NAFPS Forum

Quote from: earthw7 on August 25, 2009, 02:24:28 PM
So do what does an author have to do with selling ceremonies

So we should strike Carlos Castaneda and Lynn Andrews and all the other phony shamanism book-writers from the lists of frauds?

Quote from: Cetan on August 18, 2009, 08:28:00 PM
the difference is Casteneda and Lynn Andrews tried to claim their characters were real people and their experiences actually happened; Powwow highway is a comedy film and Philbert is not presented as someone who exists in real life, he is only a character in a movie. Go rent the movie and watch it before you start throwing accusations about it - you are only making yourself look more ignorant every time you post

I guess sizzle still thinks Powwow Highway is a documentary

Quote from: Cetan on August 25, 2009, 09:54:33 PM
I guess sizzle still thinks Powwow Highway is a documentary

No, but David Seals cites it in his credentials to write about real shamanism as the "Native American Shamanism Examiner": "His novel The Powwow Highway, which George Harrison made into a feature film of the same name, follows the modern adventures of a shaman from Montana to New Mexico."

So if you're saying he's only a comic novelist and doesn't claim any more.... Wrong.

Quote from: Sizzle Flambé on August 25, 2009, 10:21:08 PM

Quote from: Cetan on August 25, 2009, 09:54:33 PM
I guess sizzle still thinks Powwow Highway is a documentary

No, but David Seals cites it in his credentials to write about real shamanism as the "Native American Shamanism Examiner": "His novel The Powwow Highway, which George Harrison made into a feature film of the same name, follows the modern adventures of a shaman from Montana to New Mexico."

So if you're saying he's only a comic novelist and doesn't claim any more.... Wrong.

Honestly....a "My bio" blurb written in the third person doesn't really prove that he's claiming anything.  Also the title "Native American Shamanism Examiner" is also kind of dubious proof of anything.  The website is Examiner.com...all the authors are some type of examiner...Political examiner, Christian religion examiner, marriage examiner...etc....the title could be there out of a lack of choices..as in "Native American spirituality and political examiner" was already taken or something.  I agree with you I don't like the use of the word "shamanism" next to "Native American", but it seems sometimes the authors have little choice in that matter if they want to write there.  You're also leaving out the part of the blurb where it's written that he has Huron-Cheyenne heritage...a claim you made earlier that he always puts Huron or Cheyenne but "NEVER" both seems to have been forgotten.

I'm sitting here with my objective face on...I don't really see what you're seeing and I believe this is more of a personal battle between you two than anything.  The articles by Seals on the site are well written, the subjects are valid and he examines them pretty well. 

I'm not arguing your right to dislike the guy or what he's about.....but I'm not seeing anything that says fraud or a plastic shaman selling ceremonies and the corollary to Castaneda and Lynn Andrews doesn't fly as well......the character Philbert.....well....you'd really have to read the book and you might see for yourself how he can't be mistaken for anything but what he is...the movie doesn't even really do him justice.....they leave out a bunch of stuff to make the film more friendly to a movie audience.

But I'll leave it all alone.  I could be wrong and I'm always open to that, I'm just saying that as far as Seals goes you really haven't convinced me with what you've presented.

Superdog

Quote from: Superdog on August 25, 2009, 11:07:03 PM
You're also leaving out the part of the blurb where it's written that he has Huron-Cheyenne heritage...a claim you made earlier that he always puts Huron or Cheyenne but "NEVER" both seems to have been forgotten.

You put "NEVER" in quote marks, as if that's a direct quote.

If you're going to imply dishonesty, why use false quotation to do it?

Quote from: Sizzle Flambé on August 19, 2009, 03:15:10 PM
For instance, in sourced quotes at the link I posted, <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-indian>, or which you can find by Googling, "Native American author" Seals is variously identified as Huron or Cheyenne (not as "both" in any source), "Cheyenne" when his Cheyenne-character books came out, and "Huron" later on.

Later I came across an additional site:

Quote from: Sizzle Flambé on August 19, 2009, 06:10:49 PM
The really big excuse for not even looking at him is that he's not NAFPS's concern at all unless his authorship veers from comedy novels into shamanism, right?

<http://www.examiner.com/x-7919-Phoenix-Native-American-Shamanism-Examiner>
David Seals
Phoenix Native American Shamanism Examiner

Next excuse...?

So your complaint is that at 9:15 am I didn't yet know what I knew at 12:10 pm?

Quote from: Sizzle Flambé on August 26, 2009, 01:11:16 AM

Quote from: Superdog on August 25, 2009, 11:07:03 PM
You're also leaving out the part of the blurb where it's written that he has Huron-Cheyenne heritage...a claim you made earlier that he always puts Huron or Cheyenne but "NEVER" both seems to have been forgotten.

You put "NEVER" in quote marks, as if that's a direct quote.

If you're going to imply dishonesty, why use false quotation to do it?

sorry for the misunderstanding.  the quotes shouldn't have been there....i was trying add emphasis where i really didn't need any.   my apologies.  I do not imply that you are dishonest at all (again i apologize if you misunderstood me)....simply a little overly biased when it comes to Seals.  But like I've been saying, I don't know the guy, I just don't get the same conclusion out of the information you've presented.  In fact, the info you've presented when you explore it further makes the case for him that he writes well and he's knowledgeable about his subjects, so the end result of whatever he might claim is that he makes quality work and that gains points with me.  But I do concede that I could always be wrong....I am human.  No excuses here...I simply disagree with you on this one subject.

Superdog

I think she just want to argue
maybe she thinks this site is like a mesage or chat board where they exchange
angry words between each other.

Quote from: earthw7 on August 26, 2009, 11:02:36 PM
I think she just want to argue
maybe she thinks this site is like a mesage or chat board where they exchange
angry words between each other.

Take that up with...

Quote from: Cetan on August 20, 2009, 01:59:06 AM
The only sizzle I smell here is bacon, oink oink

cetan is my friend i have no argue

Now back to what this post is about
an Introducation who are?

What tribal nation are you from or not?

wopila earth7

Quote from: earthw7 on August 27, 2009, 09:25:21 PM
What tribal nation are you from or not?

Not.

Quote from: Superdog on August 25, 2009, 11:07:03 PM
Honestly....a "My bio" blurb written in the third person doesn't really prove that he's claiming anything.

Then who do you think wrote "My Bio"? Third-person is standard format.

Quote
Also the title "Native American Shamanism Examiner" is also kind of dubious proof of anything.

His sequel Sweet Medicine is flacked with the blurb: "A novel of modern confrontation between Indians and Anglos, by the Native American author of The Powwow Highway". (Google Search: <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-na-author>)

You think they snuck that through without his approval?

<http://www.ragbaby.com/magazine/19990618c.htm>: The Peace Pipe in Powwow Highway
"Based on the 1979 novel by David Seals, a member of the American Indian Movement (AIM) and the Cheyenne Nation,...."

Who gave them that idea? Do you think they just made it up?

<http://www.ipl.org/div/natam/bin/browse.pl/A461>: Native American Authors Project
"David Seals , 1947-
"Huron
"Davydd ap Saille (the spelling used by the author) is a talented Huron novelist, publisher (Sky and Sage Books), freelance journalist, playwright, and documentary video producer."

Who do you think provided them with all that info?

<http://www.coloradoaim.org/why.html> -- footnote # 11:
"As the noted Paiute poet/novelist Adrian C. Lewis put it in a letter to Churchill on Sept. 21, 1992 (copy on file), 'David Seals...now has a sequel to Pow Wow Highway out. Although he claims AIM connections, etc., he is really not an Indian. He's a new age weirdo and a terrible writer at that.'"

Despite all those claims, "David Seals...is really not an Indian."

So somebody's been telling a lot of lies, haven't they? Who?

Quote from: Sizzle Flambé on August 28, 2009, 08:08:03 AM

Quote from: Superdog on August 25, 2009, 11:07:03 PM
Honestly....a "My bio" blurb written in the third person doesn't really prove that he's claiming anything.

Then who do you think wrote "My Bio"? Third-person is standard format.

Quote
Also the title "Native American Shamanism Examiner" is also kind of dubious proof of anything.

His sequel Sweet Medicine is flacked with the blurb: "A novel of modern confrontation between Indians and Anglos, by the Native American author of The Powwow Highway". (Google Search: <http://tinyurl.com/daveseals-faux-na-author>)

You think they snuck that through without his approval?

<http://www.ragbaby.com/magazine/19990618c.htm>: The Peace Pipe in Powwow Highway
"Based on the 1979 novel by David Seals, a member of the American Indian Movement (AIM) and the Cheyenne Nation,...."

Who gave them that idea? Do you think they just made it up?

<http://www.ipl.org/div/natam/bin/browse.pl/A461>: Native American Authors Project
"David Seals , 1947-
"Huron
"Davydd ap Saille (the spelling used by the author) is a talented Huron novelist, publisher (Sky and Sage Books), freelance journalist, playwright, and documentary video producer."

Who do you think provided them with all that info?

<http://www.coloradoaim.org/why.html> -- footnote # 11:
"As the noted Paiute poet/novelist Adrian C. Lewis put it in a letter to Churchill on Sept. 21, 1992 (copy on file), 'David Seals...now has a sequel to Pow Wow Highway out. Although he claims AIM connections, etc., he is really not an Indian. He's a new age weirdo and a terrible writer at that.'"

Despite all those claims, "David Seals...is really not an Indian."

So somebody's been telling a lot of lies, haven't they? Who?

Seems like you're spending a lot of time with me trying to prove I'm wrong.  My stance is....I currently have no stance so you're spinning your wheels. 

What it boils down for me is that I don't care if he's enrolled somewhere or not, enrollment doesn't define a person's culture.  I have several friends who aren't enrolled, can't be enrolled, but they've been raised within their culture, speak their language and they are recognized by their community as one of them....there's absolutely no doubt that they are Indian, however.  He gets it right when it comes to Indian humor, he writes articles that are very knowledgeable of his subjects.  He's a little out there with the alien abduction stuff, but a person can make a healthy career out of that kind of writing...ask Whitley Strieber.

So again, (one more time) it seems this is more of a battle on a personal level between the two of you (in fact it's obvious).  It's really up to the Huron and Cheyenne if they wanna claim him or not....not me, not you, so this is really a pointless conversation and it's obvious we're gonna run this circle over and over again.  If you wanna be right on this subject Sizzle then take solace in the fact that I haven't proved you wrong and I can't prove you wrong....so from your perspective you are right.  However, from mine, I just don't draw the same conclusions you do and that's certainly within my rights to do so, but (again) I could be wrong.....and if I ever come to that conclusion, you'll be the first person I'll post to.

Superdog

this should be in research topic