Author Topic: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?  (Read 72222 times)

Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« on: November 21, 2006, 03:47:30 am »
Anyone know anything about them?

I ran into a guy claiming to be their chief, and something about him just seemed off.  He was saying correct things about Cherokee ways, but inappropriately, if you know what I mean.  I don't know if he's just a big talker or a fraud, but he's wandering around my part of the woods a lot lately, so I'd appreciate any information folks have. 

walking-soft

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2006, 06:44:34 am »
 Do You know what he calls himself??? Do you mind sharing what part of KY you are speaking of. That would be very helpful information.

                                                                    Thanks  :)

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2006, 01:59:45 pm »
Calls himself "Chief Manfox" and I believe is in the Henderson (Hendersonville?), KY, area.


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2006, 04:16:39 pm »
http://www.southerncherokeenation.net/history2.htm
"A brief history of how we ended up in KY. In 1866, after the civil war, the Southern Cherokee people established a government in Webbers Falls, Oklahoma. We were half bloods and mixed blood Cherokee. Our Chief was Stand Watie. He asked the U.S. government to provide protection for the Southern Cherokee & from the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma; the full bloods. They burnt our homes and killed our people; the Union Army said that they didn't have the troops to protect us. Some of us stayed in the Webbers Falls area, while many of us moved to other states; while still keeping our government that we established. A few of these states are Missouri, Arkansas, Indiana, Illinois, Tennessee, and Kentucky. We are still Cherokee people and proud. We ask now that you recognize us as the Cherokee people that we are. We have a government here in Kentucky, and have been here since the late 1800's, but we have people all over the United States. Our people have existed since 1835 as the Treaty Party/Southern Cherokee.

The Southern Cherokee became the Lost Cherokee Community as depicted in the Kana'sta Legend of old. While many Southern Cherokees continued to live in the Canadian District, yet many other of these mixed-blood Cherokee, lived apart from their Eastern and Western Brothers in all 50 states. Our Southern Cherokee members have never relinquished or forsaken the core Cherokee citizenship or heritage. These mixed-bloods now are aggressively reviving the finer elements of their traditional culture that may have been temporarily set aside.

In 1906, thousands of these Mixed-Blood Cherokee descendants, listed in an 8 volume set of books titled "Cherokee by blood," attempted to rejoin their brothers, but the U.S.'s Miller Commission forbade inclusion for various reasons. Now most of these clearly Documented Cherokee by blood are forbidden membership within the Cherokee Nation due to "BIA Blood Percentages" originally used by the U.S. Government for racial genocide, and the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma's (CNO's) Rigid application of the Dawes (only) descendent requirements (Article 3 of the 1975 Constitution), in direct violation of the 1866 Treaty obligations to the Southern Cherokee, which recognized the Southern Cherokee as a Separate Band of the Cherokee Nation with the Right to Representation on the Cherokee National Council.

If you are a mixed-blood descendant of the Cherokee, and would like to re-associate with and learn more about your Cherokee Heritage and culture, you may do so as a member of the Southern Cherokee Nation.

Although you Must Document your lineage, the Southern Cherokee Nation does not require Dawes Roll lineage as a membership requirement. Rather, Blood line must be established through your Cherokee Lineage.  Southern Cherokee Membership cannot be purchased, and is given freely to those of documented Cherokee lineage."

Most of that is correct if extremely slanted history, but mixed in with some pretty disputed claims. None of that explains how they ended up in Kentucky. It's just the usual claim of having to hide out.

But the twist this time is that they were supposedly hiding out from the allegedly mean old fullbloods. Never mind that the Southern Cherokee were led by people who despised their Cherokee heritage and blood and worked hard to assimilate. Never mind that Watie was the initiator of violence and did most of it, and that he kept fighting long aftet the war ended just to get a promise of no retaliation from Ross's party. Never mind that the Ross party kept their promise and reintegrated many of the Southern Cherokee. Most of those who refused to rejoin the nation we know exactly what happened to them. They became culturally white and never looked back.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2006, 04:34:03 pm »
Found this. There are two would be Southern Cherokees of Kentucky, one now based in OK. (?!)

Keep in mind the source here. We found old Weylin's alleged "band." I broke it into paragraphs instead of one long rant.

http://indianz.com/board/post.asp?method=ReplyQuote&REPLY_ID=485441&TOPIC_ID=11749&FORUM_ID=5
"Originally posted by Weylin Lighteagle[/i]

Osiyo: Concerning Brent Gill and family and the REAl legal Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma. I thought this may help you all out who are trying to wade thru the bs of the Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma. Over the past couple years there has been a lot of corruption going on within the Southern Cherokee government and thousands of dollars were taken by a phoney imposter named Gary Wayne and about 6 or 7 of his cohorts.

There has in the past 14 months been a series of federal prosecutions of these people, in Federal Court in Oklahoma, Muskogee, and in South Bend Indiania. Some two months ago the Griggs family were prosecuted in South Bend and found Guilty as hell on some 74 counts of fraud, all felonies. The four of them are to be sentenced next month , and Roger Griggs is facing up to 200 years in Federal prison, his wife about 95 possible years, and two other members of their family 10 to 21 years.

Brent Gill is a white attorney with no proof of blood at all who was appointed by con man imposter now banished forever ex Chief Gary WAyne Ridge to be the Chief Justice, along with his brothers and cousins and all the Gill kin people they could muster up to keep crook Gary Ridge in power. All the crooks have been banished out of the Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma tribe, and are now being investigated and systematically prosecuted by the US Justice Dept, and con man Gary Wayne Ridge and his wife are going be arrested and charged with some 700 felonies later this year along with one Judy Gunier who had been appointed treasurer and helped scam off some 300 grand out of the tribal building funds. 

The Southern Cherokee of Oklahoma has reformed it government  this past year and has filed a letter of intent for Fed RECogniton- and their rights under some 8 provisions under the 1866 treaty with the Cherokee were deemed by a Federal Court Judge as Totally Legitmate as a seperate tribe from the now CNO or UKB, whose rights have never been abrogated, though signed and agreed to , had yet never been honored and still pending. Brent Gill is scared poopless that he and his bunch of family members may be prosecuted as well, and does not have anything to do with the Southern Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma.

THough there are several groups claiming to be the Southern Cherokee Nation in different states , and several claiming to be the Southern BAnds of Cherokees, they are all bogus and not the ones on the 1866 Treaty. Gary Ridges old Southern Cherokee Nation website is still on the web showing him as chief of the SCN. because the Federal Courts have also been using it as part of an evidence trail in various court trials, and The FBI suggested that the real Southern Cherokee tribe not have it removed for now.

There have been several Federal law enforcement raids over the past recent months such as one in Louisania where Southern Cherokee Nation membership cards were being sold for 25 dollars a piece to anyone  who had the money, and the funds were then funneled back to Gary Ridge , who has been banished for months and going to be indicated later on this year. Some ten thousand id cards were confiscated and 19 grand in cash in this recent raid. Hundreds of thousands of id cards have been sold fraudulent that are completely worthless as to tribal membership legal.

I was told by a rep. of the real Southern Cherokee Nation tribe that currently there are only 150 members of their tribe , and that probably there is only about perhaps 150 more people in the US that can qualify and document their lineage to that tribe's direct blood ancestors, and that they are still cooperating and assisting the Bia, FBI, US POSTAL Inspectors, US Marshals , and Washington DC officials to bring these last 5 or 6 criminals to justice. THe real legal Southern Cherokee Tribal address is PO Box 581 Webbers Falls Oklahoma."

Meanwhile, back at the other SC of KY site, their newsletter says they are suing of the SC of KY based on OK for slander.

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2006, 04:45:50 pm »
Educated Indian,

Whew!  Thanks for all that info!  Reading about all these purported SCNs is making me dizzy.

I think the historical stuff with Watie is going to just look like an inter-tribal squabble to naive government officials in Indiana (they're trying to recreate the state Indian Affairs Commission and keep putting frauds on it--which is especially awful since there is talk of empowering the Indiana IAC to recognize tribes), so I'm still looking for something that really naive, yet politically powerful, white people can readily categorize as new age or fraudulent about this group.

frederica

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2006, 07:47:01 am »
What I remember of this group, is they were in KY. They tried to open a casino in the Southeast on the coast and were denied. Then came Webber Fall. They were going to open a casino on a riverboat on the Arkansas River. They claimed to be Federally Recognized by the Treaty of 1866, but that didn't work. They could not even put the land into trust let alone open a casino. Then came the Car Tags, and that didn't fly either. I believe they had to sell them as vanity plates.  They have applied for Federal Recognition, but that can take years. It looks like they have splintered but I think they were one group until about 6 or 7 years ago. That's about when all this started. They have always claimed to be an independent Nation. frederica

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2006, 02:43:04 pm »
Found another group calling itself Cherokee Tribe of Kentucky.

http://www.winterstubes.com/tribalindex.html
"FROM THE CHIEF
After reading some comments in a recent e-mail I feel that it is necessary to make sure that there are no misunderstandings about the Cherokee Tribe of Kentucky.
1. We are exactly what we say we are; a Tribe of mixed blood Tsalagi
who have banded together to perpetuate the culture, history,traditions and ceremonies of the Tsalagi.
2. We are NOT federally recognized, we have not filed for, nor do we have any desire or intention to file for federal recognition. We know who we are and we do not need the federal government  to tell us who we are. We have no desire to deprive anyone of money or benefits they receive from the federal government.
3. We do not have State Recognition. However, once the criteria for State Recognition in Kentucky are established the Tribe will make the decision whether to apply or not.
Marty Martin
Principal Chief
Cherokee Tribe of Kentucky
We are mixed-blood Tsalagi whose ancestors either managed some how to escape the Removal or were able to return to their homes after the Removal. We have banded together to perpetuate the culture, history, tradition and ceremonies of the Tsalagi....
"Cherokee Tribe of Kentucky" is incorporated in Kentucky as a charitable, educational organization. We are a member of the Circle of Wisdom Unity Council of Kentucky.Our Tribal Office is located at:
5411 Laureltree Place
Louisville,Ky. 40229
You may e-mail the Chief at this address..MartySoaringEgle@aol.com
Enrollment in the "Cherokee Tribe of Kentucky" is open to anyone with Cherokee blood."

And the group simply called "Southern Cherokee" denounced the SC of KY (the first group mentioned, not this group above.)

http://southerncherokee.com/
"Groups fraudulently claiming to be the SOUTHERN CHEROKEE include, but are not limited to:

The Southern Cherokee Nation (SCN) and Various Groups
Southern Cherokee OK
Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky

These fraudulent groups continue to operate despite numerous complaints given to the United States Government from the SOUTHERN CHEROKEE Government. The SOUTHERN CHEROKEE Government considers the continued operations of these fraudulent groups as being condoned by the United States Government and is being used as a diversionary tactic to steer legitimate Cherokee away from the legitimate SOUTHERN CHEROKEE Government and to obstruct the building process of the SOUTHERN CHEROKEE."

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2006, 12:53:09 am »
Thanks for the information.  You can almost smell the paranoia rolling off the quote from that last group you posted about!  Blegh.

frederica

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #9 on: November 28, 2006, 08:51:39 pm »
here is another fairly new post on the Southern Cherokee Nation. http://www.southerncherokeenation.net/oct_2006_letter_to_the_people.htm frederica

weheli

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #10 on: November 28, 2006, 10:00:10 pm »
Needs More Caf,
Have you heard of anyone named Harold Young in your neck of the woods? He insists there is a Cherokee Tribe in KY and has always been! My Great Grandfather and GGrandma always said there were bands that would come and go, she was Cherokee. They never talked of a tribe.

                                                                        Weheli

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2006, 10:14:45 pm »
There used to be a guy that posted on alt.native that was a Kentucky Cherokee. His tribe had always been there. He could name his ancestors and knew his culture, language and traditions.

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2006, 10:18:35 pm »
Needs More Caf,
Have you heard of anyone named Harold Young in your neck of the woods? He insists there is a Cherokee Tribe in KY and has always been! My Great Grandfather and GGrandma always said there were bands that would come and go, she was Cherokee. They never talked of a tribe.

                                                                        Weheli

I had heard that small groups that went through northern KY, too (not my family, but other families), and more in southern KY, although--like you said--not a tribe. Certainly Cherokees were in the area visiting other tribes and hunting.  I think the SCN that I posted about claims they were part of Stand Watie's secessionists and just stayed around after everyone else in the CNO went back to OK.

I haven't heard of Harold Young, that I know of, but names slip out of my mind faster than they used to! :-)


Offline lostcherokee

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2006, 05:19:38 pm »
it seems this manfox has 2 documents on his web site one from the sen.Mcconnell and the other from govenor flector  half way stating that kentucky regonizes them

weheli

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Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #14 on: December 17, 2006, 07:02:18 pm »
 Do you have the link to his site? I would be much interested to read it.
                                                                       Thanks/Wado  Weheli