Author Topic: Ralph Oquendo AKA Dancing Thunder, Susqehannock  (Read 51761 times)

Offline rob

  • Posts: 8
Ralph Oquendo AKA Dancing Thunder, Susqehannock
« on: April 05, 2007, 08:07:25 am »
This is a group located in Holland.
www.shamanisticteachings.org   
website is in dutch and english
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 03:05:11 pm by educatedindian »

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 861
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2007, 01:33:27 pm »
http://www.shamanisticteachings.org/uk/index.htm

Quote
For a small consideration there is a special tent for the children during the hours in which you follow the teachings. Enthusiastic volunteers receive the children and take care of their special programs. There is love and care for the very small ones and the elderly kids from 3-4 years old are being kept interested with all kind of activities like the creation of a power-object, dressing up like an Indian...

 :o :o :o

I'm not making fun of the author's English but some of it's hilarious:

Quote
The following meetings are planned. However, it is necessary to submit by e-mail or by telephone.

I can believe that.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2007, 01:43:43 pm by Barnaby_McEwan »

frederica

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2007, 05:24:22 pm »
Dancing Thunder=Grand Sachem and Chief of the Susquehannock of Flordia. Suppose to be State Recognized Tribe and Church. I don't think they have existed for over 200 years. http://www.oheyo.org    Website not working.  http://www.indianz.com/board/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8140                                         They are not listed on the 500 Nations site as a state recognized tribe. I not sure they really exist.  frederica

Offline educatedindian

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2007, 10:25:52 pm »
"Kunsal Kassapa was born in Granollers, Northern Spain. He is mentioned as a Shamanistic Monk and is called a Lama. He connects shamanism with boeddhism. As an Alchemist he is busy with the manifestation of the material. His teachers are Masters in Burma. This is the first time in the Netherlands that Kunsal Kassapa will share his knowledge. His teachings will be in English"

Mentioned as a monk? Called a lama? As an alchemist? Maybe that explains it all.

"Jorge Nopaltzin Guadarrama has been born in Mexico-city. His wisdom has been passed on from generation to generation. His insight and knowledge about the spiritual life and healing methods of the Aztec are acknowledged far beyond the frontiers of Mexico."

OK, that name is unintentionally funny. A nopal is a cactus, stripped of thorns, that is sold as food, usually eaten with scrambled eggs.

So his name actually translates George "Cactus Omelet" Guadarrama.

Outside of this site, every other site with his name is in German. Even the Spanish version of that website is no longer available.

Wait a minute, found one in Italian, where he appeared at a psychic convention.
http://web.mac.com/mdonofrio/iWeb/www.chezmax.eu/Maxlog.ch/45CED764-DC34-42E9-B839-1D70FC8A8317.html
Here's the google translation:
"The spiritual, sciamano healer and musician Jorge Nopaltzin Guadarrama are born in Mexico in 1945 and learn the traditional techniques of the Teocally school.  Jorge To. Kokopelli Guadarrama will come to the Psi-tage with its son."

Kokopelli? Enough said.

But probably the funniest thing on the site is the middle aged white woman in what she probably imagines is some kind of "tribal" tank top.

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2007, 04:08:27 am »
the Susquehannock were from pa not fl
the river still bears there name

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2007, 04:17:59 am »
to rob


Registrant Name:Erik Kolthof
Registrant Street1:Weerdingerzandweg 5
Registrant Street2:
Registrant Street3:
Registrant City:Valthe
Registrant State/Province:
Registrant Postal Code:7872TB
Registrant Country:NE
Registrant Phone:+227.591580002
Registrant Phone Ext.:
Registrant FAX:
Registrant FAX Ext.:
Registrant Email:erik.kolthof@lumos-consultancy.nl

frederica

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2007, 03:33:33 pm »
Actually they were from Northern Maryland, across Pa, to Southern New York. They as a Nation no longer exist, but there is probably some Susquehannok's out there mixed with Lenape' or Seneca. Many were just wiped out by the diseases brought in. frederica

Offline dabosijigwokush

  • Posts: 265
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #7 on: May 08, 2007, 02:23:35 am »
i sent a letter to the group running the events asking them to check out the (dancing thunder)
for pass port and bia card
there is a law there against fraud
theift by deciption

Offline Zia

  • Posts: 13
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2008, 08:23:04 pm »
I would like to know more about this "chief Dancing Thunder".

Hollands best known "shaman" has even dedicated one of her books to him. I was shocked to find out the last members of the Susquehannoktribe died in the 18th century. And it only took me one click in google to find out!

I found a long interview with this man in Dutch in which he states that all people in Holland have some Susquehannok blood, because of Dutch immigrants returning to Holland ??? :o

I even heard about Dutch people who believe they are reincarnated Susquehannock

He organises sweat lodges en teaches classical knowledge and traditional wisdom and blablabla............

There are different "tribes" in Holland now, all related to the Susquehannocktribe in Florida, one of those is the "Eagle tribe" which organises a course to loose weight "in a shamanic way". ;D

Need I say more?

A video about the festival
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okt_C7UmtZs

The dutch interview  http://www.shamanisticteachings.org/content/video/interviewdancingthunder.htm

frederica

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2008, 11:57:58 pm »
Chief Dancing Thunder pops up every once in a while, mostly on CD's makes some kind of 'shamanistic chants',  Mostly in Europe. No longer has website that I can find. The Susquehannock were pretty much wiped out by disease in the early 1600's, they had little to do with colonist, And what was left of them that didn't flee to other Nations were killed by colonist in the mid-1600's. You may find Lenape, Tuscarora, Onieda or the Oklahoma Seneca with some Susquehannock blood, but unless the Dutch took the women and children back, which I have my doubts, I wouldn't count on it. Plus, if I not mistaken the English pushed the Dutch into the New York area.  There might be a couple, be mighty thin, but overall sounds like another fantasy.

Offline NanticokePiney

  • Posts: 191
Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 12:25:50 am »
Chief Dancing Thunder pops up every once in a while, mostly on CD's makes some kind of 'shamanistic chants',  Mostly in Europe. No longer has website that I can find. The Susquehannock were pretty much wiped out by disease in the early 1600's, they had little to do with colonist, And what was left of them that didn't flee to other Nations were killed by colonist in the mid-1600's. You may find Lenape, Tuscarora, Onieda or the Oklahoma Seneca with some Susquehannock blood, but unless the Dutch took the women and children back, which I have my doubts, I wouldn't count on it. Plus, if I not mistaken the English pushed the Dutch into the New York area.  There might be a couple, be mighty thin, but overall sounds like another fantasy.

 The last Susquehanna (Conestoga) Indians were wiped out by the 'Paxton Boys' in Lancaster County, Pennsylvania.

frederica

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 12:32:22 am »
lol, thanks, couldn't remember who.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2008, 02:02:26 am »
Seems like the Susquehannock "tribe" is now openly saying they're just about spirchul stuff, vague knockoffs of Lakota beliefs.

http://alabamasusqtribe.org/
"most of the original tribe of Susquehannock either died in battles between 1615 & 1676 , or died in a smallpox epidemic in 1661. Some Susquehannock escaped death by escaping and joining with the Meherrin Tribe in North Carolina."

So why not join the Meherrin?

"The  Susquehannock of today was reformed by direct descendants of the original Susquehannock."

That would them, at best, people with a quantum of perhaps 1/4024, by my count, assuming one generation is 30 years. Even intermarrying as much as they could without causing birth defects wouldn't raise the quantum to more than maybe 1/256.

"Principal Chief Piercing Eyes Pen, a direct descendant of the Susquehannock, had a vision and began to band people together that wanted to walk a true path of the people. When  Principal Chief  Piercing Eyes Pen retired he passed his position on to Principal Chief Dancing Thunder Oquendo, who now resides in the Netherlands."

Can't say much for his judgement if he ran off to sell ceremonies to Europeans.

"Today there are several Tribes of Susquehannock scattered throughout Turtle Island . There is a known tribe in Florida, Oklahoma, Ohio and Alabama."

This is the first I've heard outside of FL. Anyone else?

"The Alabama Branch of the Susquehannock Tribe/Church of Native Spirituality was established in 1976. We are affiliated with the Pan American Indian Association and have been recognized by the federal government to operate as a Tribal Church."

Uh, no, the feds don't recognize tribal churches. Or any churches, except for tax exemption, which the ST of AL don't mention.

"It was decided that we would not affiliate ourselves with the bureaucratic scrutiny of any Federal or State Indian Affairs Associations  (i.e.: BIA, etc.) , we are dedicated to practicing a true Native American Spiritual Path."

Gee, it wouldn't have a thing to do with not being able to get recognized...

"Our Principal Chief, Grand Sachem Clifton Running Wolf Belcher, who was appointed Principal Chief in 1997, by Chief Piercing Eyes Penn, had a vision and organized our tribal structure to insure that the principals  of our ancestors would be taught and practiced in our daily walk."

Chiefs by appointment, and not election?

"The head of  the White side of our Tribe, the Medicine Society, is Shaman Rod Bear Tree Fulton, D.D., who oversees the Spiritual teachings of the Tribe. A Pipe Keeper is available to ensure Protection and Proper Knowledge concerning the use of the Sacred Prayer Pipe. The Red side of the Tribe is headed by our Vice-Principal Chief Edwin Lone Elk Metzger."

And their membership application includes:

"Ceremonial Name:

(*** If you want our Shaman to assist in choosing a name, please write a few lines about yourself on a separate sheet of paper to aid in selection. ***)

(  )  Would you be willing to donate additional monies to aid us in helping our Brothers and Sisters that are incarcerated so they are able to learn their heritage.                        Amount:  ________________

Is it OK to share your address and phone number with others you may find to be helpful?

(  ) Yes                     (  ) No                       

Please read the attached Mission Statement 

Make Tax Deductible Donation Payable to:

Complete & Mail Application To:

Alabama Branch of the Susquehannock Tribe
Church of Native Spirituality
 P.O Box 445
 Woodstock, Al 35188                                   

 (Please use the back of this application to tell us about yourself, including spiritual beliefs and practices)"

And a little more from the chiefs and the shaman:

"Another honor was bestowed upon me in April of 2006. I was appointed as the Alabama State Coordinator for the Pan American Indian Association. Chief White Bear of the PAIA, has given me much advice on important issues....We are the only Tribe, that I am aware of on Turtle Island, that has designed written lesson plans that teach about our heritage."

Talk about out of touch. Someone send him a catalog from Dine College.

"From Shaman Rod Bear Tree Fulton D.D."

DDS is a dentist. What's DD?

"Unseen Powers provided us knowledge, visions. We immediately placed positive energy in our walk to fulfill our intention. Thus the formation of a Tribe/Church that actually uses as its foundation Medicine for Spiritual Progress up the Tree of Life to become more like the Creator."

"From Vice-Principal Chief Edwin Lone Elk Metzger
When I first joined the Alabama Branch of the Susquehannock Tribe/Church of Native Spirituality, I truly did not know what to expect. After 50 plus years of trying to gain some balance in my life with the deluge of every day life and some semblance of a positive Christian life, I had almost given up hope. Then the Creator guided me to this tribe. Although I have some blood quantum, (my  grandmother was full blooded Iroquois), I had never practiced or even been associated with the Native American Culture."

And the PAIA that their chief brags about:

http://www.lovinghandsinstitute.com/htm/paia.htm
"The Pan American Indian Association is not an Indian Tribe. We have no ties with the Bureau of Indian Affairs or any other tribal authority. We are people from all walks of life. Metis/mixed-blood, Indigenous Americans who have awakened to our tribal Spirit that is calling us home.

Our members are of many different tribal heritages. When one chooses to become a PAN AMERICAN INDIAN, they must Honor and Walk the Twelve Point Pledge, respect the laws local, state, federal. PAIA is for those who have tried to enroll into their ancestral tribe and for whatever reason have been denied and individuals who have felt the calling of the Ancient Turtle Lodge. All are welcomed into the Pan American Indian Association, as Brothers and Sisters.

We have our own 'Medicine Path Ways', inclusive to all who choose to share with us. We have our own Spiritual Leader and Spiritual Counselors, certified by our Council of Elders. We celebrate the Sacred Pipe, Asi (sweatlodge) the teachings of Grandmother Moon the cycles of Life, weddings, Cleansing/Blessing of Home, Namings, Funeral, etc. We have not taken from our Elder Relatives, we have UNITED, to Honor our ancestors with regard to who we are, Metis American Indians."
 
The PAIA's founder:

"DR. ROSALIND SKYHAWK OJALA, D.D., ICMT.
Dr. Ojala
Founder, Administrative Director and State Authorized Instructor for Loving Hands Institute.
She is an Interdenominational Minister and Sacred Pipe Carrier of Native American and European Ancestry and Principal Chief of the Pan American Indian Association Thunderbird Clan of Redwood River Lodge.
Skyhawk has been an ABMP certified Massage Therapist since 1974 and has taught and facilitated classes in the Advanced Healing Arts and Holistic Health Education since 1969. She has held a California State Authorized Teaching Credential in Massage Therapy since 1982.
In 1976, she helped open and was Head Supervisor of the Massage Therapy Staff and a Physical Therapy Aide at the Physical Therapy Center in Mill Valley, CA, where she worked in association with Donald Stutzman, R.P.T., a Registered Physical Therapist. Skyhawk also worked as a Physical Therapy Aide with Don Stutzman at Rafael Convalescent Hospital in San Rafael, CA, from 1976 through 1979 in the Physical Therapy Department.
Skyhawk is a Professional member of ABMP Associated Bodywork and Massage Professionals; the International Clergy Association; a Lifetime Member of the Pan American Indian Association; Four Worlds Development Network, and the Pipestone Indian Shrine Association."
 
Someone in the health field correct me if I'm wrong. She was a masseuse and a physical therpay aide. Why is she claiming the title of doctor?

There's more than one PAIA, and I'm not sure if the one in CA is the same the Alabama bunch was talking about. Found one in FL.

Also one from another group calling itself Whirling Rainbow.
http://groups.msn.com/WhirlingRainbow/paiaupdate.msnw
"May 4, 04 will mark the 20th Anniversary of the Pan-American Indian Assoc. Many had said that a Mixed-blood Native American Indian organization would never work or last, our coming anniversary tells another story. The hard contest has tempered our metal and is the source of our strength....

7-15-05 - Whirling Rainbow (PAIA NEWS) Vol. 21, No. 2 is temporarily out of print. Church members and Whirling Rainbow (PAIA NEWS) subscribers i.e. Universities/College's, Library's, other Native-Natural organizations (exchange publications) will receive this notification in the near future.

Thank you FLIES WITH SUN, love, light, Blessings Be. Your support is very much appreciated. And has allowed for the mailing of the PAIA NEWS 'temporarily out of print notice'. Thank You - the Elders Council

3-8-06

Dear Brothers and Sisters

This Brother-Sisterhood was established in 1984 and is a Federal/State recognized Native American Church; we support locally Elder Care, the Women & Children Shelter, Soup Kitchen, Adopt-A-Road and a Native-Natural Prison Outreach for Native Practitioner’s.

The Whirling Rainbow is a gratuitous church publication and is temporarily out of print. Currently there are no available church funds to publish the bulletin. Be patient, when the necessary funds become available every old and new member, non-member, university/college, institutionalized person subscribers will receive their subscription.

Many times in our history we have suffered through such poverty and we have always been blessed and have rebounded and resumed publication. The church receives NO FUNDS from Government or Corporate Grants, etc., we rely totally on member sponsorship and when member support is lacking it reflects in what your church is able to do.

Pan-American Indian Association Peer-Patron Members share equally and responsibly in the growth and future of this Brother-Sisterhood. Please contact this office if you have any questions.

Sincerely
PAIA"

frederica

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2008, 02:54:52 am »
First time I ever heard of them outside of Flordia, but they not much different, selling pipes, pebbles and 25.00 lifetime memberships.

Offline matt e

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Re: grand sachem and chief
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2008, 07:18:39 am »
D.D. is doctor of divinity recieved from religious studies. Would be interesting to know where he got it from.  Is it honorary? , did he get it from a diploma mill? a real university?
feel free to share any post I make as long as you give me credit. I want everyone to know who to send the hate mail to.