Author Topic: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat  (Read 66475 times)

Offline webbydeb

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2006, 06:11:33 pm »
Wouldn't a Directory of Indian Affairs have a .gov email address?????  Certainly it wouldn't be a yahoo address.  Just my 2c.
Deb O'Keefe

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2006, 06:26:25 pm »
"Good people" like Sun  Bear?? Well, Sun Bear real namre Vincent La Duke was really Indian, but he was also a real fraud.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2006, 02:16:50 am »
Loissa, the very fact that he had you do this for him, rather than come here himself, that's a common tactic of frauds. They tend to want to appear "too spiritual" for politics, which to them (but not actual Native elders) is a dirty word.

Talbot does his best to avoid answering any questions. Along the way, he is sounding very paranoid when claims a Vast Conspiracy against him involving people that none of us have ever heard of.

"Like all hate mail, the attacks are anonymous, no evidenced is presented, no accusers identified."

That's amazing, four lies in one sentence. We've always been very open about who we are and we presented evidence *from the words of Talbot's own followers*. We don't "hate" him, we present evidence he's a fraud and a liar.

"I would like to know how you became aware of it.  Our people would like to trace it and refute it."

Simple. The sources are *your own followers* as well as every Native activist I've ever encountered who knew who you were.

So if we hear of you trying to track down and punish the followers of yours who admitted the truth, it will just show you to be using cultlike tactics.

"Here's some history:  when an organization here in the northeast connected to AIM did confront me 25 years ago,"

Talbot is doing exactly what he accuses others of. He's not giving any names, just accusing anonymous people without evidence.

"I demanded they bring their charges to a council of our leaders.  It was oneof the largest meetings ever held at the Mashpee tribal council."

What? Talbot is now claiming to be Mashpee? Before, it was simply Wampanoag, then it changed to the Gay Head Band, then Assonet.

"I showed documents from the source they named which completely refuted their charges."

Again, Talbot is doing exactly what he accuses others of. No naming of sources, so no one can check.

"Though they lost, some of those in that organization said they would keep after me.  Only one of them, the vice president, Big Toe, a Narragansett elder, took up my challenge and investigated. He came for a weekend and learned all we do and then resigned from that organization saying they had lied to him.  He was even thinking of joining us and is still a good friend."

This guy?
http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/wolfsong.html
"BIG TOE (Narragansett/Delaware):
Big Toe states that the crystal skulls were made by a society that lived in harmony, that lived very close to natural universal laws. The people who made the crystal skulls understood lasers and higher technology much better than we do today as we use our own advanced technology for destructive purposes. We can't even imagine the level of which this society had attained. They received their knowledge of the cosmic laws from the Stars, because that is where we all originate from and who was responsible for constructing the crystal skulls as a reminder of our cosmic connection."

Not the most credible guy. Whether he actually is an elder or not, his judgement is at least sometimes not very good. He works not only with frauds who endorsed a fraudulent crystal skull, he also did a CD with another fraud.

http://www.bmastudios.com/id19.html
"A meditational CD with the words and wisdom of Narragansett Elder Big Toe and featuring Kam Night Chase"

"I believe the remaining leaders of that organization, members of AIM, kept the attacks alive and I was put
on an AIM black list (together with some other good people like Black Elk and Sun Bear, and probably some
true phonies as well, but I wouldn't waste my time with that)."

Like Deb pointed out, Laduke was as phony as three dollar bill, and Wallace Black Elk had become an exploiter.

"The sister of the leader of that organization kept his hatred alive after he died and it affected a young man of my own band who visited their band.  Without confronting me he told other young men in Mashpee who now think badly of me without knowing me at all or what I do."

Once more, Talbot is making anonymous accusations so they can't be checked.

Loissa, why not ask him to have the courage to back up what he says, so we can check if they are lies or not?

And once again, none of these are any of the same sources we've been using.

"Some even began to insinuate that I might not beWampanoag, even though, unknown to them, a genealogyhad been done in my band that proved my heritage"

So how does he explain his own followers admitting he's a white imposter?

"even though I was the official medicine man of the Assonet Band"

Yes, yet one more of his ever changing claims of who he was. So far he's claimed to be:
Mashpee
Wampanoag (generic, no band claimed)
Gay Head Band
And now Assonet Band

"The older people who were there 30 years ago when I was helping to re-establish our spiritual ways in
Mashpee and then rebuild our Assonet Band, those still alive, know me and remember.  Too many are gone now, and most of the new youth do not know me and a few, I fear, are swayed by things they have heard."

Very convenient, claiming people who know "the truth" are gone. Peters has passed away.

"One statement was that I use the prison circles to get funds.  That is truly funny.  I wish I knew how to get funding, but the fact is we have none except my own support paid out of the legitimate work I do."

Iron Lodge has been trying for years to get the state to quit paying Talbot money for his prison ministry, and have a long list of complaints of the damage he's done to inmates.   

"Where is all this money I am supposed to be bilking the people out of?"

Let's see...Talbot makes regular trips to Europe and is trying to start his "own tribe".

"It would be easy for anyone to contact the Director of the Commission on Indian Affairs in Boston, who is
Slow Turtle's son. He could tell them the truth about me and about our Wampanoag people."

No one should be fooled by the official sounding name.
http://www.mass.gov/dhcd/components/Ind_Affairs/default.htm
"The Commonwealth of Massachusetts Commission on Indian Affairs (MCIA) was created by the legislature in 1974...The fundamental role of MCIA is to assist Native American individuals, tribes and organizations in their relationship with state and local government agencies."

State recognition of tribes or individuals, as we've noted many times, is useless, or even dangerous. It's often used to make groups or individuals appear legit when they aren't.

"It bothers me that this website offers two negative reviews of my books and none of the many
positive ones."

Why would we? The positive ones came from white Nuagers.

So Talbot is monitoring this website? Nice of him to admit that. Again, why is he afraid to come here? Why send a white European Nuage follower of his instead?

"I have glowing statements about my books from Supreme Sachem Drifting Goose, Wampanoag scholar Dr. Helen Attaquin, and my chief, Windsong Blake."

Once more, claiming endorsements from the deceased. Attaquin has passed on.
 
"After the first attack 25 years ago, Chief Windsong gave me a supportive letter to show anyone who
questioned me.  No one ever did to my face, and eventually after years of carrying it around with me I
lost the letter."

Pretty convenient.

Sorry, Loissa, but Talbot hasn't said anything but anonymous accusations and mostly claiming endorsements from people who are no longer alive.

He is also very conveniently leaving out one of the worse accusations against him. More than a few former female followers report he pressured or demanded they have sex with him in exchange for ceremony.

And no, for this charge we won't name names. It'd be immoral to demand we name victims of what comes pretty close to being sexual assault.

He also needs to explain his ties to a cult like ZEGG that abuses women and endorses rape.

Offline Mo

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #18 on: December 15, 2006, 01:17:23 pm »
the mashpee have just gottetn preliminary federal recognition. their rolls must be in top shape i would think. i'll contact them and see whether they endorse talbot.

Offline Loissa

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2006, 06:33:50 pm »
This is, what I found in the german forum: http://indianermagazin.de/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=180&whichpage=5, someone named Aberth asked Burne Stanley-Peters, President of Mass. Center for Native American Awareness about Manitonquat:

<<I like to get information about a man named Francis Talbot aka Manitonquat aka Medicine Story who said of himself that he is an elder of the Wampanoag native of the Assonet Band. Short time ago i've heard that hi is a fraud, not a native but just a white man, who calls himself an elder and storyteller of that tribe. So please, is it somehow possible to check this information?>>
Hello:

Medicine Story is a legitimate Native person from the Wampanoang Nation of the Assonet Band here in Massachusestts. We have heard stories about him over the years but they are not true. He is a Native Person and we are in contact with him all the time and he knew and worked very closely with my late husband, Slow Turtle.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Burne Stanley-Peters
President
Mass. Center for
Native American Awareness>>

If this is not the answer, which makes everything clear, I don't know, what I shall think about you.

Another thing is: I am an adult and I am able to decide by myself, when and if I poste something in a forum. Nobody says to me, what I have to do!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2006, 08:51:03 pm by Loissa »

Offline Moma_porcupine

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2006, 12:08:46 am »
http://www.avaloncity.com/MedicineStory/SprtSexuality1.html

I did notice this website describes Mr Talbot's workshops on Spiritual sexuality as being for "Allies of
Native women " which I would guess means he is teaching a male audience and not a female audience . A female audience would be more of a concern . The course description sounds a bit like basic life skills , such as learning to make healthy choices ,and there is no hint of anything  "hands on " . So I suppose it is possible some of Mr Talbots activities might have been misinterpreted . ( though implying any of this is "traditional teaching" is very questionable ,and some of the people he appears to claim as friends such as Sun Bear , (and others :o  ) don't help his reputation)

Even if Mr Talbot is recognized by the Wampanoag people , and some of these other concerns are a misunderstanding  , I have to wonder if charging a negotiable $500 a day for "Spiritual Teachings" is acceptable within Wampanoag traditions .

As I have always heard it , advertising and charging money for anything claimed to be traditional Spiritual teachings is considered offensive, degrading and exploitive . I don't know anything about Wampanoag traditions and culture , but as a lot of what he is teaching for a fee looks to be borrowed from other Native cultures , I guess the objections can come from other Native cultures , which do find this offensive   .

http://www.mcnaa.org/Speakers/manitonquat.html

Quote
Name:   Manitonquat (Medicine Story)
Contact Phone Number:  603-878-2310
E-mail Address: medicinestory@yahoo.com
Tribe: Assonet Band-Wampanoag Nation

Topics/Subjects:
Native American Spirituality, Religion, Faith; The Original Instructions, the Sacred Circle; The Path of the Heart; Native Childraising; The Story of the World, Black Elk's Vision, Wisdom of the Elders; Storytelling, Native literature; Thanksgiving ; Peace; Community; Education; History; Politics (federal recognition, sacred sites, casinos)

Will speak at:
Any and all -Institutions of Higher Ed.; K-12, High School, Civic Organizations

Fee:
Generally $500 per day, but negotiable for smaller groups with little funding


Will travel:
Within the New England area; and anywhere outside if transportation expense is provided.


Other Skills/Instruction:
I also do the following:  Storytelling, Wampanoag and other Native tales from Turtle Island,
Native American flute playing, and Native American poetry readings.

For schools I also can teach a couple of native songs and dances.

« Last Edit: December 16, 2006, 01:16:15 am by Moma_porcupine »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2006, 04:18:08 pm »
Loissa, why would you think what one member of one charity thinks would be all the answers we need? Especially when that charity sponsors Talbot's efforts to make money off of speaking about spirituality?

The list of groups that say Talbot is a fraud is much longer than those who think he's legit.

The list of people who say he is not Wampanoag includes the inner circle of Talbot's own followers.

Jonas, for example, says he is white and they all have known it for a long time.

He also says "So f---ing what?" to the question of whether he is a fraud or not, or his teachings are false or not.

Talbot asking you to come here says nothing bad about you, only about him.

Once again, I have to ask why both you and Talbot are avoiding the most important questions?

What about the accusations he abuses women, demands sex in exchange for ceremony?

Why does he work with ZEGG, an abusive cult who think there is nothing wrong with raping women?

If you can deny the own words of Talbot's own people, and if you and Talbot both avoid answering the charges of sexual abuse, then I know exactly what to think.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2006, 06:22:14 pm »
I hope Loissa or other people in Germany are still reading this thread. I'm starting to hear from people who know about Talbot's prison ministry. One person's story:

"Some actual prisoners that he works/worked with.  All of them are carded and were/are treated like crap by Talbot.  He belittles them and has complete disregard to the fact that they were  actually raised in their respective cultures and that they actually know what they're talking about. 

Also, there was a lodge recently constructed in Berlin NH by Talbot's brother (a white man who goes by the name of Raven.  His actual name is Jim Farnum).  The lodge was ridiculously tall and had some sort of bizarre antenna sticking out of the top. 

An enrolled Mi'kmaq (Joey Barlow, enrolled at Indian Island NB, he comes from a family of chiefs and ws raised by some very significant spiritual leaders) lowered the lodge by three feet a couple of weeks ago
after Talbot gave the inmates permission to stand in the lodge."

Found a site where Talbot and Farnum are selling ceremonies as part of workshops.
http://www.earthlands.org/learningtheland.htm
"Explore the connections between indigenous knowledge, spiritual experience, and conventional insights. This weekend will include the philosophy and wisdom of living close to the Earth and all Life. A series of practical field experiences are designed to convey ancient wisdom and sustainable modern strategies.
Learning the Land, September 15-17, 2006 Tentative Schedule
Friday, September 15th
7:30pm: Welcome and Introduction to the Weekend (Larry Buell, Bill Pfeiffer, Angel Russek)
Saturday, September 16th
9:00am: Indigenous Wisdom (Jim Farnum, Bill Pfeiffer, Marg Bruchach, Medicine Story)
12:15pm: Lunch
1:00pm: Spritual Wisdom (Rev. Steve Hermann, Ellen Hopman, Peter Champoux)
5:00pm: Light Organic Dinner
6:00pm: Sweatlodge or Wisdom Circle"

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2006, 04:46:45 pm »
More and more information coming out, from Talbot's ties to questionable groups to respected elders objecting to him to the damage he does to prisoners.

One account.
-----
"Talbot and Farnum attend the circle at a prison in Gardner Massachusetts where he allows a pseudo-Cheyenne warrior society to occur.  They have a head chief as well as chiefs for the four directions, a peacekeeper and dogsoldiers.

An enrolled Ho-chunk Sundancer was incarcerated in two facilities in NH and was treated with complete disregard and disrespect by Talbot which of course led to the non-Indian inmates treating him in the same
manner.  The Sundancers name is Billy Sun and he comes from a family of Sundance Chiefs.

All herbs and reading materials that the prisons in NH receive are donated and Talbot nor his organization supply them.  I find it interesting that Talbot goes into the prisons every week when he is in Europe a
great part of the year selling his interpretation of ceremony to gullible white folks.  His brother Jim Farnum was recently suspended from the NH prison system. 

An inmate by the name of James Mascetta, enrolled Abenaki, was incarcerated at the facility in Concord NH.  When he would oppose Talbots teachings Talbot would become irate and belittle him as well.  He
continuously attempted to divert the attention of the other inmates away from Mascetta's questions and accusations instead of answering him honestly.

Another inmate who wishes to remain annonymous (I can put you in touch with him) attended a number of Talbots sweats outside of the prison after his release and refuses to attend again due to the manner in which Talbot handled himself with a distraught and vulnerable woman.

NO respect is ever given to the ancestors of the northern facilities he attends.  He allows the inmates to conduct a psuedo-Lakota circle, no eastern woodlands songs are encourged, no encouragement to learn how to pay respect for the ancestors of those areas.

The sacred sexuality course is FOR WOMEN not for their male allies.  He believes he can do this because he feels he has 'elk medicine' which allows him to interact with women in an 'intimate' manner.

At a gathering a number of years ago a respected holyman from Canada was in attendance.  Mr. Talbot was extremely upset that this individual's teachings countered what Talbot teaches and would not even approach the holyman.  When he learned he was going to be confronted by the holyman he left the gathering.

If Talbot is so highly respectable, why is it that he would bring nude pictures of his wife into an institution where she occasionally attends?"

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2006, 04:51:29 pm »
More about the people Talbot associates with:

"Medicine Story is using Sunbear to legitimize himself?  His ex-wife Emmy stated at a Dance New England gathering several years ago that Sunbear sexually assaulted two young girls at one of his summer encampments.  Supposedly Medicine Story talked the girls' parents out of pressing charges.

To my knowledge none of the members of the Native Circles that he provides services for are even Native.  Actual Natives that are incarcerated in the institutions he services are ostracised from the circles because they disagree with his teachings.

How is it that he can conduct Native American sweats when there are over 500 Nations some with and some without sweat ceremonies and each ceremony is individualistic to that particular Nation?

If he was so concerned about bringing back the ceremonies of the Assonet then why are his ceremonies a mishmash of a variety of Nations?"
----

About Big Toe, supposedly a Narragansett elder that Talbot points to as an endorsement:

"I asked around about that Toe guy supposedly of AIM.  I have a few friends who are Narragansett and their opinion of him isn't particularly high being that he's into some pretty weird stuff as opposed to following, promoting and teaching his own culture."

Offline Aberth

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2006, 07:35:09 pm »
Hello

This was a PM i send to educatedindian. As he wish, i make my pm public

Quote
Hello

First, i've to excuse myself for my bad english. I came from Germany and are interested to become clear with myself about this situation about Francis Talbot.

I've heard from an half-blooded native, that they were strongly surpressed by the pure-blooded natives so i wounder, if the fact, that Francis Talbot is not pure-blooded native (of course, his grandmother was a pure-blooded native, about more native ancistors i was not informed) may be a reason, why he was attacked so strongly.
My knowledge about the different native cultures is nearly like nothing but i was still open for learning more about it.
But how can i trust information i can't see or feel by my own?
Everybody say that the internet wasa fine possibility to learn but how can i be sure, that the information i get from the internet were correct?
You say, that Francis Talbot is a fraud and a lot of other people say the same, but what, if you and they are the frauds?
I know, you think, that i was rude but i was just unsure about whom i can trust and whom not.
I've met Francis first time in 2000 on a weekend meeting for wich i paid about 30€ for material like firewood and food and things like that. after that i was on three of the big summer camps an two more weekend workshops.
And at no time he tried to sell us native wisdom or rituals, never tried to make one of us (so far i can say that) to a "shaman" of wich i know it was not from the american natives but from siberia in Russia, or everything else.
What he tries to show us, was a way to come together and live in a co supporting comunity, to live again with each other an came out of isolation. He tried to show us s.th. about the mechanism of supression between the genders and the problems resulting of that supression.
And what he say about love is not, to feel free to love but that it is important to be free in our mind so we can freely give love without fear or be influenced by the sexism showed in the modern civilisation.

I know. that all listens realy confused and thats exactly i feel at the moment.So i will end at these point and be curious about your answer.

Your sincerly

Aberth



The earth can exist without man but we can't exist without her. So, please, remember my words and do everything that all following generations can also live in this world.

And this was his answer

Quote
Hello Aberth,
First, I would prefer that any other email between us be either in public or at my usual email, educated_indio@yahoo.com. There is no reason we can't talk about this in public. It would be good for you to hear other Native opinions, and if you are afraid for other members of Talbot's group to know you have questions, that does not say anything good about his people.

Natives object to Talbot solely because he is a fraud and exploiter who harms many people. I'm mixeblood myself, and so are many of the members of NAFPS.

You asked "How can I trust information I can't see or feel on my own?" That is a terrible way to judge things. After all, to a heroin addict, heroin feels good, and doctors and medical textbooks are not things you can feel.

The way to trust information is simply to ask what the majority of peoples of that culture say, and we say Talbot is a fraud. Even his own followers know he is a white man pretending to be Native, they just don't care because he caters to their fantasies about Natives.

As for me, you could easily check what others have to say about us, or find out who we are.

You say he never tried to sell you Native wisdom, but the fact is you would not have listened to him if he did not pretend to be Indian. What he sold you (for cash) he passed off as being from Native cultures, when it has nothing to do with them.

And if you look again at the thread, yes, he does sell ceremonies.

Unless you object, I would like to repost what we've said here on the thread for all to see.
Al Carroll
The earth can exist without man but we can't exist without her. So, please, remember my words and do everything that all following generations can also live in this world.

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2007, 06:45:06 pm »
Someone emailed me this account of meeting him:

"I knew there was something wrong with him. I was involved years ago with a group he runs out of his place in New Hampshire. He charges money for everything that was my first hint. Then he offers sweats but they were co-ed. I was taught that sweats were never to be co-ed or offered to people other than full bloods. I also learned that women have moon lodges.

He didn't charge money for his sweats but said you had to donate a blanket and sage for the sweat. I was very uncomfortable, uneasy the whole time I was in the group. My intuition told me to get away and stay away from this man and his group. I will admit I did buy his book Back to Creation. Yes he did claim to be Wampanoag.

I can't believe that he is still operating. He sure has made his money believe me, from this. He has the most beautiful place up there an lots of big wigs give him money for his work. The organization that I work with here in my town is devoted to Indigenous people but mostly we help Native women who are abused or raped. They are always looking for other Native people or groups to be a source for outreach to help our clients. I am glad you gave me that link so I can make sure I warn the group before they hear about him and think of contacting him. Thanks again."

Offline earthw7

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2007, 03:10:58 pm »
I wonder about people who will believe a fraud over Native people whom he is teaching. I have heard while full-bloods don't like mix-bloods, the Native people have lost their traditions, they are jealous of me, those people are just making up lies, and my follows believe me.

It is wrong to teach people lies, some people are so needy that these people take advantage of them. It is wrong and it is fraud.
In Spirit

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #28 on: October 28, 2007, 03:35:10 pm »
Good point, it's good to them till it backfires. I seen a couple that didn't go well. One was a argument over a belief that the person was going to heal his pancreatic cancer. It didn't and it got nasty. Of course the person stated they never said that in the beginning, just they would help them "cope" with it.  Sometimes these people are not only needy they are desperate, and will grab at anything.

Offline debbieredbear

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Re: Francis Talbot AKA Medicine Story AKA Manitonquat
« Reply #29 on: October 28, 2007, 05:18:58 pm »
I have a friend who has had a fantasy about meeting a wise NDN teacher since she was in high school. She is over 40 now. And when I point out someone is a fraud and why, she will argue with me. She is so tied to her fantasy, that she does not want to know someone is a fraud. I think quite a few of the fraud followers are like her.  And there are so many books in the nuage bookstores that promote this kind of fantasy.