Author Topic: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research  (Read 20120 times)

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2010, 10:28:57 pm »

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You seem unable to grasp basic information that people have kindly taken the time to provide.

I find your last post arrogant and offensive.

Why on earth should native people respond to demands for answers to questions that have nothing to do with them and that demonstrate racism and stereotypical fantasies about native people on the part of the questioner?

Keep your shirt on. I am not demanding. And I have already explained more than once--the whole point i inquired here was to not have yo rely on steroetypical 'plastic natives'

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You are the one who is interested in UFOs, not native people.  What on earth makes you think that native people should be interested in your obsessions about UFOs?


Errrrm how can you speak for ALL native peoples?
What on earth makes you think you know what ALL natives people should be interested in?




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Nobody is questioning that some plants are sacred.  These plants have been used for generations within some native communities as part of their religious ceremonies. This is an entirely different thing to ayahusaca tourism, where anyone pays a fee (usually a lot of money) to take part in some ceremony or other that has nothing to do with their community or the community of the person charging for the experience.

That is something I am VERY interested in, but would want to save it for another thread. I have never been to South America and paid for Ayahuasca sessions etc, but know people who do, and it does seem to conflict with what I have heard Native Americans say about not charging money. I really do want to get into this in another thread.

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You have a lot to learn yet you seem unable to hear what people here are saying.  I do not understand why you bother to ask questions if you will only actually listen to answers that conform to your perspective of the world.  

That is unfair. I do try and listen, otherwise why would I be asking questions  :)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 11:15:53 pm by juztme »

Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2010, 10:31:29 pm »
Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.

Just in case you missed it.

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2010, 10:49:16 pm »


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Unfortunately this guy [petrogyphsinthesky] is fairly typical of the type of person and the quality of research and evidence they have. You probably won't find any topic which attracts more cranks and crazies. Some are exploitative, and we are happy to expose such people. Many are people needing professional help who have found an unfortunate obsession with the topic and often get used and abused by exploiters.

Maybe your right. I only used him as an example because the only others I know (apart from very few seeming genuine native people who have briefly referred to this subject) are  Dr Boylan and his 'Indians.
I quoted his the other guy's 'rant' because I was so shocked by his dreadfull worldview and wanted to see reaction here

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A great many people, everyone from Native elders to Carl Sagan, admit the possibility of beings on other planets. The problem becomes weeding out all the loons and poor and even faked evidence. You need to likely start by looking at better sources. I frankly wouldn't trust anything online on the subject that is not either an astronomy website run from a university, or the most carefully gathered traditional accounts of elders, written up by anthropologists acting in good faith and with rigorous standards.

In this I think your wrong--partly. I have two quite large files on UFO phenomena all from online sources, and they are good sources. One example--The Phoenix Lights. This was actually televized on TV in 1997, and cannot be explained away, and thousands of people say a massive silent craft glide over them which many said was 'otherworldly.
In my experience at 'mainstream science' sites trying to talk about this subject, I have been net with utter direspect, and I include foul language also. These people pay homage to the cult of scientism not science.
There is MUCH evidence for this phenomena--it happend over NYC just last October, and it was NOT balloons. The balloons explanation is propaganda. This follows a pattern with other events when actual observers see something non-ordinary. At Phoenic '97 the propaganda was 'flares'. These absurd explanation patronize common people.

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The absolute last place you should look is any UFO enthusiast site because 99% of them will be complete garbage, run by nuts who want attention and sometimes cash. As far asking Native people, many will be reluctant to talk about traditional accounts because we've seen so often they get misread, twisted, and lied about. On top of that, so many will read into any account of contact with spirits and insist "those dumb Indians were really worshipping aliens." The crude racism of many UFO lovers is quite common, all kinds of stereotypes about primitives coming into play.

Again, if you are serious about this, your best bet is an astronomy or anthropology site run by academics.

I wish native peoples would see this thread and trust I in no way would offend them if they shared with me such knowledge. Look, I feel that nature is alive. I do not buy the non-native view of the world which separates nature from spirit. So how do I then see the UFO phenomenon? I do not know--it is very confusing! I try and not put it all into one bag. It is some phenomena which I feel challenges especially the dead western worldview which is destroying the web of life. But it is very very complex, and real.
You cant talk with many so-called scientists about this because they cling to their materialistic worldview, and many can get very offensive. I was treated like shit a the Richard Dawkins forums when I tried to discuss about this subject.

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2010, 11:11:58 pm »
Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.

See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video)

and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection

Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2010, 11:20:02 pm »
i have no idea what ufo's are, I mean, other than "unidentifiable flying objects"..
which I've seen here and there.. but not so sure on "alien" (other worldly) visitors..
but I did find this news report to be a bit believable, and sincere. Somehow, I can't
come up with a manageable idea as to why these people would just stand around
and lie?  (and maybe should move thread to etc? :)  )

Former US Air Force officers discuss UFO's ..  dated 9/27/2010..

http://blip.tv/file/4177133
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2010, 11:22:29 pm »
I'm sorry, but when you start mixing in drugs.. sacred plant or not.. I just can't
"trust" what someone has drawn or depicted while under the influence. I cannot
take what they give as credible.. because I don't know what the drug is doing
to them, and it, to my mind anyway, would or should be a very personal and
private thing/meaning.. not some depictions of alien spaceships.. who knows
what they are seeing while involved with a drug/plant?  

Maybe they're giving depictions of something in the future.. that is man made? Who could
possibly know?  Maybe it's just fantasy..
So, yeh, I just can't all out believe someone under an influence, especially mind altering
influence.


Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.

See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video)

and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 11:32:22 pm by critter »
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet http://www.4shared.com/file/114179563/3697e436/BuddhaFeet.html

Offline Peasant

  • Posts: 26
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2010, 12:21:01 am »
Just feel like sharing some video links, i've got a few more but these really made me think when i saw them.

Larry King (CNN) show about UFO's.
Don't like how they're patronizing Bill Nye but still very interesting
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J98OBPT_o30
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6_6KPbEPI
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC4macIn45s
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB0TQO9mtzc

Former US astronauts talk about UFO's
Gordon Cooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc
Edgar Mitchell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upFvipUAXs
Buzz Aldrin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI

I've always tried to be skeptical about any kind of UFO footage. Also i don't have a 'trained eye' for examining such videos. But these testimonies should be taken seriously... many of these men have passed all kinds of extremely sophisticated physical and mental tests to do their work. I think either way it's very important that these kind of matters deserve an unbiased investigation. Either a group of dozens of people in the army/air force have been hallucinating/experienced a psychosis, altogether, at an army base with nuclear weapons - which is a very dangerous situation. Or their stories are actually real.  ::)

Just my two cents. Like someone else here said, it's better to stay away from UFO websites. Usually like 99% rubbish and it can be hard to distinguish what could be real of it, if anything. There's a few people who collect genuine & important testimonies and evidence but also thousands of loonies.

Offline tecpaocelotl

  • Posts: 160
  • That one guy...
    • My blog
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2010, 02:13:42 am »
Digging yourself into another whole.

See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video)

This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC.  Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com

and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection
That's about the same thing as you shown before which got me questioning.

Did some research on this Pablo guy:
http://www.pabloamaringo.com

It looks like he paints many things.

Offline karen mica

  • Posts: 34
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2010, 05:27:23 am »
Some will not want to hear this, and some will simply laugh and think it`s crazy, but I`ll say it anyway... who knows how "true" it may be?

This is what I have heard, and the way I have hear it...

It seems that every culture, as far back as anyone cares to look have been "visited" by something outside of their experience. These "visitors" have been described as little people, trolls, angels, gods, aliens etc, etc, but they all appear to have come from the same place to interact with "humanity" every so often, briefly.

They are "all " inter-dimensional entities which means that they don`t need a UFO to get around and just because you happen to see a "vehicle" it doesn`t necessarily indicate that planetary travel is involved though in some cases it might actually be, though usually not. 

Many native peoples have stories about coming from the stars originally, in other words they recall having been "seeded here" as have all other races. The "white race" having been the last brought here by the "gods".

The Hopi and others didn`t just pop up out of the ground one day unaware, having been here early on they were actually "rescued" from a horrific cataclysm in Asia and brought to the area they are in now.
Some of them must have made that connection to the "ant people" who rescued them and the common big headed alien by now, no doubt.

Yet being "rescued" for their own benefit or the benefit of the ant people is still be to discovered.
We are here, every one of us, because we are the "food supply" of the inter dimensional`s.
Nothing more, nothing less. 

Get beyond the "alien glamor" garbage and understand that we are an "energy" food source" for these beings and as long as this is the case, this game of hide and seek with them continues.

Getting stoned and seeking them out, is the most foolish thing anyone could do and there is no reason whats so ever to believe that any "visions" being given by the "masters" of the game, are going to be worth a damn, other then to pump up an ego and make a person feel "speshel" in some way.
They are not here to help us, they farm us!

Our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth, and were every bit as "enslaved" by some "god" then, as we are now. And many people simply fell for the "wonder" of it all at the time.

The sooner we all realize this and remember why we`re here...the better to start actually doing something about it, together... in unity.

First thing, learn to control your emotions, and stop feeding them.

It`s all there for anybody to discover for themselves, when your finally ready to "face the truth and the terror " of the human situation on this little planet.
Hmm, is any of that true...who knows.

 


Offline Saga

  • Posts: 53
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2010, 08:22:43 am »
Digging yourself into another whole.

See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video)

This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC.  Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com


This is the guy I was going to ask about one day, but forgot! Jose Pineda Vargas... Who is that guy anyway? Seen the Little Grandmother tribers and some others linking his videos in fb... Feels like a fake to me, but a new one and not sure, first time I bump into him at least.

some info here: http://www.soga-del-alma.org/featuring/curanderos/item/30-jose-pineda-vargas.html

"Jose Pineda Vargas, whose traditional family name is "Mancoluto," is a first level shaman in his native tradition. His lineage runs through many generations of shamans and back to the ancient Chavin civilization, one of the oldest of South America. Displaying psychic abilities at a young age, Vargas's family began his shamanic training early by taking him on ayahuasca journeys when he was only eight years old. For many years, Master Mancoluto worked in hospitals as a medical consultant, utilizing his knowledge of human physiology and psychology, as well as natural medicines, to assist patients.

His ceremonies feature a rare Chavin initiation process that provides interpretations of the visions and experiences of each participant's journey. Vargas calls on both the teacher plant ayahuasca (the vine of souls) and the San Pedro cactus (Huachuma) to heal and cleanse initiates' physical and energetic bodies, open their minds to deeper realities, develop their intuitive capabilities, and unlock their untapped potential."

And @ Karen, I hope you are not right, because these unidentified things are all over right now and people are encouraged to call them with all their power. :)

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2010, 09:45:16 am »
i have no idea what ufo's are, I mean, other than "unidentifiable flying objects"..
which I've seen here and there.. but not so sure on "alien" (other worldly) visitors..
but I did find this news report to be a bit believable, and sincere. Somehow, I can't
come up with a manageable idea as to why these people would just stand around
and lie?  (and maybe should move thread to etc? :)  )

Former US Air Force officers discuss UFO's ..  dated 9/27/2010..

http://blip.tv/file/4177133

yes I am glad you linked about that here. That these UFOs seem very concerned with 'our' use of nuclear weaponry which is extraordinarily damaging to the environment. I don't know if you know that in the American Gulf war, and Iraqi and Afghanistan invasions 9though both are invasions) they used depleted uranium in their weaponry which is radioactive. Not only is it one of the most destructive weapons it comaninates the land water and air for millions of years, and causes horrific DNA damage of human foetuses (possibly animal also, of course, but I am only familr--sadlly--with the utter horror (beyond words) I have seen done to 'babies'. Many people are also still imagining the 'Cold War understanding of nuclear bombs which was bad enough, but now the powers that be are in love with mini nukes and also used thim in their Iraqi and Afghanistan 'video-game-invasions'. SO---IF there are UFOs taking it upon themselves to be concerned about this, and actively congregating outside these nuclear bases and in some cases disengaging the weapony are we to think of them as an enemy of humanity and earth OR a welcome friend? What do you think?

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2010, 09:57:06 am »
Just feel like sharing some video links, i've got a few more but these really made me think when i saw them.

Larry King (CNN) show about UFO's.
Don't like how they're patronizing Bill Nye but still very interesting
1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J98OBPT_o30
2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk6_6KPbEPI
3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC4macIn45s
4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LB0TQO9mtzc

Former US astronauts talk about UFO's
Gordon Cooper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPR8T1o3Dc
Edgar Mitchell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5upFvipUAXs
Buzz Aldrin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlkV1ybBnHI

I've always tried to be skeptical about any kind of UFO footage. Also i don't have a 'trained eye' for examining such videos. But these testimonies should be taken seriously... many of these men have passed all kinds of extremely sophisticated physical and mental tests to do their work. I think either way it's very important that these kind of matters deserve an unbiased investigation. Either a group of dozens of people in the army/air force have been hallucinating/experienced a psychosis, altogether, at an army base with nuclear weapons - which is a very dangerous situation. Or their stories are actually real.  ::)

Just my two cents. Like someone else here said, it's better to stay away from UFO websites. Usually like 99% rubbish and it can be hard to distinguish what could be real of it, if anything. There's a few people who collect genuine & important testimonies and evidence but also thousands of loonies.

Hi Crescent, I am sorry--I was going to reply to your personal email today where you linked me to these links, but seeing you have posted this here, I'll reply here in stead. I have two fairly big diverse files complied over a time, and think I should have most of what you showing here. I will take a look at them all later, thanks :)
I think you are wrong to claim that 99% of UFO sites are wrong. If it wasn't for these people this subject would not be as known about as it is. Why should we sorship the so-called scientists? In my experience--the ones I have met online at various forums, many of the ones who love to make out they 'know' are some of the most arrogant, ignore-ant, and often foul-mouthed people I have ever had the misfortune to meet. It is not science these people support but scientism! Scientism is the new religion of 'science' which demands you conform to their version of 'reality'. This mindset is what arrived on the shores of the Americas and did what it did--at its helm was the likes of Sir Francis Bacon who believed 'we' had the right to rape mother earth and get her secrets. They are the last people I would trust. Now the so-called big science is completely tied up with corporate interests not what science should be which is wonder about reality, and respecting anomalies that cannot be understood. I have been accused once or twice here of being disrespectful. I only wish you could have heard what some of these types have said to me in the past when I have simply wanted to discuss areas of research which they will NOT accept.

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2010, 11:46:37 am »
Digging yourself into another whole.

See here: Master Shaman Jose Vargas’ Alien Encounters (Video)

This link has a tribe name (chavin) in there which could make people believe in it, but if someone were to read it, they're just describing how old it is since the Chavin were from 900 BC to 200 BC.  Also, the Chimbrew Shamanic Retreat looks like a new ager retreat especially if they're trying to get people to develop clairvoyant and telepathic senses as you can see here:
http://www.chimbre.com

and The Ayahuasca-Alien Connection
That's about the same thing as you shown before which got me questioning.

Did some research on this Pablo guy:
http://www.pabloamaringo.com

It looks like he paints many things.

I am not diggin myself into a 'hole' (a Whole, maybe,  :D) because I am not trying to prove a point, or defend some 'truth' I am trying to preach. I am learning, and love asking questions which is why I am here. I have personally never taken Ayahuasca (though I have taken a couple of other entheogens), nor been part of Ayahuasca tourism, though I have read accounts of dramtic spiritual and physical healing from people who have.
I admit that that Chimbrew 'shamanistic' retreat does smell of new ageyness. Just the fact they are using the term 'shaman' makes me suspicious as it is the catch-all fave name of the new age now as I am sure you know. Where they talk about Atlantis and Lemuria particularly exposes its new age affiliations. The guy on the video at that link claims he 'felt so bad for the poor' that he flashed his card (one of em no doubt) and bought them all pizzas, and from there uses that to say how he was inspired from a 'shaman' to open the retreat which to me looks like it would not accept poor people but only very rich middle class people and will be expensive. If all that is so I would be very suspicious yes!

As for Pablo Amaringo, I have his book which feaures all that art. I have no reason to distrust him and his visions, and from western research into DMT is is fairly common for people to experience UFOs and their entities in these experiences. I see a continuum. I do not divide 'visions' from 'reality'.

Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2010, 11:59:21 am »
I'm sorry, but when you start mixing in drugs.. sacred plant or not.. I just can't
"trust" what someone has drawn or depicted while under the influence. I cannot
take what they give as credible.. because I don't know what the drug is doing
to them, and it, to my mind anyway, would or should be a very personal and
private thing/meaning.. not some depictions of alien spaceships.. who knows
what they are seeing while involved with a drug/plant?  

Maybe they're giving depictions of something in the future.. that is man made? Who could
possibly know?  Maybe it's just fantasy..
So, yeh, I just can't all out believe someone under an influence, especially mind altering
influence.

I am glad you have raised this question, because it is important and will give me reason to reflect on it. I have had personal experience with entheogens in my life (first time being 15 with LSD, and later with sacred mushrooms), and also have done research about them. My first experience opened my eyes to the wonder and interconnectedness of the natural world--something I had lost from being little and through terrible school experienc where I had become a bit sadistic, hard, and in love with the image of the big city.
My first trip I became very aware of pther peoples (I was at a party and they weren't tripping) body language. It was real, and was not me imagining it. Psychologists will tell you that people reveal body language in various ways and they intellectually study it and practice to see it, but I was seeing it very powerfully with inspiration from LSD. These entheogens do not make us 'hallucinate'--ie., seeing something that isn't there--but rather are like some kind of interdimensional microscope which help us see deeper into reality. Mostly we see and understand reality through the veils of propaganda pushed on us via tradition, school, mass media, etc. So to assume how we usually are is 'normal' is a presumption as that may not be the case.

People who have not had entheogens and yet speak about encounters with UFOs and also their entities will also speak of time distortion, and spiritual after effects also which can be experienced with sacred plants, entheogens. So it is more a continuum.
When we eat food food has vitamins and mineral right, and so does good water. When we eat right we can feel more vital. We don't say that the 'food' makes us like that, and that this vitality is fantasy do we?
We feel healthy and vital. Isn't sacred vegetation a food also?


Offline juztme

  • Posts: 19
Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2010, 12:26:09 pm »
[Some will not want to hear this, and some will simply laugh and think it`s crazy, but I`ll say it anyway... who knows how "true" it may be?

This is what I have heard, and the way I have hear it...]

Hi Karen. If I may ask, are you native and if so which tribe do you belong? Who have you heard this from? Can you be specific as possible pleas?

Quote
It seems that every culture, as far back as anyone cares to look have been "visited" by something outside of their experience. These "visitors" have been described as little people, trolls, angels, gods, aliens etc, etc, but they all appear to have come from the same place to interact with "humanity" every so often, briefly.

They are "all " inter-dimensional entities which means that they don`t need a UFO to get around and just because you happen to see a "vehicle" it doesn`t necessarily indicate that planetary travel is involved though in some cases it might actually be, though usually not.  

Well it is too soon to jump to conclusions.

Quote
Many native peoples have stories about coming from the stars originally, in other words they recall having been "seeded here" as have all other races. The "white race" having been the last brought here by the "gods".

People of the Goddess don't. They see the earth as the Goddess, and home, but also as not separated from the universe which is also the womb.

Quote
The Hopi and others didn`t just pop up out of the ground one day unaware, having been here early on they were actually "rescued" from a horrific cataclysm in Asia and brought to the area they are in now.
Some of them must have made that connection to the "ant people" who rescued them and the common big headed alien by now, no doubt.

Yet being "rescued" for their own benefit or the benefit of the ant people is still be to discovered.
We are here, every one of us, because we are the "food supply" of the inter dimensional`s.
Nothing more, nothing less.
 

Now from that you jump to this. You seem to have subsumed all the entities to mean the 'Ant people ala Greys'--the 'interdimensionals'-- and assume that we are their domestic stock and food supply. Are you claiming just the the Hopi believe this? Can you provide any sources for your assertion?

Quote
Get beyond the "alien glamor" garbage and understand that we are an "energy" food source" for these beings and as long as this is the case, this game of hide and seek with them continues.

Getting stoned and seeking them out, is the most foolish thing anyone could do and there is no reason whats so ever to believe that any "visions" being given by the "masters" of the game, are going to be worth a damn, other then to pump up an ego and make a person feel "speshel" in some way.
They are not here to help us, they farm us!

Once again you claim we are an energy food source for these beings. What beings? Are you claiming these beings --ALL of them--are this one beings you mean who see us as energetic food supply?
What is the main sources for what you are claiming here please?
I can imagine that taking sacraments and meeting other beings would seem dangerous with a worldview you have, but from what I have experienced, and many otther reports from people who have had these deep experiences with an Ayahuescero, or not, are not as negative as your making out. And they tend to deconstruct 'ego' not pump it up as you put it. Even western consciousness researchers know that serious sacred use of entheogens can bring about ego death and death/rebirth experience!

Quote
Our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth, and were every bit as "enslaved" by some "god" then, as we are now. And many people simply fell for the "wonder" of it all at the time.

You seem to be on same wavelength as the petrog;yphs in the air guy--so much so before replying I did a Google of your name with his to see if there was any connection.
When you say our ancient ancestors knew this to be the truth--is this just a personl assumption of yours or can you provide me with genuine sources which back up what you claim? Also its a contradiction for you to say on one hand they knew this 'truth' yet became enslaved with it. For if you know this you wouldn't allow yourself to become enslaved by beings claiming to be your gods. In all encounter reprts I have read, not once had I heard these beings say to the contatees or abductees they are our gods. Not that I can remember anyhow. If you could find one I would look at it. What I have read is that they rather warn people what us humans are doing to this wonderful earth! They show the actual damage and what is going to happen if 'we' continue the route we are on.

Quote
The sooner we all realize this and remember why we`re here...the better to start actually doing something about it, together... in unity.

First thing, learn to control your emotions, and stop feeding them.

It`s all there for anybody to discover for themselves, when your finally ready to "face the truth and the terror " of the human situation on this little planet.
Hmm, is any of that true...who knows.

Well, with respect, you do seem to make out you know. As well as this interest I of course am very much interested in facing the truth of what is going on with this world, and it is very harrowing to face as well. have you seen the film The New American Century? You can see the full film at Youtube. it is AWFUL. So----IF you were to realize that, and also entertain a worldview that 'spirits in the sky' are also on our case, I cannot think of a more dreadful negative scenario, and this is why I am making effort to challenge it.
 


« Last Edit: November 05, 2010, 12:29:12 pm by juztme »