Re: Kiesha Crowther - "Little Grandmother"

[Defend the Sacred]

IMO racism is not restricted to people in pointy white hats who burn crosses in people's gardens or any of the more obvious forms of racism.

Some of the most destructive and hurtful types of racism are relatively subtle, unconscious and commonly held projections, endorsed by the dominating culture.

Just for example, the "noble savage" and the closely related "magical negro", stereotypes relate to both idealised and denigrated elements of the white collective unconscious that are commonly projected onto NDNs and Africans respectively.

One of the most hurtful aspects of these projections is that - possibly due to the idealised elements of the projections and also their unconscious nature - white people are usually oblivious to the racism inherent in them.   

People often feel extremely defensive about this when challenged IME.  This is possibly because, as well as all the other things it can be, racism is often considered to be the worst thing that a person can be accused of.

In my opinion as well. This is the type of racism I was referring to: more subtle, usually unconscious, but far more prevalent than the obvious  racism of the cross burners. Thank you for articulating it, Nemesis.

Per usual, linkage: "The Do's and Don'ts of Being a Good Ally"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2365.0

and: "For Those Who Recently Discovered Indian Ancestry"
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1048.0

[nemesis]

I just wanted to share an embarrassing fact about myself.

When I was a teenager I genuinely believed that Asian people who wore gowns and turbans were deeply spiritual and had access to all kinds of mysterious and arcane knowledge.

I grew up in a boring suburban town where most people were preoccupied with making money during the week and getting drunk at weekends.  I desperately wanted something "more" and felt that it must exist somewhere "other" than the place I knew as home.  Asian people were "other" and seemed mysterious to me and so were a perfect repository for my fantasies.

I was not a "bad" person as a teen.  I was not conscious of any racism towards Asian people, and yet I possessed a cherished fantasy of Asians generally and ancient Egyptians in particular as being wise, mysterious and spiritual.

This fantasy ended up getting me into some troubling situations, one of which was a very rude awakening indeed.

In retrospect my fantasy was racist, not in a cross burning way, but in a way where an actual human being or group of human beings were perceived by me as objects in my internal fantasy world, not as real people.

I do think that these kinds of projections are part of the human condition.  I do not think that is especially helpful to beat ourselves up about them, but it is important to acknowledge them and to be willing to explore our feelings in the respect.  To deny this tendency in ourselves and to resist exploring our unconscious fantasies in this way is to condemn the people on the receiving end to much hurt and pain and even mental illness as their traumatic experiences of racism are dismissed as if they are unreal, and they are the ones with the distorted fantasies.   

[Peasant]

Hmm, i understand what you mean now, thanks for the clarification. I've never seen the word 'racism' used in that way before, and still think it's not the most fitting, but i guess this is indeed a difference in how we personally define it, and how it is used in different countries. Yes, some of Kiesha Crowther's followers are very much like that and i probably had a bit of this fantasy image as well.

I've sent a message about her to this website, asking if they can give advice about the matter:
http://www.lakota.nl/english.html
Seems like a trustworthy resource.

Edit: I've just received this reply from them (translated):

"Thank you for the information. I've heard the name before, but didn't know that she's also coming to speak in our country. These videos look very suspicious. Unfortunately no people are involved in collecting evidence about this matter at the moment. There was a Cherokee woman in Belgium, but she's quit doing this because of all the negative responses. I also wouldn't know anyone from the Lakota who could take action. The communities aren't so small that everyone knows each other, so it's very possible that people there don't even know about her."

[Superdog]

There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct.  Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.

While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value, it disregards many of the things that she does and claims that is considered most offensive and then goes a step further and claim that Hopi, Inuit and Cherokee elders (among other tribes) recognize her claims as well.

Don't have much time to comment further, but I can bet there will be people here that will have plenty to say.

Superdog

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

well, since she tells people "as I always have asked, and do not judge without
educating yourself on what is really being said and done" Hopefully then, they will
all come here and read what is really being said..

as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.

[Peasant]

There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VocJYC-_u4M
First 10 seconds.  ::)

This 'Urgent Message' response is not from the website owner, the first little part is written by Kiesha Crowther and the other part is made by an anonymous writer, i don't know who it is. I think this person also writes the other 'Urgent Messages'. It's not the website owner though, his style of writing is very unique, i would recognize it.

-

While I'm sure her followers would more than likely take this information at face value...

Yes, many will. I've just read it... to someone who wants to believe, it will probably sound 100% accurate and true.

Again, these elders and particular tribes are never named. Readers are advised to listen to what their heart tells them. An attempt is made to discredit NAFPS based on topics present about Adam Yellowbird and Drunvalo Melchizedek, which they apparently perceive as completely truthful people. Even the thread on the Thirteen Indigenous Grandmothers is mentioned, even though it's in the 'research needed' forum. All the good work people here have done at exposing fake ceremony sellers and impostors, and all the credible websites, people and groups that cooperate with NAFPS or use it for information, are left out of the loop (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1235.0). Basically NAFPS is portrayed as one of the evils of the internet. It feels like a low blow to me. How convenient to mention this 'non-native shaman' story now... fact of the matter is; Kiesha's talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this "shaman for the Flathead reservation tribe of the Sioux and Salish" story, many many times. This is very misleading.

I don't know Yellowbird but i do have some of Melchizedek's books, i think he does have some credible & unique knowledge and theories but also lots of really wild and ridiculous fantasies (like teaching Thoth - the Egyptian god of the moon, magic, the calendar, literacy and wisdom - his personal meditation technique). Before calling himself Drunvalo Melchizedek he called himself Akbar... strange story. I'm pretty certain he's as human as anyone else and from my experience, his meditation technique is not really superior to basic relaxing and being still. I haven't read the thread about him yet, i'm curious as to what people here at NAFPS think about him. Anyway, back on topic.

[A little notice - skeptics may frown upon what i say now but i consider this a truth, and i'm posting this in hope that someone who is active on tribeofmanycolors.net will read this] I do believe Kiesha Crowther may indeed have a good intuition/certain abilities. For example she may very well have been speaking a language she otherwise couldn't speak. Fact of the matter is, during transpersonal regression therapy sessions, this stuff happens quite often. I can imagine that the trance-like state she must be in when receiving supposed messages from the other side must be very similar to, if not the same as, a regression trance. To me it isn't even that special anymore. This occurrence, if it really happened, is not supposed to be used as a yardstick for truth, and especially not to be used as proof of 'the good side'. It can originate from anywhere and from what i've learned so far with regression therapy, most of the time it occurs there, it isn't something good.

-

as always, when questions arise and there is no valid legitimacy to a claim, then it
is deemed as 'negative' to look further and try to uncover the truth.

Yes, i am now considered to be a bringer of low energy.

[Lodro]

I've sent a message through her site's contact form:

In a statement on this website, it is said that Kiesha Crowther was recognized as a shaman by "the lamas of Nepal and Tibet". Is it possible to let me know who these lamas would be? I might know some of them personally, and lineage is of the utmost important in the vajrayana tradition, so it would be a great help and a great gift to know who these teachers are. Thank you so much

[Lodro]

Well, I received word that she has been "recognized as a shaman" by Lakha Lama. She claims he was, or is, from the village of Makram, in Tibet, however, Lakaha Lama has been living in Sweden since 1976, according by his Facebook page. And this may be hs ow she knows is, as she has been in Sweden giving teachings in the course of this year. I've written to the person who admins his group on Facebook, to confirm to me that Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

[C_from_Wpg]

I have to say that this is not the case, i recall Kiesha made a Facebook post a few months ago where she mentions her kids, here it is:

Kiesha Crowther  I was on my way with my two children to a friends house to have dinner and we actually drove threw the image of the rainbow right in front of us on the highway.. Ive never saw anything like it before.. the kids were so excited that they couldn't even speak lol.. it was so beautiful.. mother nature sure is amazing isnt she?
01 August at 20:24

I do not know if she is living with her husband and children but apparently she has at least not abandoned her children.

I've bolded the part that struck me when I first read it.  It is not possible to drive through the image of a rainbow.  If you walk (or drive) towards a rainbow, the sun will be behind you and the rainbow will appear to move into the distance ahead of you.  More info (from the Wikipedia entry on rainbows):

A rainbow does not actually exist at a particular location in the sky. Its apparent position depends on the observer's location and the position of the Sun. All raindrops refract and reflect the sunlight in the same way, but only the light from some raindrops reaches the observer's eye. This light is what constitutes the rainbow for that observer. The position of a rainbow in the sky is always in the opposite direction of the Sun with respect to the observer, and the interior is always slightly brighter than the exterior.

My post might be seen as nit-picking by some, but the "driving through the rainbow" story is one more strike against her credibility.

I've read this entire thread and I've looked at most of what is linked to.  It sure looks like Crowther is being exploited.  I hope her children are safe, wherever they are.

[educatedindian]

I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."

I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.

"she has been recognized as shaman of the "Tribe of Many Colors" by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"

Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.

Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.

Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.

Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?

Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities

Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.

Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.

Zulu- again, millions of Zulu

The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.

I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:

Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.

Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.

[educatedindian]

....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.

[C_from_Wpg]

I'd say her credibility is shot every time she calls herself "Sioux" (the colonial term that no actual Lakota would use) or claims that there is such a thing as a "Sioux Salish tribe."

I'd say her credibility is much more shot by her blatant lies in that message defending herself.

"she has been recognized as shaman of the "Tribe of Many Colors" by the spiritual elders of many indigenous tribes and peoples including the Cherokee, the Cheyenne, the Hopi, the Inuit, the Aboriginal people, the Waitaha, the Maori, the Maya, the Zulu, as well as the lamas of Nepal and Tibet. Gifts and medicine from these peoples began coming soon after she was initiated as shaman at age 30"

Then why can't she name even one alleged elder who supposedly supports her? All she can name is an obvious fraud like Adam DeArmon/Yellowbird, a white exploiter out of Sedona who harmed dozens of Native elders with false claims. Not even Manataka was fooled by DeArmon.

Again the list of people she claims have elders supporting her:
Cherokee-
Which ones? Which of the three recognized nations?
Fact is, the Cherokee Nation has said openly many times that to put up a shingle on the web means you are a fraud. Period.

Hopi Nation- says the same. That's at least two tribes that consider her to be an outright fraud. More than likely her supposed "elders" are of dubious origin.

Inuit- Which ones of hundreds of communities?

Aboriginal people- have thousands of communities

Waitaha, Maori- apparently Crowther doesn't seem to know the Waitaha ARE Maoris. But a simple check shows why they mention this group within the Maori. Apparently the exploiter Melchizedek makes claims about their prophecies.

Maya- Again, which ones of the thousands of communities? Actual Maya tend to ID by their region and village.

Zulu- again, millions of Zulu

The lamas of Nepal and Tibet-ALL of them?
She certainly is big on grandiose unproven claims.

I will make the offer right now to Crowther and her supporters:

Name these supposed elders that you claim support her.

Until then, all she has backing her is an obvious fraud and exploiter, DeArmon, with a long track record of claiming to promote peace and spirituality while taking every dollar he can lay his hands on.

Of course the above claims are far more serious and grandiose than tall tales about owls or rainbows.  I want to make it clear that I in no way support any of her outrageous claims.  I re-read my previous post - I did not mean to imply that she has much (if any) "credibility" to begin with - I was just pointing out yet one more item to the laundry list of her (what should be) obvious lies.  I was aiming for irony and missed....  :P :-[

(Thanks, Superdog, for posting this link.)

There's currently a response to this thread from the tribeofmanycolors website owner here:

http://www.tribeofmanycolors.net/news-and-urgent-messages/response-to-misinformation-on-the-web.html

It makes the attempt to explain her legitimacy and distance Crowther from claims that she's a Sioux or Salish shaman, but in fact a "Native American shaman" and then goes on to explain why this is more correct.  Sadly it does so with truly flawed logic.

Here is a quote from that website:

I personally have witnessed Kiesha receive teaching messages in Sioux (which she does not speak) from ancestors past.

How is this person able to identify the language Crowther is "receiving teachings" in?  Does (s)he know this language?  Is it recorded and then played back for someone to translate?

IMO it is worth pointing out all of the stuff that sounds suspect, whether it is big or small.  Even if someone does not see through the bigger lies (whether through ignorance or for whatever other reason), pointing out some of the smaller lies and distortions might just jar them into thinking, "Hey, wait a minute, that doesn't make any sense - I wonder if any of the other stuff is BS?"

I am glad that Crowther's own supporters have made her followers aware of the NAFPS website.  I hope some of them are curious enough to read what is posted here (in other threads, too).  Reading Crescent's posts in this thread is very heartening (thanks, Crescent).  Yes, it is possible to see the light of day after being fooled by a plastic-shaman type (been there myself - not for very long, though, thankfully  ::) - one weekend workshop, over a decade ago, plus a few silly "shaman adventure" books that I've read over the years even when I should have known better).  Reading the NAFPS forum played a big role in getting me to realize just how extremely silly a lot of this stuff is.  I have also seen, first-hand, the harm it can do to people who buy into it (one person I know has been greatly harmed by it).  By reading this forum, I have also become aware of the great harm the plastics do to the peoples and cultures whose ways they appropriate.  I would like to encourage Crowther's followers (and Crowther herself, if she is reading this) to read and think about what is posted on the NAFPS website, even though it might make them uncomfortable at first.  I guarantee that if you do so, and step back and let it sink in whenever you have to, you will learn a lot.

One way to slow down these plastics is to try to get through to those in their target market.  I believe that there are at least a few good-hearted people who have been fooled in the past, are willing to admit it, and are willing to speak out against it.

[Lodro]

....Lakaha Lama has, indeed, recognized her in some way, as a Shaman.

Can you explain what that means, exactly? That she was trained, has abilities, what exactly? Esp since she's not Tibetan herself. And the stranger part is, why would a Tibetan lama's endorsement have anything to do with an alleged "Salish Sioux"? I doubt the Lama would think much of a Lakota medicine man "recognizing" someone as a lama.

I have exchanged a number of emails with Kiesha Crowther, especially focusing on this point: the "recognition" as shaman.

It turns out she has spoken with Lakha Lama briefly, while in Sweden. And of course he said kind things to her, which is how Lamas are. If you ask for a blessing you'll receive it. This in no way means "recognition", and in general, a Tibetan Lama would never "recognize" a shaman.
I've pointed out to Crowther that she willfully confuses people with her use of the word "recognition", as that is - in Tibetan usage - reserved for recognition as a "tulku" ie a teacher who influences his or her own rebirth in order to continue the link with students and the lineage.

I am sure (but I have yet to receive confirmation from Lakha Lama to whom I've written) that there is no endorsement here, only kind words and a blessing like anyone may receive from a compassionate teacher.

However, in her communication with me, Crowther first claims that she does not take teachings from Tibetan Lamas, then goes on to say that they are somehow connected with the council of indigenous elders. But apart from Lakha Lama, whom she names, she doesn't give any names, so I doubt the existence of these teachers in connection with her.

[Peasant]

OK i've seen enough. She tries to get people behind her by making outrageous claims and when these claims are challenged, she makes even more outrageous claims or takes things completely out of context, like the Tibetan lama thing. Her followers must think these statements are far too big to be made up. Most of her stories are just in the slightest bit based on reality, she'd make a mountain out of a molehill (a magic and sacred mountain prophesied to pop up in a time of great turmoil). Been reading other topics, other forums like the Rick Ross board and blogs by critics within the New Age field and i can see that there are and have been many like her... the unique bit is that she's gotten so much publicity in such a short time, thanks to Youtube. I feel stupid for believing her fantasies, doing translation work and donating some money... well, another lesson learned.

It's a clear sign that she's got something to hide if she's backing away from these claims of tribal recognition. Look at the video i've linked to in my previous post. Just about all her talks, workshops and interviews have been advertised with this 'Sioux Salish shaman' story. I saved this video to my computer in case it gets deleted. Here's another video where she says the same kind of thing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCGwDMgW3dc&feature=related (at 07:28).

"May you listen for the truth from your deepest hearts", what a load of bullshit. These claims can only ever be substantiated by identifying the 'Sioux Salish' who supposedly recognized her at the age of 8, and by asking those who initiated her as a shaman at the age of 30 to step forward. For people who are now thinking "The message is what counts, not the messenger" or something like that: The messenger has to be truthful. You can expect the message to be highly distorted if she's making stories up about her background, especially if she gets her information through channeling (apparently). And if the messenger doesn't count, she could charge half of what she charges now for her talks and still be able to cover her costs and support herself.

To the people who consider themselves a member of the 'Tribe of Many Colors': according to the FAQ on Kiesha's websites, her free videos are what it's all about and her talks or workshops are just a little extra for the people who want to meet her in person. I think it's wise to follow this advice that she herself has given. She's actually telling people to shut down their minds in her workshops. Sure, not thinking so much can be good for some time, just to relax. Meditation can be great. But it seems that this is not what she is talking about. Consider everything people have said in this topic and other sites that contain criticism; are you really sure it's safe to entrust the integrity of your mind to her? She may have good intentions, but i think she's on the wrong track. Her 'tribe' is starting to get a lot of cult-like tendencies. I've read two testimonies written by people who have been to her workshops. One saw the trees moving in the wind and interpreted this as some great majestic sign. The other one thinks 'left brain analytical doubts' and academic thinking is something bad that has to be overpowered. This whole tribe stuff couldn't exist without left brain activity... Internet, computers, camcorders? Anyone?

[nemesis]

Please don't feel bad crescent.

I think that you are very brave to be able to examine your own heart and feelings and to be able to realise that you were tricked.

Many good people are tricked by people like Crowther and I actually think that your courage in being truthful with yourself and writing about it here is probably very validating and thus healing for the native people who Crowther exploits by selling ceremony.

There is an old saying that goes something like "If today you realise that you are not as clever a person as you thought you were yesterday, you are a cleverer person today".

Please take some goodness from this experience as I think you are a better and wiser person for it.