"Celtic Tantra" - Marta Emmitt, Robert Osborn

[JeelyPiece]

So this was mentioned on an intro thread but I looked into it a bit more and think it could do with a thread here.

The Celtic Tantra site is run by Marta and Robert Emmitt. Marta claims to have Native American roots, though she doesn't give any more detail. They go into some background of how they came to Tantra (I don't know enough about that to comment, sorry) and mention the fact that their teachings are also inspired by a "Medicine Woman" who runs events at the place they hold their own at (link below).

The whole "Celtic" Tantra mixed with dubious claims of Native ancestry and medicine wheels (etc) is bad enough, but they're full on charging for pay to pray as well. They promote events based around a "Celtic Year" that's nothing more than the generic Neopagan Wheel of the Year, but they describe the calendar as being "like a native American medicine wheel." There's a reference to explain this at the bottom of the page:

"A "Medicine Wheel" is the way that a number of American tribes organize knowledge through the use of sophisticated circular patterns of analogy, in which each category of knowledge being arranged is assigned its point on the wheel of directions.  See, for example, Leo Rutherford, The View through the Medicine Wheel: Shamanic Maps of How the Universe Works, O Books, 2008, ISBN 978-1-84694-108-5.  Rutherford gained much of his understanding from the teachings of the Deer Tribe. On the printed page,  the convention is often to orient such wheels the way we do maps, with North at the top of the page, but of course this is only a convention."

Which doesn't sound too convincing itself.

For their next event the Celtic Tantra people are charging up to £250 per head so this doesn't come cheap. These events are held at place called Hazel Hill Wood, which styles itself as a "conservation retreat" and sells all kind of appropriative ceremonies (including ones run by their "Medicine Woman" friend, Agatha Manouche. Her next event is called "Ways of Women, Ways of Sisterhood, Medicine Women"). There are events held elsewhere too, up in Cumbra (the Lake Districts) and down in Devon where Marta and Robert are based.

There isn't a whole lot of detail about what they get up to but I think given the dodgy-sounding claims it's worth looking into a bit more. None of what they're saying as far as their "Celtic Year" is reliable so I doubt anything else is.

[Defend the Sacred]

Not Celtic. Not Hindu Tantra. Just Nuage white people charging money to watch other white people have sex in the woods and do a bit of Neo-Wicca. Typical pseudo-Tantric, pseudo-Celtic, Nuage exploitation.

[Laurel]

[Sees "Rajneesh," closes page]

Seriously?

[debbieredbear]

Notes
1A "Medicine Wheel" is the way that a number of American tribes organize knowledge through the use of sophisticated circular patterns of analogy, in which each category of knowledge being arranged is assigned its point on the wheel of directions.  See, for example, Leo Rutherford, The View through the Medicine Wheel: Shamanic Maps of How the Universe Works, O Books, 2008, ISBN 978-1-84694-108-5. Rutherford gained much of his understanding from the teachings of the Deer Tribe. On the printed page,  the convention is often to orient such wheels the way we do maps, with North at the top of the page, but of course this is only a convention

Ick ick ick We have at least one thread on the Deer Tribe founded by the late Harley Reagan. Ick.

[JeelyPiece]

Just a correction: It's Marta Emmitt and Robert Osborn. Googling the names brought up a previous thread here on NAFPS.

[Qadir]

Celtic Tantra...fraudulent???    hi...I would just like to say if you feel the same as Jeely Piece...its great that theres a website just for you...lets the rest of us know where you are.   If you agree with her that Celtic Tantra sounds dodgy, even though you havnt been to a workshop...listen to her...and dont come to a workshop.   if your heart is closed...just dont come and keep reading the kind of stuff on this site.
Of course...I have been attending their workshops over a period of...maybe six or seven years.  i have attended all the seasonal festivals and I can say honestly that it has become the most important work I have been involved in...for this time.   I also have been associated with an intensive retreat  centre for 25 years before  this period.  It seems now that I am moving on to something else....but I would like to whole heartedly support Robert and Marta and confirm that their work in creating a sacred space for many, many people who are travelling sometimes through difficult episodes in their lives should not be lightly labelled as dodgy.
I can say also that I have found their workshops, though sometimes not easy, utterly transformative.   I would not recommend it to everyone...you have to be open hearted and you have to be willing to risk yourself a little...but the way they work is in such a gentle fashion...change will come to you...if thats what you want.
Qadir

[Smart Mule]

Hi Qadir

Care to site some legit sources as to its authenticity?

[Qadir]

Me, I am legitimate.  I dare say many, many others would agree with me...but just cannot be bothered with folk who sit in their armchairs...criticising without knowing and doing...which must be a form of entertainment...and they are welcome to it.

[JeelyPiece]

Celtic Tantra...fraudulent???    hi...I would just like to say if you feel the same as Jeely Piece...its great that theres a website just for you...lets the rest of us know where you are.   If you agree with her that Celtic Tantra sounds dodgy, even though you havnt been to a workshop...listen to her...and dont come to a workshop.   if your heart is closed...just dont come and keep reading the kind of stuff on this site.
Of course...I have been attending their workshops over a period of...maybe six or seven years.  i have attended all the seasonal festivals and I can say honestly that it has become the most important work I have been involved in...for this time.   I also have been associated with an intensive retreat  centre for 25 years before  this period.  It seems now that I am moving on to something else....but I would like to whole heartedly support Robert and Marta and confirm that their work in creating a sacred space for many, many people who are travelling sometimes through difficult episodes in their lives should not be lightly labelled as dodgy.
I can say also that I have found their workshops, though sometimes not easy, utterly transformative.   I would not recommend it to everyone...you have to be open hearted and you have to be willing to risk yourself a little...but the way they work is in such a gentle fashion...change will come to you...if thats what you want.
Qadir

If you could point to what, exactly, is "Celtic" or "Tantric" about what they're selling that would be great. Because I don't see it. And to be clear, I don't see it because it's not there. I'm really not being closed hearted on that, it's just how it is.

You might find it "utterly transformative" and you might be happy to sink a vast amount of time and money into supporting these people. Cool. But it doesn't change the fact that what they're selling is nothing more than the usual, dressed up in Irish knotwork with a sidehelping of cliche.

[Defend the Sacred]

Me, I am legitimate. 

A legitimate what?

[Smart Mule]

Me, I am legitimate.  I dare say many, many others would agree with me...but just cannot be bothered with folk who sit in their armchairs...criticising without knowing and doing...which must be a form of entertainment...and they are welcome to it.

By legitimate I mean historical reference to these, ehem, 'activities'.

[Defend the Sacred]

Also, Qadir, never come to a Native-owned board and assume anyone even has an armchair to sit in, let alone that they live ignorant, arrogant, privileged lives like, say, people in London who have the the money to waste on pay-to-pray sex cults. As in, people like you, who also has the time to come insult people who are educated and experienced enough to call bullshit on your cultish escapism.

This board is an online communication tool for veteran activists and elder spiritual people who are very active in our communities and the world at large. People here have lives you know nothing about. Take some time to learn what this board is about, or you will be shown the door.

[Qadir]

i'm off out for the evening...so cannot give further detail...sorry.

[Smart Mule]

i'm off out for the evening...so cannot give further detail...sorry.

Well then I look forward to reading your sources tomorrow.

[AClockworkWhite]

That's enough Twinkie for a whole box of Hostess. "legit celtic tantra..." It just rolls off the tongue.