Author Topic: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters  (Read 117891 times)

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #195 on: November 19, 2009, 09:47:53 pm »
This is a letter from Indian Country Today, frauds supporting other frauds. This is also why I cancelled my subscription three years ago. ICT is like Wikipedia, it is not a reliable source and you constantly have to check the facts because they don't. Click on the first link and you can watch the web cast of the senate committe. My bold.

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/opinion/letters/69909172.html



http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2427.msg20276#msg20276

Reply 170



Similar story rings through
Story Published: Nov 15, 2009

Story Updated: Nov 12, 2009

Watching the Webcast for the hearing that occurred on Nov. 4 entitled “Fixing the Federal Acknowledgment Process,” hosted by the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, I was struck by the same story that my own people face.

One of the most striking testimonies, and one so familiar, was that of Anne D. Tucker, chairperson, Muscogee Nation of Florida. I felt her words and they stirred my heart deeply. Her words rang out the voice of so very many non-recognized Native American Indian descendants from all across this country. The ton of paper work, the Jim Crow mind set, the burning of records; these are descriptions of our struggle to be heard and remembered.

The way in which Tucker described her peoples growing sense that the system and the process would never work; she was not only saying it for Muscogee Nation of Florida, she was saying it for the Saponi people and all the rest of the non-recognized Native American descendants from the eastern shores to the Pacific, from Alaska to the Midwest and all points in between.

Non-recognized Native American descended people are among the most at risk for completely losing their identity. We so often hear about the plight of the reservation people, but how often do we hear about the plight of non-recognized Indian people? When you see these mixed-bloods do not heap more derision upon a people that have suffered. Do not think of them as “wannabes,”“thin-bloods,” “little-bloods,” or “hobbyists.” Do not think of them as “twinkies,” ”new agers,” or as “culture vultures.” They have been through enough and they still struggle with their identity and reviving their cultures.

Instead, strive to offer support to them for they are your brothers and sisters sharing a common history of colonial devastation and assimilation. They may not all look like you and, in fact, many may look African or European, but they are Native American descended people who are constantly denied their history, identity and religious freedom. They do not have reservations or access to the types of funding that federally recognized tribes enjoy. They are the poorest and most oppressed in Indian country. In fact, this segment of the Native American population is the most beset upon ethnic group in the United States today. What other ethnic group can claim that their 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion is contingent upon being federally recognized?

There are certainly problems and devastating conditions that exist on reservations today as has always been the case, however if you look at non-recognized Indian people that do not live on a reservation they too deal with poverty, lack of education, lack of health care, alcoholism and drug addiction.

They have the added burdens of identity crises and access to services all the while being derided by outsiders as well as federally recognized Indian people that fear their numbers. Say a prayer for these people and lend them your support for but the grace of God you could have been born among them.


– Scott Preston Collins
Saponi Nation of Ohio
Euless, Texas




Quote
Scott Preston Collins:They are the poorest and most oppressed in Indian country

 WTH??? If this guy wants to try and play the victim, ( which he is not) then then he should get his facts straight. That is one of the most ignorant and clueless statements I have read in a very long time!!!

Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #196 on: November 19, 2009, 11:00:49 pm »

Non-recognized Native American descended people are among the most at risk for completely losing their identity. We so often hear about the plight of the reservation people, but how often do we hear about the plight of non-recognized Indian people? When you see these mixed-bloods do not heap more derision upon a people that have suffered. Do not think of them as “wannabes,”“thin-bloods,” “little-bloods,” or “hobbyists.” Do not think of them as “twinkies,” ”new agers,” or as “culture vultures.” They have been through enough and they still struggle with their identity and reviving their cultures.

This is ridiculous.  I'm sorry if I am ignorant of what it means about "identity" but I'm sorry, I just don't buy into this type of thing. 

I seriously have no wish to offend tons of people here, or anywhere, but "identity" is more than just who your gg mother or father is.. or who your other ancestors were.  The knowledge of 'knowing' who your ancestors were is great.. but it doesn't make your identity imo.  Can be PART of it, ok..  sure.. but if your identity in this world is based solely on who your ancestors were, I dunno, that sounds 'lost' to me already.

Of course, I can only speak from my own experience of being alive.  My identity comes from the inside of me, I know who I am.  If I suddenly found out my ancestors where this or that peoples.. it wouldn't change my identity in this world.. I am still who I am. 

I do not understand this 'loss of identity' argument from ADULTS who've probably grown up in a normal ( as per normal standards ) house with some parents and maybe some siblings.  Aunts, uncles and cousins.  Growing up.  Then.. suddenly all that is 'lost' because of some ancestors?  And because they aren't 'recognized' as NDN?  If that's the case, then these people have other issues that are perhaps more serious than Identity.. 

To me, sounds like cry babies who want someone to feel sorry for them.  Again, I am not trying to bash people who feel a sense of 'identity' to their ancestors.. 

I don't know, I have no sense of identity to any of my ancestors... but I still have my own identity..  so..  I don't know.  It doesn't seem right to me, and seems instead.. a whiners call to pity them.. 

Instead, strive to offer support to them for they are your brothers and sisters sharing a common history of colonial devastation and assimilation. They may not all look like you and, in fact, many may look African or European, but they are Native American descended people who are constantly denied their history, identity and religious freedom. They do not have reservations or access to the types of funding that federally recognized tribes enjoy. They are the poorest and most oppressed in Indian country. In fact, this segment of the Native American population is the most beset upon ethnic group in the United States today. What other ethnic group can claim that their 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion is contingent upon being federally recognized?

Again, I am hoping I am not offending tons of people when I say this.. but...  this is ludicrous.  I think the only sentence in here that makes sense as to WHY these people are crying is in regards to the 'FUNDING'.   

All I see are people looking to something on the outside for their identity, religious, spiritual, needs.  If they want to know who they are, and if they want to practice some sort of spiritual living, all they need to do is look within..  a lot.  It isn't against the law.

Once again, all I see are humans looking to other humans for their needs and answers to be met.  Look again. 

Maybe because I've always been alone I have a different perspective.  Yes, it's great to have someone to talk to.. but..  for what this article is saying.. holy cow man.. Apparently these peoples Lives, Sanity, and Spiritual Well Being are entirely up to you all and by giving them recognition.. you provide them with all they need?  That's a whole lot of responsibility to put on some other person or people.  Sorry, but I don't want anyone else to be responsible for my sense of Identity, or for my Religious/Spiritual practices.. 

And why do they need someone to say they are who they are so they can practice whatever beliefs they happen to have?  I don't think their 'religious freedoms' are compromised by not being 'recognized' as NDN ..  I think this whole logic and argument is silly..  in that..  if You feel you are someone, then be that someone, you don't need anyone to tell you you are someone or not.. 

And..  in regards to NDN's issues ..  I say again, that if a descendant really respects where they have come from, then they will not trample on it.. and rip it off .. and take chunks of it as their claim..  doing so, only shows that they don't really care... IMO. 
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Paul123

  • Posts: 148
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #197 on: November 20, 2009, 01:18:06 am »
One simple little question:
If the Muscogee Nation of Florida were to get Federal recognition,
Would they still be a Fake Tribe?

Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #198 on: November 20, 2009, 02:18:44 am »
One simple little question:
If the Muscogee Nation of Florida were to get Federal recognition,
Would they still be a Fake Tribe?


Paul, I see it didn't take long for you to get your attitude back.



As for the opinions of Scott Preston Collins, from the Saponi Nation of Ohio . . . What Rattle and critter already said. Does he really expect anyone to feel sorry for him or any other descendant? Don't call us wannabes or thin-bloods. Boo hoo. Collins is from Euless, Texas; maybe that should be Clueless, Texas.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2009, 02:27:17 am by bls926 »

Offline Diana

  • Posts: 380
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #199 on: November 20, 2009, 02:39:25 am »
One simple little question:
If the Muscogee Nation of Florida were to get Federal recognition,
Would they still be a Fake Tribe?


The muscogee nation can't even get state recognition, so I'm not too worried about them getting Federal recognition.


Lim lemtsh,

Diana

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #200 on: November 20, 2009, 02:50:56 am »
Quote
There are certainly problems and devastating conditions that exist on reservations today as has always been the case, however if you look at non-recognized Indian people that do not live on a reservation they too deal with poverty, lack of education, lack of health care, alcoholism and drug addiction.

The question is "who" is he talking about?  Cause everybody here knows you can't classify "non-recogznied Indians". 

Also, if you look at real legit mixed blood Indians from real Tribes.  For example in the Cherokee Nation in NE Oklahoma.  This may be a general statement, but for the most part, enrolled/legitimite light skin/white Indians that can pass for "white" don't deal with the above mentinoed issues that full bloods deal with.  In Oklahoma for example, most light skin Cherokees don't live in poverty, deal with alcoholism, or have lack of education,etc, etc.  ( I'm not saying there are not cases like this, because there are, just that in general, this is not the case )

Its the Full blood communites that deal with poverty and drug addiction, and these types of issues etc. ANd for the most part you don't hear light skin Indians claim all this discrimination that these jokers from these fake Tribes talk about.

Sometimes its just so comical to hear how these Wannabees talk.   

Offline Diana

  • Posts: 380
  • I Love YaBB 2!
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #201 on: November 20, 2009, 02:59:58 am »
One simple little question:
If the Muscogee Nation of Florida were to get Federal recognition,
Would they still be a Fake Tribe?


Paul, I see it didn't take long for you to get your attitude back.



As for the opinions of Scott Preston Collins, from the Saponi Nation of Ohio . . . What Rattle and critter already said. Does he really expect anyone to feel sorry for him or any other descendant? Don't call us wannabes or thin-bloods. Boo hoo. Collins is from Euless, Texas; maybe that should be Clueless, Texas.



Hey Bonnie, I found some info and stats for Euless, Texas. Hmmm, it seems like Mr. Scott (white whine) Collins is living a pretty good life in Euless, Texas.

INCOME SNAPSHOT
Median household income

Local
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$49,582

National
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$41,994

Crime: The number of violent crimes recorded by the FBI in 2003 was 125. The number of murders and homicides was 0. The violent crime rate was 2.5 per 1,000 people.

Coffee: National and regional coffee companies with outlets here include Seattle's Best Coffee, Starbucks
More info about local coffee quotients

Support for libraries: Local government funding for the local library system, in fiscal years 2001-2002, was on par with the national average. (See library links below.)

RACE AND ETHNICITY 
 
Number  Pct   
 
White   34,743  75.5   
 
Black or African American   2,987  6.5   
 
American Indian and Alaska native   294  0.6   
 
Asian   3,288  7.1 
 
Native Hawaiian and other Pacific islander   856  1.9 
 
Some other race   2,475  5.4   
 
Two or more races   1,362  3.0 
 
Hispanic or Latino   6,125  13.3   
 
Sources: U.S. Census Bureau, 2000 Census; ePodunk 


http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/genInfo.php?locIndex=26407

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #202 on: November 20, 2009, 03:00:21 am »
Welcome back Paul123


Quote
If the Muscogee Nation of Florida were to get Federal recognition,
Would they still be a Fake Tribe?

Paul123, I'm sure by now you Do KNOW how the Fedeal Recognition process works.  So If there are real Historic Tribes that can't get recognized, theres no way this Fake Group would even come close.  But if by some miracle they did, then they'd still be fake in my book.  And You can say well, what if a real Tribe like the Seminole Tribe of Florida lost recognition, would they still be a real Tribe.  And the answer here would be yeah.  Paul123, just use common sense.

Offline Paul123

  • Posts: 148
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #203 on: November 20, 2009, 10:10:23 am »
@BlackWolf,
thanks for the answer.

@bls925,
attitude?

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 294
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #204 on: November 20, 2009, 03:42:36 pm »
Paul , your period of shame has not yet expired. Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf!

Offline earthw7

  • Posts: 1423
    • Standing Rock Tourism
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #205 on: November 20, 2009, 07:28:25 pm »
A tribal is nation is more than government recogization
it is skin color, eye color, hair color and texture
it our relationship, our connection to the land,
it is our stories, it is so much more.

Now we who have always been here you can not hide
our brown skin who lived in a world where people hate
us who lived with suffering are ask to
accept these people
who don't look like us- don't act like us -don't know our stories
-don't know the land -dont understand our relationship
as tribal people when they were taught only the white culture
In Spirit

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #206 on: November 20, 2009, 09:51:26 pm »
Since the question of Federal Recognition is disussed here.  Why do I always hear people trying to discredit the Mashantucket Pequots?  They are Federally Recognized.  This comes from both Indians and whites.  I think we discuseed this before with Rattlebone, and Bls.  I've concluded that they are NDN. But what does everyone elses think about this tribe in particular? 

Offline earthw7

  • Posts: 1423
    • Standing Rock Tourism
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #207 on: November 21, 2009, 03:29:04 am »
cultrually they have issues
In Spirit

Offline Paul123

  • Posts: 148
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #208 on: November 22, 2009, 11:52:30 am »
Paul , your period of shame has not yet expired......

Well Dang,,, My Bad,,,

How long would that period be?
Better yet, would you just let me know when I could return?

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: Federally Recognized Indians, Descendants, Wannabees and Exploiters
« Reply #209 on: November 22, 2009, 05:38:29 pm »
I found a blog called Polly's Granddaughter that pertains to the discussion of descendants (so called Cherokee descendants ).  Whoever wrote it really explains the issue well. The blogger basically debunks most people's claims of having Cherokee ancestry but can't prove it.

The Myth of the Cherokee Grandma


I bet you are wondering who Polly is, aren't you? Well, she was my Cherokee grandma. I know, I know, just about everyone has a Cherokee grandma, but mine is real. I know her name and where she was born and where she died and who her parents were and who her husband was and who her children were. She was born to citizens of the Cherokee Nation East and moved with them when they relocated to Indian Territory. She was listed on every Cherokee roll that was taken from the time of her birth in the 1830's to the Miller Roll. Her existence is well documented and I have a paper trail that leads from her all the way to me.

If I seemed to have gone overboard on what I know about my Cherokee grandma, it is only because so many people claim to have one. Of course all my Cherokee friends have Cherokee grandma's or else they wouldn't be Cherokee, but there are a lot of other people who claim to have Cherokee grandmas too. If you are Indian, you have undoubtedly met at least one of these people in your life. Since you are Indian, these people seem to feel obliged to tell you about their Indian grandma. They rarely have a name to go with this grandma. They just know they have an Indian grandma, often Cherokee, often full blood. They have always heard stories about her.

The story is almost always the same. Here is "The Myth of the Cherokee Grandma".

I had a Cherokee grandma. She was a full blood. Not sure how far back she is in the family tree, but she was able to escape the Trail of Tears and then marry my grandpa. She was able to pass for white so the family never talked about her Indian blood because it was not good to be an Indian back in those days. Later generations didn't talk about her much because they were ashamed of her being Indian. We have tried to research her, but can't find anything about her because records on Indians were so rare.


This is a VERY common story. Oh, there will be a few minor differences to each story that is told, but the ultimate point of the story is to explain why the person cannot tell you who their Indian grandma was and why they cannot register with one of the three Federally Recognized tribes. When someone tells me this story about their family, I always wonder if they realize I have already heard this story at least 100 times before. I wonder if they have any idea how many other people tell a very similar story. And, I wonder if they realize, it is not mathematically possible for every person in the United States who claims to have a Cherokee grandma to actually have one. The historical Cherokee Nation just wasn't that large.

So, I know I might have gone a little overboard on stating what I know about Grandma Polly, but I didn't want her to be perceived as one of those mythological Cherokee grandmas some other people have.

Those are my thoughts for the day.
Thank you for reading.

CC
The Granddaughter