Author Topic: The anti derailment thread.  (Read 8599 times)

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
The anti derailment thread.
« on: May 28, 2009, 09:29:41 pm »
 Tachia,

  I have not said anything about anyone on this board for a while now. In fact I have even kept out of this thread for a long time.

  Have I given some pretty harsh criticism of some of the people here including Dr. Al? Of course I have,  and I didn't hide that. I was pissed when he put a  friend of mines  full name up here when we were worried about the actions of one of your friends considering the constant threats they give people.  I was also mad when I felt like he was accusing me of lying about the threats your friend  was sending me. There is a lot of things I don't like, and given that people involved in this have threatened me with violence before....how can you blame me when I was being censored so much here?

  I have proven that these threats were actually made....would you like to see them? I have  personally shown Dr.Al at least one of them. I have since then dropped my grievances with Dr. Al and this board despite this "research" being done in this thread.

 As a matter of fact I have been on Indianz.com only a short time  ago defending this board, even if I do not agree with EVERYTHING that goes on here.

 If you want the links to those instances in which I defended this board in recent times, I can provide them to you. In fact I have let a few people here including Dr.Al know about it,and what was going on over on Indianz.com, in regards to the attacks being done on this board by Betsy Ashby AKA Guardian. I also informed at least one woman here that she was being attacked personally by Guardian. I have proof of that all.

 In short Tachia, you are bringing up things that were said nearly 3 months ago, and were more directed at YOU then anyone else.

  As I have said before I don't care for this investigation, but I have no ill will or even anger at Dr. Al or anyone else on this board. I will admit I do not like you, Walks, or Brenda. I Have my opinions of each and every one of you, but I will not express them out of respect for others here. Besides,  you are already well familiar my opinion of all three of you.

  My opinion of Dr. Al at this time is that he is trying to protect people from exploiters, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever.

  As for Moma  Porcupine....I can say I enjoy speaking with her as well. In fact I have read some past threads on this site, and they have made me understand completely the true meaning of the word PODIA.  That acronym I think you have taken and ran all over myspace using incorrectly for God knows how long, against anyone that you don't like.

 I do know that a few of my "friends" have continued to go around bashing on this board, and the people here. I am not now, nor have ever been their keeper. So you can not blame me for anything they say, as they have a mind of their own.

 Nor can you blame Cat Carnes for what I say, or for what any of us who don't like YOU have to say. We have a mind of our own period. I don't listen to anyone, and nor do I answer to anyone when it comes to what I say on NAPFS. In regards to this dispute and the investigation here...my words and actions are my own doing and nothing else.

 Even if I had never spoken to the Carnes I would be questioning what is going on in the EMC thread due to the actions of your friends and yourself. Honestly more the actions of one of your friends then you, but then again the apple doesn't fall far from the tree now does it? Bottom line is that I am very much solo on most of what I say and think in regards to the EMC thread.

 I also find your accusations about Cat Carnes going all over the internet and making statements about this board to be false, when I have not seen one instance of her doing that in recent times. Neither can you provide evidence that she has, because it is not true. Just like it is not true that I have been running around the Net attacking this site.

 In recent times I have been on Indianz.com defending this site and it's members from false statements and attacks put forth by Betsy Ashby AKA Guardian who actually has ties to you, and I can prove that. Wanna try me on that one lady? So I am guilty of both defending this site and criticizing in the past. No secret there.

 I do notice that you use my real first name on this site as much as you can. Have you not informed Dr.Al that I do not like you using it, and that you do it to  incite me?

 If you have some issues with me at the present time, why don't both of us just mosey on over to myspace and handle it. That way we wont be bringing your personal vendetta against me to this board. Deal? :)

 I apologize to NAPFS and anyone reading this thread for it's very existence. I just figured it would be better in one of it's own, then to be in the EMC thread.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2009, 10:00:46 pm by Rattlebone »

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2009, 09:34:23 pm »
 This thread is in response to statements made by Tachia in this thread

  http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1655.msg17788#msg17788

 I would like to say that I believe that post by Tachia was a feeble attempt to keep that thread going and active since it has been inactive for a while.



Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2009, 10:05:53 pm »

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2009, 06:19:41 pm »
 The qoutes below are yours Tachia, and my reply to them.....enjoy  ;D


Quote
the only reason i posted this was because some of us had been talking about this two-faced thing some of the people in here engage in


 Would you provide proof that I have flamed Dr. Al or this board at any time in the last few weeks. If you can not provide evidence of that, then you are either lying or telling half truths.

 When I first came to this board about a year ago I greatly admired Dr.Al and his work. Prior to coming to this site I had never even heard of him.

 I did debate with him and others about a year ago over some issues, but debates and discussions do not equate to disrespect, hatred, or dislike. Even in my debates with him and others here I learned from him. It was sort of an honor to me when Moma Porcupine in recent times said something to the effect of " how even though she did not agree with, she learned some things from my perspectives." Don't remember her exact words but it was something like that.

 When your thread turned into an investigation of Ben, is when I did start to get angry with Dr. Al, and this board. So yes I did say some things on other places in regards to this board, and I am sure he has already seen the majority of what I said since I made no secret about it.

 Even in a thread in which I recently showed Dr. Al proof that one of your associates is making threats against me and my safety, there are probably people in that very thread blasting this group and people here. However I do not take responsibility for their words, or actions. If am to be held accountable for the actions of people that I know on myspace, then I can then hold you responsible for the actions of your friends.

 So going by your logic in regards to what you wish to blame me for when it comes to any statements or actions done by anyone that calls me a friend, I can then hold you just as responsible for the threats of violence against myself and others, and the racist threats of violence I have seen in emails sent from your friends to mine. If you think that I can not hold you personally responsible for those actions, then neither can you hold me responsible the words and actions of others unless it can be proven I forced them to do it some how, or took part in it.

 As for me saying one thing here, and another in other places. Again show proof of where I have said anything bad about this site in recent times. I have already acknowledged being angry with people here, and especially you and your buddies. I have already acknowledged in that anger I have spoke in anger about this place and some of it's members. A lot of that had to do with issues I already feel have been settled between myself and Dr.Al.

 What has happened in more recent times is that one of your associates made the exact same threats against me nearly word for word as they did in the past. They made the mistake of doing so in the open, and I provided links to those threats to Dr. Al in private. Dr.Al has since acknowledged he seen those threats. So in my mind my talks to Dr.Al in private cleared my name, and he now understands that I am not coming here being a liar, or ever denying or refusing to speak on my actions like you and your associates have.

 I have mentioned on several occasions the threats against myself and others by one of your male associates who is a member of this group. He never acknowledged he did them, but now we have proof he does act in that manner, and that proof came by his own words. You have refused to acknowledge that you have took part in similar threats against other people, and we are currently looking for the evidence to show everyone you have. I have not forgotten the threats you made to that young couple. Both you and your associates like to come to this site and bring up those fights of long ago, always mentioning how I was flaming people and using profanity etc. Funny thing is that neither of you acknowledge you took part in it, or how I was defending friends and loved ones from attacks from people you associate with. The thing with that conflict is that is has nothing to do with what is going on here, and yet you and your friends constantly try and use it as a reference to discredit me. When I mention your part in all of that, you either ignore it, or cry that I am trying to derail things. Yet you think it is fine and dandy to continue to speak of it.

 All of these factors lead to me becoming angry and frustrated with this place and I vented elsewhere, and did so to call YOU and your associates on a few things. Since then as I have said before, I have proven my claims of threats and stalking against me, and I do not feel that Dr.Al considers me a liar any longer.

l So for the record I will say that I have no problem with Dr.AL, or NAPFS regardless of my opinions of the investigation of Ben and Cat Carnes. If you persist in trying to make it seem differently, then I will go to places you know I have influence over people and endorse this site and Dr. Al, but in that endorsement also let it be known that I feel the investigation has corruption involved in it, and that corruption is not from this site, but by YOU and your associates.

Furthermore if I was being "two faced" in my actions, then why would I have spoken openly in anger where everyone here could see it? I hid nothing, and you know how I do speak my mind and always have...you and I were even friends once in day long past.


Quote
the thought was to see what others in here had to say, if they saw the same thing etc .. the reason i posted it in here was because this is the thread that "they" have referenced in their "flaming" elsewhere

 So for now on every time one of your friends posts something I will make sure to blame you for anything they say.

The flaming you are speaking about I have already acknowledged and spoken about above, and in my first post in this thread. I have given my reasons and taken accountability for my actions, when will you and your associates take accountability for yours  without trying to make everyone think you are victims. In my book victims are not people that make threats of violence or stalking even if they have been flamed, those people are perpetrators
 

Quote
we have all seen others do this as well .. from what i can see, the great majority of members in here that do post on other forums, wear the same face no matter where they post .. we were just wondering at those who so obviously do not

 If this is so, then why does one of your associates endorse Betsy Ashby aka Guardian who openly flames this site on Indianz.com, accuses Dr.Al and everyone here of being white supremacists,and has targeted one of the women here with numerous personal attacks.

 If your friend was wearing the same face, then they would do as I have done and challenge Betsy Ashby on her words against this site and it's members, and let people know what Ashby is saying is nothing but lies. It is in the power of one of your associates to do so, and yet I have seen them do nothing lately but come out endorsing Ashby and her actions.

 Oddly enough, your associate is in my opinion, behind your part of the "investigation" you are helping on the Carnes; yet at the same time endorsing somebody who says this site is a white supremacist site.

 Does, or would either you or your associate allow a Neo Nazi site to take care of your business, or help in an "investigation" on a native man and his family you were involved in? We both know that answer to that, and so why is your friend endorsing somebody who is making that charge against this site?

I can provide links as evidence to my statements here if you wish to challenge them.

Quote
i have absolutely no intention of "engaging" mike in any way whatsoever

 Going back at least 3 years both you and one of your associates has continued to use my name in threads, and you have done so to let me know just how much you have violated my privacy. The gaining of my real name has been a tool all of you have using to try and stalk me off the internet. I have spoken to people that have told me that even YOU were trying your hardest to get my personal info simply because I had flamed you.

 I have seen both you and other people whine and complain when you think I might be mentioning the names of one of your family members, even when I had done no such thing. Yet oddly enough all of you continue to try and gain my personal information, and when you get it...you make sure to post it up as much as you can. Hence, why you like to use my real name when I have never gave you permission, having always used nothing but internet screen names

 Over the years both you and your associates have tried to accuse me of being a federal agent, a drug addict, a hippie, and a host of other things. Oddly enough by some of the attacks one of your friends has done against me using stalking and other means, you all know that is not true. Still you continue to whine when you think I might be using personal info of you or your families, but never once has it bothered any of you to dig to gain mine or others.

 Good case in point....when you all joined in on a thread on myspace attacking the nativeness of a man because he was a victim of adoption policies that put him in a white home instead of a native one.

  One of your associates some time back asked me never to mention somebody in their family, even though they made a thread about them. In exchange for that request they agreed to never mention my personal information on a thread ever again. I kept that promise to them, and yet they still continue to use my personal information gained through stalking, just as you have.

  Perhaps since this usage of personal information is okay with you, I should start releasing personal information on you and your families so that you know exactly how that kind of violation feels.

Quote
there is no point, as we all know .. .. i will not answer to any of his BS nor will i stoop to his level for any reason

 Oh, but of course you won't  :) You know that engaging in that kind of a conversation would force you to answer to so many of your actions and allegations, and that would put you in a far different light then any of you wish to be seen in on here.

 At least in my case, I have always admitted to not being any sort of angel, and that in the course of fighting have done things that I probably should not have. You on the other hand pretend you didn't have any part of it, and pretend to be victims even though many of you tried using threats as a way to intimidate people. All I ever did was flame, or copy paste things up so to use your very own words against you.

Quote
he has enough puppets dancing on his strings,

 Remember that you have said this, because I am going to use this against you for now on every single time one of your friends says or does something stupid. You are not responsible for their every action, just like you try and hold me responsible for the actions of associated with me.

[Long of very personal remarks and attacks removed.]

 Just so you and and your friends know....there is sooooo much I know about that has been going on behind he scenes for such a long time, and a lot of that I know for sure that none of you would want to see put in public. Thing is, once I finally get that permission, trust me I am going to sing like an opera singer about all of those things.


 Pretty soon you can all start referring to me as Pavarotti huh ayes  ;)

« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 12:27:40 am by educatedindian »

Offline bls926

  • Posts: 655
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 02:45:40 am »
I think this is the dumbest thread we've ever had on NAFPS. How childish and immature can y'all get? I've seen thirteen year-olds with more maturity and common sense. He said . . . she said . . . they said. Unfuckingbelievable! This is ridiculous!

No one needs to know what Tachia's BQ is or what she looks like. No one needs to know Rattlebone's or Walks' BQ or whether they're enrolled or not. It does not matter. No one cares.

Y'all can continue to throw mud at each other until this time next year, it won't change a thing. We still have questions about Ben Carnes and Eagle Mountain Spiritual Council. These questions are valid and remain unanswered.

Offline Walks

  • Posts: 28
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 03:06:43 am »
I have been asking those questions for a year now and they will not be answered because there is no answer that would be favorable to Ben and can be verified...he wont tell you who made him Chief....BECAUSE NO ONE DID!!!

frederica

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Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 03:48:03 am »
You two, three or four keep rehashing the same thing over and over.  It still doesn't belong here, take it elsewhere.  How many years is this now?  It's really getting old and has nothing to do with the SMC and Ben Carnes thread.

Offline Walks

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Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 05:37:29 am »
With all due respect.....due respect????.....anyway, this isnt the Ben Carnes thread.

If you are going to let Rattle start a thread making a bunch of claims against me then you can either, let me address those claims, bann me or [Abusive language removed].take your pick.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 01:22:06 am by educatedindian »

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 03:47:01 pm »
You two, three or four keep rehashing the same thing over and over.  It still doesn't belong here, take it elsewhere.  How many years is this now?  It's really getting old and has nothing to do with the SMC and Ben Carnes thread.

Moma Porcupine suggested once that we make a thread to settle side issues or something like that, and I decided to do it as to not derail the EMC thread.

 Dr. Al didn't seem to have a problem with it, as he suggested that Tachia move her things over here.

I would not even have started this thread had she not went into that other one making charges against me when I had not even posted in that other thread since I made MP mad over something I said in that thread. Had I addressed Tachia's charges against me, it would have been myself getting in trouble and not her.

So I did what I thought was best and addressed it some place else, and added questions of my own. I figured it would be my best option say some things that I wanted to say, and still be respectful to the rest of the board and their wishes.

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 03:51:09 pm »
***YAWN***

Rattle......yeah I have twice told you I would love to meet you in the real.

Is that a threat?....I have told many people that including one person who you are associating me with here.
So, am I threatening her too?

I have found after a few years and meeting several people in the real, who I first met online, that the vast majority are fake as hell on here, especially the ones who are fanatically afraid of people knowing their name or seeing a recent pic of them(Yvette). So, I know how you are trying to spin that comment, but the fact is, I said it knowing that should I ever meet you, you could no longer hide behind your false persona any longer.

I also told you that if you ever flamed anyone else in the totally dishonorable ways have in the past, except me(open target) that I would post up the address to your work place.

I never expressed nor do I have any interest of visiting myself.

Yvette.....yes Firewolf told me of plans to find out where Dani lived and have some confrontation with her.
I told her I didn't want any part of any thing like that, would not assist her in locating Dani, and if she ever in fact carried out any such plan, I didn't want any knowledge of it. Just the fact that she had me listed on her profile as her hero, leaves little doubt that she has some instability issues.



Eric......that is not correct. I once asked you if Fed-X Ft.Worth, knew how much time you spent on company computers flaming people on myspace.......once again, you are not interesting enough for me to come even 100yards out of my way to visit with, let alone a thousand miles or more.

Rocky.......if......any such incident ever actually occurred, I had nothing to do with it. I did however post up my entire days itinerary, complete with street addresses and times, when you asked me to let you know when I would be in California again. You request included the expressed intent of doing physical harm to me. I knew you were just blowing wind so I posted that to call you on it.(He didn't show).

Yes, I am saying now, just as I have admitted repeatedly in the past, I am an asshole and have little to no patience for idiocy and have went around and around with you as well as others, but I do not have, nor have I ever had any desire to hunt you down and physically fight with anyone.

So, if you, Al, or anyone else has any proof of ANYONE making any real threats....post em up, let's all have a look and see if they are real....or just your usual spin.

FURTHERMORE........I'm an ass, but I'm my own ass........I don't do anyones bidding, in fact, I didn' even know, that the person who you claim is instigating me to act, had any issue with the Carnes family, at the time, I first raised the issue back on myspace.

Just because, several people, who actually knows the person in question, in the real, share the same opinion of them, does not mean that one is pulling the others' strings.

The fact of the matter is, that one of "my friends" have repeatedly asked me not to post anything against the Carnes........but like I said.....I'm my own ass.


Now everyone...for 100 points...who can give the correct answer to, how many times did "Rattlebone" contradict or make a hypocrite of himself in the above posts?


Quote
  I also told you that if you ever flamed anyone else in the totally dishonorable ways have in the past, except me(open target) that I would post up the address to your work place.

I never expressed nor do I have any interest of visiting myself.

 This is still stalking and threatening behavior that goes above and beyond what anyone else did in what was nothing more then an online dispute that resulted in a flame war.

 You recently made a threat about my home address or something to that effect, and I did share that with Dr. Al.


Offline educatedindian

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Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 01:32:50 am »
You two, three or four keep rehashing the same thing over and over.  It still doesn't belong here, take it elsewhere.  How many years is this now?  It's really getting old and has nothing to do with the SMC and Ben Carnes thread.

Moma Porcupine suggested once that we make a thread to settle side issues or something like that, and I decided to do it as to not derail the EMC thread.

 Dr. Al didn't seem to have a problem with it, as he suggested that Tachia move her things over here.

That is now looking to have been a mistake on my part. I naively thought it would be limited to specific narrow things, you and Tachia discussing that one issue. I esp don't care for anyone being the BQ police. Like Bls pointed to, why would any of us care about that?

I will only add one other thing to this thread and then leave it. RB did show me what appears to be a threat, an "I know where you live" kind of remark. But since reposting it or linking to it would expose that person's address, I won't do either of those.

If this thread becomes too intrusive on anyone's personal life or abusive in any way, I'd say it should be ended, closed, perhaps even deleted altogether. It may have already. Other opinions?

Offline Rattlebone

  • Posts: 257
Re: The anti derailment thread.
« Reply #11 on: June 03, 2009, 04:26:24 am »

That is now looking to have been a mistake on my part. I naively thought it would be limited to specific narrow things, you and Tachia discussing that one issue. I esp don't care for anyone being the BQ police. Like Bls pointed to, why would any of us care about that?

I will only add one other thing to this thread and then leave it. RB did show me what appears to be a threat, an "I know where you live" kind of remark. But since reposting it or linking to it would expose that person's address, I won't do either of those.

If this thread becomes too intrusive on anyone's personal life or abusive in any way, I'd say it should be ended, closed, perhaps even deleted altogether. It may have already. Other opinions?


 I don't have any problem with this thread coming down as long as Tachia quits putting my name in statements in the other thread like she did.

  It was in my belief that she was recently in the EMC thread making statements about me that were not true, and it seemed as if she was not only trying to smear me, but get me banned from this site.

 So this thread seemed to be my best option to answer to her charges without derailing the other.

 She often makes comments that I find offensive, and when I call her on it she cries foul. Hopefully this behavior on her part will stop.

 There seems to be no use in having this thread other then that considering how it seems that Tachia will not answer my questions of her.

 I will say though that I strongly disagree with the statement by BLS in regards to "Blood Quantum police." That is very much the opposite of what I was doing. Anyone that has dealt with me on either Myspace, Indianz.com, or even the real world knows that I am a strong and vocal opponent of the concept of BQ. I don't even feel that tribal enrollment is the end all be all definition of who is or who is not Indian either.

 Anyone that has seen me would understand my objections to BQ considering that I am a mixed blood Choctaw who is no darker then Tachia, or Walks themselves. That is why I found it objectionable to either of them harping about "white people at the Carnes." I have been told that Tachia has never been to the Carnes for a Sundance, and so my question is how does she know what she is saying is true, and how does she not know these so called "white people" are not just as much Indian as her.

 My question of Walks being there and him being a PODIA I think was a valid statement and question of him as well. Maybe he and Tachia took that as an insult, but going by what you have told me before, being a PODIA is not a bad thing. I have even seen you in this site in some old threads say something that I took as you thinking it was not a bad thing for these people to reconnect to their people or whatever. I could not agree with you more, but I was questioning why Walks who is one himself, and Tachia who may have been on at one time in her life were possibly trying to deny people that same opportunity they may have been given by some elder, Indian community etc.

 So that was my point in questioning Tachia and Walks. Is was not really to get their BQ, or to say that Walks should be denied anything if he is a PODIA. It was to point out they might be in objection to people just like them, or who had been at one time in their lives. PODIA's present at the Carnes, or white looking mixed bloods is not an indicator that the Carnes are exploiters.

 If any of them wish to continue to discuss who made Ben a "chief," lack of permission to be on Ute land doing what he does, and all the other stuff they have questions about; I for one have no objections and will not be there derailing any threads. In fact I gave my opinion of being on Ute land to what Ken Frost has said was wrong.

So what I felt I was doing here was replying to what I felt were false charges against me that it seemed even you felt Tachia should bring here instead, and pointing out what I felt were unfair and even hypocritical statements by both of them, when they are "white looking" themselves and could easily be seen as whites,  PODIA etc by somebody that didn't know them.

 I hope my response here is something you can understand, and take into consideration as far as my point of view and how I seen their statements.

 It seemed bringing it here would be the best choice as to bring it into discussion and not derail any other thread. Of course it has not worked since neither of them wish to give any real dialogue.