Author Topic: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee aka Giovanni de Carlo aka "The Flute Keeper"  (Read 108093 times)

Offline Emmia

  • Posts: 21
I hear that there are plans being made for him to perform in Sweden and I would like to hear what you guys on the NAFPS forum know about him.

What I know so far is that he claims to be Kiowa and that he was responsible for Sacred Spirit, Sacred Ground and other albums. I have heard that music for the first Sacred Spirit album was taken from the Smithsonian archives, among them songs that should never had been released. I don't know the whole story though. Sacred Ground (if it's the one with Bill Miller among others) is an ok album though, I have never heard his name mentioned in connection with it though.

He calls himself the Flute Keeper and he lives in Germany.

Does anyone know any more about Tdom Bah Toden Xkee?

Thanks for your help.


[added his real name to thread title -k]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:38:50 pm by Kathryn »

Offline Ingeborg

  • Friends
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2008, 06:12:50 pm »
This definitely does not belong in the non-fraud section.

The real-life name of the person is Giovanni de Carlo, sometimes Gio de Carlo.

According to the information published by who put out two warnings on him in
2005 and 2007, Mr de Carlo misrepresents himself as a Grammy winner and NAMMY nominee.
Quite contrary to his claims, neither the Kiowa nation or the Native American Church list him as a
member according to the INAFA research.

I suppose this makes him a white exploiter of ndn culture cashing in on selling ndn-style music,
wearing fake regalia at his gigs and pretending to be ndn. With what has been published here in a
different thread, he now also seems to promote sellers of ceremony.

UPDATE - December, 2005: Giovanni de Carlo, the self-proclaimed "flute keeper," has
surfaced in a new venture. His new Web site is: His new contact information is
as follows:

Giovanni de Carlo
14609 Saticoy, #21
Van Nuys, CA 91405
Phone: 1-818-988-3090

Important: Much of the biography for the so-called "Flute Keeper" is pure fiction, including his false
assertion that he received a NAMMY and a GRAMMY for his recording, Sacred Ground. Look deeper
into his claims; you will find further falsehoods.

This is an UPDATE concerning the warning given about Giovanni de Carlo(Gio), who refers to
himself as "The Flute Keeper." The original warning was as follows:

Transgression: Giovanni de Carlo attends powwows or arts/crafts events and purchases Native
American flute-related materials using worthless checks and a worthless debit card. He wrote a
bad check to one particular flute maker at the Tulsa Indian Art Festival for 45 books, one flute, and
two CDs. Giovanni de Carlo cannot be located to make restitution for his bad debt. The flute maker
who was victimized by Gio has filed a report with the Tulsa police department. This is only one
example of de Carlo's activities.

Gio also bills himself as being a GRAMMY Award winner and a NAMMY Award nominee. Neither
claim is true, and both entities have been notified of his false promotional claims. At present,
Giovanni de Carlo is doing workshops for the Confederated Tribes of Coos, Lower Umpqua, and
Siuslaw Indians in Oregon. The Human Services Program Manager, Lorre G. Lewis, Ph.D., for the
tribal community contacted the INAFA when she saw our consumer alert on our Web site. He was
also recently seen at a festival in Venice Beach, California, and is rumoured to be heading to
Greece, next.

Recently, Gio found the INAFA consumer warning on our Web site. He wrote INAFA an e-mail that
was completely filled with rage and very unsavory, threatening language. Local authorities have
been made aware of the threat made by Giovanni de Carlo against the INAFA and Dr. Kathleen
Joyce-Grendahl. Since then, INAFA has received numerous e-mails from other people who have
been victimized by Gio. Many people have written to INAFA expressing appreciation for the warning
about him, and, as a result, have opted not to do business with de Carlo.

Gio’s present contact information is only a Web site address on which he does not list an address
or a phone number. If one wants to order something from him, the only way to do so is by
contacting him via e-mail. His present Web site is:

Other addresses that we have on file for de Carlo are as follows:

Giovanni de Carlo Publishing, Inc./ Tax ID: 36-428-3574 (Illinois)
4619 San Dario Avenue, #502
Laredo, TX 78041-5773


Giovanni de Carlo
1626 West 18th Pl 3-Rr
Chicago, IL 60608
Phone: 312-492-8651

In addition, de Carlo has another address listing him in Idaho.

INAFA encourages its members to use caution when doing business with this individual. And, if you
have further information, please contact INAFA immediately and we will put you in contact with the
appropriate individuals/authorities.

UPDATE - August, 2007: Giovanni de Carlo, the self-proclaimed "flute keeper," has surfaced
in Europe.

INAFA has recently received numerous complaints and advisories from people in Europe about the
whereabouts and their dealings with Giovanni de Carlo, also known as "Gio", "The Flute Keeper,"
and "Tdom Bah Toden Xkee." INAFA continues to council caution in doing business or hiring this
individual. Please research and verify his credentials and award claims carefully. According to the
Kiowa, they have no record of this person as being a member of any type of the their tribal nation.
The Native American Church does not recognize him as being a legitimate shaman, nor is he listed
as a member of the church itself. Please contact INAFA if you have seen this individual, so that we
may notify the appropriate authorities.

Here is a recent statement that INAFA received concerning the self-proclaimed Flute Keeper. As
these people are concerned about their personal safety, complete names are being kept private:

"Dear Sir, presently an american speaking individual tours throughout northern Germany and The
Netherlands. He Claims to belong to the Kiowa people. He offers a.o. native american flute
concerts, hand made native american flutes and workshops to learn making them. For his flute
production he uses a modern carpenter's machine shop as can be seen at his website. His
remarks about native american indian people, their history and the rôle of the white people in
relation to them are rather nebulous and aggressive. His claims about his position in the native
american and international music world (awards, recognition etc.) are rather bold. At so called Pow
Wows he arranges naming ceremonies according to Indian heritage culture as he claims. The
Kiowa Tribe Enrollment office has informed us officially with a document signed by the Notary Public
that the subject person is not shown on the current membership roll of the Kiowa Tribe of

"My partner and I talked with Gio after a concert in Offenbach/near Frankfurt. Giovanni de Carlo
invited my partner to do a concert together and gave us a date, when he have time for this and we
should organize this for him. This was very short-thermed so that I didn´t research for him more
than I did find on his gilamusic – site.We did the Concert and I really don’t like this Gio and his way
to treat the people and he was obviously not spirituell or shaman or in any way in contact with
mother earth that was my experience with him. We don’t have troubles with him, but he was not
really comfort with the money he got, he tried to exert pressure on my partner with the arguments
that he can help him to get successful through his Name (Thom Bah Toden Kxee, Grammy etc.) but
I had the feeling that its not good to do any more business with him and so we did not.

I hope it will help you and preserve people for more troubles with him."

From his website -  - there is a link to this site with a new biography:

The Flute Keeper
I have decided that after this year I will have no biography...
Instead, I will let those who know me decide who am I...
Dear friends:
Recently I received an e-mail with a link to a page in the net that suggests that I have removed my
biography because I have something to hide. This shows that there are still people in this world
who sees nothing but suspicios in other peoples doings.
The reason I had my biography removed from this site was Bigotry. Yes, bigotry and the hate I have
seen during my travels. This letter is to all peoples of the world, Natives from the Americas and Non
Natives from the rest of this piece of land we call world.
During my travelings I have had the opportunity to visit many Pow Wows both in the USA and other
countries. In Germany I have found more Pow Wows taking place than in any other country outside
the USA and, it is there where I came to realize that we, the human race, is full of hate and envy
and looking for control of others in one way on another.
Who owns a race, a tradition, a culture and has the right to impose it to others?
Over 200 years ago, a group of immigrants came to our shores and took upon themselves to
colonize a land who was not theirs. That, we all know and we all have our views as to what was
done and what took place. It is a sad fact and it is even sadder to look back in history and see
what was done. Killings, restrictions, the implementation of new rules and so many other things
that took place but, we all have to start looking at we can do in the future for our children and
those who would follow. I am not saying that we have to surrender, NO, we have to fight back and
show these people we are PEOPLE of this planet, with dreams, pain, laughter and lots... lots of love
for what we have in our lives.
But since when do we - Natives, own anything? One of the main roots of our believes is that we
have NO Ownership of anything, we are just the Care Takers of what is around us and we are here
to pass it on. Everyday I heard that from my elders, from the ones around me and from those who
travel the world in gatherings and belong to Native Tribes. But, in the other hand, and at the same
time... there is a constant attack to those who have taken upon themselves to follow the Native
Ways. Yes, there are those who don´t seem to know better and those who have their own ideas as
to what Natives are. Dancing with wolves sure didn't´t help much and many just like to dress up like
Indians and have fun. HAVE FUN.
You may say that Having Fun with others culture is not the right thing to do.. careful, do not spit
against the wind. Most of our Native Brothers are doing quite the same by celebrating
Thanksgiving, Xmas, 5 de Mayo, 4th of July, October Fest, St. Patrick's day and so many others I
could spend a page listings them.
It seems to me that by showing, and helping, those interested in our culture would create an
awareness of who and what we are. All religions of the world have become respected and
powerful by inviting others, to a part of it and then it is only then, that the group make a stand in
the eyes of others.
I have encountered many people, again Native and Non Native, FIGHTING over the control of these
Native American events. How stupid can this be and, how stupid can these people be in doing so?.
Lets analyze this and we can see that those Non Native argue they know better because they
have read the book (a book they wrote in the first place), then we have the Natives who argue that
their Culture is now been stolen. How can you steal something that is not yours to keep in the first
place?. Instead, go out and show how we do things it would be then easier for then to follow the
right way. Non Natives would then have the opportunity to see from those who know and be able
to continue doing what is right. But, we have another group around us.. this group is the most
dangerous of them all, those who by pretending to be REAL Indians (Natives and Non Natives, the
so called ADOPTED or I was an Indian in another life) go around attacking those who don´t follow
their ways of doing things. Those you can see in many Pow Wows in Europe. They go around (or
sending mails) talking about others and saying this or such about any Pow Wow, or Indian fest
gathering that does not fit their ways or con expectations (fund raisin for poor Lakotas, to solve
some tribal problem and so many other scams). These so call Real Natives, you can in Pow Wows
where THEY get paid to attend... Money is the issue here.
Culture is not something we have the right to Own. Culture is something we share and shows who
we are and what we are made of. It is important to share this culture and to pass it on to those who
want it.
This my friends, is the reason why I have chossen to be a member of a new tribe. A tribe so old
that goes to the begining of time, before The Creator was even thinking about all of these mess we
have created in our own. This Tribe is the Human Race.

The new bio does indeed put forward the notion that Mr de Carlo is ndn, while in fact he is a white
American. However, until earlier this year, there was a biography to be found at a site hosted by
Angelfire which said de Carlo was a white musician, and had an account of how he met this elderly
Kiowa gentleman who taught him to play the flute, eventually adopted him, and passed him his
own title of „The Flute Keeper“ before his death.

The site is still existent, but a few changes were effected to the bio published there:

GiLa Music is the child of de Carlo Publishing Inc. and de Carlo Productions.
de carlo Publishing Inc. Was founded in 1986 as a publishing company in the state of Illinois. Its first
publications were books of The Flute Keeper - in those days best known as Giovanni de Carlo (his
Indian name of Tdom Bah Toden Xkee was given to him ten years later when he became known
for his flute music) independent editor of text books for Scott Foresman and Wesley (Glenview
Illinois) where he worked in the Math and Spanish departments. Many books were published by this
company for many independent editorials being the most popular the reference books made to
order for small specialty bookstores.
One of those manuals How To Play kena (a traditional Andes flute) was done by the people of de
Carlo Publishing and in particular by Giovanni de Carlo. While doing this research Mr de Carlo
became interested in the study of ancient instruments (at that time he was also working in another
book called Cocolixtle - the history of the 1542 invasion of the Americas; a book based in legends
passed on from word to mouth and very little to do with the history written by the Spaniards) and in
the use and reproduction - recreation based in lost instructions of such musicals instruments. His
home soon became a museum of musical instruments: Ocarinas, clay flutes, wooden flutes, river
cane flutes, more ocarinas, drums, sea shells (caracoles), teponaztles, drums and more drums
and soon his space was nothing more than instruments hanging on the walls of his house in Illinois
and laying on the floors of his office, his house in Oklahoma and even friends houses - Those who
have been to some of his personal presentations know what we are talking about. One thing let to
another and soon Mr de Carlo was playing these instruments (many made him).
In 1990 de Carlo Publishing joined forces with a company dedicated to the creation of special
effects for museums and other specialty places like fairs, schools, etc. and while doing a job for a
museum Mr de Carlo was invited to help with the effects which required flute playing and... The
Flute Keeper became known to the world.
After the recording session the sound engineer created a Solo Take of the flute playing and gave it
to Mr de Carlo who was surprised after listening to the melody. That made him go back to the
studio and record a couple of melodies of his own creation, this time under the supervision of
professionals and with the inclusion of effects and other instruments. The result was a unique
flavor of traditional Native American Flute Music with a modern style. Mr de Carlo's genes flourished
in the magic of the Native American Flute (as we know he is a Native American Indian from the
Kiowa Nation of Oklahoma and in veins still flows the blood of his ancestors).
From 1990 until 2001, Mr de Carlo became part of the Pow Wow Circle and traveled all over the
USA participating and learning from the Elders the REAL History of his people. His flute playing
became a familiar to the Circle and he was invited to perform in every Pow Wow he assisted. It was
in Virginia that for the first time in the History of the Pow Wow ceremony he was invited to do the
opening blessing with his flute playing.
And the Flute Keeper was given his name. Oklahoma 1999, during a Tipi Meeting Mr Gus Palmer
from the Kiowa Nation-, the most respected medicine man alive nowadays gave Mr de Carlo his
Indian name. In his own words: "I was sitting outside the tipi after a long night of praying and rain.
Everyone was waiting for a hot cup of coffee and breakfast from the ladies who were working in
preparing it in the kitchen in a hose just a few steps from the tipi where the meeting had taken
place when my cousin, Norma, came to me and asked me to go to a blue pick up truck parked by
the side road. There Mr Palmer and his wife were sitting among many blankets and protecting
themselves from the morning cold. Mr Palmer asked me to sit on the back seat of the truck and I did
wondering since when He calls you something is about to be said. He started by saying how he
had known about my flute playing and my flute making and how it was about time for me to get an
Indian Name and so he called me Tdom Bah Toden Me (The Flute Player) but his wife sitting next to
him said; No, he is is not just a player. Again Mr Palmer called me Tdom Bah Toden Xkee and the
wife said; Yes, that is more like him, so, I became The Keeper of the Tube that makes Noise or to a
better sound: The Flute Keeper" .

In Germany and other European countries, Mr de Carlo apparently still promotes himself as being Kiowa, as you can see on this German website:

The caption underneath the photo reads:
„Tdom Bah Toden Xkee from the tribe of Kiowa nation“

In his above amended bio, de Carlo says „In Germany I have found more Pow Wows taking place
than in any other country outside the USA and, it is there where I came to realize that we, the
human race, is full of hate and envy and looking for control of others in one way on another.“
Mr de Carlo should know, as it is exactly the hobbyist powwow circuit he is touring here.

This announcement is just one example:

User: Yanqataq
Date: 14.02.2008 – 14:22

It is an ad for a powwow taking place March 1+2, 2008 in the Northern German town of Wildeshausen. Excerpts:

„Drum groups and more than 50 dancers from Middle Europe have announced their participation.
Members of various Indian tribes will show traditional dances which all have their own meaning and
history wearing traditional regalia of the Northern American Indian tribes. There will also be other
dances with them to which all spectators are invited to participate. Also one of the world's best
flute players will perform.
„Tdom Bah Toden Xkee“ is of the Kiowa tribe and already received several grammies for his film
music. There will also be vendors' booths offering Indian crafts and arts.
Martin Bornfleth from the town of Beckstedt, whose Indian name is „Mi Mahto“ and means
"Everything about him is bear“, is one of the organizers: „This Powwow is an event to honour Luis
Horn-Kerckhofs, called  "Whè Ch? " (raccoon) by his friends [...]“

User: Yanqataq
Date: March 3, 2008

quoting an article of a local newspaper, excerpt:
To honour "Whè-Ch? ", also „Tdom Bah Toden Xke[sic] from the Kiowa tribe arrived, one of the
world's best Indian flute players. He demonstrated his hand-made wooden flutes to the 800 visitors
at the premises. His music is known from Hollywood films and was well liked by the Powwow

This is an ad for an event taking place June 22-24, 2007:

„Concert with Tdom Bah Todem [sic] Xkee (The Flute Keeper), Kiowa Indian“

excerpt: „His concerts aren't just entertainment, he also teaches knowledge about his culture and
answers questions about his Indian descent. As a member of the Kiowa nation and of the „Native
American Church“, he travels all around the world to inform people about the life of his ancestors
and their living conditions today. He also does lectures on this issue.“

De Carlo did a two-hour concert on June 22, and taught flute playing on June 24, with a workshop
in which people were taught how to do their own flute at June 23.

Price tags:
Euro 15 for the concert, Euro 250 for the Native American Flute Workshop, with Euro 175 for further
family members participating (participants will not have to pay for the concert ticket). Flute playing
lessons on June 24, 12 p.m.-2 p.m., and 3 p.m.-5 p.m. Euro 18 for each session. Prices do not
include accom and food. Participants in the Flute Workshop will receive a booklet with info on how
to do their own flute bag, a CD with background music to do karaoke flute playing, „membership in
„The Flute Keepers [sic] Lodge“ (exchange of information via internet, meetings, CDs etc.), and
one Indian Lunch – enjoy an evening meal from „Flute Keeper's“ country“

Please note payment instructions at the right hand side of the ad: Payments are to be transfered to
the bank account of Giovanni de Carlo.

Another ad from an nuage organizer in the town of Bonn who cover the entire range of nuage stuff
(and who hosted several ceremonies done by a person we researched last year):
"A special night with dances and music of the Indians of North America
Tdom Bah Toden Xkee, Kiowa Indian from Oklahoma/USA and friends

November 1, 2008
4 p.m. to 6.30 p.m.

November 1, 2008
7.30p.m. to 10 p.m."

These are some Dutch sites presenting de Carlo as a Kiowa ndn from Oklahoma:!4B5ECE60426A0314!1377.entry

Dezember 2006
Tdom Bah Toden Xkee

„Winner of a Grammy Award and of the Native American Award, Tdom Bah Xtoden Kee [sic] of the
Oklahoma Kiowa nation, comes especially to the Netherlands!
This Indian from the Kiowa Nation from Oklahoma is better known as the Flute Keeper as indicates
his Indian name. This name means he is „The Keeper of the Tube that makes Noise“, or „The Flute
Keeper“. Tdom Bah is impressive. If you are into Indian music, nothing else is possible than your
having heard his flute playing already. With the well-known CD Sacred Spirit you can meet his
music, but Tdom Bah has also produced many albums, more than 30. For his album Sacred
Grounds he won the famous Grammy Award and the Native American Award. He played flute solos
in many films, of which one the most well-known is „Last of the Mohicans“. Tdom Bah also played
with artists of world renown, e.g. Carlos Santana, BB King, and Paul Simon (from Simon and

„23-01-2007 – Three Fires Meeting Place from the town of Zutphen is glad to be able to invite you
to a lecture done by Tdom Bah on the Native American Church and the Peyote ceremony.
Tdom Bah Toden Xkee is a member of the Kiowa people in Oklahoma and has led many gatherings
of this church. The NAC or the tipi way is a North American tradition which allows a combination of
the traditional Indian spirituality and christianity.
The Peyote ceremony has its origin in the Southern parts of the Americas. On Tuesday, February
13, Tdom Bah does another flute workshop. If you do not have your own flute, you can use an
Indian flute supplied by Tdom Bah.

The fee for the workshop at Tuesday, Feb 13, is Euro 15, the entrance for the lecture Wednesday,
Feb 14, is Euro 10. Info and booking (necessary!) with Marie-Josillems, tel. 0575-[...] or email:

A Danish site:

„Tdom Bah Toden Xkee (Gio de Carlos)
A Kiowa Indian whom I met in the town of Alborg in 2005 and was not taken aback by my feminine
side, as this is accepted in Indian circles. He gave me a great insight into his culture and we
exchanged gifts, as it is tradition between persons who respect each other fully and become

This site offers some further insight into de Carlo's business ethics:

Re: Ocarinas from Peru


We visited your website. You are using Our animation for the four-hole
(English Style System) ocarina scale and a page from Our songbook, as well PLUS a link to Our
song book at all for an Ocarina that uses the six-hole system....The most
devastating part, though, is that your are using Our endorsements for your products ("This product
has been endorsed by the Smithsonian Institute, Native American Indian education groups,
Orff-Schulwerk Music Educators, and the ethnic music departments of several universities.") Why
are you doing this???

We have discussed the Peruvian ocarinas in this group before.... If you look in the archives you will
see what our Argentinian friend says about them... Perhaps you would like to debate this issue.
Perhaps you would like to look at the animations we use on our website..... Since it is a commercial
website we chose to get permission for all the animations we use (except the ones we spent much
time making ourselves)

Who are you and what is your interest in ocarinas? Are you a maker, a player, or just a
MERCHANT? We are all three! And we collect, as well. There are several makers on this group and
all the folks here are serious collectors and should not be trifled with.

We have some beautiful Peruvian Ocarinas in our collection that look to be the same sort as you
sell.. They use a 6 hole system that does not work with our songbook. They have a beautiful tuning
system of thier own....why not have instructions for that system and not ours, which will not work on
the six-hole system...

Que Passa?

Sandi and Richard

"Just as a musician seeks musical expression, so the music in the
universe seeks to be expressed." Marlo Morgan on her WALKABOUT

----- Original Message -----
From: giovanni de carlo <giovanni@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 1999 6:19 AM
Subject: [Ocarinaclub] Ocarinas from Peru

> From: "giovanni de carlo" <giovanni@...>
> If you like Ocarinas, we have some very well made and beautifully tuned
from peru ($8.00)
This links to a discussion in a forum where a member confronted de Carlo with the alerts issued
on him.

Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3289
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2008, 09:34:36 pm »
Found him on YouTube:

Here he claims to be Kiowa from Oklahoma:

He speaks a few times during the piece. The place where he claims Kiowa is at 0:56

Oh dear. Check out the regalia in this one:

Looks like he found himself a couple Tipi pics to photoshop himself into. Tedium warning: The entire video is over five minutes of the same few images over and over and over again.

More regalia, and "war whoops" from the Germans at the end:

More of the same: Well, at the end. At the beginning a woman dances to recorded music.

The other videos that refer off these are of German Pow Wows. I'm not sure, but I think he's leading the dancers in this one:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 11:39:55 pm by Kathryn »

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2008, 03:56:35 am »
I watched a clip of him on his website playing flute while the German kids beat drums and shook rattles.....made my wife and I ill listening to him, now I know why.


  • Guest
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2008, 05:31:15 pm »
It seems that someone has taken much time TRASHING this person... but how is it that he is still around  (and has been for such a long time) Could it be that he is doing something right and there are those who are jealous of him?
Check this page and then decide:

Offline Ingeborg

  • Friends
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2008, 05:42:23 pm »
Good evening, Mr de Carlo - why are you using third person writing about yourself?

What is it in your opinion you bin doing right? And no, nobody's jealous of a person who misrepresents themselves. Thanks for the link, but several here already found your site.

Offline wolfhawaii

  • Posts: 293
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2008, 05:01:57 am »
Cocolixtle felt impelled to PM my with the update placed on the gilamusic site.....there is a lot of self=justifying statements there by the Flute Keeper. Worth reveiwing. Some questions came to mind: why would a courthouse allow you to set up a vendor booth on the access? Why would you have a photo taken of yourself in front of a teepee, especially if it is used for ceremony as you seem to imply? Why would you get a passport in 2 days unless you are a government stooge? Why am I not buying into your trip? Your sock puppet has holes in it.

Offline Ingeborg

  • Friends
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2008, 10:57:07 am »
Interestingly, Mr de Carlo has meanwhile left the forum after not even a day of membership.
While he was registered, his profile provided his e-mail address: Plus that
his nick Cocolixtle has been mentioned by himself in this bio:

While doing this research Mr de Carlo became interested in the study of ancient
instruments (at that time he was also working in another book called Cocolixtle - the history of
the 1542 invasion of the Americas [...]

I agree, the photos shown at his site don't prove anything except his taking a shorter or longer trip to Oklahoma and taking a few tourist photos (me and ...). Him with a makeshift vendor's stall in front of the Caddo Admin Building in no way is a proof of him being Kiowa - and in fact it says pretty clearly in the alert at that the Kiowa nation does not know Mr de Carlo.

Offline MatoSiWin

  • Posts: 57
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2008, 03:39:46 pm »
It seems that someone has taken much time TRASHING this person... but how is it that he is still around  (and has been for such a long time) Could it be that he is doing something right and there are those who are jealous of him?
Check this page and then decide:

Yeah.... Charles Manson is still around, too.... and still gains new "followers and admirers" every year.  He gets more mail than any other US prisoner, in fact.  Does that make him and the filth he espouses any more relevant? 
You'll have to come up with a better argument than that.

Offline MatoSiWin

  • Posts: 57
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2008, 03:48:18 pm »
Just to be clear de Carlo, no one would have ever said anything if you had just been satisfied with being "a white musician who plays Native American inspired flute music".  There are plenty of those around, and they don't end up on sites like this, "under the microscope".  It is your own lies and exaggerations that have brought you under scrutiny, and trust me, jealousy doesn't even come into the picture.  Why did you start with the exaggerations (being a Nammy nominee or Grammy winner), or the lies, (being a member of the Kiowa nation) in the first place?  Did you feel that you music wouldn't stand on it's own, so you needed something to give you more credibility?  People everywhere love music... and all kinds of music.  If it's good, people will listen, no matter who or what you are.

« Last Edit: November 05, 2008, 06:46:23 pm by MatoSiWin »

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 440
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2008, 01:40:40 pm »
He's got a new update on his site.  He's pretty out there.  He admits to sockpuppeting the board and also admits he's not Kiowa in several paragraphs, but then goes on to show a bunch of pictures and claim that those pictures prove he is who he says he is.  Except he has two names....Giovanni and then his "stage name" Tom.  He also admits that all his regalia is "stage clothing".  Talks about himself in the third person as "The Flute Keeper".

We're definitely not dealing with someone who understands reality.  I think he's got too many years "on stage" and thinks his stage persona is who he really is. 

Sorry Giovanni, you are a fraud.  You can't claim to be Kiowa and try to use it as a selling point to make your music appear authentic.  It's a fraudulent claim.  You even admit to it being a fraudulent claim.  As long as you're claiming to be Kiowa to sell your version of flute music then you'll remain here.  It's that simple.


Offline Ingeborg

  • Friends
  • *
  • Posts: 835
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2008, 12:52:47 pm »
The update-page has been updated once again.

De Carlo in fact reinforces his claim to be Kiowa (cf phrases like 'us Indians' etc), despite his own words he just wears stage clothes. He denigrates his critics as drawing welfare and wanabis, but there's more unsavoury language in his text.

He also seems to continue his MOD of writing in foul language and of harassing forum owners where he finds e.g. INAFA material published. There is at least one German forum where they closed and deleted a thread repeating the INAFA material in excerpts.

At the start page ( ) he puts up an ad saying he will be on TV Dec 27, 2008,  with a trailer. I watched part of it. De Carlo will show up in a children's programme in a show running on a private channel (RTL TV/RTL2/Super-RTL), together with some dancers. In the trailer, de Carlo does not play the flute but holds it in his hand doing some dance steps. The children are expected to do a quiz and answer the question whether the sounds made by the dancers are a) sounds of pain, b) animal sounds, or c) baby's crying. For all answers, they use comic figures for illustration - and of course it's an ndn for answers a) and b) ---- your stereotypical figures of an ndn child in plains outfit, huge nose, buckteeth. For answer a), the ndn child clutches his foot in pain, for answer b) the ndn displays two feathers at his butt and is imitating a bird's beak with one hand in front of his mouth.

The trailer starts with a group of 4 persons queueing up at the stage entry (de Carlo, a woman of some ndn ancestry, two white persons in regalia) in a line and entering the stage dancing, doing some 'heya, heya' sounds; the drums are playback. De Carlo is wearing his 'stage clothes' and a roach, but as far as I could see, they did *not* allow him to wear his usual bandana to cover up his bald head (cough, cough).

As an aside, de Carlo must have added the words 'TV Germany' at the bottom of the trailer - however, there is no 'TV Germany' in the first place. The show '1,2, 3' is produced by RTL company; 'RTL' being the abbreviation for 'Radio Television Luxembourg'.

Offline Emmia

  • Posts: 21
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 07:16:24 pm »
Hello to everyone and thanks for all your responses!
I am so sorry that I haven't gotten back to you earlier, my computer crashed about a week after I posted the question and it isn't until two weeks ago that I got everything back in order again.

Just a note before I start rambling: when I mention Native below I talk about Native American/First Nation's people/American Indian, i.e. Aboriginal people of the US and Canada.

Mr de Carlo is booked for a couple of performances in Sweden end of February. I emailed some of the information I found in your replies and on other sites to the organizers and they are quite troubled. To start with they asked me if I wanted to put together some performances with him as well, as a co-operation, which i have definately said No to.

Mr de Carlo called me last year (I distribute native music in Sweden) and asked me if I was interested in distributing his music also. I told him that first I wanted to hear his music so he sent me a demo. I didn't just want to hear his music, I also wanted to check him up a bit (it always troubles me when a person who claims to be Native American or of the First Nations has an accent that is definately not American/Canadian). His music will not be found among the ones that I distribute. The reason for this is that I require some Native blood and that the musician is accepted by his Native community as Native (I learned this from a good friend of mine in Colorado). This requirement makes it a lot easier.

But I want to stress the fact that the reason why I checked Mr de Carlo up is not because I question his skills as a musician, it's because it's important for me that the Native musicians that come to my country to perform are really Native. There are so few Native musicians that come here and i guess we are a very trusting people, so when someone claims to be Native and looks like what Europeans consider Native performers to look like (please don't ask me to develope that further), most of us believe them. There are a few of us that always asks the questions, a few of us who are always considered judgemental and mean by the big group for that.

So, to you Native musicians out there: If you get the question about affiliation etc don't take it as an offense, it's just a try from people who wants that the people who come her to represent Native culture are actually someone who is representative for Native culture and not a fake. Sometimes we get yelled at because we ask the questions and sometimes because we don't ask the questions.

Over here I am known as the one who likes Native music (ok, I admit that there are probably more than one who adds "annoying" in between one and who, but hey, if I have to choose between "being me" and "being liked" i'd definately go with "being me"!). So anything that even resembles Native is brought to my attention. I am quite tired of colleagues coming up to me telling me about the great Native group that they saw downtown on the square. I know exactly which group they are talking about. My question is always "did they play the pan flute as well?" and the response is always YES. They are South American Natives playing their music (well, mostly their own) dressed in what they consider to be North American Native clothing. They have figured out that passing as North American Natives pays off better. Their music is good but their show is bad. I find it depressing that they trust their own skills as musicians so little that they can't be honest with who/what they are.

I also really dislike when people talk to me about Natives as one homogenous group. I use to tell them that you wouldn't expect Swedes and people from North Africa to be alike (the distance of northern Canada and southern Florida is about the same distance). And all of the people of the different nations in between (for example France, Germany, Italy, Greece and Slovakia) don't speak the same language and don't have the same culture. So why should Natives be any different?

Ok, I'm done rambling now.......
And before anyone asks me who the h*ll I think I am saying what I've said, the answer is "just me".

Thanks again for all your replies and have a great weekend!


Offline kosowith

  • Posts: 104
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2009, 08:09:10 pm »
Also, they do not play their music when they are preforming.  They have groups that perform in Sweden, Germany, Netherlands, Belgie, and France - they may be more but those are the ones I know about. All of their albums contain the same 10-12 songs, but with different names and order on the different CDs.

As to the Native Spirits CDs - there was a huge controversy over those a while back. At teh time there was a claim that although they state on the CDs that a certain portion of the proceeds will go to fund Native Programs, not a single cent had ever been received.  From the Native muscian site there were a number of complaints from muscians and producers about ripped off songs, and broken promised.  This was a couple of years ago and I can not say if it was ever cleared up.

Offline Emmia

  • Posts: 21
Re: Tdom Bah Toden Xkee - does anyone know if he's ok or not?
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2009, 08:37:30 pm »
Hello Kosowith,
I wouldn't be surprised if they don't play themselves, whenever I see them in the distance I turn around and go in the opposite direction, so I wouldn't really know. It's a pity because we have some really good South American Native groups here in Sweden that stay true to their culture that they are very proud of.

I have thought about confronting them many times but since they according to Swedish law have the right to "perform" as long as they have a permit whether they are fakes or not, it hasn't seemed like there was a lot to do about it. Next time I see them I will check with the authorities that they do have a permit, could be interesting.

I am not surprised regarding the CD:s you mention. I have to check with the musicians that had songs on Oliver Shanti's cd's if they ever got any license money from those. Not that anyone would want to be mentioned in the same sentence as Oliver Shanti.
Their businesses seem to have a lot in common.