Author Topic: Phillip Landis AKA Cloudpiler & Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site  (Read 36546 times)


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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2007, 12:59:43 am »
I did some internet hunting and it seems that the only Nemenhah band is the association running this "Native Healer" web site.  So its not that these people are exploiting a group of people called the Nemenhah, but that the web site people made up the name altogether.  
        If you read the entire thread it appears this is all linked to a Phillip Cloudpiler Landis.  Cetan stated the NAC group was probably not bona fide. You know they are not Mormon as they are talking of Shahaptian Healing. The Nemenhah claim has been disproven. The claim of finding the Book of Hagoth is questionable and I know nothing about the Book of Mormon.  This is all one group called the Nemenhah. No matter how many belief systems they mix, they sound like a cult.

Offline Kaylee

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #16 on: September 26, 2007, 02:25:53 pm »
Hum.  Thanks for the additional feedback.  This is still kinda not clear to me, but I hear it takes a long time to get your thoughts un-befuddled.

Offline outershell

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2008, 12:25:06 am »
did anyone else notice they have a radio show where you can call in....

Welcome to the Nemenhah Radio Website and Conference Call Information Center
Nemenhah Radio Program
The Nemenhah Radio Program may be heard by streaming audio during scheduled program times by clicking the link to the right in the section "Nemenhah Radio."
Conference Call
Every other Wednesday @ 7:00PM MST 
Telephone: 1-641-297-7281 the PIN is 665455#
those on the edge, can protect the center

Offline Driveby

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #18 on: February 08, 2008, 04:19:12 am »
Hi, just cruising through while googling this Cloudpiler guy, and I thought you'd be interested in a little of what I've learned about him.

I had a good friend who got involved with his group.  He claimed that this guy had adopted him into the Nez Perce nation, which struck me as really off. Is this even legally possible?  What was more, Cloudpiler was, as far as I could tell, a white guy - which doesn't necessarily mean he isn't legally Nez Perce, but I thought it was odd.  Suspecting that my friend was involved in something shady, I did some research about him.

From what I could find on government websites, he has convictions in Montana and Idaho.  The Idaho one was for running a clinic where he sold a cure-all that he said could cure AIDS and cancer.  The Montana one was for taking some investors' money and then failing to fulfill a contract to help them start a medicinal mushroom business.  So I told my friend about this, and he got angry, saying I was slandering Cloudpiler's good name with lies.  He said the Cloudpiler admits to being a convicted felon, but that it was part of the government's effort to repress him.   We haven't spoken since - kind of a crappy thing to lose a friend over. 

Make of it what you may... here's a couple of links: annual_reports/consumerannual2000.pdf

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2008, 01:21:29 pm »
He could only be adopted by a Native family, not a tribe. And even then that wouldn't entitle him to set up shop as a phony healer.

Did he have any reasoning behind the paranoid claim the govt wants to "repress" him? These are pretty straightforward fraud and theft cases. Landis took people's money, lied, and ran.


No. 00-436

    2002 MT 45


        Plaintiff and Respondent,



        Defendant and Appellant.

APPEAL FROM:    District Court of the Nineteenth Judicial District,
            In and for the County of Lincoln,
            The Honorable Michael Prezeau, Judge presiding.


        For Appellant:

            Matthew R. Cleverly; Weinstein, Manley, Riley, Therriault & Singer,
            Seattle, Washington

            Brock Albin; Albin Law Office, Bozeman, Montana

        For Respondent:

            Hon. Mike McGrath, Attorney General; Cregg W. Coughlin,
            Assistant Attorney General, Helena, Montana

            Bernie Cassidy, Lincoln County Attorney; Robert Slomski, Deputy
            County Attorney, Libby, Montana

                        Submitted on Briefs:  September 27, 2001

                                   Decided:  March 12, 2002


¶6    Landis became associated with the community of Libby, Montana, through Terry Larimer (Larimer), Lincoln County Regional Director of Woodnet, an organization helping unemployed timber industry workers.  Larimer invited Landis to give a presentation in Libby on growing, harvesting and marketing organic Reishi mushrooms for profit.  During that presentation in October of 1997, Landis reported a high demand for Reishi mushrooms, and stated his company would train and certify people in growing and harvesting Reishi mushrooms for a fee of $3,600.  Landis stated the training package included two video seminars, two hands-on seminars, and several sections of “distance learning materials??? comprised of educational text and short quizzes.  He also stated his company would buy mushrooms harvested from certified growing operations or from the wild (wild-harvested).

¶7     During this first meeting, Landis distributed literature representing growers would gross approximately $70,000 a year and stated his company would reinvest money back into the community, creating up to 150 jobs.  A spreadsheet included in Landis’ materials estimated each grower potentially could net approximately $80,000 in the fourth year of operation.
¶8    After the initial presentation, Larimer traveled to Idaho to meet with Landis about setting up his own growing operation.  He subsequently paid Landis $3,600 and entered into a training contract for growing and harvesting Reishi mushrooms.  A condition in Larimer’s contract specified that, after harvesting began, Landis would only buy back mushrooms grown from spawn--that is, mushroom cultures covering short wooden dowels used to innoculate logs--purchased from his company or a company he had approved.

¶9    Landis returned to Libby in February of 1998 and gave a second presentation which was substantially similar to the one he gave in October of 1997.  At that meeting, several area residents, led by Lerah Parker (Parker), a local nursery owner, expressed interest in forming a cooperative with the object of obtaining training for the entire group and paying only one training fee.  After the presentation, Larimer approached Parker and offered to sell his training contract to her group, and then join the group himself, in order to save money and training fees.  Parker and Larimer consulted Landis and obtained his permission for the sale of Larimer’s contract to the group.  The individual members of Parker’s group gave money to Parker for her purchase of the training contract and she subsequently purchased it on behalf of the informal cooperative, Northwest Montana Reishi (co-op).

¶10    The co-op commenced its training by distributing educational material sections, homework assignments and quizzes, a few of which were obtained from Larimer after the sale of the contract, and the rest supplied by Landis.  The members met once a week to turn in homework and quizzes and to discuss issues related to their training.  After the meetings, Parker would send the completed homework and quizzes to Landis at his home in Idaho for corrections and comments.  Landis corrected and returned the first two sections, but claimed he did not receive any other materials from Parker. 

¶11    As a continuation of its training, the co-op scheduled its first hands-on planting seminar with Landis for April 18, 1998, and then rescheduled the seminar for April 25, 1998, at Landis’ request.  In advance of the training seminar, from late March to early April, Parker collected an additional $4,620 from the members of the group to order and pay for approximately 14,000 dowels of spawn from Landis.  Landis confirmed in a mid-April e-mail to Parker that he had received payment for the order and informed Parker that production of the spawn was “on schedule.???  In early April of 1998, Larimer sent approximately 15 pounds of wild-harvested mushrooms to Landis, relying on Landis’ initial representation that he would buy wild-harvested Reishi mushrooms.  Landis stated he never received them.

¶12    On the morning of April 25, 1998, more than twenty people from the co-op, together with observers from an interested Idaho group, gathered at Parker’s nursery for the planting seminar.  Just before the seminar was to begin, Landis telephoned both Larimer and Parker  and stated he had been in a vehicle accident and did not know the location of his vehicle or the spawn the co-op had ordered.  The group attempted to locate Landis’ wrecked vehicle and the spawn in order to carry on with the seminar, but were unable to obtain any information about the accident or the whereabouts of the vehicle.  The training continued that day and members of the group planted spawn Parker had obtained from a company not pre-approved by Landis.

¶13    After Landis’ failure to attend the April 25, 1998 planting seminar, Parker stepped down as the leader of the co-op.  James Myers (Myers), a licensed professional counselor, assumed the leadership role.  Members of the co-op continued making inquiries into Landis’ accident in order to locate and retrieve the spawn, and the relationship between Landis and the co-op deteriorated rapidly.  On April 30, 1998, Myers sent Landis a certified letter requesting return of the co-op’s money.  When Myers did not receive the money by May 6, 1998, he notified the Lincoln County Sheriff’s Office, which initiated a criminal investigation.

¶14    The State of Montana (State) charged Landis with one count of felony theft and one count of felony deceptive practices.  At his arraignment on May 17, 1999, Landis entered “not guilty??? pleas to both charges.  Approximately three months after the July 22, 1999, omnibus hearing, Landis filed a motion for a probable cause hearing which the District Court denied as untimely.  Landis filed a motion to dismiss, which asserted lack of evidence but in essence argued lack of probable cause to support the charges, on November 18, 1999, together with another motion for a probable cause hearing.  The court also denied those motions. 

¶15    Landis’ jury trial began on December 7, 1999, and he moved for a directed verdict of acquittal at the close of the State’s case-in-chief.  The District Court denied the motion and the jury found Landis guilty of the felony offenses of theft and deceptive practices.  The District Court sentenced him to a 10-year suspended sentence on each count and entered judgment. 

¶16    In February of 2000, Landis filed a motion for a new trial and a request for recusal, a notice of appeal, a motion to stay imposition of sentence pending appeal, and a motion to alter or amend judgment.  Landis subsequently withdrew his notice of appeal pending the resolution of his other post-trial motions.  The District Court denied Landis’ motions for a new trial and request for recusal and to alter or amend judgment, but granted his request to stay imposition of sentence pending appeal.  Landis appeals.   


¶17    1.  Did the District Court err in refusing to dismiss the case for lack of probable cause?

¶18    As set forth above, the District Court denied Landis’ motions for a probable cause hearing and to dismiss for lack of probable cause.  On appeal, Landis continues to assert that the charges against him are not supported by probable cause.  In response, the State contends that the District Court’s basis for denying his original motion, namely, lack of timeliness, is correct and that Landis has failed to address that basis.  Landis did not reply to the State’s contention.

[Legal rules omitted]

 Thus, § 46-13-101(1), MCA, required Landis to raise the probable cause issue “at or before the omnibus hearing.???  His omnibus hearing occurred on July 22, 1999, and Landis filed his probable cause-related motions in October and November of 1999.
Accordingly, Landis’ motions were not timely filed under § 46-13-101(1), MCA, and, pursuant to § 46-13-101(2), MCA, he waived any issue of lack of probable cause.

[Montana legal procedures omitted]

¶24    Landis requested a directed verdict of acquittal on the theft and deceptive practices charges at the close of the State’s case-in-chief.  The District Court denied Landis’ request on the grounds that sufficient conflicting evidence existed in the record with respect to both counts to require factual determinations by the jury.  While Landis couches his assertions of error in terms of “matters of law,??? the questions he presents in this issue clearly revolve on whether the State presented sufficient evidence on the elements of the charged offenses.

¶25    With regard to the theft offense, the State charged that, as a common scheme, Landis worked between December of 1997 and May of 1998 to deprive owners of $4,620.  Landis argues that the State did not produce evidence that he deprived an “owner??? of property. 

[Montana legal definitions deleted]

¶27    Landis argues he took money from the co-op, which is not a “Person??? under § 45-2-101(56), MCA, because it never became a legal entity.  He further reasons that, if the co-op is not a “Person,??? it cannot be an “Owner??? and, therefore, the State did not present evidence establishing he took money from an “Owner.???  His argument is without merit. 

¶28    Under the statutory definition, a “'Person' includes an individual . . . .???  See § 45-2-101(56),
 MCA.  The record in the present case is undisputed that, while Parker forwarded the $4,620 to Landis “on behalf of??? the informal co-op, numerous individuals provided the money to Parker to pay Landis for the spawn.  We conclude that, viewing the evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution, a rational trier of fact could have found the “Owner??? element of the theft offense beyond a reasonable doubt.  Landis does not challenge the sufficiency of the evidence regarding any other essential element of the theft offense.

¶29    With regard to the deceptive practices offense, the State charged that, as a common scheme, Landis made false or deceptive statements between December of 1997 and May of 1998 for the purpose of promoting or procuring the sale of Reishi spawn and training.  A person commits deceptive practices when he or she purposely or knowingly makes a false or deceptive statement to any person for the purpose of promoting or procuring the sale of property or services.  Section 45-6-317(1)(b), MCA.  Landis claims his only deceptive statements were related to the vehicle accident, the accident occurred after he received the money from Parker and, therefore, the deceptive statements were not made for the purpose of promoting or procuring the sale of the spawn or the training.

¶30    The first problem with Landis’ argument is that it focuses solely on the evidence most favorable to him--namely, his testimony that he only made false statements regarding the vehicle accident--and ignores the State’s evidence in support of its common scheme charge alleging Landis made deceptive statements over the course of his relationship with the members of the co-op for the purpose of promoting the sale of Reishi spawn and related training.  The second problem, of course, is that it was within the province of the jury to determine the credibility of witnesses and the weight of conflicting evidence.  See State v. Weitzel, 2000 MT 86, ¶ 20, 299 Mont. 192, ¶ 20, 998 P.2d 1154, ¶ 20 (citations omitted).  So long as sufficient evidence existed on which a rational jury could find the elements of the charged offense beyond a reasonable doubt, the District Court did not abuse its discretion in denying Landis’ motion for a directed verdict on the deceptive practices charge.  See Hall, ¶ 19. 

¶31    It is true that the only direct evidence of Landis’ false or deceptive statements came from Landis himself, and that evidence limited his false statements to those made after he had the money from members of the co-op.  It is equally true that no other person involved in this case was in a position to testify directly to lies or deceptions made by Landis.

[Montana rules of law deleted]

¶33    In the present case, the record reflects that, in his presentations, including the presentation in February of 1998 to individuals who later formed the informal co-op, Landis stated that in exchange for the $3,600 training fee, trainees would become certified to grow and harvest Reishi mushrooms through video seminars, two hands-on planting seminars, and written educational materials followed by short quizzes.  Larimer and Myers also testified Landis distributed a spreadsheet indicating growers could net approximately $80,000 after tax in their fourth year of operation.  Contrary to Landis’ representations, the members of the co-op did not receive video or hands-on training.  Nor did any of the members become certified in, or make any profit from, his program.

¶34    The evidence at trial also reflects that the literature Landis distributed at his presentations stated tens of thousands of dollars would be reinvested into local rural development agencies by Landis’ company, Idaho Reishi, and that 150 jobs would be created in every participating community.  In fact, Landis’ company did not invest money into the Libby community, nor were any new jobs created there.  According to the testimony of Larimer and Myers, Landis also stated in both meetings that he would purchase wild-harvested mushrooms from growers as a way for them to fund their growing operations.  Larimer testified he sent 15-pounds of wild-harvested mushrooms to Landis in early April and never received payment.  Landis claimed he never received the mushrooms.

¶35    The record also reflects that, after the informal co-op organized in February of 1998, members of the group completed training sections one, two, three, four and seven in preparation for the first hands-on planting seminar.  Parker testified she mailed the individually-completed sections one and two to Landis in late March of 1998, and he corrected and returned them.  Parker also testified she sent Landis completed sections three, four and seven in three separate mailings from late March to mid-April of 1998.  Similar to his testimony regarding Larimer’s mushrooms, Landis claimed he never received these sections. 

¶36    In addition, Parker sent Landis $4,620 in early April of 1998 to purchase spawn for the upcoming planting seminar.  Parker testified Landis e-mailed her stating he had received payment for the spawn and that he would deliver the spawn on April 25, 1998, at the planting seminar.  For approximately two weeks in April, before Landis’ fictitious vehicle accident, Larimer and Parker testified they were unable to reach him by e-mail, telephone, or through the postal service.  Landis claimed he was in the process of moving offices. Ultimately, Landis did not attend the April 25, 1998 planting seminar or deliver the spawn on that date as previously agreed.

Offline Driveby

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2008, 03:45:52 pm »
From what I gather from his site, he thinks that the government shut down his mushroom business at the behest of the pharmaceutical industry.  He says that they want to people to stay sick so they keep shelling out money for medicine that doesn't work.  I can't decide if he really believes this, or if it's just a marketing ploy. 

If the remedies that he sells really do all that he claims, you'd think he'd be living in a house made out of solid gold bricks by now. 

Offline apache12345

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #21 on: March 02, 2009, 07:02:19 pm »
Ahey, geez [NAC] you have got a small point that could become peaceably cleared up in the legal courts.  The peyote experience has descended from the "Oshala Tradition" which appears to have originated in the four corners region.  Maybe, Mr. Landis and Co. could find the grace to go by NACTO, if the Native American Churches would consent to its becoming a legal status.........   
The ethical concern regarding the shaman's payote practice is validly important to christians because christians are desiring to be under the influence of the spirit of grace!  Payote may very well be hallucinogenic, but it can be used in very moderate dosages to control sensitivity to molds, mildew, and bacteria.  It has health enhancing potential but can be mind altering hence it is given a priority Schedule 1 listing by the USA government.
The greatest reason for my response is to witness the factual evidences of the ancient library hidden in the Wasatch Front hills of Sanpete County, Utah.  Those native-american Chiefs who joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(MORMONS), who thusly presented to Brigham Young the original writings which are made upon metal, leather, and paper.  They could not get an immediate progressive response for help to translate those writings, yet the [Council of Mayan Elders] has persisted to find help since their request from 1957 to the MORMON Church was again
unable to respond!  Not that the High Priesthood of the Mormons did not pray unto God about those writings, but it has taken some very conservative means to produce "The Nemenhah Chapters of the Menintah Archives."  These records shall surely lead one in a plain and straight manner to witness the truth of our Native-American ancestry. 

It was reported by the 'National Geographic Society' some years ago that DNA genetic testing of the native american tribes reveals that 90% of the South American tribes are descended from one very same man!  Could this be LEHI of the Book of Mormon testimony?  Also, the same report says that only 50% of the North American tribes are descended from that same man!    As an Apache descendant, which is similar to Navajo, we are Athapascan language basis; but, our heritage issues a story of originating from these four corners area then relocating north in the Eskimo territory and returning to these southwest areas.  It means DNA genetic testing proves we have Asian genes mixed into our ancient native american bloodlines, and I am suspect that there must be Vikings genes mixed into some of our north american tribal bloodlines elsewhere.  For that matter, did the ancient-Irish come to America or the Mediterranean seafarers of old?

Anyhow, I recommend to all Native American heritages to learn about how closely the Book of Mormon and the Menintah Archives' Nemenhah Chapters have correlation to each other!!!!!!  Phillip R. Landis and the Plastic Medicine Woman need not have to make a defense about the Hope in Christ!!  Please, do not force theirselves into a debate about the message of God's intentions, but if a more strait and plain resolve can be afforded, let it be that an agrrement between the Native Amercian Churches(NAC) and the Native American Traditional Organization can be squarely progressed in the USA legal courtroom.     
Thank you for your attention, I am a disciple of Joseph Smith Jr.'s testimony and a relative to the Nemenhah genealogies, my native american heritages are from New Mexico, Arizona, Sonora, and probably from Chihuahua and Texas, and also possibly from Utah, of course.  I've yet to seek out my tribal lineages from the DNA genetic testing proceedures.  I personally believe Jesus Christ is the savior and redeemer of mankind, and that we native americans are relatives to the Jews and the Christ through Lehi and company.  Amen and Amen.   

Offline Superdog

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Re: Plastic Medicine Man/Woman Online Site
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 12:42:53 pm »
This seems like a whole different discussion Apache.  It's a debate that has nothing to do with the Cloudpiler site...the mods might wanna move this post.

Not debating your claims, just pointing out the obvious.