Author Topic: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat  (Read 85454 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« on: October 28, 2006, 08:10:59 pm »
Got a request about him. We used to have quite a bit on him in the older groups that's been lost from the hacking and censorhsip attempts. Anything you have on him, please post or ask around from people who might know. Here's what I was able to find.

Ale's site has a warning in Italian. Here's the usual mangled Google translation.
"Medicines Story, also famous like Manitonquat, are an American white man who makes itself to pass for a Man Medicine Cerimoniale Wampanoag. Its true name is Francis Talbot. Talbot has found a fertile land for its illicit business institution them in the Northeast of the United States. In that area, where not Americans are nearly more NATO you, the communities of the little remained are dispersed and therefore also the traditions, have been relatively easy for he, under the instructions receipts from an other famous truffatore, Sun Bear, to assemble a group of persons with distant Indian origins but absolutely in the dark of the traditions of their people and debit life to a circle of it follows to us.

The spiritualit?  diffused from Story Medicines not even far does not remember nobody of those pertaining to the Nations of the Northeast, is but a crucible of New Age and Lakota pseudo-traditions. The Wheel Medicines (Wheel of the Medicine) as an example does not belong to the East coast of the United States, but to the great praterie. No Old of no Nation Indiana d' America never mischierebbe two distant and various spiritual traditions therefore! Story medicines ago because: to) it is not Indian, therefore of frega. b) its follow to us or they are not Indian neanche, or have so lost contact with the traditions of their people that they do not believe is then therefore important. That that Francis Talbot is making, to make to pass not Indian for such and misleading Indians who try to find again their cultural traditions, are quite the new archetype of genocidio the cultural one that the New Age is perpetrating to the damages of the Indians of America.
Not content to make moneies through books and seminaries that diffuse false conceptions on the Indians of America (without not to pay the taxes because, misusing the name of the Wampanoag religion, Talbot is successful to make to record its enterprise as non-profit), Francis Talbot/Story Medicines succeeds also to infiltrate itself in (and it makes yourself to pay from the State for) programs of riabilitazione for imprisons Indian and of recovery of alcoholics and drug addicts to you. To take advantage for persons with serious problems that try to hard work to re-enter in the society and dargli to drink falsate versions of their ancestral religions is to say little infame.

As often it happens with the santoni of its type, also relationships Story the Medicine with its follow to us and the real one to be able that it has on they is nebulas. It will be opportune to remember that the “master??? of Story Medicines has been that Sun recently denounced Bear like ciarlatano from its same daughter: Winona LaDuke, famous activist enviromentalist American. Sun Bear had the deprecabile habit to be useful sexually for the women who took part to the rituals from he officiati. At the moment of its dead women it was under process for four sexual violences, between which that one of one child of fourteen years. Between the seminaries held from Talbot/Story Medicines, us of are such regarding the sexuality RESERVE YOU
Map of the Situated one

Book reviews.
"It's too bad that Medicine Story Manitonquat Francis Talbot had to go and change perfectly wonderful creation stories to make his book more marketable. This book is published for children and it is reinforcing the stereotypes the dominant culture has of Indian Peoples."
"So sad that people who read Return to Creation believe that Francis Talbot is sharing actual indigenous wisdom. What he is sharing is new age philisophy that has had a detrimental impact in Indian Peoples. I'm pretty confident that those giving positive reviews of the book did not grow up in an Indian community (a real one, a rez, reserve or in Indian Territory). It continuously surprises me that non-Native Peoples feel they have the right to dictate to Indian Traditionals. Francis Talbot is an exploiter. He is doing more harm than good in the prison systems and exploits the prisoners as well, bilking donations to fund a program that consists of him going into prisons and talking about himself. I feel bad for the people he has managed to misinform with his hogwash. I feel bad for the indigenous community and prisoners he continues to profit from. I am glad to know that the American Indian Movement is compiling information on his nefarious behavior."
"I found a lot of untruths in this book when compared to Tradtitional Wamponoag teachings. For example, we do not encourage our men to sleep with other women when their wives are pregnant. I have liitle respect for an individual who would distort his culture and teachings to make a buck. He partakes in the capitolism he claims to detest."
"Medicine Story has bastardized the Wampanoag culture with this book. I have no respect for a Person who sells ceremony while the People are starving. He is a culture vulture."

Also notice the book's put out by the Bear Tribe. Talbot got his start with Sun Bear.

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2006, 08:37:22 pm »
These are
a) excerpts from several German language sites with info on Manitonquat promoting events with him

b) info on ZEGG (Centre for Experimental Culture Design) and the related project of Tamera, as Manitonquat/Medicine Story cooperates with them on an apparently regular basis (e.g. by appearing at ZEGG's summer camps).

ZEGG is rated a destructive sect/cult, for example by:
Unfortunately, all critical material I found on the internet is in German language.

Please also be warned before reading that some of this may contain very descriptive language.


An Austrian site. Their c.v. info of Manitonquat reads as follows:

"Manitonquat is an elder of the Wampanoag Indians, a storyteller, co-founder of the Tribal Healing Council and a member of the Association for Humanist Psychology, a Re-Evaluation Counselor, a teacher, and an author.

M. has been editor of Akwesasne Notes for a long time, the official newspaper of the Mohawk nation. His work contributed to make it possible to revitalize the cultural values of the Indian nation with legends and ceremonies. After completing his course of studies at Cornell University/New York, he ran his own theatre, was an author, a film director, and an actor. Later on, he turned his back on all this while on a search for social values and started to concentrate on his Indian roots. He started to lead sweatlodges and other ceremonies, to tell stories, to use the talking stick and to teach co-counseling. According to his vision, he began to travel, to give lectures, and to work with young people and convicts. His openness and generosity go beyond ethnic, political, and religious borders. In this way, people form talking stick circles, healing circles, and healthy human relationships.

Manitonquat Medicine Story is the author of several books: "Return to Creation", "The People of the Morning Light", and "The Circle Way" - books full of wisdom which have been translated into several languages already.

Story is accompanied on his travels by his Swedish wife Ellika Linden. Ellika is an author of theatre plays for children, often on Indian topics, she makes dolls and masks. She leads theatre workshops and seminars on female spirituality and, together with M., she leads courses on re-evaluation counseling.


"During the afternoon, there was an invitation by Manitonquat who introduced co-counseling, a very effective possibility to deal with conflicts which relies on mutual listening very much.

In the evening, there was Manitonquat again. In the big tent, he reported about his life and about his projects.

"Religion is how you live your life, and not what you say or believe."
Manitonquat is an elder of the Wampanoag Indians, a story teller, co-founder of the Tribal Healing Council and a member of the Association of Humanist Psychology, a re-evaluation counselor, a teacher and an author. ....
[The rest is a repetition of the text already translated above.]

More info on Manitonquat and his schedule: "


"At the beginning of this morning, we welcomed Manitonquat and his wife Ellika.

M. just arrived from his own summer camp in Mecklenburg. He has just published a new book, "Changing the world", which researches the meaning of tribes for a worldwide cultural change. He is of Indian descent from the tribe of Wampanoag Indians. He is visiting us regularly since many years and shares his stories and experience with us. He will spend the entire next week with us and we are very glad about this."

This is a comment by Manitonquat himself, written in English language. The CD advertised and praised at this site is done by ZEGG.

"Congratulations on your book. It happens I am working on a booklet about "The Circle", and there is a part about singing which you are welcome to use in whatever way may fit your needs. I am sad we won`t be singing those songs at sea on the Kairos any more, but I will be glad to have the songs in a book so that I can give my circles here the pleasure of some of that music.

In Germany, ZEGG, one of my favorite communities, has a marvelous chorus performing a wide range of international music, especially African, American Indian, and spiritual songs and mantras. They have compiled their favorite songs in a book which would be wonderful for any community to have. There is really nothing like singing to bring folks together!

Manitonquat, Wampanoak tribe, USA"

« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 01:48:33 pm by Ingeborg »

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2006, 09:22:54 pm »
This is a site run by an Association for Mental and Psychological Freedom e.V. (a c503) researching dangerous religious cults and sects with an excellent and very extensive website.

"Tamera is a commune of strict vegetarians on a fallow area in Portugal, founded and lead by Sabine Lichtenfels ("Babette") and Dieter Duhm.
Both Dieter Duhm and Sabine Lichtenfels have gained a certain popularity with the issue of sexuality, they sold books, have made their fellow humans happy or provoked them.

'Both are co-founders and mental inspirators of the project which initiated ZEGG', Zegg website comments. Sabine Lichtenfels-Kleinhammes, alleged "protestant theologist and former prostitute" and "one of the leading ZEGG representatives and theoreticians" (source: ZEGGsismus brochure), also wrote books, for example "Save Sex".
Dieter Duhm started as a follower of Otto Muehl (convicted for sexually molesting children), than joined 'Bauhuette', and later on founded 'projects', like Meiga, ZEGG, and Tamera.

Tamera describes itself as a 'healing biotope' which apparently is meant to be a synonyme for a commune. At least theoretically, they are occupied with 'saving the world' with a 'concept of global healing'.

Camp ground

Tamera offers facilities at the level of a campground. "During summer season, we can host up to 200 guests in tents". The ordinary comfort gets replaces by high-faluting terms like summer university and IGF Institute for Global Freedom Work. In a "Peace School Mirja" and a "Youth School for Global Learning" they educate "Freedom Workers".

The Tamera website continues:

'IGF initiates an international network of cooperation to persons of indigenous nations, to scientists, peace initiatives and concerned individuals', and 'IGF ... spreads the 'plan of healing biotopes'. This plan grounds in the 'Political Theory' by Dieter Duhm. It bases on two ideas: All is one being. And: All life reacts to information. Both sentences meanwhile are supported by scientific results... A lived peace information praticed at a few places on earth will get into the organism of earth'.

The website offers numerous ideological texts with a flood of words which makes it hard to discover real information. But they offer almost any catchphrase for which persons interested in 'alternative offers' may look.
Financial situation

The financial situation is of importance since they are not only asking the usual prices for accomodation and courses, but already start to ask for donations at the website in a verbose way. It is to be assumed that these requests will be reinforced vastly at the premises. There are many possibilities to give Tamera money (cf below). One popular way seems to be the 'Tamera Certificate' at EURO 2,500. ... It also does not get specified whether this sum will be a donation or a loan. According to their balance, it must be loans.
Balance Dec 31, 2003:
Cash: EURO 62,994.66
Investment and Purchase of Land: 1,388,300.00

owed to banks: 0.00
owed to friends, external: 338,722.86
owed to friends, internal: 239,891.26
Tamera certificates, external: 304,533.63
Tamera certificates, internal: 568,146.85

This raises problems for future loan givers: Investments and purchase of land combined are less than what is owed. This means there are no securities. Investment and purchase sum do not have anything to do with the real value of the grounds, and say even less about an amount for which the grounds may be sold or which may be obtained in case of a compulsory auction.
In 2003, EURO 64,033.73 was spent on "complete payment of bank loans". At the same time, another EURO 10,809.78 were spent on "cost of financing". This should just about cover bank interest. The sum cannot include interest payed on EURO 1.4 million, as a usual interest of 5% would amount to EURO 70,000. Therefore, these sums apparently are loans given without interest. Loan givers thus do not have securities, and also do not receive interest.

From: :

'Taking the initiative for a peace project
When you support Tamera financially, you support the creation of a new culture.
Any sort of donations, money or goods, are welcome. There are the following possibilties of contributing to financing a healing biotope:
1. Tamera Sponsoring Circle
The circle was founded to keep Tamera as an international gathering place and to further develop the necessary infrastructure. Therefore we ask all persons who love the basic thought of Tamera and would like to contribute to its realization to join the circle with a regular monthly contribution.
All members will receive the IGF Magazine and an invitation to an annual meeting of the circle in Germany. And this is what to do....
2. Tamera Certificates
Those buying Tamera Certificates at EURO 2,500 each helps to keep Tamera free of debts and enables new projects. All owners of certificates are invited to Tamera for a week per year and will receive a copy of the IGF Magazine. Tamera Certificates may be sold.
3. Tamera Bricks
A symbolic brick at EURO 250 helps us to do more investment to build the healing biotope.
All owners of a Tamera Brick will receive the IGF Magazine and an invitation to an annual circle meeting in Gemany.
4. Tamera Sponsorship
For donations of EURO 50,000 and above, you will become a sponsor of Tamera healing biotope. We will plant a tree for every sponsor at our symbolic Sponsors' Avenue. Sponsors are invited to all public events in Tamera.
5. Sponsoring Tamera
[translator's note: this sounds redundant, but par. 4 uses the German word for sponsorship, and the English term 'sponsoring' for par.5]
Any way of sponsoring and the respective services in return will be mutually agreed upon (financial and donations of goods).
6. Project Partnership
Persons supporting a project of the healing biotope (e.g. Youth School, Peace Garden or Tamera Arts) with at least EURO 10,000 will become a project partner. Project partners will also be invited to public events at Tamera and will be informed about the progress of 'their' project on a regular basis

« Last Edit: November 12, 2006, 11:03:09 pm by Ingeborg »

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2006, 09:53:08 pm »

[This is an excerpt of a brochure on ZEGG. This excerpt contains some very descriptive language.]

ZEGGsism. Students of Free University of Berlin, 1995

The brochure starts with an inquiry regarding ZEGG's finances, the different companies founded by them, their system of 'networks', frequent speakers at ZEGG premises, and also portrays ZEGG's view of racism.

page 6
[the brochure dates from the mid-90ies]
"The premises at Belzig cost some DM 80,000 per month, therefore all permanent inhabitants must pay a monthly rent of DM 600. Prices for guests are not cheap either: DM 100 for an info weekend, DM 500 for a seminar of 4 days, and the Summer Camp in 1994 charged DM 1,010 for accomodation in a tent and up to DM 1,430 for accom in a single room for a fortnight."

page 41
"In their Networks project, ZEGG aim at a cooperation between like-minded groups and individuals. At a meeting in April 94, 'Stamm Fuessen' was among the participants."

[translator's note: This 'Fuessen Tribe' is a nuage project promoting sexual relations between adults and children of all ages. ZEGG have linked to them from their various sites until recently, but meanwhile took all respective links down. I saw the link to this outfit researching ZEGG sites in 2001/2002, but in October 2005 did not see any.]

page 12
Speakers listed
Among the speakers listed by the authors of the brochure are:
"Batty Thunder Bear Gold and Rose Thunder Eagle Fink from the Deer Tribe
This 'plastic medicine man from the artificially created Deer Tribe which does not have much in common with Native Americans together with Rose Thunder Eagle Fink - also from Deer Tribe - offer seminars with ZEGG on 'Indian-shamanic World View'. The 'medicine people' from Deer Tribe are criticized by many Natives because they have a reputation of de-politicizing their struggles or of trying to influcence them with reactionary input."

"Peter Caddy
Caddy - who died recently - was a former Major in Royal Airforce and in 1962 founded the 'Findhorn' community in Scotland which over the years developed into a multi-national NewAge company freed from paying taxes. Caddy was a theosophist and thus a follower of Helena Blavatsky according to whom there were seven "root races" following one another, with the "Aryan race" as the most developed one. The "Lower Races" (as for example: "Redskins, Eskimos, Papuas, Australians etc.") will have to die out according to this theory in order to make way for the "higher races", the fifth at the moment. In Findhorn, Caddy meant to lay the foundation for the sixth root race. For ZEGG he did lectures e.g. on "Liveliness of Nature"."

page 13 (list of speakers continued)
"alleged shaman Frank Natale"
"Manintonquat, story teller of the Wampanoag tribe "
[transl. note: as the brochure was published in the mid-90ies, this indicates a regular and long-term cooperation of Manintonquat with ZEGG]

page 22
Here is an outline of ZEGG views on racism, its causes and remedies:

"The responsibility of every person, but foremost of all women, according to ZEGG is to live their sexuality freely. This is seen as a prerogative for solving all problems in the world, like hunger, poverty, racism, war..., as a ZEGG quote shows:
'The real hunger in Third World Countries will not cease to exist until the hunger for love in Europe and the USA has not been stilled'. ZEGG-Magazine 4/92

'Racism, too, is to be seen as having its roots in the oppression of sexuality.' Janine Mueller, ZEGG-Magazine 2/92
[transl note: As far as the article is quoted in the brochure, it almost excuses violence against imigrants who get described as lusting after European women.]

"For Janine Mueller, female imigrants seem to be non-existant..., and women apparently for her are all white. As is the case with 'classic' racists, an alleged sexual threat towards white women (as perceived by ZEGG) is made by imigrants against white women... So if women eventually accepted their role, they could prevent racism."

page 18
"The Image of Women at ZEGG

According to ZEGG, a "liberated sexuality" is the way to ban every kind of evil from earth. This kernel piece of its ideology dates back till the beginnings of AAO [Action Analytic Organisation] which claimed that only during orgasm energy may flow freely (leanings to the thought of Wilhelm Reich!) In a pretty blind and indifferentiated way, the cause for social problems is seen in the oppression of sexuality. Any mechanisms of oppressions ... are disregarded.

Racism and the decrease of environmental conditions - coined as "eco catastrophe" - again are problems which the propagandists of "Let's screw the world free" see as being caused by the oppression of sexuality.

They develop a new concept of 'love' - a love which for them only exists between man and woman - which is meant to be the solution to all our problems. Women take a very special role in this concept. Sabine Lichtenfels, protestant theologist and former prostitute, who is one of the leading ZEGG representatives and theoreticians next to Dieter Duhm is occupied with the women's role in ZEGG and with "Spirituality and Eros".

In (ZEGG run) Meiga Publishing House, she published the books "The Hunger behind the Silence. Approaches towards sexual and spiritual realities" and "Save Sex. A Manifesto by women for a new sexual humanism", and a brochure titled "The Desert Camp. Project for contemporary spirituality and life research. A Place for all meaningful questions of survivial" (the place in question is the Spanish island of Lanzarote where an Eros Academy is situated). In her publications, she repeatedly emphasizes claims about the "real nature of woman" - in her view, it is most important for women to change. ...

Although we do not want to offer a public forum to ZEGG's theories, we below repeat several quotes, since critics have often been met with the reproach of having taken sentences out of their context. ...

From "The Hunger behind the Silence" by Sabine Lichtenfels:

"As long as women do not have a positive relationship to sex, as long as they do not accept and approve of it they essentially are made of sex, pure sex, as long as they do not see their responsibility here but hand over responsibility and management to men, as long as women do that they will not be able to step out of their guilt dilemma. Almost all women do not want to accept their basic sexual nature. This is where their shame and self-condemnation have their roots. The women's actual reproach against men is not: You are using me as an object! This is just a justification born from repression. The actual reproach is: Why don't you do it [intercourse] now? Why don't you do it right? I want to be your object of lust. Much more than you think. If only a man understood this to its full extent! Only then I will feel whole and recognized as a woman. Only then I will feel roused. Where he knows to treat me wholly as "his piece" without violence and without contempt, only there he will touch me wholly.

A woman does not like to see this inner truth. An immense feeling of dependency rises in her when she looks into these depths of her soul. She feels internally dependent on him doing it. At first she will hate this dependency and therefore she will fight this inner truth with all her strength.

Only when she gets to the bottom of this inner truth she will be able to stop following a trace of self-humiliation, only then she will be able to discover her actual freedom and heightening which lies in her sexual nature. Only in integrating her basic nature she can arrive at a real indepence".
(page 77/78)

« Last Edit: November 13, 2006, 02:00:11 pm by Ingeborg »

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2006, 10:34:35 pm »

page 19:
And worded slightly differently:
"Only in sex I am completely woman. Here is my source of revelation. And it is a very elementary one, unsentimental and in fact not very mystic. It is here where I find an actual trust in myself, my desire, and my fulfilment. Why doesn't the man see and accept that my body fully yearns for this elementary, objective, purely material fulfillment? It wants to be taken care of, served and treated and used accordingly. Sometimes I doubt, men and women only want this one thing. I think, women want it far, far more." (page 79)

One of the numerous examples for Lichtenfels' fixation on female sexuality only being imaginable in regard to the male sexual organ. It is also quite apparent which pressure this puts on men.

"A sexually mature women wants the token of the man that his phallus stands up only through her presence and his lust. Basically, a woman wants a 'decent erection' in a man. If this was not so complicated for both sides, hampered by stress, anxieties of failure, shame and much more, how refreshingly simple the contact would be. This is the source of her acknowledgement and therefore she will see she gets it. Because if she does not get it for some time, she will be missing something essential." (page 83)

A last quote from her book to show what Sabine Lichtenfels sees as "female identiy and sexuality":

"Let us have a woman speak from her deepest soul: to say it dramatically, only in sex lies my actual dignity and honour as a woman. The dignity of a woman always has got a hole. This is not dishonouring, but honouring me." (page 78)

page 20

In ZEGG's worldview, a woman is no more than sex, although women will repress this basic necessity and they refused to accept this. Only when women can accept this and let it happen, they can accept themselves. Due to traditional repression of their basic nature, women will have feelings of guilt and of contempt for men. If women succeeded at actively accepting this, men and women will not have to despise each other any longer, as women experienced acceptance and confirmation only in a man's desire - according to Sabine Lichtenfels.

Such theories reduce women to an object status and a willful body on claims of an alleged nature of woman. ...


"Politicizing Psycho Cults
The "Association for Spreading inaccepted Insights" and ZEGG (Centre for Experimental Culture Design)

These two cults do not have much in common on an organisatory level, but belong to the category of politicizing psycho cults. These groups have been founded by frustrated former leftists. They have a strong orientation towards guidance from a leader and an ideology which basically is nothing more but "screw yourself free". This often includes disregard of personal rights and is combined with considerably authoritarian elements. This is where they have a connection to the extremist right. ...

ZEGG: Centre for Experimental Culture Design

ZEGG comes from the same roots. It has its origins in the "Action Analytic Organisation" (AAO) run by Otto Muehl. This cult had its centre ... in Burgenland (Austria), later on at Gomera. After Otto Muehl and his wife Claudia Muehl were accused of rape, a group lead by Dieter Duhm split and left. Duhm is now leader of ZEGG. The Muehls were sentenced to prison for raping minors.

Although ZEGG has tried to distance themselves from this past, the relationship of this group towards "sex with children" is still unclear: "Free love also means the snesitive introduction of chidren with this issue".
Even though they refused the "Fuck Lists" maintained at AAO, a kindergarten run by the Cologne ZEGG chapter "Sex Peace" was closed as the staff had molested children sexually. A 4-year-old said in court: "It was all the nursery school teachers there, all of them did that".

Soon after the border of German Democratic Republic opened, ZEGG bought premises at Belzig which were formerly used by GDR secret service.

In Hamburg, ZEGG recruits a good part of its membership, so for example with its MEIGA Summer Camp ("Give love a chance")

Article taken from: Antifascist Information, Organisations of the Extreme Right in Hamburg, No 1, dd: June 2, 1995. Editors: Alliance Not an Inch to Fascists, c/o Schwarzmarkt, Kleiner Schaeferkamp 46, 20367 Hamburg

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2006, 10:59:34 pm »
Excerpts from a book:
Nordhausen, Frank
von Billerbeck, Liane
Psycho Cults. The Practice of Soul Catchers. 1997
(German language, found at:

page 170:
ZEGG is run as a Limited.

page 172:
"Dieter Duhm, born 1942, is a long-term disciple in the esoteric scene with quite a past. His credo is: 'There are more people dying because of unfulfilled love each day than from car accidents'. His solution for traffic accidents, violence and each and any ill is simple: sex - because 'sexual energy is healing energy par excellence'."

Paraphrased: In 1978, Duhm founded a commune called Bauhuette which became infamous for sado-maso sexual practice and an epidemic of venereal disease which they allegedly cured on their own. Bauhuette went bankrupt and closed down.

In 1988, he founded the project Meiga in which Duhm and several former prostitutes were the leading figures. "In a 'Manifesto for a new sexual humanism' titled 'Save Sex', Duhm's intimate friend Sabine Lichtenfels and 9 other women demanded a "transformatory brothel": "Some women co-thinking our issues are working to prepare an alternative brothel." For: "The brothel is the other side of marriage. The issue of sexuality can be solved neither here nor there."

page 173

"The former theologist and former prostitute [Lichtenfels] describes what this may mean: 'Sometimes I understand those men who do not ask anymore but simply act. One calls this rape. I swear by all that I have seen and heard: Not in every rape the man will be also guilty [translator's note: this is no error in translation - it does say: ALSO guilty!]. Oh this insanity! Of course violence must disappear, but this will only work if and when a completely new and radically positive way of thinking regarding sex is spread'.

The crude theses regarding sexual violence are flanked by insane comments about AIDS: As the disease could not be traced down, 'like cancer and much more', to 'something ... like a virus' but was 'a special case of the usual sexual misery', it was 'the best and most lasting protection' to lead a 'free, fully lived sexuality', since: 'AIDS of course can be cured' - by sex!'."

pages 175-178 (mostly paraphrased)

On the pretence of building an ecological project, the Belzig premises were bought by ZEGG who at once started their commune of free love. Some guests commented in disappointment that the issue was not free love, but that ZEGG only sought to discover their weak points in seminars to use them against persons afterwards and bind them to the project. Some even spoke of brainwashing, as participants were expected to tell the others about every thought and feeling, and those who refused were accused of suffering from severe mental problems.

ZEGG also used nuage paroles to promote their project in the neighbourhood: their premises were announced as a pilote project for a "new society", they demanded an "overall theory of ecological wisdom", a "global transformation", the "new conditioning of human beings". Their "gospel of happiness by 'liberating sexuality' mixed ... everything which seemed to fit: Herbert Marcuse, Wilhelm Reich, Rudolf Steiner and Rudolf Bahro, several ecological philosophers, and Indian shamans, several mystics, and even Bhagwan". In Duhm's theology of 'free love', erotic experience becomes a 'sacrament', the eros becomes "the beginning of all things", and persons will only become a "member of life and creation" when they can overcome the traditional form of living as couples. Because "human beings are, due to their mental nature, a thousand times hornier than any animal".

"Skilful marketing, colourful posters and brochures ("Life in a harem and the arts of love") soon lured in hundreds of tourists. At between DM 65 and 80 per day, they were made to sleep in tents in freezing temperatures, listen to pseudo-scientific lectures and help reconstructing the buildings."

"Many of the leading women in ZEGG, as [speaker] Lee Voosen confirms, are former prostitures, but she hastily adds: "Absolutely self-determined, no victims".

pages 180-182

This is an account given by a young woman who stayed at the ZEGG premises for a seminar. She describes how participants were manipulated and controled e.g. by drastically minimizing their sleeping hours and allowing them to rest not before 3 a.m. while waking them up again at 6.30 a.m.

The woman also confirms the technique of participants constantly being told to share every thought and feelings with the entire group. She recalls she felt 'under control constantly'. When she was so tired she suffered from hallucinations, she was not told to get some sleep, but instead people insisted on her sharing 'her images'. Another form of control was not to give single rooms to participants.

She also reports that refusals to have sex were not tolerated and met by endless discussions with the entire group taking position against her. She mentions that Duhm himself talked to her several hours after her refusal to have intercourse with him, during which he repeated his claim that she need not be afraid of AIDS as this disease was curable by having sex with him. Duhm also advocated unprotected sex as the only way to allow the 'energies to flow freely'. He also claimed to have cured numerous women of AIDS with sex.

According to her report, there were also special seminars called 'work camps' offered at prices between DM 400 and DM 500 for a weekend, during which participants had to do urgent repairs at the Belzig premises.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2006, 09:58:42 pm »
Found this on Batty Thunderbear Gold, a site in German selling spiritual tourism in Guatemala. This is the google translation, minus the travel descriptions:
...On this special journey we connect ourselves with the cycles of dreaming, which represent rich and the roots of our medicine way at the same time into the old time of the Maya back.
In agreement with the 7-Jahres-Zyklen of dreaming the older ones of the sun dance way of the sweet medicine the ceremony of the dream sign released the first time 1993. For the third time now we have 2007 the chance and the gift to bring and our individual Kraft and Schönheit awake dream us with our higher even in agreement. We dedicate this journey to deep dreaming, who we would like to be in 7 years, what from our potential we would like to carry out, and as we into continuous agreement with the beauty of our own nature to step would like.
...Time out, in order to increase our perception of the gifts of the life to be trueful and us.
We begin our journey in Palenque, the old Zeremonialplatz of the dreamers in the tradition of the Twisted Hairs. This alchemisch built city, in agreement with the sun, Venus and the moon, offers singular alchemische gates to us into the aware of its our higher same width unit....In this time we do not only enjoy strong old Zeremonialplätze....
On a medicine journey we connect Kraft of the travel with Kraft of the medicine of the Twisted Hairs: Teachings and ceremonies of this old tradition will lead our internal exploring and us by this adventure.
The journey leads us to the beginnings of the Twisted Hairs, the old rattling queue school, a Mysterienschule of the wisdom. Our Zeremonialplätze is in the old world of the Maya, the 2000-Jahre-alten strong civilization central America. Thousands of years old temples, forgotten in the jungle, invite to exploring, and divide their old knowledge and their energy with us, if we make ceremonies. Time, past, future, linearity lose their meaning and merge in one moment Kraft in the present.
We meet different teachers of the life, the strongest one of it nature. We dip into the jungles central Americas with their abundance of enormous plants and animals. During we comfortably on the rivers there sliding the river of the life hold we an eight-SAMness onto internal and outside areas, observe apes and turtles when playing, swim and are lazy at the sun, and enrich our internal areas with innumerable pictures, noises, smells and moments Kraft and for the Synchronizität.
The journey is suitable for ceremony experienced participants and apprentices as also for inexperienced searches. The three directors/conductors of the journey are experienced Roadpeople and you with old Teachings and ceremonies of the Twisted Hairs will accompany.
As search (r) you have the unique opportunity to enrich your life with the guidance and the wisdom of old knowledge and create your dream sign. As an apprentice of the medicine way you have opportunity to different gateway ceremonies, additionally to your dream sign. All we will be in connection with the strong and well-meaning ancestors of the old culture. Playful elementary naturenesses and plant spirit become friends and allied, and we extend our feeling of the Zuhauseseins and the family on this planet.
...Palenque is the old place of the dreamers and researcher of the time from the rattling queue school and the tradition of the Twisted Hairs...We use these first days for our dreaming, by working with the magic T-gates within the ruins, which permit journeys beyond of time and area into the nature of our Spirits.
...We tents in Ceibal for 3 nights, completely in the midst of spectacular nature. Beside the nearly irresistible plant world, which in-loads for playing, the temples welcome us for ceremonies and Nagualerfahrungen at the night.
...We integrate ceremony our realizations and illuminating and embody them in our nature as won light and wisdom.
...Zeremonial medicine
If you have, then bring the following medicine articles with: Medicine whistle, protection bundle and elementary crystals. Simple carving and sewing kit. Bring a piece to leathers, mark colors and brushes for your dream sign....
O R G A N I S A T I O N U N D L E I T U N G 
Sabina Crystal Cave Dreamer Tschudi
Batty Thunder Bear gold
Johannes star Light carrier Schröder
We offer the journey for German and English-speaking prospective customers. If necessary Teachings and information are translated in the group into both languages...
Batty, Sabina and Johannes lead since years medicine journeys in central America. Sabina lived over four years in central America, worked and traveled much there. All three leaders are experienced medicine people, Zeremonialisten and Roadpeople in the Twisted Hairs tradition. Johannes is additionally our travel physician, he is trained Homöopath, welfare practical man and rescue medic.
For questions and further information, as well as for English travel programs:
Sabina Tschudi and Johannes Schröder
Here to downloaden the program: medizinreise2007.pdf [2 ' 889 KB]"

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2006, 10:08:21 pm »
And here's Rose Thunder Eagle Fink.  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
None of them can settle for being named Bob or Mary, I guess.

Another German site, she's a ceremony seller of just about everything. And she works with ZEGG too.

More bad google translations. I know I could've asked you, Ingeborg, but I really needed the laughs.
"Women Ways
Women Ways is a seminar row to the different phases and topics arranged by rose ThunderEagle finch in the life of a woman:
Talk muck the Alchemie of the female cycle, Kraft of the monthly blood; Info. >>
The wedding basket the lap area, the key to even the woman; Info. >>
Lap strength - Sexualität & dreams our intentions & dreams carry out; Info. >>
Closing the rose the Menopause,the change in Kraft; Info. >>
This matriarchische knowledge wakes in us memory and protects woman strength, and functions for each woman, all the same from which culture area it comes.
Talk muck - the Alchemie of the female cycle
In old times women were more strongly connected with their body-own intelligence and could so their monthly bleeding than time of the cleaning, the renewal and the solidarity with the rhythm of nature celebrate.
 Nowadays this time of the special Kraft is to run off, best cleanly and discretely as unnoticed as possible. Into this darkness of the taboos banished, the Menstruation prepares for the Mrs. more pain than desire and is rather an annoying Ereigniss than a strong opportunity of the transformation.
This Workshop addresses itself to women those already and/or still bleeds, and which more want to know and understand about these urweibliche Kraft.
In this seminar we experience old techniques and ceremonies, us teach the creator strength of our blood use and our lap strength heal.
The theories of the Moonkiva Lodge and the indianisch schamanischen woman ceremonies contained in it make it for us possible with Kraft of the earth to be the moon and our blood in the agreement to integrate and the power of our woman wife. A special lap bundle, which we manufacture on this weekend, and a sweating hut, help to use us these Kraft in our daily life.
It concerns to understand themselves as soul in a female body and honour themselves and respect. If we do that, we take again responsibility for what we
are: “A Mrs. Kraft. “
Beginning of course: Thursday, 4. May 2006 around 12:00
Course end: Sunday,  7. May 2006 over approx. 17:30
Course fee: 270, - euro
After that 1. March 2006 280, - euro
(in the fee a contribution is contained of the line of the knowledge for a fund for retaining in Phoenix)
Accommodation and food supply:
in multi-bed bed  120.- €
Single room and double room on request
The wedding basket of “everything is born from the female one???
As women we are connected by our lap area directly with the life-donating Urkraft of the universe. We have in such a way an internal area, which can become consciously made, the center of our creation and regeneration strength.
The Matriarchinnen of the Twisted Hairs calls this internal area the lap area of the Mrs., the wedding basket. They understand it as the “source of the magic birth??? to draw for the birth female same width unit in all facet they teach us the Mysterium bear except physical children also us in all “faces of the goddess??? with true intuition from the internal knowledge to and thus our highest potential to live.
Another wheel of the knowledge speaks of the “refusal of the lap strength??? (Womb Resentment) and helps us to seize which prevents us to find in us the balance in order the “daily guerilla war??? between woman and man and between women, to terminate.
By getting involved in us and unfolding us, it is possible for us to meet the challenges of the life with creative solutions and to arrange a meaningful and rich life. We are able, humans in our surrounding field and those, in “our heart dance??? - our families and “love??? - to support and our career and our dreams to update. We can be a “nut/mother of the life???. “Lehr of wheels??? of matriarchalischen knowledge and woman bundle helps to align us, our Kraft. Schamani techniques of the Selbstheilung and personal ceremonies - among other things also a special woman sweating hut - permit us to integrate and heal the learning. We experience by practical tools and by convertible knowledge, how we can live our existence fulfill and more connected (he).
Voraussichtilicher date 2007
Lap strength - Sexualität & dreams
The grandmothers of the Matriachats of the “Twisted Hairs??? present us with age-old and established teachings, which illustrate us Mrs. our very own Sexualität and the consciousness of our dreaming in connection with our lap area.
The measure of our sexual liberty, our sexual connection to us, to others and the life, determines the measure of consciousness and matures with which we our sleep and being awake areas masters.
Both our Sexualkraft, and our dream strength are catalyzing forces - lap forces. Ever “more awaked??? the lap area of the woman is the more awake, more fulfill and more vital, unfolds it their life.
The grandmothers arrange their knowledge in the form of Teaching Wheels as “Sit down for Teachings???. In Mrs. Schwitzhütte, as well as by special ceremonies and shamanische techniques we will experience and will integrate the experiences and realizations.
In this way we experience by practical tools and by convertible knowledge, how we are irrevocable and remain in our life everyday life with this, our Ur-source in connection, and meaningfully and connected “dreams to know our life???.
The Mysterium of the creation strength pulsates in our lap…
“Everything is born from the woman???
Beginning of course: Wednesday, 12. July 2006 around 12:00
Course end: Sunday,  16. July 2006 over approx. 17:30
Course fee: 320, - euro
After that 1. May 2006 330, - euro
(in the fee a contribution is contained of the line of the knowledge for a fund for retaining in Phoenix)
Accommodation and food supply:
in multi-bed bed  155.- €
Single room and double room on request
Closing the rose - the change in Kraft - the Menopause
This is a seminar for all women, already in the change is and also for all women, who have itself already into the Menopause “in-born???.
The theories of the “Twisted Hair Grossmüttter??? to this topic are age-old and very strong. It is matriarchisches knowledge, which will keep its validity until far beyond our times.
The “older ones??? speak woman they of the new view of our life dream and of a powerful possibility of the transformation for the nature core of one teach ways of releasing and the Heilens and give tools, in order to make a harmonious and humorous birth possible into the Menopause. They speak of “bundles of the vitality???, by learning our rich life experience, our Sexualkraft and our wisdom to estimate and use.
 And they tell how we can use these “treasures??? to the probably its ours and the next seven generations. That is a challenge and a gift at the same time.
The life loads us in, more from the great changes and the new possibilities, which open thereby, of understanding.
We will some over welfare-end and balancing plants to experience. Matriarchale ceremonies and a special Menopause woman bundle give us the necessary knowledge and the “map???, in order “are called waves??? of our transformation to enjoy.
The knowledge of the “older ones??? helps us to get along us in this adventure of the change and our journey to the “woman of the wise blood??? to arrange simple and successful.
Voraussichtilicher date 2007
Rose Thunder Eagle finch
is native Austrian. It lives partly in Phoenix/Arizona, partly in Europe. Many years long it researched in the different schamanischen traditions. When it met its teacher “Swift Deer Thunder Strikes???, it found its “way with heart??? in the age-old theories of the “Twisted Hairs???. For now 20 years it studies the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path and is an authorized teacher of the Teachings. Their alive to light up open kind creates an area, in which it falls easily to extend in its “naturalness??? and particularly by joy to learn.
The origin of the knowledge
Indiani medicine men and - women created 1250 A.D the Rattle Snake School from the late masterspreading medicine company Twisted Hairs Council OF Elders came out. Their intention was to gain the mirror-image-ritual knowledge of different trunks and magic traditions to link and retain, in order it come-ends generations to pass on to be able. 1975 decided the Council of Elders of the Twisted Hairs to give a part of their knowledge kept secret for a long time outward and to make it accessible over „the Sweet Medicine Sundance Path “also white one. 1978 based
Swift Deer - Thunder Strikes, half blood Cherokee, which „Deer Tribe Metis Medicine Society ", which has today its seat in Phoenix/Arizona. It is youngest member in the Council of Elders of the Twisted Hairs. It represents also psychological and philosophical knowledge of our time, as well as knowledge from European, magic schools and eastern combat arts apart from the old knowledge.
Place of event:
ZEGG, Rosa-Luxemburg-Str.89, 14806 Belzig
Start with the car: on A 9 Berlin Nuremberg to exit Niemegk/Belzig. Far on B 102, on the by-pass road always direction Brandenburg. Departure hot spring to the left bend. Before the gas station right, 500 m turn easily uphill; at the next crossing right. After ca.1 km parking lot is on the right of the ZEGG.
With the course: take to Belzig, then bus to stop ZEGG or taxi use and/or ZEGG shuttles call: 033841-59510.
Further information:
Johanna Nickl
Luxembourg STRSTR Luxembourg STR. 89
D - 14806 Belzig
Tel.: +49(0)33841-595-67 
Their registration becomes with simultaneous payment of euro 100. - as crossed cheque, without (writings) valid. With refusal until 30 days before beginning of seminar a handling charge of 50 becomes. - Euro retain, afterwards the pre-payment.
For more desire and knowledge I announce myself obligatorily to the following meeting:"

Offline Pudow

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2006, 11:20:49 pm »
Hallo from a very new member from Germany.

Within a very short time I learnt a lot about "Manitonquat". His name seems to be rather unique - through Google you meet him and his many supporters in a lot (European) languages - same on Wiki. So his faked bio is to find everywhere. Through a German forum ( I came about his real name Francis Talbot and many interesting details.

My problem now is that I can't argue with "New Agers" and Manitonquat followers in my surrounding (there are many!) with rumours on my tongue i.e. without a PROOF of the facts being true that Manitonquat is white and his civil name is Francis Talbot.

Most of those details came from Ale's Italian site - maybe he can give an evident source for those facts which are of course outrageous for a "real believer". ;D

Thanks for listening  :), Pudow

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2006, 08:04:03 pm »
A translation of a German site where one of Talbot's followers ADMITTED they all knew he was white, and his amazing admission that they don't care he's a fraud, or if he's telling made up nonsense "so f--ing what!" He goes on to admit there are some cult like aspects, but is still going there.

http://www.indianer forum/index. asp
Dec 08, 2006, 23:38:40
"Right, after two months this thing has come to my knowledge and I want to contribute. About me: I am seventeen years, in every-day life rather a shy, dark clothed heavy metal fan, so at first sight I have little in common with you or "esoterics" in general. At first sight, anyway, because since 5 years I have been taking part in the "German" camp with (not of!) Manitonquat every year. And since 3 years, I am one of the organisers of the very same camp.

Well, several things:
1. That Manitonquat' s real-life name is Francis Talbot and that he isn't of Indian descent, is something I have known since long (and not just I, but several persons in these camps. When you ask him, he doesn't make a secret of it), and:
Well, SO WHAT? Apparently he lived with the Wampanoag for a longer period of time and this alone qualifies him as a "stroy teller" and to speak about his experience. I don't remember that he ever called himself a "shaman" or guru or whatever, but some of the other participants in the camp in fact
do (I admit, Bear Tribe, but [original English:] who f*cking cares, as long as they have been thinking and come to some sort of wisdom?)

Another issue: "Exploitation"
As I am actively involved in financial planning and financial administration of the camp I know that the payment for Manitonquat, Ellika and Emmy, on whom I will write something later on, are just about 10% of the fees, the rest is rent for the premises (yes, the meadows have to be rented, incredible, isn't
it), materials, tents, whatever is needed when you put up 150 persons for 2 weeks in one place (you know....) and refunding of costs for the organisers (telephone, traveling, meetings, like such....). So it's about EURO 50 for 2 weeks with 3 teachers. Exploitation? Well, if you think so...

Next issue: "Cultural mishmash"
Does is say anywhere that we do a "pure Indian culture"? Not that I know of. It also never has been a "Manitonquat camp", but a camp of everyone who participated, with Manitonquat, Ellika and Emmy (will get to her later) as paid teachers. This never has been explicitely mentioned up to now, but after some minor frictions with Manitonquat, we will not only practice this from now on, but also announce it this way (but this is not the place here to discuss this).
Furthermore, the programme is not "We're playing Indians" but "We try to live like we think is right and like we would to all the time, for 2 weeks". As a tribe, in which every person has a voice and will be heard by everybody. And such a life simply is rooted most deeply within Indian traditions, about the only culture of which we can crib/of which we can get info [the German word used carries both meanings!], in most of the other cultures it has got watered down (unfortunately) by Christianity, colonialism, capitalism, or
even destroyed so that it has only little in common with the basic thought.

Furthermore the programme is not "Manitonquat tells about himself", but rather partipants learn something about a method called "Co-Counseling" . Ill-meaning voices could call this "New Age Philosophy", but complaints are bound to happen. Those who want to learn more can come and get information, I only
explain as much that this is about unconditional and loving care (care!, nothing more) for the vis-a-vis. This helps to work on past injuries and heal them, in order to cope better with the present situation. (So it's similar to psychotherapy, just lacking the imbalance between "therapist" and "patient".)

This method is taught mainly by Emmy (ex-wife of Manitonquat, if you're interested, a down-to-earth woman from Boston, a social worker there, and she isn't into esoterics in a narrower sense, as far as I picked up), but is also practiced by Manitonquat and Ellika (this is her real name, at least that's
what she says, and would be funny, if she claims she comes from Sweden but nonetheless has such an "esoteric" name).

And if someone minds that Manitonquat "waters down" Indian culture or "exploits" it, just think about this: Why should Indian culture by the ultimate in wisdom? And why should "New Age Philosophy" only be bad and full of charlatans?
If someone does not claim to teach Indian culture but just makes the world a bit more agreeable, why shouldn't he mix the good things of each world view together and tell this other people? And if these people are glad about this and can make their lives better with this, why shouldn't they give something
for it? As someone said in this thread: There's nothing for free in this world, so why should this be for free?

So long, am looking for reactions!


PS: here's our official site:http://www.internat ional-camp. de

............ ......... ......... ......... ......... ......... ..
Dec 09, 2006, 03:30:48

"Well, so I only know the people I meet during the camps, but not the people who had bad experience with him. And even among those [in the camps] there are some really weird people who align their life according to this 'religion', but I don't believe this is really meant to be a religion, it's just that (okay, I know this sounds absurd) not everyone realizes that Manitonquat is just a human being, too.

I don't know much about his teacher, just met several people who have got to do with the Bear Tribe, but his teachings can't have been all that bad, since these are some of the best people I know. Right, so there are a few bad things about him in the internet. Just give me any claim and a week's time,
then I'll give you five proofs from the internet for anything....

I admit I don't know much (euphemism for "nothing at all") about the real existing Indian cultures in Northern America, but it is the only region where there is something like reminiscences of a "tribal life". (At least I as a transfigured European believe this, probably it isn't even true), resp. the only region on which one can get like information, albeit shady. Perhaps this is due to "Indiannness" being a trend, like, but my goodness, why not?

....P.S.: I must admit that these "village projects" sound somewhat fishy to me,  above all ZEGG, but also Tamera sound suspicious to me (place is in Portugal, BTW, not in Spain). And not because of "dubious practiques" about which I don't know anything, and I also talked about this with insiders, but because
these projects all in all act very cult-like and isolationist (you don't get access to Tamera as a "normal person", you need an invitation from an inhabitant and I think also several inhabitants have to approve of your being invited.)"

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2006, 11:11:39 pm »
Dire straits?

Another piece of news I found today:
IGF stands for Institute for Global Freedom Work, a project operated by Tamera which itself was founded by ZEGG. The message reads as follows:

"Urgent! Support for Manitonquat!

We received an urgent appeal to support our long-term friend Manitonquat. The story teller and spiritual teacher of the Wampanoag Indians as well as co-initiator of the Rainbow Gatherings needs USD 6,400 (approx EURO 4,888) urgently and quickly. If not, he will lose the premises for his modern tribe of Indians and non-Indians.

Manitonquat needs USD 6,400 within a week to pay the rates for the mortgage on his premises on which he and others live in America. They are in arears with two payments, and the bank threatens to confiscate the property and cancel the mortgage if the money is not paid within a week. For Manitonquat, this means the loss of all his reserves and also his old age security and his works.

He donates all the money he earns from seminars and events to the charitable organisation he founded. Manitonquat, Ellika and his former wife who is the president of that organisation do not have any financial reserves to prevent the loss of the property. Therefore, we ask everybody for support. Every little sum helps! And many small amounts soon will add up to the entire sum. Perhaps someone can even imagine to give part of the amount as a loan.
All those who are willing to participate please write an e-mail to and annouce the sum you are willing to give or directly give the money to me. Everything else will get sorted out per email. Please act quickly - I would like to be able to give Manitonquat the news on Thursday, Nov 30, 2006. Donations coming in later will of course be welcome, too. Thank you for your support!

About Manitonquat: Manitonquat is a story teller of the Wampanoag Indians, but he also had a career in white culture, was an actor and director and an assistant professor at university. He discovered the culture of his ancestors anew and became a bridge between cultures. Not only at university, but also with his books in which he teaches the Indian world view and makes it
comprehensible for white people and through his commitment in building communities and through his annual camps. With his healing work in prisons he helps Indian inmates to build up links with their cultural roots and to find their identity again. In Tamera, he is known as a friend for many years and is part of the board of trustees which presently comes into being."

Apparently those people at who are in the know did not quite pass on their knowledge about Talbot's wrong claims of Wampanoag ethnicity to Tamera? The above text, published only recently at the end of November 2006, also speaks of an even inforced involvement of Talbot with Tamera. Please also note that the text mentions that the endangered property was the home of a "modern tribe of Indians and non-Indians". I especially like the wording his tribe.

Offline Ric_Richardson

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2006, 04:25:52 am »

I think that many people do not know that Reserves, established under the Indian Act in Canada cannot be mortgaged or sold and are the common property of the particular First Nation.  If a property of this individual has a mortgage, then it is not lands set aside as a Reserve, under the Indian Act. 

Must be a pretty expensive piece of property though, if the mortgage payments are $3,200 per month!


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2006, 07:40:55 pm »
More translations from the same forum for Talbot followers. Talbot followers, see my answer to you below at the bottom.

the following answer to Jonus/Jonas of the camp organising team at the forum at http/www.indianerma

"@Jonus / Jonas

So just for the record, you say re your knowledge of Talbot not being Wampanoag, but white:

In fact I did not think it was necessary to shout the fact from all rooftops as it is insignificant[ /quote]

In plain words: the others may well continue to believe he is authentic?
Doesn't do any harm, does it?
Well, it won't harm the business, right. There might be some harm done, on the other hand, if and when this 'marginality' got spread. What you do is at least dishonest advertising, but there are also ways to phrase this much clearer.

As we can see in a recent info at http://www.igf- ?id=513 Mr Talbot even founded a "modern tribe of Indians and non-Indians" on his property.

So you wrote something critical re ZEGG and Tamera in your previous posts. Therefore you might be interested to learn that the above site announces that the "long-term friend" Mr Talbot will be sitting in the board of trustees presently established.

quote I.: If and when you know that Talbot is a white man, then why do you still advertise him as a Wampanoag elder at the website you linked?

answer Jonus: we're again at the point where you claim he doesn't have anything to do with the Wampanoag and I'm convinced of the contrary

No, we are at the point that you, in your posts here, admitted that you know that Talbot is not Wampanoag, but white. You did not answer my question.

Why does your group's website - which you are in charge of, i.e. you say it - continue to advertise Talbot as a Wampanoag elder? So, simply Wampanoag doesn't do, it's got to be a VIP - elder, keeper of the wisdom.

If it is merely an insignificant fact, then why is Talbot still getting advertised as an elder and keeper of the Wampanoag's wisdom? There certainly is no harm in mentioning an insignificant fact.

[quote Jonus] Well, I know English fairly well and Italian all right ...

Knowing languages is always useful, and I am glad to hear that your English is fairly well and your Italian all right. I am just slightly surprised why you replied the following to the person who spotted the entry at NAFPS and inquired about it with you:

[quote Jonas] ... I would say several things to the entry in that forum. 1. Could you perhaps try and do a halfways decent translation? I just about understood it, but it is rather long and complicated :wink: [/quote]

Now, isn't it a bit daring of you to then go and judge translations and label them "aggressive" ? But sorry, your English is "fairly well". So is mine. Then how about continuing this discussion over at NAFPS? People there will certainly be interested in hearing which ethnic affiliations are marginalities, why shouting from rooftops is not appropriate, and who is in a position and authorised to do what and what not. You can even talk to persons from various ndn peoples there and discuss with them what they need to care
f***-all about.

In one of your postings you mentioned you wanted additional speakers at the summer camp to educate the audience - well, people at NAFPS are very nice and will gladly help and give truthful information about their respective cultures. They also happen to be pretty modest and certainly won't ask more in the way of payment than Mr Talbot - what did you say he got, EURO 50 for two weeks? The prices you charge, as I noticed, do amount to EURO 480 for an adult for 2 weeks, 2 adults with up to 3 children will pay EURO 660 for two weeks, or 210 and 330 respectively for just one week. Since you say you are only 17, it's somewhat less expensive for you: people between 18 and 25 will pay EURO 252 for two and 126 for one week, and please do bring your own tent, tipi, or trailer.

So, please do make it over to NAFPS, we'd be glad to welcome you there.

And since we know Talbot's followers are monitoring this site, I'll give them an answer right now.

I'm planning to do a speaking tour of Europe once again this summer, in May and June. I'll probably be in Germany in early June, though the exact plans are not certain.

I'd be glad to speak to Talbot's followers at their camp and try to explain why what they're doing is not only wrong but considered deeply racist by virtually all NDNs.

Just as during last summer, most of the fees I make will go to a charity for Native kids, the Albuquerque Indian Center.

Maybe Talbot's followers would like to actually do some good for Native people, instead of just exploiting them for their fantasies and saying "So F***ing What?!" to Native objections?

Maybe, maybe not. My experience has been that most European Nuagers are naive and uninformed rather than deliberately evil. We'll see which the camp organizers are when they give us their answer.

Offline Ingeborg

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2006, 09:33:05 pm »

Up until today, Dec 12 2006, the German wikipedia entry on the Wampanoag carried a paragraph on Francis Talbot:

"Manitonquat "He who tells stories about the spirit" (English: "Medicine Story"), born 1929, member of the Assonet band of the Wampanoag tribe, studied at Cornell University/New York, was an actor, author, director, and had his own theatre. In 1970 he discovered his roots and began to learn from the elders of the Wampanoag. Later on he began to travel and teach. He taught "The Way of the Circle" to prisoners and youths in North America. Today, he teaches Indian culture and shamanic techniques and shamanic rituals in Europe . Since 1994, he has been leading seminars on sweatlodges, talking stick, and story telling."

This paragraph was deleted today after the author of the article had been informed that Francis Talbot is not a member of the Wampanoag and had been forwarded one of the postings of his follower (cf. above). The reason given for the deletion reads: "Manitonquat is no Wampanoag."

In the discussion to the Wampanoag entry, the author of the posting today wrote the following comment:

"Well, I wrote the forum entry quoted above, and if I had reason to believe it would be mentioned  as a source, I certainly had phrased it differently. I assumed I was communicating with persons who hold information and opinion in high esteem and who aren't concerned with arguing 'on principle'. I would also like to add that the accusations against Manitonquat are based on mere speculation, I did not see any source which proved that he "exploits" Indian culture(s) in any way without having asked or without being authorised." Athan (Jonus) Dec 12, 2006

Offline Loissa

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #14 on: December 14, 2006, 05:47:15 pm »
Sorry, my english is not so good, so I only send you an email from Manitonquat. I think, this makes everything clear.

„I don't know where this stuff comes from.  It seems to
be an insidious mixture of unfounded rumors and false
conjectures and guilt by association with others they
condemn.  Like all hate mail, the attacks are
anonymous, no evidenced is presented, no accusers
identified.  No one confronts me; the people don't
know me or anyone I know.  It feels like the old
McCarthy era where reputations were destroyed by
unknown whisperers.  I would like to know how you
became aware of it.  Our people would like to trace it
and refute it, as I believe there are well-meaning
people who put this out believing what they heard must
be true - without confirmation.
The truth can easily be found if anyone took the time
to investigate.  The correct source, of course, would
be my own tribe.  Here's some history:  when an
organization here in the northeast connected to AIM
did confront me 25 years ago, I demanded they bring
their charges to a council of our leaders.  It was one
of the largest meetings ever held at the Mashpee
tribal council. They presented their case, I showed
documents from the source they named which completely
refuted their charges.  I was strongly supported by
all our chiefs and medicine people, and the Supreme
Sachem (head chief) angrily denounced that
organization's leaders and told them he knew my work
and it was good.
Though they lost, some of those in that organization
said they would keep after me.  Only one of them, the
vice president, Big Toe, a Narragansett elder, took up
my challenge and investigated.  He came for a weekend
and learned all we do and then resigned from that
organization saying they had lied to him.  He was even
thinking of joining us and is still a good friend.
But over the years since then I would hear things
sometimes, people who don't know me attacking behind
my back.  No one ever faced me, no one ever
investigated.  I was hurt.  I kept telling my dear
friend Slow Turtle, the Supreme Medicine Man of our
people, with whom I worked closely, and he always said
I should forget it, not give them any attention or
energy.  He was probably right, but it hurt and made
me angry.
I believe the remaining leaders of that organization,
members of AIM, kept the attacks alive and I was put
on an AIM black list (together with some other good
people like Black Elk and Sun Bear, and probably some
true phonies as well, but I wouldn't waste my time
with that).  And still I was never confronted
directly, although a couple of sponsors cancelled
appearances because they didn't want controversy.  Too
bad, but I never blamed any of them.  The sister of
the leader of that organization kept his hatred alive
after he died and it affected a young man of my own
band who visited their band.  Without confronting me
he told other young men in Mashpee who now think badly
of me without knowing me at all or what I do. 
Some even began to insinuate that I might not be
Wampanoag, even though, unknown to them, a genealogy
had been done in my band that proved my heritage (I
did not ask for or want a genealogy done, nor would I
ask for anyone else's proof of their heritage, I would
only take their word), even though my family appears
clearly in the Indian census (Earle Reports) of the
mid-nineteenth century, even though I was the official
medicine man of the Assonet Band, working closely with
Slow Turtle and the Mashpee medicine man
gkisedtanamoogk, rebuilding our traditional tribal
The older people who were there 30 years ago when I
was helping to re-establish our spiritual ways in
Mashpee and then rebuild our Assonet Band, those still
alive, know me and remember.  Too many are gone now,
and most of the new youth do not know me and a few, I
fear, are swayed by things they have heard.
A man in the prison circle this morning said, "I don't
judge a man by what he says, but by what he does.  You
have been coming to us every week in every weather for
years and have helped me change my life.  Where are
those who talk about you?  We never see them.  Your
actions show us what is true and we know your heart."
One statement was that I use the prison circles to get
funds.  That is truly funny.  I wish I knew how to get
funding, but the fact is we have none except my own
support paid out of the legitimate work I do.   Where
is all this money I am supposed to be bilking the
people out of?  I wish they would visit me in my
little 3-room house I built myself in the woods with
no running water,  a 15 year old car and a wardrobe
out of the Salvation Army.  I live simply with few
needs, but I have put myself so much in debt trying to
support the prison program and the Nature School, that
it keeps me awake worrying.  All my savings for my old
age are gone.  But now I hear from people everywhere
who love and believe in me and offer help, and I am
hoping we will survive this crisis and go on.
It would be easy for anyone to contact the Director of
the Commission on Indian Affairs in Boston, who is
Slow Turtle's son. He could tell them the truth about
me and about our Wampanoag people.  But no one does
that.   It bothers me that this website offers two
negative reviews of my books and none of the many
positive ones.  These critical reviews were not made
by anyone who knows the ways of our people in the
northeast, or anything about the Wampanoag.  I have
glowing statements about my books from Supreme Sachem
Drifting Goose, Wampanoag scholar Dr. Helen Attaquin,
and my chief, Windsong Blake. 
After the first attack 25 years ago, Chief Windsong
gave me a supportive letter to show anyone who
questioned me.  No one ever did to my face, and
eventually after years of carrying it around with me I
lost the letter.  I don't want to bother my people
with this stuff.  They've had to put up with it for
all these years and it makes me feel bad, even though
I am not to blame.
There are a lot of really important things that we
need to have unity on and work on together.  The earth
is in jeopardy, thousands of species of our relatives
are becoming extinct, we are destroying our forests,
losing our topsoil, polluting our water and air.  We
are fighting each other blindly, abusing and
neglecting our children and our elders, destroying
community, making the rich richer and the poor poorer.
 What is needed is not more hatred, more separation,
but more understanding, more listening to each other,
finding our common causes and supporting them and each

Maybe you can contact him:, or the „Director of the Commission on Indian Affairs in Boston“.