NAFPS Forum

Stumbled on some things on Ms. Fisher. Some accounts I'd read claimed she was Mexican, these sources say she's actually Jewish. Plus some ties I didn't know about, to Wm Anderson and to pseudo-Black Indian groups with some pretty out there names.

There was an online exchange between an AIM member, Sheila Anderson Lewis, and our old enemy "turtleheart".
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007811369
From: "Sheila Anderson-Lewis" <magickrn@ec.rr.com>
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 06:36:09 -0500
References: <14.1eef4625.2942de34@cs.com>

Very true. We have checked her out on our frauds (expose) list before. She is a prime fake, and a number one conartist!!!!!

Blessings
Sheila
----- Original Message -----
From: <Turtleheart@cs.com>
To: <CHEROKEE-L@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2001 10:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!

> In a message dated 12/7/01 3:17:05 PM Central Standard Time, wb@wvi.com
> writes:
> > Then I offer this link
> > http://www.geocities.com/newechota2/
> >
> > It will prove interesting.
> > Dan
> >
> I see that the fraud Diane Fisher (aka Dhyani Ywahoo) has a prominent place in that listing. She is a well known plastic fake. She purports to be linked to the Eastern Band, but no one there knows her. In the past, others have contacted her family and they can't understand what she is doing, as they are of the Jewish religion.
>
> She is an excellent example of what type person to avoid, and she claims for herself every red flag to be wary of:
> She charges for all instructions.
> Founded Sunray Meditation Society (new age cult).
> Claims: 27th Generation Holder of the Ywahoo Cherokee Lineage.
> Chief, Green Mountain Band of Eastern Cherokee.
> Cherokee Pipe Carrier.
> She claims her Ywahoo lineage was founded by a
> legendary prophet named The Pale One (which is based on Jesus Christ).
> She claims she was taught secrets by elders and
that she is a Medicine Elder herself.
She is a Senior Teacher of Tibetan Buddhist
Vajrayana Practices.
> She can't speak the Cherokee language.
> ////////////////////////

> If anyone has her new age, Buddist/ Hindu/ Cherokee book, do yourself a favor and drop kick that dude right out your home!
> That lady is not a Twinkie, really not even newage. She is a con, a fraud and will take your money (no checks please) and you will be left
with nothing of value.
> WARNING, WARNING WILL ROBINSON!
> Jim Burnes

A scam by another of the Fishers.
-----
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007853026
From: TJIM1460@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:10:26 EST

this woman has been around for years, she claims her son is the reincarnated dali lama. her cousin is a fake cherokee spiritual leader in ohio. the
cherokee in n.c. are looking for him for fraudulently collecting funds for the boys club. i can't remember his name, he now works for the council of
churches in columbus, ohio. he was involved with oliver collins, barbara crandell and several others in portsmouth, ohio. dwani herself claims to be one of the councils of the united nations.
tesha

And finally the "Black Indian Inn" run by one of her followers. They even made a bid for respectability by hosting an evneing of old spirituals that managed to fool a state congressman and a city councilman from Boston.

-----
http://www.blackindianinn.com/bii/page.php?pageKey=2
Fire Keeper, Ebony Third Arrow, a.k.a. David EbonyAllen Barkley is the maternal Great grandson of Holy Women Sally (Sarah) Fisher and Paternal Great grandson of Abner Smith. He is the third son born to Rev. Ardell and Sarah Barkley Jr. Under Principal Chief Dhyani Ywahoo, with Home Fire at Odali Utugi (Peace Village) in Lincoln, Vermont. Ebony Third Arrow is a member of the Green Mountain Band of Aniyunwiwa and leads Tsalagi (Cherokee) meditation as passed down through the Ywahoo linage. All initial meditation session are held every Wednesday 7:30 P.M. - 9:00 P.M. at Central Congregational Church corner of Elm St. and Seaverns St. Jamaica Plain. All are welcome. The Black Indian Inn hosts New Moon Sacred Fire for Green Mountain Band / Sunray members and seasoned practitioners by invitation.

http://www.blackindianinn.com/bii/page.php?pageKey=3
With Special Guests
Former Massachusetts Rep Melvin King,
METCO Exec. Dir, Jean McGuire
Boston City Councilor Chuck Turner

Almost forgot a post from alt.native that talks about several other ties, including to Anderson.
-----

tlagiloi   Oct 5 2003, 10:11 pm     show options  

Newsgroups: alt.native
From: tlagiloi <tlagi...@netscape.net>
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 23:16:47 -0600
Local: Sun, Oct 5 2003 10:16 pm  
Subject: Re: Word to many here. Don't be judgmental.
Reply | Reply to Author | Forward | Print | Individual Message | Show original | Report Abuse  

this wohali char.......
it could be connected with william scott "runningbull" anderson
who changed his name to blue otter.....that had a wovoka.com website.....
total twink.........and a fed troublemaker to boot........
he also thought real highly of diane fisher a.k.a. dyhani ywahoo.......
another fakeroo crystal guru
this red eagle probably came to the ngs fishing/trolling for the
unsuspecting groupie....
there was a red eagle named mohammed that hung with diane fisher for a
while.......
and j.t. garret........yeeeeeesh....they are endless...........
could be the same person.......but probably just another nutbar with the
same
made up name.......
tlagiloi

I am so glad to see all this info on Fisher. I read that book years ago. She mixes so much stuff up, littles pieces stolen from this or that. The sacred creation story, which she muddles up, is not put in writing or told to non-Cherokees, at least I was taught this. Then she has a smattering of Catholicism thrown in. The 9 phases of hell she talks about, hmmm, the nine gates of hell.

I would like to know what any of you think about J.T. Garrett and Michael Garrett, one of them claims to be a medicine man. They have now written many ,  many books about sacred Cherokee ways. Much of what they talk about is new age white wash stuff. Some esstential teachings are completely wrong. One is that they refer to the Sun as Grandfather. In my 47 years of being alive I have not heard a Cherokee refer to the Sun as anything other than Grandmother, except those that have learned their culture at powwows.

Anyway, they make references and quote Ywahoo in thier books. They speak of her in friendly and familiar terms.

Anyone know anything about these two? (sorry I should have started a new topic maybe)

Joseph

I'm not surew what to make of the Garretts. As far as I know there haven't been any other complaints against them. They were talked about in an earlier version of NAFPS, but mainly if it was proper to reveal what they reveal in their books.

This is what I found on the son:
http://www.appalachianbooks.com/Authors.htm#Michael%20Garrett
"Michael Garrett (b. 1970) grew up in Cherokee, North Carolina, attended Guilford College, and received a masters in counseling and a Ph.D. in counselor education at the University of North Carolina at Greensboro. He is currently an assistant professor of counselor education at the University of North Carolina at Charlotte."

The father is actually an advisor to Ywahoo's cult in Vermont.
http://www.sunray.org/Council/council.html

And here's a discussion of what the Garretts claim about crystals.
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-07/0995372887

Joseph, you may know the most of anyone here just what's wrong with what the Garretts claim. What else struck you as wrong abut them?

A few more things about the Garretts.

When they talk of the Circle they talk about going clockwise. My teachings and those of most lay Cherokee that I know is that it is counter clockwise, like most of our dances. Clockwise movements when discussing medicine are sometimes used on purpose but not within the context that they present it.

They also use a Christianized version about how woman was created from man. That a corn stalk grew out of the man as a gift from Creator.

The line in thier first book about how this is all they are allowed to reveal, well, to me it sounds like a setup for a sequel, of which there have been quite a few now.

Thier talk of crystals is vague and new age sounding. And not all  Cherokee healers use crystals. Thier talk about herbs could have been lifted from any herbal book.

And thier thing about the medicine wheel. Well traditionally us Cherokee don't have a medicine wheel like other tribes do. And the colors they call the directions are correct, red-east, blue-north, black-west, and white-south but in ceremony other colors are used of which only a properly trained healer would know.

Any one of us could have wwritten these books while sitting in front of our computers and accessing the internet.

The book Walking on the Wind, the one written just by Michael Garrett it like a bumper sticker platitude saying. He tries to write like he is an Elder and he is only 34. He also has Ywahoo (I love how that looks like Yahoo) listed in the bibliography. I can't find the other books they wrote on my shelf. I have them strictly for reference not to believe or follow.  

All in all, when I read the first two books they did not ring true. Just a feeling, along with little slip ups on thier part.

Joseph

I was talking to a Cherokee friend/Elder of mine and I asked him if he has visited NAFPS. He said he has, a few weeks back, and he read the stuff about Fisher. He told me that it has been general knowledge among a lot of Cherokee that she is a fraud. He said he was dissappointed that there was nothing about the Garrets. I asked him why and he did not answer (a typical negative response from an Elder or someone of his generations). After a few moments of silence he asked if I had read the books. I said I had read a few of them. He then just looked at me with a look saying "well there is your anwer".

To those in charge of the forum I apologize for starting new topics under another. Should I copy this Garrett stuff over to maybe Research Needed topic?

I wouldn't worry about it Joseph. Going off on a different direction in a thread is no big deal.

I think we can do something pretty simple about the lack of warnings on the Garretts. How about we let your post that starts "A few more things" be a warning on NAFPS.net? If there's anything you want to add to it to make it a more effective warning, I'd be interested to see. That could include any statements or comments you want to include from elders you've spoke with about this, that is if it's OK with them.

That would be fine. If you could also include a paragraph from my first posting about the Sun and Moon references. To me these are very important. We are one of the few tribes that refer to the Sun as our Grandmother and this has always been the giveaway as to someone who does not know what they are talking about. Before you post let me contact a few Elders and see if they would like to add some comments. I will let you know what I have asap.

Joseph

Well the one Eleder did think there was anymore to add. He just shook his head in a dusgusted way and from what I know of him I would be smart not to ask again.

A few other things. Micheal Garrett has listed in his bibliography Ywahoo's book and also Sun Bear's book "Walk in Balance". Using fraudulent resources doesn't speak highly of him.

In Garrett's book "Walking on the Wind" the first chapter is called Sun and Moon. It a story about Sun and Moon. A reader would assume that since Garrett is supposed to be Cherokee that this is a Cherokee story, which it is not. No reference to what tribe it comes from is given.

He takes so much from many different tribes and combines them into this book; things from the Lakota, Pawnee, Cherokee.

There is too much to write here but it is an ammalgamation of all sorts of self-help books, pan tribal beliefs, quotes from long ago that is reall does misrepresent Cherokee belief and philosophy. It seems it was written with the nuager and profits in mind.

If you need more detail, let me know and I will try. The books say that they (father and son) grew up on the Cherokee Reservation in NC but does not make reference as to whether thet are enrolled or not.

Sylvia, in the thread on John Colbert/Pushican/Lightning Bear, said this:

"I found the info about Dhyani Ywahoo (and then some, googling her name together with "fraud"). Considering that I went to the Sunray's annual "Elder Gathering" for the last three years, I guess I haven't changed that much. *LOL* What a disappointment.

What I don't understand is that Native Americans -- and other indigenous people -- who seemed to be very sincere to me, can associate with that woman.

At the Elders Gathering, for example, there's always one Abenaki GM, Nanatasis Bluto-Delventhal, who seems very traditional; she usually does moontime teachings for women there. No fancy New Age content... only oral teachings, nothing written down... she says she doesn't take any money for teachings, ever... only asks that participants help to pay her expenses if she has to travel so that she at least doesn't LOSE money.

...among the other "regulars" at the Elders Gathering are Mayan elders from Guatemala; a very quirky and childlike GM from Mexico who is just wonderful; Mike Bastine (Iroquois), who spent some time traveling with the late Mad Bear, and GF Warren Ramey (forget what nation he was from).

Both Mike and Warren are very interested in "nuage" stuff as well -- from earth mysteries and earth changes to ascension of consciousness, 2012, etc. Then again, they have never claimed that what they're talking about are pure, traditional Native American teachings, nor have they ever claimed that they are in any way or shape representing their tribes, and I think as long as they don't, it's totally fine."


Problem is, I doubt they are who they say they are, at least some of them.

Mad Bear Anderson was widely considered to be a fraud himself, so Bastine is at least suspect, not the least for calling himself Iroquois. That's not a tribe, it's the outsider's term for Haudenosaunee or Longhouse (including non-Iroquois like myself who use the term.)

Almost all the ones Sylvia mentioned come up here, and at very few other places on the net.
http://www.sunray.org/20th_Native_American_Elders__G/20th_native_american_elders__g.html
"NANATASIS BLUTO-DELVENTAL, ABENAKI

Turtle Clan Mother/ Abenaki
Sits as Elder on several Councils in Vermont & Nationally
Shares Abenaki Turtle Clan Moontime Teachings with women
Healer who works with herbs, massage therapy, Reiki, & Therapeutic Touch
Involved with Ceremonies & Counsels people"

I did find a Cheryl Bluto Delvental who is Abenaki. She's part of an Abenaki band. While they're not frauds, the Abenaki band is relatively recently created, in the 1970s.

"MIKE BASTINE, ALGONQUIN

Mike is from outside Buffalo New York, but his ancestors are Algonquin from Maniwaki, Quebec. As a child, most of his time was spent observing and relating to the natural world. Then meeting up with Mad Bear, Tuscarora Indian traditional teacher, a great blend of worlds began."

There's that lie. mad Bear was not at all traditional.

"Mike's Algonquin birthright flavored with the Iroquois wisdom through Mad Bear, has inspired Mike to speak his knowledge."

So he's identifies as Algonquin but is claiming to teach Iroquois ways from a Tuscarora wo was very non traditional.

"TATA RICARDO & NANA JUANA, CENTRAL AMERICAN

Tata Ricardo Maye, following his father and grandfather as Tata, is Priest and Spiritual Guide for the Indigenous people of Central America and the Caribbean."

Amazing! Spiritual leader for all the Maya, Taino, Carib, Miskoto Garifuna, and dozens of other tribes in a whole region?

"Nana Juana Escobar is the Priestess of the Nahuat Pipiles of El Salvador, Central America."

Priestess for an entire nation with millions of NDNs? Yet they have time to sell ceremonies to whites in Vermont?

"ABUELA MARGUERITTA NUNEZ-GARCIA, MEXICO

...Abuela Margarita belongs to the Native Council of Elders of America and has participated in numerous aboriginal gatherings in Mexico, Brazil, Peru, the United States, Canada, and Europe. She takes part in the Sundance, Earthdance, Moondance, and other ceremonies, including sweat lodges and vision quests on a regular basis."

I don't see any description at all of who her people are. "Mexico", with tens of millions of NDNs and hundreds of tribes, is a pretty vague claim.

Another one that Sylvia mentioned and that is on Fisher's site, Warren "Redwing" Ramsey:

At Fisher's site he's listed as Tsalagi. In older discussion in here, the Cherokees in here mention that's usually a label people who've recently discovered their Cherokee ancestry are far more likely to use. Cherokees raised in the culture generally call themselves Cherokee.

From this article:
http://archive.theargus.co.uk/2002/9/23/149732.html
"Elders Momfeather Kaelble Erickson and Grandfather Warren Redwing Ramey, leaders of the Southern Band of the Cherokee"

There are about half a dozen outfits calling themselves some variation of Southern Cherokee, most with dubious histories, and recently formed.

Another mention of him:
http://www.route-one.com/GetDayEvents.asp?Month=November&day=18&year=2006&weekday=7
"Coping with Sudden Earth Changes
Saturday, November 18 1-5 p.m. The Turquoise Marble Teaching Center and Grandfather Warren Redwing Ramey will be presenting Coping with Sudden Earth Changes by Dwight Sands. Learn strategies and techniques to feed yourself and stay warm and dry during possible disruptions of our normal food and energy supplies."

That sounds closer to a survivalist seminar.

Sylvia also mentioned "Mayan elders" which is also how Fisher's site describes several people. That sounds more like an outsider's description. Mayans are several dozen languages and thousands of communities across half a dozen countries. A Mayan elder would be more likely to say they are a Quiche from village X.

In Latin America, it's a common scam for mestizos to pose as NDN elders to fleece white Americans and Europeans of their money. I don't know for certain what those IDd as Mayan elders are. Short of contacting people in whatever communities they claim, it's hard to say. Since net access is almost nonexistent. Heck, most don't even have running water. That's part of why many exploiters have begun targeting Latin American traditions, they're less able to fight back.

I'd like to add some fodder on Dhyani Ywahoo. After reading up on her here and various other websites, I decided that I needed information from a truly authoritative and unbiased source on her, so I wrote an email to the website www.cherokee.org, which seems to be the official website of the Cherokee Nation (correct me if I'm wrong).

Here's what I got from them:

*********************************

Subject: Dhyani Ywahoo

Hello,

I would like to ask a few questions about the legitimacy of Dhyani
Ywahoo. She is the leader of the Sunray Society in Lincoln, VT. She
claims that she is the elected Peacekeeper of the Cherokee in the 28th
(or so) generation, that she is of the Wild Potato clan, and that she is
the keeper of the sacred pipe for the Cherokee.

I found very unflattering information on Dhyani Ywahoo on the NAFPS
website (www.newagefrauds.org) and on other websites; it was said that
her legitimacy is denied by the Cherokee Elders Council and that they
want nothing to do with her. I'm just wondering if that info is correct;
if it is, I would like to know since I've been attending her annual
Elders Gatherings, and if she is a fraud, I want nothing to do with her.
It's hard, though, to find an official source to get truly unbiased
information on the Internet.

Could you help me out here, please? Thanks in advance!

REPLY:

Ms. J...,

I have received numerous inquiries about the woman who calls herself
Dhyani Ywahoo.  There is no such thing as an "elected peacekeeper" or a
woman "pipecarrier."  The notion of a pipecarrier comes from the Lakota
culture.  Any Cherokee may own a pipe.  There is sacred ceremonial pipe
but it is kept and associated with the traditional spiritual leaders
known to the Cherokee people.

I have her book, Voices of Our Ancestors in which she makes some
fantastic claims.  The book has nothing to do with Cherokee culture.
She is pictured on that book holding an eagle feather and wooden (or
gourd) rattle. The eagle feather and the rattle are male implements and
would not be carried by women.  Cherokee women have their own implements or artifacts if you prefer such as the turtle shells worn during the traditional dances.  So, in answer to your question, there is nothing
legitimate about this woman. She is a fraud.

Also, we have no Cherokee Elders Council.  There is a group who used to
call themselves that but they would be considered as similar to a club.

Dr. Richard L. Allen
Policy Analyst
Cherokee Nation
P.O. Box 948
Tahlequah, Oklahoma 74465
(918) 453-5466

******************

Note: The thing with the Elders Council was obviously my bad; I thought it was an official institution.

Found this. Apparently this mainstream peace organization got taken in by her. I've written to them in hopes of helping them realize they are making a huge mistake, giving a platform to an imposter and cult leader.

http://peaceweek.info/

Everyone please take a few minutes to warn them. Go to support@peaceweek.info.

Yeah, I know they've also got the 13 Grandmothers there. But the issue with them has always been how the group's founder, Jyoti, is using them to make herself seem legit, rather than the ladies themselves. It seems to me having Fisher there is far worse, and is something we can and should try to stop.

Quote from: educatedindian on December 07, 2004, 03:53:51 AM
A scam by another of the Fishers.
-----
http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/read/CHEROKEE/2001-12/1007853026
From: TJIM1460@aol.com
Subject: Re: [Cherokee Circle] YOHEWA - Dhyani Ywahoo Fraud Alert!
Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2001 18:10:26 EST

this woman has been around for years, she claims her son is the reincarnated dali lama. her cousin is a fake cherokee spiritual leader in ohio. the
cherokee in n.c. are looking for him for fraudulently collecting funds for the boys club. i can't remember his name, he now works for the council of
churches in columbus, ohio. he was involved with oliver collins, barbara crandell and several others in portsmouth, ohio. dwani herself claims to be one of the councils of the united nations.
tesha

Uhm no, not quite. From what I can see, she (Pema Sangzin Khandro is her teaching name, pointing to quite advanced realizations) is quite established in the Drikung Kagyu lineage, and her son was recognized as a tulku (reincarnated lama) by Chetsang Rinpoche, the head of the lineage. (The Dalai Lama is in quite another lineage) She founded the vajra dakini nunnery as a drikung kagyu practice center. And for all intents and purposes, Khenmo Drolma (Khenpo is an abbot, Khenmo the female word for abbot) who leads it, is the business. Studied with good teachers, like Pema Chodron at Gampopa Abbey for instance) Her longest retreat is five months though, which seems a bit odd. Three years is standard. I also think it's strange that she has only studied extensively with Pema Chodron, not with other teachers from the Drikung lineage except Chetsang Rinpoche himself.

I don't know much about Drikung Kagyu, but I do know that Tulku recognitions are not an indication of someone having "divine" qualities, but are often a way to get a center established or to preserve a lineage. Recognizing her as a "khandro" and her son as a Tulku tied the nunnery to the Drikung lineage, which must have been important tot Chetsang Rinpoche. I find the range of practices somewhat limited: although they also offer Padmasambhava practice, but that may be anything. They're practices of an elementary nature and not entirely in keeping with the depth of the tradition that she says is her lineage.