through to form a complex...it was the day she and 11 others arrived there. They all believed themselves to be the first 12 chosen and had arrived on what they also believed to be telepathic command. My reasons for knocking on the door were totally different...i was following a code i'd found in the lords prayer and wondered what would happen if i took the message it contained literally, so i got on a plane to bristol then a bus to the location named on the first of the dates given...the message had a few possible interpretations so i followed em all, all gave me an experience which has led me to insights of coming events, one took me to this complex where i was let in unquestioningly...and was shown to a room made to BE a cloud all white and full of clouds , painted and otherwise created and wings everywhere...felt very uncomfortable and wondering how to get out again ...was offered a cup of tea...yes please...which kind? oh just ordinary thanks...reaction...looking at each other in disbelief..etc etc...then the 12th arrived making 13 and i was kicked out on my ear to my great relief.....lol....there was a huge organization behind this and i ran into research years later that made me remember that incident and recognize the mind control behavior of the 12 women there, suddenly realizing that what they had thought oof themselves as telepathic command was chips in their brains. I stumbled acrossd keisha vids a few days ago and recognized her immediately. Does anyone know how old she claims to be now because in the zurich vid ..part 2 she says she got a call on her 30th birthday telling her of the existance of the other 11, so if thats true that was pre 2005 because when i met her in may 2005 that was the day she and the other 11 came together at that compleex in sw uk."
Last edited by cartamandua; 28-11-2010 at 02:01 PM.
Definitely a contradiction to the personal story she's telling now. I know some of the information doesn't seem to make sense so it's tough to say how valid it all is, but it was followed by a poster asking a lot of questions about it and I'm hoping they'll come back and give answers.
Superdog
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http://www.vimeo.com/17023911
In this video she makes some claims that would be very easy to check.
She says that in the beginning of October, China and New York had to close down their airports due to too many spaceships (discs) in the sky. (Did I totally miss this or is spaceships hindering the regular airtraffic not big news?)
She says that NASA has sent out a message about the coding of our DNA, the structure of Mother Earth and our bodies - and NASA received a message back with the DNA of the starpeople and the structure of their planet. (Which is...where....??)
She says that the crystals she is burying all around the world must be buried in leylines. Then you will see a map showing the leylines which seem to be everywhere apart from in Scandinavia. Not a single line in Sweden :'( (I think some people will be very disappointed....) Yet she comes here and buries one of the biggest crystals, according to people who attended. (She talks about it in the video). Maybe she should try to calibrate her info better. Or at least explain why she contradicts herself.
I only watched half of the video, sorry but can´t digest much more.
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http://www.vimeo.com/17023911
"She says that in the beginning of October, China and New York had to close down their airports due to too many spaceships (discs) in the sky."
As for UFO's shutting down airports:
http://shanghaiist.com/2010/09/07/ufo_spotted_hovering_for_three_hour.php
http://www.thetotalcollapse.com/us-shuts-down-new-york-city-airspace-over-ufo-threat/
Alot of this type of stuff gets missed unless you're a UFO groupie (ok I admit it, lol) looking for the news (accurate or not).
Knowing this type of stuff doesn't give you credibility by association, which is a logical fallacy many con artists use to impress their sheeple.
THESE are large crystals:
http://www.healingtaoretreats.com/images/giantcrystal.jpg
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/PZojT4CfRQwj0WiJlZCyTA
http://cubeme.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/naica_world_largest_crystal_cave4.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01016/crystal_1016048c.jpg
The Earth is full of enormous crystals. If we are talking about a planetary scale form of acupuncture then I find it dubious that several crystals (at a few hundred dollars each) planted at the chakra points, or whatever you want to call them, is going to be sufficient, considering the vast ammounts of crystals allready in the Earth that are allready working in this respect. If that's the goal, maybe a large pyramid made with crystal-included stone would be better? ::)
Anyone with the cash can plant a crystal of that size. It isn't an impressive thing to do. I once had one of similar size myself before I gave it away. With the ammount the clients are charged for these events by the organisers, I would have expected the participants to be treated to a nice size crystal each to plant along with the special one, maybe in some sort of special grid matrix inspired by a channeled message from an important sounding entity or well respected Elder of the past.
Will they be returning each year to do repeat ceremonies or is these just 'hit and run' rituals?
- Spandex
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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I can't remember who said this, but... If the Earth has "chakras" and "acupuncture points", who says she wants humans digging up her crystals and rearranging them?
The crystal fad has led to clearcutting and blasting in the rainforests of Brazil. Beautiful, natural crystal caves have been destroyed so newagers can have their bling. By promoting the purchase and "planting" of these large crystals, Keisha Crowther is responsible for promoting devastation of the rainforest and the violation and destruction of sacred sites.
Sitting in a condo in Europe and praying can not, and will not, make up for that selfish, capitalist, consumerist destruction.
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What we know to be true is that the ICA (run by Adam Yellowbird - member of the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders and Spiritual Guides of the Americas) is involved in what is called by some 'Sacred travel'. And as people pay to go to Kiesha's talks etc, her business is along the same line as her teachers, the latter 'Elders'.
Here's an article on it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_travel
Sacred travel, or metaphysical tourism, spiritualized travel, is a growing niche of the travel market. It attracts New Age believers and involves tours and travel to "spiritual hotspots" on the Earth......................These travelers see the journey as more than just tourism and take the trips in order to heal themselves and the world.................
For a real Indiginous Native American life enhancing spiritual journey, I have a suggestion: g Instead of paying to be told stuff you can look up online, go buy a really good quality wood burning stove and take it to one of the reservations where people are trying to keep warm this winter on meager resources.
-Spandex
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You could take that plane fare and send it to the propane company. It's hard to find enough wood to heat with, so more people use propane.
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Good idea.
If people want to live in the heart, just do something practical to help someone else.
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Good idea.
If people want to live in the heart, just do something practical to help someone else.
Exactly... and we will not become more of a spiritual and balanced person if we try to discard our negativity. Positive thinking should come naturally, we shouldn't try to force it. When i was into Tribe of Many Colors stuff, i tried to forget my problems and the things i had to cope with, and i tried to convince myself that those were very important lessons for my spiritual growth which i should feel good about... and it was not healthy for me. Whenever something happened that i didn't feel good about, someone acting unfriendly for example, i would try to detach myself from my negative feelings, but once i got home i couldn't stop myself from brainstorming about it, and eventually becoming really angry about those small things. If you feel angry or sad about something or someone, say it. Let them know it when these feelings arise... because fellow human beings are really what's most important to us, and no book, video, website or galactic sacred vibration can help you more than to simply talk with each other.
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She says that NASA has sent out a message about the coding of our DNA, the structure of Mother Earth and our bodies - and NASA received a message back with the DNA of the starpeople and the structure of their planet. (Which is...where....??)
This is from youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTsU8bjrgcw
...snip...
At 4:13 she says Nasa says this year we sent out an encoded message to space with DNA picture, etc. This message was [actually] designed by Carl Sagan and sent from the Arecibo radio telescope on 16 November 1974. The Chilbolton 'Arecibo message' Formation of 2001 is the supposed response. These things happened in 1974 and 2001. If she is not intentionally making up a story then she is not careful with her facts. ? Caution advised.
...snip...
Additionally, the Chilbolton site (a meterological research telescope in the UK - http://www.chilbolton.rl.ac.uk/ ) is nowhere near Arecibo which is in Puerto Rico. LG is definitely NOT careful when she tries to use facts. But hey, it's all the same schpeel right?
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Ugh. There is way too much B.S. to wade through.
It is sad to me, that small bits of truth and helpful thoughts are turned into such crazyness.
We all know it's not a "bad" thing to open your heart and help others. But to take such a thing,
and turn it into .. THIS.. is to me, like blasphemy. And that goes for ALL the things people like
her are doing. Taking out of context a good idea, a good thought of a good way to make a good
difference in this world.. and turning it into some strange whacked out nonsense that only puts
people's money in the sellers pocket, along with their mind.
I'm just so sick of it. Sick.
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Agree with Critter...
Also, in my own experience I can say that these things can make people turn against all the good things because of these people who twist things into BS and make people to just wrap in themselves totally. I know that I have to struggle right now to get my head back in the surface and do what I KNOW is good thing to do instead of just telling the whole world to go f* itself... Good thing is that I had pretty big part of my spirituality sorted out before I hit this, so it is easier to get back to what I already know to be healthier for me and work on the problem spots from there, like the healthy positivity. But for a while it really ruined everything for me.
And about ignoring the negative completely... what will you really learn then anyway? It means ignoring the constructive critic, the uncomfortable feeling some people/places might make you feel that could be taken as a warning sign, the uncomfortable feeling that people who are deep in grief make you feel, when instead of helping them, you just detach from the situation and go away, the uncomfortable feeling inside when something is really wrong and you should see what it is instead of thinking only good thoughts... Self love is important thing, but it does not come from pretending that everything is ok and from pretending that you love the world, if you are judging yourself and everyone around you who doesn't think like your guru tells you... it is actually lots easier to "not to judge" and "love unconditionally" when you have your own boundaries straight. So lots of things are going wrong in basic "good" message too, if taking it word to word...
Calling the "outsiders" dark ones and non-awekened and "lower" and what ever and saying that their part is to die, because they don't have high enough energy to cope with it (=they don't follow the "teachings" word to word), is not too compassioned thing to do in my point of view either, and it sure isn't "being love". :) We are humans too and we have been hurt as well and maybe we act from "ego" or right/wrong reasons (which ever direction you are looking at it), but I think there weren't supposed to be any judging others in Kiesha's philosophy, so where's our right for compassion? :)
(Another thing, judging is completely different from constructive critic that might help someone grow. If I tell someone I don't like how he/she is acting, that doesn't mean that I judge him/her as a bad person in core.)
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I agree with the previous posters about ignoring the negativity.
For many years I ran a charity foundation to help poor Native children and elders and while doing so I got in contact with many New Age people being fascinated by Native Americans. But trying to get them involved in the supportwork used to be very tough, often impossible. Many of them did not want to know about the bad things, did not want to hear about reality. When discussing ways to raise money during our meetings, they would rather "send good energies" for a while and then be done with it.
The consequences of shutting out the "negative" news are that you will most likely avoid helping people in need. The focus is on your own inner harmony. It shouldn´t get unbalanced by even thinking of the harsh reality, it is better to hide in your own cocoon.
And it makes me wonder how many of Kiesha´s followers do hand-on work to support and help the people they prey on?
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@Freija
You are right with most of them wanting to go the easy way and sit at home sending good energies. :) Which made the "being the love" so convenient... Even when I was very much part of the whole thing, I tried to promote some action for nature and people, other than just thinking good thoughts and smiling sweetly. Altho I wanted to detach myself from the real world too, but I know that it is not the right way to go, actions speak way louder than words, or in this case, thoughts. Of course praying for good is a good thing, but should be balanced with action and actually help those in need too. And it often does mean some pain for sensitive people to watch the "negative" and sadness (I should know, I tend to pick up the feelings from others), but it really helps when you know that you are doing something about it and the inner balance is still there to draw from even if there sometimes are those bit more painful moments.
Living only half way makes people hollow and not really that compassionate. Ofc then there is nothing wrong with the OWN world, since you close your eyes from everything outside your own little circles.
I know that some of the people who listen her do really support some good causes in real life too. But those are mostly the kind who doesn't follow her teachings word to word, but filter them and use only the "good parts" and balance them with some healthy action too...
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2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...
...All of the secrets will be exposed...
...Government cover-ups will be exposed...
...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...
...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...
...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...
...Filthy waters will be cleaned...
...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/26dayspng.png)
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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My prediction: When the year ends, she will say it was because of all the negative people and also that her followers weren't loving enough. Gotta be someone's fault. ;)
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Yup. She'll tell all the suffering people they just didn't pray hard enough.
Then she'll blame us.
:D
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Funny Spandex ;D
I am most of all looking forward to child labor being completely destroyed before the 31st.
Better stock up on the champagne for the New Year celebration.
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Healing Path Expo:
"Approximately two hundred years ago, North American Indigenous tribes prophesized a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time. That time has arrived according to the Sioux-Salish elders recognizing their predicted Wisdom Keeper as the little fair-haired child Kiesha Crowther........"
http://healingpathexpo.com/speakers.htm
Which prophecy is this?
Is there such a prophecy?
Where is the proof that such a prophecy isn't just conveniently made up?
The burden of providing proof lies with the claimant. Anyone can make stuff up and say it's true, but how can this be proven in a way that is satisfactory to genuine Indiginous Native American tribal elders?
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Which prophecy is this?
Is there such a prophecy?
Where is the proof that such a prophecy isn't just conveniently made up?
The proof that this prophecy was indeed conveniently made up is already given in the phrases you quote, @Spandex:
the Sioux-Salish elders
There is NO nation called 'Sioux-Salish'.
A person who claims to belong to an ndn nation will rather not use the term 'Sioux' but the correct Lakota, Dakota or Nakoda, depending on which nation they belong to.
So if Crowther was ndn in the very first place, she would know who her ancestors are and what the correct terms for the ethnic groups are - and which nations exist and which don't. Which means that there is no way, absolutely no effin way to prove her BS "in a way that is satisfactory to genuine indiginous Native American tribal elders". Crowther is only able to deceive a US/European audience who know Jack Sh*t about ndns, like e.g. there is no 'Sioux-Salish' nation, and therefore no 'Sioux-Salish' elders. The rest of us is laughing so hard at Crowther's BS we're in danger of embarassing ourselves.
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LOL ::)
What I'm wondering is, apart from her abysmal terminology, is there any prophecy at all (recognised by North American Indigenous tribes) that talks about "a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time"?
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LOL ::)
What I'm wondering is, apart from her abysmal terminology, is there any prophecy at all (recognised by North American Indigenous tribes) that talks about "a fair-haired girl would become a great Wisdom Keeper/Teacher in our time"?
I'm thinking it may have to do something with this:
There is yet again something else i want to post here ;D. I'm in contact with some other people who used to be active on the tribe site and i heard a very interesting theory.
In this 'Response to misinformation on the web', the anonymous writer (perhaps Betsey Lewis?) talks about how their group thinks Kiesha Crowther is the incarnation of something very important. Also, i've heard this story some time before about how she would be the fair-haired child from some alleged prophecy. A friend of mine suggested the possibility that they might actually be talking about "White Buffalo Calf Woman". I do know that the site admin Veetkam has recently put a video about White Buffalo Calf Woman, on the Tribe of Many Colors Facebook page (which only has 6 select videos), and also on his own Facebook page for his own 'Crystal Sun' spiritual therapy thingy (which has a lot of different videos). Perhaps he hears more about what goes on behind the scenes, so there may be a connection.
I must clearly state that i have never heard Crowther or anyone else involved with her, talk about this or read anything about it, so don't bother to search for it in her previous messages, videos, websites or whatever. If it turns out that they believe this, they are apparently not that foolish. But it may be possible that this is what they're aiming for, as it does seem to fit this whole construct that they've created around her. Crowther does seem to talk about albino animals quite often, how they are special and sacred, have such a super high "vibration" (Argh! I've become allergic to that word). She's talked about albino buffalo's, whales and some others if i remember correctly... and from what i know, the legend of White Buffalo Calf Woman is associated with... white buffalo's ::) then again, Crowther's speeches and messages are a mishmash of a whole lot of things derived from other sources so don't take my word for it.
Anyway, this is the same video as the one Veetkam uploaded on Facebook.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJrpZi33gnI
Edit: There's another video someone has once posted on the Tribe forums, about the Lakota, White Buffalo Calf Woman and 2012. Yes, an interesting combination. :'(
I haven't watched it, i don't think this kind of stuff is healthy for me right now, but here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VfOa-QyDLMQ
While i believe this was posted by just a regular forum member, it does show (from my point of view) that there is a subliminal tendency towards this stuff in Crowther's messages.
Again, i could be completely wrong on this, it's just a theory. I'm gonna leave this to people who know more about Lakota spirituality. For those of you who will keep an eye on Crowther and her activities; please, also keep an eye out for any talk about this. I've got the feeling that this might cause a lot of uproar if this is what they truly believe.
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Can someone give me insight on this?
It's pretty easy for people who know Native ways to reach a conclusion that LG is not quite authentic to the point of being categorized as plastic, wannabe 'shaman', etc. Her claims of Salish-Lakota background, being authorized by 'Continental Council', the prophecy about the 'fair-haired girl', claiming she knows all these native elders, living in the woods for two years with animals bringing her food, the story of the owl dying in her arms with it's claw in her heart that she always wears (Lakota will not go near owl medicine), being made this spokesperson after a single four day fast (paleeze), are far enough outside of the ordinary and of the Native ways that they cannot be accepted as truth without some proof from her and witnesses.
What I really don't get is how so many people react when you try to bring up pointed concerns about LG with them on the Internet.
Common responses you can get include:
- Her history does not matter, that's just her story
- You must not be acting from your heart if you question her
- You need to use the eyes of love
If you question what LG is doing you get these responses and it's mind-boggling to me. Are people really that desperate for words of comfort regardless of whether they are true? Are people really that gullible to accept anything that someone who claims to be a kind of messiah will say? When you accept 'spiritual' messages are you supposed to check you discernment at the door?
Really, what most of these folks who follow LG do not understand is that it is not my pleasure to bring up that LG seems to not be authentic. I would much rather she had not made any of these claims or used medicine shields in her talks, nor buckskin during ceremony, or used tee-pees, and let her have her busine$$ and her followers, and let things play out as they would.
Any input is greatly appreciated. I cannot fathom that creator would want us to only follow our hearts and not use all of our faculties including our minds. Mind and heart need each other to live in balance. We need our entire being to be integrated. And we need to look inside ourselves and to creator for guidance, not to follow someone who sounds nice and makes us feel good.
As a two-legged who sees that parts of LG's message are not quite right my challenge is to respond to the imbalance but to do so in Love. Love does not mean you can BS me. It means I Love you but that if you are not being your own authentic being of love and truth that I would say something to you as brother or sister rather then let you hurt yourself or others. As LG is a human being, with my concerns I also wish her blessings of right mind, sincerity of heart, and sound health and happiness.
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Can someone give me insight on this?
Are people really that desperate for words of comfort regardless of whether they are true? Are people really that gullible to accept anything that someone who claims to be a kind of messiah will say? When you accept 'spiritual' messages are you supposed to check you discernment at the door?
As LG is a human being, with my concerns I also wish her blessings of right mind, sincerity of heart, and sound health and happiness.
Unfortunately, yes. People are that needy to reach for anything that makes them feel wanted, loved, and special.
To me, there is a huge hole in the people of this world. And many will ignore their mind in order to feel the least
bit loved. It is very sad that love is so scarce in their respective worlds that the only place they feel they can find
it is in the words of charlatans. The whole picture of this, of people clamoring to the con, is completely reflective,
in my view, of the total lack of care, support, and love in this world. Very sad, but true. They have to make it up
to keep it going. Many frauds don't even know they are frauds because by now, it is generational. One generation
of people taking courses at some shaman on-line school and believing it all true. It is a deepening mess and I hope
it is coming to a head with the 2012 epidemic. Hopefully, as that passes people will begin to question the validity
of ALL this nonsense based on the fact that this event was falsely foretold and sold. But, I am sure many will
cater to the idea that is being sold now.. of there not being enough people intending it, or humankind was simply
not 'ready' and so the 'transcendence' of humanity is postponed. We will see these excuses become more
apparent as the year draws near, and also, after the passing of it.
People need. And if they cannot find what they need in the families and friends around them, then they will
seek it in others.. and unfortunately, this is what the con artist preys upon.
As for wishing people like LG the blessing of a right mind, sincerity of heart and sound health/happiness.. I
too wish that this would occur for the many who seriously are being hood winked. I am not sure if Kiesha is
knowingly, consciously aware that she is lying, or if she suffers some psychosis and actually believes all
this of herself. If she is suffering a mental illness, unfortunately, I don't see where she will have sound
mind unless she concurs and goes to seek mental health help.
For others, the followers of such people, I too can only hope for some degree of insight to lead them to
critical thinking. Perhaps that is the 'awakening' they need.
EDIT: I should have posted this in the ETC section, as it is off the topic in some sense.
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FYI - LG on Swedish National Radio - This is a nuance I'm not sure I heard before. The host kinda guides Kiesha into the topic and Kiesha agrees/implies that Kiesha is a channel for 'Little Grandmother'. ???
http://sverigesradio.se/sida/artikel.aspx?programid=3925&artikel=4135827&play=2705063&playtype=Ljudklipp
Direct URL to audio on this page: http://sverigesradio.se/topsy/ljudfil/2705063.m4a
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Unfortunately, it isn't difficult to get people to believe something by implying it. All you have to do is lay the breadcrumbs and leave people to 'put it all together'.
I've been duped by the same methods myself.
We are told Kiesha is from the Lakota, or as she puts it 'Sioux'.
She says that she was told her coming was prophecied hundreds of years ago.
We are asked to believe that she is here to be a spiritual leader, a Shaman* during 'the end times' of this world, and the start of a New World.
We 'know of' the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman coming from the Lakota,
We are told she would return in the generation signified by white Buffalo calfs (some say 'at the end of time').
At least that's how it is understood by many white folk.
White Buffalo Calf Woman is a teacher who comes when the world is in darkness. At least this is how many white folk understand.
Some are going to see these comparisons and 'follow their hearts'. It will lead them to the wrong conclusions.
There are many people who are spiritually inclined and want to do the right thing for our Earth, who feel drawn to the whole rainbow people idea because it signifies a 'coming together' or gathering together of peoples all around the world. It's a shame that there is fake stuff claiming to be of Native American origin that is being incorporated into this field of consciousness, and that the idea of 'Rainbow Warriors', 'Warriors of the Rainbow', 'Rainbow Family' etc, have dubious origins, as shown in this post:
Philip Deloria in the last chapter of Playing Indian traced the whole Rainbow Warriors claim back to a play written by a Southern Baptist missionary looking to covert NDNs back in the early 60s. It quickly got picked up by hippies, esp the Rainbow Family. Today you often see the quote used for what it was intended for, to bring converts.
The whole rainbow warriors bit get attributed most often to unnamed Hopi or unnamed Cree. Two of the Greenpeace founders claimed to have distant NDN ancestry, and so the quote appealed to them, even naming the Greenpeace ship after it.
As for Chief Seattle, what hasn't been atributed to him? Tons of nonsense sources all over the net and much further back. The Nat'l Archives has this to say.
-----------
http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/1985/spring/chief-seattle.html
.... Despite its popularity, this affirmation of Indian eloquence may not be founded in historical reality........................
This is why I'm so concerned:
For generations of westersers who have become disenchanted and opposed to 'the establishment', in which they include 'the church', and are seeking a return to their roots and a more harmonious relationship to Earth, many feel a great attachment to the idea of a rainbow warrior or rainbow family with all it's implied oneness and light and 'peace after the storm' symbology (also reminiscent of the promise that was signified by the rainbow in Genesis). When they hear from friends or on some internet sites that their 'rainbow people' identity was also prophesied by a people who they know are spiritual and care for the Earth, the idea becomes crystallised in their consciousness as 'a truth' that is validated by Indigenous prophecy.
Now comes along the prophesied Shaman of the Tribe of Many Colours, which is just another way of saying Rainbow Warriors really, and they hear all the messages of how the world is being destroyed. She also claims to have backing by the very people who prophecied their role as a group of people here to do some important work to save the planet.
Her following is in the thousands at the least (facebook = 4,981 friends, and she isn't accepting friend requests). A fraction of people watching her videos. Kiesha 2010 = 127,705 views (not taking into account repeat customers) . This is only going to snowball as 2012 approaches.
Kiesha has been set up to be a teacher/leader, and hijack this whole group of people from all countries which is a figure I can't guess at but imagine is more in the millions than tens of thousands.
I just hope they see through the illusions spun by her and her dodgy elders.
IT ISN'T NECESSARY TO SEEK VALIDATION IN DODGY PROPHECIES TO GIVE YOU STRENGTH
IF YOU WANT TO CALL YOURSELF A RAINBOW WARRIOR, FINE, BUT DON'T LINK IT TO NATIVE AMERICAN PROPHECIES!
YOU WILL BE MISLED!
HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO BE HAPPY BEING YOURSELF, AND NOT THE 'PROPHESIED COMING!'
Kiesha would probably be talking alot about white animals because of
[edit: the things said by some spiritual leaders about white animals]
Shaman*
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/shaman
World English Dictionary
shaman (??æm?n)
— n
1. a priest of shamanism
2. a medicine man of a similar religion, esp among certain tribes of North American Indians
[C17: from Russian shaman, from Tungusian ?saman, from Pali samana Buddhist monk, ultimately from Sanskrit ?rama religious exercise]
(Dictionary.com needs some education, it seems)
(who put the 'sham' in Shaman?)
[edited to remove a quote that was a newager's inaccurate paraphrasing of another's message. - kpn]
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Rainbows have no substance and only last a few moments.
Is that what people are basing their 'new world' on?
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Spandex, I appreciate the information you've compiled, and your sense of humour. But please be careful when posting non-NDNs' misinterpretations or misrepresentations of history, of prophecies, or any of their attempts to paraphrase NDN Elders.
As has been checked by multiple people on the forum, Crowther has no connection to Arvol Lookinghorse. We are pretty certain she has no connection to any Indigenous Elders. I know you didn't imply this, but some of the quotes were unclear.
Crowther's fantasies of White Buffalo Calf Woman are based on misinterpretations, and the gross misunderstandings of an outsider to the L/D/N lifeways.
As for the white animals, I think that's a tangent. I have deleted the newager's paraphrasing of what he thinks Arvol has said about the white animals and the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, as the newager's words were inaccurate and potentially misleading. Arvol can speak for himself on these issues, and does. He speaks English just fine and does not need interpreters. As it's been asked and answered that he has nothing to do with this fraud, I'd rather leave his name out of this entirely.
ETA: For the record, here is a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHqVdZmpRgI&NR=1) of Arvol telling the story of White Buffalo Calf Woman, and discussing the appearance of white animals in recent years. White Buffalo Calf Woman is a black-haired woman, and the prophecy is that she will return as a white buffalo calf.
You may notice that there is no mention of blonde, white women anywhere in the prophecies.
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Thanks Kathryn for making the correction and putting the topic straight. I hope that anyone reading this will see how much the stories we are told on various new-age sites misrepresent the truth and how easy it is to be misled. On the internet it's a matter of 'chinese whispers', and 'new-age frauds' make alot of use of this, knowing how trusting people who just 'follow their heart' without much critical thought can be.
- Spandex
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Thank you for that post, Kathryn! Very well said!
And this is nothing against you, Spandex!
I could tell some horror stories about the "The Indians say....."-quotes that I, myself, passed on in books and lectures during my years "in darkness". :-\ I got out of it, pretty much thanks to NAFPS and by spending time in Native communities. So I KNOW how easy it is to get fooled by all the garbage out there written or interpreted by non-Natives, sticking a "Native label" on everything just to get fame and fortune. I feel really sorry for Native leaders, chiefs, medicinepeople etc that continously see their names connected to lies and fantasies in which they have had no part.
I think it´s important for all of us non-Natives to be extremely careful and go straight to the source. And when we do, I don´t see why the information should be forwarded. Prophecies and "spiritual advice" belongs to the Nation it was given to, UNLESS you have been asked - for some reason - to make it public. And even IF that happened you´d have to make sure it is a joint decision among the Elders. (And why would they ask a non-Native to speak on behalf of them??)
So a sudden phonecall telling you to go out and be a "wisdom keeper" is pretty comical....
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No offence taken, now or in the future! I appreciate it when my erroneous thinking is pointed out....I like it, and it will help to de-brief :o others
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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Oh this post get more comical each day,
No the Lakota/Dakota have no propecies of a
a fair haired girl, no there is no connect to our
white buffalo propecies.
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Maybe they're getting her confused with Cinderella ???
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More bio and background including ('a white father') http://www.mysterious-america.net/littleg'motherin.html
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I wonder if this is a case of early childhood trauma ; the need to be special, delusions ,her stories' lack of coherence . Sad and scary.
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That link has her saying she talks to beings in UFOs, believes in crop circles, and has seen lights from UFOs on a regular basis all her life. She also mentions growing up in a mostly Mormon community. The Mormons have quite a lot of strange roles for NDNs in their prophecies, and an obsession if they somehow can covert many or most NDNs somehow their version of the End Times happens. That, combined with someone whose been seeing visual hallucinations all her life, makes for a convincing explanation in her mind I think.
Some things on that site made me shake my head...
"....this first day of ceremony the heavens truly opened and a these pillars of light I had been seeing for some time began to grow outwardly... until soon they were one large pillar. Many people felt when it happened-- there was a gasp or an intake of breath. There was no denying the presence of the ancestors around us or the massive amount of energy that was flowing from the heavens that day."
That could have come from any TV preacher or other imitator of the story of Moses on Mt Sinai.
And then her ego really gets going. Notice how she claims to direct literally hundreds of Native elders supposedly from all over.
" Most of the men in the circle had no idea what was about to happen and it was probably just as well, since some of them would have probably wanted to exit then and there! I did not envy the men in the circle as I asked them to please stand and join hands. My heart wept for them so deeply as I instructed them on what needed to be done and what was being asked of themÉ to go inward, as deep as they could within themselves and witness all of these atrocities, to witness the grief and pain of the feminine, to feel and release these negative energies, not just in their own lives but for those lives that had come before them throughout history. As I spoke my whole body shuddered as the gut-wrenching sorrow and pain started to build inside of me, as I asked these good-hearted men to do such a hard thing. I must say now that the men in this circle were the strongest and purest hearts I have ever met and I love them deeply. I assured them I did not place any blame on them as individuals and I swore to keep them safe and grounded to Mother Earth and Father Sky the entire time. As I spoke of what needed to happen I had all the woman gather in a larger circle around them "...
The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.
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... That arrogant, that self-deluded, and that racist.
Would all those white people who follow her buy this crap if she claimed she had called together the Catholic College of Cardinals, told them she was the new Pope, and then instructed them in the new way to lead mass? And that the Cardinals had all done as she asked, gratefully, and exclaimed, "Thank you massa! We don' know nuthin' witout YOU!!!"
Only someone for whom NDNs are romantic fantasies (and ignorant, childlike ones, at that) could believe something so patently racist and offensive.
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I know what I'm looking foreward to, having had a ****load of encounters myself :o :-X ......
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...
...All of the secrets will be exposed...
...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/21days.png)
.....or maybe not :'(
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Now she is telling the "tribe" to join her in this: http://www.greatmystery.org/
And wear crystals to connect mother eath, which is sooo important.
(And ofc she is moving to a new house, no wonder, should be able to afford it now...)
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Now she is branching into the Egyptian Sacred-Tourism business:
".......Egypt is magical and mystical and full of vibration and life. I am so excited to experience this place in the physical after being taught so much about it in the spirit realm. My heart is beating with more fervor and more passion just speaking of this place and recalling all of its gifts and promise… What an opportunity this is for not only me but for all those who will attend. Miracles are waiting to happen-- this is a promise!"
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411.html
Q to Kiesha: Is this information you were taught so much about in the spirit realm just for the people who can afford your tour, or are you going to share this wisdom with us all?
(I suppose sharing it now would spoil the surprise for the tourists pilgrims.)
Accompanying Little Grandmother will be the expert guide Mohammed Fayed of Guardian Travel and his team of excellent Egyptologists who have worked for many years with expeditions for the Edgar Cayce Association of Research and Enlightenment...
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411faculty.html
This is the sort of thing that should be expected by tourists to Egypt who who fork out thousands for the privilege:
In Egypt, metaphysical tours are a thriving business, bringing in about 5,000 visitors a year, according to Mohammed Fayed, whose company, Guardian Travel, organized Ms. Billger’s tour. The price, usually a few thousand dollars per person, includes the expense of securing private time at the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx — sometimes thousands of dollars a group for an hour. Mr. Fayed’s business grew 45 percent from 2005 to 2006, and he expects another double-digit increase this year.
NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.
As was prescribed in the training of priests in pharaonic Egypt, the woman had said, each member of the group had taken a turn in the sarcophagus; now she, their spiritual leader, occupied the space. Suddenly, her lips quivered, and a guttural moan escaped them, bouncing off the smooth stone walls and ceiling like an angry pinball. She climbed out of the sarcophagus, her face creased with determination, and formed the group into a circle, sitting cross-legged. In a deep voice, she read from the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, which she believes were translated from the ancient tongue of Atlantis......
Ms. Billger had everyone lie down. “When ye have released the self from the body, rise to the outermost bounds of your earth-plane,” she intoned, “and speak ye the word Dor-E-Lil-La.”
“Dor-E-Lil-La,” the bodies replied.
This was not a cult; the participants had met only two days before. They were in Egypt on a package tour......
“Other groups will be in there with bells and candles, jumping up and down like somebody’s going through their bodies,” Wael Khattab, this group’s Egyptian guide, commented as he observed their ritual from close by. “This is actually quite tame.”,,,,,,
In Egypt, metaphysical tours are a thriving business, bringing in about 5,000 visitors a year, according to Mohammed Fayed, whose company, Guardian Travel, organized Ms. Billger’s tour. The price, usually a few thousand dollars per person, includes the expense of securing private time at the Great Pyramid and the Sphinx — sometimes thousands of dollars a group for an hour. Mr. Fayed’s business grew 45 percent from 2005 to 2006, and he expects another double-digit increase this year.......
Because their beliefs and practices differ so from those of the average tourist, tour organizers are careful to keep the metaphysical tourists, who call themselves “awake,” separate from the regular tourists, whom they refer to as “asleep.” Ms. Billger requires prospective clients to fill out an application in which they agree to support “the group energy for the greatest good of all.”.......
full article (realy worth a read lol) here:
http://travel.nytimes.com/2007/04/29/travel/29spirituality.html?pagewanted=print
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The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.
:o Well, many exploiters have passed by during recent years, wrongfully calling themselves sundance-leaders, medicinepeople or chiefs. But I agree, Al, this takes the prize!! This is sick. Totally sick.
NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.
This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there. (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.
We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!
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This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there. (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.
We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!
I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks. They will walk into the most energetically scummy situations, smiling like bliss-bunnies, totally unaware of what is really there. They usually leave those sites more messed up than when they found them, and leave carrying ugly residues (or sometimes actual spirits) with them. Nasty stuff.
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!
Exactly. They convince themselves they have skills and knowledge they don't have, they have no checks and balances, and it's all pay-to-pray so they don't even have the interdependence and feedback of peers that one has in a traditional community. Any training they've received, if they've received any at all, was usually also pay-to-pray, by similarly deluded people, so they don't have real elders. Most of them, when you mention "Elders" think only of the spirits they think they channel, or objectified POC they met briefly (and maybe got their picture taken with!) at one of those exploitative fake elders gatherings.
And how many of the "spiritual" tourists have even tried to talk to people from the region about what they and their ancestors believed? Or what they believe today? The tourists instead rely on the writings of white English and American occultists, who also "channeled" the information about what ceremonies are to be done there, what the imagined history is, what spirits they think are there and what they will think of outsiders howling in their desecrated tombs.
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This sends shivers down my spine! I have been to that chamber, alone (the pyramid was sealed off for me thanks to an influential friend) and I have hardly ever been that scared. Couldn´t wait to get out. Anyone being the slightest sensitive would feel the presence of spirits in there. (Which probably wouldn´t be that obvious when the room is packed with tourists.) And my personal opinion is that those were NOT good spirits.
We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!
I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks. They will walk into the most energetically scummy situations, smiling like bliss-bunnies, totally unaware of what is really there. They usually leave those sites more messed up than when they found them, and leave carrying ugly residues (or sometimes actual spirits) with them. Nasty stuff.
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!
Exactly. They convince themselves they have skills and knowledge they don't have, they have no checks and balances, and it's all pay-to-pray so they don't even have the interdependence and feedback of peers that one has in a traditional community. Any training they've received, if they've received any at all, was usually also pay-to-pray, by similarly deluded people, so they don't have real elders. Most of them, when you mention "Elders" think only of the spirits they think they channel, or objectified POC they met briefly (and maybe got their picture taken with!) at one of those exploitative fake elders gatherings.
And how many of the "spiritual" tourists have even tried to talk to people from the region about what they and their ancestors believed? Or what they believe today? The tourists instead rely on the writings of white English and American occultists, who also "channeled" the information about what ceremonies are to be done there, what the imagined history is, what spirits they think are there and what they will think of outsiders howling in their desecrated tombs.
and to think.. all this could be avoided, solved, resolved in one very simple action. Respect.
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I wonder if Kiesha will mention to her group, while in the King's Chamber, that it was used by Aleister Crowley to perform the ritual called Goetia, which involves calling on angels and calling up demons.
I wonder if she will use her alleged powers to try and cleanse the place...
if she is as easily subject to her emotions as she portrays in her videos, it could be an interesting experience if she spends some time there alone, as the Great I AM. I wonder what the spirits there will make of her, lol.... 'Good eats'.
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I think these tourists have been seriously pre-conditioned by their group leaders as to what they will experience. I've seen this with a lot of Neopagans and Newagers who believe they are psychic, who think they are sensitive to spirits, but really are not. Most of these people are as sensitive as bricks.
I guess this is the reason for blindly following the frauds? Although a lot of people do not believe in the presence of spirits, they would still be able to feel the vibes/energies/intuition or hear "the inner voice" and thereby stay clear of destructive situations. The name of the "warning system" varies and it doesn´t really matter what we call it. I believe it is there and that most people - often unconciously -pick up on it. But if you do not have that ability, you wouldn´t be able to pick up on the frustration and sadness of the people you exploit. The risk is that you´ll follow "leaders" like Kiesha, thinking her abilities somehow will rub off on you, especially if you pay for it.
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For many, as long as the vibrations of messages resonate within them as light-filled and show a deep connection with our Mother Earth (fluffy-fluff), that's all that matters. They don't see any need for people's identity to be recognized by anyone to be able to carry out the mission of love & light.
They obviously never heard of actors, or considered that they aren't just found in movies, lol.
So they end up following fictions instead of living in the real world.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.
This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.
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I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
Thank you, Ashla on behalf of all of us non-natives for saying it loud and clear from your authority. I will now direct people who keep sending me links to Kiesha's videos and who post her talks on Facebook to this response that you wrote.
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go.
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people
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This White selfrealisation has been going on since the 70' where so called " indians" - they are human beings??? like most people are - all of a sudden were reinvented in the western world.
Everyone coming from a pit in the country, knows everything about racism and how Whiote bourgeous people from the city treat low life farmer children, - you do not have to be indian or black to have experienced that.
I have personally been to 3 Kieshas shows - 2 last summer and 1 here a month ago. They are interesting and by all means a lot of fun - and they are not dangerous and I am not a fool and not a sheep. These comments make me hold my stomach with laugh, when I read them here.
I'm not holding my stomach and laughing. I feel sickened by this woman, because she is going around in her traveling shows, telling people lie after lie. She's defiling something sacred, and twisting it in with new age teachings. If you spent some time talking to ndns, you might understand where we come from and why this bothers us so much. It's hurtful, it's wrong, it's stealing, and so much more. What if I went to Catholic church, stole their ceremony and ritual surrounding the body of Christ, then took it on a road show and made people pay to watch me perform the holy communion? To me, what Kiesha is doing, is equivilant of this. It's sick. There's something wrong with a woman who leaves her two children and husband behind in this world to go out and give these false teachings.
She has not been made a shaman over anyone on the Flathead reserve, and anyone who wants to check into this is free to get the tribal council numbers that I posted and call there and ask. They will tell you they know of no such woman. Her claiming Ninepipes is beyond insanity. I knew she would eventually get to this too. She probably googled "flathead" and other such keywords then came up with it in her searches, sat down and thought ....."Ah yes, that is what I'm going to do, I am going to make myself related to these ancestors, then I will tell everyone".
So you know, I'm not laughing here sir. I am so tired of this, and you are right this has been going on for so long, these appropriations of my people. So you'll have to understand why it's not a joke. We are trying to preserve what we have, our history, our present and our future. I would love to see Kiesha Crowther come to pow wow next year in her regalia and talk to the elders and announce herself as shaman over them. THEN I will be laughing so hard I won't be able to stand up!
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go.
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people
Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.
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Kiesha must have been real busy with googling herself a history and came upon this. If someone else has posted this I apologize as I am about to go off to sleep and will catch up reading the rest later. Thanks.
http://www.historicphotoarchive.com/caps2/00181.html
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Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out.
We could definitely help at least by having it translated into various European languages. I will be happy to do the Czech one.
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go.
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people
Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.
I side with "czech" in this - thank you SO much Ashla and I am deeply sad that your people have been targeted in this awful way! It is happening in my country, Sweden, which makes me even more upset and disappointed.
I will forward your statement to people over here and most definitely post your upcoming video everywhere I can think of. I know good people who will help.
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I know couple of places to post the info as well, I am not too popular with my views about Kiesha's "shamanism" anyway, so might as well back my opinion up with some more info. :)
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Calling the "outsiders" dark ones and non-awekened and "lower" and what ever and saying that their part is to die, because they don't have high enough energy to cope with it (=they don't follow the "teachings" word to word), is not too compassioned thing to do in my point of view either, and it sure isn't "being love". :) We are humans too and we have been hurt as well and maybe we act from "ego" or right/wrong reasons (which ever direction you are looking at it), but I think there weren't supposed to be any judging others in Kiesha's philosophy, so where's our right for compassion? :)
(Another thing, judging is completely different from constructive critic that might help someone grow. If I tell someone I don't like how he/she is acting, that doesn't mean that I judge him/her as a bad person in core.)
I agree with you in all the posts where you describe this as cult like activity. It's very in line with Jim Jones, Wayne Bent, David Koresh, and any other cult out there now teaching people that anyone on the outside is evil or dark. She's using manipulation and fear to gather people up into her fold. I was about to go to sleep but I couldn't stop reading after noticing some words she said about death. This woman is potentially dangerous. She could easily lead an emotional distraught person to their death. She could teach them something and say it's a sacred message about a "shaman's death" and twist it up to make it look good and sacred, next thing you know we have someone taking their own life. Now I do worry and after all of us here see her words on this.
There was a woman a year ago who was going to die for her leader. Her name in the cult was "Esther" and her leader "Michael aka Wayne Bent". They were in a end of the world type cult where the leader spent years upon years manipulating people into believing their only way to be truly holy was to "translate" into the other world to be with God. That meant, starving yourself to death. This woman went on a mission to starve herself to death. It was horrible. Anyway, I can see Kiesha pulling off something like this if she worked on these people enough.
My anger with Kiesha is not as strong as the worry that I feel for the innocent people involved with her.
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We have NO idea what kind of ceremonies took place in that pyramid. Kheops was a tyrannical and cruel ruler, the Hitler of ancient Egypt. And people worship his burielchamber??! Lie down in his grave??!
This is the overall problem, as I see it, with New Agers fooling around with spirits and ceremonies not having a clue what they are doing. There is very little respect for the power they are dealing with, no concern about other people and the way they put them in danger. Scary!
This how it is when some new agers go to places like Palenque, Chichen Itza, Tikal looking for a vision. They gather up with the crystals and drums, and do their meditation work and put reiki on the pyramids. They believe that these places are holy for them, but what they do not understand is the blood sacrifices and the other spirits that are connected to those places. I have to wonder how do the Mayans feel when tourists converge on their sacred sites peforming different ceremonies there that have nothing at all to do with what they believe or their ancestors?
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go.
way to go... I will definitely post this video on my FB account and send out to people
Thanks! I appreciate it. It will take me some time to get it all together. Maybe you guys may want to add in or help out. I've been busy with my family, my mom is not so well so I will do this when time permits.
I side with "czech" in this - thank you SO much Ashla and I am deeply sad that your people have been targeted in this awful way! It is happening in my country, Sweden, which makes me even more upset and disappointed.
I will forward your statement to people over here and most definitely post your upcoming video everywhere I can think of. I know good people who will help.
Thanks , and thanks Saga, Czech. There's some other folks here who have been doing their homework on her and so maybe they want to be involved somehow too. I'll probably check back in awhile and see what you guys think. If I get a response from Kiesha I'll put it here.
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If I get a response from Kiesha I'll put it here.
Thank you, Ashla, I will be very curious if she does respond, and how!
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Just found a photo on her FB-site where she is doing a ceremony with the sacred Channupa.
I hadn´t seen that before. I´ve had the honour of meeting many bundlekeepers among the Lakotas and also the Siksikas - but I´ve never met ONE who would pose with the Channupa like that, letting people take photos during a ceremony.
Most traditionalists would find it highly inappropriate, even dangerous.
Again, playing around with these objects as if they were toys makes me feel extremely uneasy. It is not just about exploitation, fraud and racism (as if that wouldn´t be enough!!) it is about SO much more....
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Just found a photo on her FB-site where she is doing a ceremony with the sacred Channupa.
I hadn´t seen that before. I´ve had the honour of meeting many bundlekeepers among the Lakotas and also the Siksikas - but I´ve never met ONE who would pose with the Channupa like that, letting people take photos during a ceremony.
Most traditionalists would find it highly inappropriate, even dangerous.
Again, playing around with these objects as if they were toys makes me feel extremely uneasy. It is not just about exploitation, fraud and racism (as if that wouldn´t be enough!!) it is about SO much more....
Your right. Her photos are some of the biggest evidence of her lack of knowledge and respect. She is also dressed like a man in several of them. Not that she noticed or anything..
Superdog
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I'm also willing to do translations if you need them, Ashla. Just let me know.
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/advice-of-crystal-usage-now.html
Kiehsa - Little Grandmothers Urgent Advive - to use QUARTS - Crystals NOW:
Mother Earth is awakening.. much is being done in the coming days.. and we Must unite each other in love and to Gaia Beloved Mother.. this is important dear family and i will write extensively on this very soon.. but please.. gather yourselves a piece of quarts crystal and wear it around your neck.. IT is time to reconnect ourselves to Mother..
A small piece of quarts crystal on a simple leather twine or another natural necklace.. it doesn't have to be big.. it can be small.. place it around your neck.. place them on your children.. on your loved ones.. The energy of Mother is bei...ng reclaimed by the loving human being and her crystals, her heart and her link to our own energy is being renewed... this is more important than i can express here.. but do this my family.. and wear it day and night.. There will be more explained at a later date.. but it is time for us to do this now not later.. gather together yourselves and wear once again the crystals that unite us with the Mother Energy of our planet..
Before you place them around your neck hold the crystal in your hands and pray with all of your heart.. all of your goodness all of your Great I AM to connect us the human race in love to the crystals of Mother Earth and Her love, her intentions and Her conciousness! In love wear a bit of sacred mother around your neck.. so that as the crystals are awoken on planet earth this energy will link to you... and we become united as we once were during the days of Atlantis when Mother Earth and Her children were ONE!
Please spread this info to those you love.. Let every member of the Tribe of Many Colors here my words and connect to one another and Mother with a small peice of quarts...
just also to clarify kiesha just posted this on her page the type of quartz ?
A clear quarts crystal.. just clear quarts... and yes please share this info.. the children of men will once again remember who they are and stand... to defend their mother and themselves threw love... we are the ones we have been waiting for and the time is upon us to unite with Mother Gaia again.. let our hearts beat as one.. Clear quartz is what is needed!!l
I wonder what will happen to the people who don't wear any quartz... Will they die as a result of not being upgraded with the sacred Mother Earth Atlantis Crystal energy? ::) or won't they go through intergalactic ascension in 2012, and as a result, be of an inferior race, compared to the highly evolved Tribesmen and Tribeswomen? ??
I haven't looked much but as far as i can tell she is the only person in her... line of work, that's telling her followers to wear crystals. The word CULT seems to be written all over this...
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I haven't looked much but as far as i can tell she is the only person in her... line of work, that's telling her followers to wear crystals. The word CULT is all over this.
She is VERY good, I must give her that. Like having a manual on how to build a cult. Everyone has the same sign/symbol/secret password etc. to show you "belong". And they have to get them NOW. It´s urgent!! Notice the rush?? Don´t give people time to think or discuss between them. Build up the fear, the fear of missing out, being left behind. This is a test from Kiesha´s side to see how much control she has over her disciples. An order and a pretty harsh one embedded in cottonwool so that people won´t notice.....It MIGHT be the first sign that she feels the pressure of being questioned. She really needs to get her troops together, making sure they stay with her.
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I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.
This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.
Thank you, Ashla. Direct testimony from your community (and from the other Nations Crowther falsely claims connections to) is one of our most important ways of counteracting the lies of Crowther and similar frauds.
Yesterday I spent some time looking around the forums where her supporters post. It was very disorienting. I don't understand how they can be so gullible, so clueless, so dismissive of reality. Well, I've spent time thinking about their psychology, so I guess I sort of understand it, but I find it sad and hard to accept.
What Crowther's supporters don't seem to understand is that NDN Country is a tiny place. It's not six degrees of separation, it's more like two. Anyone can find almost anyone with one or two phone calls.
And yes, just like the grannies and grandpas of Europeans, "Native American Elders" have phones.
I realize the European newagers don't know this, but they need to understand: to our NDN members (and even to those of us who are non-NDN but have friends and family in NDN country) "Native American Elders" who live among their people, speak their languages, and know the ancient ceremonies are not some mysterious, mythical creatures. We're not talking about UFO's, Bigfoot and Unicorns; we're talking about our friends and families. "The Native American Elders" are not mythical, hidden, secret beings: they are the brothers, sisters, cousins, aunts, uncles, grannies and grandpas of people we hang out with every day. The friends and families of the Elders are not just giving their personal, isolated opinions; we know who they are and they are accountable to their Elders for their words. Though many people choose to post here anonymously, we do know who most of our members are.
I wish the people on those forums would put down the Lynn Andrews and Castaneda books and realize that you can't fool NDNs who are part of their communities and cultures. The Elders Crowther and her ilk try to exploit are living human beings who a number of our members have on speed dial.
So the only way Crowther can get away with this is if the non-NDNs are so racist and selfish as to ignore what Indigenous people are saying.
Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.
I think this is an excellent idea. Go for it! Please keep us informed, and just give a shout if we can help in any way. :)
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Thank you Ashla.
I'm also willing to help if there is something I can do towards making the video and spreading the truth about this.
I have a little graphic-design experience, but not any experience in making videos. If it's something that can be 'photoshopped' I will do my best. I'm open to private messages.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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I'm not against wearing crystals and have been known to carry them myself because I've always loved them since a child, but this is not a good development in the way it has been initiated.
This is more insidious than her members are going to be willing to acknowledge. I would like to ask them some questions:
If you go to a shop selling crystals and ask your 'Great I AM' to guide you to the right crystal for you, and it isn't a clear quartz crystal, would you wear it instead or does Kiesha's URGENT MESSAGE take precedence to your inner knowing? Is your inner knowing telling you to follow Kiesha's inner knowing above your own?
When you wear it does it give you the feeling of being connected to a special group of people? Be honest about this, if you call them family they are special aren't they? What I'm saying is, is this, in your mind a symbol of your bond to each other as a member of The Tribe Of Many Colours.............who's Shaman is Little Grandmother? Isn't it also a symbol of 'belonging' and group identity?
Now be honest with yourself, is there no 'little' connection to this little crystal and 'little grandmother' as your 'authority'? Anyone of you with any sense who is truly listening to their heart knows what I'm talking about here, but if you don't you need to learn about something that can be referred to as 'cording', 'aka threads', etheric threads', strands etc. They create a network or 'web' along which energy runs, and your thoughts are very important in that respect. So how is your little crystal set up? Who really gave it it's place? Where is the energy going?
Please wake up!
Do you think the Creator needs you to wear a crystal to save the planet?
What if you don't really want to wear a crystal?
Will this in some way mark you as not fulfilling your mission, or make you feel like you don't really 'fit in' ?
Does it give a sense of 'Us' and 'Them' ?
This is cult-like thinking and programming.
(I wonder if Kiesha will be selling clear quartz pendants or crystals which have been specially 'tuned' or 'dedicated' or whatever on a nice chain or 'cord', in the near future, lol)
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It is great to have Ashla here to put across the concerns of her people.
Even then I doubt that Crowther's followers will pay too much attention, they seem to be enchanted by a dream from which they do not wish to wake.
I found this recent video on youtube, apologies if it has been posted before, I searched for the link and nothing came up. It is an interview with Crowther in Slovenia and it was uploaded a week ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MMYq41niQw
The youtube channel has a mix of UFO and aliens videos with biblical prophecies and crowther's videos.
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Do you think the Creator needs you to wear a crystal to save the planet?
What if you don't really want to wear a crystal?
Will this in some way mark you as not fulfilling your mission, or make you feel like you don't really 'fit in' ?
Does it give a sense of 'Us' and 'Them' ?
This is cult-like thinking and programming.
I have to say that I almost gave up with wearing my own quartz crystal, lol. :) Anyway, what I want to comment is... If we are supposed to be here to "balance" the earth and heal it, why would anyone suggest everyone to wear crystals to be part of something, huge spike in selling them means lots and lots of destroying the natural crystal formations on earth. :p And, since I happen to believe in some sort of stone/crystal "vibrations", I'd like to comment that the clear quartz, even if it is kind of a multipurpose crystal, is a bit too sharp to some people and makes them feel uncomfortable, I know it from myself when I am not "ready" for it. I tend to sense some sort of earth energies. Natural stones picked up from the ground or shore tend to work for everyone tho, especially the local stones, does good for "inner child" and all too, to look for the right one. :p Also, connecting to earth... Just go outside and touch it, or touch a tree. :p
And yes, there is a scent of group consciousness rising in this. Very much so. And the ego rising too... "I can command huge amounts of people... wohoo, yay me, I am the GREAT I AM." :p And again, the urgent message is in the form that it is very uncomfortable to let it undone, if taking all the teachings word to word.
Think I'll put the link in these forums to my blog too.
(Edit, deleted the egypt "event" link, since it is already discussed on page 15... Advertised a lot in fb and the "tribes" own site, I hear.)
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Next up, I'll be putting together a youtube about her, and spreading it as far as it will go. I have been very busy with my family recently, and so I will start to work on this and hopefully be done by the new year.
I really want to see this as well Ashla. Have you thought about starting a facebook page or blog about Crowther? It would be a greaty way to spread the word, post messages from elders and other Salish and other NDNs, and all her critics, pointing to every bit of nonsense she's claimed. Having it run by a Salish would be ideal.
Perhaps the best title for such a site would be KieshaCrowtherIsNOTaNativeElder or KieshaCrowtherIsNOTaSalish, or KieshaCrowtherWatch or KieshaCrowtherFraud.
And you already have several people willing to do translations for you so the naive Europeans over there listening to her get the message.
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FYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)
SAMy
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FYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)
SAMy
OMG i've never laughed so hard about anything related to this stuff. I suppose you made these videos? Good job ;D
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There are a number of good videos about Crowther on that channel, and some other videos about cultural misappropriation in general. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs
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Oh, these are good! I subscribed.
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Samy those are great. Those are very good. As I was telling Crescent the other day in PM's, my mom has been very ill and I wanted to do something soon as I can. I appreciate these.
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There are a number of good videos about Crowther on that channel, and some other videos about cultural misappropriation in general. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs
If someone is fluent in Swedish and German there is some English text from the LG vids we posted that need a better translation than can be done online. We can provide English and rough translations of each target language for cleanup. Just a few paragraphs. Pls send PM if you can do it. ;D
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PM coming up, SAMy.
Great videos :)
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Oh, think I'll put link to that channel in my blog too. :) Videos are actually better than the original ones, lots more to laugh... And you know, nothing raise energy more than laughing. ;p Great job!
And omg, the Heaven's gate cult initiation tape sounds almost just like the most new age stuff going around, including the message of "tribe of many colors". :p
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I'm up late setting up a Facebook right now. I'll drop the link here when finished. I'd like it if you could all please join and help me with translations. Thank you all.
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Please come and join, and start posting info, video, links to anything that will help spread the information. Please feel free to spread this link to all interested.
Thanks everyone, and Samy thank you for the video.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Plastic-Shaman/181233948569842?v=wall
If link is not working, the community is named "Kiesha Crowther Plastic Shaman"
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What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related
She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.
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Maybe put the NAFPS link to this thread there too. :) I am gathering courage to join with the real name (yep, the unnecessary guilt of "not believing" all of this this world saving thing is still there :p), altho most of the people already have guessed who I am anyway, I think. :p
Maybe she is trying to be cute in the video? Or helpless, so that the garden growing doesn't sound like command... who knows...
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Thanks Saga. I am not using my name on facebook, as I do not trust the site itself. When I contacted Kiesha through her website, I used my real name and contact info. So she knows who I am and is able to contact me. I have yet to get a response from her. If you are uncomfortable with using your personal facebook to join, you could create a more anonymous one. I know alot of people do not trust the site.
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Well, I have my personal profile and I actually have posted lots of things from NAFPS with it already as well as personal opinions and have the links in my blog too, which I write as Saga... Just kind of weird to so clearly stand against something some of my friends believe is a good thing. :) Here it goes tho. :)
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I have joined - with my real name. But there again, I am already out there with films and books, so I want to be upfront with my feelings. And I have been diced and sliced so many times on Internet, so I just couldn´t care anymore. I know there are people trusting me (hope it´s not wishful thinking ;) ) so maybe my name could add some weight in Sweden as I keep getting emails asking me if Kiesha is the real deal or not. I´ll post the Youtube link to our film, too.
I have translated Ashla´s text to Swedish. Let me know who wants it and I´ll send it over.
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If you want Finnish translations, only need to tell me what to translate and I'll try my best. :)
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The German and Swedish translations of one of our videos is underway. If anyone if fluent in a favorite European language of your choice (you can see from the tribe of many colours ;D site where they are targeting) and you have time to translate a couple of paragraphs from one of the our videos (ShamansAndMessiahs on youtube) please send us a PM. - SAMy
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Ashla, thank you, wonderful job with the FB site, I'm sharing the video on my site. I have also contacted SAMy about Czech translations of the videos they make.
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Thank you all. Looks like the facebook page is off the ground. If anyone is interested in being a co-admins please let me know. There may be times I cannot do much depending on how my mom is doing.
I do have something interesting to share here. As you know I sent Kiesha a message through her site, and have been hoping she'd contact me. Out of curiosity I went by her page again today, and opened up the message form to send her another message asking if she'd reply to my concerns, and this is what I saw this time above the letter form:
*Due to the huge volume of emails Little Grandmother receives daily, she is no longer able to respond to each of your heartfelt messages. But Little Grandmother thanks all of you from her heart and sends her love.
I suppose this means that she won't be responding at all. This was not above the letter form the other day, but now it is and so I will take this to mean she has no intentions of addressing me. I'll keep checking my email daily to see if she does and will update.
I'll check back later tonight ...... and again, thank you very much. Bless your hearts.
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Ashla, thank you, wonderful job with the FB site, I'm sharing the video on my site. I have also contacted SAMy about Czech translations of the videos they make.
This is great, thank you. I have received a PM from another who can help with German. Where is your site, Czech?
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*Due to the huge volume of emails Little Grandmother receives daily, she is no longer able to respond to each of your heartfelt messages.
This was not above the letter form the other day, but now it is and so I will take this to mean she has no intentions of addressing me.
But she clearly got it that your message was definitely heartfelt :)
Thank you Ashla and best wishes to you and your mother, may she be well...
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I've actually written to her too lately, but think she haven't been answering in her mail in ages. :)
Best wishes to your mom and you, Ashla.
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Maybe she is afraid of mixing with the "dark side"**, lol.
I'm not expecting her to come and 'comb the snakes from our hair' any time soon, or 'go amongst the sinners' like holy people of the past did.
Anyone who was really a true 'light-worker' wouldn't be afraid of shining the light in a place of darkness, instead of hiding in the shadows of their ivory tower.
**So people in the forum, how does it feel to be puppets of the "dark side"? I just read from the posts of the followers that we are those. Following the agenda of "dark ones" to most definately break the world in pieces or something...
___________________________________________________________________________________________
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this box)
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Think I am bit off the line here, since I still consider myself as a "light worker" of some kind... Guess I am shining like black sun then. :)
Watched the videos from "our" facebook site and posted in my profile too. Seems that she isn't such a big deal in Finland, but we are so stubborn people that we don't really appreciate people telling us what to think. There were links in couple of places, but there were already some doubtful info added and links to here too, so think the finnish translation isn't as much in hurry as my xmas preparations. :)
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I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.
This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.
If anyone wants to PM us other language translations of this then we can add a language-specific version for the video 'The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother''. You may want to give folks a heads up here to indicate you have taken the language then PM translation to us.
The text would be first for title: The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother'
Then text on inside video: 'Little Grandmother' The ancestors have been watching...
Then the translation of Ashlas text from her post (as above). (Just ensure a vertical blank line between each major section or **** or something to help us know when we are in the next section).
SAMy
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Think I am bit off the line here, since I still consider myself as a "light worker" of some kind... Guess I am shining like black sun then. :)
Me too, totally out of line, which isn't to say I don't have a dark side. My dark side is as dark as my light side is light. What I find disturbing about the nuage version of ancient teachings is that they seem to push the 'dark' away. This only makes it stronger and it will eventually seep out of the cracks. You have to acknowledge it, which isn't to say 'follow' it. Following 'masters' with blinkers on is very stupid, but I suppose they think it's all ok if they 'feel' the love.....
What people are often unwilling to accept is that the most monstrous and abominable characters are able to love as well, and some can even 'love' (very convincingly) 'at will' if it suits them, a bit like having ability to switch to a different personality when desired. Alot of 'lightworkers' who are into the 'fluffylove is All' programming don't see people like this coming, whereas someone they might consider relatively unspiritual might see them coming a mile off. It's a peculiar situation, and tyrants love it. It all starts innocently enough....
(lol @ "black sun". I'm surprised Kiesha hasn't hinted that one of her crystals isn't an ancient Sumerian or Egyptian crystal that used to be kept in an 'Ark'.... ::) Then again she hasn't mentioned the 'Rod of Fate' of the ancient Brahmins either, amongst her references to ancient technology.....yet)
_____________________________________________________________________________________
TY Ashla. I've added the following to one of my posts on each page from when I joined the discussion so people can be directed to this fact:
edited addition 16 dec 2010:
Important, please read:
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click quote link to read in full)
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What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related
She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.
that's the effect of the nitrogen gas covertly pumped through her microphone, to give her that 'butter wouldn't melt in my mouth' sound so sought after in Disney epic characters like 'Little Mermaid........jk
Yes it's interesting that she can talk in a non-'baby' voice when she wants to........but I bet it wouldn't be so effective in evoking an emotional response from her customers.
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If anyone wants to PM us other language translations of this then we can add a language-specific version for the video 'The Ancestors are watching you 'Little Grandmother''. You may want to give folks a heads up here to indicate you have taken the language then PM translation to us.
Swedish translation is done. Thanks, SAMy, for all the work!!
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FYI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpEsnJ39Y9k)
SAMy
OMG i've never laughed so hard about anything related to this stuff. I suppose you made these videos? Good job ;D
As of today SAMy temporarily de-listing that video on youtube. It's still there and watchable. But SAMy is feeling that we want to lead off the public message on our channel regarding LG with the other two videos and more translations of them for now. One person, as an example, who saw the video, took it very badly (could not see the humor or perhaps the truth). SAMy wants to get people to open their eyes and not shut down to the message. So that's our 'friends and family' (and visitors/lurkers here) video for now. SAMy is spinning up more spoofs not quite so to the core as the mashup spoof at that URL. And at least one of the new vids is planned to have a 'guest'/spoofed appearance of a famous hollywood star. ;-)
SAMy
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I think the baby voice is because she wants people to see her as innocent, simply "called" to the task of being a cult leader, and that she would never think of deceiving < baby voice > anny-wun < / baby voice >.
And I think it works on some people - makes them feel protective of her. I mean, note the name she chose for herself: "Little" combined with the preposterous "Grandmother" (yes I know it's possible to have a grandchild by the time you're thirty, but, really.) Those are words that attempt to broadcast, "I'm harmless, I couldn't hurt anyone, I need to be protected." [cue the tears]
Whereas many of the male shameons and cult leaders go for the big, macho, obvious power trip, her schtick is more insidious. I think it's designed to make people underestimate her while she empties their pockets and messes with their heads.
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For sure on the appearing harmless aspect. It obviously works on alot of people, and worked on me until I found this forum too.
Hi SAMy, that's cool. I know it's very tempting, and something I also can't resist at times to 'poke fun' as a reaction to how appalled we are with her antics (my nitrogen comment and rainbow arrow countdowns), but it's true that this may alienate others who just aren't in that 'frame of mind' and are also brainwashed to 'change the channel' from any criticism of her at all. It's really difficult not to react by showing how ridiculous and comical it all is.
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2.png)
sorry, but I just couldn't resist it, lol.
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...
...All of the secrets will be exposed...
...Government cover-ups will be exposed...
...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...
...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...
...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...
...Filthy waters will be cleaned...
...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."
We have been waiting.....and waiting......... ???
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SAMy, lots of people on Facebook are posting the videos :-)
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Me too, totally out of line, which isn't to say I don't have a dark side. My dark side is as dark as my light side is light. What I find disturbing about the nuage version of ancient teachings is that they seem to push the 'dark' away. This only makes it stronger and it will eventually seep out of the cracks. You have to acknowledge it, which isn't to say 'follow' it. Following 'masters' with blinkers on is very stupid, but I suppose they think it's all ok if they 'feel' the love.....
Yes, I agree with this. Also, what you ignore or have obsession to avoid, usually comes haunting at some point or you get so obsessed with it that you start to draw it in. Look at some catholic priests... forbidden to have sex and all over obsessed with it. Or the ego maniac preachers who tell you that you should banish your ego and in the mean time butter their own. :) I also have a dark side, guess the balance comes from accepting it and do your best anyway, even when none is watching in awe. ;)
And I agree with the funny aspect as well, but it wont be at all comical to someone who takes it very seriously really. For me everything is bit comical tho. At least now, again, getting back on track with myself. :)
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(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2.png)
[
LOL I love your countdown, Spandex.
Actually, I think it has started....
"All of the secrets will be exposed" - That would be the truth about a certain Little Grandmother.
"Government cover ups will be exposed" - Wikileaks?
"Filthy waters will be cleaned" - this would be our well that we had drilled 6 months ago, the water is finally clearing up!
"Child labor will be destroyed" - and this is my friend´s little son who won´t run errands for me anymore. Damn it!!
See.....?! I am totally stunned. Isn´t this exciting?? :)
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lol Freija, that's undeniable!
I love the video of the Elders watching. It beggars belief that someone who preaches about the Ancestors obviously doesn't take them seriously and uses them as part of a message that sells seats at nuage talks. Do none of these 'shame-ns' realise that the Ancestors are a power to be reckoned with? Sheesh....
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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Yeh. Great. Thanks for vids and facebook site. I am on FB with my real name. And have been posting on a KC site.. I see someone else has also and posted vid. This is really good. Loads of people from all over the world are connected to FB. And although I know NAFPS mods are very busy, I still think a FB Nafps site is needed. Not to serve as a forum for research, but to put out the message on those who are without doubt frauds. Just my O. Thanks for all of this !! :D
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The videos are great! I especially love the "ancestors are watching you" one 8)
For boundary reasons to do with safety I will have to think about what to do about facebook and youtube.
This may necessitate me setting up new facebook and youtube accounts, I can't do it tonight but I should be able to do it very soon.
If there's anything else I can do please let me know :)
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What is wrong with her voice in this video? She sounds very odd here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c72Pg_RabL8&feature=related
She speaks in a baby voice, and sometimes a southern accent slips in.
I didn't get baby talk, what I was hearing was a very poor attempt at a rez accent.
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Okay I am going to be a parade rainer-oner. The videos are excellent, there's only one issue I have. In at least one there is the crying 'indian' from the commercials in the 70s. The guy was Italian. Maybe I am being a stickler and a bit of a jerk, and It is not my intention to hurt anyones feelings. I just think exposing a fraud with the image of a fraud is kind of counter productive. I am watching on an iPod and had oral surgery yesterday so if the image is not that Italian fake Indian guy I apologize.
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Google Iron Eyes Cody.
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Thanks everyone, and Spandex~Atom, for the laughs lol
I would like to thank Ingeborg for the german translation which I will post to fb tonight. It's long so I may post this as an image. I do not have time to run a blog separate of the facebook page so anyone feel free to take and use on their sites/blogs. Crescent, thanks to you too.
The community on FB is everyone's community.... if anyone would like to CO admins this page with me, please let me know. I tend to get busy and need all the bases covered. If you see something I don't just post it. Thank you again!
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Well dearies, just when we thought we were gonna do only translations for the two videos for awhile we spent this evening mixing up a nice little video just for you (it's unlisted, we can make it public after getting some feedback from you). You see Momma bear showed up after work and started showin us how to put in all kinds of medicine. Momma really wanted to play it up so we let her have her way. You know how momma is when someone starts messing with those cubs and trying to pass themselves of as someone they aint.
Well, she brought along a dear heyoka friend of hers and he had some medicine too. The video is their mostly work. We listened to them and put it together. We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much.... I can't really say the heyoka made us do it. ;-) The video is fast paced like most media is. We figure we've got a few minutes for the remedy to work.
Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E
SAMy
P.S. We were up late on this one. We have been working on translations with individual members. These are still a priority but it may take us a couple days to finish what was already sent. If you still want to do one please go ahead and send it. Maybe you want to post the translations into the site? [moderators speak up?] Two of the video translations are waiting on members to confirm that the translated video up on youtube [not yet public] are correct.
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Here is the 'Urgent Message' - "Response to Misinformation" that is on Ms. Crowther's, Tribe of Many Colors web page.
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html)
Dear Friends of Tribe of Many Colors
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written about me on a particular web site (fraud site). I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such negative and ridiculous claims… But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read them without knowing the truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully misled. It is so sad to me that people would spend their time trying to damage the names of those who are working so hard in the world to simply spread the message of love, but I also know as long as there is good and love in the world there will also be negativity, darkness, cynicism... I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for them, as I always have asked, and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done. The list of outlandish remarks (such as that I wear a microphone in one photo and so must be a fraud!) go on and on… many are too shallow to justify with a response. Others who are also being attacked on this site are some of the most beautiful beings on our planet, such as the 13 Indigenous Grandmothers, the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, Adam Yellow Bird, Drunvalo Melchizadek, all of whom all spend their lives dedicated to raising consciousness, awareness and love vibration. For the benefit of those who do not know me, and for those who support me but have been troubled by this sudden cropping up of negativity, please read the message below where we would like to set the record straight on a few matters, so that you do not carry doubt in your hearts and minds!.
With love and so much heart-felt gratitude,
Kiesha (Little Grandmother)
Response to Recent Misinformation on the Web about Little Grandmother
A very negative “forum” on the web has decided to categorize various spiritual teachers, leaders, and figures as “frauds” based on speculation, subjective opinion, and hackneyed misinformation. Recently this web site added Little Grandmother (Kiesha Crowther) to this list; We are extremely disheartened by the blatantly inaccurate and false allegations made by a few individuals in this forum, which have nevertheless been reaching the ears of many. Therefore we want to address some of the core allegations raised. While we know that such negative attacks are bound to arise in relation to becoming well-known on the internet, especially with the sensitive subjects that Kiesha is speaking of—such baseless attacks nevertheless cast a shadow and a doubt in people’s minds, regardless of their truth or validity—This is unfortunate, and one of the down-sides to the internet!
Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?
Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and recognized as a shaman by the elders of this tribe at age 30 (she had actually been recognized and marked out at age 8 as a future shaman while attending a tribal ceremony.) However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”. The elders were full aware that Kiesha did not know the indigenous ways… She was never intended to lead traditional ceremony in a tribal context, or to present herself as a representative of her particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of her tribe’s traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but especially since she has become well-known, Kiesha has tried to never present or describe herself as a Sioux or Salish shaman. She is a Native American shaman, and this would be technically correct to say since she is part-Native American and was made shaman by her family’s tribe—However, she does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways. But she does not pretend to know or to follow the traditions to a T. That is not her role and purpose. If it were she would have been summoned to move back to Montana and live among the tribe, serving as shaman there. While tribal members do occasionally seek her out and are referred to her for counsel, blessings, and healings (offered freely of course), her primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds. Beyond her work as shaman, one of her major roles as wisdom-keeper is to speak and share the “messages” she receives with people all over the planet.
Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Not only has Kiesha been recognized by her family’s tribe as a shaman; in addition, she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since. These peoples regard her as the incarnation of something very important—which Keisha has never wanted to make public or to give weight to. Frankly, the weight and responsibility of what many of these peoples regard her as is extremely intimidating to her and makes her anxious.
Kiesha’s elders are not from just one tribe—She is being guided by elders who comprise the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders from indigenous peoples all over the planet, as well as receiving direct teaching from spirit guides and indigenous elders past of several different traditions, including the Sioux and Salish. Whether this seems incredible and unbelievable to some, this is the case—If some people think that matters of utmost sacredness should conform to our cultural expectations and prerogatives, that Kiesha should be teaching tribal ways and if she is not then she cannot be a legitimate shaman and wisdom keeper--no one will be able to convince them otherwise. I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past. Why was a young white-looking woman who is not a full-blooded “Indian” and who grew up away from her ancestral tribe recognized as shaman by the tribal elders? This is a question to ask those who made her as shaman—she did not decide to become a shaman one day but was called to be.
Why do some Native Americans not know of her, and why do some Native Americans question her legitimacy?
Kiesha has received overwhelming support from indigenous people of many many tribes… There will always be individuals, both Native and non-Native, who question, who judge, who think that Kiesha is another white “imposter” appropriating Native American ways for profit. Unfortunately our culture has too much of this, and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff. Some people will be justifiably miffed that such a blond young white woman, not raised on the reservation, would be made shaman… passing over more suitable and appropriate candidates-- this might be the feeling of some people in her own family’s tribe, especially as many of them do not know her. But Kiesha, while Native American by blood and initiated by her family’s tribe, does not presume or pretend to present traditional Native ways and wisdom to the public. What she is speaking of includes and yet goes beyond indigenous prophecies and wisdom, and she does not teach the spiritual ways and customs of any particular tribe, but the wisdom she is taught by her spirit guides and asked to share, that crosses cultural boundaries. She is not implying that it is not important to preserve and present indigenous traditions in their fullness and purity, but only that it is not her role to do so, since she is not working in a tribal context but in a multicultural context. With utmost respect for her ancestral traditions, and for indigenous wisdom and ways, she has been taught that the time has come for all people to unite as children of one Mother, and to recognize a common brotherhood within the heart’s wisdom—that is neither indigenous nor non-indigenous, though the indigenous peoples of the earth hold powerful keys in remembering the way.
Who Are This Council, and Do They Really Exist?
Kiesha receives direction and guidance about the crystal ceremonies she needs to conduct on the planet, as well as other spiritual matters, from the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders, and from her own spirit guides. This Council does exist, whether or not they have an organization signified by a web site, nonprofit status, membership roster, charter and mission statement. If you look for them on the web you will find little. These are some of the wisest and most evolved elders from indigenous peoples all over the planet; they do not use the internet; they meet sometimes in the physical and sometimes on the etheric levels; yet they are real people, some of them well-known and powerful spiritual figures in the world. Again, we realize that for a skeptic this will not be sufficient proof and anything less than a membership roster will not convince them that this Council exists, nor that they are doing work of global and cosmic significance, however mysterious it appears. While skepticism can be healthy, and transparency is necessary on the societal level of religion, culture and politics, there are nonetheless many spiritual and cosmic good works underway by individuals and groups of individuals that cannot be made known to the internet masses—it would thwart what they are trying to do, and the “under the radar” nature of much that is happening and needs to happen on the planet right now. If Kiesha could reveal who is on this Council, (at least those she knows of and has spoken with), she would—but that is not her place to do so. If they decide to make themselves known, they will. Even she does not know all of those who are on this Council, and how exactly they meet, communicate and work. But she is guided by elders on this Council who communicate with her, sometimes through a translator, and also etherically, and she has been told that she is one of 12 “wisdom-keepers” who have been taught similar things by the ancestors and Mother Earth since they were children, and who have a special role to play on the planet at this time. Little Grandmother’s role, as you might imagine, has to do with communication of spiritual information and planetary messages on a large scale. In the end, you must use your heart to decide about the existence, authenticity and legitimacy of this Council of wise beings who are working for the benefit of the planet right now. May your eyes be open, and may you listen for the truth from your deepest hearts."
After reading this I have to conclude that Kiehsa Crowther has been duped and believes in those who have been shown here to be frauds. Perhaps this will serve as a wake-up call for her. Just to quote an old Led Zeppelin song "There's still time to change the road you're on" :-\
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We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much....
I loved that bit :)
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Yes I read Kiesha's "urgent message" and I see she's trying to back pedal her way out of this by saying she's "Tribe of the many colors", and "not intended to perform traditional ceremonies". What does she think smoking the sacred Chanupa is?
What "shamans" got together and told her to make a "tribe of many colors"?
She's calling herself Sioux and Salish. What band? Does she know? She should, if she has been made "Shaman" over the people.
She says she doesn't use the language, well shouldn't one know the language if they choose to carry a sacred pipe?
She then says this: If it were she would have been summoned to move back to Montana and live among the tribe, serving as shaman there. While tribal members do occasionally seek her out and are referred to her for counsel, blessings, and healings (offered freely of course), her primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—
She's never lived among the people or suffered with them. She's clueless. She's the ultimate wasicu, taking and taking and living with her white privilege. No one has summoned this liar to move to Montana because they don't know her.
There are threads all over the internet of this woman and her teachings about end times. She's telling people that the "high Mayan council" that has not spoken for 500 years, is starting to speak about two days of darkness coming.
In case I forgot to mention, the wall on facebook is open to all to be able to post information and start discussions.
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Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E
SAMy
P.S. We were up late on this one. We have been working on translations with individual members. These are still a priority but it may take us a couple days to finish what was already sent. If you still want to do one please go ahead and send it. Maybe you want to post the translations into the site? [moderators speak up?] Two of the video translations are waiting on members to confirm that the translated video up on youtube [not yet public] are correct.
lol oh man this was very good.
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We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much....
I loved that bit :)
So did I!! A REAL grandmother showing the sacred sign. ;D ;D ;D
The video was great, where do you guys find all that crazy stuff?
Hugs to you and thanks for the laughs.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E
SAMy
Thanks SAMy, this medicine is just TOO FUNNY!
About the answer on her website - this kind of stuff was totally expected:
But she is guided by elders on this Council who communicate with her, sometimes through a translator, and also etherically
There's no arguing that, is there :-\
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Without trying to have this thread moved to the Comedy Chanel section, watching Kiesha's followers attending one of her "ceremonies" on a photo in one of the videos and the humor in them reminded me of this film classic... of course, psychologically, this guy had the opposite problem than Kiesha...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uMJYQ9LKGQ&feature=fvst
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THIS is REAL beauty!:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/realgrandmother.jpg)
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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Yes I read Kiesha's "urgent message" and I see she's trying to back pedal her way out of this by saying she's "Tribe of the many colors", and "not intended to perform traditional ceremonies".
In addition to using sacred objects and giving the "native feeling" in a way we white people expect to get it, she also feels the desperate need to have all the tribes and elders backing her message up as an ancient teaching, all of it too. I'd take that as trying to be "authentic" as well...
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Good morning all.
The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TwilightToStarlight/Capture-8.jpg)
I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.
At any rate, this is for you Kiesha, and all of your disgraceful followers, who choose to disrespect the oyate.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/TwilightToStarlight/SalishMen.jpg)
I suppose now, I will take another direction in order to counter and voice my concerns about Kiesha's reckless and disrespectful use of my heritage.
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If it wasn't for her claims to heritage and being the "chosen one" etc, she wouldn't be able to fool people so easily. That's why she has to dress up the way she does and mix in references to the Native American in her workshops and ceremonies. If she just used her imagination and did something that doesn't steal these things from others (they weren't given), she wouldn't have her following or be able to rake in what appears to be five figure sums of money at her workshops.
Seeing pictures of her in the 'early days' of her business venture and ones now, it's obvious to me that her new lifestyle isn't aggreeing with her.
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Think the "tribe" of hers has spoken then, they have been around voting pages down, even the LG fan pages, since she doesn't allow "separation" in many pages. :p
Videos are awesome btw. :) I have the links in my blog at least, might have to write something about the business and advertize it a bit more.
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Sorry it got removed Ashla, though it's not a big surprise.
We will still get the message through to those who are able to make the first step away from her movement
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I'm thinking I'll start working on a website, and will continue spreading the videos and information around. There are alot of message forums out there... and if you google her there are alot of threads where people are already discussing her as a fake.
I wish there was a way to get some people together to go to her "workshop" in Feb. The one she's charging $195 USD to find out your totem animal and other such nonsense.
Would like to see Kiesha's face when the people start showing up to her gatherings to ask her questions.
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The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.
I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.
It's not fair but we can spread the word even without that community...
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Thanks Spandex~
Your humor here has been a blessing :) Thanks for the much needed laugh this morning up there ^
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Why not dispute the account being closed with facebook. I'd put up a stink about it and link them to this page. I read through your suggestion for posters to remain respectful. Facebook has clearly posted rules and the premise that you set up for your page didn't violate those rules. They should contact you with the reasons it was shut down and if they don't, contact them and ask for concise reasoning why...which rule did you violate and make your case that you didn't violate it. You can always open another page as well.
Superdog
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Thanks SAMy, this medicine is just TOO FUNNY!
Ok, this one is now public.
What folks don't understand is that this is not just about KC/LG. There is something deeper and mythic going on. The Earth is expressed through the First Nations communities. If you say you love the Earth and disrespect the First Nations then you are two-faced and lying. And what's really funny here is that the name 'Little Grandmother' is such a miss-fit, a ruse. Kiesha is not an elder by community or by age. That whole name angle starts a kind of mind-game and a snare. Accept that she is 'little grandmother' and you've just opened up your mind to a whole lotta junk. Once you believe the name everything else comes with it. But the medicine here to remedy you includes many things especially storytelling and laughter. SAMy plans a video to tell that story. Storyteller is coming back to the land. Stories, the oral tradition, is the core of wisdom in the world, not books, videos, paying for 'ceremonies', or such.
If KC and her followers, or other interested folk, want to start getting the real teachings then you can go see an elder. If you can't get to an elder then there is one place you can go to start your detox that SAMy recommends. The movie Dreamkeeper (2003) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309150/ (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309150/) .
To the group... Sorry but not surprised to hear about the FB pages. Would advise either doing more on youtube or own site. If you want your own site and don't know how to get started PM me.
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Does anyone live within reasonable driving distance of Alamosa, Colorado? Please pm me if you do or know of somebody that does.
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Just one little sentence from her lengthy and obfuscative message:
Response to Misinformation
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
"......I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for them, as I always have asked, and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done....."
NOT GOOD ENOUGH!!!
We ask the readers to listen to what is in the hearts of the true Native American people, and educate themselves here on what is being said and done by Kiesha Crowther that is despicable to THEM! What is true for THEM!
In 'I AM' terms, your Great I AM is not more important than the Great I AM of the people Kiesha is insulting with her fakery, Wake up! It's time to 'GET IT'!. The great 'ME' consciousness just doesn't cut it really does it? How about 'WE' ? By following Kiesha you are disrespecting the very people who are holding sacred knowledge you wish to respect. You are a contradiction.
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Just start a new KC page and change the title a bit. I looked I don't see where to contact FB to tell them to put the page back, OR remove ALL of the KC pages..
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I contacted FB in Suggestions, Pages. I asked why they removed it and why they are not allowing Native Americans to speak out against such a fraud. I asked if they will remove ALL of KC's pages.. and I stated that it might be worth while to look at the law regarding their support of a fraud.
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I SO do not like to be silenced.
This made my vikingblood simmer.....
(Just wait till it boils!)
I am thinking about what to do and I have an idea.
What I would like your help with, those of you who are Natives, would you PLEASE send me a short statement for the web why you would like Kiesha to stop exploiting the cultures and the ceremonies. Please keep it respectful. Explain from the basic level why it is hurtful. If you would like to state what nation you´re from, I´d be grateful.
I can put a website up, but all of you who know me also know that I do not want to speak on behalf of Natives. I´d like to help you get the word out, but I prefer those words being yours. Not mine.
After books, lectures and films I´ve met SO many New Age people and if things go well there is another European tour coming up next fall. I know there is a way to reach these people. If you would like to help me try, I´d really appreciate it. Just send me a PM.
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If I was you I would definitely restart the page under another name - when we started the page on myspace about Suraj Holzworth, we gave it a completely different name. It was never messed with or taken down by myspace.
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Facebook Farcebook seem to have their standards badly skewed. It's ok to have pages like:
Hitler hated juice. Not Jews. Pronounciation causes mass homocides.
Page
13,818 people like this.
but not a page that warns people about a con artist?
Cat, that sounds like a good idea.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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One possible strategy might be to report Crowther's facebook pages
at the bottom of every page is a report this page option
so go here
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821
scroll down to the bottom
report the page
thank select
targets a race or ethnicity
then send the report
It doesn't solve everything but if we all do it and get our friends to do it maybe facebook will take some notice
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...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciousness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.
Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!
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?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.
Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!
The fact that Crowther is stealing from native people and misrepresenting and disrespecting their beliefs and culture seems to have gone entirely over your head.
Let me ask you a question.
If someone broke into your family's home and disrespected them, stole their belongings and then told them that their anger was due to unconscious projections how would you feel about that?
Also, do you actually understand that some things are morally wrong and that it is a good thing to challenge them or do you live your life in some morality free newage utopia?
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Hi Feder Talancon,
Do you realize how none of Kiesha's predictions for the year 2010 have turned out to be correct? As you seem to know this 'Consciousness' so well, you must realize that these claims about worldwide tribal recognition and false prophecies are not even remotely in line with this Consciousness, right?
Have you read through all the pages here?
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?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level...
So does this mean that people are suppose to just sit there and let people lie, misuse and abuse? How can that possibly be acceptable?
whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth,
But what if one is trying to defend and protect the Truth?
awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
If a person is claiming to be the great I AM, wouldn't you say that they are ego driven?
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.
Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!
Okay I am completely confused. Kiesha does not tell the truth. She outright lies and lies by omission. But she is enlightened? Does being a not so accomplished liar and spreading rhetoric that has already been spewed from countless other frauds makes her enlightened? When I think of an enlightened person I think of people like my elders and people like the dalai lama, people who do not charge for their wisdom and are honest about it. What about her promoting the wearing of quartz crystals? Do you realize that ramifications of blast and flume mining? Do you care about the environmental impact since you obviously do not care about the cultural impact of her conduct?
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?...People that use judgmaental language, that criticize, suffer or complain because of other people's "wrong actions", are obviously expressing unconsciously from an ego driven level... whenever this happens, the responsability of Consciou ...sness driven people is to remain in intense whole Presence, humbly comprehending their painful confusion and responding with Love by recognizing that it's NOT really them expressing, is the collective unconsciousness using them, and hoping that someday they will know the Truth, awaken people also need to avoid reacting egoistically to this motions, by allowing the high vibrational energy of the emerging Consciousness, to transmute that ego driven low vibrational energy into Consciousness, or at least stoppong it from being refueled and growing.
...this can lead us to the conlclusion that when enlightened people express them selves in public, of course they may be furiously attacked or subliminally ridiculized by this ego driven people... maybe that could be what happens when Kiesha Crowther shares the Messages... I guess.
Be aware!
Keep inquiring!
Stay focused!
ok. i'm not stupid, but i have reread your post 3, 4 times and am still trying to
figure out what that string of words is supposed to mean.
fortunately, you gave a clue in the last part of it. i thought?
but then you finalize by telling us to be aware, keep inquiring, and stay focused. so...
you are supporting us to remain aware of frauds like KC, to keep asking them questions,
and to stay focused on our aim to expose the likes of these folk?
just not sure if you are saying KC & Co. are the 'ego people' cuz KC took Ashla's page down,
believes she is the creator, lays claim to being the whole world's 'shaman', believes she
knows more about every culture than those who are of that culture, and attacks anyone who
questions her. just to name a few..
but then, if that's the case... then you are saying 'we' are the 'enlightened people'..
and i take offense at that. seriously.
btw, who are you to walk around calling out who is enlightened?
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Good morning all.
The facebook account was disabled and the community removed.
I am very disturbed by the fact that Kiesha is allowed to have a photo of herself posted with the sacred Chanupa on her community, yet I'm not allowed to run a community countering that or speaking out against it.
SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ul25uvOyRj0
( Sorry, had to fix a minor glitch in the original. Enjoy )
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SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg
That was awesome!!!!!
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SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg
your videos are genius.
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another vote for awesomeness here 8)
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I wanted to stop in and thank all of you for your support and messages. My mom is going to be admitted to the hospital this evening. I will be off the internet for a little while. I'll be back to re-group and figure out what I'm going to to next but in the meantime, anyone may feel free to set up a FB page. You are free to use my words here on this forum. Thanks again.
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How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?
Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet. On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)
DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website. NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this. We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
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SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaHx-FHIAfg
:D :D :D
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How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?
Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet. On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)
DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website. NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this. We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.
ETA: If you click on "Gallery" you'll see the drawings are signed. Should be easy to compare signatures. Though I note the signatures on some of the drawings are different from one another. Some people's signatures change over time. But if it changes back and forth... that can be a sign of something else.
Could this be the owl she says died on her whilst clawing her in the chest?
(http://images.artwanted.com/large/78/22948_452378.jpg)
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I wanted to stop in and thank all of you for your support and messages. My mom is going to be admitted to the hospital this evening. I will be off the internet for a little while. I'll be back to re-group and figure out what I'm going to to next but in the meantime, anyone may feel free to set up a FB page. You are free to use my words here on this forum. Thanks again.
Ashla, sending you, your mother and the rest of your family my best wishes from across the ocean.
Take care of yourself, come back to us when you´re ready. Hope everything will be fine with your Mum.
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nice find sky 8)
Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.
I was thinking exactly the same thing
The university where Crowther obtained her MA is an online degree mill. Unsurprisingly.
I will be thinking of you and your mum Ashla, I hope everything goes well for you both and send you love from across the pond.
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Yes, Ashla, prayers and good thoughts for you and your mom. Be well.
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Ashla, prayers are going with you and your mother. I don't have any bad feelings about her visit. Try to rest when you can. blessings to you both.
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Having obtained Kiesha's maiden name through a public research website I contacted CSKT's enrollment office @ (406) 275-2750. They have no one, NO ONE enrolled with Kiesha's maiden name. I did not ask if Kiesha was enrolled, she has stated herself that she was not, but asked if there was any women enrolled with her maiden surname. None, nada, zil, zip, zero members enrolled with her maiden surname.
Kiesha, if you are reading this I would recommend you read up on just what can happen to you if you violate the civil rights of the CSKT people in accordance with their Tribal Law Codes - http://www.cskt.org/documents/laws-codified.pdf. Happy reading ;D
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Would it be a good idea if someone is somewhat close (distance) to a tribal office (esp I guess Salish and 'Sioux') to ask a spokesperson to speak on video, or on audio, or issue a written statement on LG ?
I'd express mail out a small flip video camera or mp3 recorder to borrow just for that.
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How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?
Evidently prior to being summoned as the savior of the world she was a humble artist and poet. On her bio there is no mention of her super powers. http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio (http://www.artwanted.com/artist.cfm?ArtID=22948&Tab=Bio)
DISCLAIMER - there is a phone number included on the above website. NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this. We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
Humble even then. Note the similar tone to the current bios. Though the claims are different, the spin is the same.
ETA: If you click on "Gallery" you'll see the drawings are signed. Should be easy to compare signatures. Though I note the signatures on some of the drawings are different from one another. Some people's signatures change over time. But if it changes back and forth... that can be a sign of something else.
To me the changing signatures are just the usual attempts of an artist who is looking for an impressive looking signiature to sign their artwork with. Her drawing skill is good and she has talent, but 'international acclaim' is a little misleading I think, as acclaim simply means 'recognition'. It sounds good and, lol. She would be better off not puffing things out so much and letting her art speak for itself, imo.
It's a shame she went from artist to con artist.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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Ashla, best wishes for you and your family..
SAMy, the recent video.. is it offline for good? or coming back. it says 'removed by owner'..
EDIT: NEVER MIND.. i see your post now.. k. thanks! :)
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Would it be a good idea if someone is somewhat close (distance) to a tribal office (esp I guess Salish and 'Sioux') to ask a spokesperson to speak on video, or on audio, or issue a written statement on LG ?
I'd express mail out a small flip video camera or mp3 recorder to borrow just for that.
Kiesha doesnt say which 'sioux' community her mother has ties to so I don't know if that would help. After talking to people at CSKT I think that if a request were put in writing via snail mail that they would provide a written response. From personal experience I think having a response on tribal letter head is the best way to go.
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Perhaps those who still speak to Crowther or her handlers can request she tell them which "Sioux" community she thinks her mother had ties to. As Crowther is trying to make a living based on these alleged ties, it seems a simple thing to ask and answer.
If she refuses to say, well, there are a handful of communities but it is a finite and known number. It would take more time to write them all, but it is doable.
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It's a shame she went from artist to con artist.
SAMy says 'zing' ;D
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How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?
there just seems to be one:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords
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How many kiesha crowthers can there be from Sanford, Colorado?
there just seems to be one:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords
Intellius doesnt let you post links to specific searched information. You have to do screen shots. If you are going to post a screen shot, please be kind and post a disclaimer that it is publically accessable information :)
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not anything spectacular really.
I can't afford to pay for other info which is marked as "Report includes when available:", which means it probably isn't anyway.
from here:
http://www.intelius.com/results.php?ReportType=1&searchform=publicrecords
Name
Kiesha Rae Crowther
Age
32
Previous Cities
Sanford, CO
South Fork, CO
Relatives
Wayne N Crowther
Wayne Nelson Crowther
Tammy Sue Crowther
Mandy S Cook
DISCLAIMER - this is personal information included on the above website. NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this. We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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I'm on the phone with a member of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee. The Culture and Elders Committee protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. The tribal Elder I am speaking with states she nor any other Elder or elder have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther. She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.
ETA - permission to disseminate the following -
The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther. She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.
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This may or may not be relevant:
An associate/relative?
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/kreps2.jpg)
http://www.veromi.com/Dennis-Kreps.aspx
DISCLAIMER - this is personal information included on the above website. NAFPS in no way condones the posting of or misuse of personal information such as this. We are merely diseminating previously publically posted information.
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If you want to see a prime example of peoples ability to cling like limpets to their ignorance read the posts before and the replies to this post:
http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg3
I am an enrolled member of the Lower Brule Lakota Tribe, South Dakota.
A lot of people do not understand why what Kiesha Crowther is doing, should bother the oyate. As a first nations woman let me try to explain. First off, I have no problems with new age beliefs. I can honor and respect that belief system, but it has no place being mixed in and taught with my red road traditional teachings handed down by my ancestors. We do not subscribe to these teachings of the I AM presence, channeling aliens, digging up and burying crystals, communicating with angels, etc. We also do not sell our ceremonies, or charge for them. It's sacrilege. It's wrong to lay claim to an entire nation, take parts of the ceremony for yourself, combine them into your new age ceremony then sell it to people. It's also wrong to lie about being related to an elder or being made a shaman over an entire nation of people. That is what Kiesha Crowther has done. She has definitely made youtube videos explaining that she was given a phone call from elders who then beckoned her to a secret ceremony where they made her (in her words) a "shaman" over the people.
First off, this never happened. My good friend who grew up on Flathead reserve in Montana, who is Salish, has talked about this with me and told me that no one knows of her up there and that the tribal council is investigating her for fraud. Why are they investigating her? You cannot steal from a nation, steal the ceremony, claim you are a shaman over them, then sell parts of the ceremony.
Kiesha's appropriation of the oyate's traditions needs to stop. Kiesha can go on performing all the new age ceremonies that she pleases. She can continue to talk about all of the new age aspects of what she believes and charge all she pleases for them, that's fine. She is also illegally carrying feathers. She gets away with all of this in other countries, but in this country you must be ndn to carry.
I'm sorry if some here disagree and feel that she can do as she pleases, but that's fine. We'll agree to disagree. She is performing the worst cultural appropriation that I think I have ever seen. I hope that Kiesha will look into her heart and realize that what she is doing is offensive and spiritually wrong.
If you call the tribal office in the Flathead reservation of Montana, you can speak with someone who will tell you that Kiesha is unknown. They would know of her, if she was made "shaman" over the people. Believe me.
Also, we don't call ourselves "shaman". We don't refer to that word or use it.
Our ceremonies and our ways are not for sale. They never have been and they never will be. Thank you
A reply:
Interesting post (the one above this one), but in the videos I have watched she has not claimed to be any of those things.
Most of what I have listened to has to do with earth changes, both what is happening now and what is coming.
GoM Disaster = it is happening now.
Pole shift = many, many have spoke of this, and signs indicate that it is beginning now.
I take all these things with a grain of salt and an open mind ... but she makes some predictions/prophecies that are highly likely -- not only "likely", but we may very well be experiencing the "birth pangs" right now.
No matter what one's religious (or non-religious) persuasion, for anyone who is wondering "What in the world is going on?", these tapes are highly thought-provoking.
imho
This is the sort of brain-dead mentality Kiesha is making alot of mony from, while hurting Indiginous people. It's sick.
It's as if they read, but don't understand a word, or have the memory of a goldfish unless it's something that they find affects them personally.
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Spandex,
If you post at GLP can you provide links to the sheeple that show where she makes her claims? Not that it would likely help, they'll just come up with another excuse but it's worth a try.
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I will see if I have an old account there, but when faced with this sort of attitude, it is probably futile. They will just say stuff like below, or "I Love you". Sort of a 'love grenade'.
This post from the same site, as she posted about this thread:
Janie Jones
User ID: 1102723
Canada
11/20/2010 1:06 AM
Re: 2012 INFO: Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother" speaks on 20†0 11 2012 ** DO NOT Watch ** Quote
I have taken a good look at that website and there is not one shred of evidence or documentation that Keisha is a fraud. It is simply a gossipy discussion board. They simply dismiss her because she looks too white for them and in doing so actually betray their lack of knowledge of modern Salish people.
There are many, many light skinned and fair headed Salish Indians. I grew up with a family of pale redheaded Salish Indians north of Vancouver BC and once when I was further up the coast met an native with long red hair, I asked him if he was white and he said, no that though it was rare, there had always been red-headed and even the occasional blonde born among them and he was happy about it because it was considered to be very high status. I also knew a blonde Haida girl in Toronto. Very tall, gorgeous.
There is also considerable evidence that a tall, fair haired paleocaucasian race inhabited North America before the ancestors of modern North American Indians arrived at the time of the last big shake up.
Europeans arrived on the west coast 300 years and there has also been considerable interbreeding between the races ever since.
It only takes two generations of one white parent for a full blooded Cree to have a blonde grandson. I also know two Salish children who are blonde and green eyed but they are still full status Indians and sadly, like Keisha are growing up with a very chaotic home life.
The idea that Keisha could not be an Indian because she is too white completely violates my personal experience of living with the descendants of indigenous people my whole life.
Modern first nations people also travel for many reasons and often marry out of tribe. Keisha has never hid the fact that her father is white and it is entirely possible that her mother has one Salish and one Sioux/Lakota parent.
The dismissal of Keisha seems entirely based on her physical appearance leading to their conclusion that, "Her claims are simply false." That is fine, they can think what they want but then then embark on an actual program to destroy her. Look at this posting by the administrator of the forum:
educatedindian
Administrator
Offline
Posts: 2864
Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2010, 04:39:03 pm »
Crowther wouldn't have a leg to stand on. I think we should use the same tactics that were done against the fraud Suraj Holzwarth.
[link to www.newagefraud.org]
That includes facebook pages devoted todebunking her and organizing against her that dogged her every step.
[link to www.facebook.com]
And youtube videos spreading the word about her.
[link to www.youtube.com]
All the same can and should be done vs Crowther, IMO.
______________________________
Really, what is it to them?
Another line of attack they are using "because she seems so sincere" is that she is delusional, mentally ill and needs some kind of treatment.
A good tip off that you're seeing the real thing is the PTB try to destroy and discredit them. Look at what was done to Chinese Chi Gong Master Li Hongzhi the developer of the high level meditation system Falun Gong.
The PTB smeared him as a cult leader rather than a scammer as they are doing to Keisha because he taught Falun Gong with the stipulation that no one can ever charge money for teaching it and the does away with all need for membership. He made his living as a grain clerk and then when his books started to sell better, he was able to leave his day job and travel around China giving lectures and answering questions.
I had the honour of seeing at the Kennedy Centre in Washington DC in the late summer of 2001.
http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg2
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ETA - permission to disseminate the following -
Here it is. Looking for feedback on content before making it 'public'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk
SAMy
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Great work ! I think it is having an effect as I just tried to post on one of her you tube videos and I am blocked.eddievibes420's Channel blocked me. Somebody must be getting nervous. :D :D :D :D ;D
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ETA - permission to disseminate the following -
Here it is. Looking for feedback on content before making it 'public'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk
SAMy
I think it is the best video so far
short, to the point, extremely clear
It gets my seal of approval, for what it's worth
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Great work ! I think it is having an effect as I just tried to post on one of her you tube videos and I am blocked.eddievibes420's Channel blocked me. Somebody must be getting nervous. :D :D :D :D ;D
Me too, Eddievibes bans everyone who has different viewpoints. I made a comment saying that John Kimmey, who is speaking in Kiesha Crowther's 'Return of the Ancestors" video, was formally asked by the Hopi nation to quit posing as a keeper of Hopi prophecies and making money off of it, and at first he agreed to do so, then reneged on his promise.
That's why i got banned. I just don't understand how this eddievibes person can be so out of touch with reality. The criticism is real and the videos he's put online are lies, but apparently to him it's the other way around, somehow.
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same here with eddievibes. banned from posting
I suppose that Kiesha's message that we are all equal really should be translated as @we are all equal, but some are more equal than others'.
So we have a cult-like group that tells it's followers to 'switch the channel' from any negativity, and the followers who are actively silencing criticism.
That sounds more like a tyrrany than anything else to me.
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Spandex where's that count down banner?
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Well, she brought along a dear heyoka friend of hers and he had some medicine too. The video is their mostly work. We listened to them and put it together. We did add that part in the middle from one little grandmother to another. (Let's us know if you think that bit is too much.... I can't really say the heyoka made us do it. ;-) The video is fast paced like most media is. We figure we've got a few minutes for the remedy to work.
Enjoy - All good medicine to you and all the *people*,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E
SAMy
Holy Mackerel this thread has sure taken off. I've been preoccupied with the difficulties of earning a living and haven't looked in here in a couple of months. Keep it up folks, that woman ain't gonna have any place left to hide soon thanks to all of you getting information out.
SAMy, that video is hysterical. I have to make a note not to be drinking my morning coffee when I watch your videos, LMAO :D
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SAMy posted the video last night and send youtube emails to most of the hosters of LG videos. The response from two thus far this morning was nearly cookie cutter. It goes like this.
As they are able to tune into the higher light and vibrations of Kieshas messages anything related to the physical does not matter. Not her story, not whether what she said about her past is 'true', just her message and how it makes them feel in their hearts.
Gotta say, SAMy has been around cults before and it's sounds just like that. It's don't matter if the house is built on a stack of lies. But each time that house crumbles. And all this ain't just about Kiesha. Like Kiesha said, being a temporary intentional prophet (or a lucky guess), alot of lies and truths are coming out this year. Pakistan is just involved in unmasking some high-level CIA agent there. All the masks are coming off. And Kiesha, the ancestors and the Elders are tugging at yours now.
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Ok, just made a response to the erroneous postings on the godlikeproductions site. Here is the response:
http://204.74.214.194/forum1/message1258332/pg4
OrbitalSponge
User ID: 1199188
United Kingdom
12/18/2010 10:07 AM
[quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
I have taken a good look at that website and there is not one shred of evidence or documentation that Keisha is a fraud. It is simply a gossipy discussion board. They simply dismiss her because she looks too white for them and in doing so actually betray their lack of knowledge of modern Salish people..........
[/quote]
This is patent nonsense.
Anyone wishing to find the proof only has to read the thread to see how ridiculous the above statement is, so I won't repeat the many lacks of her proof, and proof against her authenticity here. I will just ask that people watch this very short video statement by genuine Native Americans in response to her claims. Claims that she HAS made despite the belief by another poster that she has made none.
Tribal Statement on Keisha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk
[quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
Yes they grudgingly admit that Keisha's message is very positive.
[/quote]
Are you blind? It's a serious question. This isn't what is being said and is a wildly filtered version of what is being said, which is quite interesting in itself. A habit of Kiesha's followers is to censor all opposition.
What she actually does, as well as 'being very positive' about certain aspects of her message, is to spread fear about the future. It's the old stick and carrot method.
Again, read the thread.
Other than all that she is what we have been warned to avoid, being a false prophet. Her prophecies about 2010 have NOT come true. Well, we have several days left, but it's a stretch:
2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related
"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...
...All of the secrets will be exposed...
...Government cover-ups will be exposed...
...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...
...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...
...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...
...Filthy waters will be cleaned...
...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."
Those are the facts. Haven't people ever heard of wolves in sheeps clothing?
Her claims of authorisation from the Native American Elders are FAKE. This makes her role no more than an act. There are some very good actors out there. It's time to 'get it'. And if this isn't seen as 'loving' or negativity, than I will ask, would it be loving to tell a child to just be positive and loving when you see them being tricked by some stranger that you know isn't as 'nice' as they appear to be, who is offering them candy? Kiesha offers candy in her own way, which is the 'I AM' teachings, the call to 'ascension' and life in a better world like Heaven on Earth...etc (wether they are true or not is not really the debate).
Please wake up!
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Like SAMy said, Game On ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfqHk_ixNM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtfqHk_ixNM)
Regarding the Tribal Statement video posted late last night... SAMy sees from the youtube stats that this has been viewed 113 times to now since. It is definitely getting lots of traffic for a new youtube vid (call it mini-viral at this point). Please encourage your contacts to spread the word about it. The Ancestors video there is also getting lots of hits (523 since the evening of 13-DEC).
Breakdown of viewing countries for the Tribal Statement video is:
United States - 35.9%
Sweden - 15.4%
New Zealand - 12.8%
Canada - 7.7%
Poland - 7.7%
Netherlands - 5.1%
United Kingdom - 5.1%
Denmark - 5.1%
Russia - 2.6%
Italy - 2.6%
For those of you who can translate please email to SAMy, in a Word document, translations of the text (see below). The non-English languages from this list would be the first priorities. If you don't know SAMy's email address please PM for it.
The text to translate
Tribal Statement on Keisha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'
Official Tribal Statement Regarding Kiesha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother' and her claims to be their 'shaman'
"I was called to be the shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes."
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther. She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
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quote:Janie Jones 1102723]
Yes they grudgingly admit that Keisha's message is very positive
what is it with some people? I had a friend who was told a guy was a FRAUD, a LIAR, a WOMANIZER who knew diddly squat about Indians period, and she said "But I don't think what he says is so bad. It's so positive and full of love." ?? I about couldn't speak and I finally was able to say that it wasn't WHAT he said it was WHO he was. And who he was is a lying, scumbag POS.
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It saddens me that these people have already been so hypnotized and mesmerized by Kiesha that they are almost beyond contact.
I have recently tried to reason with two of my Swedish friends, just explaining the feeling of hurt and anger that Kiesha´s actions cause Native Americans, especially the Salish. What came out of it was that they were pretty irritated that the complaints from Ndn:s disturbed their loving, friendly (not friendly to Ndn:s, though) world. If it wasn´t for angry Ndn:s (and some angry non-Ndn:s), everything would be so perfect! Kiesha was so full of love, and this made her sad....
I never thought my friends would utter anything like it!! It´s like a pedophile being irritated that the child screams as it disturbs the moment of love. I never realized how far this has gone in a scary cultlike way. I do not want them to disappear into this world of not seeing, not hearing, not feeling anything that their leader doesn´t permit. :-[
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I never realized how far this has gone in a scary cultlike way. I do not want them to disappear into this world of not seeing, not hearing, not feeling anything that their leader doesn´t permit. :-[
Exactly. It's a very quick rise to a worldwide following, and I think this sort of thing is going to become more common in the coming years, especially with the fear of what people are being told 'might' happen at 2012 (even if fear is on a subconscious level and overlayed with the percieved 'positivity' of the ascension belief).
These people are 'activating' their 'heart consciousness', but at the expense of rational thinking. The heart is not a substitute for the brain (metaphorically speaking), both have to be used in the pursuit of truth. This is exactly why people are being told to turn away from 'mind-consciousness' and rely unconditionally on 'heart-consciousness', and that this will make them more intelligent. It won't. Love, Knowledge and Wisdom are not the same things, even though they are linked together like all things are.
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks", and the heart can be full of deceptions, lies, greed and violence. We are NOT perfect, and this is a nuage fallacy. Yes we try our best, but we often fail. Saying this is NOT giving in to a negative paradigm, it's just seeing the reality of the situation, and nobody should be afraid to state the truth for fear of being rejected or ignored by their peers who 'switch the channel' in favour of a viewpoint of fundamentalist positivism. Fundamentalist positivism is a sort of tyrrany of the spirit that is being inculcated by nuage groups at present, and it can only lead to disillusionment and a very unbalanced worldview. You cannot be a light in the darkness by not acknowledging there is darkness in the world. Advocates will say that this assessment isn't true, and that they all know how bad it is but just wish to concentrate on the positive, so that they can create a harmonic group energy that will help the world 'enlighten', as a result of the 'hundredth monkey effect and the morphic field created. While there is truth in the power of consciousness to counter the darkness, we aren't going to successfully do this by simply 'switching the channel and burying our heads like the ostrich! We have to cultivate the skill to keep a loving outlook towards others DESPITE the realities infront of us, in other words to be IN the world even if we are not OF it. Does this make any sense? There is no enlightenment by being love to love alone, and there is no evolution of spirit in being light only when surrounded by light. We will really start to evolve by acknowledging the darkness around us , not hiding from it, and being loving anyway. To not ignore the hurt we or others cause, but to try and repair and overcome the faults with love which is INFORMED AND AWAKE with EYES WIDE OPEN in the darkness, not with eyes closed and chanting the mantra "all is well" when the world falls around us. We are here to be witnesses and to make a change in spirit with AWARENESS.
Thats it....me channelling me. Nobody needs to be channeling anyone else than themselves imo. That's a sure way to spot a potential misguided soul imo.
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face...............(click link above this quote box read in full)
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This post from the same site, as she posted about this thread:
Janie Jones
User ID: 1102723
Canada
11/20/2010 1:06 AM
Re: 2012 INFO: Kiesha Crowther "Little Grandmother" speaks on 20†0 11 2012 ** DO NOT Watch ** Quote
....A good tip off that you're seeing the real thing is the PTB try to destroy and discredit them. Look at what was done to Chinese Chi Gong Master Li Hongzhi the developer of the high level meditation system Falun Gong.
The PTB smeared him as a cult leader rather than a scammer as they are doing to Keisha because he taught Falun Gong....
Don't know what she means by PTB. Falun Gong are a cult. No doubt about that. Their leader is a wacko believer in pseudoscience who claims, for example, that mixed race people are an evil plot begun by space aliens. His cult is as authoritarian as Jim Jones or the Moonies, and LI Hongzhi lives a cushy life in New York off the wealth of his followers. If someone would praise him as genuine, there's not a whole lot one can do to reach them.
Posted the Salish elders statement in a separate thread so no one has to search for it in this one. After all,this is now the longest thread on the site after the Holzwarth one.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3055.msg26118#new
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The PTB or TPTB is shorthand for The Powers That Be. This is the elusive 'They', or what is referred to as the powers behind the throne of the few masters that own multinational corporations. They are commonly understood to be involved in service-to-self occult practices and work through a heirarchical number of factions with the same goals to maintain a 'worker-bee' populace by unspiritual and materialistic slavery. I call them for want of a better word The Cabal.
The trouble is that any cult leader can use this as a way to justify themselves as 'The True Faith'. The more people try to show them up for what they are, the more the followers will believe it's the truth because they are being attacked. This is a tool also used in The Bible to show to the faithful that they have the truth, and well used by nuage cults. It's origin is in verses like Matthew 5:11 "How blessed are you whenever people insult you, persecute you, and say all sorts of evil things against you falsely because of me!" So when people make accusations and seem to persecute (which is the viewpoint of the blind follower), it is taken as difinitive proof that they really do have the truth, and pushes them further into the cult with a feeling of comradeship in the face of 'The Adversary', or the fashionable way of putting it...TPTB.
This is allready evident in the followers of Kiesha, sadly. We are seen as 'workers of Darkness. ???
In the minds of the devotees of her personality cult, opposition is going to be seen as opposition to the 'message of Love' and a result of the cunning spiritual forces of darkness working through willing or unwitting foes.
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It saddens me that these people have already been so hypnotized and mesmerized by Kiesha that they are almost beyond contact.
SAMy was also somewhat surprised by how the owners of the channels of Kiesha's videos responded. Just love and light, her past or story in the physical plane does not matter.
Well SAMy got a remedy to help with that. This is as clear as SAMy can make the message today.
SAMy says http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE)
If this don't wake you up then you better ask whatever higher powers you believe in to do a check on you....
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Holy crow SAMy, that was intense.
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Brilliant work SAMy! If that doesn't get through to people they are not going to listen to anything.
Sadly, the fully brainwashed ones won't get more than a few seconds in until they 'feel negativity' :-[ and switch the channel. The truth is inaccessible to them because to see truth sometimes means to experience pain.
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Get down SAMy ;D
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Wonderful to see! I'm in the process of posting to my FB page, and getting my FB friends to re-post as well.
Don't forget using Twitter as well... I'm also posting this up to my website tonight.
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Spreading the word on other online forums here. I won't say where because I don't want them to be taken down and censored by the freedom of speech killers.
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Freija sorry about your friends, I know that must hurt to see them getting sucked into all this. I made a reply regarding this whole 'but it's a positive message' type thing. I said
" a person doesn't just follow their heart without also using their intelligence.. most times when a person does that, they find that old saying 'too good to be true' and usually end up hurt."
I hope your friends figure this out..
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SAMy, I have someone posting on my wall on FB
Liv-Hanne Nt: Be careful Jane, this is not an evidence.This is only a youtube video which I made for fun. Or maybe not.
I'm assuming you are not Liv-Hanne Nt? :)
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I started another Facebook group. I'm not the most computer saavy individual, so if anyone wants to jump on and post some videos or information, be my guest. I'll try to get started here in the next day or so.
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Twinkie, I'm not sure 'groups' are available to anyone on FB but that you are invited..
I did a search to see if your group would come up.. it didn't, but HAH! :) :) :) IF you start to
type Little Grandmother in the search the video's show up. LOL GOOD !! YAY! HA HA
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This is the best one yet... I did a quick check to see if it was on here and didnt see it, and if it already is, this just deserves to be on here twice! sooo..
Satire video on Crowther...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4s-gsd631E&feature=player_embedded
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LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.
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And, on another track, what about having friends, esp. tribal enrolled, call Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living at (505) 983-5022 asking them why they would continue to host an event there when LG has been dee-nied by the tribal elders she claims to be commissioned from ? If email is used include these links ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpC-9S1Bplk) - tribal statement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am7Ehs5XBLU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO5Dx4hF6PE) - LG or Change the World
Think hot potato.
Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living
505 Camino de los Marquez
Santa Fe, NM 87505
(505) 983-5022
info@santafecsl.org
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Twinkie, I'm not sure 'groups' are available to anyone on FB but that you are invited..
I did a search to see if your group would come up.. it didn't, but HAH! :) :) :) IF you start to
type Little Grandmother in the search the video's show up. LOL GOOD !! YAY! HA HA
Let me check the settings. I thought it is open and public but this sort of stuff baffles the crap out of me on a good day.
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Well, I think "groups" are altogether different than 'pages'.. groups is something new (i think?)
I'm not FB savvy so.. not real sure here either..
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(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/masterfraudjpg.jpg)
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
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Excellent, Spandex :-)
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Freija sorry about your friends, I know that must hurt to see them getting sucked into all this. I made a reply regarding this whole 'but it's a positive message' type thing. I said
" a person doesn't just follow their heart without also using their intelligence.. most times when a person does that, they find that old saying 'too good to be true' and usually end up hurt."
I hope your friends figure this out..
Thanks, Critter. Yes, it´s the channel between the diaphragm and the brain that needs to stay open. And cleaned. Too much activity in one end of that channel without involving the other end is not good in the long run. We were given intuition and feelings, we were also given a brain. Collaboration between the two is the key....! ;D
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I started another Facebook group. I'm not the most computer saavy individual, so if anyone wants to jump on and post some videos or information, be my guest. I'll try to get started here in the next day or so.
http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_168555623180533
I asked to join.
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Seems to me that Coup is being counted in multiples. Just a note. It has been my experience that if a person approaches Creator with a clean heart and in the right way one gains an unconquerable ally. Might I suggest that that those that have not already done so consider this. Offered with respect an in Spirit "LittleOldMan"
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i want to ask y'all to think about the word 'stolen' when referring to your ceremonies.
the word 'stolen' in regards to ceremony - when i hear it, or heard it earlier in my life -
actually adds authenticity to the claims made by the fraud. when you use the word it implies
that the fraud has been involved in traditional ceremony w/ ndn's and is taking those ceremonies
off the rez w/out authorization (which we know is not true in lg's case or most cases). it makes us white folks (at least a lot of us), feel like we're getting something
special, something you don't want us to have -something we need and deserve - and thanks to this brave rebel (fraud) we're getting it.
i realize this may not make any sense to some of you. you're probably not white.
i just wonder if it wouldn't be more effective w/ us to say that she is faking ceremonies she has never seen, and that her customers have never seen, that she's never seen a real ceremony to steal. or something, a way to re-word the stolen part. food for thought
see, we don't mind stealing so much, if its something you wouldn't give us (this should be fairly clear by now), but we don't like being duped. we love to be offended more than anything.
now, pls no white hate comments. i love being white
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LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.
Samy, is it Ctr for Spiritual Living, or Sante Fe Soul, or two events? This is SF Ctr Sp Living.
http://www.santafecsl.org/csl_events.html
I don't see her listed. But if she is there it looks to me they are just unaware of her falseness. They likely think she's just a Native speaker. I think they'd be unlikely to host her if they knew what she actually is.
I don't see her listed at Santa Fe Soul either.
http://www.santafesoul.com/calendar.cfm
That group might be a little less willing to listen. I see listings for someone claiming to teach about Mayan dreamtime, and several shamanic practitioners. But for the most part it's things like yoga. It'd still be worth the effort to try and get them to cancel her.
Where's the listing of events for her?
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i want to ask y'all to think about the word 'stolen' when referring to your ceremonies.
Point made an accepted. SAMy says for the youtube site the current vid for Change the World will be de-listed (still out there) and a language tweaked version posted. All new searches will find the tweaked video. Send SAMy a PM if you have further high-value word-smithing.
To make it clear, NAFPS and SAMy are coincidental, related only through this forum.
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LG's next event in Santa Fe. NM is @ Santa Fe Center for Spiritual Living - Friday and Saturday February 4-5, 2011
If someone who is a regular poster to NAFPS lives west of the mississippi river and has the time to go, a strong interest in going, but not the financial means, please PM me.
Samy, is it Ctr for Spiritual Living, or Sante Fe Soul, or two events? This is SF Ctr Sp Living.
http://www.santafecsl.org/csl_events.html
I don't see her listed. But if she is there it looks to me they are just unaware of her falseness. They likely think she's just a Native speaker. I think they'd be unlikely to host her if they knew what she actually is.
I don't see her listed at Santa Fe Soul either.
http://www.santafesoul.com/calendar.cfm
That group might be a little less willing to listen. I see listings for someone claiming to teach about Mayan dreamtime, and several shamanic practitioners. But for the most part it's things like yoga. It'd still be worth the effort to try and get them to cancel her.
Where's the listing of events for her?
Indeed, apologies, she was at santafesoul this year, and C.S.L. next year. Will tweak the original post now...
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Friend sent this to me.......
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpC-9S1Bplk?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/QpC-9S1Bplk?fs=1&hl=en_US&rel=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
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Where's the listing of events for her?
http://littlegrandmother.net/SantaFeEvents.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/SantaFeEvents.aspx)
If you go here http://www.santafecsl.org/calendar.html (http://www.santafecsl.org/calendar.html) there is a 'firm booking' on each day of the workshop for LG site.
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I received a message from someone in my FB mail. They said thanks for telling the truth about the lies KC was telling. I thought I'd share this here, so you all can know that the effort is reaching some, and some are thankful for it. Of course, I'm not sure if this person already knew.. but I'm suspecting not regarding the other comments in the mail.
:)
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One other thing that came to mind:
http://www.vimeo.com/16830337
@1:24 "Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains, very soon we will be gifted all of that"
Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...
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Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...
Actually, that made me react, too.
The fact that we only use a third of our brain is something that was quite often stated about 20 years ago - making people excited about what could be taking place in the rest of the brain. Since then we know better, just like you say. Seems that Kiesha hasn´t caught up on recent research.
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On the tribe of many colors website they are soliciting donations. We need to contact the IRS en mass. Also, they need to be allerted to the enourmous amount of funds she is bringing in. Her personal website lists her current address as NM (in the faq section where you can send her presents), she also has a physical address in CO. Neither state has Kiesha Crowther, Little Grandmother or Tribe of Many Colors listed as a business entity. For the state of colorado please contact the secretary of state, her residence is listed as Sanford Colorado. For NM also contact the secretary of state, address is listed as
Kiesha Crowther
c/o Santa Fe Soul Health and Healing Center
2905 Rodeo Park Drive East
Santa Fe, NM 87505-6313
She could be funnelling donations under the umbrella of the above organization but I havent been able to find anything pointing to that.
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I'm on the phone with a member of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee. The Culture and Elders Committee protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc. The tribal Elder I am speaking with states she nor any other Elder or elder have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther. She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve.
Can we get the name of the person who made the statement and/or on tribal letterhead ?
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Colorado SOS -
Suite 200
Department of State
1700 Broadway, Denver, CO 80290
303-894-2200 & press 2
303-869-4864 (FAX)
business@sos.state.co.us
New Mexico SOS -
New Mexico State Capitol
325 Don Gaspar, Suite 300, Santa Fe, NM 87503
505.827.3600 or 800.477.3632
MaryE.Herrera@state.nm.us
From the IRS website -
If you suspect or know of an individual or company that is not complying with the tax laws, you may report this activity by completing Form 3949-A. You may fill out Form 3949-A online, print it and mail it to:
Internal Revenue Service
Fresno..., CA 93888
You may use Form 13909, Tax-Exempt Organization Complaint (Referral) Form, to report an abusive transaction involving an exempt organization. To send a written complaint by mail, send to the following address:
IRS
EO Classification
MC 4910DAL
1100 Commerce Street
Dallas, TX 75242
In addition, the IRS Office of Tax Shelter Analysis maintains a hotline that can be used to provide information about abusive tax shelters.
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I'll call to get permission tomorrow and request a hardcopy on letterhead.
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Hey, SAMy vids are going turtle while we make some changes. We finally got LGs attention.
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One other thing that came to mind:
http://www.vimeo.com/16830337
@1:24 "Do you know now that we use less than a third of our brains, very soon we will be gifted all of that"
Not true. Every cell in our brains has a purpose. About 10% of our brains is active at any given time, but the focus is constantly shifting. If we'd use all of our brains, we'd be in a constant state of epilepsy. It's something i wouldn't want anyone to endure...
This struck me as just one more inaccuracy also, and it sounds like she is just picking a fraction 'out of the hat'.
Looking on the internet I came accross this: http://brain101.info/
"The new “Brain Theory” views the human brain as a “highly organized system”, similar to respiratory and digestive systems, that consists of 33 microbrains."
I think it's fair to say that nobody really knows how the brain works, or how much 'potential' it uses, but that we have only learned to realise just a small fraction of our possible potential. LESS than 1/3 lol.
People who go to Kiesha's talks are fed with such a slew of information on a variety of topics that they probably come out of the talks with all sorts of badly researched information jumbled up in their heads which they would have been better off doing a search for on the internet.
One of the traits of these nuage speakers is their ability to shift through a seemingly endless ammount of 'facts', so that anyone debunking them would have to write what would ammount to a dissertation which hardly anyone would read. They probably use what is called a 'memory castle' which is a technique to help remember the information you want to call upon, and is used alot by public speakers. Unfortunately Kiesha's memory castle if she has one has been filled with alot of junk, and people are paying to hear what's there/ Then there's the love and light message of course, which makes all that ok? It's amazing , the response of people that it's her message of love that matters, and we just have to raise our vibrations. Using an analogy, what is better to eat, good food which is clean or good food where you have to pick out alot of garbage?
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
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The professional fundamentalist Young Earth Creationists use the same rapidfire shift from topic to topic to create overload and make a point by point refutation almost impossible. It's known as the "Gish Gallop".
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We finally got LGs attention.
:o ??? :D
*curious*
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From youtube:
Little Grandmother
Dear YouTube user,
It would be well if you voluntarily removed your video about Little Grandmother: "Tribal Statement on Kiesha Crowther aka 'Little Grandmother'"
Of course, if you prefer to document exactly whose words you are quoting, we will check the reference and verify their accuracy.
I am in touch with the owner of the video you used to make sure you secured his permission in advance because we already know you did not have Kiesha's permission to use the video clip.
This is a request and hopefully you'll agree it's better for you and us to simply remove the piece. If not, we'll need to talk about copyright and other legal issues.
Thanks in advance.
Dear Jennifer, Handler of the Great and Powerful Mini Nana -
The 1961 Report of the Register of Copyrights on the General Revision of the U.S. Copyright Law cites examples of activities that courts have regarded as fair use: “quotation of excerpts in a review or criticism for purposes of illustration or comment; quotation of short passages in a scholarly or technical work, for illustration or clarification of the author’s observations; use in a parody of some of the content of the work parodied; summary of an address or article, with brief quotations, in a news report; reproduction by a library of a portion of a work to replace part of a damaged copy; reproduction by a teacher or student of a small part of a work to illustrate a lesson; reproduction of a work in legislative or judicial proceedings or reports; incidental and fortuitous reproduction, in a newsreel or broadcast, of a work located in the scene of an event being reported.”
http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html
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This is a request and hopefully you'll agree it's better for you and us to simply remove the piece. If not, we'll need to talk about copyright and other legal issues.
They forgot to mention the misuse of the cultural identity of Native Americans by Kiesha, and wether or not she will be recanting, and altering all her 'workshop' material to make no reference to her fraudulent claims.
It's amusing when someone who is misappropriating a peoples cultural heritage has the gall to make threats which if carried out would only end in the wider publicity of their misdeeds.
Do they really believe they wouldn't just get laughed right out of court? ??? ??? ::)
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Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
http://www.spring.org.uk/2010/11/are-fast-talkers-more-persuasive.php
......These results, along with a couple of other studies, lead some researchers to think that speaking quickly was a potential 'magic bullet' of persuasion....
.....Exactly the reverse effect was seen when the message was pro-attitudinal. When preaching to the converted, it was slow speech that emerged as the most persuasive....
So it seems we might well have reason to fear fast talkers if they are delivering a message we're not inclined to agree with. It seems the fast pace is distracting and we may find it difficult to pick out the argument's flaws. Similarly when faced with an audience gagging to agree, the practised persuader would do well to slow down and give the audience time to agree some more.
_____________________
Kiesha in Zurich 2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7iJdF1lv1E
this is a perfect example of the slow-speech, strangely put together in a way that is a bit like a fast-speech in the way that it bombards the consciousness with a stream of information, imo,
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So the video was taken down? Did anyone save a copy of it?
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The videos will be going back up eventually, as far as I know copies were saved.
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Kiesha in Zurich 2/2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7iJdF1lv1E
@7:00 in the above video Kiesha says that the star beings are hiding on earth in the mentally disabled.
So for those of us who suffer with clinical depression or some form of psychosis (and who doesn't to one degree or another, imo), we might very well be a 'hiding' star person!
Wether that is part of the truth or not, and if you believe the universe is full of life and in reincarnation it isn't a strange sounding thing, it's a dangerous to make this specific statemets as it could easily cause someone who is struggling with self identity while suffering with mental illness to be misled into a 'hall of mirrors' and illusion. They then become dependant on the 'master' who has imparted such 'enlightenment' to them, in many cases. It's the same tack used by nuage gurus when they use the idea of Indigo children, as kids who have problems, to appeal to parents who want someone to tell them how special their kids are.
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http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/
"Due to administrational needs - the site is actually not accessible - Thank you for your Visit"
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it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.
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So the video was taken down? Did anyone save a copy of it?
SAMy took it all down and is reuploading with some changes. Still have everything.
Now reviewing a court case the EFF won in July regarding Fair Use. Looks pretty clear that up to 30 seconds segments, and multiples, are FAIR USE game (the folks who spooked me can also read up on this one http://www.eff.org/press/archives/2010/07/26 and https://www.eff.org/files/filenode/dmca_2009/RM-2008-8.pdf).
Am currently re-posting new material and awaiting letterhead from CSKT before re-adding video on tribal rebuttal of LGs claims of being the shaman of Sioux and Salish. This is now a known false claim. How someone can go around saying junk like that and then think everyone is just gonna forget about it, like it was growing pains, cmon, she was 30 when she did whatever solitary four days fast to become a 'shaman'. Did she go to Siberia? There ain't no 'shamans' from Turtle Island. SAMy KNOWS that a single four day fast, even if you're dancing your head off, don't qualify you to step into some leadership and teaching role where people are going to put the trust and faith in you. That's why native folk said you got to be at least 50 before you start talkin. Whoever initiated LG must not have known that. It's causing problems for everyone.
What LG and her handlers really don't get is that her claim of being 'THE shaman of the Sioux (cough, cough, did you mean Lakota, Dakota, Nakota, or something else) and Salish tribes' and her wearing buckskin and using the Chanupa (playing with that could get you killed) and having video talks with medicine shields behind her absolutely DOES tie her brand to Native American culture. She doesn't get that she is blending her brand with an existing brand, NDN. In the corporate world that would be trademark infringement. But this is more like CULTURAL GENOCIDE. And they just don't get that. Oh no, she is not teaching anything Native American. There's something missing upstairs folks.
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it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.
Wonder if they are making the site viewable by "approved" members only?
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They are probably watching this board and seeing which members log in, lol.
Don't have to be psychic....
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I would rather LG come clean but ....
LIBRARY OF CONGRESS
Copyright Office
37 CFR Part 201
[Docket No. RM 20088]
Exemption to Prohibition on Circumvention of Copyright Protection Systems for
Access Control Technologies
AGENCY:
Copyright Office, Library of Congress.
ACTION:
Final rule.
Excerpt from section 3 page 6 paragraph 2
...
"Finally, it expressed general support for the request to designate a class that would permit extraction of film clips for use in noncommercial videos, but suggested a requirement that the clips from the audiovisual work must be for remix videos that are used for social comment or criticism, or that are used in transformativetype works according to established fair use principles."
...
Dated: July 20, 2010
James H. Billington,
The Librarian of Congress.
[FR Doc. 04????? Filed ????04; 8:45 am]BILLING CODE 141030S
[FR Doc. 2010-18339 Filed 07/26/2010 at 8:45 am; Publication Date: 07/27/2010]
So at this point I'll review the exist vids checking also for language. BUT, per the above ruling, SAMy, and anyone on youtube, has the right to use video clips to hoot and hollar so long as we are complaning. The general concensus from folks who have successfully defended DCMA changes is that 30 second clips, and multiples, are fair game.
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it has the login still. does that mean its available if you log in? That's what anyone would assume.
Wonder if they are making the site viewable by "approved" members only?
No I thought that earlier on, but here is a link to LG site that works.
http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BIO.aspx)
Additionally just take a look at the faces of those who are in some kind of religious trance of adulation if you can bear it.
http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx
Sad that children have been brought along into a web of deception and lies, IMO. Indeed The Handlers are handling this woman (Kiehsa Crowther) who is through my optics seriously fragmented, and damaged to further their ambitions, but this is just my view of it.
Don't know if what I'm pointing to makes any sense to anyone else, but what I perceive here in this instance and in the other associations of this "organization" is quite disturbing, needs to be exposed, along with the cease and desist of exploiting tribal ways. Perhaps this LG scenario will be the ultimate "poster child" of an epidemic which is a cancer spreading like wildfire. Again I apologize if this does not make sense, but am having a difficult time these days expressing myself.
I thank you all for the work you are doing not only on behalf of NDN's, but really this benefits all people, when lies are dissolved and liars are shown for what they truly are. There is a great deal of work to be done it seems.
:-*
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They are probably watching this board and seeing which members log in, lol.
Don't have to be psychic....
If they were smart, on second thought, oh ya, if they were smart they would be doing something else. But I won't mention that until they come back up.
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It's hideous how people can put on such a convincing act, it's almost as if they are able to put themselves, at least for the moment, into the frame of mind of someone who actually believes 100% in everything they are saying.
Maybe I'm just gullible, but it almost seems as if she believes she is what she says. I wonder wether she has been 'groomed' and brainwashed by her fake elders for the role. To me it sounds like she is just parroting alot of stuff that has been fed to her as a script by her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.
I know what it's like to be well 'brainwashed' into some really outlandish beliefs and even in the face of direct evidence which would allow any rational analysis of the situation to arrive at a different conclusion, to just 'set it aside' because the paradigm you have had 'proved' to you HAS to be true, or else you must be going crazy (cognitive dissonance big-time)! I wonder if this is what has happenned to her, and together with the ego-boost of the following and the cash flowing in...... it's an addictive mix. The sad thing is that there are some bits and pieces of truth amongst her messages, especially when it's about everyone coming together and being more loving.
If she has a 'genuine bone in her body' (?), she needs to really reassess her faith in the people she is trusting to tell her the truth, (like the aforementioned), and anyone feeding into the same paradigm. Then she needs to make a public statement apologising for misleading so many people about her claims which have been refuted by the REAL ELDERS, and put any profits she has garnered while basing her career on these claims into a fund held by those elders to help their people. Once she has done that she should probably go and spend some time alone and reflect on the whole situation, and what truth there is in anything she has been told. If she wants to then continue spreading the word of worldwide peace and love, that's great, but she should stop basing her credibility on others, or things that have very little basis in fact, or make prophecies when the info 'coming through to her' is obviously phoney and the sayings of trickster people or even spirits.
She might even be able to retain the respect of a few of her followers that way instead of going down 'in flames', speaking metaphorically.
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Indeed The Handlers are handling this woman (Kiehsa Crowther) who is through my optics seriously fragmented, and damaged to further their ambitions, but this is just my view of it.
Don't know if what I'm pointing to makes any sense to anyone else, but what I perceive here in this instance and in the other associations of this "organization" is quite disturbing, needs to be exposed, along with the cease and desist of exploiting tribal ways. Perhaps this LG scenario will be the ultimate "poster child" of an epidemic which is a cancer spreading like wildfire. Again I apologize if this does not make sense, but am having a difficult time these days expressing myself.
Really, this makes perfect sense, and is what I'm picking up too. She really does seem to be a puppet in this, even if she is partly a willing one. Her associations aren't lightweights, and come accross to me as people who could be quite powerful when it comes to indocrinating/inculcating others into a paradigm. I feel there is something quite dark behind all this, even though it is all 'light and love' on the surface to the casual observer.
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her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.
Wasn't John Kimmey sitting next to her in the 'Return of the Ancestors' videos? Didn't she ever look into his background? You hit so many things on the head. No real elders around her, it's looking very much like a business where they groomed someone just a little bit off, called them on the phone, sold them a story, had them fast for 4 days, and viola, you are a shaman, the core of our business, and off they go. I'll PM something else I can't say here but it's along the lines of what you hit towards the end.
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http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx
What are the black and red stripes going down her face supposed to mean, and the red hand-print on her chest?
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her peers, like Bernard Perona (aka Drunvalo Melchizedek), Adam 'Yellowbird' and others of their ilk.
Wasn't John Kimmey sitting next to her in the 'Return of the Ancestors' videos? Didn't she ever look into his background? You hit so many things on the head. No real elders around her, it's looking very much like a business where they groomed someone just a little bit off, called them on the phone, sold them a story, had them fast for 4 days, and viola, you are a shaman, the core of our business, and off they go. I'll PM something else I can't say here but it's along the lines of what you hit towards the end.
About Kimmey
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
I also just looked at his free ebook mentioned in the link....I remember this stuff from before and it's faithless bs at the end of the day. Fearmongering and without any real belief in the Divine which it makes claims to follow.
words fail me, but if this is the type of stuff Kiesha is taking in, there is no wonder she would be fragmented.
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http://littlegrandmother.net/SwedenPhotosJuly2010.aspx
What are the black and red stripes going down her face supposed to mean, and the red hand-print on her chest?
Isn't this merely all a circus act, theatrics, costume, a grown woman playing dress-up? If it were not being done under false pretenses, and masquerading as any kind of legitimate ceremony or genealogy it would merely be a case of entertainment by a clown. As the originator of the circus once said "There's a sucker born every minute" Sadly these suckers are buying into a ridiculous spectacle that defames those from who it has been stolen from, and negates any kind of true spirituality.
Planting crystals that were ripped from the earth back into the earth on "ley lines" as a means to save the planet? How about NOT flying to Europe wasting jet fuel? >:( ARRGH!
Excuse me while i go vomit.
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Excuse me while i go vomit.
She is givin crystals bad name. ;D
Well, if you have heard of Delores Cannon, she is in touch with Spirit/HighSelves via deep trance hypnosis on clients. She has been doing it for 20 years and getting consistent messages from different folks. She, and Terence McKenna, both pointing to the likelyhood of a great bifurcation of planet earth. Like the splitting away of a higher dimensional earth from this one. What an irony if all the folks who think they are gathering around this dress up NDN messiah are actually being setup for something they ain't expecting. Maybe the prayers of the Ghost Dancers just took a while to be fulfilled. Just sayin ;-)
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PS: I wonder where this GREAT I AM's children are while she is galavanting across the globe?
"Daughter of Sacred Mother Earth, Sister to all Her children and friend to all things in Nature. I am the Great I Am... and so are you!"
littlegrandmother.net
tribeofmanycolors.net
These handlers and this network is darkness disguised as light. Fragmenting all those who are actually seeking wholeness. Exploiting what is sacred into a carnival of atrocity. I personally pray for this woman who is so far from CREATOR that she now sits on a pedestal with those whose expressions can only be idol worship. SAD. Yet this much i KNOW .....If/When one falls from humility what follows is humiliation. Or, pride comes before a fall. These are times of great transition here on planet earth and lies are being exposed at all levels of culture, society, business, politics, and especially religion. Face it if people can still believe there is any sanctity in a Catholic Church where priests regularly abused innocent children, this sickness - this disease of spiritual bankruptcy - is rampant and as of yet still doing quite well, wearing different faces. All we can do is continue to expose the lies, and hold our truth. This does not however include allowing that which is sacred to be prostituted and made a sham of. ONWARD - FORWARD - There is much work to be done. ;)
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right, and if people want to help the Earth they don't need crystals to do it.
To the followers:
There are allready plenty of crystals down there allready and they can send them good energy any time they want. Planting crystals to heal the Earth is a gimmick which mainly server the purpose of flattering peoples ego, imo., and planting cash in fake guru's pockets.
You can't change the energetics of the Earth and heal the masses of crystals allready there by planting a few crystals. It's like trying to move a jumbo jet by attaching a string to a paper aeroplane.
The power of thought and intent with emotion isn't my point. Yes we also. know how crystals are used. But this crystal grid stuff she is using as part of her 'calling' is catered to a specific audience to rake in the cash. Ever think that we don't even need the physical crystals for the sort of thing she is promoting?
Don't give her your money.
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right, and if people want to help the Earth they don't need crystals to do it.
You can't change the energetics of the Earth and heal the masses of crystals allready there by planting a few crystals. It's like trying to move a jumbo jet by attaching a string to a paper aeroplane.
It occurred to me many decades ago that the delicate balance of this planet was greatly upset due to the displacement of various mineral deposits that were "strategically placed" where they were, for reasons that humans cannot or will not still fathom. Yet if we examine the medicinal value inherent in trees and plants we can see a glimpse of the synchronistic nature of all that is in our physical matter reality and how it serves all life.
To even suggest that the planting of a crystal back into a planet that has been pillaged, plundered,, and atomically rearranged is beyond stupidity. To sell this as an act of healing the earth and of love is an abomination. I can only "hope" that humans will wake-up to their own insanity.
That "hope" thing is getting old, as am i. BIG SIGH. Am I angry at this deluded woman who calls herself Little Grandmother, why yes I AM but no more than the other fools and their foolishness. Can they be turned around? Well this forum and its workings are a good start and we gotta start somewhere don't we? Thank You all for what you do. We can never surrender but it is quite a chore.
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These handlers and this network is darkness disguised as light. Fragmenting all those who are actually seeking wholeness.
Shazaam. You hit another one out of the park. Ain't it just strange that KC/LG can make so many claims and just keep on going. In politics and brainwashing you just keep repeating your message no matter what. If someone tries to bring up an inconsistency, or a LIE, then just keep on going, no need to backtrack. No need to apologize for saying on this video at 3:26 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM "That at age 30 I was made the shaman of the Sioux and Salish tribes". That is a complete LIE and the tribal government has said she aint there shaman.
It's hard enough to become a medicine person in the old way. And for someone who is like, what, 25% NDN at best, to get a PHONE CALL from WHO? And be told she is a shaman? HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE. If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly. And then you spend your entire life becoming that person. And you don't start teaching on your own until you are like FIFTY years old.
Now she is saying that she is not making 'Native American teachings, never have.' WHAT? WHY do you have native medicine shields, dress, and pipe? PEOPLE WAKE UP!!! On this board you are not hearing just from NDNs but from professional WHITE PEOPLE who have been around the rez once or twice, heck, have any of her followers even been in a real ceremony? Not many I'd guess.
Anyhow, this is over. It's not about how nice LG is and living from your heart blablabla, that is just a cover.
FOLKS, here is the real thing. If you ran into a REAL SPIRITUAL TEACHER they would NEVER CHARGE YOU MONEY.
So if you have to pay money to get close to LG then you are not around a true spiritual teacher, in any culture, anywhere on the planet. Donations and 'love offerings' maybe, admission? NEVER.
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To even suggest that the planting of a crystal back into a planet that has been pillaged, plundered,, and atomically rearranged is beyond stupidity. To sell this as an act of healing the earth and of love is an abomination. I can only "hope" that humans will wake-up to their own insanity.
Hey one, u on fire!
Have to tell you. I heard from someone that when New Agers go off planting crystals in the mountains of the East Coast that there are people who have to go out and energetically redo things that the New Agers are messing with. You absolutely should not do anything energetic like that without first checking in with the custodians of the land who live there. What ask permission? Something that has not been the habit around here past few hundred years.
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if these people met a real life spiritual so&so.. they wouldn't know it or believe it. they have an idea in their head of what someone "like that" should be.. which is part of the problem. people like KC just have to "fit" the role these folks have playing in their heads, and half the battle is done.
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HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE. If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly.
I wish people would use their BRAINS?/MIND and analyse the truth of what they are being told in relation to what is being done.
If you are The Great I AM and you can make what you think become a reality, then where is your power coming from and what are the limits emposed on it? Do you need to group around a 'Shaman', kneeling with arms outstreched to beam energy into crystals? This is nonsense!
What is the size and range of a thought/intent? Does it matter wether you are holding a crystal in your hands or if it's a foot away or a mile? If you are God or Goddess, are you unable to affect crystals that are allready there in abundance right beneath your feet? You don't need a Fake NA Shaman to do this. You are being told to believe one thing and led to act in a way that contradicts these beliefs. You don't need someone to be your focus. Everything you are being told you can read about with more depth on the internet, for no fee.
And also, nobody can give you a totem animal and colour. It has to come to you via SPIRIT if you want to really know. True knowledge doesn't come from going to talks, it comes with some serious effort by communing within.
You are being told that wearing crystals will bring you closer with Earth and form a link where you can send love to the Earth. What would you do if you didn't have crystals? Would this in some way mark you as insufficiently 'connected'? Can't you see how stupid this is? Don't you know your bodies are allready filled with millions of crystals? Do your research!
edit: and the ones we allready have in us are the ones that work best for us if we have any faith in Creator at all.
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if these people met a real life spiritual so&so.. they wouldn't know it or believe it. they have an idea in their head of what someone "like that" should be..
lol, yes! you wouldn't even know them walking down the street from a 'normal' person, I imagine.
But Kiesha says she can see the energy and feel it etc, and gives the impression she knows what to do to 'make it right'. That's why her followers need her, because they can't do it themselves. What they are actually doing imo, is sending energy to illusion and trickery. If we want to see this as an entity then it's not one you want to be voting for.
It's amusing that in one of her videos there is a drum behind her with a dragonfly painted on it, which is said to symbolise the ability to see through illusions. It's like a symbolic mockery or joke. Something the dark-side love to do.
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Update, here are some of the new videos:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzbfByAdSo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzbfByAdSo) Why our 'friend' likes Sweden
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9phGyMm3Tc Don't be fooled by any pretty plastic shamans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5fvsE_W28 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5fvsE_W28) What is it like to be fooled by a plastic shaman?
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HEY FOLKS OUT THERE, TO BECOME A MEDICINE PERSON THEY DON'T CALL YOU ON THE PHONE. If you are called to be a *medicine person* it is SPIRIT that calls you directly.
I wish people would use their BRAINS?/MIND and analyse the truth of what they are being told in relation to what is being done.
If you are The Great I AM and you can make what you think become a reality, then where is your power coming from and what are the limits emposed on it? Do you need to group around a 'Shaman', kneeling with arms outstreched to beam energy into crystals? This is nonsense!
What is the size and range of a thought/intent? Does it matter wether you are holding a crystal in your hands or if it's a foot away or a mile? If you are God or Goddess, are you unable to affect crystals that are allready there in abundance right beneath your feet? You don't need a Fake Shaman to do this. You are being told to believe one thing and led to act in a way that contradicts these beliefs. You don't need someone to be your focus. Everything you are being told you can read about with more depth on the internet, for no fee.
And also, nobody can give you a totem animal and colour. It has to come to you via SPIRIT if you want to really know. True knowledge doesn't come from going to talks, it comes with some serious effort by communing within.
You are being told that wearing crystals will bring you closer with Earth and form a link where you can send love to the Earth. What would you do if you didn't have crystals? Would this in some way mark you as insufficiently 'connected'? Can't you see how stupid this is? Don't you know your bodies are allready filled with millions of crystals? Do your research!
And How! Meanwhile back at the ranch here is a quote i borrowed from one of the many pages i have been reading and the link since i arrived here which certainly says it all to those who follow blindly from one who most consider a bona-fide "holy man":
"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)
The link to this article is one that contains many great quotes on this stealing and polluting of NDN spirituality. I recommend it to everyone as it may serve as good ammunition to this cause.
http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm (http://www.lelandra.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm)
And Yes SAMy it seems that my voice is returning and i'm on fire, but you can thank yourself and the others here for providing me with the spark! :-* Thanks!
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After years of being on this site I still haven't figured out how to post pictures. I've been wanting to post picture of what an area, usually a formally wild and rural area, looks like after it is blasted. Pit and surface mining and the blasting that goes along with has a hugely negative environmental impact. It destroys habitat, messes up water was and water health and just plain posses me off. 'Ethically' mined crystals ARE STILL MINED, quite often in third world countries by indigenous and poor people. Yes crystals are pretty. I have quite a few myself that I got long before I realized how dreadful the whole process is.
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If you email them to me I can get 'em posted.
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Thanks :) I'll email em in the morning when I'm back on my computer.
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"Each student must be encouraged to take responsible measures to confront teachers with unethical aspects of their conduct. If the teacher shows no sign of reform, students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects of his or her work and of one's spiritual commitment to that teacher"
-His Holiness the Dalai Lama (Letter to the Sangha on Western Buddhism)
.com/comptarot/tarotindian.htm[/url]
Yep, which is alot different from saying to people to disregard their 'mind-consciousness' and just 'switch the channel' when coming accross anything that makes them feel 'negative'.
What's really bizarre is how much people will spend to be told over and over again that where they should be seeking the truth is within, how we are all One, and the interconnectedness of all things. Like yeah. Don't spend any more money on people telling you about it.
If you want to heal the earth go and do something practical as well as sitting and sending love energy. You can even do that while gardening or washing the dishes with eco-friendly dish-soap.
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All you need do is right click on the photo of your choice, then choose "copy image url" , paste the url into the message box, next highlight the url text, then select 'insert image' second from the left of the second row of formatting options. Basically following what you would do if you wanted to include an active link, same protocol just a different function. Hope this helps
(http://littlegrandmother.net/images/Kiesha%20meditating%20in%20water.jpg)
"Little Grandmother in Meditation" from her website
Does this say it all? Imagine having a photographer handy to take a photo of you "meditating"!!! ::) I can only imagine that the followers will now go sit in the water to meditate "properly" along with having their crystals in place to connect to Mother Earth or else! How on earth can people not see this for what it is? Out of all the plastic shame-ons i have now read about and all their antics i am quickly coming to see that KC-LG is the most ridiculous of them all? This is truly PATHETIC. :o
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This is the sort of ignorance that we are trying to break through (truly ignorant in the sense of the word, and not meant as a jibe):
STOP BUSTING MY CHOPS- AND TRAILING MY POSTS- What you're posting is False information!!!
Kiesha Crowther never claimed to be a Shaman from any one of those Tribes that you posted.
Those people are completly STUPID to think that she is even speaking for them. Thier names never were mentioned once in all of her You tube video broadcasts. They are simply trying to Divert attention away from her awsome messege of love and peace. People freak out when they hear someone actually trying to send a messege of love these days, and automatically jump tp conclusions and think they're tyring to form a cult or somthing. WISE UP, She's a spokes person for her tribe- get it?
In my opinion, her claiming to be a wisdom keeper, isn't all that bad either- she has great wisdom to tell everyone, Love.
Jesus Christ agrees with me too
People simply don't register what she says for some reason. I'm beginning to wonder at the enormity of the 'selective hearing' going on. It's truly baffling.
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This is the sort of ignorance that we are trying to break through (truly ignorant in the sense of the word, and not meant as a jibe):
In my opinion, her claiming to be a wisdom keeper, isn't all that bad either- she has great wisdom to tell everyone, Love.
Jesus Christ agrees with me too
People simply don't register what she says for some reason. I'm beginning to wonder at the enormity of the 'selective hearing' going on. It's truly baffling.
It is as it is in that people hear what they want to hear and god help you if you challenge that which does not hold up, as you can see this particular person also speaks for Jesus Christ. Not to worry about those who cannot yet see through things, their time will come, but do not forget those who have been reached and who had been questioning things. We have put the nail in that coffin and so then the time spent to show what is false was not wasted. As mentioned we live in a delusional population who thinks nothing of the exploitation of anything. The only thing meaningfull to these people is all that is plastic, this is all they know, and this is why the planet is in such disarray! Meanwhile Carry On - FORWARD!
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TY oneforall, your right it's important to think of those that the message is getting through to :-)
Here are some of her claims, again:
http://littlegrandmother.net/UKEVENT.aspx
"Kiesha Crowther, also known as “Little Grandmother,” was initiated as shaman at age 30 by her mother’s tribe (Sioux/Salish), and has been recognized by the Continental Council of Indigenous Elders as Wisdom Keeper for North America, responsible for guiding the “Tribe of Many Colors.” "
"Since being initiated on her path as shaman and Wisdom Keeper, she has begun to share prophecy and teachings and to conduct sacred ceremony. She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age."
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html
"Is Kiesha Really Native American? Is she a Legitimate Shaman?
Kiesha’s maternal side of the family is Sioux and Salish, and comes from the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and recognized as a shaman by the elders of this tribe at age 30 (she had actually been recognized and marked out at age 8 as a future shaman while attending a tribal ceremony.) However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”."
She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age
Please, followers of Kiesha, just take on board what this is saying here, exactly.
What it is saying is that she is THE ONE who is put in place for all to look up to as the channel of wisdom and ancient teachings for ALL PEOPLE OF THIS AGE to turn to for these truths!
This is a VERY EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM!.
Where is the proof?
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"Do the names Sun Bear, Wallace Black Elk, Oh Shinna Fast Wolf, Brook Medicine Eagle, Harley Reagan Swiftdeer, Buck Ghost Horse, or Mary Thunder mean anything to you? Well, they should, because these pseudo-medicine quacks are passing themselves off as Native American spiritual leaders. Native American spirituality has become a fad to many New Age non-Indians and their naivete is being exploited to the limit by plastic medicine people, much to the dismay of traditional elders. Practicing Native American spirituality out of the context of Native American culture diminishes the integrity of both.
Many of these people are actually Indians who are spreading false rituals for profit. The rest are white men and women who claim to be Indian. For the most part they have changed their names to Indian names to lend authenticity to their flock.
One way to tell if these people are legitimate is whether they go into the Native American communities they claim to be from and perform the same rituals."
(Wendy Rose (Hopi))
It seems that in time the name of Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother will be added to this list, but the immensity of this "problem" is daunting. Look at all the names not mentioned. There is a Divine Intelligence that can be summoned and this intelligence is NOT the noisy mind chatter, and it DOES come from a deepness of the heart, a quiet sacred place that is all so very private and personal. One does not access it through teachings, books, seminars, crystals or other outer manifestations. One need not sit in water, wear certain clothing, hold crystals, or any other thing, one must simply be silent and in privacy OPEN to that which is just a heartbeat away, awaiting ones discovery. We can not teach anyone anything, these revelations we receive are for us and never meant to be made into some dogma. This is the follower mentality of self-aggrandizement that all religions practice, it is a lie and leads not to peace and love and unity but to insanity, exploitation, separation, and depravity. To steal from NDN people in any way is such a travesty, as they have died just to keep and to have the right to practice their faith. It takes great strength to be able to forgive the transgressions that time has wrought, and yet this i understand is key to going forward. Such a tight-wire to walk this crazy life. To walk it in TRUTH is everything and nothing, what a paradox. Oh well just keep on keepin on and smiling at the reflection in the other side of that mirror i guess. INTEGRITY can not be taken by anyone or anything. Those that mislead others have themselves been misled and it seems to go round and round, until someone comes along, sheds some real light on the "merry go round", and those who were wondering already, jump off to land squarely on the sacred ground. Off the gold plated misery go round of the deluded ones, never to return. Victory! That is worth it then for those who were ready and just needed a little "help" The ones still riding that ride will unfortunately just get dizzier, but this is their choice.
Forgive me if this is off topic, but i had to get it off my chest. Way past my bedtime.
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She bears the responsibility for carrying and communicating earth wisdom and the ancient prophecies for our current age -
Please, followers of Kiesha, just take on board what this is saying here, exactly.
What it is saying is that she is THE ONE who is put in place for all to look up to as the channel of wisdom and ancient teachings for ALL PEOPLE OF THIS AGE to turn to for these truths!
This is a VERY EXTRAORDINARY CLAIM!.
It is also very egoistic claim, when you are doing it yourself and seemingly lack the proof. I mean, it is healthy to know your own value, but if you go around searching for people who to proclaim it... Everyone stumbles in it occasionally ofc, but for "normal" person with not to extraordinary "gifts" it stays quite small. This stuff with "chosen" ones always makes me think of hollywood...
Claims to be superior or to have superior people backing you up like this are also good sign of insecurity in the person and desire to build your own person stronger by lifting it through others or any achievement which is elevated and/or exaggerated or desire just be acknowledged by other people in whatever means by roles you are playing (victim, bully, "saint", know it all...). I should know, I've been fighting this thing often with myself in the past. Takes one to know one. :p Altho, I prefer not to lie about my "achievements", where's the honor in that and how would you actually learn to appreciate and respect yourself at all either, when not being truthful about who you are, where you come from and what you do. But in any case, for a person like this, the phone call from "elders" would work very well, so she could be used by others in this as well, if it is planned well enough to keep her under charm. And she would be thankful to tears too, to spread the "message". Altho... the info about being an artist and poet... I know how well we "artists" can boil up good stories and relate to different sorts of people to find just the way to act to catch them and to almost magically know what to say to get attention in different situations, just don't want to think that she would be that thoughtless, and plain evil, that she would have cooked it all up by herself. (Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble....)
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Well, since NOONE (not even The Dalai Lama) would make tha claim about being THE communicator of earth wisdom for the world, I guess the position is free. After all, she has said that she is the Creator and you can´t get much higher, can you?
Seriously, sometimes when I try to make people open their eyes, it is actually easier to go along with ridiculous claims, pretending they are true. Then ask questions based on these claims until followers are pushed over the edge, so to say, seeing how impossible it is. Quite often it works better that way.
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To some it does work better that way, yes. :)
I have started to ask if creating your own world means that you can create yourself a new past and background you always wished to have as well, and if it means that it is true after you declare it being so... And saying that if remembering who I am means that I have to start pretending to be something I have not born to be - which creates guilt and shame and is disrespectful to both myself and the thing I am trying to pretend to be - I rather just create myself a good life and future without "remembering" who I am suppose to be and just be truthful to myself and others... :p
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All this makes me thinks some political propaganda in the shades of history... Where people were led to think certain things as good things and to skip all the critic... (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda)
From Wikipedia:
Propaganda campaigns often follow a strategic transmission pattern to indoctrinate the target group. This may begin with a simple transmission such as a leaflet dropped from a plane or an advertisement. Generally these messages will contain directions on how to obtain more information, via a web site, hot line, radio program, et cetera (as it is seen also for selling purposes among other goals). The strategy intends to initiate the individual from information recipient to information seeker through reinforcement, and then from information seeker to opinion leader through indoctrination.
A number of techniques based in social psychological research are used to generate propaganda. Many of these same techniques can be found under logical fallacies, since propagandists use arguments that, while sometimes convincing, are not necessarily valid.
Some time has been spent analyzing the means by which the propaganda messages are transmitted. That work is important but it is clear that information dissemination strategies become propaganda strategies only when coupled with propagandistic messages. Identifying these messages is a necessary prerequisite to study the methods by which those messages are spread. Below are a number of techniques for generating propaganda:
Propaganda to urge immigrants to move to California, 1876
Ad hominem
A Latin phrase that has come to mean attacking one's opponent, as opposed to attacking their arguments.
Ad nauseam
This argument approach uses tireless repetition of an idea. An idea, especially a simple slogan, that is repeated enough times, may begin to be taken as the truth. This approach works best when media sources are limited or controlled by the propagator.
Appeal to authority
Appeals to authority cite prominent figures to support a position, idea, argument, or course of action.
Appeal to fear
Appeals to fear and seeks to build support by instilling anxieties and panic in the general population, for example, Joseph Goebbels exploited Theodore Kaufman's Germany Must Perish! to claim that the Allies sought the extermination of the German people.
Appeal to prejudice
Using loaded or emotive terms to attach value or moral goodness to believing the proposition. Used in biased or misleading ways.
Bandwagon
Bandwagon and "inevitable-victory" appeals attempt to persuade the target audience to join in and take the course of action that "everyone else is taking".
Inevitable victory
Invites those not already on the bandwagon to join those already on the road to certain victory. Those already or at least partially on the bandwagon are reassured that staying aboard is their best course of action.
Join the crowd
This technique reinforces people's natural desire to be on the winning side. This technique is used to convince the audience that a program is an expression of an irresistible mass movement and that it is in their best interest to join.
Beautiful people
The type of propaganda that deals with famous people or depicts attractive, happy people. This makes other people think that if they buy a product or follow a certain ideology, they too will be happy or successful.
Big Lie
The repeated articulation of a complex of events that justify subsequent action. The descriptions of these events have elements of truth, and the "big lie" generalizations merge and eventually supplant the public's accurate perception of the underlying events. After World War I the German Stab in the back explanation of the cause of their defeat became a justification for Nazi re-militarization and revanchist aggression.
Black-and-white fallacy
Presenting only two choices, with the product or idea being propagated as the better choice. For example: "You're either with us, or against us...."
Classical conditioning
All vertebrates, including humans, respond to classical conditioning. That is, if object A is always present when object B is present and object B causes a negative physical reaction (e.g., disgust, pleasure) then we will when presented with object A when object B is not present, we will experience the same feelings.
Cognitive dissonance
People desire to be consistent. Suppose a pollster finds that a certain group of people hates his candidate for senator but love actor A. They use actor A's endorsement of their candidate to change people's minds because people cannot tolerate inconsistency. They are forced to either to dislike the actor or like the candidate.
Common man
The "plain folks" or "common man" approach attempts to convince the audience that the propagandist's positions reflect the common sense of the people. It is designed to win the confidence of the audience by communicating in the common manner and style of the target audience. Propagandists use ordinary language and mannerisms (and clothe their message in face-to-face and audiovisual communications) in attempting to identify their point of view with that of the average person. For example, a propaganda leaflet may make an argument on a macroeconomic issue, such as unemployment insurance benefits, using everyday terms: "Given that the country has little money during this recession, we should stop paying unemployment benefits to those who do not work, because that is like maxing out all your credit cards during a tight period, when you should be tightening your belt."
Cult of personality
A cult of personality arises when an individual uses mass media to create an idealized and heroic public image, often through unquestioning flattery and praise. The hero personality then advocates the positions that the propagandist desires to promote. For example, modern propagandists hire popular personalities to promote their ideas and/or products.
Demonizing the enemy
Making individuals from the opposing nation, from a different ethnic group, or those who support the opposing viewpoint appear to be subhuman (e.g., the Vietnam War-era term "gooks" for National Front for the Liberation of South Vietnam aka Vietcong, or "VC", soldiers), worthless, or immoral, through suggestion or false accusations. Dehumanizing is also a termed used synonymously with demonizing, the latter usually serves as an aspect of the former.
Dictat
This technique hopes to simplify the decision making process by using images and words to tell the audience exactly what actions to take, eliminating any other possible choices. Authority figures can be used to give the order, overlapping it with the Appeal to authority technique, but not necessarily. The Uncle Sam "I want you" image is an example of this technique.
Disinformation
The creation or deletion of information from public records, in the purpose of making a false record of an event or the actions of a person or organization, including outright forgery of photographs, motion pictures, broadcasts, and sound recordings as well as printed documents.
Door-in-the-face technique
Is used to increase a person's latitude of acceptance. For example, if a salesperson wants to sell an item for $100 but the public is only willing to pay $50, the salesperson first offers the item at a higher price (e.g., $200) and subsequently reduces the price to $100 to make it seem like a good deal.
Euphoria
The use of an event that generates euphoria or happiness, or using an appealing event to boost morale. Euphoria can be created by declaring a holiday, making luxury items available, or mounting a military parade with marching bands and patriotic messages.
Fear, uncertainty and doubt
An attempt to influence public perception by disseminating negative and dubious/false information designed to undermine the credibility of their beliefs.
Flag-waving
An attempt to justify an action on the grounds that doing so will make one more patriotic, or in some way benefit a country, group or idea the targeted audience supports.
Foot-in-the-door technique
Often used by recruiters and salesmen. For example, a member of the opposite sex walks up to the victim and pins a flower or gives a small gift to the victim. The victim says thanks and now they have incurred a psychological debt to the perpetrator. The person eventually asks for a larger favor (e.g., a donation or to buy something far more expensive). The unwritten social contract between the victim and perpetrator causes the victim to feel obligated to reciprocate by agreeing to do the larger favor or buy the more expensive gift.
Glittering generalities
Glittering generalities are emotionally appealing words that are applied to a product or idea, but present no concrete argument or analysis. A famous example is the campaign slogan "Ford has a better idea!" This technique has also been referred to as the PT Barnum effect.
Half-truth
A half-truth is a deceptive statement, which may come in several forms and includes some element of truth. The statement might be partly true, the statement may be totally true but only part of the whole truth, or it may utilize some deceptive element, such as improper punctuation, or double meaning, especially if the intent is to deceive, evade, blame or misrepresent the truth.
Labeling
A euphemism is used when the propagandist attempts to increase the perceived quality, credibility, or credence of a particular ideal. A Dysphemism is used when the intent of the propagandist is to discredit, diminish the perceived quality, or hurt the perceived righteousness of the Mark. By creating a "label" or "category" or "faction" of a population, it is much easier to make an example of these larger bodies, because they can uplift or defame the Mark without actually incurring legal-defamation. Example: "Liberal" is a dysphemism intended to diminish the perceived credibility of a particular Mark. By taking a displeasing argument presented by a Mark, the propagandist can quote that person, and then attack "liberals" in an attempt to both (1) create a political battle-ax of unaccountable aggression and (2) diminish the quality of the Mark. If the propagandist uses the label on too-many perceivably credible individuals, muddying up the word can be done by broadcasting bad-examples of "liberals" into the media. Labeling can be thought of as a sub-set of Guilt by association, another logical fallacy.
Latitudes of acceptance
If a person's message is outside the bounds of acceptance for an individual and group, most techniques will engender psychological reactance (simply hearing the argument will make the message even less acceptable). There are two techniques for increasing the bounds of acceptance. First, one can take a more even extreme position that will make more moderate positions seem more acceptable. This is similar to the Door-in-the-Face technique. Alternatively, one can moderate one's own position to the edge of the latitude of acceptance and then over time slowly move to the position that was previously.[9]
Love bombing
Used to recruit members to a cult or ideology by having a group of individuals cut off a person from their existing social support and replace it entirely with members of the group who deliberately bombard the person with affection in an attempt to isolate the person from their prior beliefs and value system—see Milieu control.
Lying and deception
Lying and deception can be the basis of many propaganda techniques including Ad Homimen arguments, Big-Lie, Defamation, Door-in-the-Face, Half-truth, Name-calling or any other technique that is based on dishonesty or deception. For example, many politicians have been found to frequently stretch or break the truth.
Managing the news
According to Adolf Hitler's propaganda minister Joseph Goebbels "The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."[10] This idea is consistent with the principle of classical conditioning as well as the idea of "Staying on Message."
Milieu control
An attempt to control the social environment and ideas through the use of social pressure
Name-calling
Propagandists use the name-calling technique to incite fears and arouse prejudices in their hearers in the intent that the bad names will cause hearers to construct a negative opinion about a group or set of beliefs or ideas that the propagandist wants hearers to denounce. The method is intended to provoke conclusions about a matter apart from impartial examinations of facts. Name-calling is thus a substitute for rational, fact-based arguments against the an idea or belief on its own merits.[11]
Obfuscation, intentional vagueness, confusion
Generalities are deliberately vague so that the audience may supply its own interpretations. The intention is to move the audience by use of undefined phrases, without analyzing their validity or attempting to determine their reasonableness or application. The intent is to cause people to draw their own interpretations rather than simply being presented with an explicit idea. In trying to "figure out" the propaganda, the audience forgoes judgment of the ideas presented. Their validity, reasonableness and application may still be considered.
Obtain disapproval or Reductio ad Hitlerum
This technique is used to persuade a target audience to disapprove of an action or idea by suggesting that the idea is popular with groups hated, feared, or held in contempt by the target audience. Thus if a group that supports a certain policy is led to believe that undesirable, subversive, or contemptible people support the same policy, then the members of the group may decide to change their original position. This is a form of bad logic, where a is said to include X, and b is said to include X, therefore, a = b.
Operant conditioning
Operant conditioning involves learning through imitation. For example, watching an appealing person buy products or endorse positions teaches a person to buy the product or endorse the position. Operant conditioning is the underlying principle behind the Ad Nauseam, Slogan and other repetition public relations campaigns.
Oversimplification
Favorable generalities are used to provide simple answers to complex social, political, economic, or military problems.
Pensée unique
Enforced reduction of discussion by use of overly simplistic phrases or arguments (e.g., "There is no alternative to war.")
Quotes out of context
Selectively editing quotes to change meanings—political documentaries designed to discredit an opponent or an opposing political viewpoint often make use of this technique.
Rationalization (making excuses)
Individuals or groups may use favorable generalities to rationalize questionable acts or beliefs. Vague and pleasant phrases are often used to justify such actions or beliefs.
Red herring
Presenting data or issues that, while compelling, are irrelevant to the argument at hand, and then claiming that it validates the argument.
Repetition
This is the repeating of a certain symbol or slogan so that the audience remembers it. This could be in the form of a jingle or an image placed on nearly everything in the picture/scene.
Scapegoating
Assigning blame to an individual or group, thus alleviating feelings of guilt from responsible parties and/or distracting attention from the need to fix the problem for which blame is being assigned.
Slogans
A slogan is a brief, striking phrase that may include labeling and stereotyping. Although slogans may be enlisted to support reasoned ideas, in practice they tend to act only as emotional appeals. Opponents of the US's invasion and occupation of Iraq use the slogan "blood for oil" to suggest that the invasion and its human losses was done to access Iraq's oil riches. On the other hand, supporters who argue that the US should continue to fight in Iraq use the slogan "cut and run" to suggest withdrawal is cowardly or weak.
Stereotyping
This technique attempts to arouse prejudices in an audience by labeling the object of the propaganda campaign as something the target audience fears, hates, loathes, or finds undesirable. For instance, reporting on a foreign country or social group may focus on the stereotypical traits that the reader expects, even though they are far from being representative of the whole country or group; such reporting often focuses on the anecdotal. In graphic propaganda, including war posters, this might include portraying enemies with stereotyped racial features.
Straw man
A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.
Testimonial
Testimonials are quotations, in or out of context, especially cited to support or reject a given policy, action, program, or personality. The reputation or the role (expert, respected public figure, etc.) of the individual giving the statement is exploited. The testimonial places the official sanction of a respected person or authority on a propaganda message. This is done in an effort to cause the target audience to identify itself with the authority or to accept the authority's opinions and beliefs as its own.
Third party technique
Works on the principle that people are more willing to accept an argument from a seemingly independent source of information than from someone with a stake in the outcome. It is a marketing strategy commonly employed by Public Relations (PR) firms, that involves placing a premeditated message in the "mouth of the media." Third party technique can take many forms, ranging from the hiring of journalists to report the organization in a favorable light, to using scientists within the organization to present their perhaps prejudicial findings to the public. Frequently astroturf groups or front groups are used to deliver the message.
Thought-terminating cliché
A commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to quell cognitive dissonance.
Transfer
Also known as association, this is a technique that involves projecting the positive or negative qualities of one person, entity, object, or value onto another to make the second more acceptable or to discredit it. It evokes an emotional response, which stimulates the target to identify with recognized authorities. Often highly visual, this technique often utilizes symbols (e.g. swastikas) superimposed over other visual images (e.g. logos). These symbols may be used in place of words.
Unstated assumption
This technique is used when the idea the propagandist wants to plant would seem less credible if explicitly stated. The concept is instead repeatedly assumed or implied.
Virtue words
These are words in the value system of the target audience that produce a positive image when attached to a person or issue. Peace, happiness, security, wise leadership, freedom, "The Truth", etc. are virtue words. Many see religiosity as a virtue, making associations to this quality affectively beneficial. Their use is considered of the Transfer propaganda technique.
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lets all create a you tube video saying "i'm LITTLE GRAND MOTHER"... "NO I'M LITTLE GRANDMOTHER"...
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Actually I am going to make a video and say " Kiesha Crowther is pretending to be a native american shaman of the Sioux Salish tribe... I am an American Indian pretending to be Kiesha Crowther" ;)
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I recieved a pm from Ashla this morning. Due to personal circumstance she will not be able to actively participate for the time being.
Ashla - Thank you so much for your imput in this issue. It's been very much appreciated.
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Actually I am going to make a video and say " Kiesha Crowther is pretending to be a native american shaman of the Sioux Salish tribe... I am an American Indian pretending to be Kiesha Crowther" ;)
;D ;D
I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!
What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title ;D ;D
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Kiesha the ecofriendly crystal promoting shame-on approves of the following -
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Yup, that's a real good way to heal the earth....
>:(
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Great photos, Sky! Thank you for posting them!
As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).
How appropriate (and scary) that "both of them" are handling a Pipe. :-\
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I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!
What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title
Well, I think that the first 12 get away with it as the other young wisdom keepers. :p
As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. This very strange man turns up, dressed in multicolored clothing (Hollywood-style Native American clothing), promising everyone to remove the rats of Hamelin (to remove the evil, the dark ones, of the world). He does but is not satisfied with the payment (can´t get enough attention/money) so he comes back with his magic Pipe (mesmarizing messages), hypnotizing all the children of the town to follow him. He leads them away, never to return again....(blind and deaf for warnings and criticism).
In my wild imagination, I have had many similar thoughts, how much wrong you can actually do with that kind of power over people... I am trying to keep myself from not doing it over to that side either and keep in the facts mostly. It is scary thought in any case.
And about the crystal mining, there are those kind of books that talk about earth imbalances because of human activity like taking the minerals and oil and crystals out of there and all... If wanting to create huge conspiracy theory, something like causing the strip mining of the rest of the "shield" and energy store of earth would be quite a great thing from dark ones. :p I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)
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I might make a video (leaning against a runestone) saying I´m THE spokesperson for ALL shamans from ALL over the world. Not just North America.... I mean, c´mon!!
What if we all did that? 100 of us claiming that title
lol, a wisdomkeeper has to choose their words wisely.
apparently, if kiesha fesses up, there are another 11 hiding in the shadows to replace her.....
(according to her 'misinformation' response page)
As I love using stories and legends to enhance teachings, I came to think of the old legend "The Pied Piper of Hamelin", from the 13th Century. .........
I love this poem. Kieshas followers would be better off getting 'enlightened' with the wisdom in it.
A similar image came to my mind when I realised she was fake. The 'Child-Catcher' from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. My feelings were more about the ones behind her 'throne'.
I think that most of the "bad" people are able to be very charming too when it suits for them. :p (talking about keeping in the facts, lol... Sorry. :p)
and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.
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Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:
Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.
However, she also claims that Crowther was recognized as a "shaman" by a single Salish elder named Falling Feathers who, conveniently for their story, has recently passed away.
Jennifer goes on to smear the Salish elders as being motivated by politics, but is very vague as to how or why, though she implies they are being racist because she's fairskinned.
(Oh no, those poor white people being persecuted by evil NDNs! ::))
Jennifer also claims there is a woman Salish elder who they absolutely refuse to name who also recognizes Crowther.
They also absolutely refuse to name who Crowther's mother is, though they claim she is "half blood Sioux and Salish." They also claim Crowther has relatives on the Flathead reservation.
To say that Jennifer's claims are confused is putting it mildly. She refers throughout her message to the "governor" of the tribe and the "Confederated Sioux and Salish". Neither of those exist.
At one point in the message, she claims that Falling Feathers was an elder, at another point a member of the "governing council", at another point she admits she doesn't know what he was. (Theh why the heck should anyone listen to what FF had to say? He could simply have been a confused elderly man.)
I've looked at the Flathead site and see no mention of a council member recently passing.
Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.
If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.
Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.
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and most loving people have a bit of monster in them too....somewhere, and can be very viscious when they want to, like when their beloved leader is challenged.
True. Every person has bit of both. :) I usually get vicious when I smell the injustice or people or other living things getting hurt by something. Trying to keep myself on the ground as much as I can tho. :p
And the claims seem to get weirder and weirder... when just a name or two would do.
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Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:
Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.
Hah! So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to.
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Myself, I wonder if the repeated changes in their stories are just to avoid lawsuits, or to give their followers a shred to cling to when the lies become too obvious.
From the reaction of her followers, I would be surprised if it made much difference to their belief in her if she actually made a public statement withdrawing her belief that she was genuinely made a Shaman by anyone.
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Finally, Jennifer repeats the claim that Perez, the Mayanist Nuager, recognized her as a shaman through a translator. No mention of where this supposedly happened, or why a supposed Mayanist (not Mayan, see the thread on him) was doing at either the Flathead rez or Crowther's hometown of Sanford Colorado.
If you look at the mentions of Perez elsewhere at nafps, you'll see Perez specifically mocks those who believe in the 2012 hoax.
I think he has also participated in one of the events which Crowther attended too, called 'Return of the ancestors' if i'm correct. As he seems to be New Age oriented, idk, it could be that he supported her for the audience there. I don't know how much to believe of him, but yes he denounced the 2012 hoax several times recently.
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Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:
Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.
Hah! So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever
else they think they can lay claim to.
Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze. Make up whatever story to get folks to keep their minds closed and just keep listening to all the nice heart-centered nonsense.
For anyone who thinks the Bible is a good reference, whenever you hear someone say we don't need the mind, we just need to live in the heart (that's such a common cult warning flag) then maybe pickup that old book and read this to realize that the heart and the mind need each other, both of them can be untrustworthy:
Jeremiah 17:9-11
9 - The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?
10 - I, the Lord, search the heart, I test the mind, Even to give to each man according to his ways, According to the results of his deeds.
11 - As a partridge that hatches eggs which it has not laid, So is he who makes a fortune, but unjustly; In the midst of his days it will forsake him, And in the end he will be a fool.
That last sentence is precious.
Don't be caught up by someone who claims to know exactly how every single person ought to live. We are all UNIQUE creations. If you are looking outside of yourself for that leader to help flip us to the golden age, then you are headed for trouble BIG TIME.
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Crowther's assistant and longtime friend Jennifer sent a message to one of the members here. In it, Jennifer makes some new claims:
Supposedly they now admit Crowther was NOT recognized by either Salish nor "Sioux" councils of elders. Jennifer in fact admits that Salish elders specifically do NOT recognize Crowther.
Hah! So.. now they re-beef the story claiming Mayan, I supposed they'll drag the Buddhists and whoever else they think they can lay claim to.
Crowther has already failed with the Buddhists:
I've sent a message through her site's contact form:
In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much
Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.
Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.
I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.
It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.
I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.
However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
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So we see that, once again, Crowther passes off brief meetings as being "taught" or "recognized" by various people.
This is very common in newage circles, or was when I had my brush with them in the eighties. Rootless newagers will go to one ceremony or ritual, or even just a lecture with someone, then claim that person was their teacher. If they go to a ceremony that has any sort of cleansing or rebirth motif, they will also then claim they were "initiated" by the ritual leader.
Some people have found that a simple conversation with one of these seekers will end up with being called that seeker's "teacher". Some of the newagers mean it as a sign of respect, and don't know it's wrong to presume that sort of connection. But others exploit any meeting to try and give themselves credibility and backing they do not have.
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Funny that she is not recognized as a shaman by the Samis. ;)
Being in Sweden and all....after all, she meets a LAMA in Sweden who recognizes her!
I wonder if she just forgot they exist or if she realized exactly how upset the Samis would have been if she had gone along with it. LOL
Have to tell you about my Sami friend who went to a party, saw this non-Sami woman dressed up in a Sami outfit (which was a man´s outfit, by the way) and just went up and ripped the clothes off her. Proud to be her friend! LOL
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Well, if you are not rooted by either 1) being called by Spirit (not on the phone) and/or 2) being part of you community that has the traditions you are dressing yourself up as, then you are just waving in the breeze.
I don't want to take this into a tangent, and we've already had a few tangents in this thread, but I need to respond to this. I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.
It's up to traditional spiritual communities to say what criteria it takes to be a a spiritual leader in that community. Standards and requirements vary among tribes and cultures. But if someone is claiming to do anything that practices, or dabbles in, or takes "inspiration" from traditional cultures (as Crowther has claimed) they absolutely cannot claim they have a right to any of these things because "Spirit called them".
Every day we see those people harming the traditions and harming the seekers who follow them.
The people we see who are unhinged from any traditional community, who are out there saying "Spirit called them" are (in my experience and without exception I can think of at the moment) delusional. Traditional communities, traditional ways of life, have time-honoured ways of weeding out the gradiose and fantasy-prone from those who have real connections to the spirits. In my opinion, the purpose of this board is to support the traditional communities who have these ways, and keep crazy and entitled outsiders from exploiting their traditions and harming people with their schemes.
I think if someone who feels rootless and without community feels "called by Spirit" to be some sort of leader or spokesman, they need to seek out a legitimate, grounded, community. Then they need to shut up for a few decades. If after decades of learning and humility and being a normal person of that community, the community leaders and elders ask them to take a leadership role, then they can.
Crowther has obviously done nothing of the sort.
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yeh, I saw that before on the Buddhists, but didn't think KC took it serious, really, as she stands saying she is leader of all ..
not wanting to tangent either here, but i believe there are spiritual people and spiritual leaders without traditional communities, but who also do not act like nimkumpoops and make false claims. i believe this because there are many people
without communities like there used to be.. and I believe Spirit provides to them as well.. just you won't find them on the internet or at seminars or workshops either.
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"You don't stand a chance
Against my prayer
You don't stand a chance
Against my love"
Excellent video in response to Crowther's lies: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embedded
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I have been researching this "little Grandmother" and I have to say the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juoD2CdHBAM&feature=player_embedded that was also posted in the revious post needs to be spread far and wide. As First People it is time we join hands and together fight these frauds! :-[
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(Oh no, those poor white people being persecuted by evil NDNs! ::))
Good one.
And for folks coming in off the Internet, youtube, etc. should know that MANY different kinds, creeds, and colors of folks ALL OVER THE EARTH have significant concerns with LG.
It's not just the hooey around 'At age 30 I was called (ring ring) to be THE Shaman of the Sioux and Salish Tribes', it's nearly every aspect of her message, misrepresentation of 'facts' (using 30% of our brain), very odd statements at times, and trying to use the Native American persona all the while claiming she does not teach anything Native American. (Well, from listening to her that is pretty clear IF YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT NDN ways, most folks won't know the difference and it's not really in LG's interest to be specific on that one, attracts more half-minded folk.) But the fact is she is prancing around like an Indian Princess holdin them magic crystals way up high because only she can save Mother Earth. It is really weird and going cult-side fast.
Do not turn off your mind and just 'live from your heart'. Folks build up cults saying that line all the time. If anything, let the mind and heart be in balance. You wouldn't have it if you weren't supposed to use it.
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(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet2-1.png)
We allready have someone trying to rationalise the absence of her prophecies:
"Kiesha gave this message at the vernal solstice. She may not have been speaking of the calendar year 2010.?"
comment to this vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU_k-COiSzo
??? ::)
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
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I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.
Agreed, thank you for straightening that one out 4me.
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http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411.html
April 5-17, 2011
THE PROPHET'S CONFERENCE
EGYPT with Little Grandmother
Accompanying Little Grandmother will be the expert guide Mohammed Fayed of Guardian Travel and his team of excellent Egyptologists who have worked for many years with expeditions for the Edgar Cayce Association of Research and Enlightenment. They have also been the personal guides for Elizabeth Taylor, Princess Diana, The Grateful Dead, Shirley MacLaine, Ken Kesey, Leo Buscaglia, amongst many other dignitaries and celebrities.
http://www.greatmystery.org/events/egypt0411register.html
Click HERE TO LEARN MORE LOCATION, TRAVEL, SCHEDULE, and COSTS/REGISTER links for additional information about this very special journey.
COSTS
$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare
Prices are based on double occupancy. If you prefer a single room the cost for a single supplement is $940.
To upgrade to business class on Egypt Air, contact us for costs.
A 3% processing fee is added to credit card payments to cover the costs for that service.
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Also on Facebook
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/182675585080227?v=wall
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$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare
This is really sounding like a good money making business. Wow. What does a shaman do in Egypt?
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Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html
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$5,965 with airfare from JFK to Cairo or $5,025 without airfare
This is really sounding like a good money making business. Wow. What does a shaman do in Egypt?
Something like this:
NO sound was heard in the burial chamber of the Great Pyramid as a tall, slender woman lay down in the pharaoh’s pitted granite sarcophagus, her flowing silver hair spreading beneath her. Her dozen or so companions in the dank room lifted their arms, palms upward, eyes closed in meditation.
As was prescribed in the training of priests in pharaonic Egypt, the woman had said, each member of the group had taken a turn in the sarcophagus; now she, their spiritual leader, occupied the space. Suddenly, her lips quivered, and a guttural moan escaped them, bouncing off the smooth stone walls and ceiling like an angry pinball. She climbed out of the sarcophagus, her face creased with determination, and formed the group into a circle, sitting cross-legged. In a deep voice, she read from the Emerald Tablets of Thoth, which she believes were translated from the ancient tongue of Atlantis......
Ms. Billger had everyone lie down. “When ye have released the self from the body, rise to the outermost bounds of your earth-plane,” she intoned, “and speak ye the word Dor-E-Lil-La.”
“Dor-E-Lil-La,” the bodies replied.
This was not a cult; the participants had met only two days before. They were in Egypt on a package tour......
Maybe she will wear the flowing blue dress of an Atlantean High Priestess!
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Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html
Here:
That link has her saying she talks to beings in UFOs, believes in crop circles, and has seen lights from UFOs on a regular basis all her life. She also mentions growing up in a mostly Mormon community. The Mormons have quite a lot of strange roles for NDNs in their prophecies, and an obsession if they somehow can covert many or most NDNs somehow their version of the End Times happens. That, combined with someone whose been seeing visual hallucinations all her life, makes for a convincing explanation in her mind I think.
Some things on that site made me shake my head...
"....this first day of ceremony the heavens truly opened and a these pillars of light I had been seeing for some time began to grow outwardly... until soon they were one large pillar. Many people felt when it happened-- there was a gasp or an intake of breath. There was no denying the presence of the ancestors around us or the massive amount of energy that was flowing from the heavens that day."
That could have come from any TV preacher or other imitator of the story of Moses on Mt Sinai.
And then her ego really gets going. Notice how she claims to direct literally hundreds of Native elders supposedly from all over.
" Most of the men in the circle had no idea what was about to happen and it was probably just as well, since some of them would have probably wanted to exit then and there! I did not envy the men in the circle as I asked them to please stand and join hands. My heart wept for them so deeply as I instructed them on what needed to be done and what was being asked of themÉ to go inward, as deep as they could within themselves and witness all of these atrocities, to witness the grief and pain of the feminine, to feel and release these negative energies, not just in their own lives but for those lives that had come before them throughout history. As I spoke my whole body shuddered as the gut-wrenching sorrow and pain started to build inside of me, as I asked these good-hearted men to do such a hard thing. I must say now that the men in this circle were the strongest and purest hearts I have ever met and I love them deeply. I assured them I did not place any blame on them as individuals and I swore to keep them safe and grounded to Mother Earth and Father Sky the entire time. As I spoke of what needed to happen I had all the woman gather in a larger circle around them "...
The idea that a fairhaired allegedly mixedblood 30 year old woman who'd been raised away from her alleged people all her life would actually command several hundred NDN elders, tell them what needed to be done and they are supposedly lost without her guidance and protection...I don't think I've ever seen or heard of anyone that arrogant, that self deluded, EVER.
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Thanks - 32 pages is a lot to remember...
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yw :-)
She needs to change this now:
Grandmother Lota told me that day that many many people knew that I was coming. Though this, it didn't make any sense to me at all. She said that she understood , as well as the other tribal members, that I had been being taught by the grandmother's past. And for the first time in my life, I knew I wasn't nuts. And everything made sense, in one phone call. They understood what I was being taught, they understood how I saw things. And she also spoke of a group of people that are here on the planet right now, receiving these same lessons. And so, all at once, I was not alone. And all at once, I wasn't crazy. And all at once I had a purpose. They called me to be shaman for the Sioux and the Salish tribes and I have to say, at first I was terrified. What a huge responsibility. What huge commitment. And probably the scariest thing was,if I said yes, I would have to admit to, all of my weirdness, I would have then to share how I saw things, this was very scary for me. But here I am.
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/video-return-of-the-ancestors-transcript.html
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Has anyone read this yet?? WOW!
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html
Well, nice words like these at the end...
"My goal in life is to simply stay true to what I know, be honest and as loving of a person to all walks of life as I can, and to serve, heal and teach others how to love and protect Mother Earth and Her creatures."
I really like the 'be honest' part. Ya, I can see that all the time from her. After all, she is THE Shaman of the Sioux and Salish tribes. NOT!!!
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Wow, not sure if you have looked at the current definition of Plastic Shaman on wikipedia:
Plastic shaman is a pejorative colloquialism applied to individuals who are attempting to pass themselves off as shamans, holy people, or other traditional spiritual leaders, but who have no genuine connection to the traditions or cultures they claim to represent. In some cases, the "plastic shaman" may have some genuine cultural connection, but is seen to be exploiting that knowledge for ego, power or money.
Plastic shamans are believed by their critics to use the mystique of these cultural traditions, and the legitimate curiosity of sincere seekers, for personal gain. In some cases, exploitation of students and traditional culture may involve:
- The selling of fake "traditional" spiritual ceremonies
- Fake artifacts
- Fictional accounts in books
- Illegitimate tours of sacred sites
- And often the chance to buy spiritual titles.
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LG followers say:
"There will always be those who refuse to acknowledge the prophet when they come. History repeats. Do you really want to be one off these?"
(comment from 3 weeks ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M&NR=1
"There is another thread on the subject of Keisha, ( [link to www.godlikeproductions.com] who is recognized by her Sioux elders as a Wisdom Keeper. She is likely the White Buffalo Woman predicted to help her Tribe of Many Colours weather the upcoming shift from the fourth to the fifth world. Remember the sacred medicine wheel has all four races within balanced in harmony and this is the ideal we need to strive for."
(User ID: 1102723 11/16/2010 2:47 AM)
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1088572/pg2
"I'm feeling pulses of vibration through out my body while watching this video.. An incredibly Beautiful video <3"
(comment 1 month ago)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG6LC_5hDXQ
:o
"i LOVE YOU! How, how can I spread your word? I can carry a banner, put a bumper sticker on my car, tie myself to a tree and threat to set myself on fire...anything for mother earth, humanity and? you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc"
Really? a bit scary, that is.
"I love Kiesha so, so, so, so,so, sooooooooo much! She is the icing on our spiritual cake!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY
::)
"Thank you Kiesha, that was awe-inspiring. By the end of the video I had tears streaming down my face, I had goose bumps. I need to watch this every day to remind me of who I am."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY
:'(
"Woow! You really can feel that she is talking from her heart, to your heart. I feel a rush of Love after watching this. Wonderful! Two thumbs up!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY
It's about that rush after all......
"a great teacher! it really doesnt matter if she is a "genuine" tribemember. the things she talks about is whats important. just listen to her words and see what your innerself thinks. dont be stucked in a "we" and ? "them" attitude. it means that you are.. stuck! the teachings from the natives are for the whole world. in this time we all have to work together, and not towards each other. may all beings be free"!!!! love love love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4
>:(
what about the freedom of people to keep their traditions sacred and uncommercialised by wannabes?
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Plastic shamans are believed by their critics to use the mystique of these cultural traditions, and the legitimate curiosity of sincere seekers, for personal gain.
there is no 'belief' about it, lol.
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I don't want to take this into a tangent, and we've already had a few tangents in this thread, but I need to respond to this. I don't think it's appropriate to say "either" in this matter. Every day we see crazy people who have no training, no community, no elders nor the checks and balances of knowledgeable peers, claiming they can be spiritual leaders because "Spirit" "called" them.
It's up to traditional spiritual communities to say what criteria it takes to be a a spiritual leader in that community. Standards and requirements vary among tribes and cultures. But if someone is claiming to do anything that practices, or dabbles in, or takes "inspiration" from traditional cultures (as Crowther has claimed) they absolutely cannot claim they have a right to any of these things because "Spirit called them".
Every day we see those people harming the traditions and harming the seekers who follow them.
The people we see who are unhinged from any traditional community, who are out there saying "Spirit called them" are (in my experience and without exception I can think of at the moment) delusional. Traditional communities, traditional ways of life, have time-honoured ways of weeding out the gradiose and fantasy-prone from those who have real connections to the spirits. In my opinion, the purpose of this board is to support the traditional communities who have these ways, and keep crazy and entitled outsiders from exploiting their traditions and harming people with their schemes.
I think if someone who feels rootless and without community feels "called by Spirit" to be some sort of leader or spokesman, they need to seek out a legitimate, grounded, community. Then they need to shut up for a few decades. If after decades of learning and humility and being a normal person of that community, the community leaders and elders ask them to take a leadership role, then they can.
Crowther has obviously done nothing of the sort.
This is an important point.
Personally I would be more inclined to believe that a spirit had called them if they devoted their life to the service of their people, regardless of the costs to their own lives, which are often considerable.
None of these new age frauds seem to care at all about serving their people, or serving anyone at all. The only thing they serve is their own egos and bank accounts.
They devote their energy to creating a "brand" for themselves in which they are promoted as some kind of super-human being, complete with fancy websites, youtube channels and hundreds / thousands of people worshipping them, performing lots of unpaid work for them and filling their bank accounts with $$$$$$$$.
I doubt that Crowther knows the meaning of the words "humility" or "service".
On the subject of the videos, I absolutely love that last video. Thanks for sharing it. 8)
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LG followers say:
"I love Kiesha so, so, so, so,so, sooooooooo much! She is the icing on our spiritual cake!!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFPu26BJreY
::)
Icing on the cake is probably right. Sweet, sickly, nutrition free and will make you very sick if you consume too much of it.
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LG followers say:
"a great teacher! it really doesnt matter if she is a "genuine" tribemember. the things she talks about is whats important. just listen to her words and see what your innerself thinks. dont be stucked in a "we" and ? "them" attitude. it means that you are.. stuck! the teachings from the natives are for the whole world. in this time we all have to work together, and not towards each other. may all beings be free"!!!! love love love"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK5OOfEmut4
>:(
what about the freedom of people to keep their traditions sacred and uncommercialised by wannabes?
Yes, we all need to work together... wait, all but natives themselves? The ones who own the key to saving the earth in all of your prophecies and teachings? They can be safely disrespected and left out, it doesn't really matter if they are against the half truths or no truths....... :p As long as we get the teachings, even if we have to steal or change them to suit us better and downgrade them...
Lately, when thinking about this all, I get the image of christian church in my mind, someone constantly pissing on the altar and throwing sacred "bread and wine" on the floor and people going "ooh... aah" in awe and cheering in tears.
Christian church since most of us have that background and it is what is teached to us to be sacred. I am not really following the church, but I still wouldn't disrespect even the sacred objects of christianity... Think you all got the point. :)
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I went to Kiesha Crowther's website and read her responses to people calling her out on her lies. And so this is the response that I have sent to her through her web site.
I'm sorry Kiesha. I grew up on the Flathead reserve. All of my family are scattered every where there. I have them from Arlee all the way to Polson, going east to west, and no one knows of you. I have spoken with tribal elders who have no idea who you are. At pow wow, I asked around to see if you were made a shaman over our reserve and our people. I had people laugh in my face.
This is something you'll not be able to clear up in a paragraph or two on your web site. The reason I and others have called you out as a fraud, is because you are stealing from sacred teachings and new age-ing it up. You are combining the ancient teachings with teachings about skulls and the I AM consciousness from the St. Germaine teachings which has nothing at all to do with our culture or beliefs. Worst of all, YOU ARE CHARGING people to teach them falsehoods. The ceremonies are not for sale. You are spitting on my people and the memory of my ancestors. Until I take my last breath on mother earth, I'll not stop speaking out against you until you cease from using my culture and making money off of us. You are lying to everyone. That is why you travel into other countries to give teachings. You go to these spiritually starved people who are dying for an indian experience and you are spoon feeding it to them with big doses of new age quackery. You are as dangerous as the man who ran the sweats in Arizona, the ones those people died in who were desperate for vision. There is NO ONE from the Flathead who has stood up to say YES Kiesha Crowther is shaman over us. You need to stop this, because it will catch up to you and you will have to face the elders here. You cannot keep running in other countries telling these lies. If you are being honest, then let us all see pictures of you with the elders who made you a shaman. You are dishonest and everyone sees this. If you were telling the truth you would have provided names, and proof and these people would stand up with you. Remember White Ego woman? Look her up on youtube. This is what is going to happen to you. Your dynasty of lies and usury will be coming to an end because the people will start showing up at your teachings to tell the truth about you. Remember, OUR CEREMONIES are not for sale.
The final version of the youtube video for the above text is at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbYKpzFfKdE
Thank you shadowfax1920 for posting your extremely EXCELLENT video that everyone who is interested in KC should watch.
http://www.youtube.com/user/shadowfax1920#p/a/u/0/juoD2CdHBAM
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We are the tribe. We are the Rainbow Children. We are the Tribe of Many Colors prophesied to come in the time of great change when the world would receive her blessings, and we the children of this planet would receive our enlightenment.
Rainbow Children?? Makes me wonder if her folks snorted or smoked too many of them desert plants during the hippie days. Either way, This woman sickens me just hearing her name. The Salish Kootenai, The Lakota, The Cherokee, any TRIBE should not have to defend themselves to this mixture of lunatics, wannabes and white people who say they have the power........The only power these people have is to try and destroy what we have had to fix because of them for 100's of years. I personally feel that tribes should bring charges against every last one of them. It is Ancestral Theft in the highest form, almost as much if not as much as as NDN grave robbers and those that do that are caught and persecuted.
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".... The woman were still holding onto their buried pain, suppressing it as we are all taught to do. But as I went from womb to womb the screams and the cries broke out, things started to surface in a huge wave of sorrow. All of the woman fell to the ground. Some lay on their bellies, some on their backs, many were in the fetal position as they wept, wailed and cried out.
Just as in the men's ceremony I witnessed the ancient ones "spirits" step into some of the women and then leave, as they took their turns being witnessed through the different woman lying on the ground.... "
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/transcripts/interview-by-brent-raynes.html
This is wrong on so many levels it baffles me why her followers can't see what is happening here and run a mile from anyone involved in this, especially if this actually happened and isn't just a tall tale to impress people.
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Picture request:
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/FRAUD-TEARS.jpg)
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Picture request:
Very good. I think that tribe name must be 'The Tribe Of Many Dollars'.....
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I can "report" that some of us have been very active in facebook to get the videos and discussion out there and the warnings about kiesha are coming out even in the sources we haven't discussed here and spreading all over, today there's a link to blogtext that warns about her in one of the kiesha fanclub's facebook page and people are asking questions...
Ofcourse most of the reactions are the "listen to your heart" kind and "that is your truth", "it is your word against hers and I know which one I believe"...
I am still into process of writing the page in my own blog, want to add as much info as possible about the whole thing with her and over all exploitation and xmas is kind of distracting me from searching it. :p
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I've been trying to keep up with the latest videos and posting them to my facebook profile. None of my close friends or associates have the awareness of this issue or the passion to see it stopped that I do. But I have had one intense dialogue with a close friend who is often attracted to the New Age types, and have really opened her eyes. I continue to talk about these issues in general to people who really don't think about it one way or another. Hopefully some of it sticks, or at least gets them thinking.
I really cannot look at Kiesha's material except briefly. It makes me physically ill. So I'm no good at doing much direct analysis.
I'll keep doing what I can do.
Nona
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In regards to Facebook, there are a number of "unofficial" Kiesha Crowther pages popping up.
This one is a fan page run by a poster called "Chit Disturber" who links videos from NAFPS
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=130471543655147#!/group.php?gid=130471543655147&v=wall
Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821
Here's another with an advertisement for an event with Kiesha in Cave Creek, Arizona at a place called Casa Mariposa that happened in September...cost of attendance...$149
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=124447410905984&index=1
The little grandmother community page where posters can post anything they like...even videos from NAFPS members...it also includes Youtube user Shadowfax's video.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/little-grandmother/127529483949707?sk=wall#!/pages/little-grandmother/127529483949707?sk=wall
and of course the more "official" page...I say more because there's no evidence Crowther disseminates anything through this page and all content is controlled by her "followers/employees" i.e. Veetkam. This page has hit Facebook's friend limit and therefore new members get denied. It's also a very controlled atmosphere run by the admins with a strict adherence to only discussing things that elevate Crowther's status regardless if they're true or not.
http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther
The more "official" tribe of many colors facebook page...more of the same controlled atmosphere.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500#!/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500?sk=wall
There are other forums out of the tribe of many colors control that also are discussing this topic. The Rick Ross forum has a well written post (by Cresecent, nice job) using info from the board here and other sources and putting a timeline onto some of her claims and how they've changed over time (i.e. The referencing of Alejandro Cirilo Perez to authenticate her 2012 claims, then when finding out that he actually denounces the 2012 theories changing the focus of authentication to Bernard Perona (aka. Drunvalo Melchizedek).
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,95049
I know I'm posting information already posted in the thread. Just bringing things up to date regarding facebook pages, info getting out there and discussions on other forums.
Superdog
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Thanks, Superdog. I'm thinking about somehow highlighting these summation posts like we've done with the Salish statement. Maybe we need a no-tangents, summary/resources thread... thinking on it.
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
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Thanks, Superdog. I'm thinking about somehow highlighting these summation posts like we've done with the Salish statement. Maybe we need a no-tangents, summary/resources thread... thinking on it.
Definately!
we can always link to a quote here if we need to do that.
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
Excellent! Does Vimeo also have that "related videos" function? Can we put this on YouTube, too? I want people who watch her videos to have this pop up as a "related video".
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
perfect.. will post it.. :)
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pming you
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Thanks Critter :)
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Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.
Thanks Spandex. Her crystal promotion thing has been bothering me since she posted it.
Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals. I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.
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Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.
Oh, you wouldn't know how many times Veetkam Rentsch has done this before with other FB pages. He's also published my name and the city where i live in the official Tribe of Many Colors forums, branding me a collaborator and information stringer who is out to get accolades from the administrators here, and Rentsch will not delete my personal information despite of a friendly request to do so. He's also suggested taking legal action against me and the people here at NAFPS, and that some day i may "find out that all this isn't a game". If Kiesha was a responsible person with extraordinary abilities, she would know not to leave the maintenance of her official website in the hands of such a man.
There are other forums out of the tribe of many colors control that also are discussing this topic. The Rick Ross forum has a well written post (by Cresecent, nice job) using info from the board here and other sources and putting a timeline onto some of her claims and how they've changed over time (i.e. The referencing of Alejandro Cirilo Perez to authenticate her 2012 claims, then when finding out that he actually denounces the 2012 theories changing the focus of authentication to Bernard Perona (aka. Drunvalo Melchizedek).
http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?12,95049,95049
Thanks, i was hoping for some comments there about the perspective NAFPS holds about the situation. Guess it's perhaps not necessary yet, though who knows what kinda things Crowther will try to get her followers to do in a year... start living in communities, move out from countries sensitive to sea water levels rising, idk. I think the videos of her recent talks are scary... this is dying, that is dying, the oceans are dead, fish are dead, polar bears are dead, insects are killing everything, people are dying, we only have two years to change ourselves, but start living in the heart and might i suggest *hint* you join my Tribe and use my Messages and Techniques of Living in the Sacred Heart and you will survive the Great Cleanse and everything will become beautiful when there are only nice people left on our planet *hint*... who knows what she might say in the coming 2 years.
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Great job! I think that explains it all very well, and why such a great wisdom-keeper wouldn't be promoting the industry.
Thanks Spandex. Her crystal promotion thing has been bothering me since she posted it.
Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals. I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.
You're welcome Sky.. and Thank You too!
I have crystals. I love them. But it's been a long time since I've purchased. I won't be purchasing them
again. Thanks for the education.. :)
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Edited
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/NotHappyjpg2.jpg)
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that don't look right to me. it almost looks like it could be taken that they are supporting her.
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Just for clarification, I know that there are people posting here who have mentioned that they posess/use/enjoy crystals. I'm not trying to be a jerk to any of you, I'm just trying to educate.
[/quote]
No offence taken at all :-)
I love crystals and have made a collection over the years. What you have said has given me food for thought. I don't need any more crystals and if I'm tempted to buy one again I will be thinking of the damage it does to the land.
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that don't look right to me. it almost looks like it could be taken that they are supporting her.
ok, maybe the wording needs change? Any suggestions?
edit;
I just altered the text to make it more obvious. thanx :-)
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Another "unofficial" page admin'd by a guy named Steven O' Riordan in support of Kiesha and ironically is being attacked by Veetkam Rensch (the tribe of many colors admin...control freak, depends on your point of view) as being illegal...interesting set of comments on it including a very edited discussion of her being a fraud.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821
Here we go...another follower has just spammed the wall on this one....every post is hit with the same comment.
"Vicky Barton THIS IS A FAKE PAGE THIS IS NOT KIESHAS OWN PAGE BUT SOMEONE IMPERSONATING HER. AND HAS BEEN REPORTED AND WILL BE TAKEN DOWN."
And here's Veetkam losing it on the links page. For some reason the whole thread of comments doesn't appear when I click on it, but these three comments from Veetkam do...
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Kiesha-Crowther-Little-Grandmother/166068650098821?v=wall#!/posted.php?id=166068650098821
"#
Veetkam Rentsch Artüras - because its FAKING ! thats reason enough - !! they use others names and Pictures - this does violate civil rights too !!!!
December 15 at 5:21pm ·
#
Veetkam Rentsch Artüras - it is clear visible, that you dont care oncivil- rights and dont care on Kieshas personality rights and on her saying that she dont want such pages - and the reason why it is created changes nothing on the Fact that it is a Fake- Site and a Site against Kieshas will - and against her - also in the Internet and specially on Facebook (they have responsibility) valid right !
December 16 at 12:51pm ·
#
Veetkam Rentsch
this gives nobody the right to violate her rights - never !!!!! and this changes never the fact that it is a Fake and against her rights and will -
You have the possibility to read all on her site and you can share her official tribes-page... - http://tribeofmanycolors.net/See More
December 16 at 12:58pm ·
I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown. This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....seems to be a lot of anger and hostility among Kiesha's followers.
It's tough to understand. Really is...and it's a little scary. If this is how they treat friends...for anyone just getting info from reading this thread. Veetkam Rensch is the administrator of Kiesha Crowther's facebook pages as well as the Tribeofmanycolors.net website. When you sign up for one of his pages you are subject to his judgment and rules.
Superdog
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I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown. This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....
It's tough to understand. Really is...and it's a little scary. If this is how they treat friends...lol
Superdog
That particular poster is showing the zealous fundamentalism of a new convert.
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Happily, the "enemies" get safely ignored since no one wants to hear what they has to say. :p The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted... you get the picture.
Most of the tribers seem to think that "good intentions" justify the lies and the sacrilege, it is not THEIR spirituality anyway and the indians have to change too now that the big changes are coming, like someone pointed out to me. Also, most of them say that it is her truth (I guess you CAN actually decide at your 30s that you have actually born as native american and invent a convenient prophecy for yourself and declare yourself as a shaman and it is a truth! I have to give it a thought, might not be too late for me either, I am only 32!) and one tried to tell me that Kiesha has never said that she was made shaman over the tribes, but gets her orders from some even better _spiritual_ council... And then I was of course told to live in my heart and allow the good life to come to me...
For all that are interested: my life got immensively better when I dropped out of the tribe, I found some honest people who are still in touch with the earth and not flying higher than you get with magic mushrooms (never tried tho, so might be wrong with that) and are actually trying to make a difference to make the world bit more transparent and honest and yes, caring too. Truth might not be always the most comfortable direction to take at first, but when you get the hang of it, it is the best one. :)
And I made myself a promise, after seeing the crystal video, that if I ever buy crystals again, I'll buy from secondhand store... but I am actually more into natural beach stones nowadays anyway. :)
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The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted...
gee.. you mean... like how SHE distorts ?
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
Outstanding. ;D
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Can anyone figure out how we can get videos posted here http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/ (http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/)
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Can anyone figure out how we can get videos posted here http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/ (http://greenbd.info/Little+Grandmother/)
I'm not seeing a way to register in order to post vids. Is it a site for paying advertisers?
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I have no idea if it's a pay site or not. I couldnt find any way to post, just wanted to make sure I wasnt spacing something obvious.
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uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)
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uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)
We kinda figured that one was coming sooner or later >:( >:( >:(
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I'm on my iPod, one of veetkams sites has cooties. My computer is infected.
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Kiesha Crowther stated that she "was called to be the shaman of the Sioux and Salash tribes" which the The Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes have refuted. There is also concern over her also charging for faking ceremonies, dressing up as a native person and yet saying she does not teach native ways (aka 'plastic shaman'). Oh, and not giving, seemingly, any of the money she is making back to the tribes but just setting up some kind of big business. The lying parts seem more serious, especially where claiming Native Authority is concerned. Other stuff she says is just bizzare or silly, etc. And she likes to cry alot to get people to try and believe her.
Is there a particular post or can one be made that would summarize all of the concerns about Kiesha Crowther.
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I'm beginning to strongly agree with the cult mentality being shown. This particular page is HONOR of Kiesha and Veetkam and this other lady are attacking it....
It's tough to understand. Really is...and it's a little scary. If this is how they treat friends...lol
Superdog
That particular poster is showing the zealous fundamentalism of a new convert.
New? Vicky has actually been there from the start, she lost her "faith" for a moment, but now she is back in the flag business and all... I am sad that nice people like her get so caught into this that they start to fight her fights for her...
The "friends" who want to have their own fanpage get brutal attack tho, since the queen bee herself has said that she doesn't allow those sites with her or her tribes name that aren't under her control. So that her message don't get distorted...
gee.. you mean... like how SHE distorts ?
Well she distorts probably even worse, but doesn't want to have her distorted message to get distorted anyway (it might actually start to sound NORMAL, omg). :)
uh oh http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net (http://whois.domaintools.com/white-buffalo-calf-woman.net)
Herr Veetkam... what a surprise...
Is there a particular post or can one be made that would summarize all of the concerns about Kiesha Crowther for new people on the side who want to get the low down in a few pages. Perhaps there are a couple of keys posts?
It might be good to gather all the biggest concerns and facts in one place somehow. The Rick Ross forum post was quite a good in summarizing some of the concerns and issues. And the topic about the official statement from salish tribes etc was awesome as well. There is 35 pages of story here now tho and the facts and concerns get lost and not so many who already think the opposite view as negative thing are ready to read 35 pages when even one is overwhelming to many of them. :)
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...and of course the more "official" page...I say more because there's no evidence Crowther disseminates anything through this page and all content is controlled by her "followers/employees" i.e. Veetkam. This page has hit Facebook's friend limit and therefore new members get denied. It's also a very controlled atmosphere run by the admins with a strict adherence to only discussing things that elevate Crowther's status regardless if they're true or not.
http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther
The more "official" tribe of many colors facebook page...more of the same controlled atmosphere.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500#!/pages/Tribe-of-Many-Colors/120728341290500?sk=wall
Superdog
Actually the Kiesha Crowther page here at least used to be her personal account at start. Not sure how much of it it is now, it is full of "follower" posts mostly, altho she posts status updates there occasionally, or someone does it for her now, who knows...
And that tribe of many colors page that opens from the link isn't the "official" fb page, can get in the official page now only if you request to join first, so the link kind of directs you on this "collection" page. To avoid people like us being there, I guess. :p (I kicked myself out long time ago because of the admin...)
Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...
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(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/NotourLGjpg.jpg)
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critique please - http://www.vimeo.com/18090033
(http://www.vimeo.com/18090033)
excellent sky 8)
I think you put forward both the ecological and environmental issues, but also issues that newagers would relate to (hopefully) re the integrity of the earth etc.
I was unaware of these issues so your video was an education for me.
One thing about the photos you showed that concerned me is that many of the mines seem to depict child labourers. I wonder if this is one more thing to put in a subtitle in the video? Something like "some crystal mines use child labourers to dig for quartz - little children deprived of education, working in dangerous conditions".
Also I understand that quartz mining can be dangerous for the workers if quartz is inhaled in power form and is in the same hazardous category as asbestos and for this reason people aged under 18 are not permitted to work in any position where they encounter quartz in powdered form (which would I think include quartz mining).
an example
Detrimental Occupations
In addition to the 17 HOs, the WHA establishes nine detrimental occupations that the N.C. Commissioner of Labor has declared to be detrimental to the health and well-being of all youths under the age of 18. These detrimental occupations apply to most employers in North Carolina. The only employers exempt from these detrimental occupations are governmental, agricultural, and domestic employers. All other employers operating in North Carolina are subject to these detrimental occupations regardless of federal or state coverage. No youth under 18 years of age may be employed by an employer in the following nine detrimental occupations:
(2) Any processes where quartz or any other form of silicon dioxide or an asbestos silicate is present in powdered form;
For information on asbestos, go to http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/.
source:
http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/joint_state_fed.htm
This could seem to be confirmed by this article on Silicosis, a serious lung disease caused by inhalation of silica dust generated in various industries including gem polishing and quartz mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis
So you may wish to add another title saying something like "unregulated quartz mines expose miners and gem polishers to the potential fatal lung disease Silicosis via inhalation of silica dust".
Interesting bit of history about how the Nazis use prisoners from death camps as slave labour to mine quartz
http://www.shoaheducation.com/camps/melk.html
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This is a bit off topic, but I am making the page in my blog now and if anyone wants to leave any specific comment about exploitation or cults or 2012 hoax or anything, pm them to me, otherwise I just use links I have found earlier that explain how harmful certain things are and why and will post the videos and all about Kiesha as well.
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Hi, I've been lurking here for a while, and following this thread with great interest.
Been thinking about the phrase that keeps being repeated about critics of KC - "not being in the heart". It's turning into a nice nifty mantra for psychological control. If you're not "in the heart" you're not one of us, you're bad, unenlightened, an outsider. I think a similar phrase was used in the "cult" video we've probably all seen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxJyfqeaKU8
It reminds me of the phrase used by James Arthur Ray in his workshops and retreats - "you're not playing full-on" - to make people feel bad for dropping out of any activity that was getting uncomfortable for them, to exert psychological pressure to push themselves to the limits. People would say this to themselves when they felt themselves flagging. And we all know what happened next...
Seems every dodgy organisation needs a nice little soundbite such as this.
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Thanx luna, that's an excellent video.
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excellent sky 8)
I think you put forward both the ecological and environmental issues, but also issues that newagers would relate to (hopefully) re the integrity of the earth etc.
I was unaware of these issues so your video was an education for me.
One thing about the photos you showed that concerned me is that many of the mines seem to depict child labourers. I wonder if this is one more thing to put in a subtitle in the video? Something like "some crystal mines use child labourers to dig for quartz - little children deprived of education, working in dangerous conditions".
Child labor is used extensively in mines in third world countries. I'll make a new video after the holidays specifically focusing on this. One thing to keep in mind is that several of the pictures showing shiny happy children, these pictures were taken at US mines where you can pay a fee to subject yourself and your children to hazardous conditions.
Also I understand that quartz mining can be dangerous for the workers if quartz is inhaled in power form and is in the same hazardous category as asbestos and for this reason people aged under 18 are not permitted to work in any position where they encounter quartz in powdered form (which would I think include quartz mining).
an example
Detrimental Occupations
In addition to the 17 HOs, the WHA establishes nine detrimental occupations that the N.C. Commissioner of Labor has declared to be detrimental to the health and well-being of all youths under the age of 18. These detrimental occupations apply to most employers in North Carolina. The only employers exempt from these detrimental occupations are governmental, agricultural, and domestic employers. All other employers operating in North Carolina are subject to these detrimental occupations regardless of federal or state coverage. No youth under 18 years of age may be employed by an employer in the following nine detrimental occupations:
(2) Any processes where quartz or any other form of silicon dioxide or an asbestos silicate is present in powdered form;
For information on asbestos, go to http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/asbestos/.
source:
http://www.nclabor.com/wh/fact%20sheets/joint_state_fed.htm
This could seem to be confirmed by this article on Silicosis, a serious lung disease caused by inhalation of silica dust generated in various industries including gem polishing and quartz mining.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicosis
So you may wish to add another title saying something like "unregulated quartz mines expose miners and gem polishers to the potential fatal lung disease Silicosis via inhalation of silica dust".
Interesting bit of history about how the Nazis use prisoners from death camps as slave labour to mine quartz
http://www.shoaheducation.com/camps/melk.html
I'll include this as well. There are more than a handful of detrimental health hazards. I'll get as many together as I can.
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Cutesy propaganda tailored to children:
Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related
Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 2 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQLst76JrE
" DO doubt the mind........." "......The time of prophecy has come, only it's not the dark doom and gloom of the 'Dark Force'! It's the 'Light Message'! the 'Right Message' that's come!......."
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Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...
you heard correctly http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx)
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I wonder how much it will cost.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1OeX9nnQo
An unedited Zurich video. No fancy editing..pictures etc etc. Just her talking and taking breaks for a German interpreter. It's 40 minutes long and I haven't been able to watch all of it...but here's some gems.
-a long time ago some special beings were born on this earth...let's take Jesus as an example...
-Jesus remembered that he was the great I am....he remembered he was the son of God...just as we are...
-Instead of finding the great I am, people followed Jesus to learn what he learned....THIS is the beginning of manmade religion.
-All religion is manmade...
There's much more. The jist of the beginning is that we're all "star people"/aliens energy and we made the choice to experience "earth life" and that's why we're here. She's here to remind us of that.....
There is little bits of truth mixed in with some terrible untruths. For anyone that's ever bothered to study Abrahamic religions there are 3 main branches. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Judaism is much older than Christianity and is definitely a religion so I don't know how she skipped over the entire Jewish religion and jumped ahead to Christianity as being the first manmade religion. She also calls Buddhism a religion (I'd call it more of a philosophy..but there are many different schools of thought on it) and Buddhism's roots are also much older than Christianity...so once again she's skipped over that to jump to Christianity as being the first manmade religion. The significance of Judaism to world history is it marked a change in how people saw religion. Older philosophies/religions/shamanic practices (depends on the particular subject) tended to call life a version of suffering and people must adhere to the philosophy in order to gain acceptance into the afterlife in some way or another. Judaism preached that human beings are born in the image of God and a divine afterlife was something you were born with...in other words instead of striving for divinity through a life of suffering...your born with a divinity that is yours to lose. It's much deeper than that and I apologize for summing up these religions in such simple terms, but the outlandish claim that Christianity marks the beginning of manmade religion in world history is sooooooo far off the mark.
Superdog
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Oh and heard the rumor that the first book from LG is coming next year...
you heard correctly http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx (http://littlegrandmother.net/BOOK.aspx)
That's truly a waste of trees.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc1OeX9nnQo
-a long time ago some special beings were born on this earth...let's take Jesus as an example...
-Jesus remembered that he was the great I am....he remembered he was the son of God...just as we are...
-Instead of finding the great I am, people followed Jesus to learn what he learned....THIS is the beginning of manmade religion.
-All religion is manmade...
There is little bits of truth mixed in with some terrible untruths. For anyone that's ever bothered to study Abrahamic religions there are 3 main branches. Judaism, Christianity and Islam. Judaism is much older than Christianity and is definitely a religion so I don't know how she skipped over the entire Jewish religion and jumped ahead to Christianity as being the first manmade religion. She also calls Buddhism a religion (I'd call it more of a philosophy..but there are many different schools of thought on it) and Buddhism's roots are also much older than Christianity...so once again she's skipped over that to jump to Christianity as being the first manmade religion. The significance of Judaism to world history is it marked a change in how people saw religion. Older philosophies/religions/shamanic practices (depends on the particular subject) tended to call life a version of suffering and people must adhere to the philosophy in order to gain acceptance into the afterlife in some way or another. Judaism preached that human beings are born in the image of God and a divine afterlife was something you were born with...in other words instead of striving for divinity through a life of suffering...your born with a divinity that is yours to lose. It's much deeper than that and I apologize for summing up these religions in such simple terms, but the outlandish claim that Christianity marks the beginning of manmade religion in world history is sooooooo far off the mark.
Superdog
Well, maybe the importance of christianity comes from she trying to create something similar, only that Jesus is female this time. She is the great I am and the daughter of God ofc and people follow her and of course, she must pretend like she didn't like it even tho she includes all these little hints to make human subconscious to link the similarities and leave out the rest. Her "religion" or "spirituality" is as man made as the rest of them. Every belief on earth is manmade, some more closer to nature and some far away from it. "For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks." (Terry Pratchett) Which would be ofc lot easier system.
It is funny to me how person who is kind of "against" man made religion talks about God so much.
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If I recall correctly, in one of the video's I tried to watch, she was explaining how she was called on the phone,
but before that she was raised in a Christian household, and as she went on about "religion" she was referring
to Christianity and her unsatisfactory experience with it. To me, in the bit I saw, it was very clear she had not
looked or learned anything of the other religions of the world and was basing her entire statement of religion from
her only experience of it from Christianity.
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Ok, Kiesha's assistants been active on her fb page
Kiesha’s mother’s family has always and still does live on the reservation although Kiesha herself was not raised on the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Even though Kiesha did not grow up among tribal traditions, and had grown up away from...... the tribe, she was nevertheless made a shaman and lead threw the initiations by a Sioux named Falling Feathers at age 30. Kiesha has taken part in Inipi and other sacred ceremony under Brave heart and other Elders from other Native Tribes. Kiesha is NOT the shaman for the Sioux or Salish people and wants to make this very clear. Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all, so people of negative and spiteful intentions have a free for all with them. There are more important things in life than having to *prove one’s self* However, (and this is important), Kiesha was told by these elders that her “tribe” was to be the “Tribe of Many Colors”. The elders who Kiesha works with are fully aware that she was not taught the indigenous ways… She was never intended to lead traditional tribal ceremony, or to present herself as a representative of any particular tribe and its indigenous ways. To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions. Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption—but Kiesha has never presented or described herself as a Sioux shaman. She was initiated into shamanism in the Native American tradition but does not use this language because it implies that she is working within a traditional context. She has been taught to pray and lead ceremony in certain ways, and many of these are in fact traditional ways (by different cultures and peoples, as she is a shaman for the Tribe of many colors and works with the Hawaiian Kahunas, the Waitiha Elders, and the Sami people of the North and so on. But she does not pretend to know or to follow any specific tradition to a T. That is not her role and purpose. Primary responsibility is to be shaman for the Tribe of Many Colors—which includes non-indigenous people of all backgrounds. If Keisha’s words have in any way alluded to being a shaman for a specific tribe she wishes to apologies and give her deepest respect for all traditional peoples and their ways. Little Grandmothers responsibility is to teach love and light and to teach the children of Mother Earth to remember who they are, the power of the heart and compation and she knows that as long as there is love and kindness being taught in the world there will always be those trying to tear it down and try to prove her wrong, belittle her or use hurtful words to attack. Her responsibility is to teach love and light as a shaman of the tribe of many colors despite attacks of negativity.
Who Recognizes Her as Shaman?
Kiesha was initiated into shamanism by Falling Feathers and Grandmother Lota in addition; she has been recognized as shaman of the “Tribe of Many Colors” and gifted medicine from the elders of indigenous tribes and peoples including Three Bears, Sister Wolf, the Cherokee, and Cheyenne individuals, (not the entire Nation of specific tribes. As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. These gifts began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30 and have been coming ever since.
Kiesha’s elders are not from just one tribe—She is being guided by the elders who comprise of indigenous people’s all over the planet, as well as receiving direct teaching from spirit guides and indigenous elders past of several different peoples from different traditions. Whether this seems incredible and unbelievable to some, this is the case—If some people think that matters of utmost sacredness should conform to our cultural expectations and prerogatives, that Kiesha should be teaching tribal ways and if she is not then she cannot be a legitimate shaman and wisdom keeper--no one will be able to convince them otherwise. ? She did not decide to become a shaman one day but was called to be and has gone through the initiations necessary. She does Not represent the Sioux or Salish tribal people or their ways, she does not teach tribal ways, she has stated time and time again she is not a leader, not a guru, not one who is higher than another but her mission in life is to teach the importance of love and light and remembering every individuals great potential and connection to Great Spirit. These attacks by people trying to prove that she does not represent certain tribes is a waste of time, if you were to ever listen to what Little Grandmother speaks about you would know this. Not only does she teach that she does not represent any one tribe, nor teaches Native American ways but that her purpose is to gather indigenous and non indigenous peoples together to start living in love, from the heart with compassion of others and their beliefs. Those who are attacking her are stating the same thing she herself is teaching; she does not represent any tribe or any one specific way of being. Her family to this day remains on the reservations and she will NOT be giving her families names to those with such malice in their hearts. Any human being would do the same thing to protect their loved ones. Whether or not people know who Kiesha is on the Flathead reservation makes no difference, in fact she was not raised on the reservation and would not expect them to know her in the first place. Kiesha was made shaman under the guidance of a Native American named Falling Feathers but she does not represent any Native American tribe nor intends to.
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"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."
Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE? :D :D
Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!
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i'm just getting mad.. and sick. am willing to help post info on each of these claims, and/or help get verified
statements from the people she mentions. the lamas in tibet no doubt.. and the zulu.. can't forget them..
i'm just sickened.
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also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?
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"Kiesha is NOT the shaman for the Sioux or Salish people and wants to make this very clear."
Then why did she say that in the first place?
Is she ftupid?
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"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."
Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE? :D :D
Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!
Sami grandmother? Umm... the sami people's shamans or "witches" are almost always male... And yes, if she goes there... at least in Finland sami people are furiously defending their culture, there wont be much left if the hell breaks out.
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also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?
It is not only common, it is expected.
I´ll provide any statement necessary from the Samis whenever they are called for - but as always, she is not giving any clue on which Samis. What "band"? The Samis in Sweden, Norway or Finland? The coastal Samis, the mountain Samis or the forest Samis?
What Sami villages? Could we please have some details!
SAGA: ;D That´s exactly what I was pointing out in another post I made. She does NOT, I repeat, she DOES NOT want to mess with the Samis!!!
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"Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all,"
Then disclose it to those we trust who actually have the authority to speak on such matters for Native Americans in the area she claims she comes from.
Why hasn't anyone heard of her?
Without proof to the contrary this is all bluffery and has to be assumed as fake as her other fake statements.
The burden of proof lies with the claimant.
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also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?
It is not only common, it is expected.
I´ll provide any statement necessary from the Samis if it´s necessary - but as always, she is not giving any clue on which Samis. What "band"? The Samis in Sweden, Norway or Finland? The coastal Samis, the mountain Samis or the forest Samis?
What Sami villages? Could we please have some details!
SAGA: ;D That´s exactly what I was pointing out in another post I made. She does NOT, I repeat, she DOES NOT want to mess with the Samis!!!
please, let her try....
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Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.
I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.
The more she has to change and rewrite it the better.
I'm just not willing to let her walk away with that.
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Freyja... It is not just the sami people she shouldn't mess with, it is the finnish people as well. Most of us don't buy bullshit in any form and when we have the scent of it... well, we simply tell the truth, no matter what it takes and we tell it straight... So I made some points in those posts in some sites in fb. Also, have a page of exploiting and cults in my blog and I am ready to add any further proof about Kiesha there as well, have the current vids and texts linked there too.
(Ofc, like I have said to everyone, IF Kiesha someday decides to give proof that is actually worth something that she is what she claims to be, I will be first to apologize. I don't see that day coming.)
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"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."
Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE? :D :D
Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!
What the... "grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi"...
http://www.esowatch.com/en/index.php?title=Hopi_and_Pseudo_Hopi_Prophecies
John Kimney, a white man who calls himself Eesawu, was formally asked by the Hopi Nation to quit posing as a keeper of Hopi prophecy. The tribal preservation office was especially angered by Kimney making money off his claims about prophecy. Kimney at first agreed to stop, then reneged on his promise.
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2455.0
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Suggestions for a 'Kiesha Crowther - Little Grandmother FAQ'
The idea is to post questions you think are important to go into a FAQ, and if possible, along with a succinct and objective answer.
These can then be edited into a main Q&A post.
We can shuffle it around to work as well as it can in an orderly way as we go along.
Here is a list of questions I know I would want an answer to if I had only just watched a video and arrived here by googling her name.
Sorry it's just a list of questions right now, without answers.
__________
Q: Who is Kiesha Crowther?
Q: How can we be sure this is true?
Q: Why is she called 'Little Grandmother'?
Q: Where is her proof?
Q: Who do her followers say she is?
Q: Is there any reason to believe this is true?
Q: Where is Kiesha Crowther from?
A: "The daughter of a white father and a Sioux/Salish mother, she grew up in a small farming community in Southern Colorado."
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/kiesha/kiesha-crowther.html
"Kiesha’s mother’s family has always and still does live on the reservation although Kiesha herself was not raised on the Flathead Reservation in Montana............ Her Family does live on the reservation but their names will NOT be disclosed to all, so people of negative and spiteful intentions have a free for all with them."
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2871.525
« Reply #536 on: December 23, 2010, 09:37:16 pm »
information source:
http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther
(not a public profile)
Q: What do Native Americans say about her?
Q: Who are the Elders she speaks of as her teachers?
Q: Are they genuine Elders?
Q: How can we be sure?
Q: What is The Tribe of Many Colours?
Q: What is the origin/origins of this belief?
Q: Is there any truth to this at all?
Q: What are the main points of her message (summary)?
Q: What does she say her agenda is?
Q: What do others say her agenda is?
Q: What has she prophesised?
Q: Are her prophecies unique?
Q: Is there any reason to believe these?
Q: Is she selling anything?
Q: What is she selling?
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Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.
I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.
I will bring it up with my Sami friends after all the holidays are over and done with. Some of them are pretty influential.
Please make sure you stay far away from the detonationplace when the shit hits the Sami-fan everyone....
Oh, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.
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Cutesy propaganda tailored to children:
Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related
Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 2 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prQLst76JrE
" DO doubt the mind........." "......The time of prophecy has come, only it's not the dark doom and gloom of the 'Dark Force'! It's the 'Light Message'! the 'Right Message' that's come!......."
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My actual reply with the quotes, got lost....well.....next time i make a reply i will do so from Word....so i can keep it saved and not lose it. ARRRGH! :-\
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darn! I hate that. I was wondering too, lol.
I use notepad usually, that little jumpy reply box drives me nuts!
I believe the lady who made these is well intentioned and wishing to only help others, but as much as I like her as a person, I strongly disagree with this message of no-mind, and think the way this is catered to kids (while meaning well) is pretty dangerous. I find it disturbing.
(Transcripts are available beneath the videos if you prefer that format.)
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Yeah Atom I'm with you on that - those videos are very disturbing, actually a bit frightening to me, but then i have X-Ray eyes, after my red alert flag is raised. Wish I had NOT lost the message, because it was a lengthy comment on how most of KC-LG's followers, will NOT engage any discernment even in the face of boldface lies, with exploitation of NDN's, the real deal about quartz crystal mining practices, etc etc. Yet there are some, although few, who like me had noticed things and had begun questioning them, at the same time that all this went public. Those folks have been set free and now are informed about not only KC but the too numerous various Nuage frauds. So we have reached some and this is all we can do. Great work everybody! Thank-You ALL.
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Knowing Gets in the Way -or- Singing Little Grandmother's Song 1 of 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_Bt31t8_X4&feature=related
"..... If I had to sum up my whole message in one sentence, it would include go into heart, abide there - and observe life from there. Everything else pretty much takes care of itself. So what if it sounds crazy?Start watching that - when yousee yourself going that way - realize that you’re in the mind. It’s mind that this seems crazy to - but mind thinks the world, as it is, is just fine.Mind helped make it that way. So do doubt the mind. Quarantine the damn thing!Stop your listening to mind. Let it yap.Just don’t listen. Sacred ceremonies have now been done, around the world, among all the Wisdom Keepers and their native peoples, ushering in the new age.The Ancestors have returned. They’re here with us, now. We’re not alone, my friends. What’s happening here is so pivotal. Many other galaxies have sent representatives here - to watch the outcome of this play. My big message to you here is go listen to Keisha Crowther, to Little Grandmother, and let your heart be lightened and lifted in your breast, as you hear the many wonderful offerings she brings to this age - to the world - along with the rest of her clan -th e Wisdom Keepers. The Natives around the world are finally speaking out. The time of prophecy has come. Only it’s not the dark doom and gloom of the dark force. It’s the Light message, the right message, that’s come....."
Several things.....
Yes we need to engage our hearts, in other words use love in our daily lives, and listen to our hearts, our intuition etc, but it isn't true that the mind is the cause of all the worlds woes. The real solution is to keep your head while allowing your heart to grow. "Don't lose your mind/head". The heart is also as much a problem when it comes to the worlds woes. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of love.
Don't quarantine the mind, just feed it with the right food for it to grow into a useful instrument, and learn to quieten the mind 'chatter'. The mind is good, the heart is good. Creator gave us both and to quarantine either is disrespectful.
Every age is a new age, wether this one will be a good one is down to wether we can engage all of our faculties in a balanced and harmonious way so that we can see what truth there is.
This idea that the Ancestors have returned doesn't make alot of sense to me, in the way it is being promoted. On the one hand we are guided to believe the Ancestors are Star-beings, and on the other hand it's implied that WE are the ones we have been waiting for. Really, if anyone has a belief in reincarnation, or has memory of other lives, this is just an overly lofty representation of a non-Earth-centric understanding of the journey of the spirit in this Universe, or as physicists are saying now, the Multiverse. The way it is promoted is designed to play to the ego and it does, or else Kiesha would absolutely refuse to be put on a throne infront of her followers. If any of us are 'Ancestors returned' or reincarnated, we certainly wouldn't be making a big thing about it , all of us here being equally special. It's irrelevant! If we are ancestors then there are an awful lot of ancestors roaming about not worrying about ascension. Think about it lol. Maybe the ones who are asleep are the ones who think everyone else needs to wake up and 'see the light'.! You want to save your skins and ascend? One minute you are an ancient spirit incarnated here to help save the world, and the next you actually have to ascend or something? You don't actually need a **** thing to evolve as a being except to go about showing love and compassion where you are able, and speaking out about injustice would help a bit too. The WHOLE point is to learn about love, which doesn't mean casting aside love for a very important organ called your brain! DOH.
Does it matter if you are from a different planet or if people are flying about above us, or even if we meet them in visions? Not really. Don't be so impressed! What is all this actually achieving in your life except a 'feel good' factor?
None of this is news and is in no way a reason to put your faith in Kiesha.
Yes of course the world is changing, it is always changing. All the Earth change stuff we allready know! Kiesha is telling us NOTHING new. We all know we need to get our act together, and also that the situation is coming to a sort of climax/change. This is the natural cycle of civilisations when they become too unwieldy. Again, Kiesha is saying NOTHING new. All of it is a compileation of information she has learned and been told, which everyone who has been interested in this stuff also knows about from research.
Nothing she has done or said proves she is someone worth following for any reason, yet her followers are treating her like their guru and literally setting her up on thrones replete with red carpets and dancers!
Is anyone getting the picture yet!
If you are so special, and you are, why do you need Kiesha to be your Shaman-Queen-Goddess/Deluxe-Ancestor-Guru.
You simply aren't using your brains at all are you?
- with love :-)
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What I'm trying to say is that every single living and non-living thing (if you believe there is anything not alive in it's own way) is just as important in the universe as Ancestors, and there isn't one single Ancestor worth their salt who would mind being called out on bs if they were acting like Kiesha because to do otherwise would be the opposite of love, which isn't about hiding your head in the sand.
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Well, I would like to take each People mentioned in her statement and get verifiable proof that her claim is false.
I don't want to just sit here talking about it. So.. whoever knows whoever.. and however you can get a statement.. heck,
get one from each of the Sami's.. let them come pounding at her door.. so she can change her statement again.
I will bring it up with my Sami friends after all the holidays are over and done with. Some of them are pretty influential.
Please make sure you stay far away from the detonationplace when the shit hits the Sami-fan everyone....
Yeh, well, I just think they and everyone on her "list" should be informed of their new shame-on.
Hey, it may make the hardcore just that more ridiculous in their fervor.. but at least the People
have been informed and can make a statement if they want.
h, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.
That sounds great! Will it be webcast? I'd be happy to help spread the word.. :)
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Kiesha, people who follow you are saying you are White Buffalo Calf Woman returned! Maybe you could post here and tell us how to survive the winter with no food money shelter or possessions, because there are alot of people like that about who can't afford to go to your workshops and meet you in person.
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also, i thought it was fairly common and not offensive for ndn's to name their families?
It is not only common, it is expected.
obviously she doesn't realize that even without naming her family, if she has
family there, someone would know who her family is.
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yes, she's very sparing with any info about herself or her history at all, we know even less than we know of Jesus!
Did she ever have a career before this venture? what was she doing between being born and having her calling? She's a bit like Melchizedek, who came from nowhere!
C'mon Kiesha, tell us a bit about yourself other than your visits to nature and involvement with owls.
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I have new parable about how much LOVE actually justifies. (it's not too christmassy, but i didn't sleep well)
So, you love your mother. You steal her purse... use all her money, make credit on all her credit cards, throw away her identification papers and shit in the purse. Then you get the bag back to your mom and say to her that it is better than new and she should thank you. But hey, it is ok, you did it from love and you encourage everyone to do that for their moms as well, since it is awesome.
Edit: the NEW story about who she is, is now here: http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html
And I'll be gone to "celebrate" my xmas now, not too much to celebrate tho this year...
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h, by the way, if things work out the way we plan there will be an annual indigenous filmfestival in Sweden soon. And the truths WILL be told - all of them.
That sounds great! Will it be webcast? I'd be happy to help spread the word.. :)
Well, it all started with a filmdirector getting in contact with me while making a documentary about the plight of North American Indians, she is half Ojibway and wanted to interview me and include some footage from my film, Spirits for sale. She absolutely HATES the exploitation and the frauds. So after some discussions we decided to try to get an annual filmfestival going including guests from different indigenous peoples presenting their cultures. It will also be a strong focus on informing about frauds and charlatans. Our goal is to start up in Stockholm, our capital, and then be able to move it round to different places in Sweden.
Right now we´re working with the Sami organisations, also getting Amnesty involved. Next step is finding sponsors. Hard work and many applications going out but right now it´s looking good. (Credit goes to my film-friend!) So whenever it´s time I will let all of you know!
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Yes we need to engage our hearts, in other words use love in our daily lives, and listen to our hearts, our intuition etc, but it isn't true that the mind is the cause of all the worlds woes. The real solution is to keep your head while allowing your heart to grow. "Don't lose your mind/head". The heart is also as much a problem when it comes to the worlds woes. Many atrocities have been committed in the name of love.
Atrocities are also caused by aggression, hate, predudice, greed, vengefulness, pettyness, spite, boredom, jealousy, etc. These are not rational thoughts, a product of "mind", they're emotions - powerful emotions, a reflection of our animal origins. It's through the application of mind that these emotions can be tempered, we can choose to defuse them and not act on them. It's what sets us apart from animals - the ability to think and to choose. Even the decision to act "with love" is a decision that is made by the thinking mind.
In many long-term entrenched conflicts (eg. Northern Ireland, South Africa), resolution has only been achieved by putting these emotions aside, putting in hours and hours on gruelling negotiations, with all sides having to make compromises and learning to live with that. All this requires a lot of hard thinking.
Also, being ethical, having moral values, requires are person to have compassion, which means stepping into someone else's shoes, seeing the situation from their point of view, viewing your own actions from outside yourself. Quite a bit of thought involved in that.
If everyone behaved rationally 100% of the time, there probably wouldn't be any wars. What would be the point? A waste of energy, when you could just talk things over instead...
Being 100% rational would also make human culture a very sterile and lifeless thing, and would not be a society I would want to live in. So yes we need both...
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"As well as Grandfather Kimmey of the Hopi, the Sami grandmother, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori...."
Oooh, she found the Samis. Even THE Sami grandmother. Huh??? Like...there is only ONE? :D :D
Don´t go there, Kiesha, I know many Samis - there will be signed statements debunking any lies!
well, the bit about the "lamas of nepal and tibet" is demonstrably false.
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Here we go...more people starting to believe this crazy idea that she's White Buffalo Calf Woman "returned". A youtube user "Whitebuffaloswoman2012" beginning to leave comments on LG videos....just another case of "the little grandmother" facade causing people...who honestly just don't know any better...believing things above and beyond simply because of her packaging as a "Native American shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" and a product of a fictional prophecy about a "fair haired girl" coming through "Native American tradition" (completely broad, oversimplistic term...there's really no such thing) to save us all.
http://www.youtube.com/user/WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012
WHITEBUFFALOSWMN2012 Kiesha Crowther is our blessed white buffalo woman. She is returned to you and me to save our earth. We must not hate over skin colors. She is sioux salish and she is beyond the indian skin color. White buffalo wants us to all love each other. We are all coming back as white buffalos.
I'm sure Lakota people feel rrreeeallly "honored" by her return in the form of a white lady selling herself as one of them...(sic) ::)
Superdog
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"We are all coming back as white buffalos."
“Danger, Will Robinson! DANGER!”
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Here's one of Eddie Vibes videos...it describes her story more in detail in the first couple of minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM
One of the things that struck me....the "recognition" at 8 years old that she talks about happened at a pow-wow of all places. She was prayed for by either some members of the community or maybe family members (she never distinguishes...only say "Lakota elders" brought her forth and gave her a blessing....but anyone who attends pow-wows regularly has a better idea what that really means and it's not as romantic as she makes it). She admits that she didn't understand any of it, yet she uses that story as a source of legitimacy that she was "recognized" at that age.
Then follows up with the story about the "phone call" from THE "indigenous peoples" (I'm assuming all of them?? lol) and her "calling" to be initiated as a shameon.
For people who don't regularly attend pow-wows....it's not uncommon to give some sort of recognition to relatives when they visit the community from far away. It's not a form of "shaman recognition". It's being a good host and treating outsiders in a good way. She admits herself that they spoke Lakota and she didn't understand any of it...so if she didn't understand any of it...how did it elevate into a status of "recognition by indigenous elders"? Anyone reading can probably connect the dots...she's romanticizing someone saying a prayer for her at a pow-wow (not a ceremony....there's a HUGE difference between a powwow and a ceremony). So, that leaves two distinct possibilities....either she's flat out lying (omission of all the facts is a form of lying as well) or she's completely misinterpreting people at a pow-wow being nice to her as some form of global "indigenous recognition". Neither of which authenticates her legitimacy, but definitely works against the story about being made a "shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" (LG's words posted on her bios and reiterated verbatim in her videos and interviews as part of her "official" information).
Superdog
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good grief! The woman is arrogant beyond belief. First, shaman over the people and not the savior.
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:( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read this without knowing any truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully mislead. It is so disheartening to me that people would spend their time trying to damage the names of those who are working so hard in the world to simply spread the message of love, but I also know as long as there is good, love and light in the world there will always be the opposing dark and negative. I ask the readers to listen with their own hearts to know what is true for themselves as I always have asked and do not judge without educating yourself on what is really being said and done. I do not wish to bicker back and forth or have to defend myself for such ridiculous things such as (I am wearing a microphone so I must be a fraud) the list of outlandish remarks go on and on and I do not have the time or the wish to argue about such comments. Those who are being attacked on this site are some of the most beautiful beings on our planet such as the 13 indigenous grandmothers, the continental council of indigenous elders, Adam yellow bird who all spend their lives dedicated to raising consciousness, awareness and love vibration." http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html
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There is no such thing as bad publicity where her comments about us are concerned, lol. That's how I found this site in the first place. :-)
"....such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions..."
Absolutely priceless, lol. That's what the WHOLE thread has been doing!
I have to conclude she is demented, because only a demented person could interpret over 30 pages of questions as "not asking questions" lol.
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:( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. "
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-desinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html
um, Keisha, what has been written are questions you have so far failed to answer. Obviously you aren't going to "give an ounce of my energy" as you cannot satisfactorily answer them without showing the falsehoods in your claims.
What are you so afraid of honey? That the charade will come away and you will lose your source of income from the followers who lack critical thinking skills and do not question everything they are told as they are so desperate for some form of spirituality in their lives?
If you have nothing to hide, then respond as the truth is always the path to enlightenment. Isn't that part and parcel of what you "teach"?
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:( :( this is what she thinks of us
"I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings. But I see now that I need to address such actions because those who read this without knowing any truth of what I or the others being attacked on this site really are about or what it is we are doing in the world will be dreadfully mislead. -
She has been asked directly by many people before writing in ANY sites about ANY doubts. She chose not to give answers tho or give just mindless babble/more claims. The new claims probably will change many times to be as hard to understand as possible, but with as many claims of authority as possible.
I asked so many questions in fb in last couple of days that the admins will now delete my posts. :p
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I'm wondering what happened to samY and if he/she ever got the video's back up?
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I am in any case sick of her and sick and tired of her claims and the people fighting her fights for her and trying to reason against it in any way. I mean, they think that it is ok to support lies in addition to that "love" they are supporting. Almost none give a thought to ever changing claims, even tho they have proof under their eyes all the time. There is nothing pure in love that is based on lies, especially when the web of lies is ever getting bigger and bigger and there is no sign of regret or remorse and change. I have enough grief in my own family at the moment to give any energy to frustration that seeing people to walk that path with their eyes covered. It sickens me and it saddens me, hopefully they are as "aware" as they think they are and not following her and getting lost totally when the illusion breaks. I need a break from all this anyway. Not because they have win (I know that some people get lots of their power from thinking they have won and some of them are probably reading this forum), but because I can't watch it when someone is walking towards the possible doom and gloom. My heart breaks, I don't need this. I have witnessed death in last... I don't know how many years... in my life and I just can't watch people WILLINGLY walking down the plank and jump in the sea of lies, where is only tiny pieces of truth to help to keep the story together. No, I don't feel truth in Kiesha's words. I see tiny fractions of it distorted in ways that aren't helpful to anyone. And I am done with it. And for now, I think I am done of trying to do anything against it. What do I care, I will become like most of her followers and just watch away for a while, maybe say a prayer occasionally, hoping that I don't have to see when the sit hits the fan.
Will start with removing everything from my account that says "LG is so awesome and full of light", which means about half of my "friends" and couple of groups and then i'll go and create myself real life.
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I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.
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I'm wondering what happened to samY and if he/she ever got the video's back up?
Here they are:
http://www.youtube.com/user/ShamansAndMessiahs
SAMy goes by a different name here now.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc&feature=related
Starting @6:26 (minutes:seconds) of the above video:
Kiesha's own words:
"...but when I turned thirty something extraordinary happened and I got a phone-call. Grandmother Lota told me that day that many many people knew that I was coming. It didn't make any sense to me at all. She said that she understood as well as the other tribal members that I had been, being taught by the grandmothers past, and for the first time in my life I knew I wasn't nuts, and everything made sense in one phone call. They understood what I was being taught. They understood how I saw things. And she also spoke of a group of people that are here on the planet right now recieving these same lessons. And so all at once I was not alone, and all at once I wasn't crazy, and all at once I had a purpose. (@7:28) They called me to be Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes, and I have to say at first I was terrified. What a huge responsibility. What a huge commitment. And probably the scariest thing was, if I said yes I would have to admit to all of my wierdness. I would have to then share with everyone how I saw things......."
Excerpts from one of Kiesha's statements on her Facebook pagein purple:
located on this site here: « Reply #536 on: December 23, 2010, 09:37:16 pm »
information source: http://www.facebook.com/kiesha.crowther
...To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions...
She doesn't count presenting herself as the Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes as being a representative of their traditions in any way?
Some people who have linked to her videos on the web or written about her may have incorrectly stated this association or made this assumption....
That's because she said herself that she was called to be theShaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes
...If Keisha’s words have in any way alluded to being a shaman for a specific tribe she wishes to apologies and give her deepest respect for all traditional peoples and their ways.
This apology is meaningless, because no allusion was made, it is stated by herself in her videos for all to see. The videos are still on youtube promoting this lie.
Here's a question for you Kiesha, so don't say we don't ask questions!
Which is true?
A - "They called me to be Shaman for the Sioux and Salish tribes"
or
B -"...To this day, she has never presented herself as a representative of the Sioux or Salish traditions..."
But don't worry if you can't answer that, as your followers say: "You know what... it doesn't matter if she's a fraud, personally I don't think she is, but it's irrelevant, are you listening to the message? Does it speak to you? If not then turn away and let others be a part of this without it being contaminated by the likes of you. "
How loving!
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I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.
The beauty of technology is there are apps, extensions and other sites out there that can download and store her videos so even if they get pulled they will be archived.
For Firefox one extension is DownloadHelper (http://www.downloadhelper.net/) which will download to your computer. Another is ClipNabber (http://clipnabber.com/) which will download to the internet cloud.
Of course there is the low tech method of video recording your monitor using a camera while playing her videos.
It seems they haven't taken to heart the saying "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."
They can remove videos all they want and dispute the transcriptions of her videos posted here, but it will have no effect. It is like playing whack-a-mole if they are pulling videos in order to cover their tracks.
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From:
URGENT MESSAGE DECEMBER - December 24, 2010
http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEDECEMBER.aspx
"...But Kiesha does not presume or pretend to present traditional Native ways and wisdom to the public. What she is speaking of goes beyond indigenous prophecies and wisdom,..."
Wow, I bet Indigenous Native Americans everywhere will be in awe that what she says is 'beyond' their ancient traditions and wisdom! How pompous can you get!
"...There will always be individuals who question, who judge, who think that Kiesha is another white “imposter” appropriating Native ways for profit..."
Always? And why is that? Could it be that it's because that is exactly what she is doing?
Questioning is now wrong? Kiesha has accused us of NOT asking questions!
So we are damned if we do and damned if we dont?
Being judging is wrong? Then what is this in the next sentence?:
"Unfortunately our culture has too much of this, and it can be hard to separate the wheat from the chaff."
calling us 'chaff' are you? That isn't judging then, when you say it, is it?
Hypocrites!
Her followers will miss all of these incongruities, and they are endless, because they believe in switching off their intellect in favour of pretending all is well and feeling 'in the heart' 'in' love. and blind.
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From:
URGENT MESSAGE DECEMBER - December 24, 2010
http://littlegrandmother.net/URGENTMESSAGEDECEMBER.aspx
"...Again, we realize that for a skeptic this will not be sufficient proof and anything less than a membership roster will not convince them that this Council exists, nor that they are doing work of global and cosmic significiance, however mysterious it appears. While skepticism can be healthy, and transparency is necessary on the societal level of religion, culture and politics, there are nonetheless many spiritual and cosmic good works underway by individuals and groups of individuals that cannot be made known to the internet masses—it would thwart what they are trying to do, and the “under the radar” nature of much that is happening and needs to happen on the planet right now...."
wow, really?!
Q: If it's so important they stay under the radar, why bother mentioning them in the first place?
repeat
Q: If it's so important they stay under the radar, why bother mentioning them in the first place?
Could it be that it all goes towards making 'Kiesha seller of Spirit' oh so important and impressive?
They have to hide in the shadows like frightened children because if they don't the future of the world is at stake? Firstly, where is the Spirit and Faith of the Holy Ones of past times who weren't afraid to be known! Secondly , what pomposity to suggest the future of the world is in the hands of these 'wise ones' who are so wise they (together with Kiesha) couldn't even work out how stupid it is to make ridiculous prophetic claims for 2010 that have not come true! Don't forget that in the Kiesha 2010 video the wisdom keepers all talked amongst themselves about these prophecies, according to Kiesha.
The world is in the hands of these idiots! Heaven help us!
LOL!
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They have to hide in the shadows like frightened children because if they don't the future of the world is at stake?
Time to alert Wikileaks.. :D ;)
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I wonder how many of her videos will get pulled when her minions go through them to cover up when she says she was chosen as a shaman of the Sioux Salish. And the other countless lies.
I wonder if she regrets using the Native American angle to "add color" to her propaganda. The core of her teaching is fluff( crystals, crystal sculls, UFO, etc...) I think it helps sell to the European new age crowd.
She was out of touch to think no one would notice.
Thanks to you all for speaking up. 8)
What I mean by fluff is there is no new earth shattering content or really anything to what she says. I am not judging any ones beliefs but her misuse of Native peoples beliefs.
I suggested her to take off all her old videos to create easier to believe ones since they kind of don't fit in the new claims. :p In public.
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My Message to Kiesha:
Kiesha Crowther, you are but one word. FRAUDULANT! After living on the Salish Kootenai Reservation for many years, I know for a fact that these honest loving people do not bring in outsiders very easily. You sit there on your guilded throne just like Jim Jones and David Coresh giving false prophecies and intimidation to people who are so desperate for any kind of belief in a world that has little to no faith any more. You are nothing but yet another White Woman who has used, abused and tainted a proud people for your own gain. You have the unmitigated gall to stand up and say you were called to be a Shaman?? You are the only one and only SHAMEON!
You are an embarrassment to not only the white people but to any and all Tribes to think that any one NDN would believe in your falsehoods, your lies and your arrogance. You have done nothing and proved nothing and you never will. It's sad really that your life is so little and meaningless you have to portray yourself as someone worthy of being NDN. You are a LIAR and a THIEF to the highest degree and you are plain EVIL. Go back to where you came from because we do not believe, we do not trust and we do not have any respect for You and all of the DISRESPECT you have shown and given to the Indigenous people.
I do not have any hate for you, although I do have contempt, pity, and a whole lot of anger.
Go away white Woman. You are NOT wanted in our world or our Mother Earth.
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I personally wish to address the issue of what is being written on this (fraud site), I thought at first I would not give an ounce of my energy to such a low quality group of beings who are not asking questions but simply attacking and offensively speaking ill of very good human beings.
If anyone needed proof that Crowther is a deluded racist, surely this delivers all the proof that anyone needs.
More front than Brighton Pier. Truly sickening.
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Yep, "low quality group of beings" and "dark" as an insult. Ms. White White Light is White White White Racist.
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Here's one of Eddie Vibes videos...it describes her story more in detail in the first couple of minutes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Jt3ifzJqBM
One of the things that struck me....the "recognition" at 8 years old that she talks about happened at a pow-wow of all places. She was prayed for by either some members of the community or maybe family members (she never distinguishes...only say "Lakota elders" brought her forth and gave her a blessing....but anyone who attends pow-wows regularly has a better idea what that really means and it's not as romantic as she makes it). She admits that she didn't understand any of it, yet she uses that story as a source of legitimacy that she was "recognized" at that age.
Then follows up with the story about the "phone call" from THE "indigenous peoples" (I'm assuming all of them?? lol) and her "calling" to be initiated as a shameon.
For people who don't regularly attend pow-wows....it's not uncommon to give some sort of recognition to relatives when they visit the community from far away. It's not a form of "shaman recognition". It's being a good host and treating outsiders in a good way. She admits herself that they spoke Lakota and she didn't understand any of it...so if she didn't understand any of it...how did it elevate into a status of "recognition by indigenous elders"? Anyone reading can probably connect the dots...she's romanticizing someone saying a prayer for her at a pow-wow (not a ceremony....there's a HUGE difference between a powwow and a ceremony). So, that leaves two distinct possibilities....either she's flat out lying (omission of all the facts is a form of lying as well) or she's completely misinterpreting people at a pow-wow being nice to her as some form of global "indigenous recognition". Neither of which authenticates her legitimacy, but definitely works against the story about being made a "shaman over the Sioux and Salish tribes" (LG's words posted on her bios and reiterated verbatim in her videos and interviews as part of her "official" information).
Superdog
Superdog, I see a pattern here, because this is exactly how the "recognition by a lama" happened: she ran into a tibetan teacher in Sweden, he blessed her, as lamas invariably do, but she took that to mean he "recognized" her as a shaman. Her communication to me about this was admirably vague, but anyone knowing a bit about how teachers operate in the tibetan buddhist context could figure out what had happened. However, "outsiders" do not and so a story with a bit of reality in it, gets manipulated to serve her purpose: a display of authenticity and recognition, her working capital so to speak. The trouble with this is that it exploits the very people who blessed her in the first place. I know that Lakha Lama will have a real problem with being named as the source of a fraudulent recognition by which people are cheated out of their money. No dharma teacher I know has ever charged money for teaching the dharma. As my teacher told me: "the dharma has to be free"
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Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?
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I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.
It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.
I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.
However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.
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Thanks, Kathryn! :)
Lodro - did you ever hear back from the Lama?
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2010 with Shaman, Kiesha Crowther 5/10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_3rCfWTiO8&feature=related)
"...There are many more things that are going to happen in year 2010...
...All of the secrets will be exposed...
...Government cover-ups will be exposed...
...Knowledge of ufo's and higher intelligence, will be exposed...
...Healing possibilities are gonna skyrocket!...
...Psychic phenomena will be proven as a fact and accepted by science worldwide...
...Filthy waters will be cleaned...
...Child labor willl be completely exposed, and destroyed..."
(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet6.png)
Important, please read:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
(click on link above this quote box to read in full)
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Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)
Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).
"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
Lootha is not a Lakota word
So is this "Lota"/"Lootah"/"Lootha" the "Lota" she is now claiming trained her? Geez, her story keeps changing.
Is "Lota" any Lakota word?
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Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?
Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.
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Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?
Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.
Thanks for the info, Lodro. Let me know if you need any assistance since I am here...in Sweden... :)
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If you check the urgent message, it has changed a bit, she has backed up from the native american claims a lot and added the samis and so on and changed the text in the form that is more over all "information" and actually "corrected" some parts of it to be harder to drown with one sentence like in the first version... Think these people are in the mission to destroy everything every indigenous culture in the world has tried to do to preserve their ways, finishing what christianity started. Way to go.
And ofc, the message conflicts totally with what she says in almost every interview and video that has been published, but no one ofc even sees that, this is the truth now since you can create your own truth.
But anyway, who are these new named people in her claims who "initiated her in native american 'shamanism'"? Imagination or real, or frauds?
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Kiesha relates her alleged lineage here:
(starting at 6:11 minutes:seconds into the video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ElesjTYmlc&feature=related)
Here are Kiesha's statements about her lineage with the corrections suggested by educatedindian and Ingeborg, and also the possible correction of what I spelled as 'Lota', which may be 'Lootah'(?).
"I am great grand daughter of Ciqala Lootah(?) and Ciqala Jensen. "
Lootha is not a Lakota word
So is this "Lota"/"Lootah"/"Lootha" the "Lota" she is now claiming trained her? Geez, her story keeps changing.
Is "Lota" any Lakota word?
No we have luta which means scarlet, I don't know the word she is claiming and other word ciqala is spelled Cikala means little she murders our language
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Seems that she tried to say Grandmother Lota and Jensen and then kind of forgot that cikala means little and not grandmother...
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Kiesha, people who follow you are saying you are White Buffalo Calf Woman returned! Maybe you could post here and tell us how to survive the winter with no food money shelter or possessions, because there are alot of people like that about who can't afford to go to your workshops and meet you in person.
Actually from LGs pages here (this page has been changing at least daily since the 24th as the truth is coming out)
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-misinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html (http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/urgent-message-concerning-misinformation-campaign-in-the-internet.html)
Kiesha, if you love everyone so much, PLEASE stop what you are doing. Give up the game. Go back to your normal life and let everyone else do the same. That step would take much courage, and love, on your part. Let some real elders come to you and tell you what you should then do. If you want some personal advise and are sincere, I think you already have a communication line to folks who post here. We would be glad to support you in getting yourself out of this thing you have created for yourself.
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Did anyone contact Lakha Lama and ask him if he has recognized Kiesha as a shaman?
I think it was up to discussion here....but did something come out of it?
Yes, i did, but i haven't received word back yet. Also it seems his swedish email address isn't in active use (anymore), nor is his FB page. I'll try and contact people who know him. She names him, so it's only fair he should know how he figures in her story.
Thanks for the info, Lodro. Let me know if you need any assistance since I am here...in Sweden... :)
Much appreciated. From the statement on the LG website, I take it that the "recognition by the lamas of Nepal and Tibet" has now been taken out.
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Much appreciated. From the statement on the LG website, I take it that the "recognition by the lamas of Nepal and Tibet" has now been taken out.
Nope, it's still there.
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Does anyone recognize the pictographs in the background of this page http://littlegrandmother.net/WorkshopsandTalks.aspx. Another blatant misuse in my books.
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Does anyone recognize the pictographs in the background of this page http://littlegrandmother.net/WorkshopsandTalks.aspx. Another blatant misuse in my books.
All I can say is that I don´t think it is from Sweden. We have loads of rockcarvings, but these are painted, not carved. That´s what it looks like anyway.....
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Here's a better view:
http://littlegrandmother.net/images/petroglyphs.jpg
and here:
http://betseylewis.com/PETROGLYPHS.aspx
(this is the same image)
We filled our drinking water supplies and ate lunch at Corn Creek and then floated to the Legend Creek pictographs.:
http://www.pprr.org/Stories/StoryIdaho2002.htm
(3/4 down page on left)
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"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."
has anyone any info on this "falling feathers" person?
does s/he exist even?
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Now she is blaming the native america preceptor who "initiated" her, for not having done it the right way? However it's clear she's jumping the gun now. All native american references will be removed from how she practices.
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"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."
Is there a URL for the source quoted here ?
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Now she is blaming the native america preceptor who "initiated" her, for not having done it the right way? However it's clear she's jumping the gun now. All native american references will be removed from how she practices.
That's great.. now if she would also drop all the references to all other sources she is trampling on.
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Hmmm, wouldn't you have called the tribal office to check your standing BEFORE you set up all those appointments and taken all that money? ::) Maybe we should call the tribal offices just to check and see if she actually called...
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"Very recently, Kiesha called the tribal council office to inquire about her official standing in the tribe. She was told that Falling Feathers had not acted with the permission of the tribal council—therefore she was not recognized officially by the tribe. You can imagine how shocked and dismayed she was to find this out."
has anyone any info on this "falling feathers" person?
does s/he exist even?
I checked the obits for CSKT back to the first of the year. Kieshas handler claim falling feathers recently crossed however there is no mention of such a person.
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WOW!.... LOL.......AWESOME.....I know it's not finished but you all did an awesome job in outing this fraud....I love this site...LOL....LOL... :D ;) :) 8) :o :) ;) :D ;D 8)
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Did she apologize for the bad names she called us? ;D
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Well, this is possibly good. At least better.
Seems like the names 'Little Grandmother' and 'Tribe of Many Colors' are still very Native American influenced. Those should go as well and be replaced with other names.
It sounds like she is blaming Falling Feathers and only partly her own misunderstanding. But she is still relying on supposed 'elders' and the 'Continental Council' which just don't appear genuine. How you go from your own misunderstanding to making those wild claims does show a lack of understanding and care which should make thinking people realize she is still the same person inside.
If she wanted to really help people she would leave the entire business right now, take a couple of years off, get some real spiritual guidance, work with impoverished folks, and then see what she should do next. There is way too much mud on the current thing/image/names to pick it up and move it forward.
And of course if she wants some integrity moving forward some kind of video apologies to the Salish and Sioux, all native tribes, her followers, the general public, and folks who confronted her false stance should be in order. Not holding my breath on that.
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So is Don Alejandro Oxlaj that Kiesha refers to an authentic Mayan leader ?
And do we know what Kiesha is thinking when she says that they 'recognize' her as a shaman ? Or is she just making more assumptions?
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http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=3076.0
As you will see the Call to Action linked above, Crowther is right now booked for some upcoming appearances (there's also one in New Mexico). In her bio (http://www.greatmystery.org/nl/ps2011littleg.html) on that "Prophets" site, she still makes all her false "Sioux/Salish Shaman" claims, complete with publicity photos in her fake, offensive regalia. That's why there's now a grassroots effort to stop her.
And as Sky and Al have posted multiple times now: There is zero evidence that "Falling Feathers" ever existed.
The passing of an honoured Elder, heck, the passing of any member of a close-knit tribal community like we are discussing, would not only be noted in their records, it would have been discussed openly. It would be noted in the tribal newspaper and probably the local mainstream papers, as well. The death of elders is not the part of tribal ways that is kept secret.
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Revealer, I don't care what Kiesha is thinking. I care that she is harming NDN peoples and traditions with her false statements. I'm tired of psychoanalyzing her; we've done enough of that. Now that we have thoroughly debunked her it's time to stop her - via continued education of those who would be fooled by her and by peaceful but firm protest.
As for Oxlaj/Perez, he has already been discussed multiple times in this thread, and in other threads on the board. You can link to those discussions if you wish, as obviously he is one of the people Crowther is trying to use for authorization, but I would keep specific discussions about him in his own thread and keep this one focused on Crowther. Thanks.
Though I would like it confirmed or denied if he ever "authorized" her in any way. Again, see the research on the first pages of this thread for his connections to the newage "council" they try to pass off as an Elder's Council.
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May I also suggest utilizing Twitter to get the word out on Kiesha and other Plastics. You can direct specific places for the Tweets to go (called Tags #) such as #Shaman #Pagan #Shamanic #2012 #Newage (your State or Country) etc. Tweets are Global. I've been posting Kiesha videos all over these locations, along with other videos specifically about the fakes. If everyone can get a Twitter account (they are free) it's a simple matter to post and saturate the market regarding the Fakes.
Twitter.com
Twitter Basics http://support.twitter.com/groups/31-twitter-basics
There are also Meetup Groups you can Join, which are pretty much everywhere, such as Pagan Shaman Shamanic Wicca etc...
to let them know about Plastics. Search for your area groups here to saturate
http://www.meetup.com/find/
Lindaa.
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(http://i1115.photobucket.com/albums/k558/SpandexAtom/falseprophet4.png)
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Here's the "official statement" in tribe's site:
http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/official-statement-regarding-native-american-issues-dp1.html
The previous messages have been deleted from the official sites, but they can be found from googles cache, when gooling Kiesha Crowther (or Little Grandmother) urgent message december. Also, I have screenshots on my computer of some of the changing claims...
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Been following something. Veetkam's site (tribeofmanycolors.net) closed down the forum for a while recently. It just went back up today with this message:
"Dear Forum - Users
The Forum is provisional re-opened. Please use it gently and in respect and as a Forum of the Tribe of Many Colors - WEB-Site. Please respect the Netiquette and please place your postings in an adequate Forums- Section !!!
The downtime has given also a welcome possibility to start with the implementation of an UpDate to the Forum-Software. Some details are stil not defently defined and therefore it's possible, that some functions or colors do change during next time.
We will realise some organisational changes - during next weeks or months. As far this concerns you direct, you will be informed at the appropriate Time.
We wish you a inspiring and lovingful time here
Administration "
Seems they've been having issues. There's several threads that are locked (ones that have to do with the latest controversies regarding Crowther's false claims). Looks like they've done some major censoring.
From reading the available threads it looks like the tribeofmanycolors.net site will be closing in January and they're moving everything to the littlegrandmother.net site....forum included.
They don't give any substantial reasons for moving other than some PR ideas that the membership has grown too much. That one I find highly doubtful. I'm guessing it may have something to do with Veetkam himself and his ability to constantly put his foot in his mouth and embarrass the "community" with his rantings outside of the website and subsequent reports of his control freak behavior and negativity surrounding him and his relations with forum members who were kicked out (some of whom have showed up here voicing their concerns)....but that's just my guess....
Superdog
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Yesterday I wrote an email to her org. (nicely & politely) asking them to cease & desist the sale of Sacred ways and/or items...the following is what I sent and their reply I found this morning--OH and I'm being threatened with a lawsuit for LIBEL (odd since I used HER OWN WORDS & CLAIMS--hmmm is repeating someone's own words libelous? NO!!)
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To prophets@greatmystery.org
From: xxxx xxxx xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Sent: Mon 12/27/10 3:10 PM
To: prophets@greatmystery.org
To Whom It May Concern:
I am writing to you in reference to the above mentioned workshop. It has been brought to my attention that
Keisha Crowther aka Little Grandmother will be speaking at your workshop. As a mixed blood Native American,
I would like to inform you that this woman is considered a fraud by both the Lakota and Salish Nations.
She has taken it upon herself to use the most Sacred of items to the Lakota and use it in a very wrong way.
The Canupa (ceremonial Pipe) was gifted to the Lakota Oyate by the White Buffalo Calf Woman. It is not for use
in ceremonies of any kind by others who have not been taught the proper use and or tenants of the Lakota Spiritual
belief system.
The following is a statement sent to me via a friend that came directly from Salish Elders regarding Miss Crowther:
Official Statement from Salish Elders Regarding Kiesha Crowther
"The Culture and Elders Committee of the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes of the Flathead Reservation protect the intangible cultural resources of the tribes including language, songs, stories etc.
"No tribal Elders or elders have met with nor do they condone the claims and actions made by Kiesha Crowther.
"She is not their 'shaman', she has no right to claim this title and the Elders and elders of CSKT of the Flathead Reservation would like her to cease and desist immediately from making such false claims that erode the traditions that members of the CSKT Culture and Elders Committee are trying to preserve."
The posting of this statement came with the permission and urging of the Salish elders. Anyone doubting this message's authenticity can contact the Flathead Reservation.
It is with a most humble heart that I besiege you to cancel this function and help the Salish and Lakota Peoples to stop the theft
of their spiritual ways as a way to earn money. We do NOT condone the selling of things that are sacred.
Thank you for your kind consideration in this most serious matter.
I remain,
respectfully yours,
(my real name here)
(French-Mi'kmaq-Chitimacha/Irish-Scot)
-------------------Their reply that I received today (12/28/2010)---------------------------
RE: Little Grandmother?
12/27/10
Little Grandmother Admin Little Grandmother Adminbeautyawakens@gmail.com
From: Little Grandmother Admin (beautyawakens@gmail.com)
Sent: Mon 12/27/10 8:28 PM
To: xxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Dear XXX XXXX,
I would like to advise you that Kiesha Crowther has sought an attorney and will seek legal action against those are attempting to slander, libel and defame her. The below statement was posted to Kiesha's web sites yesterday regarding these Native American issues and these allegations, clarifying her position. The facts are clear, and transparent, and we are prepared to defend them. Kiesha is not teaching Lakota or Native American traditions at this workshop and does not teach them in general. She is not conducting Native American ceremony or in any way representing specific tribal traditions or culture at this workshop, and will not be using any Native American sacred implements publicly, at this workshop or in the future. She has issued a statement clarifying these issues and what she will and will not be teaching and doing in the future.
IIf you do not cease this libel and malicious activity we will pursue legal action against you. As of yet we have received no official communications from a tribal council or official on these matters, and Kiesha has done her best to be transparent and cooperative with any concerns raised by native people.She has always been open to dialogue and to resolution, but many it seems are intent only upon attack and malice. Why not contact her first about this, as a responsible mature adult would do? She is not hiding anything, and is completely open to critiques and tribal concerns. What has this elders council not contacted Kiesha directly, and why is no one in charge willing to sign it or put their official name on it? Kiesha herself has already contacted the tribal council, as you will see from the statement below.
Kiesha stands steadfast in the truth of who she is, and will not cower in the face of these bullying tactics. Kiesha recieved her medicine as gifts from indigenous peoples, and has every right to use it. She will not be using anything at all publicly that is Native American, and this workshop has nothing to do with Native American ways. So please cease this attacking and libelous activity, and be clear that we will not have untruths spread about Kiesha to her personal and professional contacts. We are seeking legal protection, and keeping track of all of these emails and communications. If you are part of a group concerted effort-- please share this information with them, and have them contact us directly with their concerns.
Official Statement Regarding Native American Issues
12/26/2010
Kiesha (Little Grandmother) was initiated into shamanism at age 30 by a Native American elder named Falling Feathers. Kiesha’s mother’s side of the family live on the Flathead Reservation in Montana. Falling Feathers w