Author Topic: Heyoka Magazine & John Lekay  (Read 68337 times)

Offline tachia

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Heyoka Magazine & John Lekay
« on: January 30, 2007, 12:04:36 pm »
i found aspects of this distrubing .. check it out .. dig around in the site a bit .. let me know what you think ..

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/index.htm
click the picture to enter the site
 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2007, 05:08:31 am by educatedindian »

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2007, 12:39:09 pm »
What a strange site.

[Barnaby's note: Lekay's address and phone number, retrieved via whois, removed because it's no longer available via whois. I told Lekay via PM I'd remove it when he amended his site's whois info. He claimed that we were harassing him by posting information he had negligently made public when he registered his domain.]



Quote
John LeKay, born 1961 in London, England, privately educated, began his career as a painter and filmmaker; worked at Pinewood film studios and a circus, later turned to making sculpture in the early 80s and is considered to be one of the most innovative and influential artists of his time, referred to as a sculptural alchemist.

http://www.johnlekay.com/John%20Website%20Files/johnweb.BIO-1.Htm

One thing I find disturbing is that Lekay promotes (with an extremely tasteless photo) Kevin Annett, whose name will be known to many in connection with the campaigns for justice for the victims of the residential schools in Canada.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2007, 06:25:04 pm by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2007, 03:29:22 pm »
Promoting Suzanne Depree/"Looking Back Woman," Pete V Catches, ajnd David Swallows. We have a thread about Depree that will interest you, including what a lot of big names say about her getting virtually every fact wrong.

Most of this magazine is non-Native artists promoting environmental causes for Natives, but I have no idea what promoting the phony claims of Dupree and her trashing Looking Horse has to do with that.

Offline tachia

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2007, 11:54:57 pm »
Promoting Suzanne Depree/"Looking Back Woman," Pete V Catches, ajnd David Swallows. We have a thread about Depree that will interest you, including what a lot of big names say about her getting virtually every fact wrong.

Most of this magazine is non-Native artists promoting environmental causes for Natives, but I have no idea what promoting the phony claims of Dupree and her trashing Looking Horse has to do with that.

that is what first caught my attention .. huge promotion of dupree .. and if you dig in the previous issues there is also promotion of "rolling thunder" and a few others that seemed 'wrong' but that i did not know of personally .. .. the mag seems to promote some dubious people and questionable "things" ..

Marlon

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2007, 06:32:57 pm »


Yes it is disturbing. Totally agree with you and feel the same way about most of what I read and see on the site. Especially about the environment in South Dakota and what Kevin Annett has told me regarding the situation in Canada. He asked me to post the "tasteless" photo by the way.  Also what Bob Robideau told me about Ana Mae. Yes its very disturbing.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.7.PAINTINGS.RobertRobideau.

Most people have no idea about any of this. Fortunately this site reaches millions every month or so all over the world.

My question to you is do you mean that since I'm a white guy doing this, you find it disturbing?

In response to "Most of this magazine is non-Native artists promoting environmental causes for Natives, but I have no idea what promoting the phony claims of Dupree and her trashing Looking Horse has to do with that".

Yes that's absolutely correct, it is mostly about the environment, but its not just about the environment even though Defenders of the Black Hills and the Silkwood project issues is a priority.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and view. People make claims and allegations all the time. people criticize, invalidate and "Trash" people all the time based on conjecture, intuition, speculation, hearsay, gossip and third party information. Most of the time its not always on fact, logic, reason or truth. 

I am in no way implying she has done this or am defending her claims, (justified or "phoney" )or am criticizing her either.  Not am I promoting her or anyne else.  I am not anyone PR person.

The interview with Looking Back Woman is about her claims about the Canupa her father Calvin Dupree gave her. There is no doubt this is Fools Crows ceremonial Sundance Canunpa. No one disputes this. Even the people you cited. I know since I as privy to this feed you posted and much much more for many months.

She answered most of my questions. I think her position is crystal clear.  My intention was to find out exactly what this is, who she is and what this issue is about. This is impossible to know from just an interview. I still don't know the answers and much of this is still surrounded in mystery.

From what I have been told by various medicine people and elders, Lakota, Cree, Navajo, Apache, Cherekee, all canupa are sacred. I don't think that is the question.

As far as Rolling Thunder is concerned I have read all the negative commentary about him. I never net him but know others that knew him very well and lived with him.

I still find him interesting for many reasons.  That's why I posted the old interview from the 70s.

As far as plastic medicine men and shamans and wanna be new medicine men or new age white guys doing sweat lodges, what else is new. Freud runs in every culture. The world is riddled with cults and all this nonsense and con artists. if you want to know my views on all this stuff, they are similar to this mans.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.PHILOS.UG.Khrishnamurti.htm


Anyone who claims they are enlightened in my book they are not. Anyone who calls them selves holy they are not. As far as being sacred, we all are. Everything is. At a subatomic level feces and a diamond is the same thing. That makes you or I or anyone else no better than feces on that level including all these so called holy people.






Offline tachia

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 08:15:06 am »

(my response is in bold)

john ..
i received your email today .. was about to reply when i saw that you had posted in here .. so i am going to respond in here .. i cannot speak for anyone but myself .. so please know that this response is merely my own opinions .. ..


Yes it is disturbing. Totally agree with you and feel the same way about most of what I read and see on the site. Especially about the environment in South Dakota and what Kevin Annett has told me regarding the situation in Canada. He asked me to post the "tasteless" photo by the way.  Also what Bob Robideau told me about Ana Mae. Yes its very disturbing.
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.7.PAINTINGS.RobertRobideau.
i think that we would all agree that the things you have pointed out here are disturbing .. with some variations on what exactly is disturbing  .. apparently there is content that i find disturbing that you do not .. and therein lies the problem ..

Most people have no idea about any of this. Fortunately this site reaches millions every month or so all over the world.
 
considering your choice of certain content, i would have to say that it is very unfortunate that this magazine reaches millions ..

My question to you is do you mean that since I'm a white guy doing this, you find it disturbing?
do i object to your choice of certain content for your magazine .. yes, i do .. do i object based on the fact that you’re a “white guy??? ..??.. absolutely not! .. why would i? .. my objection and disapproval is never a race issue, it is about what is right and what is wrong .. ..

In response to "Most of this magazine is non-Native artists promoting environmental causes for Natives, but I have no idea what promoting the phony claims of Dupree and her trashing Looking Horse has to do with that".
Yes that's absolutely correct, it is mostly about the environment, but its not just about the environment even though Defenders of the Black Hills and the Silkwood project issues is a priority.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and view. People make claims and allegations all the time. people criticize, invalidate and "Trash" people all the time based on conjecture, intuition, speculation, hearsay, gossip and third party information. Most of the time its not always on fact, logic, reason or truth. 
I am in no way implying she has done this or am defending her claims, (justified or "phoney" )or am criticizing her either.  Not am I promoting her or anyne else.  I am not anyone PR person.
i spend very long hours researching a person as thoroughly as i can before forming an opinion of them .. this whole group does this .. i do not go around “trashing??? people based on “conjecture, intuition, speculation, hearsay, gossip and third party information??? .. i do not 'trash' people period .. i will, and do, form an educated opinion and speak to others about the person/s in question .. as well as attempting to warn others of the persons motives if they are nefarious ..
you are giving people, like dupree, maximum exposure .. you do not question the credibility of these frauds and therefore your readers do not question it either .. your articles/interviews come across to the reader as FACT .. come across to the reader as if these frauds truly were what they all claim to be .. this is misleading to say the very least .. and in my opinion it IS promotion of the frauds ..   there is not a hint of any of the frauds being other than that which they claim to be .. you are portraying the frauds solely  as they claim to be without question of their validity, credentials or their standing in the ndn nations/communities, without any reference to the opinions of what the ndn peoples themselves think of these individuals .. .. your promoting them to the 'millions' of readers  you have, thus garnering for them many more 'followers' .. which is exactly what all charlatans want .. are your articles/interviews of these frauds, like dupree, based on “fact, logic, reason or truth??? or based solely on what the frauds themselves are telling you is fact, logic, reason and truth? .. where is the objective reporting? .. where is the other side of the coin? .. where is the ndn perspective on these frauds?


The interview with Looking Back Woman is about her claims about the Canupa her father Calvin Dupree gave her. There is no doubt this is Fools Crows ceremonial Sundance Canunpa. No one disputes this. Even the people you cited. I know since I as privy to this feed you posted and much much more for many months.
i am sorry, but for you to state: “There is no doubt this is Fools Crows ceremonial Sundance Canunpa.??? is simply erroneous .. Fools Crow gave many pipes to many people .. perhaps there is little doubt that this is one of those pipes, one given to dupree’s father by Fools Crow .. yet is it THE Sacred Canupa, is it Fool Crows Personal ceremonial Canupa? .. no! .. .. it is a pipe, perhaps sacred, perhaps not, i would think that would depend on how it is now being used .. my personal opinion of how dupree is ‘attempting’ to use this pipe, is that she is profaning the sacred .. ..

She answered most of my questions. I think her position is crystal clear.  My intention was to find out exactly what this is, who she is and what this issue is about. This is impossible to know from just an interview. I still don't know the answers and much of this is still surrounded in mystery.
i would agree that she has made her position  “crystal clear??? .. it is exceedingly clear to myself as well as a great many others that she intends to set herself up as the 'new leading plastic-shame-on' for the lost wonderbread children .. with no thought to the ndn peoples themselves whatsoever .. .. .. you said she answered 'most' of your questions, i would be very interested in the questions she reused to answer for you, i believe many of us would .. ..  .. .. i would also agree that it would be impossible for you to know much about her at all, from just one  interview with her, and no research on her, nor any interviews from her detractors .. .. just how much is “shrouded in mystery??? and how much is intentionally cloaked in subterfuge and duplicity? ..

From what I have been told by various medicine people and elders, Lakota, Cree, Navajo, Apache, Cherekee, all canupa are sacred. I don't think that is the question.
indeed it is my understanding as well that all Canupa are Sacred when they are used in a sacred manner .. i am not of the Lakota/Dakota/Nakota etc (sioux) peoples, so it is not my place to speak of these things .. yet i will say that the Sacred Canupa is of the Lakota, etc. peoples .. and i can tell you for a fact that the Canupa is NOT Cree, Dine’ (navajo), Apache, nor Tsalagi (cherokee) .. individuals of these nations/tribes/bands might now possess a Canupa, yet it is not of their peoples .. we all had 'pipes', only the Lakota etc. had the Sacred Canupa .. your correct, all Canupas are sacred when used in a sacred manner, and whether or not the woman is in possession of her fathers Canupa, is not the question, yet there are many other questions that center around her possession and usage of her fathers Canupa .. ..

As far as Rolling Thunder is concerned I have read all the negative commentary about him. I never net him but know others that knew him very well and lived with him.
I still find him interesting for many reasons.  That's why I posted the old interview from the 70s.
so all of the “negative commentary about him??? is "negated by “third party information??? ..?? .. do you not think that those who were so obviously his followers, “knew him and lived with him??? would have other than negative opinions of him? .. or perhaps not, you don’t exactly say what these 'others??? who knew him, think of him .. i am merely left to assume that they spoke highly enough of him to negate all the negative you read and you still “find him interesting enough??? to promote him in your magazine ..again, where is the objectivity, the other side? .. 


As far as plastic medicine men and shamans and wanna be new medicine men or new age white guys doing sweat lodges, what else is new. Freud runs in every culture. The world is riddled with cults and all this nonsense and con artists.
the fact that this sort of thing exists, makes it alright??? .. this sort of thing is acceptable? .. we should all just accept this and do nothing to try to stop it? .. .. “what else is new??? .. ?? .. i find that attitude extremely flippant, as if you simply do not care .. which might explain why you promote these 'plastic shame-ons' and do absolutely nothing to even attempt to give another view of them ..

if you want to know my views on all this stuff, they are similar to this mans.
http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.PHILOS.UG.Khrishnamurti.htm
i, like many others, have only a dial up connection .. i cannot view vids .. yet i think you have made your views clear enough .. ..

Anyone who claims they are enlightened in my book they are not. Anyone who calls them selves holy they are not. As far as being sacred, we all are. Everything is. At a subatomic level feces and a diamond is the same thing. That makes you or I or anyone else no better than feces on that level including all these so called holy people.
perhaps you hold this opinion, because you have not ever met a truly 'enlightened' person' .. .. my opinion of the frauds you promote, by giving them center stage in your magazine, would most definitely be “feces??? . ..

all this being said .. it appears we have a very definite disagreement of opinion on these 'plastic shame-ons' and the biased way in which you portray them ..
 .. yet i would also like to commend you for your support of several of the Paha Sapa groups .. in particular, for your support of Harold One Feather, who is a friend of mine .. and who, btw, could use some support from you right now,.. as we speak, he is staging a “one man occupation???, in protest of the uranium poisoning of his peoples .. this occupation began on may 16 .. on may 21 he was served with an “eviction notice??? by the forest service .. although in a public statement to the rapid city newspaper, the forest service spokeswoman acknowledged that he was not doing anything illegal .. he was given 10 days to leave the national forest he is camping in  .. he faces arrest today, may 31 .. ..
other than the obviously inequitable coverage given to the frauds .. the magazine actually has some good articles and good coverage of a few ndn issues .. but, for me at least, the inequitable coverage given to the frauds destroys any credibility the magazine might have .. which is a shame considering that other than this, the magazine is informative and interesting .. i simply cannot condone, nor approve of, any publication that promotes frauds, no matter how good it may be in other content .. .. it simply seems 'two faced' to me .. on the one hand you support and promote 'plastic shame-ons' who dupe innocent people and cause great harm to all ndn peoples .. and on the other hand you support and promote several ndn environmental issues .. a contradiction which i cannot condone .. “with friends like you, who needs  enemies??? .. shrug .. any good that you do is negated with the harm that you perpetuate in your support and promotion of the frauds .. ..

perhaps you simply do not know that this too, is an ndn issue of grave importance with devastating consequences?  .. the proliferation of 'plastic shame-ons' IS a very crucial issue! ..

“The Spiritual and Cultural Misappropriation and Commodification of  the Indigenous Peoples???

perhaps you simply do not realize that this Issue is nothing less than Genocide for all indigenous peoples .. why bother to help the Paha Sapa groups save their lands and save lives,  when you advocate their genocide by supporting these frauds? ..

please forgive me for being harsh in my response .. i have no time, nor the inclination, to sugar coat this for you .. .. my words are not intended to offend anymore than yours are .. yet i am sure that you will be offended by my words just as i was by yours .. this being said .. perhaps we can begin a dialogue wherein we both come to understand each others views better? ..
in the spirit of my ancestors
tachia









Marlon

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2007, 10:32:27 pm »

Hi Tachia,

Please list all the documents, links, articles or any other information that will prove that Looking Back Woman is a "fraud" and a "plastic shaman" What ever that means.

I don't mean gossip, hearsay, conjecture, fiction or your own personal opinion. What I'm looking for is incontrovertible evidence. 



Offline debbieredbear

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2007, 11:22:26 pm »
Marlon,

How about YOU provide proof she's not? I have no dog in this fight, but since you are making demands, show YOUR proof.

BTW, the last time I was on your site, I saw an article about one of the pervert, Harley Reagan's "Twisted hairs" groupies. That doesn't impress me much.

Marlon

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2007, 01:29:52 am »
Hi Debbie,

Thanks for your kind words.

Now why do you think that I would even attempt to do something [insult] like that. I am not James Randi or out to debunk anyone. That's why your site is supposed to be about. 

What I am beginning to see is that's is blatantly obvious you have no evidence to substantiate your [insult] allegations.

That you have based this info on some empty gossip and an email. That doesn't look too substantial does it. As far as my site. trash it as much as you like. I will join in with you and [childish insult] [childish insult] [childish insult].
« Last Edit: June 03, 2007, 07:48:54 pm by educatedindian »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2007, 02:05:21 am »
Marlon , the link you can't seem to find , explaining some of what traditional people are feeling is wrong , is here ;

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=604.msg4766#msg4766

 Re: Suzanne Dupree, aka Looking Back Woman
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 07:37:15 PM »

Vivien High Elk
Quote
Paula, I was just looking and reading over some of this woman's account. It scared me to see pictures of a ceremony, you/we know as well not to record, take pictures of ceremonies, etc. Even to be discussing them. etc. This to me is like bragging. My father use to say: makis he wo'inapeke ki, tuwe heni hena hel ici page sni, nais ihan' han s'e iwogla ke sni . Cannupa ki he lila wakan, tuwe heni ikceya wayang ye sni, cante ojula wica yala kte heca. These are not to be discussed like this, this is something really fearsome, nobody talks about this type of (cannupa) sacredness like a common conversation, you cannot just go to see the pipe out of curiosity, your heart has to be in it, believe in it. The cannupa is a spirit and alive here in Pejito Wakpa.

Maybe, she is played by all of this, as my father use to say, beware, if you don't believe in it, don't go near it, if you play with it, it will play on you too. Maybe she needs to be educated on what we hold sacred, and these are, not bragging tools! Le miye ye. Vivian
----------------------

The cultural understanding , that these things are not talked about,  and posted up on the internet for the world to gawk at,  is very basic to most Native cultures .

You expect documentation and on line links ? to do with articles so Ancient and Sacred ? Even mentioning this on line feels to me to be disrespectful . I understand that this is a cultural thing , and maybe you don't understand what is so obvious to people more familiar with some aspects of traditional protocols , but just talking about some things on line , is really disturbing .

I want to make an analogy , and i apologize before hand if this is crude and I offend anyone . I am just using this analogy because maybe cultural differences make it hard for Marlon to "get it" . So I am using a cultural taboo he is probably more familiar with .

Imagine if someone posted a picture of of your grandmother , or your daughter , on line - naked - and we expected you to "prove" that whoever did this was a "nasty person' "Whatever that means .

And I don't mean gossip , hearsay , conjecture , fiction or your own personal opinion . What i am looking for is incontroveritable evidence ...

 Please list all the documents, links, articles or any other information that will prove that this is
" ~  wrong and not just that you are old fashioned / over protective / have issues with nudity ect ect ect .

Just that it offends a lot of traditional people should be all the "proof " you need something is wrong .

Hopefully this Looking Back Woman is not desecrating something , as close to the heart of the Lakota people as what she is trying to claim .
« Last Edit: June 01, 2007, 02:08:44 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline tachia

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2007, 03:56:42 am »

Hi Tachia,

Please list all the documents, links, articles or any other information that will prove that Looking Back Woman is a "fraud" and a "plastic shaman" What ever that means.

I don't mean gossip, hearsay, conjecture, fiction or your own personal opinion. What I'm looking for is incontrovertible evidence. 


first and foremost .. you do not have my permission to print anything i say in your magazine .. .. this is a discussion .. this is not an interview .. i want to make that very clear .. ..

hi john ..

please list all the following  information to attempt to prove that “looking back woman??? is what she claims to be .. “incontrovertible evidence??? .. please make sure that all evidence is from the Federally Recognized Native American Indian (henceforth referred to as “Indian???) Nation/Tribe/Band (henceforth referred to as “Nation???) with whom she claims affiliation, its Recognized Leaders, Government, and Citizens .. etc .. please do not include any non-Federally Recognized Nation evidence as it will not be accepted .. ie, no endorsements from non-Federally Recognized Nations, non-Indian Peoples, non-Indian Groups, non-Indian Organizations etc .. as this sort of evidence can only be construed to be merely gossip, hearsay, conjecture, fiction, personal opinion etc of non-Indians ie “whites??? .. and we have an abundance of that, yet none from quantifiable Indian sources ..

1) is she an Enrolled Citizen of a Federally Recognized Indian Nation ..  if so, please provide the name of said Nation to which she is a Citizen and Enrolled member of ..

2) is she in possession of a valid and current Enrollment card issued in her name by said Nation ..  if so, please provide the pertinent information listed on said enrollment card ..

3) is she in possession of a valid and current CDIB card issued in her name ..  if so, please provide the pertinent information that is listed on this card including the affirmed BQ ..

4) please provide the name of the Federally Recognized Indian Reservation on which she resides and the name of the Community within said Reservation, in which her residence is located ..

5) please provide a list of references from the Citizens of the Federally Recognized Indian Nation, on the Reservation, in the Community, in which she lives .. stating that she is indeed their Spiritual Leader and is well Respected by them ..

6) please provide letters of endorsement, approval, and authorization by the Indian Leaders, Government etc. on the Reservation and in the Community, in which she lives .. stating that she is indeed a Recognized and Respected Spiritual Leader Sanctioned by them, given Authorization by them in all Spiritual matters, for and by the Community in which she lives ..

7) please provide a comprehensive list of any Indian Societies, Associations, Groups, Organizations, etc ..  that are Known, Respected and Sanctioned by Federally Recognized Nations, .. that she is an active and participating Member of .. please include documentation by said Organization of active participatory Membership ..

8) is she actively involved in the many Issues facing not only her own Peoples but all Indigenous Peoples .. if so, please provide a compressive list of all Issues, Activities etc .. that she is ardently involved in .. please include documentation of said Activities and Issues ..

9) is she actively involved in, and/or a member of, any International Organizations which Support and Aid the Indian Nations in their Issues .. if so, please provide a comprehensive list of all the International Organizations which  she is in contact with and working with .. please include documentation by said Organizations ..

10) please provide any other Concrete, Current and Valid Documentation from the Federally Recognized Nation, she claims affiliation with,  its Leaders, its Government, and its Citizens ..

thank you ..
tachia

Offline tachia

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2007, 03:58:57 am »
sorry  .. i am still learning how to use this particular forum ... that is a number 8 .. not a smiley face .. i did not catch that one ..

Marlon

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Re: disturbing?
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2007, 04:28:11 am »
Hi Moma Pocupine, I put my text in green and will address our infomation. Thankyou for taking the time to do this.

1. First let me address the first link.

http://newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=604.msg4766#msg4766

I read this carefully and there is nothing here that disproves her claims. He is a great guy by the way and I truly admire this mans courage and knowledge of uranium comtamination even though I respectfully disagree with him in this matter. See  www.silkwoodproject.com excuse the plug but think his is very important.


2.   AN EMAIL FROM A WOMAN CALLED VIVIAN TO PAULA


"Paula, I was just looking and reading over some of this woman's account. It scared me to see pictures of a ceremony, you/we know as well not to record, take pictures of ceremonies, etc. Even to be discussing them. etc. This to me is like bragging. My father use to say: makis he wo'inapeke ki, tuwe heni hena hel ici page sni, nais ihan' han s'e iwogla ke sni . Cannupa ki he lila wakan, tuwe heni ikceya wayang ye sni, cante ojula wica yala kte heca. These are not to be discussed like this, this is something really fearsome, nobody talks about this type of (cannupa) sacredness like a common conversation, you cannot just go to see the pipe out of curiosity, your heart has to be in it, believe in it. The cannupa is a spirit and alive here in Pejito Wakpa.

Maybe, she is played by all of this, as my father use to say, beware, if you don't believe in it, don't go near it, if you play with it, it will play on you too. Maybe she needs to be educated on what we hold sacred, and these are, not bragging tools! Le miye ye. Vivian"


This does not prove anything either. If you disect this, this is just another opinion. I read this last year and much more. This does not disprove Looking Back Womans claims. What she states here are her beliefs about protocal. I am not disrespecting her beliefs in any way.

Vivian says  "These are not to be discussed like this, this is something really fearsome, nobody talks about this type of (cannupa) sacredness like a common conversation, you cannot just go to see the pipe out of curiosity, your heart has to be in it, believe in it. The cannupa is a spirit and alive here in Pejito Wakpa'."

Now read almost any book by Fools Crow, Black Elk, Lame Deer and others and they have all discussed this topic in length.


Read this book below very carefully written by a native if you have the time and please get back to me.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.MARTHA.PAGES.9.htm



Its just about this canunpa wakan. The canunpa wakan,  Its history and how it is supposed to be used by Martha Bad Warrior. One of the keepers. Elk heads daughter. I think she has much more authority to give anyone else a lecture on its usage. She also had no problem being photographed with it. Like Old man Elk Head before her.  



now when you say

"You expect documentation and on line links ? to do with articles so Ancient and Sacred ? Even mentioning this on line feels to me to be disrespectful . I understand that this is a cultural thing , and maybe you don't understand what is so obvious to people more familiar with some aspects of traditional protocols , but just talking about some things on line , is really disturbing."


This has nothing to do with your feelings about respect or your belief system, tradition or internet protocals.  This is about your allegations that Looking back woman is a Fraud.   You and many others have made some serious allegations. You have attempted to destroy her reputation. Also her fathers reputation. Her uncles reputation.  You can read what her father wrote about the sun dance

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.FEATURES.SUNDANCE.CalvinDupree.htm


Now you are saying you can not discuss this because of your cultural beliefs and internet protocols.  I can show you many many emails where Lakota natives have discussed this subject online and will do when the time is right. This also does not disprove her claims.

Then  you say  " I want to make an analogy , and i apologize before hand if this is crude and I offend anyone . I am just using this analogy because maybe cultural differences make it hard for Marlon to "get it" . So I am using a cultural taboo he is probably more familiar with .

Imagine if someone posted a picture of of your grandmother , or your daughter , on line - naked - and we expected you to "prove" that whoever did this was a "nasty person' "Whatever that means .


Moma Pocupione. What is this picture on the internet?  There are many more like this. Why do you think he allowed this photo to be taken. To be hidden under a rock. color]

 http://memory.loc.gov/award/iencurt/ct03/ct03029r.jpg


All I hear from you so far is protocols, culture, conjecture, analogies and opinions.  Nothing you have said proves Looking Back Woman is a fraud or that she has not Fools Crows ceremonial canunpa. That she has lied or mislead anyone.

That she has misused it, sold ceremony, pipes, sweats, seminars, books, CDs, dream catchers  or the rest of your criteria that makes someone a plastic medicine man. That she has abused her culture. She has strong opinions, yes and she has made some serious allegations as well. No disputing or denying this.

Now does that makes her a fraud because she has questioned some authority and ruffled some feathers? Is this what she is guilty of?  

  




coffee_drinker

  • Guest
Re: disturbing?
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2007, 04:29:24 am »
tachia,
Thank you for your posting yesterday, it could have not been said any better than that.
If Harold One Feather is in need of supporters up around the rap city area, could you let me know so I can get the word out on what he needs. Thanks

Marlon

  • Guest
Re: disturbing?
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2007, 04:40:17 am »
Hi Tachia,

Understood, nothing here will be posted on the site with out permission. I do not have any of this information but will forward it to her.

I know you can read about her familys history in this book. I know for certian the Smithsonian institute has documented and credited photos from this book of Martha Bad Warrior and the Looking Horse family. I know this for a fact.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.MARTHA.PAGES.9.htm

This is her father here. Maybe someone can check him out. see if he truly was a sundance leader and if that is him with Fools Crow in the photos. This should be easy to find out.

http://www.heyokamagazine.com/HEYOKA.6.FEATURES.SUNDANCE.CalvinDupree.htm


Her Uncles name is Chauncy Dupree, she claims he was heyoka. This should also should be easy to find out.

Her grandfather had something to do with saving the last Buffalo. This should be easy to prove.