NAFPS Forum

QuoteCan we be realistic.There is no such thing as a sovereign nation within the US, that is just a label.

QuoteThe Lakota have triedtodo that and ifyou accept the BIA control you are hardly an alien

Of Course there is.  Indian Nations are soverign, the US goverment merely recognizes that.  In other words, the US DOES NOT grant soverignty, is just recognizes it.  Indian Nations don't have the military power to contest the US goverment, so they have to take the best deal avaliable to them. 

QuoteSorry but the only sovereignty that the Cherokee Nation had was treason to the rest of the to the majority of American states called the Union with whom they did have a treaty.

And how many Treatys did the Federal Goverment break with the Cherokee Nation. 

QuoteIf anyone believes that tribes should truly be sovereign send back your passports, refuse to accept any aid or welfare from any American government agency and have an members of the US military resign.

Indian Nations don't get welfare.  They get services because of Treatys.  The US got the better end of the agreement, would'nt you say.  All blacks, whites and other non Indians are living on land that belongd to Indian Naitons not so long ago. 

And you really have some nerve calliing NDN nations treasonous considering the history.  NDN Nations ARE America.  I have Cherokee relatives ( warriors) that gave their life for this country in battle ( WW2 and Viet Nam ).  And everyone knows that NDNS serve in the US Armed forces at a higher percentage then any ethnic group. 

Yeah, the 1866 Treaty was imposed on the CN.  So if you want to enforce this, how bout the other 15 or so that were broken.  I'm sure the CN wouldn't have a problem getting its territory back in Georgia, and the SE.  Ok, if you want to enforce the 1866 Teaty.  How bout going back to the treaty of Hopewell. 

Another thing.  You spend a lot of time speaking out againts White Cherokees and their BQs.  Which is all well and good if thats your opinion.  But how can you support "black people" ( as opposed to black Cherokees ) in the CN.  And granted, yeah, there were some freedmen that I agree were not put on "Cherokee by blood" rolls.  But even these people probably only have just a little Cherokee blood like their low BQ white counterparts.  So Maybe these black Cherkees have the 1/256 BQ like you always mention. 

So my question is.   and by judging from your comments.  I'd like to know how can you be againts white Cherkoees enrolling, but not againts "black people", and Black Cherkokees that can't prove their heritage from enrolling?

I'd just like to add, that I personally support "Black Cherokees".  But I distinguish black Cherokees from "black people".  I don't have nothing agains non NDNS, but I beleive you should have Cherokee blood to be Cherokee.   

Black wolf I agree with you you must have native blood to be native

Don,

I can't help but to think how hypocritical you were being in this thread, and how some of it almost seemed racist in nature, even though I know you are not racist.

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:The US Congress has the right to end recognition, because it represents all of the people, and the majority of black citizens support the Watson bill

This is hypocritical of you in a major way. Would it be okay with you if congress decided to end recognition because the majority of white people felt Indian tribes were "something of the past," and that they should not receive anything that other Americans don't get?

It would be pretty racist and ignorant if such a thing happened huh?

Why are not the majority of black people voicing anger about the thousands of tribal members in places like California who are getting dis enrolled?

Why is Watson not saying anything about it either, especially when a great deal of it is in her own back yard in California???

I am sure if you asked her about that, she would probably mention the treaty of 1866 in the same breathes as how the tribes have the right to determine their own membership; as if the two issues were not related.

It's sad when things always must be a black vs white issue, especially in Indian country, where most issues get ignored by the general public.

Indian people whom at times are damn near full blooded get dis-enrolled all the time, and not too much is said or done about it. Then the Cherokee nation might dis-enroll the freedmen, and the CBC gets up in arms?

Where is the CBC when it comes do dis-enrollments in Watson's own back yard???

Seems to me you are just playing racial politics here, and little of that seems to be caring for NDN people.

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:BTW I support the Watson Bill because I be;ieve that the CNO is in violation of the the 1866 treaty and should not receive any taxes from the federal government.

The United States is in violation of hundreds upon hundreds of treaties, and yet you wish a tribe to be terminated because it decided to use it's right to determine whom it's own members are going to be?

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:  Or pay the descendants reparations and let them have the same stautus as Indians or to return to Africa where they have been offered Ghanian citizenship.

What if they really do not have Indian blood, then what? Why does an NDN tribe need to pay reparations for slavery when the United States never did?

Why should only those people of African descent who descend from slaves of NDN nations be given some sort of reparations if the no other African Americans are???

Why should African Americans be paid reparations by the US government, when it is obvious by the conditions in NDN country that they have never been paid to NDN people, promises have been not kept, and holy places are still occupied and being desecrated

Yet the Cherokee are targeted by Watson and the CBC for termination for dis-enrolling some black people that may not even have NDN blood.

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:Your country not mine but lets be realistic this is not the 19th century, what wilL lhappenin the future NOT IN THE PAST.It appears that no one thinks about the future but lives in the past..

More hypocrisy on your part Don.

You have pointed out several instances on how you believe NDN nations are not sovereign because of past events, and yet slavery was a thing of the "past," was it not???

So you tell everyone here to think about the future, which of course means the present would have a great deal of bearing on that.

All this, while hypocritically you wish to see a tribe terminated for no longer wanting to recognize a certain group of people because of their forced membership into the tribe based on something "from the past."

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:Because the Watson Bill is about justice for people who have been segregated, discriminated against, are denied what was guaranteed to them and their descendants        

Oh really?

Again, where is the voice of Watson when it comes to dis-enrollments in her own back yard?

Where is the voice of the Watson, the CBC, and all these black people you speak of when it comes to the very same issues you pointed such as discrimination when it comes to NDN people?

Where is the voice of Watson, the CBC, and all these black people when holy places like the Black Hills, San Francisco Peak, Mt. Graham, and thousands of others  places that have the same significance to NDN people as the Vatican does to Catholics, and even when they have more spiritual and culture value to NDN's  then the Vatican does to Catholics are being still occupied, desecrated, and destroyed?

QuoteDon Naconna wrote:That's a double standard based on race.

Oh but of course it is......... It is the same thing as always in the US..... A black and white issue, and sadly even when it comes to an NDN issue.

Nobody in this country gives a damn about NDN's, and that is why when Watson made the first version of her bill, she was going to make to every single tribe in the US get their funding cut off.

heh, I guess all NDN's are the same in her eyes huh??

Yup, it's all a double standard based on race on this issue.....................................

I posted these links in the slavery dissusion regarding the Freemen Issue. 

http://freedmen.cherokee.org/Portals/13/Docs/Briefing%20on%20History%20and%20Cases.pdf

http://freedmen.cherokee.org/SummaryofCitizenshipIssue/tabid/372/Default.aspx
http://freedmen.cherokee.org/HistoryofFreedmenDescendants/tabid/724/Default.aspx


Treaty of 1866 in its entirety
http://digital.library.okstate.edu/KAPPLER/VOL2/treaties/che0942.htm

http://www.cornsilks.com/HR2761-newwatson.html
This is the Watson Bill update...