NAFPS Forum

Peter Webster" <peterweb@bendnet.com> ?
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:56:36 -0700
Subject: Re: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Re: Red Elk
 ?  ?
Secunda's been around for quite a while. If he's Ndn I'll eat the editorial
page of your daily newspaper. I once had a counseler who had studied under
somebody who had studied with Secunda. She was an insightful woman; she had
a sweat lodge in the backyard of her suburban house in Vancouver WA. That's
as close as I ever came to Secunda. His web page has all sorts of peyote
symbols, of course. That's the attraction, I think. The Don Juan-ism.
There's another guy like him who's from AZ or NM but who claims to be a
Mayan shaman. What it is, I think, is that there are certain "tricks" that
people can learn. Like mind-fucks, to break "clients" or "consumers" or
"pigeons" out of their traditional stuck thought patterns. There was some
Russian guy who was real popular...can't remember his name--used to have
his rich clients out digging ditches and then jumping back and forth across
them...You play enough mind games with the willing and vulnerable, and
pretty soon you can claim to be a "shaman."


>Being a breed doesn't matter so much, I think. At least around where>I live. The person who is likely to have stuff taught to them, is the
>one who is willing to learn. But Blue Otter is William Scott, another>fraud.
>
>That reminds me, what do you think of that Brant Secunda guy? ? Claims>to be a Huichol shaman.
>
http://www.shamanism.com/secunda.html
>
>--- In newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "Bryant"
>
><bryanth@p...> wrote:
>> Billed as "-Red Elk-
>> -World's most famous medicine Man-" by "Blue Otter"
>> "Red Elk" has lots of disclaimers on his website where he is saying stuff to the effect of "I never sed I wuz a injun - so don't start!"
>
>> Here is an example: "NOTE TO ALL: Red Elk goes by HIS givin ceramonial name, he is NOT a "Mr. " Red Elk etc.. Also Red Elk is a
>> breed...not a fullblood, and plainly states so."
http://www.redelk.net/website
>> I am sure that you have already investigated and analyzed this guy
>> before, Al. Is he really all that significant?
>> Bryant

Bryant" <bryanth@presidiotex.com>  Add to Address Book
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:13:39 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans]
    
He appears to be doing something that is common these days, which is using language that can later be used as the basis for a disclaimer without actually making the disclaimer forthwith. He is billed as "a shaman, healer and ceremonial leader in the Huichol Indian tradition of Mexico." He claims that he "completed a 12-year apprenticeship
with Don Jose Matsuwa, the renowned shaman, who died in 1990 at the age of 110", which is something that could probably be investigated
if one were to go down there and have the proper sort of entree in order be able to interview people there and see what the facts are.
Since he is, at the same time, selling their arts and crafts, they might be unwilling to burst the guy's bubble. However, he would not be the first or only dubious looking character to have claimed to
have been initiated into their culture and religion. There is another guy, another of "Blue Otter's" buddies, a certain Jaime Perez, of El Paso, Texas, who also claims to be a Huichol "shaman". One reason people are so drawn to Huicholes, I think, is because they use peyote, and this has a big attraction for drug users, following in
the tradition that Castaneda modeled after the legacy of his hero Tim Leary. In addition, they are highly accessible. They like to cater to new agers, because they do so in order to augment their arts and crafts sales. I know this because I interviewed a woman who had spent a lot of time down there with them, and she knew most of the Americans who had spent any time there also, and she was very erudite, and I asked, I think, all of the right questions, and I got a lot of important background on this matter from her. I did all of
this after having carefully analyzed the whole world of this Jaime Perez guy and all of his pretentions and the environment into which
it is framed. I would love to just go down there and investigate all of this stuff myself, because I usually have a pretty easy time getting curanderos to open up to me, be they Mexicans or Indians (in
Mexico, that is). The ones who are the actual leaders of their community are friendly with one of my contacts, Antonio Vazquez, a Tarahumara curandero who spent some time with them at an event organized to get indigenous curanderos together from all over Mexico.
See http://www.ojinaga.com/tara/curandero/index3.html

So, this person, Mr. Secunda, is careful not to claim that he is an actual Huichol or a member of their religion, either. But that is not entirely clear, of course. He is like so many of these types, looking
for ways to have his cake and to eat it, too.

Bryant "El brujito de mentiritas" Holman
http://curanderismo.net
"Mientras haigan pendejos habrán vivos"

--- In
newagefraudsplastichshamans@yahoogroups.com, "debbieredbear2000"
<debbieredbear2000@y...> wrote:
> Being a breed doesn't matter so much, I think. At least around where > I live. The person who is likely to have stuff taught to them, is the > one who is willing to learn. But Blue Otter is William Scott, another > fraud.
>
> That reminds me, what do you think of that Brant Secunda guy?  Claims > to be a Huichol shaman.
>
> http://www.shamanism.com/secunda.html

Bryant" <bryanth@presidiotex.com>  
Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 20:32:39 -0000
Subject: [newagefraudsplastichshamans] Dándoles Huicholes con el dedo

    
"Chapter Three, The Marketing of Huichol Shamans

American youth, suffering from a crisis of meaning which became especially acute as the credibility of the "establishment" diminished in the mid-1960s, abandoned tangible political objectives to
pursue "tales of power," of a "supernatural" sort, disseminated by a disorganized group of collaborators interested in profiting from meeting the unmet demand for gurus and mysticism. The Delgado-Furst-Myerhoff version of Huichol culture was inherited, and is being passed on with little if any modification, by Prem Das, Brant Secunda, and others. Their version of Huichol culture and "shamanism" is the version known to today's New Age consumers.

Like Gordon Wasson, I am outraged by marketers who bastardize ancient rituals and cheapen the tremendous personal sacrifices, unbending
dedication, and humility required of bona fide Huichol and Native American healers and ritual specialists (those defined as "shamans").
My admiration for authentic aboriginal American ritual practitioners is what animates my criticism of those who prostitute and trivialize their teachings.

The curandero (healer) who today, for a big fee, will perform the mushroom rite for any stranger is a prostitute and faker, and his insincere performance has the validity of a rite put on by an unfrocked priest (Wasson 1972). (pages 136-137)

This expose may produce little change among consumers in the Huichol tributary of the New Age movement. For some, emotional needs for self-
transcendence (some will say escapism) and larger-then-life personalities may overpower the capacity for critical thinking. They may well be involved in constructing a quasi-religion, one originally
inspired by the charismatic Castaneda. The formation of this quasi-religion, one now being promoted by Castaneda partisans such as
Michael Harner, Prem Das, and Brant Secunda, is "at least as interesting as Moses, Wovoka, Joseph Smith ... the movements they inspired". The cultural crisis of the 1960s, which precipitated the
demand for gurus and shamans, and the complex relationship between contemporary New Age celebrities and consumers of their seminars on
shamanism, are part of a social movement worthy of further investigation. (page 144)"

http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/carlos_castaneda.html

Well actually Peter, she spent 7 years with the old guy,
Matsuwa. I don't know about the Peyote, but I heard a few songs, and they are rather pleasant to listen to. But I agree with the stuff about Secunda, a real exploiter. He makes a lot of money from those "teachings".   rebekah