NAFPS Forum

General => Frauds => Topic started by: Carsten on April 03, 2013, 05:06:12 pm

Title: hello. my name is Carsten. (another racist meltdown thread)
Post by: Carsten on April 03, 2013, 05:06:12 pm
hello.  my name is Carsten.

I can offer only to help the boards with people in Denmark , which is where I Live.   but I happened to come across the forums because a person I happen to know in person was questioned in a thread in here so it was the main reason I joined to speak up for him on his behalf , lost contact with him  myself  otherwise I could have made him aware of the thread in question.

if any one needs information about people living in Denmark.  new age gurus,.  healers and such.  I can offer to look into it from here.

also if people claims to be Native American  and have relation to here , I Might be able to find out something , since I know people with affiliations , with tribes in mostly Lakota  rez. 

it wont be much I can do but I do support the agenda of the forum ,   all I can say in general is there is  very very few legit people in the new age realm here in Denmark. 

most are frauds.  only people with approved license to practice ,  zone therapy and herbal medicine is to be considered trustworthy here.  and these are easy to find out about.  the state approved  them and know them like a doctor also is easy to check .

feel free to ask for my help.  however since I was just speaking on behalf of someone I Know then I wont be so dedicated to reading the forums ,  most takes places elsewhere in the world too so really not something I will be reading trough everyday however you can PM me if you need information  which I can access more easy from Denmark ,  know the people or can check or call people even otherwise I wont be using the forums that much.

regards, Carsten. 
Title: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 01:42:50 pm
it is sad but to be honest I think its a war you can not win.,

you know I always wanted to go to the lakota reservation and other parts of the world to meet different cultures.   now in age 40 and how the world looks now I think its too late ,  only thing I would gain was to see broken cultures and maybe see parts that still exist but are forced to either die out or adapt to the modern world.

you can never stop new age frauds taking advantage of native american spirituality .   you can maybe educate people so they wont fall for it.

Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 02:45:34 pm
it is sad but to be honest I think its a war you can not win.,

you know I always wanted to go to the lakota reservation and other parts of the world to meet different cultures.   now in age 40 and how the world looks now I think its too late ,  only thing I would gain was to see broken cultures and maybe see parts that still exist but are forced to either die out or adapt to the modern world.

you can never stop new age frauds taking advantage of native american spirituality .   you can maybe educate people so they wont fall for it.

I sorry but why would you make this statement!  :o only thing I would gain was to see broken cultures
I happen to live on my reservation in MY HOMELANDS! I love my home lands,
I am not broken! nor I am NOT dying out!
You so need an education on the tribal people of this land. I dont mean to get upset but is the white folk keep trying to
kill us again. We are Bicultural today because we are very adaptable people which show or strength and braverly of my people.
I live my culture everyday and know my way of life and my people are the fastest growing population
in both North and South Dakota. Plus my people still speak their langauge and live their culture.
We know that there are problem brought on the the americans but we know that going back to the culture
is a way to heal ourselves as a people. We have a total Lakota language immersion program for our children because
our language is important and culture is something we live each day.
Let see i am bout 20 years older than you so if you think 40 is old then i would look at myself and get back to living.
I know we will never stop the lost ones who are looking for a center and those who take advantage of them but
if we do not stand up and say no then we are at fault. I say no to abuse and fraud.
I am HERE I am ALIVE ! I am Lakota and Dakota! 
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Ingeborg on April 04, 2013, 04:15:45 pm

Hej Carsten,

na sodan, du kender Winterhawk flygtig? A loose contact, or even a lost contact?

You're doing quite nice PR jobs for someone who's supposed to be a 'lost contact':

http://spiralinear.org/forum/discussion/835/native-american-other-tribal-myths-/p1

Quote
Carsten April 2012
I met a african native american a while ago here. really amazing that you can find such person right here in this town but I did.

we talk about things but I never spoke with him about myths or any really spiritual matters. and havent seen him for a while.

now I know that there is a lot of stuff on the net. and most is properly just false information. think one has to meet someone from a specific culture and get the insight orally.

I do know the legend of the pipe and how it was brought to the natives of the lakota tribe. this I know for a fact is correct and its described in lots of books both by whites or natives themselves.

I am interested in finding genuine myths legends stories etc etc from all tribal cultures but most my interest is in the lakota tribe. I relate to them more since I met a person once that thought me some few things and I also relate to the inuit culture since it looks a bit alike and is located closer to me. greendland being a part of Denmark .

can anyone here help me find stuff to look into that is verified and genuine ? not so much if its from one culture or a other just more that its known to be original teachings from aboriginals , africans , natives around the plains and off course from inuit and also more exotic indians around the world . aztek or these from peru and such.

been into search for some insight in these things for a while but problem is that most stuff is written and understood by whites. and not given by the people themselves .

thanks for any pointers or helpful links

ps, how are all doing btw ?


Carsten April 2012
this guy here lives in my town http://en-gb.facebook.com/nomad.winterhawk

he is african native american. . wrote a book about history which is what we discuss and the medicine wheel and dreams we been into.

I have not met him for a while and I would like to study some more on tribal cultures where african culture and traditional lakota teachings are most vital for me.

but all myths . all spiritual believes are useful. in this context.

and thanks. I been reading the forum once in a while but not had time to post anything really the last couple of months.


Carsten April 2012
"Dry Lips" said:
I had to google "African Native American". Never heard about it before!

me being only interested in the lakota tribe I was not even aware of that either before I met him. but its interesting and gives a more wide picture of how things relate over there.


Carsten May 2012
I got a hold of his book (again) from the library Circular thought. I can sense its correct and relates to what I been told by other natives I met. but the more myths and things I find around from various cultures would be helpful because he covers a lot of stuff in the book.

btw its a good book. you should take time to read it. author nomad winterhawk. title: Circular Thought.

Emphasis mine


And is this you, too?

http://www.nordisk-forum.dk/viewtopic.php?f=72&p=463434

This is the "Nordic Arms' Forum.

Entry by user: Cmay, dd. torsdag, 10. januar 2013 19:51

Quote
Tilmeldt: 6. januar 2013
Indlæg: 551
Interesser: overlevelse i naturen.
Geografisk sted: vejle omegn

det er rigtigt nok vi her føler os meget adskilt fra naturen . jeg har mødt flere indianer herhjemme. nomad winterhawk har jeg snakket med over et års tid mens vi gik lufted hunde for han gik samme rute som jeg går med min hund hver dag. jeg lærte at lave sweatlodge ceremonier af en vi havde til at bo her i byen og afg hakita najin jordan . ham som boed her hed flemming og er i familie med hawk druin som jeg har været til en del kurser med. [...]

Translation:
This is right we feel closed out from nature. I have met many Indians here at home. I have talked to Nomad Winterhawk over the year while we took the dogs for a walk, and he walked the same tour as I did with my dog every day. I learned to do sweatlodge ceremonies and we lived here in this town [...] He lived here […] and was in a family with „hawk druin“ [?] when I was at some of the same courses.

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 04:59:34 pm
Oh My! Carsten it looks like you have been leading us down the wrong path.
My name is TaMakaWasteWin I am hunkpapa, Sihasapa, and Oglala Lakota
this fraud does not speak for my people.
What do you mean he was doing a sweat lodge ceremony who gave him the right?
There is a lot you have to learn, and what is an exotic indian?
I want you to know that the story (our Story) that is wrote all over the internet
and in books is not the whole story. 
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 05:47:41 pm
yes this is me.  I was the person writing these post years ago.   I can give you short detail  about the natives I met here since you seem to be interested in that. 

nomad is a lost contact.  moved away half a year ago or so.  cant remember. maybe a whole year.   was interested in reading his new book.  this site came up while searching and I Wondered a little about if he was legit or not or if even it was the same person I Met.    so therefor I joined.   as you can read elsewhere.

hawk druin was the first sweatlodge leader I experienced.  I would consider him "odd"   since he is only half blood and the teachings is new age fraud ,   he does work in Denmark and he is currently  involved in something personal development for dentist and worked in a hospital  but his claims to be a medicine person is highly questionable.

I know a person from peru ,  he cant remember anything from his first two years but born native peru indian and is just as cultural Danish as all other Danes are.  nothign special about hom other than he is from native herritage .  he works here and has no interest in his own culture and try to blend in with us danes.   i count him as native indian.  the people I met from greenland I count as inuit. 

then there was a half blood canadian indian here in my town as well ,   he did not take interest in that however and was only  half blood but did have relations to family in canada  he moved back to .  he was nice.  he did instruct me in running sweat lodges ,  however it was in spite I think because he had a problem with hakita najin jordan wanting to run a sweat lodge seminar .   

adn off course then I have met him ,  hakita najin jordan ,  is the lakota spokes person here in denmark and he and his wife lives in copenhagen and does sweatlodges and tell about their culture  here in denmark ,   I know the people who are adopted by  him ,  which was after the lakota declaration of war  against exploites of native american spitituality  went back home and thought non whites  the ceremony , sweatlodge . as a protest.

he is the only legit full blood I know around here.   I am not aware of any other in Denmark that him but everyone knows who he is since he was a major influence in this friendship community  , tipi,.dk. http://www.tipi.dk/

I never made any money on doing ceremonies.  I spend money instead.  I never pretended to be something I am not.

hakita najin jordan was not exactly popular for making this sweat lodge seminar either.   however for reasons too many to start listing I did pick up on this  and used for personal benefits healthwise but never  ever as a commercial aspect.

its friends healing us self.  no money involved.   you might not like it.   but then your beef is with a lakota spokes person  teaching us this and not me.

however if I once found out haikta was  a fake.  which I find not likely.   then I would reconsider the experiences I had with this with that in mind.

nothing secret about me.   what do you want to know  ?

Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 06:01:44 pm
it is sad but to be honest I think its a war you can not win.,

you know I always wanted to go to the lakota reservation and other parts of the world to meet different cultures.   now in age 40 and how the world looks now I think its too late ,  only thing I would gain was to see broken cultures and maybe see parts that still exist but are forced to either die out or adapt to the modern world.

you can never stop new age frauds taking advantage of native american spirituality .   you can maybe educate people so they wont fall for it.

I sorry but why would you make this statement!  :o only thing I would gain was to see broken cultures
I happen to live on my reservation in MY HOMELANDS! I love my home lands,
I am not broken! nor I am NOT dying out!
You so need an education on the tribal people of this land. I dont mean to get upset but is the white folk keep trying to
kill us again. We are Bicultural today because we are very adaptable people which show or strength and braverly of my people.
I live my culture everyday and know my way of life and my people are the fastest growing population
in both North and South Dakota. Plus my people still speak their langauge and live their culture.
We know that there are problem brought on the the americans but we know that going back to the culture
is a way to heal ourselves as a people. We have a total Lakota language immersion program for our children because
our language is important and culture is something we live each day.
Let see i am bout 20 years older than you so if you think 40 is old then i would look at myself and get back to living.
I know we will never stop the lost ones who are looking for a center and those who take advantage of them but
if we do not stand up and say no then we are at fault. I say no to abuse and fraud.
I am HERE I am ALIVE ! I am Lakota and Dakota!

wll I seen some documentaries about poverty in the rez. know from people who been there and been adopted and lived there for long time its not the culture you might have hoped to see that you will see.

I honestly have no need to go see poverty in the US.  I feel very sorry for what happen to native americans.  but I feel sorry for all poor people as well.   

 I was meaning in the words I said a  very poor people ,  as far as I know the native americans are among the most poor people in the us.

have no need to go see that.  poverty was maybe the right word instead of broken. 
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 06:08:15 pm
Wow Carsten. Busted!

So you, a white man, feel a desperate need to learn Lakota ceremony, and now claim to have been taught how to lead sweats (by a fraud). And you came here and gave us a different story. Your not the first culture vulture to think they can show up and fool the "exotic indians" [sic]. You should be ashamed of yourself. 
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 06:13:31 pm
you might not like it.   but then your beef is with a lakota spokes person  teaching us this and not me.

You have committed offenses by supporting frauds and trying to lead ceremonies you have no right to. You have shown you do not understand who can and can't represent Native people. What you are engaging in is called "blame-shifting" - you blame the people whose culture you are harming for your own choice to do harmful things.

You mention the Declaration of War, so you can't even claim ignorance here. It sounds to me like you knew that the consensus of Lakota people is that the ways are not to be given to white outsiders - and you are a white outsider - and you chose to do it anyway. You chose personal gratification and illusion over respect.

You have disrespected the very people you are trying to emulate. Do you have any idea how hurtful and wrong that is?
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 06:15:42 pm
Oh My! Carsten it looks like you have been leading us down the wrong path.
My name is TaMakaWasteWin I am hunkpapa, Sihasapa, and Oglala Lakota
this fraud does not speak for my people.
What do you mean he was doing a sweat lodge ceremony who gave him the right?
There is a lot you have to learn, and what is an exotic indian?
I want you to know that the story (our Story) that is wrote all over the internet
and in books is not the whole story.

I never lead anyone down a wrong path. 

I never took money for making sweats for anyone else.  I use this to heal myself and even spend money on it. 

hakita najin jordan should be legit. 

if he is not.  then native american friendship community might want to know about it.

however it does not change the fact I been given a way to heal myself.   spirit might tell you more about who I am and why I do what I do and did.

I am not taking money. I am not claiming to be anything I Am not.

its a tiny part of a other culture ,  the sweat I had a chance to do for myself.   

you do not even know half of what I been through in this life.   but I can tell you one thing.

new age frauds is something I do not like very much ,  I was retired  because I got very sick  around sixteen years ago.

I spend tons of money trying to get better.   

then I got this.   I used it.  I am now better.  not cured.  however better.

no point in time can you point your finger at me for doing anything at all,   that your own people did not do worse with ceremonies .

I am not the one charging money for it.  I am not the one claiming to be medicine man and conduct ceremonies. 

its half bloods , or even full bloods coming here to my country who does that.

now you have a problem with me for trying to heal myself ?

you know albert white hat then , being ogala ?
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 06:58:56 pm
you might not like it.   but then your beef is with a lakota spokes person  teaching us this and not me.

You have committed offenses by supporting frauds and trying to lead ceremonies you have no right to. You have shown you do not understand who can and can't represent Native people. What you are engaging in is called "blame-shifting" - you blame the people whose culture you are harming for your own choice to do harmful things.

You mention the Declaration of War, so you can't even claim ignorance here. It sounds to me like you knew that the consensus of Lakota people is that the ways are not to be given to white outsiders - and you are a white outsider - and you chose to do it anyway. You chose personal gratification and illusion over respect.

You have disrespected the very people you are trying to emulate. Do you have any idea how hurtful and wrong that is?

I found this after the seminar.  I was told that he was instructed by elders to teach this and it was supposed to be in one semiar ,  it did not make profit  but however cost was covered.

it was not popular either in the Danish native american friendship community. 

this is why a other ,  half blood offered to teach me for free.

so I got it a strange way. 

but let me ask you this then ,  why do you think I needed to do this and what do I use it for ?

you have no idea who or what I am .

I do understand your pride of your ceremonies and culture.  I Am not taking more than someone from your culture gave me.   I use it for healing of myself.  not for personal gain  neither money.

I do also understand its a sensitive topic. 

however please , consider asking spirit ,  why did they lead me down the path I was .

you have to understand one thing first .   that person I was at the time ,  would do anything to get better.  no question .

but also the person I Am now reflects about the life I had.   I do want to warn others about new age in particular.

I can not ,  and repeat not  claim in anyway that I was given any special insight in native american culture or anything but in fragments from various people I met that are maybe some of them genuine and maybe some of them not. have a idea of something.   

I NEVER claim to be a medicine person. I Never claim to have had anything other than the few instructions I had  in the sweatlodge  by two persons. 

I Never ever take money for it but use it among friends  for healing.  even pay for the whole thing my self. 

as I said already hakita was not very popular for doing this. however he did this in spite of this lakota declaration war on spiritual exploiters  of lakotas because ,  he is married to a white person.  he know white adopted people who also run sweats.  sundancers.    how can he support the idea that white people cant  be part of this ,  with respect off course. 

however without the ceremony  I could not heal myself like I did.   wont tell you what I suffering from  but I can assure you that  if you had the same condition  then other peoples accept would not be the most important thing  and I am grateful  for spirit to have taken me down this path. 

but you can as said go speak to spirit about this .  then come back.   I have no problems with my life or what I been through  and know deep inside that I never ever insulted spirit by  trying to heal myself neither did I ever exploit your sacred ceremony. 

but I had to do it a other way than usually would be more acceptable to your people.  at that time  I cant go there.  I cant find anyone with a open hart at that time ,  that could have shown my ANYTHING that could have healed my this way.

had I for some reason met a other person.  that had something with same healing.  well....then I had picked that up instead. 

go here http://www.tipi.dk/
join and tell them your concerns with this matter. 

they would know exactly who hakita najin jordan and his wife marianne is. 

you can take it up with the person teaching me this instead.  now sure he still is alive but they will know  be able to point you to him . .  but you can at least  get this out of this conversation that I Have as said nothing to hide.  no reason to.

however I would be happy if you do ask spirit first in this matter.   , not as in a general matter but in my case. this case.    then see if spirit would maybe explain you why sometimes things are a other way than you find acceptable.

all I am asking for.   let spirit be in on this.   before you assume anything about me , as a person or pass judgement on me or my actions in this life.

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: loudcrow on April 04, 2013, 07:44:09 pm
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=69722178
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 08:05:11 pm
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=69722178
yes it seem to be hakita najin jordans profile. 

cant confirm all the information in it but some of it.   need picture to verify  it is him but the most of it is well known facts about him .

they founded danish/lakota friendship community .,   everyone knows him  in that forum.  he had a major influence on this community and all people who been in the US with tribes  would know him too .  they all know each other.

he was old when he did this seminar I am talking about.  the last actually.   then he stopped. 
I did not know he was dead but could have guessed it because he was so old as he was. 

as he was a sundancer each year its held.  in rosebud.   there would be someone knowing him here I would imagine. 

he had the scars to prove that in anycase. 

 its a long time ago. ten years maybe . 

there was a documentary made on the rosebud reservation too ,  which he had a hand in the making off .

 anyone from rosebud who might know him then  ?


Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 08:23:57 pm
so you seen a document of Pine Ridge  ::)and made the decision we are all in the same boat
Remember there 14 Lakota-Dakota-Nakota reservation plus nine Canadian Provence of
the Lakota-Dakota-Nakota Nation each have their own way. Why do White people judge
and believe everything from Pine Ridge? maybe its white thing! I am from the Standing Rock Reservation
and very proud of that fact. The land of the Hunkpapa and Shiasapa.
If you know anything-OH WAIT YOU DONT!
Each tribe is different economically so you cant make a general statement that we are all
poor, the Seminole own all the Hard Rock Hotel across the world.
I cant believe you would make racist statement like that but wanting to know about us.
As far as adoption i bet that are lying we have so many people who claim adoption maybe you should
read the adoption belief of the tribes. Most who say they are adoption are not really and most likely frauds
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 08:40:46 pm
Are these your words........................................................ :o

I am aware of this issue. check out hakita najin jordans response to this .. I can tell you that he went home and made a one time event , paid for as a course where he did teach twelve people how to do a sweatlodge themselves.

this course was paid for by us attended. we got a little more from them than I can see how they can have made any money on and I do know what they got out of it since I know the people who made this possible. it was nothing that made them rich I can assure you.

I was the leader of the sweat we where supposed to run ourself. hakita left the lodge at round three at let me pour the fourth round while his wife where the firekeeper.

I met him later at a private ceremony where he did not bring his pipe and we used mine for that healing ceremony. so he has no problems with my pipe either.

I knew a native american close to where I live that told me that he did think that I needed to pay for a course to learn that so he told me before hand all I needed to know in hopes I would not waste money and time on this course.

however I knew before that course I had to be there and was supposed to be the leader of that sweat we should do ourself. spirit told me a year before.

after that event I gave a pipe to a Danish sundancer and told her that I was doing sweats myself in all modesty and privacy if people where interested in it and asked how she felt about this issue about non natives doing sweats and she thought it was a good thing I did.

then I know now a ceremonial roadchief that does'nt seem to have a problem with me doing sweats , in fact his wife told me it was something I should be doing by myself.

so......I have no problems with what I do. and can point out people that gave me permission by name with a native background if anyone asks me at a sweat where I got my knowledge and they can judge it all they want from this .

its not like I been on the rez and been adopted and had many years of training behind me but if anyone has problems with this then they can ask the persons I can point to for their reasons and also go speak to spirit about the matter.

I do however feel very very strongly about this issue and would love for new age to leave that alone. ceremony is not to be taken lightly but you can get away with lots of things if your honest. however being honest about these things in my book needs also a permission from spirit and a permission from a native american on some level if you plan to do sweats.

my opinion on this is that if you can find a person who will allow you to do this then all is fine. its not needed to be a person that are native but just a sundancer that made lots of sweats before and I feel this way because its dangerous and should not be played around with.

if someones spirit guides are native americans and they like to be honoured by performing some ceremonies and also that someone meets up with someone that can show how its done and knows this by hart then I see no problem with it no matter how white ones skin is.

what I do see a problem with is the people who blend tarot card readings and native american traditions they read in a book in a blend that is far from honest in anyway to seem more interesting to clients.

there is one really important issue at hand here as well...we NEED the native americans wisdom and how to learn to respect our earth more. that wisdom can come from just about every other tribal culture as well but we need to work along with each other regardless of skin colour or gender or age to start acting more responsible towards our nature and this needs to be done now.

I only take from the native americans what they give me . nothing else. however as said I also feel strongly about their culture and I see the things I got from them over the last fifteen years as a gift but also something I need to help protect if I see some new age guru pissing on it and we have some of these here as well. I might not be the right one to do this but if a situation comes where someone hands out a phone number for a paid for sweat done along with some new age stuff I will call them and ask them not to do this because its simply not the way it should be done.

I also was told to teach others about this and maybe even how to run sweats themselves but i did not find anyone yet that I would think where seriously dedicated yet so I did not do this yet. however I would never ever teach anything to someone I could imagine starting to charge for it and mix it with other things like healing and tarot card readings and crystals and new age stuff.

I am aware that some native americans do not agree with this tht I stand for and do . .....but as said they can then go speak to spirit about it if they have a problem with me and what I do. or ask some of the people with native background that showed me how to do this. I can point to two instructors and a few that just seems to not have problems with what I do. I wont namedrop here anymore than just hakita because he is the lakota ambassador of Denmark -.
however I also feel its a sensitive subject and we should respect their opinions those who feel things are not the way it should be. they after all just protecting something sacred .
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 08:46:45 pm
 hakita najin jordans  you hero was not a full blood he was half german
I got a report on him before he died as someone who was doing bad things in Europe
so i guess you were the bad thing.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 08:50:54 pm
According to our ways you can not run a sweat lodge ceremony until completeing four year of Sun Dance
and Four Years of Vision Quest and you must have permission, and most of all it must be done in Lakota
and you need to know the songs in Lakota for each door. Other wise you are just fooloing yourself
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 09:06:03 pm
http://www.lakotacountrytimes.com/news/2011-05-11/The_Holy_Road/Melvin_Custer_Jordan.html
well its from a newspaper article  that obitrary came from.  exactly the same.  not sure if the news paper a legit but you can tell me that then.

and yes it has to be that person.   

the reason he did teach whites , like me sweatlodges ceremonies was in fact because he did not agree with the idea that only  NA should take part in ceremonies. 

neither did he want to keep the ceremony away from us white people , he said he was told to go back home and teach us.

he said he  was told to go home and do this.  by his elders .  someone here would be able to confirm this.

this was a reaction against the lakota declaration of war against exploiters of lakota spirituality  with the demand that no whites could take part in ceremonies.

how could he do otherwise when he is married to a white woman.  and his friends , some adopted and sundancers themselve  are danish.

and that at the time for me is reasons enough for him to do this.  I can understand that  fully. 

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 09:08:39 pm
Are these your words........................................................ :o

I am aware of this issue. check out hakita najin jordans response to this .. I can tell you that he went home and made a one time event , paid for as a course where he did teach twelve people how to do a sweatlodge themselves.

this course was paid for by us attended. we got a little more from them than I can see how they can have made any money on and I do know what they got out of it since I know the people who made this possible. it was nothing that made them rich I can assure you.

I was the leader of the sweat we where supposed to run ourself. hakita left the lodge at round three at let me pour the fourth round while his wife where the firekeeper.

I met him later at a private ceremony where he did not bring his pipe and we used mine for that healing ceremony. so he has no problems with my pipe either.

I knew a native american close to where I live that told me that he did think that I needed to pay for a course to learn that so he told me before hand all I needed to know in hopes I would not waste money and time on this course.

however I knew before that course I had to be there and was supposed to be the leader of that sweat we should do ourself. spirit told me a year before.

after that event I gave a pipe to a Danish sundancer and told her that I was doing sweats myself in all modesty and privacy if people where interested in it and asked how she felt about this issue about non natives doing sweats and she thought it was a good thing I did.

then I know now a ceremonial roadchief that does'nt seem to have a problem with me doing sweats , in fact his wife told me it was something I should be doing by myself.

so......I have no problems with what I do. and can point out people that gave me permission by name with a native background if anyone asks me at a sweat where I got my knowledge and they can judge it all they want from this .

its not like I been on the rez and been adopted and had many years of training behind me but if anyone has problems with this then they can ask the persons I can point to for their reasons and also go speak to spirit about the matter.

I do however feel very very strongly about this issue and would love for new age to leave that alone. ceremony is not to be taken lightly but you can get away with lots of things if your honest. however being honest about these things in my book needs also a permission from spirit and a permission from a native american on some level if you plan to do sweats.

my opinion on this is that if you can find a person who will allow you to do this then all is fine. its not needed to be a person that are native but just a sundancer that made lots of sweats before and I feel this way because its dangerous and should not be played around with.

if someones spirit guides are native americans and they like to be honoured by performing some ceremonies and also that someone meets up with someone that can show how its done and knows this by hart then I see no problem with it no matter how white ones skin is.

what I do see a problem with is the people who blend tarot card readings and native american traditions they read in a book in a blend that is far from honest in anyway to seem more interesting to clients.

there is one really important issue at hand here as well...we NEED the native americans wisdom and how to learn to respect our earth more. that wisdom can come from just about every other tribal culture as well but we need to work along with each other regardless of skin colour or gender or age to start acting more responsible towards our nature and this needs to be done now.

I only take from the native americans what they give me . nothing else. however as said I also feel strongly about their culture and I see the things I got from them over the last fifteen years as a gift but also something I need to help protect if I see some new age guru pissing on it and we have some of these here as well. I might not be the right one to do this but if a situation comes where someone hands out a phone number for a paid for sweat done along with some new age stuff I will call them and ask them not to do this because its simply not the way it should be done.

I also was told to teach others about this and maybe even how to run sweats themselves but i did not find anyone yet that I would think where seriously dedicated yet so I did not do this yet. however I would never ever teach anything to someone I could imagine starting to charge for it and mix it with other things like healing and tarot card readings and crystals and new age stuff.

I am aware that some native americans do not agree with this tht I stand for and do . .....but as said they can then go speak to spirit about it if they have a problem with me and what I do. or ask some of the people with native background that showed me how to do this. I can point to two instructors and a few that just seems to not have problems with what I do. I wont namedrop here anymore than just hakita because he is the lakota ambassador of Denmark -.
however I also feel its a sensitive subject and we should respect their opinions those who feel things are not the way it should be. they after all just protecting something sacred .

looks like something I could have wrote years ago maybe.  depends on where you found it.  or if its altered in anyway,  since I only read the first two lines and think it might be me.  I can usually tell my own writing style yes. 

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 04, 2013, 09:12:52 pm
nope i just copied and pasted it from a site did not change a thing
from this site http://shamanportal.org/forum/shamanism-f1/are-our-elders-backing-away-t726.html
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 09:29:05 pm
hakita najin jordans  you hero was not a full blood he was half german
I got a report on him before he died as someone who was doing bad things in Europe
so i guess you were the bad thing.

not my hero. I did like him as a person but met him couple of times ,  not enough to become a personal friend though.   
but as said before in this thread he was not popular around here for doing it either.  this was why a other native ,  instructed me for free before going to this seminar.  he did not like the idea ,  or hakita . 

well at the time I took part ,  only after years after when I got internet I found out the lakota declaration of war against exploiteres of spirituality so then it all made sense what he had said about being told to go home and teach us and open up for it for whites. 

its many many years ago all this happened.   
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Ingeborg on April 04, 2013, 09:35:29 pm
yes this is me.  I was the person writing these post years ago.

Thanks for the confirmation.

But really, we've seen a lot of truths twisted by defenders of frauds and frauds, but this is getting simply ridiculous! You wrote those posts years ago?

One was written in April 2012, the other on Jan 13, 2013!
The latter was posted in a forum you only joined a week prior to that.

I don't know what you believe we think or know about Europe... Let's put it like that: we do know that this is the year 2013 in Denmark as well as in the rest of Europe and the USA.

Your evasiveness does not do you any good, plus it makes me wonder how many "years" ago you wrote the text earthw7 found  ;D .

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: used2bnaf on April 04, 2013, 09:43:14 pm
hello.  my name is Carsten.

I can offer only to help the boards with people in Denmark , which is where I Live.   but I happened to come across the forums because a person I happen to know in person was questioned in a thread in here so it was the main reason I joined to speak up for him on his behalf , lost contact with him  myself  otherwise I could have made him aware of the thread in question.

if any one needs information about people living in Denmark.  new age gurus,.  healers and such.  I can offer to look into it from here.

also if people claims to be Native American  and have relation to here , I Might be able to find out something , since I know people with affiliations , with tribes in mostly Lakota  rez. 

it wont be much I can do but I do support the agenda of the forum ,   all I can say in general is there is  very very few legit people in the new age realm here in Denmark. 

most are frauds.  only people with approved license to practice ,  zone therapy and herbal medicine is to be considered trustworthy here.  and these are easy to find out about.  the state approved  them and know them like a doctor also is easy to check .

feel free to ask for my help.  however since I was just speaking on behalf of someone I Know then I wont be so dedicated to reading the forums ,  most takes places elsewhere in the world too so really not something I will be reading trough everyday however you can PM me if you need information  which I can access more easy from Denmark ,  know the people or can check or call people even otherwise I wont be using the forums that much.

regards, Carsten.

Having read your orginal post slowly and thoroughly, I have a few questions.

a) why do you think a lack of money changing hands justifies your behavior?

b) why do you think that because 1 half blood says it is ok for Non NDNs to facilitate ceremony, that is is gospel truth?(stated in another post)

c) why did you come here and lie? 

Just wondering....

Truly and sincerely,
used2bnewagefraud
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 09:44:17 pm
nope i just copied and pasted it from a site did not change a thing
from this site http://shamanportal.org/forum/shamanism-f1/are-our-elders-backing-away-t726.html

yes this must be me.  I had a profile there once.   long ago ,  too.  this is are words of mine that speaks of what I reflected upon back then. 

again .  I never kept any of this a secret. 

however you might read some of the other post and maybe put two and two together and find that I am really not so keen on these things  but have my motivations  to do so.- 

I was in hell for long time.   initiations like you read about in shamanistic traditions but I can do anything with it neither find anyone that is legit that can help in any way. 

so .  it was a very very hard  time in my life.  however I am doing good now. 

I cant use these initiations or experiences for anything because we have no culture for it.   we have no teachers. 

it was personal development that was very hard and almost cost my life. 

and never even did learn or ever dared to learn to travel on the drum.   these things scare me to be honest.

core shamanism I consider very dangerous and warns about starting up on it.  however I Wish to learn from others with real tradition behind them if I can. 

this has nothing to do with sweatlodges.  neither with native americans.   just to be sure you understand the reason I was using the site in the first place.

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Ingeborg on April 04, 2013, 10:01:14 pm
yes this must be me.  I had a profile there once.   long ago ,  too.  this is are words of mine that speaks of what I reflected upon back then.

Date of post:

Quote
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:09 pm

Kaere Carsten, you're an effing liar. So please stop telling us all this B.S., willya.

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 10:33:35 pm
hello.  my name is Carsten.

I can offer only to help the boards with people in Denmark , which is where I Live.   but I happened to come across the forums because a person I happen to know in person was questioned in a thread in here so it was the main reason I joined to speak up for him on his behalf , lost contact with him  myself  otherwise I could have made him aware of the thread in question.

if any one needs information about people living in Denmark.  new age gurus,.  healers and such.  I can offer to look into it from here.

also if people claims to be Native American  and have relation to here , I Might be able to find out something , since I know people with affiliations , with tribes in mostly Lakota  rez. 

it wont be much I can do but I do support the agenda of the forum ,   all I can say in general is there is  very very few legit people in the new age realm here in Denmark. 

most are frauds.  only people with approved license to practice ,  zone therapy and herbal medicine is to be considered trustworthy here.  and these are easy to find out about.  the state approved  them and know them like a doctor also is easy to check .

feel free to ask for my help.  however since I was just speaking on behalf of someone I Know then I wont be so dedicated to reading the forums ,  most takes places elsewhere in the world too so really not something I will be reading trough everyday however you can PM me if you need information  which I can access more easy from Denmark ,  know the people or can check or call people even otherwise I wont be using the forums that much.

regards, Carsten.

Having read your orginal post slowly and thoroughly, I have a few questions.

a) why do you think a lack of money changing hands justifies your behavior?

b) why do you think that because 1 half blood says it is ok for Non NDNs to facilitate ceremony, that is is gospel truth?(stated in another post)

c) why did you come here and lie? 

Just wondering....

Truly and sincerely,
used2bnewagefraud

I never lied to you. 

please do not accuse me of being a liar.  which I am not.   I tell you completely honest about things in my past . 

you can find lots of things on the net I wrote in the past.  and I stand by these things as parts of my past as well.  relate differently to some of the things as I grown older but but never denied any of that.

but why is that so important to you in the first place what I  done with my life and wrote on the net sometime long ago ?

what do you want to know about me ?

I have no problems with answering this.   I can even be found  if you look hard enough on forums because I use my real name as screen name. 

Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 10:46:57 pm
Carsten, you know nothing. You are propagating racist stereotypes and insulting respected members of the communities you would try to steal from. Stop it. We will not put up with ignorant people spewing racist bs here.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 11:16:30 pm

I found this after the seminar.  I was told that he was instructed by elders to teach this and it was supposed to be in one semiar ,  it did not make profit  but however cost was covered.

You can't learn these ways in seminars. You are divorced and alienated from the cultural context, the relatives and spirits that give the ceremonies meaning and power. You are fooling yourself. If your health improved, it was the placebo effect. By attempting fake ceremonies from anther continent and culture you have no legitimate ties to you are offending the spirits where you are. The spirits from here probably haven't even noticed you. Pray they do not.

Quote
I Am not taking more than someone from your culture gave me. 

You were defrauded. You were not taught real ceremonies. Now you perpetuate the fraud.

Quote
however please , consider asking spirit ,  why did they lead me down the path I was .

"Spirit" led you no where. Humans have free will. You used yours to be a culture vulture.

Quote
  I do want to warn others about new age in particular.

You're either lying or a hypocrite because what you are doing is not Lakota, it is new age fraud.

Quote
I can not ,  and repeat not  claim in anyway that I was given any special insight in native american culture or anything but in fragments from various people I met that are maybe some of them genuine and maybe some of them not.

If you realize this you should also realize you have no rights to ceremony. Understanding and belonging to culture comes first. Attempts at ceremonies are meaningless without that foundation.

Quote
I NEVER claim to be a medicine person. I Never claim to have had anything other than the few instructions I had  in the sweatlodge  by two persons. 

By leading sweats and talking about it on the Internet, you are making that claim. At least you admit you have no idea what you're doing, so if anyone trusts you they are a fool.

Quote
and know deep inside that I never ever insulted spirit by  trying to heal myself neither did I ever exploit your sacred ceremony. 

It's not your place to decide if what you did was exploitative. You've now been told by people who are actually from these cultures that what you have done is exploitative, and you refuse to hear it. That is racist and arrogant.

You say over and over how this is justified because you wanted healing. That does not justify it. No one person's desire for self-improvement is more valuable than an entire culture and the integrity of that culture. By messing with this and insulting the very people entrusted with these ways you have done harm, and it will do you more harm in the long run. If you had the slightest idea of the people you have insulted at this point, you would be horrified. But you are too arrogant and racist to see it. You only care about yourself. You know nothing.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 11:18:36 pm
what do you want to know about me ?

Nothing. You've already told us more than we need to know.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 04, 2013, 11:23:27 pm
yes this must be me.  I had a profile there once.   long ago ,  too.  this is are words of mine that speaks of what I reflected upon back then.

Date of post:

Quote
Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:09 pm

Kaere Carsten, you're an effing liar. So please stop telling us all this B.S., willya.

du forstår  åbenbart dansk .  så prøv lige at slappe af og hør her . 

helt ærligt.  slap af.  jeg er ikke her for at gøre skade på jer.  i virker dælme paranoide men jeg gider heller ikke sidde her og forsvare mig mod anklager om noget jeg ikke engang aner hvad i mener med. 

jeg har aldrig løjet over for nogen som helst.   hvad vil i vide ?

vil du have mit telefon nummer og PM og snakke med mig , på dansk om de her ting.   

jeg er ikke så god til at skrive på engelsk.  men vil meget gerne have lov at forsvare mig selv nu da jeg bliver genstand for beskyldinger ,  om at lyve.

hvad mener du egentligt  har jeg løjet om ?.  det bryder jeg mig nemlig ikke om folk bare slynger ud da jeg er som regel en af de mere ærlige dansker du kommer til møde i din livstid hvis du er herfra landet. 

hvis ikke i behandler mig ordentlgit herinde så gider jeg da slet ikke spilde min tid på jer .   så må i have det godt og så  blive ved med hvad end i laver herinde .

  jeg kom her kun for at finde ud af noget om en jeg tilfældigvis kender og jeg kan heller ikke stole på de ting i siger er sandt heller. 

nu gider jeg ikke de her ting mere.  prøv at høre her .  det er så simplet.   i kan måske ikke lide mig.   men jeg er da fuldkommen ligeglad om i kan det for    jeg har ikke brug for jeres accept eller forum.   

jeg har slet intet udaf at  fortælle jer noget som helst  om mig personligt  og slet ikke hvis i bare bruger tiden på at prøve at svine mig til eller er paranoide over et eller andet. 

gå efter boldend i det mindste.  ikke manden.

klart nok ?

@rest of you not speaking danish ·

remember one thing.   never insult people who try to be nice and help you. 

you just did.   
?
what in the world makes you think I would be interested in either coming here with intent of harming you or stick around taking your abuse ?
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 04, 2013, 11:26:20 pm
Ah, and the ultimate racist parting shot. You wanted to help the poor NDNs. And now you're mad that everyone saw right through your lies and attempts at forced-teaming. And everyone should be so sad you're flouncing out of here. Sure you wanted to help. You wanted to learn how to be a more effective fraud.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 05, 2013, 12:16:39 am
I guess i am not surprised by his behavior I feel sad that people
would go though so much to steal another people culture and then
claim everyone is being mean to them. I have been Lakota since the day
i was born i can not take it off like a skin and be anything different.
people sometime hate me for my skin color and who i am and yet
people will want to steal the very core of who we are. I wonder because
being indian is hard as our elders tell us.

Title: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 01:02:45 am
I want to say i am sorry for being so upfront with you
but after i seen all the post about you I see you as the fraud
who is defending two frauds.

so I am fraud then ?

its obvious you do not like me inhere.   I think its a shame you wont just relax a little before jumping to conclusions . 

I cant argue with logic like that. 

think about it however.   did it it make sense if I was a fraud to even join here. 

you know  I really do not care enough about this so just have a nice life I really wish you people the best.  :)

im out of here , for time being I need coffee.  . 
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 01:27:18 am
Frauds join here all the time to try to fool us. It's just another day for us.
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: earthw7 on April 05, 2013, 02:22:53 am
He did not even acknowledge that what he was doing was wrong :(
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 05:54:45 am
Frauds join here all the time to try to fool us. It's just another day for us.


did you even bother to read the post you guys dig up from the net. 

if not then please do so again.   the one on spiralinear  is about me asking if anyone knows about nomad .  why do you think that is ?

could be I wanted to at the time make sure he was legit. 

it could be that I actually  was not inhere to "fool you"  but offer assistance  with information about a person ,   and eventually maybe if need be others from my country. 
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 06:50:00 am
He did not even acknowledge that what he was doing was wrong :(

I happen to not agree with you on certain things. that does not per automatic make me "wrong".    like idea that white people cant be permitted to take part in ceremonies.  I would love to discuss this issue  because it does have my concern .

I wrote this in the post ,  the one you found too ,   so its a honest interest in getting discussion started places where there might relevant people to discuss this with .

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Freija on April 05, 2013, 08:15:48 am
"Hejsan, Carsten! Jag är från Sverige och vill gärna dela med mig av mina tankar!"
 
I am fully aware of all the exploiters and frauds coming to our countries. And I know of Jordan and Marianne, I spoke to them a few times. He had quite a bad reputation here, he charged for ceremonies.

I know how easy it is to get sucked in to the lies of the exploiters. I´ve been there! And I am sure there is stuff out on the Internet that I have posted, or old brochures with my words in them, that would make me cringe!! At that time, I didn´t know better.

So I would never come down on anyone having “done wrong” in the past. When the truth hits you – and it will, eventually - it´s tough! Realizing you´ve lived a lie, maybe built your life around a scam and also – most likely - probably informed/taught/told other people these lies. It´s hard, it´s like getting out of a cult and to avoid that pain, it´s easier to crawl right back to the frauds again. Because heyyy, they love you!  ;)  Since you´re talking about spirit – I, personally, believe that at this moment, standing on this crossroad, is the first time spirit finds you and asks you to choose….

I have a hard time figuring out why you are here. At this forum? Maybe you are at the crossroad and the truth is too painful right now? (Giving you the benefit of a doubt).  There are many Native Americans in here. Some of them I know IRL, some just on the Internet. Most of them have patience, understanding and forgiveness beyond belief!  Not once has any of them ever come down on me for the crap I did back in time. Not once! They just kindly guided me in on the right path.

So – if you want respect and truth, start again. Stop defending yourself and listen. Admit that you´ve done things that are wrong, but that you are willing to change. It´s all about attitude. Trust and respect have to be earned. And if it hurts like hell to face the truth, see it as your personal Sundance. It will be worth it!

PS If it´s easier for you in Danish/Swedish, send me a PM
Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 09:10:22 am
now I a am a racist then ?  I am not talking about ALL native americans.  just one place I do know a little about from various sources. 

listen.,  I am sorry if I am not as a non native English speaker able to use the correct words or write as a enlish person would do.  it is actually hard for me to write in english.  and use the language to its full extend. I speak better and read better english though. 
 , 
I am a old punk for god sake.   sigh.  its simply the most wrong you can ever say about me that I am racist. 

here is maybe your target more than me .
http://www.eagleroad.dk/Johanne_Eagleroad.htm


Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 09:18:56 am
"Hejsan, Carsten! Jag är från Sverige och vill gärna dela med mig av mina tankar!"
 
I am fully aware of all the exploiters and frauds coming to our countries. And I know of Jordan and Marianne, I spoke to them a few times. He had quite a bad reputation here, he charged for ceremonies.

I know how easy it is to get sucked in to the lies of the exploiters. I´ve been there! And I am sure there is stuff out on the Internet that I have posted, or old brochures with my words in them, that would make me cringe!! At that time, I didn´t know better.

So I would never come down on anyone having “done wrong” in the past. When the truth hits you – and it will, eventually - it´s tough! Realizing you´ve lived a lie, maybe built your life around a scam and also – most likely - probably informed/taught/told other people these lies. It´s hard, it´s like getting out of a cult and to avoid that pain, it´s easier to crawl right back to the frauds again. Because heyyy, they love you!  ;)  Since you´re talking about spirit – I, personally, believe that at this moment, standing on this crossroad, is the first time spirit finds you and asks you to choose….

I have a hard time figuring out why you are here. At this forum? Maybe you are at the crossroad and the truth is too painful right now? (Giving you the benefit of a doubt).  There are many Native Americans in here. Some of them I know IRL, some just on the Internet. Most of them have patience, understanding and forgiveness beyond belief!  Not once has any of them ever come down on me for the crap I did back in time. Not once! They just kindly guided me in on the right path.

So – if you want respect and truth, start again. Stop defending yourself and listen. Admit that you´ve done things that are wrong, but that you are willing to change. It´s all about attitude. Trust and respect have to be earned. And if it hurts like hell to face the truth, see it as your personal Sundance. It will be worth it!

PS If it´s easier for you in Danish/Swedish, send me a PM

thanks.  I am sorry to hear that ,   I will prefer Danish if you can over the PM. 
will be after coffee .  and a little sleep.  but I would very much like to talk about these things , 
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 10:46:21 am
Jeg håber det er sendt som PM , har lidt svært med at se hvordan det virker. 

tak for dit indlæg.  det var faktisk rart nok nogen ville lige tage sig tid til at finde ud af hvem jeg  er til at starte med. 

jeg er ikke på en crossroad som sådan men ved enden af en cirkle.  jeg var nødt til at opsøge mange new age behandler af flere grunde , en af dem er at en dag skrive bøger og holde foredrag for at advare om netop faren ved det.

jeg er meget bevist om at i det miljø er det hele en gråzone.  der er ikke noget helt authentisk at finde her.  men der er nogen som er mere autentiske end andre.   


jeg har også  været igennem et rent helved  men på grund af sygdom.  det er ikke underligt man først falder i kløer på healer og tarot oplægger osv.   dem har jeg mødt mange af . 

også lidt med vilje betalt for sessioner fordi jeg skulle faktisk helt ærligt bruge de erfaringer sener hvis jeg skulle begynde at skrive om de ting sener i livet. 

nu ved jeg godt at de ikke bryder sig så meget om at jeg åben vedkender jeg har brugt svedehytter og det er rigtigt nok ikke den rigtige måde at lære de ting på ,

det er også noget som jeg ikke synes er korrekt ,  da man må aldrig tage penge for de ting.

aller først for at du ikke er i tvivl.   jeg betragter ikke svedehytte som noget shamanistisk.   jeg ved også godt indianer ikke har shamaner.  alle de core shamaner  og de ting har jeg altså meget imod at bruger svedehytter i kurser og tager penge for det.   jeg har enda ringet til flere af dem og sagt de skulle lade være. 

jeg er lige så sur på new age verden som jer her inde på sitet er .  jeg har altså også masser af grund til det. 

men det er ikke noget kulturelt for mit vedkommende.    mit problem med new age verden er at de udnytter alt og alle.  og tager penge fra syge folk eller uvidene folk og måske skader dem. 

der er flere ting jeg godt vil fortælle dig om af lidt mere personlige og dybere reflektioner  men nu ville jeg holde det kort første gang. 

jeg vil også godt diskutere det emne om hvide kan få lov til at lede svedehytter og deltate i ceremonier .  det har oprigtigt min interesse  det emne.  men det bliver lige sener. 

jeg er nemlig også nødt til at forklare en del af mit livs sammenhænge først for du kan se det store billed i hvorfor jeg er ledt igennem livet på den måde som jeg er.

Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: earthw7 on April 05, 2013, 01:46:34 pm
This is not the place! This is a site for Native American frauds which there are many.
The right to my spsirituality it is not up for debate, not with me i attend only closed
ceremonies where non Native are not welcomed because they like to take what is not
their, Plus they dont follow the strict procall of our people and do thing in a very
strange way making up things as they go, They dont know the stories or whys and how
which every step you take at a ceremony has a reason. In order to do a ceremony
like a sweat lodge it takes 8 years of training before we allow a person to pour the water,
what you took one class.  :o
No this not up for debate with me.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: earthw7 on April 05, 2013, 01:56:51 pm
"Hejsan, Carsten! Jag är från Sverige och vill gärna dela med mig av mina tankar!"
 
I am fully aware of all the exploiters and frauds coming to our countries. And I know of Jordan and Marianne, I spoke to them a few times. He had quite a bad reputation here, he charged for ceremonies.

I know how easy it is to get sucked in to the lies of the exploiters. I´ve been there! And I am sure there is stuff out on the Internet that I have posted, or old brochures with my words in them, that would make me cringe!! At that time, I didn´t know better.

So I would never come down on anyone having “done wrong” in the past. When the truth hits you – and it will, eventually - it´s tough! Realizing you´ve lived a lie, maybe built your life around a scam and also – most likely - probably informed/taught/told other people these lies. It´s hard, it´s like getting out of a cult and to avoid that pain, it´s easier to crawl right back to the frauds again. Because heyyy, they love you!  ;)  Since you´re talking about spirit – I, personally, believe that at this moment, standing on this crossroad, is the first time spirit finds you and asks you to choose….

I have a hard time figuring out why you are here. At this forum? Maybe you are at the crossroad and the truth is too painful right now? (Giving you the benefit of a doubt).  There are many Native Americans in here. Some of them I know IRL, some just on the Internet. Most of them have patience, understanding and forgiveness beyond belief!  Not once has any of them ever come down on me for the crap I did back in time. Not once! They just kindly guided me in on the right path.

So – if you want respect and truth, start again. Stop defending yourself and listen. Admit that you´ve done things that are wrong, but that you are willing to change. It´s all about attitude. Trust and respect have to be earned. And if it hurts like hell to face the truth, see it as your personal Sundance. It will be worth it!

PS If it´s easier for you in Danish/Swedish, send me a PM

Ah my friend thank you for saying the words in a right way, I get so upset when i try to explain and no one listen,
I will be doing lecture on the Whitestone massarce today and i dreamth all night and woke up with tears in my eye
I could hear my grandma screaming Ina! Ina! as they shot her and to think she was only nine years old but she lived
so I could be here today. I just dont think people understand what it is to be native today. It is grief, it is always having
to forgive and always looking to have that compassion and on some days it is gets hard. Thank you again for reminding me
to be compassionate.
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: milehighsalute on April 05, 2013, 02:13:26 pm
i agree earthw7.....no non-natives should take part in any ceremony......they have no business even having interest in our ceremonies....where im from most of the time they close the road in and put cops there not allowing non-indians into rez but many white people try anyways.....arguing with the tribal cops how they "come out of respect" with cameras in thier hands

im not really racist until it comes to holding onto whats mine......and our religion is about all we have left
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Freija on April 05, 2013, 02:24:24 pm
Ah my friend thank you for saying the words in a right way, I get so upset when i try to explain and no one listen,
I will be doing lecture on the Whitestone massarce today and i dreamth all night and woke up with tears in my eye
I could hear my grandma screaming Ina! Ina! as they shot her and to think she was only nine years old but she lived
so I could be here today. I just dont think people understand what it is to be native today. It is grief, it is always having
to forgive and always looking to have that compassion and on some days it is gets hard. Thank you again for reminding me
to be compassionate.

Aawh, it hurts so much to read about your grandma.  :'( None of us non-Natives can ever fully understand, and we shouldn´t even pretend that we do. And how you guys hold it together, trying to be patient and polite in the middle of all the culture vultures is nothing but a miracle. It says a lot about your people and other Native people!!

We all need to blow off steam and many times it is necessary and totally called for!! This was just one of my calm, balanced days  ;D so I wanted to give my Scandinavian neighbour the benefit of a doubt.  :)   
Thank you so much for your kindness!
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 05:03:14 pm
I know how easy it is to get sucked in to the lies of the exploiters. I´ve been there! And I am sure there is stuff out on the Internet that I have posted, or old brochures with my words in them, that would make me cringe!! At that time, I didn´t know better.

Exactly. Most of us have made mistakes at some point. Many of us do this work to make amends for the mistakes we made when we were ignorant.  So then it comes down to what someone does when they are educated about it.

Quote
Since you´re talking about spirit – I, personally, believe that at this moment, standing on this crossroad, is the first time spirit finds you and asks you to choose….

Good point.

I get so upset when i try to explain and no one listen,

I am so grateful that you continue to educate people. I don't know what we'd do without you.

Quote
I will be doing lecture on the Whitestone massarce today and i dreamth all night and woke up with tears in my eye
I could hear my grandma screaming Ina! Ina! as they shot her and to think she was only nine years old but she lived
so I could be here today. I just dont think people understand what it is to be native today. It is grief, it is always having
to forgive and always looking to have that compassion and on some days it is gets hard. Thank you again for reminding me
to be compassionate.

Strength to you at your lecture today, and gratitude for your brave grandmother, for surviving, for allowing you and your relatives to be born. I don't even know what to say about the horror she lived through, or the responsibility you carry from your ancestors, and for your people now. You are doing such valuable, important work. It makes me very angry to see people come here and not give you the respect you deserve. I find it hard to be compassionate when people act that way.

The non-Natives who get fixated on the romantic fantasies don't want to see the reality of being NDN; they want the hollywood, newage fantasies. I think we can tell a lot about someone by how they respond when given a look at the reality - whether they feel compassion and respect, or whether they try to use the struggles Native peoples face as a way to further exploit people.

I think that if we had no hope for people being able to change, we wouldn't do this work. Some people do change. But when I get the feeling someone is not ready to change, and maybe never will, I'm not going to bang my head against the wall.

Carsten, if you're still reading this, you are incredibly lucky that people here have been willing to engage with you. You seem to think that we should be grateful for your presence here;  perhaps people would be grateful if you were respectful and quit trying to defend offensive behaviour. But your disrespect has made me consider banning you. If you can listen and learn to be humble you can stay and listen. But if you keep disrespecting people, we're only going to put up with that for so long.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on April 05, 2013, 05:43:49 pm
For those who wish to know what Carsten is posting here in Danish, I've used Google Translator on his post. It just seems rude to me to post in a forum that uses English, knowing that the readers most likely won't be able to read it.. so.. here it is:

I hope it is sent as PM, has little hard to see how it works.

thanks for your post. it was actually nice enough someone would just take the time to find out who I am to start with.

I'm not on a crossroad as such but at the end of a circle. I had to seek out many new age treats for several reasons, one of them is to one day write books and give lectures to warn of the danger of just that.

I am very convinced that the environment is all a gray area. there's nothing quite authentisk find here. but there are some that are more authentic than others.


I've also been through a pure hell but because of illness. it's no wonder you first fall in the claws of healer and tarot holding the so those I have met many.

also suffered intentionally paid for sessions because I was actually quite honestly use the experience tendons if I were to start writing about the things tendons in life.

Now I know that they do not like so much that I open acknowledge I have used sweat lodges and this is true not the right way to learn the stuff on,

it is also something that I do not think is correct, then one must never take money for those things.

first of all, that you are not in doubt. I do not consider sweat lodge as a shamanic. I also know Indians do not have shamans. all the core shamans and the things I have therefore very reluctant to use sweat lodges in courses and take money for it. I have even called several of them and said they should not.

I'm just so mad at new age world like you in here on the site is. I have also plenty of reason for it.

but it is not something cultural for me. my problem with New Age world is to the advantage of everyone and everything. and taking money from sick people or ignorant people and may harm them.

There are several things I want to tell you about a little more personal and deeper reflections but now I would keep it short the first time.

I would also like to discuss the topic of white may be allowed to lead sweat lodges and deltate in ceremonies. it has truly my interest in the topic. but it is just tendons.

I'm namely also have to explain a part of my life contexts only you can see the big picture of why I passed through life in the way that I am.

Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on April 05, 2013, 05:45:09 pm
Earthw7, many good thoughts to you, for your lecture and for all your days here on Earth.
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on April 05, 2013, 06:04:51 pm
Carsten, white people brought this onto their selves with their greed, dishonesty and cruelty. I was fortunate as a white person to take part in authentic ceremony back in the early 90's. I have never violated the trust placed in me for my minimal participation and I never will. My life is far different than that of Native peoples, and I can never know what they live and have lived. But, I can understand hurt, anger, and the importance of protecting what is a core importance and value, be it a Native person or any other person on this planet.

Seriously, you need to learn that trespassing on another person's heart and soul, regardless of who they are, is wrong. It does not matter what you think or feel, it is not yours to take or walk on. If you were fortunate to find some healing in the crazy world we live in, then be happy with that and leave it at that and leave all the rest of it alone.

You say you have only taken what was given to you. Nice. But you are not doing that by continuing to use it. The gift was given and received and it is over now. Done. To continue to take of it is gluttony. You may not realize this, but it is. From my personal experience I can say this. I was fortunate, received, and then I left and I do not keep taking of it. If you want to give of what you were given, then stop using it and start protecting it. That is the only way to give back of what you were given. You don't seem to understand that whatever you were given to heal yourself has expired now. It's over. Now it is only time to protect it, so the millions of exploiters don't destroy it. It doesn't belong to you and it never did. It came and went and you trying to continue with it is not good. It is exploiting something special, and it is tarnishing what was given.

Leave it alone now. I think Freija is right that you are at this forum because you reached a crossroad. Continue as you are doing, and it will not be good for you or others. Learn here in this forum, be grateful for what came to you, let it go and leave it alone, and it will be good for you and all others.

You cannot pretend to be what you are not. You cannot pretend to have knowledge on ceremony you are not part of. You cannot keep doing what you are doing, it is harmful. You are being told this now. That it's come and gone and to continue with it as you are, is only going to harm. What is your choice now.. that's up to you, but I hope you put aside your self, selfishness, of what *you* think and *you* feel and instead, look to what is real. The reality is that these ceremonies and ways are not yours, do not belong to you and you have no rights to them.



Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on April 05, 2013, 06:12:34 pm
Carsten, seriously? How can anyone who respects, read a declaration of war like this, and then think it's Ok to just not abide by it. That is not respect and as far as being racist, as long as you continue to group Native peoples (or any peoples) into some sort of ideology in your mind, then you are being racist. It's better to just admit to the fact than try and pretend it isn't so. I have many racist moments in my life. The best I can do is recognize it as such and learn and go forward hopefully being a better human being because of it.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Epiphany on April 05, 2013, 07:05:53 pm
Thank you Earth for everything, I think on your words often, appreciate all I am learning.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 09:01:59 pm
For those who wish to know what Carsten is posting here in Danish, I've used Google Translator on his post. It just seems rude to me to post in a forum that uses English, knowing that the readers most likely won't be able to read it.. so.. here it is:

... ... ...

I'm not on a crossroad as such but at the end of a circle. I had to seek out many new age treats for several reasons, one of them is to one day write books and give lectures to warn of the danger of just that.

Here comes yet more motives - to be seen as an authority, and yet another line of B.S. It's B.S. in any language.

Quote
I am very convinced that the environment is all a gray area.

No, it's not. Always looking for the loopholes, like any exploiter.

Quote
there's nothing quite authentisk find here. but there are some that are more authentic than others.

Sorry we didn't fulfill your Dances With Wolves / Avatar / Man Called Horse fantasies. We aren't looking for a white chief.

Your suffering is no more special than anyone else here. How dare you assume you are the only one who has suffered. You have not tried to find out anything about what people here have been through. And when you did find out a bit about the poverty on one of the reservations, you dismissed it, "I am not interested in that." That's sociopathic.

Quote

I would also like to discuss the topic of white may be allowed to lead sweat lodges and deltate in ceremonies. it has truly my interest in the topic. but it is just tendons.

Typical. Still looking for loopholes. Hopes that contacting a white person privately will get him the agreement and support to violate boundaries. Still carries the racist belief that one person who claimed to be NDN could give him permission to violate the community consensus of entire tribes/nations and coalitions of tribes/nations. Shocking and, yes, racist.
Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 09:24:27 pm
Carsten, seriously? How can anyone who respects, read a declaration of war like this, and then think it's Ok to just not abide by it. That is not respect and as far as being racist, as long as you continue to group Native peoples (or any peoples) into some sort of ideology in your mind, then you are being racist. It's better to just admit to the fact than try and pretend it isn't so. I have many racist moments in my life. The best I can do is recognize it as such and learn and go forward hopefully being a better human being because of it.

first of.  I read this years after I was in the ceremonies with hakita.  however he mentioned a meeting with his elders where he was prayed for and told to go home and open up for us here to be able to learn about sweats and take part in them.

so when I found this on net with statements from both him and other people and I could read this , see if I can find link again ,  what he said make complete sense to me.  I knew then why he did it.  solved a few questions I had about it for me reading this.  that proved what he said was correct. 


however lets imagine I never been involved with anything native american before in my life and then finds that declaration and reads it . 

its a declaration of war.   spiritual war.  would you think  its a sane decision to just accept  something found on the net with that headline.   spiritual war never lead to anything good did  it.


I at that time years  ago picked a side in this matter  after reading it.  I did this using brain and intuition.    I also discussed it whenever the chance where there ,  as instance in the shamanic forum ,  because it is a important matter. 

Title: Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 09:30:44 pm
these things are always interesting.   you can find information in a book by demand jacobsen.  she is critical about new age shamanism and went around the world for years to study shamanism . 

one of the books I consider most complete works  to date  is the book she wrote  "shamanisme mellem ånder og mennesker "

do not know the english title but there is as said lots of useful information in that book. 
Title: Re: Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 09:35:21 pm
Sorry, Carsten, but I do not trust your advice on this nor your determination to post in the pinned threads. I'm moving your comments to your intro thread.
Title: Re: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 09:36:27 pm
Carsten, stop creating tangents in the pinned threads. I'm moving this to your intro.
Title: Re: Declaration of War Against Exploiters of Lakota Spirituality
Post by: Carsten on April 05, 2013, 10:01:25 pm
by the way.  I Am not white.  I look exactly like a person from Greenland and everyone I meet from Greenland thinks I am coming from over there.   

I got a fair share of judgement  on my person as well here.  because racism does exist here as well. 

I am not white  but my family has been here for long time.  we where here from at least  the year  1200 and for some reason I am dark skinned.   

why would western people also automatically have to be white.  with blue eyes.,   curly blond hair.   

lets define racism before using the term as insult. 

racism is when you  pass judgement on people based on  skin colour , political believes ,  or religious believes.   in the sense its a negative  judgement . 

this is actually considered bad enough to be illegal to write hateful comments  or commit hatecrimes.  if a person here writes in the net using racist as a insult.  well he can be taken legal actions against . 

its not a word to using as a insult.  neither a word you should twist into something its not.,  its a clear definition  and you cant use this word against me.


to be honest.  why hajita did not think  it was okay to ban every white person from being taking part in sweats was exactly because he saw it as a form of racism.  this I agree with. 

it is like I am to be starting telling your people that converted to stop using the church.  because I am white and this is my religion. but that is a clear legal definition off racism  this would be very bad to do so. 

in which way do I suddenly become a racist  by your logic ?

Title: Re: Plastic Shamans and Astroturf Sun Dances: (ARTICLE)
Post by: Epiphany on April 05, 2013, 10:02:35 pm
these things are always interesting.   you can find information in a book by demand jacobsen.  she is critical about new age shamanism and went around the world for years to study shamanism . 

one of the books I consider most complete works  to date  is the book she wrote  "shamanisme mellem ånder og mennesker "

do not know the english title but there is as said lots of useful information in that book.

This book by Merete Demant Jakobsen?

http://www.amazon.com/Shamanism-Traditional-Contemporary-Approaches-Mastery/dp/1571811958/ref=la_B001K8IZA8_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365199236&sr=1-1 (http://www.amazon.com/Shamanism-Traditional-Contemporary-Approaches-Mastery/dp/1571811958/ref=la_B001K8IZA8_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365199236&sr=1-1)
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 10:23:38 pm
by the way.  I Am not white. 
... ... ...

why would western people also automatically have to be white.  with blue eyes.,   curly blond hair.   
... ... ...

because I am white and this is my religion.

Wow. Still can't keep your story straight.

A Dutch person with darker coloring is still Dutch, and is still non-Native. How stupid do you really think we are? 

Whether we say "white" or "non-Native" or "European"... we're still talking about cultural outsiders with no right to Indigenous ceremonies. Having a bit more melanin, as do, say, Italians, changes nothing.

Only privileged people get to decide whether they "identify" as white or not.  It is the height of arrogance to compare being a Euro with slightly darker coloring to being a Person of Color in a racist place like America. The ignorance just doesn't stop with this one.
Title: Re: Re: Nomad Winterhawk
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 05, 2013, 11:51:35 pm
Carsten has been given a time out for his unrelenting racism towards respected members of the board, towards NDNs in general, lying, and his refusal to quit dominating pinned threads and creating tangents about how he thinks his opinion is worth more than entire Nations and coalitions of Nations of Indigenous Peoples. If he has any useful info about the frauds he defends, he can email it to the admin team. He would have to apologize and demonstrate he understands what he did wrong before we would consider letting him return.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten.
Post by: critter - a white non-ndn person on April 06, 2013, 12:14:26 am

first of.  I read this years after I was in the ceremonies with hakita.  however he mentioned a meeting with his elders where he was prayed for and told to go home and open up for us here to be able to learn about sweats and take part in them.

so when I found this on net with statements from both him and other people and I could read this , see if I can find link again ,  what he said make complete sense to me.  I knew then why he did it.  solved a few questions I had about it for me reading this.  that proved what he said was correct. 

however lets imagine I never been involved with anything native american before in my life and then finds that declaration and reads it . 

its a declaration of war.   spiritual war.  would you think  its a sane decision to just accept  something found on the net with that headline.   spiritual war never lead to anything good did  it.

I at that time years  ago picked a side in this matter  after reading it.  I did this using brain and intuition.    I also discussed it whenever the chance where there ,  as instance in the shamanic forum ,  because it is a important matter. 


Honestly, I don't care about your excuses for choosing to 1) continue using a way that is not yours ie: stealing 2) disrespect peoples who have, as you claim, given you some healing.

You are not an honorable person. You have no honor. What you have is a bucket full of excuses which you can't even take responsibility for.

You discussed it with people who justify stealing culture. You have opportunity to discuss it with the people it actually matters to.. but you have made your decision. Using your brain and intuition.

Well, no one's brain is right, perfect, correct, and intuition is often misguided by personal desire making it faulty at best especially *especially*
when it comes to what one *wants*. You want this.. and hey.. this other guy said it was ok.. and these people over there say it's ok.. so.. Right. uh huh. yeah.  You have NO honor.

Take take take and pretend to be giving it to others under some deluded guise of being knowledgeable. It's still just taking. I don't blame any Native peoples anywhere for turning away white people.. just look at you.. You're a PRIME example of what's wrong.

You can't just be happy with what you were given to help you heal.. no.. You have to keep taking.. and then turn around and pretend you are giving to others. Impossible.  It's a delusion, or illusion. All you are doing is taking.  I'm thinking you probably don't know what I mean, and I'm not sure I can explain. But to say if in one moment of your life, someone gave you something to help you heal, that's ALL it was, a gift, for that time, those moments. You can't keep taking it, without it turning into stealing. And, you cannot give it to someone else, the gift is already spent, in that moment you needed it. So, you are stealing it now, and pretending to give of it. And all that is happening is theft and propagation of theft.

Now, before I type a string of highly offensive adjectives to describe you.. I'm leaving.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten. (another racist meltdown thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 06, 2013, 12:51:57 am
Carsten, bans apply per person, not per account. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that someone so committed to violating boundaries is trying to evade the ban by creating a sockpuppet account. Just can't take "No" for an answer, can you?
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten. (another racist meltdown thread)
Post by: Defend the Sacred on April 06, 2013, 01:18:34 am
however he mentioned a meeting with his elders where he was prayed for and told to go home and open up for us here to be able to learn about sweats and take part in them.

Another classic fraud line: "The Elders told me to sell out!  The Elders told me to go take money from Germans! The Elders want me to violate the ways they've risked their lives to defend, and that our ancestors died for. They didn't really mean it when they publicly declared war on people like me!"

Sure, not like we've ever heard that before.

You'd think these sociopaths would maybe bother to read the board and realize how tired their lies are. But they're too selfish and over-confident to do even that. They just think they'll trample all over us and we'll be grateful for it. It's evil, is what it is.
Title: Re: hello. my name is Carsten. (another racist meltdown thread)
Post by: milehighsalute on April 08, 2013, 06:15:02 pm
hahahaha this carsten guy is heeeeelarious.........anyways....all i have to offer these twinkies (male or female) is wise words of my grandmother to my cousins

"stay away from in-yin boys...they will break your heart"

i dont know why twinks have to seek such a romance for our people.....if i was in denmark i would be partyin it up.....last thing i would do is look for another ndn to walk the right path with

twinkies can NEVER understand us....so quit the fantasy already