NAFPS Forum

I suppose with the following post I am going to open a real "can of worms", for the "fraud" hunter-gatherers to have a field-day.

But here goes:

(I have posted this before on a couple of sites).

In Siberia there are three major groups of peoples: Uralic, Altaic and Paleo-Sibrian, and each one of these groups contain smaller groups (tribes).

The word "saman" comes from Tungus language (and though it has been debated upon) .... Tungus (Evenk) tribe is Altaic.
Our/my tribal grouping belongs to the Uralic group. (One can speak about Uralo-Altaic language group, but this takes one faaaar back in time before this group split in two).

Shamanism strongly suppressed by the Soviets is enjoying something of a revival now and even though there are language differences, still common themes and images appear among all forms of Siberian "Shamanism".

Since the fall of the "iron curtain", our/my cultural and language relatives (The Finns, Karelians, Saami, Votes, Veps, Estonians, Izhors, Komis, Voguls, Khanty, Mansi, Maris Mordvins and Nenets) have come together to discuss the many similarities and differences of our worldviews.
The main focus of these discussions have been the relationship of man and nature, the wisdom of our millenia-old cultures, and our conception of the natural order and man's role in it. Programs aiming for the survival of our small language and cultural groups into the future have been developed.

These interactions between our various cultural and language relatives therefore are about, quote: "Breaking the emerging global mono-culture into many original patterns of thinking engaged in intercourse and hence enriching rather than depleting each other"
Reviving our common shamanic spiritual heritage plays a big part in this.

Now that "shamanism" has become so popular in the west, so many have been jumping on the bandwagon, claiming to be "certified practitioners" of it. Or from the other point of view, so unpopular is the word shamanism, especially among the Native Americans it seems, that it has even been linked with the word shame and that of being plastic ....

As far as we are concerned this New Age phenomenon has got nothing to do with us ... it is just, that we do not want to reduce our traditions to some nostalgic laments or some pallid expressions of the bygone era. Or to put it poetically, this revival is about the survival of "The Songline of our Souls". Therefore shamanism today "breathes politics". It is about landrights, it is about the right to educate children in one's own language .... etc. etc. etc. etc.


Reality Orientation

There is somebody called "Shor", who talked about "Reality Orientation" saying that:

"Normal state of consciousness is characterized by immobilization of a structured frame of reference in the background of attention which supports, interprets and gives meaning to all experience. This frame of reference remains a superstructure of consciousness only by means of active mental striving, which in fact it is not usually conscious".

Astrologer Stephen Forrest says: (never mind now that I quote an astrologer)

"All our views of reality are conditioned by an unspoken model of the world - and that model is always arbitrary and limiting. It is mistake to take a model of reality for the reality itself".

Or to put it yet in another way:
We all have personal subconscious patterns of the psyche that are also part of a functional collective subconscious patterning or "programming" .... and it seems, that during the first 3, 4 and 5 years of age, a child becomes "acquainted" to this collective unspoken model of reality .... which then for the rest of ones life forms a kind of subconscious "core-system" way of automatic subconscious functioning .....
.....and unless we do become transparent to our own "unspoken programming of the psyche" i.e. become aware of our own subconscious ways we perceive reality as reality ....we can not see or we can not even fathom that other "programs" exist, imagining our own particular "reality orientation" to be T-h-e "All-Encompassing-Reality.

I think, that most of indigenous peoples see that there are at least two "Reality Orientations" .... indigenous and western, but westerners never seem to see it, imagining us all to be alike and think the same way.

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From personal point of view, this is what "shamanism" means to me.
It is a "Reality Orientation", out of which "shamanic" experiences and phenomena arise.
We do not see "shamanism" as our religion, we see it more as a cultural "mother tongue" ... a heritage way of life and a way to organize perceptual reality ... thus it is a worldview rather ... how to relate to Sacred Space ....and how to act accordingly to that Sacredness .... the rituals ... the myths how to handle those ...as shamanic worldview is mythological.
It has also been said, that "mythology is the landscape of the soul" ... but in addition mythology is a way of expressing and mapping the journeys of the soul and passing on those maps to the next generations.

Shamanic worldview is animistic. Everything is alive, everything has Spirit.
And since we do come from a hunter-gatherer culture ... Totemism also play/ed big part in our culture .... it gave you your place in the natural world as well as a social-order, f.e.x. who could hunt and for what, who could marry whom as you couldn't kill your own totem animal nor could you marry into your own totemic group. Generally, (though there could be exceptions to this) you inherited your totem from your mother.

Stuff like that ....

Now I am not trying to be some kind of a "shaman" here, nor am I an "expert" on shamanism either ... nor am I collecting money for our "cause", nor am I trying to "convert" anybody to "shamanism" .... but when there is so much talk about shamanism as "shame" and as "frauds" ... please just give a little thought in your mind to the fact, that shamanism is a genuine culture for some indigenous groups of people, people who are fighting for their very survival in this modern world at present time.

The problem I see with this "New Age Shamanism" is, that because the underlying "Reality Orientation" is not understood, and then some forms and practices are adobted, but pinning them down and turning them into "Western Reality Orientation" (grammar of mind) terms .... the very foundational core elements are negated and arrogantly bypassed ....turning shamanism into something which has nothing or very little to do with the original meaning of it .....

A.R.

I think people here at NAFPS share many of your views on this, Sarangerel did, for instance. We have discussed it several times. Read what she said about shamans and NAFPS' use of the term "plastic shaman".

QuoteThese interactions between our various cultural and language relatives therefore are about, quote: "Breaking the emerging global mono-culture into many original patterns of thinking engaged in intercourse and hence enriching rather than depleting each other"

I support this wholeheartly. It would be great if you can say more about this work, or use my PM since Tengerism in Siberia is my main interest (except my own Nordic beliefs of course). Was in Kyzyl and Ulan Ude last autumn, and are considering taking the train back. Thanks.

AR,
Perhaps you should search the older threads. My understanding is that shaman is entirely an anthro term. And of course the term has been corrupted and abused quite a bit by Nuagers.

Also to my understanding Siberian peoples and the Sami and Finns are two very separate groups. Samis and Finns are thought by many to be indigenous to Europe, but there is also another theory that has them related to the Berbers of N Africa. Roman historians mention them at least as far back as 500 BCE. Physically the Samis I met appeared to me only different from other Europeans in their eyes and cheekbones and sometimes being shorter in height.

But I certainly am far from an expert on any of these traditions. If you mean simply that indigenous people should network on common issues, that is certainly something I think we all agree with.

You probably would have had a better reception if you'd introduced yourself, which I believe you still haven't really done. 

Shamanism is entirely anthro, but not the title shaman. However, it should only by used within Tengerism, and there are many people is Siberia whose spiritual leaders are given different titles than "shaman".

Andreas

I can't really speak for nor about Tengerism, since Tengerism is Mongolian Shamanism. 

There are of course similarities that one comes across reading about Mongolian Shamanism, but as a Norwegian; - surely you already know that Finno-Ugrics are not Altaics and belong to another; - Uralic group. 

Or was this a trick question or something .... I am a bit confused here.

http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/march/UralicLanguageFamily.html

http://www.eki.ee/books/redbook/introduction.shtml


Educatedindian

Saami language belongs to the Finno-Ugric language family.
Saami is a bit separate group, but when it comes to language, culture and history we do have a lot in common.

I cannot remember which post I started reading here, but it said something about frauds using the "we" word.

Now I realize and no longer wonder why I was called "New Age Wannabe" and a "Fake" f-o-r using that  forbidden "we" word,  I wasn't being politically correct !   

Not using the "we" word may very well apply to Native Americans, and it does apply to Australian Aboriginal people as well, because there are cultural differences, and people will only speak for their own language group, unless specific permission has been given to speak for another; - language group.

Explanation (Australian Aboriginal):

LANGUAGE (PRE-CONTACT)
~ 240 languages spoken
~ 700 dialects
The reason there were so many languages spoken, is, because language is always tied to the land (marks).
When Ancestral Dreamtime Spirit Beings formed the Earth, created everything on it .... where they passed through and stopped & went underground or up to heavens leaving Sacred Sites of their passing or presence behind ..... There they also named everything, planted a language.
Neighbouring territorians might also have the same Spirit Ancestor, who passed through their lands, but at the boarder the Spirit Ancestor changed language.
Therefore when a person knows his dreaming, he will also know his land, which gives him his language & his identity & his place in the world & his culture.


Explanation (Finno-Ugric):

Because the Finno-Ugric languages are so endangered, we have taken the "we approach" in efforts to try and save our language family.
Within the language is the culture.

Don't you have language groups certain tribes belong to ?

A.R.

Educatedindian

You mentioned about the "looks" of Saami.

The same DNA marker is found in all Finno-Ugric groups.
Therefore not only are we linguistically and culturally related, but also genetically.
And the "looks" vary from tribe to tribe.

A little window to the "Finno-Ugric" world, if this link works:

http://au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/valgonehebo8/album?.dir=9c55scd&.src=ph&store=&prodid=&.done=http%3a//au.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph//my_photos

My own blood quantum is 1/4 Siberian.

A.R.

I used the word "Tengerism", because the Evenk people also practice Tengerism according to The Circle of Tengerism.

http://www.tengerism.org

I was also told this by Buryat shamans in Ulan Ude. But I have not yet visited Evenkia myself, so I will do more research on this if you provide information that proves the contrary. I will send you a quote from CoT on PM, when I have cleared it with them, since I have not asked them for permission to publish this quote on the net. 

The Mongolian people do use the word Tengerism for "Shamanism", for that is their word for it in their language.

But since the Altaic language family group is subdivided into 3 major groups, that of Mongolic, Tungusic and Turkic with even further subdivisions; - with whom do the Buryats in Ulan Ude consider as having close cultural and ethnic ties to practice their particular form of Tengerism with, within the "Circle of Tengerism" (as you put it Andreas).         
Just whom do the Buryats call "us", and do they even use the "forbidden-us-word" in this regard, I do not know, I am not Buryat.    That is t-h-e-i-r business !    Not mine. I do not make up nor police their rules, as to what choice of wording should or shouldn't be used by the "real" Buryats.

http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/march/AltaicLanguageFamily.html

(And I am avoiding "studying" Sarangerel's posts here at this moment).

But.   The logo for "Tengerism" used on the net site is a symbol, that I can't think of any Siberian descendant, who is in touch with his or her cultural spiritual heritage,  wouldn't recognize, and I do mean the meaning of the word to r-e-c-o-g-n-i-z-e.    

http://www.tengerism.org

But then again, maybe there are, I just cannot think of any who wouldn't or couldn't. 

And sometimes things do not neatly follow language and ethnicity closeness either.  The very little that I know of Yakuts (who are Altaic), the amount of "expertise" they have proven in knowing the Finno-Ugric traditions takes one back and makes you listen what they have got to say about us.   And many of the words Yakuts use to describe the same "phenomenon"  Finno-Ugrics do, makes you smile from ear to ear.

Therefore more so than with the Buryats, there is something special that Yakuts have in common with Finno-Ugrics, but I cannot tell you more, but thanks for the roundabout reminder, I've been meaning to learn more about this.


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I never came to Australia to "study" Aboriginal people nor to "gain indigenous knowledge"; - that kind of thought never even entered my head !    It was just that when through  life's twists and turns I came to know Aboriginal people and then ended up becoming a participating person within a certain community,  that I realized just how much of myself was reflected in the indigenous folk here, so much so that at one point I couldn't see myself apart, and nobody had the heart to tell me otherwise either. Bless their hearts !

When that particular tribe started to take steps to reconnect and revive their specific culture and heritage, I was asked to join, but that was the time I left, and it tore my heart out, but now I understand, looking back on it, that I had to leave and in turn take steps to reconnect and remember my own cultural past and heritage.

Then. Living elsewhere, after the speech Paul Keating gave in Redfern, the political climate was such, that the truth of "White Australia's Black History"  could finally be told.

http://www.australianpolitics.com/executive/keating/92-12-10redfern-speech.shtml

After that Aboriginal Elders and Educators got together and compiled a study course in conjunction with Government approval to do just that, so that people, who are not Australian Aborigines, but who do work dealing with public would at least get their facts right and interpret the history and culture according to Aboriginal wishes.

Because I worked in an Environmental Centre as an information person, and we worked in affiliation with the local Aboriginal group, also displaying the local culture in our "show-room", of course I needed to take that study with the Elders, it was a "situation-need" type of a situation.    So that is how I came to have permission to talk about some of the stuff.


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When it comes to a certain Finno-Ugric branch of "Siberian Shamanism",  there I do not have restrictions of what I can or cannot speak about.

But let's just say in general, that Westerners cloak "Shamanism" with a kind of "mysticism" it does not have, as though "Shamanism" was something above and beyond and separate from ordinary every-day reality.  From my personal upbringing point of view, on the very basic grass-roots-level, "entering into a shamanic worldview" is about how you do relate to ordinary everyday reality. 
 
Westerners, from my point of view relate to ordinary everyday reality differently.

A.R.