Author Topic: "Robert Morning Sky"  (Read 14197 times)

Offline educatedindian

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"Robert Morning Sky"
« on: January 29, 2005, 01:11:12 AM »
-----
Here's an admission of his that he made things up, and an ironic
complaint that others were hoaxing the public.

http://www.nhne.com/newsbriefs/nhnenb42.html
"I am nobody. I am not a shaman, a medicine man, a guru, a channeler,
or a psychic. I am not an ex-intelligence officer from the CIA, the
NSA, the secret services or any other branch of any service. I am not
the reincarnation of an ancient being, an ancient deity or a heavenly
visitor. I have nothing to offer you in the way of credibility. I am
a nobody... and I like it that way."
---Robert Morning Sky, introducing himself in an article called, "The
Blue Star Hoax" that appeared in LEADING EDGE #95. Among other
things, Morning Sky, a Hopi, claimed that the fabled "Blue Star" does
not exist in Hopi legends, teachings or mythology. It was a term that
he invented in the early 1970's that has since been pirated by
researchers who falsely claimed to have spent time with Hopi Elders
learning the secrets of the Blue Star Kachina (a kachina that Morning
Sky says doesn't exist), and channelers, psychics and clairvoyants
who claim to have received Blue Star revelations from their spiritual
sources.
------

Here's some more writings of his. The guy relies on Mercea Eliade for
his beliefs.
http://members.tripod.com/pagan_relief/native_american.htm

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And here's an interesting site, someone doing for UFO claims much
like what we do for Nuage claims. Some familiar frauds listed there.
*You can nominate candidates* for Dirtbag of the Month.
http://www.sonic.net/~west/galaxy.htm

Offline educatedindian

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Re: "Robert Morning Sky"
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2005, 01:14:33 AM »
educatedindian"
Date: Fri, 06 Jun 2003 22:37:30 -0000
Subject: [nafps_again] Robert Morning Sky, Karen Degenhart, Galaxy's Most Wanted

I can't speak for every band, but I've never heard of anything even remotely similar to the stories of Greys, Greens, lizards out to control mankind, etc, among Mescaleros and Lipans. And "Morning Sky"
is no Apache name. Doesn't sound anything like any Hopi name I've ever heard either.
Some of the other references in his works, Knights Templar, Holy Grail, Illuminati, and the Bilderbergers. This is so obviously just
plain old secular Anglo-American conspiracy theory. Someone would really have to know absolutely nothing about NDNs (or Christian mythology) to believe any of this is authentic.

His claim about an Apache grandfather, that "nickname" doesn't sound right to me, though I'm sure not a fluent speaker. That supposed
regalia sure doesn't look right either. Trust me, Apaches and Hopis sure don't wear huge bulky fur capes and boots!
http://www.newtimes.org/issue/9601/morning.html

This version of his supposed Hopi beliefs sounds like very badly written pop psychology mixed with more conspiracy theory. And come on, he quotes Castaneda and talks about Ten Commandments.
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/hopigrey.html

Old Bob sells vision quests and has a very goofy Anglo woman who calls herself Thunder Stone Dream Woman as a follower.
http://kronosconcrete.com/ThunderbirdEnterprises/coyote.htm

Works with some other famous frauds like Arguello and "Oshinnah Fastwolf".
http://www.swcp.com/~eltiki/homie_page/articles/prophets.html

And with frauds Franzone, Hunbatz Men, and "Fastwolf" again.
http://www.ufomind.com/misc/1997/sep/d08-004.shtml

Found this message. Do you know this Duran?
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ufonet/message/10485
From:  "TimeStar" <timestar@t...>
Date:  Tue Oct 2, 2001  12:01 am
Subject:  Re: [UFOnet] Orion Queens & Sirian Wolves vs Earth
Robert Morning Sky has claimed to be half Hopi on numerous occasions.
The Hopi have never heard of him and deny his UFO story. I checked out Morning Sky through The Hopi are a small, closely knit tribe and would know either Robert Morning Sky or his grandfather. I checked out Morning Sky through personal contacts. Morning Sky has refused to reveal the name of his grandfather.

One of the best parts of Morning Sky's story is in an early version of his first manuscript that I purchased in 1994-95. In conclusion of his manuscript, Morning Sky asserted that if his theory was correct that there will be an increase in sightings of flying pigs. This assertion is so mind bogling that it is hard to take seriously, and it's never been clear whether Morning Sky was deliberately hoaxing in the beginning of was just nuts.

Morning Sky was a professional pow wow dancer, which is equivalent to a professional dancer who regularly competes, and has no bearing on
the sacred. Pow wows are social rather than sacred events.

Regards,
Krsanna Duran

-----
And it seems even UFO researchers find his claims hard to swallow.

http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/autopsy_news.html
Moscow based linguistics professor / retired, Boris Chourinov, has come out against the suggested translations of the Alien Autopsy: Debris Hieroglyphs. Chourinov came to the Italian UFO Conference to show Russian radar evidence of some strange lights following commercial aircraft and then speeding off. Away from the podium, Chourinov stated strongly that the translations that Hopi Indian and Human Legacy researcher, Robert Morning Sky and UFO researcher Michael Hesemann have come up with are way off base and have no foundation in the reality of linguistics. I'll have an up date on this very shortly.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: "Robert Morning Sky"
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2005, 10:55:53 PM »
educatedindian"
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 20:21:24 -0000
Subject: [nafps_again] Warning on Robert Morning Sky

Trish, add this to the website when you can. Dawn, our friends in Europe, or anyone else who cares to, feel free to pass this along.
-----

FRAUD ALERT: ROBERT "MORNING SKY"
KAREN DEGENHEART AKA "THUNDER STONE DREAM WOMAN"

     Since the 1970s, a man calling himself Robert "Morning Sky" has posed as Hopi and Apache and made his living off of the fringes of the UFO movement. Morning Sky claims Hopi beliefs and prophecies support his belief in a vast cosmic conspiracy of lizard-like aliens who control mankind's destiny. He claims a vast government conspiracy is out to get him, and portrays himself as a brave soul carrying an important message persecuted by dark forces who drove him out of academia.
In fact, Morning Sky's ludicrous and goofy beliefs do not have the slightest proof. Morning Sky has a long history of lying and working with numerous other charlatans and spiritual exploiters. Even his
very identity is open to question.

The truth:
1) Morning Sky is NOT Hopi.
"Robert Morning Sky has claimed to be half Hopi on numerous occasions. The Hopi have never heard of him and deny his UFO story. I checked out Morning Sky through personal contacts. The Hopi are a
small, closely knit tribe and would know either Robert Morning Sky or his grandfather. Morning Sky has refused to reveal the name of his
grandfather."
-Krisanna Duran

"Morning Sky" is also NOTHING like ACTUAL Hopi names. Actual Hopis use their traditional indigenous last names. "Morning Sky" is
clearly a New Age imitation of PLAINS Indian names.

2) Morning Sky is likely NOT Apache. He has consistently refused to name which of the Apache bands he is supposedly from. He has also
consistently refused to name who his alleged Apache grandfather is.
REAL Apaches do not identify as simply Apache but will also name which band or reservation they are or are from.
"Morning Sky" is NOT an Apache name either. Most Apaches have Hispanic names. The most famous example is Geronimo, named after a Catholic saint. Among themselves, many Apaches will use their own indigenous names such as Geronimo's real name, Goyathlay. Other Apaches have Anglo last names such as Jones.

Morning Sky does such a poor impersonation of an Indian that he could not even get the regalia right when he danced at powwows. Photos showed him dressed in huge bulky fur capes and fur boots, looking more like Liberace than anyone else.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: "Robert Morning Sky"
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2005, 10:57:18 PM »
Pt 2:
3) Most of what Morning Sky claims are Hopi beliefs and prophecies obviously have NOTHING to do with Native people AT ALL. They are from CHRISTIAN or EUROPEAN lore. The Knights Templar and the Holy Grail stories come from ENGLAND.  Conspiracy theories about the Illuminati and the Bilderbergers are obviously ANGLO-AMERICAN and SECULAR in origin.
Morning Sky also relies on discredited frauds like Carlos Castaneda. Someone would really have to know absolutely nothing about American Indians (or Christian mythology) to believe any of this has anything to do with Hopis or Apaches.

4) Morning Sky works with a long list of OTHER notorious frauds and
spiritual exploiters such as:
"Oshinnah Fastwolf"- a Scottish woman who poses as Chiricahua Apache.
Robert Franzone AKA "Ghostwolf" an Italian-American from New Jersey who has at various times posed as Lakota, Iroquois, or Metis,
one of the worst exploiters around with a history of violence against women and several convictions for fraud.
"Hunbatz Men" an Anglo-American who passes off Buddhist beliefs as Mayan.

5) The Hopi Nation says NO ONE who claims to represent or teach about their beliefs off reservation is legitimate:
"Over the years many individuals, both Hopi and non-Hopi, have purposely DISTORTED and EXPLOITED Hopi spirituality and the Hopi way
of life to suit their OWN ends. The reasons for this
misrepresentation vary as much as the people who engage in it. The most common motives, however, are NOTORIETY, PROFIT, or political manipulation. Irrespective of the intent, it all results in an
unwanted INTRUSION by outsiders on the Hopi way of life.
Many, and perhaps most, Hopi people believe that religion is a PRIVATE matter and that there is already too much information available to non-Hopis about Hopi spirituality. A great deal of
knowledge that may have been shared with guests as a courtesy or as privileged information, even in moments of undeserved trust, has been
published. These published accounts, be they accurate or misleading, have been MISUSED to replicate Hopi ceremonies and spirituality for
profit. In many cases, information has been ALTERED in a way that ignores any spiritual context and religious significance.
BEWARE of ANY INDIVIDUAL or organization USING THE HOPI NAME to promote spiritual workshops, seminars or other "religious" activities. It is NOT a Hopi value to try and convert non-Hopi people
to Hopi religious beliefs or ways. And, sharing religious knowledge for profit is UNACCEPTABLE to most Hopi people.
Hopi religion is so complex that it is IMPOSSIBLE for any one Hopi, traditional group or political faction within Hopi, to know it entirely. Hopi culture and religion as a whole is multifaceted, but there are also variations from village to village, and much of the Hopi ceremonial cycle is secret even among the Hopi. Specific clans and societies are responsible for different aspects of the ceremonial cycle, which in its entirety, make a complimentary whole.

BEWARE, then, of any one person professing to be a traditional spokesperson for the Hopi or even a "traditional" Hopi. No one person can possibly speak for all Hopi people. Some who profess to do
so do NOT practice the beliefs of Hopi religion or participate in its priesthoods."
http://www.hopi.nsn.us/Pages/Culture/misrep.html.Emphases were added.

6) Morning Sky also conducts vision quests (which are NOT a Hopi ceremony) and has a very goofy Anglo woman, Karen Degenhart AKA "Thunder Stone Dream Woman" as a follower. Degenhart herself sells "shamanic services."

7) Morning Sky's claims that there are Hopi hieroglyphics on alien autopsy sites are FRAUDULENT:
"Linguistics professor/retired, Boris Chourinov, has stated strongly that the translations that Robert Morning Sky [did] are way off base and have no foundation in the reality of linguistics."
http://www.beyondroswell.com/roswell/autopsy_news.html

8) In a rare unguarded moment, Morning Sky HIMSELF admits to having made up some of his claims, and that he has no authority to claim
what he does:  
"I am not a shaman, a medicine man, a guru... I have nothing to offer you in the way of credibility. I am a nobody."
-Robert Morning Sky, introducing himself in an article called, "The Blue Star Hoax" that appeared in LEADING EDGE #95. Among other things, Morning Sky...claimed that the fabled "Blue Star" does not exist in Hopi legends, teachings or mythology. It was a term that he invented in the early 1970's that has since been pirated by
researchers who falsely claimed to have spent time with Hopi Elders learning the secrets of the Blue Star Kachina (a kachina that Morning Sky says doesn't exist), and channelers, psychics and clairvoyants who claim to have received Blue Star revelations from their spiritual sources."
-http://www.nhne.com/newsbriefs/nhnenb42.html

What You Can Do:
1) AVOID Morning Sky and do not pay to hear him speak at the UFO and New Age events he frequents. Complain to the sponsors or organizers
if he is included.
2) If you still choose to go to these events, CHALLENGE his long history of lies. UFO believers often complain the rest of the public will not take them seriously. People like Morning Sky are one of the reasons!
3) Report his activities to Native activist groups such as AIM, NAFPS, Red Road Collective. Also report what he does to the Hopi Nation.
4) PASS ON what you have learned here to anyone who believes Morning Sky is legit.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: "Robert Morning Sky"
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2005, 11:14:22 PM »
misternick03" <m9522301@qub.ac.uk>  
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 2003 23:44:34 -0000
Subject: [nafps_again] Re: Question about "Blue Star"

--- In nafps_again@yahoogroups.com, haidadawn <no_reply@y...> wrote:
> --- In nafps_again@yahoogroups.com, educatedindian <no_reply@y...>
> wrote:Read the warning on Morning Sky. He admitted the whole "Blue Star Kachina" and the alleged prophecies around it are a hoax.
> ~~~~~~
> actually the post reads: "Among other things, Morning Sky...claimed that the fabled "Blue Star" does not exist in Hopi legends, teachings or mythology. It was a term that he invented in the early 1970's that has since been pirated by researchers who falsely claimed to have spent time with Hopi Elders learning the secrets of the Blue Star Kachina (a kachina that Morning Sky says doesn't exist)"    
>
> so, he "claimed" that he made it up....but did not "admit"...there is a difference...as far as I know the Hopi legend itself is actually legitimate.?????

Sorry to bust that bubble, No such Blue Star prophecy exists in reality. It is an actual Katsina that appears amongst the 4-500 or so Katsinam at Hopi, but has been endowed with an almost mythical element of prophetic visions by non-Hopis. These prophecies are widespread, and the only person who has admitted to believing them was a guy in Sedona, no surprise there then. I haven't been able to trace the first mention of this Katsina in prophetic circles, but some say it might have started with Frank Waters' "Book of the Hopi" -
which is a problematic book in and of itself.

The whole 2012 stuff stems from Jose Arguilles I think, and was incorporated by certain inventors of Hopi tradition in the early '90's. The Mayan calendar is not generally followed by Hopi
society leaders, as far as I know, they tend to prefer their own! :)
Other stories regarding the blue-star Katsina that are circulating interpret it as a sign of, or as representing a blue-tailed comet, which is due to crash to earth imminently, and therefore all but
the 'pure of heart' will be destroyed instantly.

Hopi prophecy is a complex area of investigation, and if you are interested, I recommend Armin Geertz's "The Invention of Prophecy", as well as much of Richard Clemmer's work for an insight into the social and political background to the 'Traditionalist' rhetoric that spawned the outside interest in this stuff.