NAFPS Forum

Okay, I have a question. ? All over America and Canada Natives have things to sell. ? Jewellry, clothing, (especially, around here anyway, moccasins), and, most noticeably, music. ? We are constantly surrounded by it. ? Personally, I don't mind, I like it... and I buy it. ?

These are sold legitimately by Native Americans/Canadians, usually only available by going directly to the seller or a shop that may be on the reserve, although music is more generally available. ?

My question is this, how can we NOT be influenced by the culture of Native Americans/Canadians? ? How can we then NOT be interested to know more? ? I buy Native music all the time, I take it home and I listen to it...a lot....I like....a lot. ? It is impossible for me to not be influenced by it. ? ?

Then there is also the "sacred" objects that are not sold but given. ? I have a dreamcatcher that was made by a Native Canadian, and blessed by a Native Elder, especially for me. ? How can I ignore the spiritual significance of this? ? I can't. ? It means too much to me. ? Do I use it correctly? ? Yes....it's NOT hanging from my rear view window of the car! ?

BTW...I am NOT talking about the make-a-buck-hucksters on the web, I am talking about legitimately crafted and sold items.

Ganieda,

In answer to the first part:

"My question is this, how can we NOT be influenced by the culture of Native Americans/Canadians?  How can we then NOT be interested to know more?  I buy Native music all the time, I take it home and I listen to it...a lot....I like....a lot.  It is impossible for me to not be influenced by it. "

Influenced and interested to know more, is one thing that I don't think any of us would look down upon.  We encourage people to find out who we really are, and not the stereotype, that people percieve us as. That is not, seeing crafts, believing there is some magical power and mystery behind them that you then want to get involved with.

I meet other natives, visit their homes, have an interest in them and their tribe, but I would never dream of asking them questions of their beliefs, or sacred things. Should I be invited to a ceremony of some sort, all well and good, if I thought it was appropriate and right for me.

If you want to see ceremony, go visit a native pow wow. Yes, a pow wow is a ceremony, ( That will surprise some of our readers ), have a great day socialising and go home safe. So why the need to want to take part in other things, especially when they are fake.

Your other point:

"Then there is also the "sacred" objects that are not sold but given.  I have a dreamcatcher that was made by a Native Canadian, and blessed by a Native Elder, especially for me.  How can I ignore the spiritual significance of this?  I can't.  It means too much to me.  Do I use it correctly?  Yes....it's NOT hanging from my rear view window of the car! "

A sacred gift. well you can call it sacred to yourself, to me it would be special.  To receive any gift is significant, and special, likewise to give a gift, if it is for the right reasons.

Well thats my take on it

i think it would be a shame NOT to be able to influence people for the better. but that is not the same as someone taking things they have no right to and selling them, be it ceremony or sacred objects.
there are universal values in native beliefs such as not causing harm to others, respect for people and the earth, doing good for those in need, and helping without expecting anything in return. these things are not unique to native culture. so why not take the values and fit them into your own life? it does not require anyone to play ndn.
i listen to many types of music myself, including classical but...i don't feel a need to wear a powdered wig and knickers or a hooped dress. silly yes...but seems when it comes to ndn people it becomes credible in some peoples' eyes.

Quotethere are universal values in native beliefs such as not causing harm to others, respect for people and the earth, doing good for those in need, and helping without expecting anything in return. these things are not unique to native culture. so why not take the values and fit them into your own life?

Exactly. ? These values are global, (or should be), and that is what "most" of us are trying to do. ? There are, unfortunately, others who do not see it that way and often those are the ones who get the most "press". ? So then, we ALL get tarnished with the same brush and it is THAT, that I am objecting to. ?

I don't play ndn, NEVER....the only thing I MIGHT do, if invited to a Native function would be to wear a piece of jewellry that was a gift from someone also attending. ? I do admit to bringing along my drum, (also a gift), ....but only if I'm asked to. ? I make one other concession to these events. ? I always wear a dress that is long enough to cover the legs. ? I don't know about traditions in the US, but here where I am, it is considered repectful. ?

QuoteShould I be invited to a ceremony of some sort, all well and good, if I thought it was appropriate and right for me.

Yes, I have recently been checking out a sweat lodge ceremony to which I have been repeatedly invited. ? Mostly I wanted to understand any specific "protocol" just so I would not accidently be dis-respectful. ? While asking a few questions I discovered some things about this particular ceremony that just do not sit well with me and have declined the invitation. ? Needless to say, I have lost some friends because of this. ? They do not have any problem with the way the lodge is done, but I know that some things there are not legitimate/authentic so I don't go. ?

Now, the only way for me to know that the ceremony done in this manner was not authentic, (and possibly dangerous), was to ask someone I trusted....more correctly, I asked permission to ask them. ? Sometimes you do need to ask, but it must be asked correctly. ? Meanwhile, I will attend the powwows and open dances, enjoy myself immensly and go home. ? BTW, even powwows have "protocol" and not all the Nations/Tribes etc are the same. ? Check into it before stepping into kaka!

Quotei listen to many types of music myself, including classical but...i don't feel a need to wear a powdered wig and knickers or a hooped dress. silly yes...but seems when it comes to ndn people it becomes credible in some peoples' eyes.

This is my whole argument about PowWow's that they put on here in the UK...

I find them at least disconcerting, and blatantly racist in the extreme.  :o
The white people I know who are heavily into African music would NEVER think of dressing as a Masai warrior and doing a ceremony or a dance....but it's accepted for non-Natives to put on a PowWow (which, as Piya pointed out in another thread, IS a ceremony). Not just here, but in Germany, Belgium and probably quite a few EU countries.

The more someone like Al comes over and puts their heads straight, the more enlightened they will become (hopefully!)

bobby