NAFPS Forum

Tonight I was reading through some old threads, and found this post from Moma P that spoke to me. Maybe it will give some others I know some things to think about as well. I'm only re-posting part of it. The whole post is further up thread.

Quote from: Moma_porcupine on March 31, 2006, 01:53:34 PM

The way I understand this ( and I may be partly wrong  ) is that the Spiritual teachings and
traditions , which maintain the moral and Spiritul health of a community , are not the same thing as traditional medicine used to shift something to a desired outcome.

As I understand it , in many Native traditions , "medicine" , beyond simple plant knowledge for physical health ,  is similar to non native magic or witchcraft.

People who work with medicine or magic are not necesaarily Spiritual people , and Spiritual
people are not always medicine people .

Spiritual teachings and traditions are very important to make sure any medicine or magic used
is directed in a wise and good way , and even the most knowledgeable Elders seem to be very
cautious about making any assumptions about how medicine will work .  That is one of the reasons
such great efforts are made to keep the Spiritual traditions and teachings entirely seperate
from of the allure and corrupting temptations of money and as Guss cals it "guruship".  

Medicine people who are not also mature Spiritual people tend to be dangerous .  

Mature Spirtual people do not use drugs and alcohol .

<snip>

In a traditional community , there is more than one Elder , so there is a better
balance of knowledge and power and also a peer group to notice if something is wrong .  Day to day life
with people who have known you all your life tends to keep peoples egos ground down to a
realistic size . Even with all these traditional safe guards some people practicre bad medicine
and some medicine goes different than expected .

Stuff to bear in mind when someone that may in other ways seem legit is living off the rez, doing ceremonies for people not of their culture, and who are flying free from any traditional system of checks and balances. Sometimes even good people can get seduced by money and fame, and harm themselves, and everyone around them, in the process.

Quote from: Defend the Sacred on October 26, 2008, 07:06:59 AM
Tonight I was reading through some old threads, and found this post from Moma P that spoke to me. Maybe it will give some others I know some things to think about as well. I'm only re-posting part of it. The whole post is further up thread.

Quote from: Moma_porcupine on March 31, 2006, 01:53:34 PM

The way I understand this ( and I may be partly wrong  ) is that the Spiritual teachings and
traditions , which maintain the moral and Spiritul health of a community , are not the same thing as traditional medicine used to shift something to a desired outcome.

As I understand it , in many Native traditions , "medicine" , beyond simple plant knowledge for physical health ,  is similar to non native magic or witchcraft.

People who work with medicine or magic are not necesaarily Spiritual people , and Spiritual
people are not always medicine people .

Spiritual teachings and traditions are very important to make sure any medicine or magic used
is directed in a wise and good way , and even the most knowledgeable Elders seem to be very
cautious about making any assumptions about how medicine will work .  That is one of the reasons
such great efforts are made to keep the Spiritual traditions and teachings entirely seperate
from of the allure and corrupting temptations of money and as Guss cals it "guruship". 

Medicine people who are not also mature Spiritual people tend to be dangerous . 

Mature Spirtual people do not use drugs and alcohol .

<snip>

In a traditional community , there is more than one Elder , so there is a better
balance of knowledge and power and also a peer group to notice if something is wrong .  Day to day life
with people who have known you all your life tends to keep peoples egos ground down to a
realistic size . Even with all these traditional safe guards some people practicre bad medicine
and some medicine goes different than expected .

Stuff to bear in mind when someone that may in other ways seem legit is living off the rez, doing ceremonies for people not of their culture, and who are flying free from any traditional system of checks and balances. Sometimes even good people can get seduced by money and fame, and harm themselves, and everyone around them, in the process.

You just described my Grandpop Buster completely. He started claiming he could cure cancer around his white followers. Then cancer killed him. It might be he cursed himself or it might be "karma" but when he was outside his people he became this "super" mete'u and his ego got larger than his  powers and his "little bird" stories became larger than both.

Peace- Rich

Quote from: Defend the Sacred on October 26, 2008, 07:06:59 AM
Tonight I was reading through some old threads, and found this post from Moma P that spoke to me. Maybe it will give some others I know some things to think about as well. I'm only re-posting part of it. The whole post is further up thread.

Quote from: Moma_porcupine on March 31, 2006, 01:53:34 PM
[Click the link and read the whole post where it appeared. — Sparks]

Stuff to bear in mind when someone that may in other ways seem legit is living off the rez, doing ceremonies for people not of their culture, and who are flying free from any traditional system of checks and balances. Sometimes even good people can get seduced by money and fame, and harm themselves, and everyone around them, in the process.

I wholeheartedly agree, and therefore I want this thread to come uppermost again.