Author Topic: hello. my name is Carsten. (another racist meltdown thread)  (Read 23055 times)

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2013, 05:03:14 pm »
I know how easy it is to get sucked in to the lies of the exploiters. I´ve been there! And I am sure there is stuff out on the Internet that I have posted, or old brochures with my words in them, that would make me cringe!! At that time, I didn´t know better.

Exactly. Most of us have made mistakes at some point. Many of us do this work to make amends for the mistakes we made when we were ignorant.  So then it comes down to what someone does when they are educated about it.

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Since you´re talking about spirit – I, personally, believe that at this moment, standing on this crossroad, is the first time spirit finds you and asks you to choose….

Good point.

I get so upset when i try to explain and no one listen,

I am so grateful that you continue to educate people. I don't know what we'd do without you.

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I will be doing lecture on the Whitestone massarce today and i dreamth all night and woke up with tears in my eye
I could hear my grandma screaming Ina! Ina! as they shot her and to think she was only nine years old but she lived
so I could be here today. I just dont think people understand what it is to be native today. It is grief, it is always having
to forgive and always looking to have that compassion and on some days it is gets hard. Thank you again for reminding me
to be compassionate.

Strength to you at your lecture today, and gratitude for your brave grandmother, for surviving, for allowing you and your relatives to be born. I don't even know what to say about the horror she lived through, or the responsibility you carry from your ancestors, and for your people now. You are doing such valuable, important work. It makes me very angry to see people come here and not give you the respect you deserve. I find it hard to be compassionate when people act that way.

The non-Natives who get fixated on the romantic fantasies don't want to see the reality of being NDN; they want the hollywood, newage fantasies. I think we can tell a lot about someone by how they respond when given a look at the reality - whether they feel compassion and respect, or whether they try to use the struggles Native peoples face as a way to further exploit people.

I think that if we had no hope for people being able to change, we wouldn't do this work. Some people do change. But when I get the feeling someone is not ready to change, and maybe never will, I'm not going to bang my head against the wall.

Carsten, if you're still reading this, you are incredibly lucky that people here have been willing to engage with you. You seem to think that we should be grateful for your presence here;  perhaps people would be grateful if you were respectful and quit trying to defend offensive behaviour. But your disrespect has made me consider banning you. If you can listen and learn to be humble you can stay and listen. But if you keep disrespecting people, we're only going to put up with that for so long.

Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2013, 05:43:49 pm »
For those who wish to know what Carsten is posting here in Danish, I've used Google Translator on his post. It just seems rude to me to post in a forum that uses English, knowing that the readers most likely won't be able to read it.. so.. here it is:

I hope it is sent as PM, has little hard to see how it works.

thanks for your post. it was actually nice enough someone would just take the time to find out who I am to start with.

I'm not on a crossroad as such but at the end of a circle. I had to seek out many new age treats for several reasons, one of them is to one day write books and give lectures to warn of the danger of just that.

I am very convinced that the environment is all a gray area. there's nothing quite authentisk find here. but there are some that are more authentic than others.


I've also been through a pure hell but because of illness. it's no wonder you first fall in the claws of healer and tarot holding the so those I have met many.

also suffered intentionally paid for sessions because I was actually quite honestly use the experience tendons if I were to start writing about the things tendons in life.

Now I know that they do not like so much that I open acknowledge I have used sweat lodges and this is true not the right way to learn the stuff on,

it is also something that I do not think is correct, then one must never take money for those things.

first of all, that you are not in doubt. I do not consider sweat lodge as a shamanic. I also know Indians do not have shamans. all the core shamans and the things I have therefore very reluctant to use sweat lodges in courses and take money for it. I have even called several of them and said they should not.

I'm just so mad at new age world like you in here on the site is. I have also plenty of reason for it.

but it is not something cultural for me. my problem with New Age world is to the advantage of everyone and everything. and taking money from sick people or ignorant people and may harm them.

There are several things I want to tell you about a little more personal and deeper reflections but now I would keep it short the first time.

I would also like to discuss the topic of white may be allowed to lead sweat lodges and deltate in ceremonies. it has truly my interest in the topic. but it is just tendons.

I'm namely also have to explain a part of my life contexts only you can see the big picture of why I passed through life in the way that I am.

press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2013, 05:45:09 pm »
Earthw7, many good thoughts to you, for your lecture and for all your days here on Earth.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
« Reply #48 on: April 05, 2013, 06:04:51 pm »
Carsten, white people brought this onto their selves with their greed, dishonesty and cruelty. I was fortunate as a white person to take part in authentic ceremony back in the early 90's. I have never violated the trust placed in me for my minimal participation and I never will. My life is far different than that of Native peoples, and I can never know what they live and have lived. But, I can understand hurt, anger, and the importance of protecting what is a core importance and value, be it a Native person or any other person on this planet.

Seriously, you need to learn that trespassing on another person's heart and soul, regardless of who they are, is wrong. It does not matter what you think or feel, it is not yours to take or walk on. If you were fortunate to find some healing in the crazy world we live in, then be happy with that and leave it at that and leave all the rest of it alone.

You say you have only taken what was given to you. Nice. But you are not doing that by continuing to use it. The gift was given and received and it is over now. Done. To continue to take of it is gluttony. You may not realize this, but it is. From my personal experience I can say this. I was fortunate, received, and then I left and I do not keep taking of it. If you want to give of what you were given, then stop using it and start protecting it. That is the only way to give back of what you were given. You don't seem to understand that whatever you were given to heal yourself has expired now. It's over. Now it is only time to protect it, so the millions of exploiters don't destroy it. It doesn't belong to you and it never did. It came and went and you trying to continue with it is not good. It is exploiting something special, and it is tarnishing what was given.

Leave it alone now. I think Freija is right that you are at this forum because you reached a crossroad. Continue as you are doing, and it will not be good for you or others. Learn here in this forum, be grateful for what came to you, let it go and leave it alone, and it will be good for you and all others.

You cannot pretend to be what you are not. You cannot pretend to have knowledge on ceremony you are not part of. You cannot keep doing what you are doing, it is harmful. You are being told this now. That it's come and gone and to continue with it as you are, is only going to harm. What is your choice now.. that's up to you, but I hope you put aside your self, selfishness, of what *you* think and *you* feel and instead, look to what is real. The reality is that these ceremonies and ways are not yours, do not belong to you and you have no rights to them.



press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
« Reply #49 on: April 05, 2013, 06:12:34 pm »
Carsten, seriously? How can anyone who respects, read a declaration of war like this, and then think it's Ok to just not abide by it. That is not respect and as far as being racist, as long as you continue to group Native peoples (or any peoples) into some sort of ideology in your mind, then you are being racist. It's better to just admit to the fact than try and pretend it isn't so. I have many racist moments in my life. The best I can do is recognize it as such and learn and go forward hopefully being a better human being because of it.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Epiphany

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Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #50 on: April 05, 2013, 07:05:53 pm »
Thank you Earth for everything, I think on your words often, appreciate all I am learning.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2013, 09:01:59 pm »
For those who wish to know what Carsten is posting here in Danish, I've used Google Translator on his post. It just seems rude to me to post in a forum that uses English, knowing that the readers most likely won't be able to read it.. so.. here it is:

... ... ...

I'm not on a crossroad as such but at the end of a circle. I had to seek out many new age treats for several reasons, one of them is to one day write books and give lectures to warn of the danger of just that.

Here comes yet more motives - to be seen as an authority, and yet another line of B.S. It's B.S. in any language.

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I am very convinced that the environment is all a gray area.

No, it's not. Always looking for the loopholes, like any exploiter.

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there's nothing quite authentisk find here. but there are some that are more authentic than others.

Sorry we didn't fulfill your Dances With Wolves / Avatar / Man Called Horse fantasies. We aren't looking for a white chief.

Your suffering is no more special than anyone else here. How dare you assume you are the only one who has suffered. You have not tried to find out anything about what people here have been through. And when you did find out a bit about the poverty on one of the reservations, you dismissed it, "I am not interested in that." That's sociopathic.

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I would also like to discuss the topic of white may be allowed to lead sweat lodges and deltate in ceremonies. it has truly my interest in the topic. but it is just tendons.

Typical. Still looking for loopholes. Hopes that contacting a white person privately will get him the agreement and support to violate boundaries. Still carries the racist belief that one person who claimed to be NDN could give him permission to violate the community consensus of entire tribes/nations and coalitions of tribes/nations. Shocking and, yes, racist.

Offline Carsten

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Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2013, 09:24:27 pm »
Carsten, seriously? How can anyone who respects, read a declaration of war like this, and then think it's Ok to just not abide by it. That is not respect and as far as being racist, as long as you continue to group Native peoples (or any peoples) into some sort of ideology in your mind, then you are being racist. It's better to just admit to the fact than try and pretend it isn't so. I have many racist moments in my life. The best I can do is recognize it as such and learn and go forward hopefully being a better human being because of it.

first of.  I read this years after I was in the ceremonies with hakita.  however he mentioned a meeting with his elders where he was prayed for and told to go home and open up for us here to be able to learn about sweats and take part in them.

so when I found this on net with statements from both him and other people and I could read this , see if I can find link again ,  what he said make complete sense to me.  I knew then why he did it.  solved a few questions I had about it for me reading this.  that proved what he said was correct. 


however lets imagine I never been involved with anything native american before in my life and then finds that declaration and reads it . 

its a declaration of war.   spiritual war.  would you think  its a sane decision to just accept  something found on the net with that headline.   spiritual war never lead to anything good did  it.


I at that time years  ago picked a side in this matter  after reading it.  I did this using brain and intuition.    I also discussed it whenever the chance where there ,  as instance in the shamanic forum ,  because it is a important matter. 


Offline Carsten

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Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2013, 09:30:44 pm »
these things are always interesting.   you can find information in a book by demand jacobsen.  she is critical about new age shamanism and went around the world for years to study shamanism . 

one of the books I consider most complete works  to date  is the book she wrote  "shamanisme mellem ånder og mennesker "

do not know the english title but there is as said lots of useful information in that book. 

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2013, 09:35:21 pm »
Sorry, Carsten, but I do not trust your advice on this nor your determination to post in the pinned threads. I'm moving your comments to your intro thread.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
« Reply #55 on: April 05, 2013, 09:36:27 pm »
Carsten, stop creating tangents in the pinned threads. I'm moving this to your intro.

Offline Carsten

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Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
« Reply #56 on: April 05, 2013, 10:01:25 pm »
by the way.  I Am not white.  I look exactly like a person from Greenland and everyone I meet from Greenland thinks I am coming from over there.   

I got a fair share of judgement  on my person as well here.  because racism does exist here as well. 

I am not white  but my family has been here for long time.  we where here from at least  the year  1200 and for some reason I am dark skinned.   

why would western people also automatically have to be white.  with blue eyes.,   curly blond hair.   

lets define racism before using the term as insult. 

racism is when you  pass judgement on people based on  skin colour , political believes ,  or religious believes.   in the sense its a negative  judgement . 

this is actually considered bad enough to be illegal to write hateful comments  or commit hatecrimes.  if a person here writes in the net using racist as a insult.  well he can be taken legal actions against . 

its not a word to using as a insult.  neither a word you should twist into something its not.,  its a clear definition  and you cant use this word against me.


to be honest.  why hajita did not think  it was okay to ban every white person from being taking part in sweats was exactly because he saw it as a form of racism.  this I agree with. 

it is like I am to be starting telling your people that converted to stop using the church.  because I am white and this is my religion. but that is a clear legal definition off racism  this would be very bad to do so. 

in which way do I suddenly become a racist  by your logic ?


Epiphany

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Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
« Reply #57 on: April 05, 2013, 10:02:35 pm »
these things are always interesting.   you can find information in a book by demand jacobsen.  she is critical about new age shamanism and went around the world for years to study shamanism . 

one of the books I consider most complete works  to date  is the book she wrote  "shamanisme mellem ånder og mennesker "

do not know the english title but there is as said lots of useful information in that book.

This book by Merete Demant Jakobsen?

http://www.amazon.com/Shamanism-Traditional-Contemporary-Approaches-Mastery/dp/1571811958/ref=la_B001K8IZA8_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365199236&sr=1-1

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
« Reply #58 on: April 05, 2013, 10:23:38 pm »
by the way.  I Am not white. 
... ... ...

why would western people also automatically have to be white.  with blue eyes.,   curly blond hair.   
... ... ...

because I am white and this is my religion.

Wow. Still can't keep your story straight.

A Dutch person with darker coloring is still Dutch, and is still non-Native. How stupid do you really think we are? 

Whether we say "white" or "non-Native" or "European"... we're still talking about cultural outsiders with no right to Indigenous ceremonies. Having a bit more melanin, as do, say, Italians, changes nothing.

Only privileged people get to decide whether they "identify" as white or not.  It is the height of arrogance to compare being a Euro with slightly darker coloring to being a Person of Color in a racist place like America. The ignorance just doesn't stop with this one.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 10:27:32 pm by Kathryn »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2013, 11:51:35 pm »
Carsten has been given a time out for his unrelenting racism towards respected members of the board, towards NDNs in general, lying, and his refusal to quit dominating pinned threads and creating tangents about how he thinks his opinion is worth more than entire Nations and coalitions of Nations of Indigenous Peoples. If he has any useful info about the frauds he defends, he can email it to the admin team. He would have to apologize and demonstrate he understands what he did wrong before we would consider letting him return.