Author Topic: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians  (Read 102766 times)

Offline likeman

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Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2011, 07:34:47 pm »
[i guess you guys pick on mowa band now sheesh i am choctaw we known about this guys for ever we also know there is also apache in lousiana because of apaches jumpming off the train

Offline likeman

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Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2011, 10:04:16 pm »
blackwolf what is your family tribe?

Offline tuschkahouma

  • Posts: 57
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2011, 05:01:07 am »
concerning the Choctaw Apache people of LA, I grew up southeast of Zwolle, Ebarb, and Many, in Moss Bluff, LA, just north of Lake Charles.
This area was at the top of the Neutral Zone that existed before the boundaries of Texas and LA were formally established. Mission Adaes
was east of the area. Choctaws had been coming to LA to hunt. Ouachita is from Owa Chito which in Choctaw means Big Hunt. I also
lived at Jonesville, LA for a short time before Moss Bluff and there were Choctaws in that area. Choctaws were removed past Jonesville
up the Ouachita River to Ark and removed on foot to Indian Territory. Then Agent John Sibley sent Choctaws to the area where Toledo
Bend is now. The Spanish authorities sold Lipan Apache people as slaves to the Choctaw people. There were also Nahautl or Aztec
people who came to this outpost. That community is part Lipan, Part Choctaw, and Part Nahautl. It has existed since the 1780's.
The Choctaws realize that with the size of their tribe, they've left people behind historically. The Jena Band is fed, the Clifton Choctaw,
and Choctaw-Apache are state, and there are numerous Choctaw Biloxi descendants in LA. I've been in language classes with fed
and non fed indians. We all know the Choctaw language to some extent. I wish other tribes were open accepting and not judgemental
like the Choctaws are. This is not to say they accept fakes. They accept people that know the history. Leave the Mowas alone.
I doubt they'd want to go through the discrimination they've gone through to be called fakes by people who rely on a BIA ruling that
was political in nature and not factual at all.

Offline earthw7

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Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #33 on: February 01, 2011, 12:56:19 pm »
ok i read all the post,
and to be federal recognized you have to fit in to this criteria 
I know I know The BIA is mean to you.
The Criteria is simple and you must prove that you are a established government
my Nation has always been our own government we have always had a government
until 1885 then we reestablished in 1911. We don't need abook to tell us who we are.
If you are legal then how many tribal nations support you?
Plus Vine Deloria Jr. is an Enrolled member of my tribe and he is not a person
who can say who is a member of a nation and who is not.

BIA CRITERIA FOR FEDERAL RECOGNITION

Under the BIA's regulations, a tribe may petition the interior secretary for recognition. The petition must meet seven criteria. It must contain:

1. statement of facts establishing that the tribe has been identified from historical times until the present on a substantially continuous basis as "American Indian" or "aboriginal;"
2. Evidence that a substantial portion of the group inhabits a specific area or lives in a community viewed as American Indian and distinct from other populations in the area, and that its members are descendants of an Indian tribe which historically inhabited a specific area;
3. Evidence that the tribe has maintained tribal political authority or influence over its members as an autonomous entity throughout history until the present;
4. A copy of the tribe's governing document, including membership criteria, or, if it does not have a formal governing document, a description of its membership criteria and governing procedures;
5. An official membership list, any available former lists, and evidence that current members descend from a historic tribe or tribes that combined into a single autonomous political entity;
6. Evidence that the tribe consists mainly of people who are not members of an acknowledged North American Indian tribe; and
7. A statement that the tribe is not the subject of the congressional legislation that has terminated or forbidden the federal trust relationship (per 25 CFR
§ 83. 7a-g)*.
In Spirit

Offline tuschkahouma

  • Posts: 57
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #34 on: February 02, 2011, 12:28:02 am »
firstly, the area where the mowas are from is the okla hannali or six towns of the choctaw nation. It was treatied away in the treaty
of Hoe Buckintoopa in 1803. So the mowa choctaws live in an area that has always been choctaw. One of the problems is finding
out when the choctaw people in question went from choctaw to english surnames and how this was accomplished. there are tribal
rolls of choctaws from the mowa area that were not in english from the 1850's. My Choctaw ancestor had an english surname.
The irony in all of this is that the MS Band of Choctaw Indians had no federal recognition from 1831 to 1917. They like the Mowas
were on the land of churches and looked after by missionaries except for the Bok Chito community that pushed missionaries away.
When a tribe has no chance to treaty with the US, they are simply overlooked and ignored.

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #35 on: February 02, 2011, 03:05:18 pm »
tuschkahouma said

Quote
firstly, the area where the mowas are from is the okla hannali or six towns of the choctaw nation. It was treatied away in the treaty
of Hoe Buckintoopa in 1803. So the mowa choctaws live in an area that has always been choctaw.


The MOWAs claims as to the location of the Six Towns of the Choctaw Nation was disputed in their Hearings for Federal Recognition before the Senate Select Committee on Indian Affairs in 1991.

Quote
One of the errors which need to be corrected involves the location of the Six Towns District (the Okla Hannali) of the Choctaw Nation and that of Yowani Village.

Quote
First, numerous times in the testimony of June 26th, the statement is made that Yowani village and the Six Towns District were in Alabama (Tab 4, part 3, page 1; Tab 5, part 1, page 1; Tab 5, part 2, page 5-6; Tab 7, page 1; as well as many other references to the Six Towns and Yowani which imply but do not say they were in Alabama).  This is totally inaccurate.  The Six Towns ( Yellow Canes, Bouctoulouctsi, Tala, Nachououenya, Sanacha and Toussana { Rowland, Sanders, and Gallaway 1984:280, 295} were located along   Souinlovey Creek and Tarlow Creek, both on the West Side of the Chunky River, in northern Jasper and southern Newton counties, Mississippi ( see figures 2, 5, and 6).  Yowani village, which was not part of the Six Towns, was located on the Chickasawhay River, in the extreme northern portion of Wayne County, Mississippi (See figure 2, 5, and 60.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2011, 03:08:01 pm by BlackWolf »

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2011, 01:51:07 am »
At the MOWA Choctaw hearing for Federal Recognition, the alleged Apache/MOWA Choctaw connection was also brought up in testimony.   According to the story of Geronimo’s Last Raid,  as was told by a MOWA Supporter and retired Anthropologist, the Apaches who were at MT. Vernon, allegedly raided a MOWA Choctaw funeral, stole their Sofki, threw a party for themselves, and then stole a MOWA Choctaw Baby.  Sofki is a fermented corn liquor.  The Apache ancestry story appears to be fairly prevalent with many MOWAS.


Here is the recorded testimony of Margaret Z. Searcy, a retired University of Alabama Anthropologist.  The story appears to have come from the MOWA Choctaw Chairman at the time, Framon Weaver.

Quote
One of the things I learned in talking to Mr. Weaver, was the story of Geronimo’s Last Raid.  I asked him to tell me about some of the things that happened in the past.  I was thinking in terms of old Searcy Hospital that at one time was a Federal Fort.  I asked him to tell me about that.
He said, “Well, Mrs. Searcy, I can tell you about Geronimo when Geronimo was there.”  I encouraged him to do so because after Geronimo and the Apaches were captured they were taken and kept at Searcy Hospital.  Federal soldiers allowed the Indians to go out and farm during the daytime.  I think Geronimo had to stay locked up, but the Apaches reported back to the fort every night.
When they went out, the MOWA were about to have a funeral.  They have distinct individual funeral customs.  For each funeral they prepared 10 gallons of sofki.  What is sofki?  It is fermented corn liquor.  So here were the MOWA with 10 gallons of fermented corn liquor for the wake.  While the Apaches were out, they stole the Mowa’s sofki, they had their own party, and then they stole the baby.
I asked what happened.  It seems that the Federal Government recognized that the Mowa had been deprived of their liquor and they replaced it.  I asked about the baby.  He told me that the baby was returned to the Mowa.

It is also interesting that at the Mowa Choctaw Cultural Center, besides having a Choctaw room, also has a Geronimo Room, and a Cherokee Room.  

http://www.alabama.travel/alabama-attractions/mowa_choctaw_cultural_center.html
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 02:00:13 am by BlackWolf »

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 294
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2011, 06:06:14 pm »
That's interesting.....never heard of sofkey being alcoholic, just corn soup. This story does not seem credible to me.

Offline tuschkahouma

  • Posts: 57
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2011, 07:11:10 am »
blackwolf for living in the south, there's something you've obivously missed that I've previously stated. Many tribes in the south, some of them
being fed tribes and some being state tribes, are comprised of absorbed smaller communities or remnants of tribes. There are many examples
of this occuring. #1 Tunica-Biloxi tribe is comprised of Tunica, Biloxi, Ofo, Avoyelle, and Choctaw peoples. #2 Muscogee Creeks have Yuchi,
Natchez, Shawnee, and Yamasee people on their rolls. #3 Haliwa-Saponi people have Saponi, Nottaway, and Nansemond peoples amongst them.
There are Choctaws enrolled as Chickasaws and vice versa in Oklahoma. #4 Both Grande Ronde and Warm Springs rezs in Oregon have multiple
tribes with different languistic histories leading to the creation of the Chinook jargon language. You keep picking at the same point while
ignoring similar circumstances in other fed tribal communities. someone needs to do their research or throw up the flag.

Offline earthw7

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Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2011, 03:35:34 pm »
We have many reservations that have many tribes within them.
That is with many nations.
My concern is

Did you have a traditional Government that continued to today?
I am not talking about IRA Governments.

Do the relative/closly relatived tribes accept you as their people?

Do you have written documents from the tribes saying you are related?

Does the Apache nations accept your group and have they wrote support
letters to that fact?

Do you know how many Apache had children in your area do you have a count?

Do you have the Apache names of the decsendant because that can be traced.
 
In Spirit

Offline tuschkahouma

  • Posts: 57
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #40 on: February 07, 2011, 01:36:24 am »
I currently live away from that area however previously I've seen in person Choctaw artwork for sale from a McIntosh, AL artisan in
the MS Choctaw Giftshop on the Pearl River Rez next to the museum in the community services area by the stickball arena. McIntosh
is Mowa Choctaw area. After Philip Martin lost to Beasley Denson Cedric Sunray was invited to speak on the MS Choctaw rez and wrote
about it in an article that is probably still on the internet addressing the tribal relationship between the Mowas and The MS Band of Choctaw
Indians post Philip Martin and the hope for the future after Mr. Martin used his Abramov connection to lobby against the Mowas recognition
in the past. I was one of three witnesses to Sunray versus Martin at an OU tribal symposium five years ago. The other two were Ryan
RedCorn and Cedric's daughter. The Mowas were invited to the internment of Choctaw remains as were Clifton, MS Band, and Jena
Band of Choctaws as referenced in the Matte book on the Mowas. Let's see, Cedric goes to Pearl River and speaks and goes
to numerous indigenous communities all over this country and stands behind the legitimate and ignored as some indigenous
people choose to go nahollo and ask for papers from a time of paper genocide. nice.

Offline tuschkahouma

  • Posts: 57
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #41 on: February 07, 2011, 03:56:41 am »
wow, I was going on yahoo for the heck of it and saw the tribal recognition database with the Mowas, The Poarch Creeks, the Miamis
of Indiana, and the Delaware-Muncie tribes from 2004. The Poarch Creeks were recognized in 1984, the Indiana Miamis were illegally
denied recognition after 1897, the Mowas were lobbied against by the Poarch Creeks and Ms Choctaws and yet supported by the
Tunica-Biloxis, and the Kansas Munsees were terminated by an act of the 55th US Congress in 1897. Someone on your postings
put the whole list on and yes there are scads of fake tribes on there. Please be educated enough to figure out things as I have
over the years.

Offline lilred4220

  • Posts: 1
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2011, 02:40:30 am »
First off the Mowa's are not frauds and second one of the reasons we can't get recognized is because they will not take some of the people that don't belong on our role off. They keep letting people that are just married in on the role and aren't any blood at all. I also have 5 years or more worth the research that proves we are related to the MS Choctaws and Poarch Band of Greedy (Not all just most of them) Creeks plus a DNA on top of it. I am currently in the process of up grading my dna test also.

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2011, 12:19:38 am »
tuschkahouma said

Quote
I currently live away from that area however previously I've seen in person Choctaw artwork for sale from a McIntosh, AL artisan in the MS Choctaw Giftshop on the Pearl River Rez next to the museum in the community services area by the stickball arena. McIntosh is Mowa Choctaw area.

Just because a gift shop on a Reservation or in a Tribal Community sells an individual’s Artwork, that in itself is no proof whatsoever that the Artist is Indian.  Being a member of a State Recognized Tribe, as the MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians are, is not proof that someone has Indian ancestry. 
In fact there is a loophole in the Indian Arts and Crafts Act of 1990 that allows state Recognized Tribes to sell their craft work as Indian.  While I do say that not all State Recognized Tribes are fakes, as others here have also pointed out, most of these State Recognized Tribes in the Southeast require little to no evidence at all of Indian decent, let alone being a continuous Sovereign Tribal Government.   The MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians is a good example of this.  The evidence shows that 98% of their members at the time of the BIA Proposed Finding , could not verify a drop of Indian blood in over 200 years of history. 

Offline BlackWolf

  • Posts: 504
Re: MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2011, 12:30:22 am »
tuschkahouma said

Quote
After Philip Martin lost to Beasley Denson Cedric Sunray was invited to speak on the MS Choctaw rez and wrote about it in an article that is probably still on the internet addressing the tribal relationship between the Mowas and The MS Band of Choctaw Indians post Philip Martin and the hope for the future after Mr. Martin used his Abramov connection to lobby against the Mowas recognition in the past.

Does the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians as a Tribal Government support the MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians?  If you’re going to make allegations about Philip Martin, then post your proof.  Phillip Martin lobbied for his Tribe.  Good for him!  He was also a Choctaw Warrior, and an individual that worked for over 40 years helping his people. 

Quote
Martin's influence reached beyond Mississippi. He was the first president of the Board of Regents of Haskell Indian Junior College, now Haskell Indian Nations University in Lawrence Kan. He also served as president of the National Tribal Chairmen's Association and president of United Sou th and Eastern Tribes Inc.


After Martin’s passing, Beasley Denson, current Chief of the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians had kind words to say for the old Warrior.

Quote
"He was a great man and a visionary leader ... He transformed the economy of our Tribe and with it the fate of our people," said Miko Beasley Denson, the current chief who defeated Martin in 2007.
http://obits.nola.com/obituaries/nola/obituary.aspx?n=phillip-martin&pid=139394844

He was also praised by Gov. Haley Barbour,

Quote
"His attention to economic development while preserving the cultural aspects of Native American life in Mississippi will be long remembered," Barbour said in a statement.

US Senator Roger Wicker, R-Mississippi said,

Quote
U.S. Sen. Roger Wicker, R-Miss., said Martin "inspired his people" and "created hope and opportunity for Mississippi Choctaws."

Tuschkahouma, if you’re going to come on here and make accusations about a deceased and Respected Indian leader who dedicated his entire life to his people and his community, not to mention being a Choctaw Warrior who spent 10 years in the Air Force, then I suggest you back up your statements with some evidence. 
The charges appear to be that the Mississippi Band of Choctaw Indians via Chief Phillip Martin lobbied against the MOWAS because they didn’t want competition for their Casinos.  They allege also some sort of collusion with the BIA Acknowledgment Office in regards to their Proposed Findings.  But could it be possible that the reason why Choctaw Chief Phillip Martin was so adamantly opposed to the MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians Federal recognition, was because he knows the History of his people and knows that the MOWA Band of Choctaw Indians aren’t his relatives?  And possibly he saw these people as appropriating a Choctaw identity that does not belong to them?