Author Topic: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research  (Read 17922 times)

Offline juztme

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history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« on: November 02, 2010, 10:59:54 pm »
Hello

OK, I have been very interested in researching about UFO phenomenon.
Although I have been interested in this for a few years, I was much inspired after the recnt 'UFO' event over New York City. It IS a very complex subuject I am sure you know with different viewponts and groups. many fundamentalist Christians for example see these UFOs and 'entities' as 'demonic', etc.

I have been wanting to find out about Native peoples possible experience with this phenomenon, but am very wary about who is saying what--such as plastic shamans, and phony natives who say they are belonging to a tribe etc.

I am aware of the Hopi Prophecy which may include UFOs, but then again I am tenative because maybe someone talking about it using their sacredknowledge to promite the authors UFO beliefs.

I am also aware of 'shamanic' traditions in South America. For example the artist Pablo Amaringo has illustrated visions which include many depictions of UFOs and magical occupants some of whom teach the Ayahuesceros Icaros/healing songs,

There is a young man at Youtube who has a channel called petroglyphsintheair, and you see him exploring the ancint Native rock art in his home of Arizona, and he claims that many of the drawings depict UFOs and occupants, and he can predict where UFOs will appear from the rock art and has taken videos of them in the sky.

I thought he was a good person to ask, but have to say was VERY shocked by his reply which I will paste here. I would like to know what you think about what he is saying please?

"hello :)

thank you very much. ya know true natives wont talk about this, they will say there are forces that man is not ment to deal with, this is one of them. some natives dont understand the true history of the rock art and history. they think little green men from mars and space ships and dont understand what true spirits are. it will take some time for this generation to figure out that the ufos they see now IS part of this world. threw hollywood and people trying to sell a book they think space ships and dont know what they truly are. you see the things we see now live here in the mountains, not from another planet. they have allways been here. they are not green guys and space ships at all but another life form. there are alot of species here on earth that man hasent found yet. this is one of them. you have to understand the past to understand the future. the people who delt with ufos in the past disappeared, so what dose that say about us ?? the evidence is all around us but people dont know this because they were not told the true history of planet earth. this topic was not ment for us to understand. the gods of the mayans are the ufos we see now. look at all the blood they shead for the ufos. the natives now who understand this will not talk about this because they were told what the spirits did to there ancestors. they told the kids that if they were not good the spirits would take them away. one day soon everyone will understand this but by that time they will be forced to worship them and sacrafice there kids and prisoners for them. you see we dont need them yet so this is why they havent told us what they are doing up there. after there is no food or water for man then the spirits will fool mankinde to worship them again. man will be forced to worship them to survive. the ufos are not here to help us at all, this is why the goverment is not saying enything. but they know whats to come. when i found a native at the indian museum i did not tell him what i was doing. i just whanted the true meaning of the rock art. he told me then it all made since. now after he knows of my work he will not go on the mountains with me enymore. that should tell you something. when you start talking with a native and he starts talking about space ships .. walk away.. he dose not understand .. but if you talk with a native about this and he walks away thats the man you whant to talk to. becareful of people who say space ships for if they truly understand this they will not lead you in that direction. i have seen the spirits aka ufos and i know what they are. people now a days do not take the time to understand whats TRUELY going on. they take the word of someone trying to sell a book or dvd so they are ignorant to the fact. they did not take the time to study ufos and there history nore see them almost everyday like i have. because of people like that it is missleading everyone in there path. soon they will understand that the person they listened to were wrong, but by that time it will be to late. in order to eat they will have to shed the blood of there children like last time.

in order to understand ufos research them and read the testimoney of people who delt with thim long ago. like the bible and dead sea scrolls and rock art. gen. 6 in the bilbe is a good place to start. you see the rock art is photographs of what the gen. 6 is talking about. but because people have strayed away from the bible and people trying to explaine revolations like the grate beast that is about to come, they think apache helicoptors instead of intrepating what it really is.

my guess that it will be really hard to find a true native to tell you the truth, i was lucky but like i said .. i dident tell him who i was and what i was doing. now he look at me with fear. for he knows i understand and whats to come and thinks i will be one of the first to be taken up by thease creatures like the hohokam and mayans to be judged in the sky.

thank you again and hope this helps.

jeff woolwine
www.petroglyphsinthesky.com"

As you can see this sounds pretty heavy. Now--according to him--we not ONLY have to worry about psychopaths in power destroying the web of life and the soul, but ALSO 'spirits in the sky' intent on further exploiting our wretchedness and blood-thirsty!
What do you think of his take on this?

peace

Juliano


Offline juztme

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2010, 10:02:08 am »
Oh dear, can NO one help me with this?

Offline earthw7

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2010, 01:45:50 pm »
As native people we don't have to say anything
In Spirit

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2010, 02:17:03 pm »
As a Euro member of NAFPS, I'd like to add:

The man is full of it. All he presented you with is a crude concoction of garbage and sick fantasies, garnished with racist notions. He's as good as his abysmal spelling abilities.

Help? What help do you really wish to receive? I suppose you will gladly continue to believe in anything which sounds appealing to you.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2010, 02:36:26 pm »
The good news, not even the UFO crowd give this guy any credibility. Google his name and add fraud or fake to see how many people accuse him of faking evidence.

Like the others, I wonder why you think we should give that racist ignorant crackpot any of our attention.

Offline juztme

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2010, 08:49:02 pm »
HI--I honestly didn't mean to cause any offence. Originally I am just honestly looking for Native people to tell me if they know of history of their people and ancestors with UFOs. It is hard to know who to trust asking this question because as you here have expose Dr Boylan and 'his Indians'--you claim all that is new age phony and it does look that way, and now this guy.

I was shocked by this guy's worldview --ie., the petroglyphsinthesky guy. He is obviously coming from a Christian perspective which demonizes everything, especially spirits connected with earth etc.

So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2010, 09:27:54 pm »
help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?

.... harrrumph .....

Offline Diana

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2010, 09:41:20 pm »
So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?


There is no Native history of UFOs' or their occupants. UFOs' are a white mans fantasy concept and a rather silly one at that.



Diana

Offline juztme

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2010, 10:21:02 pm »
So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?


There is no Native history of UFOs' or their occupants. UFOs' are a white mans fantasy concept and a rather silly one at that.



Diana

In what way do you mean this? Please ---youll dont think to be rude because your 'Native' i know suffering too, and am human. I am trying to be honest here and asking for help. This thread is for help with research. And I am 'mixed race', I am not 'white'

So how do you mean UFOs is a white man's fantasy? That makes no sense. UFOs which means unidentified objects in the sky are seen all over the world! You can see them on videos, read about peoples experiences seeing them, and actually making contact with beings who are their occupants--One of the most powerful mass sightings was The Phoenix Lights in 1997 where thousands of people white and other colours would have seen this 'otherworldy craft'--what is it?

In South American 'shamanistic' art we see UFOs depicted in visions: Some Important Iconographical Motifs: Space-ships




Are you telling me that these strange events in the sky are only a modern whiteman's fantasy? Not from what I am learning they are not
Exploring African and Other Alien Abductions

« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 10:26:37 pm by juztme »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2010, 10:48:32 pm »
"UFO" just means "Unidentified Flying Object". While it is true that lots of people, of a variety of cultures, have reported seeing odd lights in the sky, or other weird things that are "unidentified" or of unclear origins, that doesn't mean all, or even any, of these people assume anything odd is extraterrestial, or spacecraft, or any of the other things you are implying. Different people and cultures have different explanations for what those people may be experiencing, and why, but this forum is not about that stuff.

This is a forum for researching and exposing frauds, exploiters and predators. We're not here to explain UFO phenomena or drug experiences. If you are interested in the issue of abuse of ayahuasca, or ayahuasca tourism, you can go to the main page and search on those things.

You seem to be unclear on the purpose of this forum. Please go read the introductory topics that new members are required to read. If you are still interested in participating, please introduce yourself and stick to topics that are in line with the purpose of the group. Thanks.

Offline nemesis

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2010, 08:40:49 am »
Personally I think there is probably a link between various cults and religions with UFOs and aliens as a central theme and the covert or overt use of certain powerful psychoactive drugs.

Of course you do not have to use drugs in order to have a cult that promotes the idea of aliens and UFOs but it certainly helps to convince people who are in the "inner circles" of the cult and it also helps explain why apparently intelligent and discerning people in cults possess unshakable beliefs in aliens.

Anyway, this is just a little theory of mine.

I am happy to share my little theory with you for what it is worth.  I am not native and do not claim to have any special knowledge, just an interest in how drugs can be used to manipulate people.

As other have said, this forum is not really the place to come for help with your research as the main focus of the forums are to support native people in their battle against fraud and cultural appropriation and to expose predators.

Offline juztme

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2010, 09:53:30 am »
Well it is a question----and I suppose I was thinking that this place did have native people who li9ked to expose 'plastic shamans' hence it makes sense i would ask this question here.

I am shocked that IF these ones here go on about 'Ayahuasca abuse' are native, because any real indigenous person would know that these plants are sacred in indigenous cultures, used for healing and so on.

But I only showed that as an example of the only in-depth example of the connection between UFOs and indigenous people. I am not saying ALL people who see UFOs take entheogens.

The bottom link was an actual UFO event at a school where children saw UFOs land and occupants get out.

If poeple aren't ieven curious agbout this I find that a certain deadness is afoot!

Offline nemesis

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2010, 11:44:59 am »
You seem unable to grasp basic information that people have kindly taken the time to provide.

I find your last post arrogant and offensive.

Why on earth should native people respond to demands for answers to questions that have nothing to do with them and that demonstrate racism and stereotypical fantasies about native people on the part of the questioner?

You are the one who is interested in UFOs, not native people.  What on earth makes you think that native people should be interested in your obsessions about UFOs?
Quote
I am shocked that IF these ones here go on about 'Ayahuasca abuse' are native, because any real indigenous person would know that these plants are sacred in indigenous cultures, used for healing and so on.

Nobody is questioning that some plants are sacred.  These plants have been used for generations within some native communities as part of their religious ceremonies. This is an entirely different thing to ayahusaca tourism, where anyone pays a fee (usually a lot of money) to take part in some ceremony or other that has nothing to do with their community or the community of the person charging for the experience.

You have a lot to learn yet you seem unable to hear what people here are saying.  I do not understand why you bother to ask questions if you will only actually listen to answers that conform to your perspective of the world. 




Offline educatedindian

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2010, 01:56:39 pm »

So OK let's please then forget him, and remember my original intent is help with my research into the authentic Native history of 'UFOs' and their occupants?

Unfortunately this guy is fairly typical of the type of person and the quality of research and evidence they have. You probably won't find any topic which attracts more cranks and crazies. Some are exploitative, and we are happy to expose such people. Many are people needing professional help who have found an unfortunate obsession with the topic and often get used and abused by exploiters.

A great many people, everyone from Native elders to Carl Sagan, admit the possibility of beings on other planets. The problem becomes weeding out all the loons and poor and even faked evidence. You need to likely start by looking at better sources. I frankly wouldn't trust anything online on the subject that is not either an astronomy website run from a university, or the most carefully gathered traditional accounts of elders, written up by anthropologists acting in good faith and with rigorous standards.

The absolute last place you should look is any UFO enthusiast site because 99% of them will be complete garbage, run by nuts who want attention and sometimes cash. As far asking Native people, many will be reluctant to talk about traditional accounts because we've seen so often they get misread, twisted, and lied about. On top of that, so many will read into any account of contact with spirits and insist "those dumb Indians were really worshipping aliens." The crude racism of many UFO lovers is quite common, all kinds of stereotypes about primitives coming into play.

Again, if you are serious about this, your best bet is an astronomy or anthropology site run by academics.

Offline tecpaocelotl

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Re: history of Native Peoples and UFOs and their occupants research
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2010, 10:17:03 pm »
Looking at that last article about the "South American 'shamanistic' art", I have no idea what tribe (important factor for evidence) this Pablo guy (the guy who did the paintings) is from except that the article says he's a "Peruvian Shaman", which doesn't help your case if you're trying to "convince" us that there is a native/UFO connection.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2010, 10:20:26 pm by tecpaocelotl »