Author Topic: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help  (Read 28675 times)

Offline educatedindian

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2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« on: March 04, 2010, 09:28:14 pm »
I got the request below from the owner of a site debunking 20212 claims, run by an astronomer.

If you are of the tribes named, can you comment about your people's prophecies and the claims being made about them?

Here's his letter, followed by my answer to him, and then his answer back.

-------------------------

Hi;

I am the administrator of 2012hoax.org.  I came across your site while looking for information on claims made regarding various Native American cultures and their beliefs about the year 2012.

Basically the claim I am investigating is that various Native American tribes have legends about the "end of the world", and that they all center on the year 2012.  Some groups named are the Hopi, Cherokee, Apache, Navajo, Blackfeet, and Crow.   Obviously I am skeptical of these claims.

Do you have any information which would either support or refute this claim?

Thank you.

----------------

Hello,
As far as I know, none of those tribes have any prophecies that talk specifically about 2012 for the simple reason that their calendar systems are quite different.
 
I will ask on the forum for people to say what they know about their own peoples' prophecies.
 
But I can tell you specifically that the only Apache prophecy I know about the end of the world is more of a warning than a prediction, and it has no specific date. Mescalero prophecy says that when Indians are like whites, or when all Indians have died out or been killed off, then the world comes to an end. It's mentioned here.
http://etext.virginia.edu/apache/frames/A-Ems9.html
 
There are a number of pretty obvious phony prophecies online that falsely claim to be Apache that are put out by some notorious frauds, Tom Brown Jr and Maria Naylin who calls herself Yraceburu. We have research threads dedicated to both of these characters that you are welcome to link to, quote from, or repost what's in them.
 
Glad that your site exists. It's badly needed.
Al Carroll (educatedindian at the forum)

----------------

Hi Al;

My name is Bill, by the way.  I'm an amateur astronomer out here in California, which is how I got roped into debunking this hoax.    I give 'astronomy talks' to local school kids, and they kept asking about it, so I started researching it.

The Mescalero prophecy looks very similar to the other "2012 prophecies" that I have seen attributed (or mis-attributed) to various native American people, in that it is not tied to a specific year, but rather to a concept of something passing away.  Thank you for that link, I'll add it as a reference to the page.

It appears that our websites have very similar goals, in that they both target hoaxers and fraudsters, and that both of them are community efforts.  I'll return the favor, and say that I'm pleased to find your website, and make your acquaintance, and that your site is also badly needed.   I imagine that we share some of the fraudsters between us.  Pinchbeck comes to mind, because of his constant babbling about "shamanism".

I will poke around in the forums on your site, and see if I find anything useful.  I already found some references to the Mayans there, but I think it's all stuff I'm already familiar with, in particular the stuff about Jose Arguelles.  By the way, did you know that Arguelles, Pinchbeck, Jenkins, and a few other woo-woo fraudsters just took a trip down to Cancun for a "tipping point" conference?  Paid for by the shills they sold tickets to, no less.   New Age woo is apparently fairly profitable.

I'll add a link to your site and your forums at http://2012hoax.org/links/

Thanks for your help!

Bill Hudson (a.k.a. "Astrogeek")
Site Administrator - 2012hoax.org

Offline Paul123

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2010, 12:57:29 pm »
This should sum it up.






Offline 2012hoax

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2010, 04:06:45 pm »
Hello again Al, Hi Paul;

Al;

Thank you for posting my request here.   I have some specific sites that I have questions about, but I also have the more general request for information that you have already posted. 

Some specific sites are:

http://www.2012endofdays.org/more/Native-American-prophecy.php
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/telesto.htm
http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/BlackElk.html
http://www.articlesbase.com/culture-articles/native-american-indians-on-2012-699298.html

Some of these scream "new age woo" to me.  Possibly all of them are.  However, before I dismiss them as such I would like to hear from the people here whether or not my gut feeling about these sites is correct. 

Paul;  I like that cartoon for a couple of reasons.  First, it's funny... the new age frauds who promote 2012 as a doomsday or transition cherry pick their "facts" in order to support their idea, and ignore those facts that tend to refute their idea.   Even if the Mayan calendar did end in 2012 (and it does not) there could be perfectly mundane reasons why it might have done so.  But the fraudsters ignore the mundane and go for the "sinister impending doom" <insert phantom of the opera organ music>, every time. 

Second, it points out that the fraudsters don't take the time to do their research.  The round stone shown in the cartoon is an Aztec sun stone, not a Mayan calendar.   Nearly every link promoting the idea that the "Mayan Calendar ends in 2012" makes this mistake.  The Aztecs thrived after the Mayan collapse.   I don't know if the cartoonist knew about this, or whether they simply picked up on the idea that the sun stone was Mayan from the fraudsters, but I like to use that cartoon in order to illustrate the point.     There's another, similar one, you might also like:  http://bizarrocomic.blogspot.com/2009/12/countdown-to-catastrophe.html

To everyone on this forum;

Thank you for taking the time to read this, and thank you in advance for any information you can give me.  This site has taught me a great deal already.  I knew, going into this, that most "native American spirituality" seminars and conferences were bogus, a mish-mash of new-age philosophy and pop-psychology dressed up in a Hollywood caricature of the "native American".   I now know that the act of offering anything like this for a fee is a red flag warning that it is fake, and that the phrase "native American shaman" is also a red flag. 

Please keep up the good work.
 



Offline educatedindian

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2010, 06:10:40 pm »
Bill,
That first link is notable in that it doesn't mention a date. I don't see how it would support the 2012 claim at all.

The second one...I wonder if they even bothered to actually read what's in those prophecies. The Anishnaabe Seventh Fire Prophecy (which they quote correctly as far as I know) actually says this:

"Beware if the Light Skinned race comes wearing the face of death. You must be careful because the face of brotherhood and the face of death look very much alike. If they come carrying a weapon, beware. If they come in suffering, they could fool you. Their hearts may be filled with greed for the riches of this land. If they are indeed your brothers, let them prove it. Do not accept them in total trust. You shall know that the face they wear is one of death if the rivers run with poison and the fish become unfit to eat. You shall know them by these many things."

IOW, don't trust whites like the ones who run that very site....in fact don't trust whites at all as long as their actions don't match their words ie, as long as they pollute the land etc.

That site also allegedly quotes Dan Evahema, on whose behalf the Hopi Nation won a lawsuit for misrepresenting his word.
The site also quotes Mails' Hopi Survival Kit, which is filled with falsehoods.
Also quotes Frank Waters' Book of the Hopi, also filled with falsehoods. An amazon review goes into the details.

-----------------
http://www.amazon.com/Book-Hopi-Frank-Waters/product-reviews/0140045279/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R1VK4TV2S8K8OX
26 of 29 people found the following review helpful:
 Interesting, but not accurate, August 7, 2007
By  A Skeptical Reader (Westminster, MD United States) - See all my reviews

The primary informant on Hopi beliefs consulted by Frank Waters was Oswald "White Bear" Fredericks. Oswald was married to a white woman, had been converted to Christianity, and was not a fully initiated Hopi Indian. Thus, as one might expect, many of the traditions reported in this book are inaccurate. See: McLeod, Roxie. Dreams and rumors: a history of "Book of the Hopi". Thesis (M.A.)--Univ. of Colorado, 1994. Pp. 330. MLA. For a more accurate version of Hopi beliefs, try "The Fourth World of the Hopis" by Harold Courlander.

---------------------

The third site is quoting from Black Elk Speaks. Basically the work is Niehardt's words far more than BE's. Just look at the passage they quote. Basically everything I bolded sounds like it came straight out of the Bible, right from Revelations. Indians don't go around telling stories with, "Behold! Yonder!" etc.

-----------------------
Then the two men spoke together and they said: "Behold him, the being with four legs!"

I looked and saw a bay horse standing there, and he began to speak: "Behold me!" he said. "My life history you shall see." Then he wheeled about to where the sun goes down, and said: "Behold them! Their history you shall know."

I looked, and there were twelve black horses yonder all abreast with necklaces of bison hoofs, and they were beautiful, but I was frightened, because their manes were lightning and there was thunder in their nostrils.

Then the bay horse wheeled to where the great white giant lives (the north) and said: "Behold!" And yonder there were twelve white horses all abreast. Their manes were flowing like a blizzard wind and from their noses came a roaring, and all about them white geese soared and circled.

Then the bay wheeled round to where the sun shines continually (the east) and bade me look; and there twelve sorrel horses, with necklaces of elk's teeth, stood abreast with eyes that glimmered like the daybreak star and manes of morning light.

Then the bay wheeled once again to look upon the place where you are always facing (the south), and yonder stood twelve buckskins all abreast with horns upon their heads and manes that lived and grew like trees and grasses.

---------------

And that last one...where to begin?

"It's believed that more than 120 native American Indian tribes speak of what's believed to be the lost civilization of Atlantis."

What the...? I don't know of even one.

"We are currently in a time of "purification" that will lead us into an enlightened Fifth Sun starting 12.21.2012. This period is also called the "Hopi Emergence. Where did they get this stuff anyway?"

If by they, he means white Newagers, I'd say "they" make it up. The Hopi Emergence is their origin story. Didn't he even know what emergence means?

"Speaking Wind, an elder in the Pueblo tribe, says that 2012 is a transition into a new ear as well."

Which Pueblo? There are eighteen distinct peoples.

Found "Speaking Wind" AKA Patrick Quirk. Don't know if he was Pueblo or not, but he's obviously not fullblood. Apparently best known for an appearance on Art Bell.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&safe=off&oq=&q=%22speaking+wind%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=RkiRS6vwM9D2lwfxkvj7AQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CA0QqwQwAA#

"The Seneca Indians have an even wilder shaman of sorts who went by the name of Moses Shongo (he died in 1925). He foresaw a 25 year period of purification beginning in 1987 (the Harmonic Convergence year) and ending in 2012 of course. The earth would basically purge itself of it's misconceptions and step into an enlightened state."

Shongo was actually the grandfather of Twyla Nitsche. She's in more than a few threads in here...back to the article.

I really don't see us being all that more enlightened since 1987. ::)
And how does a planet "purge itself of misconceptions? Did the planet think greed and materialism were good things? No, far too many people do.

"Similar stories are legend around the world from the Far East, to India's Vedic texts, to South Africa's Zulu Indians,"

Since when are Zulus "Indians"?

If you go to the author's list of articles, you get titles like "Parable of the Light Steward". Plus one interesting endorsement of a Tea Party candidate who believes the govt carried out 9-11. Can't say I find him credible.

Offline 2012hoax

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2010, 05:47:51 am »
Thank you... that was basically my read on it.

Offline 2012hoax

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 04:14:33 pm »
What about Thomas Banacyca? 

http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/bayanaca.html
http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi.html

The so-called "Hopi Prophecy" and the "Hopi Prophecy Rock" are frequently referenced motifs in the 2012 gestalt.

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2010, 03:56:31 am »
And that last one...where to begin?

"It's believed that more than 120 native American Indian tribes speak of what's believed to be the lost civilization of Atlantis."

What the...? I don't know of even one.

"We are currently in a time of "purification" that will lead us into an enlightened Fifth Sun starting 12.21.2012. This period is also called the "Hopi Emergence. Where did they get this stuff anyway?"

If by they, he means white Newagers, I'd say "they" make it up. The Hopi Emergence is their origin story. Didn't he even know what emergence means?

"Speaking Wind, an elder in the Pueblo tribe, says that 2012 is a transition into a new ear as well."

Which Pueblo? There are eighteen distinct peoples.

Found "Speaking Wind" AKA Patrick Quirk. Don't know if he was Pueblo or not, but he's obviously not fullblood. Apparently best known for an appearance on Art Bell.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&safe=off&oq=&q=%22speaking+wind%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=RkiRS6vwM9D2lwfxkvj7AQ&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CA0QqwQwAA#

"The Seneca Indians have an even wilder shaman of sorts who went by the name of Moses Shongo (he died in 1925). He foresaw a 25 year period of purification beginning in 1987 (the Harmonic Convergence year) and ending in 2012 of course. The earth would basically purge itself of it's misconceptions and step into an enlightened state."

Shongo was actually the grandfather of Twyla Nitsche. She's in more than a few threads in here...back to the article.

I really don't see us being all that more enlightened since 1987. ::)
And how does a planet "purge itself of misconceptions? Did the planet think greed and materialism were good things? No, far too many people do.

"Similar stories are legend around the world from the Far East, to India's Vedic texts, to South Africa's Zulu Indians,"

Since when are Zulus "Indians"?

If you go to the author's list of articles, you get titles like "Parable of the Light Steward". Plus one interesting endorsement of a Tea Party candidate who believes the govt carried out 9-11. Can't say I find him credible.

The cult archaeology industry strikes again: Augustus LePlongeon and his own brand of hyper-diffusonism, added together with peculiar re-incarnation religious beliefs. The victims are conned, and then share their ignorance together.

apukjij

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #7 on: March 10, 2010, 12:12:53 pm »
excellent question, Thomas Banacyca went to Passamaquoddy territory in the early 90's for a Sacred Hoop Gathering, i did not get close enough to meet him, he did address us in the Gathering, but he never mentioned Prophecy, i would be very interested in finding out how these prophecies were attributed to him!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #8 on: March 10, 2010, 03:09:27 pm »
What about Thomas Banacyca? 

http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/bayanaca.html
http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi.html

The so-called "Hopi Prophecy" and the "Hopi Prophecy Rock" are frequently referenced motifs in the 2012 gestalt.

Banyaca was certainly no fraud. He was a greatly respected man, conscientious objector during WWII who went to prison for it, spokesman for the Hopi for many years, and dedicated anti nuclear and peace activist and environmentalist. The second link seems to be a faithful reproduction of his speech at the UN. No doubt they probably cut and pasted it off of the many places it's available.

The first one is something else. It's basically an opinion piece by one of the Rainbow Family about the Hopi prophecies, and they've mixed together everything they've heard about the prophecies, both accurate and inaccurate.

The most obvious mistake is the claim that the Hopi were waiting for some Great White Savior to come save them. They do mention a White Brother in their traditions, but that doesn't mean his ancestors were from Europe. White has symbolism of a lot of things in all cultures besides Euro ancestry. All that bit about races of mankind is pure Nuage projection upon the prophecy as well.

I say all of this as an outsider to Hopi tradition of course. A Hopi could tell you much more, or more likely he'd be very reluctant to because of how it's frequently twisted and misinterpreted. The Hopi nation even has a law barring members from discussing spiritual matters with outsiders without tribal council permission.

Notice that the links come from the Rainbow Family website. There's some on them in here and even more at the Rick Ross anti cult website. It's a strange bunch, a hippie and neo hippie fakelore group with some aspects of a cult. They base their whole existence on a phony prophecy, the Warriors of the Rainbow, that was actually written by a Christian minister in the early 60s to try and convert Indians.

Offline clearwater

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #9 on: March 10, 2010, 03:59:09 pm »
I think part of the 2012 thing being perpetuated came when actor Jon Voight befriended Banyaca and Voight seems to have freaked out, came out publicly decades ago fanning fears of global doom and destruction. My take on it then was Banyaca told something to Voight that scared the crap out of him. I remember reading those news articles years ago with Voight photographed standing next to Banyaca, thinking to myself "oh here we go again."

I have a feeling that this is some of the fuel behind these exploitation "2012" movies now starting to appear.

clearwater

Offline 2012hoax

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #10 on: March 10, 2010, 06:38:35 pm »
What about Thomas Banacyca? 

http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/bayanaca.html
http://www.welcomehome.org/rainbow/prophecy/hopi.html

The so-called "Hopi Prophecy" and the "Hopi Prophecy Rock" are frequently referenced motifs in the 2012 gestalt.

Banyaca was certainly no fraud. He was a greatly respected man, conscientious objector during WWII who went to prison for it, spokesman for the Hopi for many years, and dedicated anti nuclear and peace activist and environmentalist. The second link seems to be a faithful reproduction of his speech at the UN. No doubt they probably cut and pasted it off of the many places it's available.

Noted, thank you.

The first one is something else. It's basically an opinion piece by one of the Rainbow Family about the Hopi prophecies, and they've mixed together everything they've heard about the prophecies, both accurate and inaccurate.

The most obvious mistake is the claim that the Hopi were waiting for some Great White Savior to come save them. They do mention a White Brother in their traditions, but that doesn't mean his ancestors were from Europe. White has symbolism of a lot of things in all cultures besides Euro ancestry. All that bit about races of mankind is pure Nuage projection upon the prophecy as well.

Exactly.  A friend of mine who is a Mayanist (that is, an archaeologist who studies the Mayan ruins) likes to point out what he calls "ethnocentrism"... which borders on, or crosses over into racism, when these "new age" people get a hold of these indigenous beliefs, and twist them to fit their peculiar mystic philosophies.  He (as a scientist) is very careful not to go beyond what the evidence indicates, and rejects as "new age projection" most of what the public at large "knows" about ancient cultures.  He also tends to suspect that the oral histories of the extant cultures have been heavily influenced by later cultures.  In the case of the Mayans, after the decline of their civilization, they lived within the Aztec people for centuries, before the Spanish arrived and started burning all the "pagan" books they could get their hands on.  Therefore the modern oral histories have a great deal of influence from Aztec and Spanish colonial themes. 

The influence can be seen in other things besides oral histories as well.  In Guatemala, the most common "folk instruments" are the Marimba (brought over by African slaves) and the Guitar (brought by the Spanish colonialists).  The only authentic folk instrument may be the Ocarina.   


I say all of this as an outsider to Hopi tradition of course. A Hopi could tell you much more, or more likely he'd be very reluctant to because of how it's frequently twisted and misinterpreted. The Hopi nation even has a law barring members from discussing spiritual matters with outsiders without tribal council permission.

That's a very interesting tidbit right there.... thank you.

Notice that the links come from the Rainbow Family website. There's some on them in here and even more at the Rick Ross anti cult website. It's a strange bunch, a hippie and neo hippie fakelore group with some aspects of a cult. They base their whole existence on a phony prophecy, the Warriors of the Rainbow, that was actually written by a Christian minister in the early 60s to try and convert Indians.

The New Age movement likes to run around and pick whatever pieces of various cultures "sound good" to them... native American cultures are frequently exploited, but also Indian (as in the sub-continent of South Asia), Nepalese, Chinese, Inuit, and anything that can be labeled 'ancient'.   The new agers spew so much crap, its a wonder they don't choke on their own excrement.

Very good information.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2010, 06:51:40 pm by 2012hoax »

Offline Unegv Waya

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2010, 08:59:58 pm »
Paul, thank you for the cartoon.  I got the best belly laugh that I've had in a while.  Again, thanks! :)
nvwatohiyadv

Offline Paul123

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 10:43:32 pm »
Paul, thank you for the cartoon.  I got the best belly laugh that I've had in a while.  Again, thanks! :)


Ah Thank you,, just trying to lighten this place up a bit.
You may also like this one here
 http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1572.msg22506#msg22506

Offline educatedindian

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2010, 12:06:57 pm »
There's a discussion on a history academic listserv, H-Latmam, that should be of interest, scholars giving their recommendations on how to deal with the 2012 hoax among the general public, lots of sources.


Start here and then go to the relevant posts.
http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=lx&list=H-LatAm&user=&pw=&month=1003
-------------------

Hello,

I would like to call upon the help of my fellow H-LATAM members once
again. I have been charged with giving a talk for the "folks on the
street" about the Mayan calendar and 2012 (the talk is in late May).
This talk will be for a group of "interested residents" and museum
personnel. I am one of the only Latin Americanists/Mayanists in the
area so this one fell to me. I have given some basic lectures on the
Mayan calendar to my undergraduate classes (relying heavily on
Leon-Portilla and Michael Coe), but I need some help pulling together
materials that (visual, audio, etc...) that may appeal to those who
are consumed by the 2012 hysteria. Any and ALL ideas, advice would be
greatly appreciated.

--------
For a superb study of the Maya concept of time see Barbara Tedlock,
Time and the Highland Maya (Rev. ed., Albuquerque, 1992),

-------
My starting point would be the following:

http://anthonyfaveni.com/

I was fortunate to have listened to one of his lectures last year.  It was
excellent.

-------
I would consult Barbara Tedlock's Time and the Highland Maya, and look
over Linda Schele's work with all her other co-writers.
Success!

------
One of the counselors in our student psychological services told me that the
greatest number of student complaints they've had lately have been from
students stricken with anxiety over fear of 2012.

There is a good and witty article on-line from the  Houston Museum of
Natural Science,  :

2012: It’s the end of the world as we know it (and I feel fine)
http://www.enhouston.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1482&catid=40:houston-museums

-----
Too detailed perhaps for a public presentation but good for your prep:

http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/index.html

I also highly recommend Anthony Aveni. He has a version of his talk in
Archaeology magazine:

http://www.archaeology.org/0911/2012/

Good luck!

-----
May I suggest Anthony Aveni's new book: The End of Time.  Here is a link
to a review I wrote for AZTLAN: The FAMSI Jurnal online

http://research.famsi.org/aztlan/uploads/reviews/Aveni_2012_rev.pdf


There have also been many heated discussions of the topic on the
discussion list AZTLAN.  You can look through the archives by entering
2012 as the topic:

http://www.famsi.org/pipermail/aztlan/

-----
The mythic time of the Mayan religious calendar is an interesting
subject - its been great to receive all of these resources. Thank you.

I'd like to add a different twist on the subject as it relates to the
mythic time of the Andean indigenous nationalities' concept of the
'pachakuti' (pachacuti) [a short spanish description bellow]. I think
the similarities of a cyclical time in Andean and Mayan conceptions of
history are an important contrast to the linear history of western
minds. The pachakuti is similar to '2012' in that it suggest the
'destruction' of the world as we know it, but as a result it also
suggests the opportunity for a rebirth. For indigenous peoples this is
not something to be feared, but is a mythic 'return' to the
potentialities of an indigenous world. For this reason the indigenous
movement party in Ecuador is named Movimiento de Unidad Plurinacional
Pachakutik Nuevo País (MUPP-NP). I wonder if for contemporary Mayans
the mythic time of their calendar similarly also suggests a hopeful
new beginning rather than just an 'end', which would be an important
comment for an audience with a  western-european perspective.

-----
Regarding Craig Hendricks' response--a source that might help--I don't
think he mentioned the Maya specifically, but Stephen J. Gould's
_Questioning the Millenium_ is a short, engaging read that could
provide multiple examples of humans working themselves into a tizzy
over interpretations of their own, arbitrary counting!

----
As has already been pointed out, Tony Aveni's book is an excellent
starting point.  Here is a review of that book by our own John
Schwaller:

http://research.famsi.org/aztlan/uploads/reviews/Aveni_2012_rev.pdf

Another resource on the FAMSI website is by Mark Van Stone (someone
you may wish to contact directly):

http://www.famsi.org/research/vanstone/2012/index.html

And there is Dr. John Hoopes, who has been studying the 2012
phenomenon from many angles.  As a mesoamerican archaeologist he is
well versed in the scholarly literature.  However, he is also studying
the modern cultural phenomenon and what it may represent from an
anthropological perspective.

You asked for audio materials, here is an NPR segment on 2012 that has
a brief comment by Hoopes at the end.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111341700

And here is John's blog:

http://people.tribe.net/hoopes/blog/1d95e99a-6805-45b2-b746-fca06c27d20e

Again, you may wish to contact him directly for useful tips.

I have a few other names of scholars that would be open to direct
communication if you contact me off-list.

-----
After 52 moons cast up on these coasts among historians, I have
learned that, before one consults the wisdom of the crowd or the
oracle on the pyramid, one consults the archives.

The H-LATAM archive includes a helpful quick outline by Quetzil
Castañeda, posted in 2007 (to be precise, Sat, 08 Jun 2007 18:14:17
-0400), of the diverse artifacts and texts (from souvenir t-shirts to
thickly-documented New Age books to gonzo movies) that contribute to
the current harmonic convergence of American anxieties upon "the"
Mayan calendar.  For those who have to give an outreach talk, it
suggests an approach.  The post itself may be too social
constructionist for an outreach talk; but I think that "interested
residents" might be relieved to hear about the contemporary sources of
the prophecies.

Offline amorYcohetes

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Re: 2012 Hoax Researcher Requests Help
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2010, 03:19:43 am »
Quote
I'd like to add a different twist on the subject as it relates to the mythic time of the Andean indigenous nationalities' concept of the 'pachakuti' (pachacuti) [a short spanish description bellow]. I think the similarities of a cyclical time in Andean and Mayan conceptions of history are an important contrast to the linear history of western minds. The pachakuti is similar to '2012' in that it suggest the 'destruction' of the world as we know it, but as a result it also suggests the opportunity for a rebirth. For indigenous peoples this is not something to be feared, but is a mythic 'return' to the potentialities of an indigenous world. For this reason the indigenous movement party in Ecuador is named Movimiento de Unidad Plurinacional Pachakutik Nuevo País (MUPP-NP). I wonder if for contemporary Mayans the mythic time of their calendar similarly also suggests a hopeful new beginning rather than just an 'end', which would be an important comment for an audience with a western-european perspective.
Just to respond to this:  a couple years ago I attended a conference at TUFTS University in the Boston area, on "Indigenous Movements and Intellectuals" http://ase.tufts.edu/anthropology/indigenous_movements/abstracts.html and one of the speakers, Victor Montejo http://nas.ucdavis.edu/site/people/faculty/vmontejo.html  addressed "the participation of Maya intellectuals in the construction of a political future based on the prophecies of the Thirteen Baktun or end of the 5th Maya Millennium."  In fact, if I recall rightly, Dr. Montejo did say that there is Maya organizing around the idea of the end of the baktun representing a new chance for things (ie, power) to be rebalanced, and that that was part of why Rigoberta Menchú had chosen the 2007 election cycle to make a first run for president in Guatemala (next election cycle will be 2012).  I seem to remember he also referred to the association of past rebellions against colonization with dates that represented significant transitions in the Mayan calendar.  Anyway, he's a published scholar so if you're researching 2012 you might want to look up his book, Maya Intellectual Rennaisance: Identity, Representation, and Leadership
- Chapter 7 looks like it talks more about this issue:  http://books.google.com/books?id=dVlQF2UNNJgC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Víctor+Montejo&source=bl&ots=hKM1CcEm78&sig=1ZqMpFCKwCVOOafEOL-sJO-2DP8&hl=en&ei=xM69S6nRG4aBlAeG2IX5Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CA8Q6AEwAjgK#v=onepage&q&f=false
Hope this was a helpful contribution.