Author Topic: Plastic sweats and pseudo-tantra in The Netherlands  (Read 23718 times)

Offline Litsehimmel

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Plastic sweats and pseudo-tantra in The Netherlands
« on: April 16, 2013, 09:44:16 pm »
Not sure if all of these are selling the ceremonies themselves, but prepare to be shocked: here's a partial list of Dutch sites offering sweatlodge ceremonies. And clicking some of the links will sometimes reveal some very interesting names!

To get it all started, these guys are most likely familiair to you:

http://www.zweethutceremonie.com/wolfdrum.html  (they pop up on another site as well)

And then there are these:

http://www.zweethut.nl/index-eng.html

http://soulbay.nl/zweethutweekend/

http://www.dewegvanhethart.com/zelftherapie/hut.htm

http://www.zweethut.net/content/inipi-zweethut

http://www.reijgersbroeck.nl/zweethut.html

http://www.zweethut-dezwaan.nl/agenda.html

http://waaldijk15.nl/index.php/deweekeindes/de-zweethut/

http://www.zweethut.nu/

http://www.degewijdereis.nl/programma-healing-ayahuasca-workshops/

http://yamarei.nl/nl/zweethut/

http://www.bigdipper.nu/web/agenda.php

http://www.magpeya.nl/php/index.php/agenda.html

http://www.michaelshof.nl/index.php/zweethut

http://www.heiligvuur.info/Zweethut.html

http://www.earth-vision.nl/zweethut

http://www.baba-jaga.nl/zweethut.htm

http://www.noorderster.net/?Activiteiten:Zweethut:Komende_zweethutten

http://www.kasteeldeschans.com/component/content/article/7-rituelen/17-gemengde-zweethutten.html

http://www.degewijdereis.nl/Zweethut/

The following offer (semi-)free ceremonies.

http://www.bigheart.nl/?page_id=38

http://www.drumcircle.nl/

http://www.zweethut.org/zweethut.html


If any of these sites or the names that pop up there need more investigation, just yell.

LH

[changed title of thread. no changes to text. - k]
« Last Edit: April 26, 2013, 07:02:30 pm by Kathryn »

Offline earthw7

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2013, 10:04:13 pm »
I check out each of these sites we really laughed ;D
The group of young natives that were sitting at my house all look at the sites.
oh my who ever heard!!
They even have woman doing things! :o
These people dont know what they are doing.
The names they give themselves are so funny.
How can people be so stupid to listen to these people.
The first thing we laugh at is the person who uses wolves in their self given name.
We always say a wannabe usually put wolves in there name.

In Spirit

Offline earthw7

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2013, 10:10:06 pm »
With that said it is shame that people will go any length to steal defraud a people who they have never met in person
It is a shame that they would abuse a people who they claim to respect oh wait they only what is ours to save themselves
they care not for the native people. :-\
In Spirit

Epiphany

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2013, 10:21:52 pm »
http://www.zweethut.net/content/inipi-zweethut

Google translation:

Quote
The inipi ceremonies are led by William Wout de Klerk and a collective of people that the Red Road, Canka Luta, go in understanding Woptura.

From 1994 I, William Wout, and from 1996 also Pragyan, under the guidance of the Chipps family, attended the Sundance of Woptura Medicine Society on the Pine Ridge Reservation in South Dakota, in the United States. Until 2001 we there every summer as Eagle Dancer dancing. We then less frequently at the Sundance participated.

LH does it look like these two are still active?


Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2013, 11:06:44 pm »
LH does it look like these two are still active?

Yes, they are - there's monthly schedules here:

http://www.zweethut.net/node/915

He offers sweats at 2-3 weekends each month from April to June (no entries for the following months as of yet), and the text says that you can contact him to arrange sweats at other dates.

There are no price tags given, but in the section "Spirituality and money", he put up a text written by Jade Wahoo Grigori.

He does not only sell ceremonies in the Netherlands, but he's got premises in Colombia, too:

http://www.zweethut.net/content/inipi-zweethut

"In the summer of 2002, Pragyan and I took the inipi to Chachagui, Colombia. There we did a sun dance in the spring of 2003 at Onabi Nunhue, the house of the jaguar.
In Januar 2007, Pragyan and I built huts for a new group of people in Cali and La Cocha, Columbia."


Epiphany

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2013, 01:15:05 am »
Thanks Ingeborg!

Pragyan looks to be Pragyan Grimm http://spirituelebazaar.nl/ads/inipi-zweethut-ceremonies-in-zeeland/ - there is a fixed price listed here for ceremonies she does with someone else.




Autumn

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2013, 02:09:45 am »
OMG!  And Holland is such a small country.  What is going on?  Is it like this all over Europe?

You can even get ayahuasca there:

Quote
Description

Mystical Ayahuasca

Healing at soul level

A unique experience in a sacred setting

Ayahuasca The name comes from the language of the Quichua and can be roughly translated as the vine of souls. This sacred plant teacher opens the gates to the deepest healing of the soul.
It is a concoction consisting of a combination of two or more species and has for centuries been used ritually by various Indian tribes in South and Central America. Since the beginning of the twentieth century, ayahuasca has also become known in the West. Ayahuasca contains DMT (endogenous substance) and an MAO-inhibiting effect. Because of this, it is strongly recommended to use ayahuasca under the guidance of experts in a ritual setting.
It is also recommended that you properly prepare, where you live and eetregels observe.
Ayahuasca is known for its purifying effect on both the physical, mental, emotional and spiritual level simultaneously with a deep connection to the imperceptible. In most cases, users feel, is clear and refreshed after a deep ayahuasca experience.
In order to achieve a deep experience of ayahuasca ask you, besides a good preparation: a total surrender.

We offer:
-Individual ceremonies
Ceremonies small group (max. 6 participants)
Group ceremonies large (max 12 participants)
-Three-day seminar in Valencia (min.8 max.12 participants)

If you are interested, please contact Yvonne: tel: 06-42145040 info@herbalspirit.nl

http://spirituelebazaar.nl/ads/mystical-ayahuasca-4/

Note:  I checked the Wikipedia and Ayahuasca has been in the Netherlands since the late 1990's:

Quote
Around the end of the 1990s, ayahuasca use spread to Europe. The first ayahuasca 'Churches' affiliated to the Brazilian Santo Daime were established in the Netherlands. A legal case was filed against two of the Church's leaders, Hans Bogers (one of the original founders of the Dutch Santo Daime community) and Geraldine Fijneman (the head of the Amsterdam Santo Daime community). Bogers and Fijneman were charged with distributing a scheduled substance (DMT); however, the prosecution was unable to prove that the use of ayahuasca by members of the Santo Daime constituted a sufficient threat to public health and order that it warranted denying their rights to religious freedom under ECHR Article 9. The 2001 verdict of the Amsterdam district court is an important precedent. Since then groups that are not affiliated to the Santo Daime have used ayahuasca, and a number of different 'styles' have been developed, such as the non-religious approach developed by Daniel Waterman in 2001,[27] popularly termed Ayahuasca Open Style (AOS).[28]

Due to the legal status of ayahuasca in much of the West,[citation needed] those who have been exploring its therapeutic potential are unable to do so openly. The non-religious therapeutic use of ayahuasca is not protected by covenants on religious freedom.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayahuasca
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 02:33:44 am by Autumn »

Epiphany

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2013, 02:10:24 pm »
A Santo Daime in the Netherlands site http://www.santodaime.nl/index.html

(for anyone who needs translations like I do, the google chrome browser can be helpful, has a built in translation bar)

Yikes: "Once started a ritual, you are explicitly asked to stay to the end." Also expected to take yourself off certain psych meds before.

I wonder if LG is using ayahuasca?


Offline Litsehimmel

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2013, 08:48:09 pm »
Epiphany ...

... William Wout de Klerk ...

LH does it look like these two are still active?

Yes, like Ingeborg said he's still active. Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/352141568159003/

Quote
Willem Wout has been trained by the Lakota Indians in the United States and is a Shaman. I know Willem Wout as an intelligent, strong man with a loving and caring attitude who is able to create the proper conditions in which you can experiment, heal and grow.

This particular ceremony was held last Saturday. Through the organizer Ben van Duijn I also found de Klerk's FB account:
https://www.facebook.com/willemwout.deklerk?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab

LH

Offline earthw7

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2013, 10:35:05 pm »
Gee i am Lakota and never heard we had shamans
In Spirit

Autumn

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2013, 05:09:37 am »
At this site, one of the links that Litsehimmel posted above, you can get both a sweat lodge and ayahuasca in one weekend!  Talk about mix and match.   http://www.degewijdereis.nl/ayahuasca/

Quote
Sweat lodge / Ayahuascaweekenden
Sweat lodge / Ayahuascaweekenden

Since last year we also organize weekends with the combination sweat lodge ceremony and ayahuasca ceremony. On the first day is the sweat lodge ceremony and on the second day of the ayahuasca ceremony.

The program on the first day starts at 13 am and ends at about 19/20 hours. The ayahuasca ceremony on the second day begins at half past 10 and ends around 18 hours (target time).

It is possible to attend (50 euros). Release the sweat lodge ceremony

For data see below Calendar. Exercise can be done via info@degewijdereis.nl

They even have Ken Wilber in on the act, by posting a video of him discussing ayahuasca (for those who are impressed by Ken Wilber).


Offline Litsehimmel

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Re: Sweatlodge ceremonies in The Netherlands
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2013, 03:56:45 pm »
More info on the site http://soulbay.nl/zweethutweekend/ mentioned in the first post ...

Soulbay site, offering sweat lodge ceremonies.

http://anonym.to/?http://soulbay.nl/zweethutweekend/

Evolved from a site called Sprense, whose owners (Joep Timmers and Marlene [no last name yet]) are dedicated to experiencing 'free love' and 'sensual healing'. I.o.w. tantric sex.
Some people connected to Soulbay are:
- Rinske Frederiks (https://www.facebook.com/rinske.frederiks); teaches kundalini yoga; 'flow process manager'; married to the following
- Hugo van der Drift (https://www.facebook.com/hugo.vanderdrift); OSHO follower; co-owner of and coach and trainer at corporate training agency called "Nieuwe Dimensies" (new dimensions); promotes 'peaceful communication'
- Petra Wilmer (Houtzager); active in theater, has several sites which are down or not-developed yet
- Vasu Macqouy (https://www.facebook.com/vasu.macquoy?fref=pb&hc_location=friends_tab); connected to http://www.soulquest-reizen.nl which, amongst other things, promotes 'meditating on grave hills' in Cornwall, England.
- Mati Engwerda; dancer, owns site www.dansdevijfritmes.nl (dance the five rithms) on which she helps advertise for sweat lodges (Sacha zomerfestival  14-18 augustus Dreumel)

As well as this guy:

- Rob Hoebee; calls himself a white self-sufficient magician on his site (www.robhoebee.nl); claims to "walk the Red Road"; uses music like "mantras, heartsongs and old native american prayers"; was "trained as a shaman";
Quote
"I am very dedicated to the Red Road, inspired by the Lakotas (Sioux). It's all about what you do here and now in daily life. I am very happy with everything I have obtained from this road and will still obtain."
   Has produced several 'native american' cd's together with Ingrid Sonneveld, on which they sing "ndn" songs. About their cooperation:
Quote
"Ingrid Sonneveld (see HeartSong): I work together with Ingrid in the area of music, espially performances and also in rituals and ceremonies. Together we have produced two CDs. / Healing and initiating rituals and ceremonies: (with colleagues if necessary) All people use ceremonies and rituals to get in touch with the Higher Powers. The purpose is often a call for help and support in undergoing certain changes: i.e. (changing) relationships, birth, blessing a marriage, rite of passage and initiation from one phase to the next (i.e. boy > man, girl > woman), departure, return, initiation, cleansing, blessing and start of own practice, general changes, setting your passion free in the world. In short, the ife of your soul and everything that Life brings to you. The special focussed actions like attention, prayers and music help in making the connection. You don't have to do anything alone! It even goes a lot easier when you can depend on the support of the Spirits!
Note. These ceremonies are empty in form and are designed and completed together with the client. The connective elements of all Spiritual currents will be decisive in this process.

Sweat lodge ceremony on the site involves the singing of Lakota songs  and talking about the canku luta, the Red Road. It is led by Rob Hoebee and Kerstin Kinast. Seperate 'moonlodge' for women on their monthlies.

Quote
The tradition of the Lakota indians knows a large number of ceremonies which are still very much alive.

From this tradition we take you along a short journey to the deeper wisdom of the natural peoples of North America: they lifestyle, their connection with Mother earth and that which all these peoples have in common:

they call themselves ‘Keepers of the Earth’.

We open with a Four Directions song. Following that there is a round with the Talking Stick. After a short story about its origins, everyone may share and ask questions. We aletrnate with singing Lakota songs and saying Lakota prayers.

Aho Mitakuye Oyasin (“For all my relatives”),


LH



Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Plastic sweats and pseudo-tantra in The Netherlands
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2013, 06:56:37 pm »
More info on the site http://soulbay.nl/zweethutweekend/ mentioned in the first post ...

Soulbay site, offering sweat lodge ceremonies.

Well, fake ones. And from what I can see of their fake lodge, they're going to hurt someone.

Quote
http://anonym.to/?http://soulbay.nl/zweethutweekend/

Evolved from a site called Sprense, whose owners (Joep Timmers and Marlene [no last name yet]) are dedicated to experiencing 'free love' and 'sensual healing'. I.o.w. tantric sex.

Not Tantra. Real Tantra is a South Asian tradition and has nothing to do with these bored swingers and newagers who often have ties to criminal sex trafficking.

Bunch of nasty pretendians and pretend-asians, selling fake ceremonies that are going to, at best, do nothing but reinforce their racist alienation and, at worst, really mess people up and even kill them. Frauds.  Shameful frauds.

Offline Litsehimmel

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Re: Plastic sweats and pseudo-tantra in The Netherlands
« Reply #13 on: April 28, 2013, 05:30:39 pm »
Again from the list in the first post, the site http://www.zweethut.org

Connected with John Fire Lame Deer, son of Archie Fire Lame Deer and grandson of John Fire Lame Deer. It says on the site:
Quote
The sweat lodge ceremony like we do it could be typified as traditional. I.o.w. we do it as we have been taught by the late Archie Fire Lame Deer and after that by his son John. Of course we are not Lakota indians and do not pretend to be. The ceremony is held in the same manner it has been held by generations in this line.

On the home page of the site it says:

Quote
nonprofit - The aim is to do as many sweat lodge ceremonies together as possible. This means that nobody makes any money from the sweat lodge ceremonies which we organize. Everybody (organizors, participants, water pourers and fire people) shares equally in the costs. Money that is left over is spent on ptojects which benefit the Lakota. Furthermore we are of the opinion that money should never be a reason not to participate. In that case we can come to an arrangement. Kids up to 16 years old participate for free.
international - Our organization is part of an international organization that holds sweat lodges / seminars over several days with a.o. John Fire Lame Deer and Thomas Geldner in several countries throughout Europe. This happens according to the same traditon that we use. For more information on different European locations see http://www.lamedeer.org/

On the German Lame Deer site

A link to French sweat lodge ceremonies connects to a Maurice Rebeix (https://www.facebook.com/rebeix; http://www.reveurs-de-tonnerre.com/); photographer; friends with Tiwakan-Wi Brothers (https://www.facebook.com/tiwakanwi.brothers) on his FB, who in turn lists Mary Brave Bird (https://www.facebook.com/mary.bravebird; author of Lakota Woman) as 'sister'. Did not find anything on this site with regard to the two women.

As for Maurice Rebeix, he seems (as far as I can understand his French site) to be legit in as far as wanting to provide the French public with accurate information with regard to the Lakota. Wrote a book (Rêveurs-de-Tonnerre) which includes a foreword by Leonard Peltier.

If my surmise that this is all above aboard is wrong, please let me know and I will look into it further.

A link to German sweat lodge ceremonies seems to be less legit. This link goes on to the site http://inipi.info/. On the home page one immediately discovers a link to a Shamanic Summer Camp with passing rites (Shamanissche Sommer-Camp mit Übergangsritualen). This 'summer camp' is led by Dhyan Marsha Rademacher Borboleta Azul and Jack Silver Regenbogenherz-Kolibri (Jack Silver Rainbow Heart-Kolibri), both self-professed 'shamans'. The camp lasts a week and costs 255 euros, excluding additional costs charged by the camp site location. The setup already has been discussed in this thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=2489.msg20859#msg20859

These two people - Dhyan Marsha and Jack Silver; life partners (http://www.kriegerschule.de/ueber-uns/leitung.html)  - also have their own site called Warrior School (Kriegerschule) http://www.kriegerschule.de/  It includes a prayer "to the Great Mother" by Alba Maria, who in turn can be found here:
http://ecojourneysbrazil.blogspot.nl/p/shaman-alba-maria.html
http://shamans-journey.blogspot.nl/2013/04/shaman-alba-maria.html

Alba Maria can in turn be connected to 'shaman' Dancing Thunder through the upcoming Shamanic Teachings event (www.shamanicteachings.eu) which - of course - is held in The Netherlands. Dancing Thunder has been discussed many times already, and is a fraud.

Shaman Dhyan Marsha seems to have received her training from both Alba Maria and somebody named Burkhardt Kiegeland (http://www.kiegelandfoto.com/about/burkhardt-kiegeland; http://www.einsundsein.org/index.php); photographer, musician; self proclaimed guru and buddha; leader of a sect called "White Lotus" (Weisser Lotus; http://www.relinfo.ch/weisserlotus/info.html); was thrown out of the Bhagwan community in Oregon ... i.o.w. a totally trustworthy guy ... not.

Shaman Jack Silver has been taught by the Deer Tribe. Having read several threads on the forum, I guess that C.V. says it all.

I'll look into the rest of the people mentioned on the site(s) as soon as possible.


LH

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Plastic sweats and pseudo-tantra in The Netherlands
« Reply #14 on: April 28, 2013, 06:24:26 pm »
As for Maurice Rebeix, he seems (as far as I can understand his French site) to be legit in as far as wanting to provide the French public with accurate information with regard to the Lakota. Wrote a book (Rêveurs-de-Tonnerre) which includes a foreword by Leonard Peltier.

Holy crap.

No. The guy's an appropriator. He's a frenchman leading fake Lakota ceremonies for white people in Europe. There's nothing the least bit "legit" about that.

Google translation of this page on his site. He gives the, "Lakota own their spirituality" disclaimer, and then applauds the people he's found who violate the Declaration of War and similar standards and let Euros buy their way into Sun Dances, even to the extent of dancing.  He's just another Euro who bought his way in at Crow Dog's. This is shameful stuff:

"They open their doors to the rest of the world in the spirit of peace and harmony, in accordance with the ceremonial formula that is at the heart of all their rituals Mitakuye Oyasin!
...
I have a personal involvement with the Lakota Spiritual World and with the circle of the Sun Dance, where the most sacred, the most fundamental of the Lakota Sioux rituals happens. For the past 13 years, I have been a Sun Dancer at that Sundance.
...
The participation in ceremonies that we offer you to experience in our meetings are essentially identical to those that you could experience on Indian land."

And he has the arrogance and ignorance to sign his words with, "Mitakuye Oyasin."

Additionally, the Lakota do not need French pretendians to "educate" other French people about them. They can, and do, speak for themselves. If the curious French person (what exactly is it they so need to know, anyway?) doesn't speak English, there are plenty of NDNs who speak French. NDNs don't need anthropologists; those people actually harm NDN communities and cultures, and spawn ceremony-sellers.

Rebieux is also profiting off his pictures of Lakotas, and is involved in this project:

http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/french-clothing-firm-seeking-lakota-look/article_037b7556-724d-58df-be15-f4499b193f6c.html

'"He said Aigle was interested in the Lakota culture and its exotic look and thought it would meld seamlessly into its tribal themes photographed in the faces of indigenous people from Tahiti and Mongolia.

'"I felt they were providing a positive image," Rebeix said.'

I guess the Lakotas who look like the stereotype these Euros want to encourage could use the money from a modelling gig (just like some folks got jobs as extras in "Dances with Wolves. Ahem.).  But a truly supportive effort would be to promote Lakota designers, not some corporation that is going to appropriate from "tribal" cultures to sell "exoticism" to non-Natives.

This guy is a culture vulture, an exploiter, pimping the Lakota for his own profit. He's the epitome of the "helpful" Euro who just wants to steal from NDNs.