Spirit-Circle.org

[TelGega]

I was with these guys during late Dec 06 to Jan 07 during the chirstmas break. I don't want other to think they are fakes just becasue I do. So I am placeing them here for farther study to see if they are or are not fakes.

http://spirit-circle.org/

Anyone who has any advice or info on how we can find out please let me know.

Thanks

[educatedindian]

On their website they describe themselves as people trying to learn about spirituality as well as teach others what they know. But I'd be very doubtful about the value of at least some of what they teach. If you go to Recommended Reading, they include some of the worst exploiters out there, Ted and Lynn Andrews and Sun Bear and Wabun Wind. I can't speak to the value of the works listed on witchcraft or paganism, a pagan should do that.

They also have classes in meditation and becoming an empath, and book several alleged psychics or mediums. What was it about the group that concerned you? What was your experience like?

[TelGega]

I wasn't sure how much information about myself to give out, but I think it's best I give full details.

At 13 I had strange things happen that I couldn't explain, since then I have spend some times reading and researching paranormal, scientific, and psychological explanations.

Last year of 2006 I came to a forum that talked these things, yet I didn't find any help or new insight.
Charles, or Old Sage as he calls himself, was there and I asked if I could be a member at his site, Spirit-circle.org, so I could learn more.

I was in college and I had a job at Winn-Dixie during that time was there.  It was during the Christmas break of 2006 to 2007. At first things were ok, I asked him question and he told me that the lights and apperitions of animals and people I was seeing were signs that I was ready to advance spiritually.

They, Charles and Joyce who are the owners of the site, told me that I needed to Channel energy from the earth and say I AM THAT I AM. I told them that these things felt wrong on so many levels. Joyce told me that if I didn't do them I'd never know my "True Self???.  I told them both I was eager to learn but I just couldn't do was they told me to. Charles told me that my spirit guides were becoming exasperated with me because I wouldn't do as they said.

On New years, I found myself outside with a small cup of wine and a small piece of Italian bread my granny had made. I drink and ate and said "The Father, The Holy Spirit, The Son and I are one.??? As I drink the wine and ate the bread. I Returned to Charles and Joyce and told them what I had done instead of saying I AM THAT I AM.  They told me it wouldn't work, I had to do it EXESACTLY the way they told me to.

I asked them "Well doesn't it mean the same thing???? Charles then told me that he had no problem doing it, and asked what my problem was.

The Last day I was there was the worst. They were talking about having dragons as spiritual advisors. Charles asked if I wanted one, I was very skeptical of the idea though and I just said "Ok, Sure.???

He told me that the 'Dragons' Told him I wasn't ready, that I needed basic lessons. I told them I was ready to take the class. A minuet later I found the 'sign-up' link. It told me that each lesson was $100 US dollors done through pay-pal.
I thought about it, and I realized that I wouldn't be able to handle a 6a.m. to 4p.m. Job and a 4p.m. to 9p.m. college AND this spiritually class all at once. I told Charles and Joyce I was sorry but I was unable to take that class at that time.

The both of them practically blew up. Charles told me I was just making up an excuse for not having enough time. When I told them It was also I money factor as well, Charles said I was changing my story around.  Joyce jumped in saying that that she though I wanted to see dragons but I didn't want to work for it. That I just wanted it to fall in to my lap. I left.

I still got news letters from time to time though. During November of 2007, Charles sent out a newsletter telling everyone that Joyce of in a finical spot. She had no money for food, bills, her grandson was on a resberater and would die without paying the electrical bill. Her Boyfriend had bone cancer.

Joyce claims that she is a healer and a psychic. So I responded to Charles letter asking if she could heal or grandson and her boyfriend and that might help a little bit. He never responded.

The next news letter that came out, Charles was yelling at all of his members for not sending any money. He called them all wannabes and that they were unspiritual and were selfish basically.

Charles also claims that he has not seen "ONE RED CENT??? since the site opened. Yet they sell things for prices that range from $45 to $300. Charles also says he is a Wiccan but does make many comments about being part Native American and such and that he receive a divine message from the archangel Gaberial to teach the world. 

Here is one Example that Joyce sends out in every newsletter. I don't know if any of these things are a Native American Shaman rituals or anything. Take a look and tell me what your thoughts.

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Thank you and I hope to hear from you today, your wellness is my goal!

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Peace
Joyce

[Defend the Sacred]

I can't speak to the value of the works listed on witchcraft or paganism, a pagan should do that.

Well, I haven't read any of the Pagan and Wiccan books they list, but the authors are mostly as badly thought of as the pseudo-First Nations ones on that page. "Silver Ravenwolf" is pretty much a laughingstock. Ray Buckland is not laughed at quite as much, but has made contradictory claims over the years as to who his teachers were, what his ethnicity is, etc. Some of their claims are obvious fabrications, but apparently their books sell. Opinions of Curott are more varied. I have friends who know her, and who were initiated into Wicca by the same women who initiated Curott. One of my friends likes her a lot and considers her a good friend, the other despises her and thinks she is misrepresenting the tradition. *shrugs* I'm not Wiccan and haven't read the book, so I can't say more about Phyllis than that.

(And these days I'm so disgusted with the level of cultural appropriation in the Pagan communities, I'm even reluctant to admit any connection there. *sigh* But that's a topic for another thread, I guess.)

[Moma_porcupine]

Hi TelGega

I think you were wise to walk the other way. That tactic of claiming to know something and suggesting that any skeptism or lack of support on your part is a weakness or a character flaw sounds very similar to the manipulative disempowering tactics used by a lot of cult leaders.

Even without the sensational and uh ... "unusual" claims of being able to put you in touch with spiritual advisors that are dragons for $100 a lesson, there is lots of warning signs that would make me feel these people are not the place to look for support or answers.

I've also had things happen I can't explain. When I got too focused on finding people who could explain these things, no one really could and on a few occaisions I made the mistake of putting myself in the hands of dishonest and exploitive people looking to take advantage of peoples confusion. 

Although Native Elders have a lot of practical wisdom and can be really inspirational in their strong moral example, I haven't found Elders can usually answer these questions either, unless it has to do with their own specific culture and you come from this background.

It seems answers come in their own time- or they don't- One thing I've come to accept and even appreciate is, it's kind of nice not knowing everything. Maybe mysterious things happen just to keep us humble, and remind us there is things we don't know.

Personally I find being a bit mystified is a lot nicer than being taken advantage of by some power hungry con artist . Unfortuanantly there is lots of them out there. Hopefully this website will help you avoid some of them.

[TelGega]

Hi TelGega

I think you were wise to walk the other way. That tactic of claiming to know something and suggesting that any skeptism or lack of support on your part is a weakness or a character flaw sounds very similar to the manipulative disempowering tactics used by a lot of cult leaders.

Thanks for your words.

I don't think that a person has to know what I go through to understand. My wife is very skeptical of what I tell her and I'm fine with that, because even though she doesn't believe in spirits or anything she still believes in me.  Still is it nice to have know others have been there and understand.