General > Frauds
Orginial Keetoowah Society
frederica:
John Red Hat Duke passed away several years ago. The site was run by Scott Anderson, Blue Otter, known exploiter and fraud. There is a lot on this forum about both the Society and Anderson. frederica
Moma_porcupine:
These folks came up in the thread below;
http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1604.msg10119#new
I was curious and did some digging, and was surprised to see how little critical discussion I could find about this group on the web or even in NAFPS . Here is some more;
http://www.wovoca.com/prophecy-mormon.htm
--- Quote --- MORMON PROPHECY: FUTURE CHASTENING OF THE LATTER DAY SAINTS
by William Scott Anderson, BlueOtter -- the "Prophecykeeper"
--- End quote ---
--- Quote ---"Mormonism's founders, Joseph Smith, Heber C. Kimball, Brigham Young, John Taylor, et al, all made a sincere effort to walk the Red Path, encouraged other Mormons to do the same. I attempt to document these teachings on this page. I am thankful to the Creator for helping myself, the Prophecykeeper, take my baby steps on the Red Path, or as we Cherokees call it, The Beauty Way.
Unfortunately, those early efforts of the Mormons church's founders are ignored and/or suppressed these days. And even more unfortunately for all of us on the planet, some ethnically Hopi converts to the Mormon Church, who have no respect for the traditions of their own ancestors, now control the B.I.A. controlled Hopi Council. That council is far from being the representative of any of the Hopi's original teachings, and makes life miserable for the Eldest Hopi Elders who are still attempting to life the Hopi Lifeway. Hopi Rangers (Law Enforcement Officers) have showed a pattern of harassment of sincere people that attempt to visit and learn from Hopi traditional elders.
The BIA "Indian Reorganization Act" non-traditional Hopi Council, which is illegal under United Nations Laws, recently took steps to suppress The Hopi Prophecy as part of their scheme, claiming that the two-hearted US Government puppet council had rights that their traditional government did not."Intellectual Property" is what they claimed.(con..)
--- End quote ---
There is a few problems in these statements.
First Anderson appears to be admiting he and his friends have been rejected by the Hopi and that they aren't even allowed in the Hopi communities. Which does not fit with the claim that people associated with the prophsy keepers were recognized by the Hopi as being the long lost White brother of the Hopi prophesies, as is claimed in places like Wikipedia and answers.com. ( see bottom of this post )
The allegation this is because the Hopi are now controlled by the BIA is just silly, as the Hopi have a strong culture which is obviously controled by traditional Hopi leaders and the BIA has just as much control over every other Native community, and makes no effort to keep these other communities from being over run by non natives " wanting to learn".
The Hopi specifically state that they are not open to having bits and pieces of their culture riped off and corrupted by outsiders and this explaination makes much better sense to me than that the BIA is keeping away exploiters and New Age nut bars. It would be nice but I don't think the BIA would be interested in making itself that useful.
http://www.uta.fi/FAST/US2/PAPS/ek-hopi.html
--- Quote ---The Hopi people strongly believe that their religion is a private issue, which does not concern non-Hopis. According to their values non-Hopis should under no circumstances be converted to the Hopi religion. In part this is due to the fact that the Hopi religion is so complex that it is impossible for one person to know or understand it thoroughly. However, the Hopi also feel that their religion is tied to their ancestry and past; therefore it is impossible for people outside the tribe to be a part of the religion (Hopi Tribe, Cultural).
The Hopi desire for privacy has been greatly promoted over the years by several non-Hopi individuals who have gained financially by proclaiming themselves experts on Hopi spirituality or even by claiming they have the knowledge and the permission of the Hopi tribe to perform Hopi ceremonies (Hopi Tribe, Cultural).
For these reasons the Hopi have restricted the privileges of outside visitors to the Hopi villages. Certain places and ceremonies are out of bounds for visitors, either completely or at given times, and all forms of unauthorized recording, e.g. photography, sketching, videotaping, etc. are strictly forbidden (Hopi Tribe, Cultural).
--- End quote ---
The next thing that seems to be a falsification of history is Anderson claiming the original Morman beliefs were similar to those of any of the indigenous peoples they met.
Mormons believe American Indians are a lost tribe of Israel. As I mentioned in the thread linked to above, this belief goes back to the early 1600's when people who believed everyone descended form Adam and Eve had to find a way to explain how these descendents could have ended up on other continents.
The Mormons believe the Indians are a lost tribe of Israelis or Laminites, but they don't believe Indians were just lost physically;
http://www.rickross.com/reference/mormon/mormon34.html
--- Quote ---Mormon doctrine claims that Lehi's children eventually became two warring factions, which included the good, white Nephites and the bad, brown Lamanites. The Lamanites, eventually killed all the Nephites by 500 A.D. But the bad, brown Laminates continued to live on and are now called Native Americans.
The Book of Mormon originally stated that when Lamanites converted they would then become "white and delightsome." In 1981 the church decided to replace the word "white" with "pure."
--- End quote ---
Even more bizarre, Anderson who apparently comes from a Mormon background, which he still is associated with, is working with people promoting a strange New Age version of the Jewish traditions;
http://www.torah-voice.org/Speaking%20itinerary.htm
--- Quote ---Maggid ben Yoseif / Jerusalem Torah Voice in Exile
THURSDAY, JANUARY 10, 2008
Tenrivers and ben Yoseif, and MbY's LDS co-spokesmen, Will Blueotter and Dr. Stephen Jones, are scheduled to meet with Elder Russell Neilsen of the Quorum of the 12, and Elder Marlin Jensen of the Council of 70, the prophetic and spiritual hierarchy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in Salt Lake City. Jensen is also the LDS historian.
NOVEMBER 2007 - Ephraim and Manti, UT
ben Yoseif will be visiting with and speaking to various small groups of followers of the Book of Mormon ... who are not necessarily Mormons!
For More Information, please contact LDS co-spokesman:
Will "Blueotter"
--- End quote ---
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, also known as Mormans, believe in Jesus Christ as the only savior, a belief system which is completely incompatible with the most fundamental Jewish beliefs .
http://judaism.about.com/od/beliefs/a/jesus.htm
Though it may be that someday all religions will recognize a common philosophical root, claiming the original beliefs that founded the Mormon church are the same as those held by the Cherokee , the Hopi or the Jews is as warm and fuzzy as claiming the original Mormon beliefs are the same as Hinduism or Buddhism or the Druids.
Maggid ben Yoseif is associated with Dorothy Daigle;
http://ezinearticles.com/?Hopi-Prophecy,-Exciting-Fulfillment-Happening!&id=459208
--- Quote ---Dottie has received some revelation regarding the Hopi since Elder Red Hat's passing in December of 2003. She was told by Creator that the prophecy in Ezekiel 37 stating that He would unite the House of Judah and the House of Joseph as one, is the same event as the completion of the Hopi migration back to Jerusalem. She understands from Maggid ben Yoseif that this event must take place before the end of 2008 or else another judgment would be put on the House of Israel, the Ten Northern Tribes of which The House of Joseph is apparently the leader.
--- End quote ---
And both Anderson and Daigle claim to have been taught by John Red Hat Duke.
http://www.prophecykeepers.com/mitton.html
--- Quote ---Will Blue Otter is he spokesperson for the White Roots of Peace Council. He is a native of Minnesota, but his mother's home is Mississippi. He is Cherokee and Powhatan by blood, being a descendant of Wahunsunacock (King Powhatan) and his Kituwah Clan wife AmoPostuskee/AmoPotoiskee (The Spring or The Well) and his daughter Matoaka aka "Pocahontas."
In 1985, a full blood native man appeared to him in a dream suggesting he follow up clues in his Native American genealogy This later led Blueotter to Zula Brinkerhoff of St. George, Utah (Daughter of David Monongye, Keeper of the Hopi Prophecy), who then introduced him to Robert Three Eagles and Kent "White Eagle" Nield of Hurricane, Utah, and then introduced him to Grandfather John "Rolling Thunder" Pope. Between 1999 and 2003, he has run up against several corrupt "Chiefs' and a few good Indians too!
His latest teacher was the highly respected John "Red Hat Duke," of the Long Hair Clan of The Original Keetoowah Society. Red Hat was the adopted son of Chief Mike of Oraibi, who was brother of John Lansa. He was enrolled in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and was even old enough to be a class of person doubled enrolled - also a member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. John Red Hat "Walked West" or passed away on 12/30/2003.
--- End quote ---
I also found this comment about the prophesy keepers, initially contributed by Al, from an unnamed source in the web archives. ;
http://web.archive.org/web/20040803212751/http://users.pandora.be/gohiyuhi/nafps/articles/art18.htm
--- Quote ---A member of NAFPS inquired about the so-called "Keetowah Nighthawk Society" page, allegedly run by Cherokee elders, to a person associated with actual Keetowah Society members. They passed along the message to us, and we've received permission to post it.
This is the message in its entirety, outside of a passage where he goes off-topic criticizing the United Keetowah Band and asides to NAFPS members.
*****
Hi, thanks for writing me. I am familiar with the site in question. I even asked some knowledgeable, trusted folks in OK about some of the things on the site. First let me say this about learning things, especially the Keetoowah Society, the one that is located at the Stokes Smith ground and the Red Bird ground. Not repeating what you learn is often the most wise choice you can make....Some people get a bit hot, don't they, especially if they get questioned about who they really are. If you really study a subject thoroughly, and know what you are talking about, you don't have to tell people,if they know anything,they will know you know what you are talking about. Some try to blow smoke and it's all too evident.
When I first saw the questionable site, I too was very interested. Undoubtedly, someone took a lot of time putting all that information together. Most is copied from existing, quality materials of study done by others. But when you take good material and change it to try and act like it meant something other than it originally meant, that's bad. I have gone to great pains to obtain copies of original documents,in other words if someone writes a book and gives footnotes of their sources,I go get the original sources work and read it for myself, then I know what they really said. For instance, I have copies of 3-4 different thesis' that have been written on the society. Some are written in first person, with their contacts mentioned and often quoted. Others are more like rewrites of others works with subtle changes made to change the purpose.
With this site, please notice the first thing mentioned, the name. The Keetoowah Nighthawks Society. That was a dead giveaway that something might be wrong. Sure made some of my friends laugh though. Their is probably a lot of educated people out there, many Cherokee even, that would say, sooooooo......I can assure you however that the folks at the two grounds I mentioned would back away from such a would-be teacher. Here's why........In 1900-1902, when Red Bird and followers were opposed to and fighting the effects of the Dawes and Curtis acts, you know the land split thing......even the Keetoowah Society membership was split, mostly between the full bloods with Red Bird and the mixed bloods with the larger weathlier farms.
Short story - the Red Bird full bloods started the Red Bird ground in 1902, and soon many fires lite the nation, although after resistance proved futile, many died back (then). The mixed bloods went on the incorporate as the Keetoowah Society, Inc. in 1905 if I remember correctly, while the Red Bird group, and all those at the many fires were referred to as the Nighthawk Ketoowahs, went back to their night stomp worship services and nighttime travel. Simple name reversal to most, including Mr. Red Hat, whoever he is, but not to real members.
Under the contents page of the site, it says: "The Original Keetoowah Nighthawk Society - Red Bird Smith's program for racial awakening for the mixed bloods"....I believe I repeated that correctly. Not only is the name wrong, but the Red Bird "program" , or all those fires was never about benefitting the mixed bloods at all, it was about the full bloods, returning to their original worship practices, and overcoming the effects of the forced Dawes enrollment. You see what I mean by people rewriting truth to show and entirely different purpose. Like I said, Much of what is on the site is interesting, but if you don't know the real truth about things, folks can really lead you astray, and probably lead many to a new awareness of purpose of the Keetoowah people. Check out everything thoroughly.
By the way, I never found anyone that knew this "Red Duke" (note: he meant Red Hat I think) and now that he is dead, some female friend is carrying on with his knowledge and book writing and I am sure other money making ways. I did find out somewhere, though, that he lived in Arizona, I think. Talk about a long drive for a practicing ground member, huh. (note: there are no Stomp grounds in New Mexico or Arizona where this Red Hat was to have lived).
*****
One member of NAFPS suggested that the real Keetowah Society members do not regard this site or the person behind it as important enough to worry about or respond to. Nevertheless, since we received permission to post, we are doing so in the hopes that Cherokees who have lost touch with their heritage will not be deceived or misled by this site, and also that the various New Age/pseudo-prophecy types associated with William Anderson AKA "Blue Otter" and many other pseudonymns may hopefully come to see the error of their exploitiveways. We thank the person associated with the actual Keetowah Society for their help.
Al Carroll
Co-Founder, NAFPS
--- End quote ---
Even though the informant is not named, perhaps a bit of research could verify this historical accuracy of this information
I also see Daigle has an MSN page with lots on John Red Hat Duke
http://groups.msn.com/RedHatSpeaks/ezinearticles.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/RedHatSpeaks/redhat1.msnw
pictures of John Red Hat Duke
Within these peoples claims there is bits of real history , which might fool some people, but as far as I can tell they link up all these selected pieces of real history in ways they don't actually fit. For instance, there is some evidence ancient people may have been more competant seafarers than is generally imagined, and there may have been some trade of goods and ideas between the pre existing indigenous Nations on different continents. But to claim the people who can be proven to have lived on this continent for tens of thousands of years began with a few traders who may have occaisionally visited over the past few thousand years is egocentric and extremely disrespectful. Further more, the people involved in this trade would not have been White and therefore this possibility of ancient cross cultural contact can't rightly be linked to the idea that New Age White people are the long lost White brother to the Hopi's.
If people want to learn about the past in a real way , it might be an idea to use sources that don't so obviously distort history and who aren't using this to try to promote themselves as the big important head honchos, as these people are.
Looks like this group has even got itself on answers .com as being the real thing...
http://www.answers.com/topic/keetoowah-nighthawk-society
http://www.answers.com/topic/original-keetoowah-society
--- Quote ---John Red Hat Duke was a Cherokee Indian and member of the Keetoowah Nighthawk Society. In the eyes of the Oraibi Kykmongwes (Chiefs), John Red Hat fulfilled all their prophecies but one. After many years of association of John Red Hat with the late Oraibi chiefs John and Mina Lansa, their son, the late Kykmongwe (chief) Mike of Oraibi declared the Hopi Prophecy to be fulfilled, leaving only the future return of the corner of the Sun Clan tablet. Chief Mike was the last Oraibi Kykmongwe, due to the fact that there is no one with the correct clan lineage.
--- End quote ---
( I would have thought such an important thing that was announced to the public would have at least been covered by National Geographic)
wolfhawaii:
The information from the unidentified informant seems to correlate to what I am familiar with. I should add that I am aware of an actual ceremonial ground in Arizona, contrary to what Al said in the above referenced post. It is not a Nighthawk Keetoowah ground, but it is there. I am not at liberty to discuss it further, beyond saying that i have not been there myself, but was told of it by a highly respected Cherokee elder. I would like to find the info on John Red Hat Duke having been from AZ; I find it doubtful that he would have been associated with the grounds I am aware of. When i lived briefly in OK I had the opportunity to discuss Duke with knowledgeable figures from Redbird, Stokes, Echota, and Long Valley grounds.... no one knew who he was. I don't know where all the Red Hat adherents go to practice their weird ideas but Missouri seems likely from the Google searches I did yesterday. Redbird himself was mixed blood but culturally a fullblood and that is still a distinction made today; that mixed blood persons who are culturally Cherokee can be regarded as more indian than they are biologically. (Can be, not always are).
wolfhawaii:
On the website is information which suggests that John Duke was from the Albuquerque area not Arizona. There is said to be a large Cherokee community there; is anybody from that area on here that could shed light on Red Hat's activities there prior to his crossing?
I also looked at the MSN group that Dottie (appropriately named) runs; seems like she is mostly talking to herself in there although she encourages participation....all the posts are by her. Somewhere a squirrel is missing some nuts.
frederica:
He lived in New Leguna, NM, for a while, with someone, really had land in Arkansas to my knowledge.
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