The Red Record

[bls926]

Bls take a look at the statement on my website "This is published for educational purposes at no cost. Please do not reproduce without permission. Copyright 2008 Vince Barrows All rights reserved."

Once again, Bls did not ever ask permission, and may not use my website. Bls malicious actions and false comments are aimed at sidetracking to divert attention away from the topic.

Here's the law, Bubo . . .

U.S. Code: TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 1 > § 107

§ 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and

(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html


One final time . . . I do not need your permission.


Calling my actions "malicious" and my comments "false" border on slander.


Bubo, I see you don't know when to stop.
Take some advice . . . Now would be the perfect time.

[BuboAhab]

Wrong Again, Bls. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
Please stop sidetracking and complaining on this website.  Bls complaints have already been taken over to another website located on Etc.

[bls926]

Wrong Again, Bls. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.
Please stop sidetracking and complaining on this website.  Bls complaints have already been taken over to another website located on Etc.

Did you read Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use? Maybe you should read it again.

Bubo, you really need to grow up! I'm not attacking you, the person; I'm critiquing your post.

As for complaining and sidetracking this thread . . . Why did you respond to my post?

[BuboAhab]

Getting back on topic...

http://hnn.us/comments/73376.html

Walum Olum forgery (#73376)
by Myron Paine on January 2, 2006 at 7:18 PM
Proclaiming that the Walam Olum is a forgery may be premature when Oestreicher's references, evidence, and logic are investigated further.

Oestreicher left out of his references two men who had researched the Lenape and their language for many yearss before him:

George E. Hyde, wrote Indians of the Woodlands, 1962. Hyde used the Walam Olum and other oral hisgtories to describe the ancient Lenape migration from Canada through Michigan, into Ohio, where they joined the Iroquois to fight the Sioux, and then on to the east coast.

Oestreicher appatenty did not know the ancient Lenape history when he cited Ojibwa, Shawnee, Sioux, and Iroquois loan words as evidence that Rafinewques used any available Indian word to make up a story (#49 p. 8 )

A more viable hypothesis for those same loan words is that they were learned by the Lenape during decades of interaction with the named tribes. Thus the Walam Olum appears to be valid ancient history.

Reider T. Sherwin wrote The Viking and the Red Man in eight voumes from 1940 through 1954. Sherwin, who knew and Old Norse dialect, focused on the Algonquin Language. His eight volumes contain more than 15,000 comparisons between Algonquin "words" and Old Norse phrases. Sherwin believed the Walam Olum was in the Old Norse language, with the title morphed from "Maalan Aarum," meaning "engraved years."

A reader familiar with Sherwin can observe that Oestricher used modern Lenape definitions to condemn Rafinesque's use of many words. But Old Norse definitions for the same words are strong evidence that Rafinesque was trying to faitfully translate the confusing text he had.

Using Sherwin's comparisons of Algonquin, Old Norse, and English to translate the Walam Olum was conceived as an independent test of its validity.

Strong positive testimony was found in the first verse of Chapter 3. All the Walam Olum words could be found in Sherwin's Algonquin listing. The associated Old Norse words sounded similar. The English meaning was similar.

But, it the first line, an equivalent word for "rushing waters" was not there. An intensive search of Sherwin's eight volumes looking for "rushing waters" in English, finally paid off. The companion Algonquin word was noted. The equivalent Old Norse word was shown in a phrase with words in front and behind. Those front and behind words sounded similar to the visible Walam Olum words. Somewhere, in over sixteen (16) generations of oral history, the Walam Olum word for "rusing water" went missing!

The Walam Qlum can be restored using Sherwin's comparisons.

Because the Walam Olum can be translated with a historic language, the Walam Olum is a hisotric document.

Indian Loan words are testimony that the Walam Olum describes the history miagration of the Lenape.

Based on the evidence, Rafinesque is not guilty of a forgery.

Mow there are much more productive hypotheses to pursue.

One viable hypothesis is that the Walam Olum is a valid oral history orighinally spoken in Old Norse. This hypothesis implies that the last seven verse in Chapter 3 describe the Norse people of Greenland walking to America on the ice.

That hypothesis is worth of pursuit.

---
My question is: Assuming Paine, Hyde, and Sherwin are correct, are these languages similar because the Algonquins were speaking old Norse or the "old Norse" were speaking Algonquin? Could they have been multi-lingual? Could they have been the same language in total?

[E.P. Grondine]

Wrong Again, Bls. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission.

Bubo, consider for a minute that in your own view these two tablets belong to the Lenape.

[E.P. Grondine]

I believe that by carefully studying the different "scripts" used at the different production times for the Burrows Cave frauds, the personalities of some of the people behind them may be discovered, and their development may be observed.

[sunka nunpa]

Nobody's denying the Vikings visited America. Beyond that, though...

As for the Lenape, you'd be surprised. Monsanto has the patent on strains of broccoli hundreds of years old. Intellectual property seems to mean "If you're merely filthy rich and trying to get obscenely rich, it's yours."

[E.P. Grondine]

One viable hypothesis is that the Walam Olum is a valid oral history originally spoken in Old Norse. This hypothesis implies that the last seven verse in Chapter 3 describe the Norse people of Greenland walking to America on the ice.

Bubo, I appreciate your interest in my book, as it passes on some of the peoples memories of European visitors, and also describes and sets out their use of writing and proto-writing.

You may want to view it as supporting evidence for your hypothesis, and that is something I have no control over, other than to say that my opinion of the Walam Olum differs from yours and I can not support your hypothesis.

Also, I don't know which is worse, Oestreicher's reconstruction of Lenape and Shawnee history, or your own. Yours seems to have it, but not by much, in my opinion.

What I think needs to be done in researching the Walam Olum I set out in my earlier post "Reconstructing Rafinesque".

What I have noticed is that "Man and Impact in the Americas" seems to work much as a touchstone does, and run ins like those with Shkaakwas and yourself and another person who I will not name here will probably happen again in the future.

M'si Manitou, please give me strength.

[BuboAhab]

Ed Grondine, Did you notice that the hypothesis was a direct quote from Myron Payne or did you just assume that I came up with it? Did you bother to read any of the sources that Myron Payne cited?

[E.P. Grondine]

Ed Grondine, Did you notice that the hypothesis was a direct quote from Myron Payne

No, because of the way you cited it.

or did you just assume that I came up with it?

No, but clearly you do support Payne's view.

Did you bother to read any of the sources that Myron Payne cited?

No. I have many requests on my time, and Payne's hypothesis differs greatly from what I know to be true. From what you have shown here, I suspect spurious cognates being formed to support a belief which his supporters desire to hold. I've seen this before in Linear A studies.

Now who are the "private collectors", Bubo?

How much $money$ did they spend acquiring their Burrows Cave "artifacts"?

And have any of them passed recently, so that their heirs might make the objects available for examination?

[BuboAhab]

"No, but clearly you do support Payne's view."
So now cut and paste it into this discussion means "support Payne's view"? Not so.

However, following up with reading the sources to become more informed about the topic would not hurt. My opinion was clearly stated, that the linguistic connections are interesting to see "Maalan Aarum," meaning "engraved years."

Consider the scenarios that would be required for such a linguistic connection.

Once again, I do not know who the private collectors are that you are looking for and also do not know how much $ they spent.

[E.P. Grondine]

However, following up with reading the sources to become more informed about the topic would not hurt.

I have other demands upon my time right now, Bubo.

My opinion was clearly stated, that the linguistic connections are interesting to see "Maalan Aarum," meaning "engraved years."

Consider the scenarios that would be required for such a linguistic connection.

I did. What would be required for such a "linguistic connection" would be a group of people who desperately wanted it to be a true "linguistic connection".  For example, see the earlier discussion in this thread of Oestreicher's "pussy" work.

Once again, I do not know who the private collectors are that you are looking for and also do not know how much $ they spent.

Bubo, surely you must have gathered a part of this information for your database. Otherwise it would not be as "comprehensive" as you desired, nor as you claimed here that it was.

[BuboAhab]

Consider the scenarios that would be required for such a linguistic connection.
"I did. What would be required for such a "linguistic connection" would be a group of people who desperately wanted it to be a true "linguistic connection"."

Another scenario is that this linguistic connection is genuine. Genuine evidence of contact between the Algonquians and the Vikings, sharing their sacred history. 

"Bubo, surely you must have gathered a part of this information for your database. Otherwise it would not be as "comprehensive" as you desired, nor as you claimed here that it was."
Yes, I gathered all the information in my database. If I removed the information that you did not like, it would be partial and biased.

[bls926]

http://hnn.us/comments/73376.html

Walum Olum forgery (#73376)

That post is one Myron Paine made on George Mason University's History News Network on January 2, 2006. Reading that, with all the typos and misspelled words, it's hard to believe he's a published author. He must have one hell of an editor.

Where does Paine think Old Norse came from? It didn't originate in Greenland. He's wondering if Algonquian is based on Old Norse or if Old Norse is based on Algonquian. Following that second hypothesis, the people of Norway would be descendants of the Algonquian people of the Western Hemisphere. That's crazy thinking, but . . .

If the Walam Olum is written in Old Norse, it proves to me that it's a forgery, written by a white man from Norway.

[BuboAhab]

The complainer should read Sherwin and find out.