Author Topic: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools  (Read 23652 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« on: June 05, 2007, 01:53:14 pm »
Been needing a thread on this.

Turns out that Nora Brinker, who I know from her posts exposing David Yeagley, attended a Waldorf School herself and so knows firsthand what they teach. She just recently left this comment at my site after someone defended Steiner as not being racist.

-----

The_Editrix has left a new comment on your post ""Heil Mein Fuhrer": Yeagley's Delusions of Himself...":

I attended a Rudolf Steiner school in Germany from second class to "Abitur" (university entrance exams). What you are saying is preposterous.

A quote from the mother of a former Waldorf pupil (2000):

"In my opinion the children are clearly exposed to racist thought. It's subtle and done in such a way that the parents don't necessarily notice right away. We didn't notice either, because I never looked at their school materials that closely, because the children never got much homework. They I finally did look at the materials and I was really shocked."

"Recent fifth-grade history workbooks from different Waldorf schools. We discover teaching about human development unknown in the history lessons of public schools. The Aryans, Waldorf curriculum declares, left the sinking continent of Atlantic to found many high cultures. Terms like "Aryan," "sacrificial fire" (Opferfeuer) and "Aryan wanderings" are used without comment."

"Outside observers may see only the teaching of a little-known myth. Experts see it differently. The contents of the workbooks show, they say, that the children are being taught mythology as historical fact and that a development theory placing special emphasis on Aryans is pedagogically untenable."

Although this woman's child has probably attended a Steiner school decades after I left, and a different school as well, it describes what I experienced to a "T".

Chance?

A few quotes from The Master Himself?

Steiner taught that there was a hierarchy of racial virtue with Negroid peoples and Jews at the bottom and blue-eyed, blonde "Aryans" at the top. He even saw a direct correlation between blonde hair and intelligence.

"You see, when we really study science and history, we must conclude that if people become increasingly strong, they will also become increasingly stupid. If the blonds and blue-eyed people die out, the human race will become increasingly dense if men do not arrive at a form of intelligence that is independent of blondness. Blond hair actually bestows intelligence. It is indeed true that the more the fair individuals die out the more will the instinctive wisdom of humans vanish." [1922]

"We are within the great Root Race of humanity, which has peopled the earth, since the land on which we now live rose up out of the inundations of the ocean. Ever since the Atlantean Race began slowly to disappear, the great Aryan Race has been the dominant one on earth. If we contemplate ourselves, we here in Europe are thus the fifth Sub-Race of the great Aryan Root Race. The first Sub-Race lived in the distant past in Ancient India" [1905]

Steiner taught that the Black/Negroid races were "children" and incapable of development beyond a relatively primitive level, that Asians were "adolescent" and mainly capable of imitation, but lacked the true creativity of the European race, that blonde, blue-eyed Europeans were the "adult" race, the ultimate in intelligence and creative power. He also taught that the American Indian was "degenerate" and stood for decay and old age of mankind. He saw Indians as a race representing the ancient past and having become weak. He also taught that American Indians had once been Negroes whose colour has faded to coppery red.

"[W]e are not justified in thinking that human beings were originally like the savages of today. The savages have developed into what they now are--with their superstitions, their magical practices and their unclean appearance--from states originally more perfect. The only superiority we have over them is that, while starting from the same conditions, we did not degenerate as they did. I might therefore say: The evolution of man has taken two paths. It is not true that the savages of today represent the original condition of mankind. Mankind, though to begin with it looked more animal-like, was highly civilized. ... Just as the present savages have fallen from the level of the human beings of primeval times, so the apes are beings who have fallen still lower." (Steiner, 1924, EEM p. 126)

"When Negroes go to the west, they cannot absorb as much light and heat any more as they were used to in their Africa. (...) That is why they turn copper red, they become Indians. That is because they are forced to reflect a part of the light and heat. They turn shiny copper red. They cannot keep up this copper red shining. That is why the Indians die out in the West, they die because of their own nature which does not get enough light and heat, they die because of the earthly factor.(...)"

'Indians died because of their own nature.."

Old stuff?

In 1985, one of Steiner's acolytes, the Dutch Frank Wijnbergh, made the following statements at two lectures under the auspices of the Anthroposophical Study Center.

"And you may see that the Indian race started to behave in a very definite way. I mean, they acquiesced. Then, the white race is unfriendly enough to speed up this process by exterminating them. This is something which occurs again and again in history. At the moment when an impulse is not strong enough any more, and out of place, then there will always be other nations and influences to finish them off (...) That is a law!

Not all human beings who are living today are on the same level of the development of humanity. Besides the nations, who are on a high cultural level, there are primitive people who have lagged far behind culturally. (....) let us name as an example those nations who became known when America was discovered. (...)

We have found the American race as a primitive primordial people, which has remained far, far behind. They lag behind in religious views as well. (...) However, the Europeans have risen to a higher cultural level, while the Indians have remained static, and therefore they have become decadent."

Quotes and further material can be found here  http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/waldorf_salad.html or here http://www.waldorfcritics.org/ if that didn't suffice.

frederica

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2007, 06:48:49 pm »
Sounds like pure Eugenics to me. Considering people have been down that road before, wonder why they would consider it again. Nothing Yeagley does suprises me. frederica

Offline KrazyKraut

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2010, 02:18:32 pm »
Sorry to dig out such an old thread, but this is just too tempting.

We have lots of stuff about Steiner, esp. a lot of quotes. You can find the racist stuff neatly translated at the sites you gave, but this distracts from the fact that Steiner was outright nuts. Here is my favourite quote:
  "Was ist die Hirnmasse? Die Hirnmasse ist einfach zu Ende geführte Darmmasse. Verfrühte Gehirnabscheidung geht durch den Darm. Der Darminhalt ist seinen Prozessen nach durchaus verwandt dem Hirninhalt. Wenn ich grotesk rede, würde ich sagen, ein fortgeschrittener Dunghaufen ist das im Gehirn sich Ausbreitende; aber es ist sachlich durchaus richtig. Der Dung ist es, der durch den eigenen organischen Prozess in die Edelmasse des Gehirns umgesetzt wird und da zur Grundlage für die Ich-Entwickelung wird"

translated: "What is the brain? The brain is fecal matter brought to an end. Premature brain deposit goes through the bowels. The bowel content is in its processes in deed related to the brain. Speaking grotesquely, I would say an advanced heap of dung is what spreads in the brain; but as a matter of fact it is correct. The dung is what is converted by an organic process to the noble matter of the brain, where it is the basis for the Self-development"

If you tell me Steiner is relevant outside of germany, I'll translate our articles about him. There are much more gems like the quote above, eg where he claims eating potatoes makes you stupid etc.

PS: Beuys is a famous anthroposoph :-)

Offline KrazyKraut

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2010, 02:33:14 pm »
Oh yes, I forgot. The "nice" image I attached is a picture drawn by Steiner in one of his lectures. As you can see, it places Natives between Apes and Europeans. He was a racist as you can be.

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2010, 05:16:02 pm »
If you tell me Steiner is relevant outside of germany, I'll translate our articles about him. There are much more gems like the quote above, eg where he claims eating potatoes makes you stupid etc.

I think there is a relevance - for e.g. a Lakota Waldorf School has been founded at Pine Ridge, although they seem to have just the kindergarden set up and are/were planning to open a first grade in 2010. With these racist ideas as a background, I am somewhat hesitant to call it a good idea to have ndn children in a Waldorf school. Teaching ndn children they were of an inferior race has had a long tradition at schools, and it is a tradition we should get rid off instead of enforcing it.


Offline Juliet

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2010, 01:10:55 am »
Native Americans don't have enough crap to deal with, let's toss a racist Waldorf school onto the rez.

Sheesh.

And disturbing.

Now, as for Steiner's nonsense about the brain: puts a whole new meaning onto a certain insult, doesn't it?

(Here's a paper for psychology majors: does slang influence manifestations of mental illness?)

Offline The Editrix

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2010, 12:15:18 am »
I came across this thread by chance. I am the German Al quoted in his initial post. I'd like to add some thoughts and information. First one remark re eugenics. Eugenics are unethically applied science, Steiner is no eugenicist, no misled scientist. He is, as my compatriot pointed out so brilliantly, a complete nutcase. There is a reason for the success of the schools he founded in Germany, namely the eternal German scourge, the obsession with idealism and mysticism. However, there is no reason whatsoever why Americans ought to embrace them.

Let me tell you what bothers me most about those schools and that's not even its racism. It's the utter coldness and detachment with which children are seen there. If they fail or misbehave it is ALWAYS, INVARIABLY their own fault because they have bad karma. The same applies to physically and mentally handicapped children -- WHO ARE TOLD SO. No feeling, loving parents ought to let those people near their children. A lot of former students end up in psychotherapy, and it usually takes a long way to even begin to search for help because one is so utterly brainwashed into believing that it was one's own fault that one didn't do well at that wonderful school.

In Germany, those schools are considered sectarian/cultist by the sect commissioner of the Protestant Church.(Notabene that in Germany "sect" is often used where Americans would use "cult".) Tell your people the truth about them.

KK: "Beuys is a famous anthroposoph :-)" -- So was Renate Riemeck, Ulrike Meinhof's mother's life partner and later the daughter's guardian.

Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2010, 01:28:05 pm »

Offline Alfred

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 08:14:25 pm »
Waldorf schools have always been critisised for having racial filosophy, but this is not the only thing being tought.
Mind U guys that many aspects, personal support and developement of a child kontra groups being only one example, is now broadly used in public schools. Living in early 20 century, with overall racial issues in all parts of society has of course "coloured" the anthroposophy also.

I agree to the critisism about their thoughtless ideas regarding races, in the way discribed. But many other aspects, fruits of this schools way of learning have contributed greatly to modern education.

Just a thought....and some experience in lower grades of Waldorf school.

Another question that might be right on this page. How about the public schools and their way of learning. Degree of lack of horison, regarding humans as robotic thinkers is a way larger problem for the western world then Waldorf schools.
I should in that regard maybe claim fraud against modern schools in general.

Offline KrazyKraut

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2011, 01:43:37 pm »
The problem with Waldorf educations is, you dont know what you get. Waldorf is a loose organization with a broad range of people. They can be nutty die-hard Steiner followers or just very caring parents. There are no strict rules, no standards for the teachers. Education for teachers is a joke. If you are lucky, you will get teachers that really care for your child. If you are not lucky, you get teachers that really care for Steiner. Things get especially nasty if you are not 'one of the boys'. They dislike outsiders and they will bite you out of the pride. This has happened eg to Andreas Molau, a former waldorf teacher in germany. Molau was also active in the NPD, a german Nazi-party. Nobody had any problem with that, until it became public. When it became public, they not only kicked him from the school, but for good measure his kids, too. Makes sense, right? Similar things happen if your kid does not fit in the community, e.g. because of ADHS or the like.

Offline ska

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2011, 02:22:20 pm »
Thanks for your information, Editrix.  I appreciate what you and Krazy Kraut have shared.  I want to clarify something in your comment where you say that when children fail  at Waldorf it is "INVARIABLY their own fault because they have bad karma". 

There is no such thing as "good karma" or "bad karma".  The Western usage of the term "karma" is  disconnected from its Hindi and Hindu roots, again a result of mistranslations, misappropriations, misunderstandings and manipulations (I'm borrowing these four m's from my husband, who regularly uses these to describe the abuse of his people's lifeways).

I am not criticizing you, Editrix, I thank you for making the comment, thereby allowing me to provide a clarification.  If someone wants to learn the meaning of karma, I would recommend growing up in an Indian family (ie. from India), or becoming part of an Indian community.  About 12-50 years of immersion in the culture might yield some understanding.

Krazy Kraut, Steiner's legacy continues to rear its ugly head throughout USA/Canada.  The Waldorf approach is widely promoted in secular homeschooling/unschooling communities.  Many people who consider themselves "progressive" turn to Waldorf, thinking that their philosophy honors self-directed learning and freedom for children.

Ingeborg, could you please tell us any more about the Waldorf School at Pine Ridge (not sure if you mean the town or somewhere else on the rez).  I'd like to find out more and follow up with friends/inlaws there.

Thanks, ska

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2011, 06:47:02 pm »
Ingeborg, could you please tell us any more about the Waldorf School at Pine Ridge (not sure if you mean the town or somewhere else on the rez).  I'd like to find out more and follow up with friends/inlaws there.


This is the site of the school:

http://www.lakotawaldorfschool.org/lws/index-en.html



There are also sites in Germany and Switzerland. Reading these, the founding history of that school sounds slightly different, so I'll translate the respective paragrahphs:

http://www.lakotawaldorfschool.de/ueber-uns.html

„How it all began

During an informational event at Hibernia School in [the town of] Herne, Monika Keidel learned of a Waldorf kindergarten at the Pine Ridge Reservation, South Dakota, USA and plans to add a school to this project.

Lakota had found to Waldorf pegagogy, as it has many things in common with their former way of life. As the American people take little interest in native peoples and their thought, the Lakota turned to European countries in order to receive financial support.

Students of grade 13 of Hibernia School and their teacher, through a rally for donations, received the money needed for the building and in May 1999 erected the first building with the support of a Dutch architect.
Monika Keidel, at that time working in the Hibernia Kindergarten, accompanied the group to the USA.
The living conditions of the Lakota shocked her very much.
When due to a lack of donations school and kindergarten were in danger of having to close years later, she founded the support association with several other Waldorf parents in 2004:

Friends of the Lakota Waldorf School e.V.

Since then, the support association gives support to the Lakota Waldorf School since it offers a new possibility to preserve the culture and the way of thinking of the Lakota and to restore lost values.

President: Monika Keidel
Vice-president: Hansa Czypionka
Treasurer: Margarete Rickard
Secretary: Illa Meyer“


This is from the Swiss site 'about us' section:


http://www.lakotastiftung.ch/


„Traveling to the Pine Ridge Reservation in 1989, Swiss citizen Isabel decided to stay there. She married the Lakota Indian Bob Stadnick. During the following 8 years, until Bob's death, they engaged for a better education of the Lakota children in founding and establishing the Lakota-Waldorf-School with other Lakota parents.
In 1997, Isabel returned to Switzerland with her three children and continued to advocate the school. In autumn 2007, the thought of establishing a foundation came into being, in order to do a more professional and more effective fundraising. A dedicated team works to enable better chances for the Lakota children.

The Plains fascinated Isabel. In 2008, Isabel again settled down at the Pine-Ridge-Reservation with her children. For the Lakota Foundation, this direct access to the reservation is worth much [in fact they use the German language idiom: 'It's worth gold'.]. Isabel can minister the development of the Lakota-Waldorf-School at close range and keep an eye on the general situation at the reservation.“


This is how the Swiss site describes how the school got started:
http://www.lakotastiftung.ch/projekte/hintergrund.php

„A path to the Lakota-Waldorf-School

Due to bad perspectives for the future of youths, a group of concerned Lakota parents started an iniative in 1992. Meeting on a regular basis, they soon came to the decision to found a Lakota-School.

The basis of Lakota culture are the four virtues: generosity, courage, respect, and wisdom. These were to be the basis of the Lakota-Waldorf-School. After different models for the school had been discussed, the Lakota came across the Waldorf pedagogy. In it, they found parallels to their own cultures, like the holistic view of man, the unity between nature and man and the meaning of story-telling.

In 1993, the Wolakota Waldorf School was founded and registered as a non-profit organisation. In order to be able to act in accordance with Lakota culture, it must be independent from the state and finances therefore have to be raised from another source. As only few parents can contribute financially, they started to look for other ways of funding. Fundraising tours were started, and in 1994, a patch of land was bought. A kindergarten and a building with one classroom was built. The kindergarten opened up in 1994. In autum 2000, the first grade followed. Due to financial reasons, the school board took the decision to close down school and kindergarten for the time being in 2003. The kindergarten reopened in September 2007.“


Isabel Stadnick also recently wrote a book on her experience at Pine Ridge and did several promotion tours during which she got passed around as the founder of the school at Pine Ridge.


I would like to add that children at Waldorf schools will be subjected to a pressure to adjust which can be enormous. Waldorf pedagogy for example does not tolerate left-handed children, so they will be 're-trained' mercilessly - something which state schools have stopped several decades ago.

Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 01:11:56 am »
*sighs* really?! Damn. Where is the true living school?

Offline Leonard

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 02:51:50 am »
Just want to thank you all for opening my eyes about the Waldorf Schools and Steiner.

Offline SouthwestSkeptic

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Re: Rudolf Steiner, Anthroposophy, and Waldorf Schools
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2012, 01:55:43 am »
Waldorf charter schools are getting very popular in Tucson. They come to every peace fair and Occupy gathering with very slick literature and they're outright creepy!  It's important to open people's eyes to what, in my opinion, is a destructive cult.  They try to hook people in by pretending to be in allignment with whatever their political beliefs are and then they start in with the Steiner ideology. Beware of this group, they are slick and deceptive. >:(
I'm not a bird, I'm not a plane, I'm super NDN skeptic -
Debunking non-NDN bunk, one nut at a time!