Author Topic: Carlos Castaneda  (Read 104547 times)

Offline custodian

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Carlos Castaneda
« on: April 09, 2007, 04:03:16 am »

I would like to examine whatever data, evidence and opinions that might exist here among the NAFPS patrons and records regarding the writings of Carlos Castaneda and the teachings of Juan Matus.

If there is exsiting materials, please direct me to it.


Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2007, 04:43:05 am »
You can tryn the search feature and come up with some stuff that people have posted on Castaneda. As for me, I read his first book and gagged. I thought it ws the phoniest thing I ever read. Apparently UCLA agreed with me since they yanked his PHD because they belive it was all a fabrication.

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2007, 03:17:40 pm »
You can tryn the search feature and come up with some stuff that people have posted on Castaneda. As for me, I read his first book and gagged. I thought it ws the phoniest thing I ever read. Apparently UCLA agreed with me since they yanked his PHD because they belive it was all a fabrication.

Thank you for your reply Debbie Red Bear.

I am unaware the authorities at UCLA decided the writings of Carlos Castaneda were fabrications.

I am also unaware they reclaimed or revoked the PHD they previously granted to Castaneda.

For the sake of integrity and honesty, please offer up whatever supporting materials you have regarding these claims by you.

In the mean time, I will be contacting the authorities at UCLA to have them either confirm or clarify your claims here.

I will publish the response from UCLA here when I get it.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2007, 04:30:52 pm »
http://www.biblio.com/authors/652/Carlos_Castaneda_Biography.html

"He wrote that he was born in Sao Paulo, Brazil on Christmas Day in 1931, but immigration records show that he was born 6 years earlier in Cajamarca, Peru. He moved to the United States in the early 1950s and became a naturalized citizen in 1957. He was educated at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) (B.A. 1962; Ph.D. 1970). Castaneda was later stripped of the Ph.D. on the grounds that he presented fiction in the place of proper ethnographic research."

If you want more, I suggest you do the research yourself.  I have many other things to do at this time then to try and prove to you that castaneda wasn't full of crap. I have never met any Indian people who believed his bs, either. I am sure there are some. I just never met them.

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2007, 04:39:33 pm »
http://www.biblio.com/authors/652/Carlos_Castaneda_Biography.html

"He wrote that he was born in Sao Paulo, Brazil on Christmas Day in 1931, but immigration records show that he was born 6 years earlier in Cajamarca, Peru. He moved to the United States in the early 1950s and became a naturalized citizen in 1957. He was educated at the University of California, Los Angeles (UCLA) (B.A. 1962; Ph.D. 1970). Castaneda was later stripped of the Ph.D. on the grounds that he presented fiction in the place of proper ethnographic research."

If you want more, I suggest you do the research yourself.  I have many other things to do at this time then to try and prove to you that castaneda wasn't full of crap. I have never met any Indian people who believed his bs, either. I am sure there are some. I just never met them.

How interesting. No doubt I will have little trouble getting confirmation of this from UCLA. Thank you for your precious time Debbie. I guess I should feel honoured?

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2007, 04:41:51 pm »
Oh, so now with the snide remarks? When YOU could easily go to google and finds this stuff on your own? 

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2007, 05:12:31 pm »
Oh, so now with the snide remarks? When YOU could easily go to google and finds this stuff on your own? 
No Debbie, I am actively researching these claims by you as we speak...you just responded faster than I expected.  :-*

...so far I have partially scanned the Wikipedia website and found all of what you quoted EXCEPT any commentary about  UCLA revoking the PHD granted to Castaneda. Next step is UCLA.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2007, 05:17:16 pm »
You do resalize that wikipedia isn't the most reliable source don't you? Even THEY will tell you that. It's a good source, but sometimes the info is slanted deopending on who wrote the entry.

Now I am off to live in the real world.;)

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2007, 05:44:07 pm »
You do resalize that wikipedia isn't the most reliable source don't you? Even THEY will tell you that. It's a good source, but sometimes the info is slanted deopending on who wrote the entry.

Now I am off to live in the real world.;)

Debbie, I am aware that Wiki is the product of its readers and ful of biases and opinions.

This I found at this Russian website. It appears to be a portion of a larger comment by one of Castaneda's many critics. What is odd about it is that the word "revelation" is used in substitute for "opnion"...

Quote
What is most interesting is the response that has greeted the revelation that Castaneda's works are fictional. First, there has been no real attempt to revoke his Ph.D., based as it is on fraudulent "research." Secondly, as de Mille ... documents, the response among many anthropologists and others who share the Don Juan type of philosophical outlook has been neutral.

Nonetheless it does appear to confirm that UCLA never yeilded to the efforts by DeMille to have Castaneda's works reclassified as being fiction and then have his PHD revoked.

I will visit UCLA next.

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2007, 06:34:19 pm »

It is interesting that just as my research was revealing that the commentary by Debbie Red Bear was not accurate and that UCLA never did declare the writings of Carlos Castaneda as being fictional and that UCLA never did revoke the PHD granted to Castaneda, someone name 'educatedindian' moved this entire thread into the "frauds" catagory either by accident or as an intentional attempt to side-step all intelligent investigation of this matter?

Why would any educated being, indian or otherwise, try to prejudice a discussion like this right in the middle of a sincere investigation?

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2007, 06:50:53 pm »
He owns this website and he has more research on the subject then I do.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2007, 06:58:36 pm »
Calm down C, sheesh, such paranoia and hysteria.

I moved the thread into Fraud because that's what Castaneda clearly was, what he was proved to be repeatedly, and even what he repeatedly (and even cheerfully) admitted to being many times.

If you're too lazy to have not noticed what most people knew thirty-forty years ago, don't go blaming us. The information is all over the place. You could've simply hit the search button on this site, or used google.

This is precisely what Debbie, Moma P, myself, and many other NDNs have pointed out before, that Nuagers get mad at NDNs for not living up to exploiters' falsehoods rather than getting mad at the frauds who fooled them.

UCLA did not revoke his PhD, and it's considered something of an embarassment to them and the anthropology profession. But I know that today most anthropology courses only use his works as negative examples, of what not to do, fabricate falsehoods, fantasies, and exploit or lie about Native peoples.

Sheehs, for someone who devotes so much effort to the guy, how could you fail to overlook literally hundreds of sources like these? And why the hysteria when a Native dares question him?
http://skepdic.com/castaneda.html
http://www.commondreams.org/views01/1021-09.htm
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020621.html
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_5_23/ai_55683964

Or DeMille's work. Or the revelations of a member of his inner circle, that he kept a harem around him that likely all comitted suicide after his death. (Article is in our site.)

Or the most obvious facts of all (ones that even many anthros overlooked) that nothing in his falsehoods had the slightest resemblance to Yaqui, Mayan, or Toltec beliefs, or any Native beliefs, for that matter. They were all obvious ripoffs of Tai Chi passed off as Native.

My favorite debunking is still Deloria's, that his books (and the phony "Don Juan") obviously all came out of a hit of acid.

To me, all his works prove is how elaborate the fantasies are that some whites make up about Natives, and just how desperate and spiritually barren they must be to believe them.

frederica

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 07:21:33 pm »
There was a movement to take away his PhD in 1972, by some at the University. It was pretty well stopped because of the fact that the University of California Press was publishing his books and making millions. So the general attitude was if people want to "visit the Land of Oz by way of his books, let them". It was a fact that it was not Anthropology, but fantasy, and well known. frederica

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 07:38:26 pm »
Custodian, kindly quit spamming the thread with posts that only show you haven't bothered to actually read what we say, look at the links or other evidence we give you, or do any actual research. 

Offline custodian

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Re: Carlos Castaneda
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2007, 07:44:07 pm »
Custodian, kindly quit spamming the thread with posts that only show you haven't bothered to actually read what we say, look at the links or other evidence we give you, or do any actual research. 
I am working as quickly as I can to investigate the links you have provided.

Your impatience with me is unbecoming.

Your description of my input as being spam is derrogatory.

Ps, why did you feel it was unjust of me to ask frederica for whatever evidence she has to support her purported facts? How was that out of line?
« Last Edit: April 09, 2007, 07:52:24 pm by custodian »