Author Topic: Just when you thought politics couldn't get any stranger - lesbians "sage" the W  (Read 29539 times)

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Just when you thought politics... It just got really ugly!
« Reply #15 on: December 24, 2008, 07:14:28 pm »
She must have deliberately re-posted the video after the YouTube bot removed it.  She would have had to have contacted YouTube with an explanation to be able to repost the video.  The comments may have disappeared that way, but I know she was aware of them since she couldn't have sent me an apolgy to my YouTube inbox without reading and clicking on my comment first.

This piece of white feminist wisdom was posted by “snowyowlwomon???

We got her comment spammed so to view it you have to choose the “Show all comments??? option and then
Click on “show??? where it says “Comment(s) marked as spam Show???
 
 “Cnogaard is right!
These ignorant casino rats don't know anything about spiritualty. They're too drunk and lazy to go to university. They just want to drag us into their reservation sewers with them. My skin is white as a feather but my DNA is more red than these hater's will ever be. I wish these vermin would just go extinct!???

It seems strange that Kate/YouTube would remove my comment, but not this one.

Didn’t Goebbels depict the Jews as hordes of sewer-dwelling rats and a race of vermin?

Many of us have flagged for “hate speech??? by Kate’s supporters can’t post to YouTube for 45 days.  Snowyowlwomon, however, is free to share her wisdom with the world.

I still remeber that this is exactly the type of thing that the white lesbian-feminists said to us at our last big protest in Tucson. (except they called us casino niggers) I think I was about 13 or 14, but I will always remember the bright red faces and the absolute hatred directed at us simply for not being extinct. 

Those that said the most hateful things were always the women and it always involved extinction.

I went into this trying to be calm and peaceful. My last in-person memories of Kate were of amiably chatting with her and her partner Urvashi Vaid at a protest in Boston. I had never heard of her doing anything racist in the past, but here on the East Coast NDN issues generally don't come up as often or in quite the same ways. Like the differences between Southern racism (against African-Americans) and Northern racism, the East Coast attitudes about Native people are based on a degree of ignorance that crosses into invisibility. Many people out here have never met a traditional Native person, and the "NDNs" they may know are almost always assimilated, or white PODIAs. Or frauds.

When this started, I thought of her as someone who could be reached. But this whole thing has become sickening.

I am stunned, appalled and horrified by the "extinction" comments.  That those comments would stay up... 

So many white people are willing to mouth the PC thing up until the point where it infringes on what they think are their "rights". Then people's true colors show (no pun intended).

I am trying to say something here, but I really feel stunned and speechless. And I know that what I feel in response to comments like that - based on empathy and concern for those I love vs a lifetime of experiencing that crap - is only a pale echo of what others here must feel.

Disgusting, shameful, unacceptable.

Offline ska

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I second that emotion, Kathryn.

She's made her politics clear.  That the racist, hateful, eugenicist comment is allowed to stand is evidence of a complete lack of Kate Clinton's ability to make sense of the mess she has created.

Given her and her partner's public roles as intellectuals and civil rights activists it is even more shameful.  These are not your "country bumpkin" variety of racists that can be excused for their "ignorance".  Kate Clinton obviously has educated, informed people around her who are doing an incredibly lousy job of helping her deal with this issue in an effective manner.

frederica

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I think she has removed the comments, saw them yestercay, gone today?

Offline Defend the Sacred

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I think she has removed the comments, saw them yestercay, gone today?

You need to go to the "View All [number] Comments" view, at the bottom of the comments column. Try this URL: http://www.youtube.com/comment_servlet?all_comments&v=MXKSkZigG6o&fromurl=/watch%3Fv%3DMXKSkZigG6o

What happens is that when enough people "thumbs down" a comment, and/or mark it as spam, it is hidden in the main view. You have to click on the full view to see those comments. Even then, some comments are hidden unless you click on the grey text that says, "Comment(s) marked as spam." I just checked, and the above link shows 41 comments.

Though some other stuff might be going on, too. Earlier, the video was gone, replaced with text that said, "This video has been removed." But a few minutes later it was back up. Perhaps some back and forth is happening, maybe with the YouTube staff who have to evaluate it each time it's flagged as racist.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 09:00:10 pm by Kathryn NicDh? na »

frederica

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Well it is no doubt racist and stereotyping. She left little to the imagination.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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It's getting even uglier. The racists are now resorting to misogynist slurs and blatant sockpuppeting. The comments are now full of peurile, juvenile, condescending and abusive attempts at humour, as well as ad hominem attacks on those of us who have attempted to find some resolution to the situation.

With friends like those...

frederica

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I look at that as they need to clean their own house before they try to say they are going to "clean the White House". or any one elses.  A lot have such a strong sense of entitlement, this "I want it",  "I gotta have it" mentality.  They will not let anyone come up with a resolution. It's just going to go down hill.  It's all about control now, sock-puppets and all.  Doing something for all the wrong reasons will come back.

Offline Superdog

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Just a quick update.  The two videos have been removed by Kate Clinton.  There's a newer one up.  Apparently they're still going through with meeting at DuPont Circle, but no mention of her "joke"....now she's stating an unnamed "shaman" has volunteered to lead them.

It's progress....a little

frederica

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She has just moved them, though she did do away with the first.  The mop, bucket and sage the White House is on her site http://www.kateclinton.com   It's under watch previous entires.  This group is over my head,  How they can "Sage" anything from 12 blocks away is more for publicity. Now that's just my opinion.

Offline Superdog

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The publicity is what this is all about in the first place...it's a stunt...a joke.  I think she still believes that she's on the cutting edge of something.  The paragraph on kateclinton.com below the video ends with this little snippet.

"Watch for more details of our spontaneous, ingenious spectacle. Sage the White House!"

She's talking out of both sides of her mouth on this one...the paragraph before says bring cleaning products, but all the other info says "sage" the white house.  Something tells me that she's acting one way in public, but has an agenda not to give in in front of her core fans.  The fact that she calls her spectacle "ingenious" and "spontaneous" are both ironic.  It's neither.  This is a planned event...nothing spontaneous about that and it's certainly not original so I wonder how it elevates to ingenious on the merit that she heard about one rumor and created a stunt around that rumor...whether it was true or not.

Oh boy....

Well...other than this mess I happen to think she's a good humorist and on the right track on a lot of things....I think in this case she's stepped into something way too deep for her and she's scared (yes....terrified) to "give in" to outside forces as that goes against the "don't get beaten by 'the man'" counterculture she gets her core group of fans from.

Suddenly in this case she and some of her fans have taken the stance that now Native American people and our desire to not be mocked are modes of "oppression" for her and her fans (and just for clarification as I've seen some of her fans get upset when talking about them ....I mean any kind of person, man, woman or beast, gay or straight who is a fan of hers and I'm not alliterating to or targeting any specific group of individuals other than those who consider themselves fans of Kate Clinton).....

So there you have it....now we're oppressing non-Indians (sic)....

frederica

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I think yor are right.  I know looking at it she at first said it was a "joke".  Then I guess she decided she could benefit from the publicity involving her own politics.  It's like trying to advance an agenda.

Offline Superdog

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For those that wanna see it the new vid is here....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJMnbrzSjg&feature=channel_page

Bland version of the other ones just outlining where to meet and what to bring and check to see what security will let you in with as well as an invitation to conduct your own "saging" at your home.  She also mentions an unnamed "shaman" who will be conducting things for them.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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She also mentions an unnamed "shaman" who will be conducting things for them.

See, I think this may be worse than just Kate and her friends flailing about on their own. With the degree of ignorance she's shown about Indigenous ceremony and cultural standards - and the fact she's using the word "shaman" - I'll be stunned if this "shaman" is *not* one of the appropriators and frauds we've all heard of.

It's classic for white people in this position to find some sellout to make them feel ok about their behaviour, so they can ignore the voices of the majority who are telling them that what they're doing is not OK.

I think it's also telling that this "shaman" is so far unnamed. Have any actual NDN groups, or Indigenous groups of any sort, been asked for help, or even input?  Again, seeing how this has gone so far, I'll be stunned if any non-Nuage groups or individuals are listened to.

I gave Kate the link to this forum. She and her people now have access to information about who is and isn't legit in these matters. But given recent behaviour from that camp, I have no expectation whatsoever that this event will be respectful of any Indigenous culture. Respect just doesn't fit with what we've seen so far.

frederica

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I think someone was trying to  contact a group.  It's all so flip to me, her attitude I mean.  It looks like publicity.  Now they are "cleaning Washington DC".  Good luck on that.   I suppose bringing in a Shameon makes it ok to misuse Sage, at least in her mind.  I know little of her or her supporter's  politics,  but it always suprises me when people buy into this sort of thing.  It will be interesting to see if they contact the news people to let them know what they are doing, trying to get coverage.  You usually don't find respect with people that have their own agenda.

Offline 180IQ

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I don't see a way to flag a video as "racist" - that is not one of the options when you look for a reason to give a red flag. Also, every link to a Kate Clinton video that wasn't there said it had been "removed by the user". When youtube removes a video, it will cite "terms of use violation" or copyright infringement or some such - which hasn't been the case with these videos.