Author Topic: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?  (Read 91317 times)

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #90 on: March 30, 2007, 06:42:11 pm »
Tansi;

While we keep hearing about the "Southern Metis" the true Metis people do not give credibility to those who choose to misuse our name, in order to appear to make claims about Aboriginal ancestry without having any historical claim to our Culture, Language or Heritage.

Metis people did not and do not have "Hereditary Chiefs".  We elect our leadership, based on democratic principles.  Our distinct Culture has been the result of centuries of living, as a distinct Culture.

At Batoche, we often find people claiming to be Metis, who end up really feeling out of place, among our people. 

Stop stealing my Heritage and Culture and distorting it to suit your selfish purposes!

Ric

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #91 on: March 30, 2007, 10:39:14 pm »
I think you should answer them. You seem to be the resident expert on all aboriginal cultures to include definitions. 

I'll take that as an acknowledgment you can't answer them.

I'm not a resident expert on all aboriginal cultures and have never claimed to be.  Your attempt to turn the discussion away from the legitimacy of your "nation" looks, frankly, goofy.  I know my culture and do not appreciate people who think that one very distant Cherokee ancestor makes them Cherokee unless the cultural connections have been maintained all along or unless (in some cases) there has been a genuine effort to live among Cherokee people today.

For example, I have one distant German ancestor.  If I wanted to learn about being German I would go to Germany, not find other vaguely German-descended people and found our own "Deutschland," declaring it a sovereign nation.  That would be absurd.

I heard thirdhand your "chief" (or maybe it was one of the other "SCN" chiefs) has been wearing an owl bone necklace.   I wonder if that's true and if it's your chief, but I imagine if I asked, or asked you if you knew why that creeped out the person who relayed it to me, you would just ignore the question.

Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #92 on: March 31, 2007, 01:16:30 am »
Tansi;

While we keep hearing about the "Southern Metis" the true Metis people do not give credibility to those who choose to misuse our name, in order to appear to make claims about Aboriginal ancestry without having any historical claim to our Culture, Language or Heritage.

Metis people did not and do not have "Hereditary Chiefs".  We elect our leadership, based on democratic principles.  Our distinct Culture has been the result of centuries of living, as a distinct Culture.

At Batoche, we often find people claiming to be Metis, who end up really feeling out of place, among our people. 

Stop stealing my Heritage and Culture and distorting it to suit your selfish purposes!

Ric

mé·tis (m??-t?s', -t?')
n., pl. métis (-t?s', -t?z').
A person of mixed racial ancestry.
often Métis A person of mixed Native American and French-Canadian ancestry.
A crossbred animal.
[Canadian French, from Old French metis, of mixed race, from Late Latin mixt?cius, mixed. See mestizo.]

I never said that the Metis had inherited Chiefs and I do not have to give up my mixed blood heritage. You do not have exclusive rights to the word Metis/Mestizo as it has been around for eons.

Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #93 on: March 31, 2007, 02:08:33 am »
I think you should answer them. You seem to be the resident expert on all aboriginal cultures to include definitions. 

I'll take that as an acknowledgment you can't answer them.

I'm not a resident expert on all aboriginal cultures and have never claimed to be.  Your attempt to turn the discussion away from the legitimacy of your "nation" looks, frankly, goofy.  I know my culture and do not appreciate people who think that one very distant Cherokee ancestor makes them Cherokee unless the cultural connections have been maintained all along or unless (in some cases) there has been a genuine effort to live among Cherokee people today.

For example, I have one distant German ancestor.  If I wanted to learn about being German I would go to Germany, not find other vaguely German-descended people and found our own "Deutschland," declaring it a sovereign nation.  That would be absurd.

I heard thirdhand your "chief" (or maybe it was one of the other "SCN" chiefs) has been wearing an owl bone necklace.   I wonder if that's true and if it's your chief, but I imagine if I asked, or asked you if you knew why that creeped out the person who relayed it to me, you would just ignore the question.

Buffalo

One drop of Cherokee blood makes a Cherokee; it is very powerful……I do not need your approval or validation.  I was sealed by my Cherokee family.  Only greedy government agents and racists are concerned about blood quantum levels.

PS – Braves do not listen to Gossip 

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #94 on: March 31, 2007, 02:41:39 am »
Tansi;

BH you have misused a very strong Cultural identification, by claiming that Metis is just a mix of Aboriginal and non-native.  Our people have, over centuries, developed a very distinct Culture.

In the Canadian Constitution, there are three recognized Aborinal people, the Indian, Inuit and Metis.  It is truly unfortunate that you do not come from a distinct Culture, but stop trying to damage those of us who have lived our entire lives as Metis!

I live in a distinct Metis community, in northern Saskatchewan.  We recognize that there are many Metis people, but do not appreciate the misappopriation of our Culture by wannabees.

Credibility, you have not achieved! Stop the disrespect!

Ric


Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #95 on: March 31, 2007, 02:43:50 am »
Tansi;

While we keep hearing about the "Southern Metis" the true Metis people do not give credibility to those who choose to misuse our name, in order to appear to make claims about Aboriginal ancestry without having any historical claim to our Culture, Language or Heritage.

Metis people did not and do not have "Hereditary Chiefs".  We elect our leadership, based on democratic principles.  Our distinct Culture has been the result of centuries of living, as a distinct Culture.

At Batoche, we often find people claiming to be Metis, who end up really feeling out of place, among our people. 

Stop stealing my Heritage and Culture and distorting it to suit your selfish purposes!

Ric

mé·tis (m??-t?s', -t?')
n., pl. métis (-t?s', -t?z').
A person of mixed racial ancestry.
often Métis A person of mixed Native American and French-Canadian ancestry.
A crossbred animal.
[Canadian French, from Old French metis, of mixed race, from Late Latin mixt?cius, mixed. See mestizo.]

I never said that the Metis had inherited Chiefs and I do not have to give up my mixed blood heritage. You do not have exclusive rights to the word Metis/Mestizo as it has been around for eons.


Naw, the term's only been around since there were French people in the new world.

Your rule is that if a term literally translated to something else, and you qualify as that something else, you can apply the original word to yourself and cultural context be damned.

So, let's apply that rule.

"Dine" literally translates to "people," and you are a person, so you can now call yourself Navajo and not feel bad.  That would make exactly as much sense as calling yourself Metis with a big M.  Metis are a specific culture, not a generic category.

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #96 on: March 31, 2007, 02:52:08 am »

One drop of Cherokee blood makes a Cherokee; it is very powerful……I do not need your approval or validation.  I was sealed by my Cherokee family.  Only greedy government agents and racists are concerned about blood quantum levels.

PS – Braves do not listen to Gossip 


If you don't need approval, why are you here?

Blood (traditionally and for many people still blood from a Cherokee MOTHER) and culture together make a person Cherokee.  Blood alone will never be enough except for those who wish to play Cherokee without the real hard work of following and adapting culture within a dominant society (or the hard work of not having white privilege).

You are hilarious.  I'm guessing you haven't met many "braves."

Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #97 on: March 31, 2007, 03:14:42 am »

One drop of Cherokee blood makes a Cherokee; it is very powerful……I do not need your approval or validation.  I was sealed by my Cherokee family.  Only greedy government agents and racists are concerned about blood quantum levels.

PS – Braves do not listen to Gossip 


If you don't need approval, why are you here?

Blood (traditionally and for many people still blood from a Cherokee MOTHER) and culture together make a person Cherokee.  Blood alone will never be enough except for those who wish to play Cherokee without the real hard work of following and adapting culture within a dominant society (or the hard work of not having white privilege).

You are hilarious.  I'm guessing you haven't met many "braves."

I have a Cherokee maternal connection. 4 out of 4 of grandparents have Cherokee blood. In other words, I was raised by Cherokee/Melungeon people. If it is in your character to gossip then continue to do so. 

Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #98 on: March 31, 2007, 03:19:51 am »
Tansi;

BH you have misused a very strong Cultural identification, by claiming that Metis is just a mix of Aboriginal and non-native.  Our people have, over centuries, developed a very distinct Culture.

In the Canadian Constitution, there are three recognized Aborinal people, the Indian, Inuit and Metis.  It is truly unfortunate that you do not come from a distinct Culture, but stop trying to damage those of us who have lived our entire lives as Metis!

I live in a distinct Metis community, in northern Saskatchewan.  We recognize that there are many Metis people, but do not appreciate the misappopriation of our Culture by wannabees.

Credibility, you have not achieved! Stop the disrespect!

Ric



"To be Melungeon is to be Metis. Metis is derived from a French word meaning Mixed. And if Melungeons are anything—they are Mixed.

I became interested in the Metis because I am always on the lookout for groups that celebrate the heritage of ethnically/racially mixed people. It is especially important for groups to make available opportunities to celebrate heritage for the many folks of mixed ancestry. The same principle that brought me to the Melungeons caught my interest regarding the Metis.

The Metis are best known historically as a mixed breed of people in Canada, particularly from the Red River area. But in recent years the Metis Movement has spread to the USA with individuals and groups in the United States looking for a way to celebrate their mixed ancestry. The American Metis Movement has now grown in this nation as a way to identify mixed ethnic/racial ancestry, particularly that of mixed European and American Indian heritage.

Melungeons have a rich and interesting history. My ancestor Martin Branham was in the Hawkins/Hancock County area of Tennessee at an early stage of the forming of Melungeons in that particular area, circa 1800. I am proud of my Melungeon heritage and always will be.

My Melungeon heritage also falls under the larger banner of Metis or métis, as it is an ethnically/racially mixed ancestry. Here might be a good place to draw a distinction between the Canadian Metis, and the southern, or American Metis. A distinction should be made because despite similarities of being ethnically mixed, the Canadian Metis have their own unique history and background that is separate from other ethnically mixed individuals and communities. The term Metis that I am speaking of regarding Melungeons is separate from our northern neighbors. I am talking about a generic term for ethnically mixed people, a label classification rather than a specific historic people. Metis with a small "m" métis, is the technical term for ethnically mixed groups. I use the capital "M" simply because most people do not recognize any difference between the small or large case meaning, and because some American Metis groups do use the large case spelling. That makes it even more important that we draw a distinction between the southern and northern Metis. So understand that my use of this word is not to take away from our northern ethnically mixed Canadian neighbors. And it should also be understood that I am not co-opting the word, because many American Metis in the lower 48 States are already using the term Metis to relate their mixed aboriginal heritage.

The term Metis allows me to celebrate all my ancestry, which includes German, English, Irish, Cherokee, Melungeon and other heritage. That is what I like about the American Metis definition, it being inclusive, it is a win/win situation that recognizes my Melungeon ancestry and my other heritage as well, all under the banner of Metis."


Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #99 on: March 31, 2007, 04:33:00 am »
Tansi;

Even though there are many, especially in the USA, who fraudulently use the term Metis to try to achieve recognition as Aboriginal people, we Metis people, like many of the other Aboriginal peoples who have had their names misused, take offence at your attempts to gain credibility on our coat tails.

I know that there are many people who try to claim status, as Aboriginals due to a lack in their own lives and Cultures.

This does not make it acceptable to claim the efforts and blood of my people!

We are not just a mixed blooded people.  In my own case, my Cree relatives also Respect my being Metis, based on Cree and non-native ancestry, history and Heritage.

Also, there are real Metis people, living in the USA, who descended from our own Metis people, and who would also likely take offence at your abuse of our name.

Why don't you just call yourselves mongrels and leave it at that!

Ric

frederica

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #100 on: March 31, 2007, 05:27:00 am »
One of the problems I see with the Mestee in the U.S. is there is no specific Nation by that name. There are some from Canada or from around the Northern border states that are recognized. But it is a culture, not just a mixing of races, as the term is used in the U.S.  The Melungeons are a true tri-racial mix, but it depends on who they wish to identify with. This is an old argument, and it varies from individual to individual. http://www.darkfiber.com/blackirish/melongeons.html    frederica

frederica

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Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #102 on: March 31, 2007, 05:57:17 am »
Tansi;

Even though there are many, especially in the USA, who fraudulently use the term Metis to try to achieve recognition as Aboriginal people, we Metis people, like many of the other Aboriginal peoples who have had their names misused, take offence at your attempts to gain credibility on our coat tails.

The (Metis Nation of the South) MNS does not seek nor want "recognition" from any "federal" government. We do not want any "federal" benefits or monies. We consider CDIB cards (Certificates of Degree of Indian Blood) issued by the BIA in the U.S. as a continuing genocidal effort by the federal government to "solve the Indian problem."


Buffaloheart

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #103 on: March 31, 2007, 06:19:21 am »
Why don't you just call yourselves mongrels and leave it at that!

Ric
[/quote]

Walter Plecker's racist crusade against Virginia's Native Americans.
 
"Some of these mongrels, finding that they have been able to sneak in their birth certificates
unchallenged as Indians, are now making a rush to register as white." -- W.A. Plecker


http://www.mitsawokett.com/Plecker.htm

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #104 on: March 31, 2007, 12:00:28 pm »
"We consider CDIB cards (Certificates of Degree of Indian Blood) issued by the BIA in the U.S. as a continuing genocidal effort by the federal government"

That kind of hysterical claim signals to most NDNs that this is being said by someone who has little idea what true genocide is. It makes it far harder for nonNatives to take it serious when NDNs talk about *actual* genocide.

The "not wanting recognition" bit is often a way to avoid admitting they could never get recognition anyway because the ties to actual Native communities or ancestors are often very distant.

Many of the "southern Metis" or "US Metis" groups (outside of the actual Metis communities in the US living near Canada) often are just heritage groups of PODIAs passing along misinformation and sometimes Nuage ideas. The practice of PODIAs calling themselves "Metis" comes straight from Nuage exploiter Hyemeyohosts Storm, who incidentally is now in hiding from child molesting charges according to ex members of his inner circle.