Author Topic: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust  (Read 37048 times)

Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2013, 03:44:32 am »
I personally know Char.  I have not read this book that is quoted here so frequently, mostly because Char was never happy with it and says it is full of distortions and errors.   Char is one of the most loving and generous people I know.  She has many students but I have never been one of them.  She is my friend.

That said, this is what I know of her.  If she does not have psychic abilities then she is one of the most intuitive people I have ever met.  Who knows, maybe that is what being psychic means.  She just plain knows things about people. I happen also to know Johnny Moses as mentioned here and am best friends with his younger sister.  I have sometimes been critical of the hold Johnny has on some of his followers and how they willingly sacrifice sometimes for his comfort.  I have never seen Char do anything like that in more than 2 decades of knowing her and she has had many opportunities.

I have been an observer at her school and I wouldn't say what she teaches amounts to ripping off traditions or mixing and matching.  From what I see she explores different traditions in order to find the commonality in them.  Her students are not trained in any specific tradition so much as given skills to find their own path.  Frankly, I see no harm in that.  Her classes have more to do with personal empowerment than anything else and her students almost universally report transformative change.

When people talk of fraud the implication is they are selling something that has no actual value or promising something with no results.  Since her students stay with her for years and her clients endure long waiting lists for sessions with her it seems to me the public does not agree that her work is valueless or ineffective.

Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2013, 03:53:04 am »
Incidentally Char isn't Cheyenne and I have never heard her claim to be.  She has family from the Cheyenne River but they are Lakota.  I suppose that is an easy thing to be confused about.  Also, I met Barbara Means Adams through Char and was introduced to this venerable lady as her second mother.  The woman frequently referred to Char as her daughter.  I would say any claim to have been a student of hers is valid.

Epiphany

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2013, 04:11:37 am »
Ravenspeaker, are you Ravenspeaker / Robert Frederiksen? You and Solana Booth run Natives Rising, based in Seattle, and do some events with Char? Could you please introduce yourself in the Member Introductions section? Thank you and welcome.

http://citylivingseattle.com/main.asp?SectionID=22&SubSectionID=167&ArticleID=89468


Offline educatedindian

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2013, 08:03:55 pm »
RS, I'm glad to see you here as well. I hope you can help us clear these matters up.

I know Ms Goodrich joined us this past week and hope she will speak also.

As best you know, what exactly is inaccurate about that bio? Is it the claim of sexual abuse? The alleged Cheyenne teacher? The account of being a psychic in childhood?

I hope either you or Goodrich can settle just what ancestry she claims, as well as what her teacher claimed. So far we've seen Apache, Iroquois, and now Lakota for her. Which band is her family from? And why would a Lakota learn from alleged Cheyenne, take a name she has the mistaken idea is Apache, and mangle it all together with pagan, Nuage, and Christian mysticism?

I should also mention what Goodrich does appears to be the old con artist technique called cold reading. Anyone can do it, look it up.

If she is genuine, may I suggest she go to a researcher such as James Randi, who offers a million dollars for genuine proof of psychic ability. (I'm not suggesting she's solely motivated by money, but anyone could think of great uses, including charities, for a million dollars.) Her alleged ability would be as famous a discovery as splitting the atom were it actually true.

Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2013, 09:12:11 pm »
Educated Indian, thank you for your questions and your welcome.  Piff, I posted an introduction and I want to thank you for the link to a news story about Solana and I and Natives Rising.  That was unexpected.  Thank you. 

When I clicked on reply I lost the post with the questions on it so I will do my best to recall them.  I understand the precision behind calling her Charlotte Goodrich but I believe she has a right to call herself what she likes and with me would ask everyone refer to her as Char Sundust.  I am no expert whatever on psychic phenomena and can't claim to speak on it beyond what my people call "Echoes".

I think Char receives Echoes, whatever they may be, in the way that they are defined by my ancestors.  Specifically, she understands things without having to be told.  Whether this is a form of a sub conscious reading of body language or ESP does not really matter to me.  I have observed it.  I have also observed she is not always right and she admits that.
 
 I propose this is why it would be pointless for her to submit to some kind of lab experiment. My impression of these sorts of "tests" is they require an extreme level of accuracy that isn't possible.  Further, I think it is not fair to call her a con artist because she doesn't use this skill to take advantage of anyone.  She honestly tries to help people which I think is all we can ask of her and I certainly can produce people who feel they have benefited from her counsel.

Frankly, Char does not really know where her ability comes from all the time and simply credits Creator and her spirit guardians.  I choose not to argue the source.  I care only about the evidence of my senses.   


Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2013, 09:21:32 pm »
Educated Indian,  I don't know what is inaccurate about the book.  Char complained that it was so I never bothered to read it.  I know that she isn't Cheyenne and I have never heard her claim to be.  Her mother is of Lakota descent and her father Apache.  I have never met her dad or step dad but I do know there was trauma there and what that trauma was.  Not sure if its appropriate to discuss details in a public forum here.

Her biological mother is a delightful woman and one can easily see where Char gets her lovey nature from.  I can tell you that Char is eligible for tribal enrollment and has drug her feet on this for years.  I have been pushing her to do so lately and feel this posting about her is probably going to be good ammunition for me to get her to finally do it.

Epiphany

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2013, 03:10:04 am »
Research on the surname Sundust:

US Federal census

1940 census 24 Sundust counted , all Maricopa Arizona
1920 13 counted , 12 on Gila River Indian Reservation, one in Prescott
1910 11 counted, 10 Gila River Indian Reservation, one in Osborn
1900 4 counted, Phoenix, Arizona Territory

U.S., Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940

Sundust name counted 378 times, 375 Pima, Pipaash, and/or Maricopa, 2 times Maricopa and Klamath. 1 person, a 10 year old girl, counted in 1934 as Maricopa-Apache on Gila River Indian Reservation, Pima Agency - Sacaton, Arizona. Her father Apache, his surname Norton. Her mother Maricopa, her surname Sundust.

(Federal census data from Ancestry.com.
U.S. Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940 from Ancestry.com, original data Indian Census Rolls, 1885-1940, National Archives, Records of the Bureau of Indian Affairs )



« Last Edit: November 11, 2013, 02:49:00 pm by Piff »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2013, 07:15:16 pm »
I understand the precision behind calling her Charlotte Goodrich but I believe she has a right to call herself what she likes and with me would ask everyone refer to her as Char Sundust.  I am no expert whatever on psychic phenomena and can't claim to speak on it beyond what my people call "Echoes".

I think Char receives Echoes, whatever they may be, in the way that they are defined by my ancestors.  Specifically, she understands things without having to be told.  Whether this is a form of a sub conscious reading of body language or ESP does not really matter to me.  I have observed it.  I have also observed she is not always right and she admits that.
 
 I propose this is why it would be pointless for her to submit to some kind of lab experiment. My impression of these sorts of "tests" is they require an extreme level of accuracy that isn't possible.  Further, I think it is not fair to call her a con artist because she doesn't use this skill to take advantage of anyone.  She honestly tries to help people which I think is all we can ask of her and I certainly can produce people who feel they have benefited from her counsel.

Frankly, Char does not really know where her ability comes from all the time and simply credits Creator and her spirit guardians.  I choose not to argue the source.  I care only about the evidence of my senses.   

What you describe is much simpler than being psychic. It's called guessing. Perhaps, as you say, she's very good at reading body language. If the story of childhood abuse is true, that may suggest why she wants to believe she's psychic. Abuse survivors often feel disassociated, like their body isn't theirs, or talk about feeling their spirit is outside of their body. And abusers often tell the victims they're worthless, so imagining herself with a special ability might help them cope.

All that I've seen so far points toward someone with distant ancestry very out of touch with her heritage, and so she grasps at straws. Her appearance shows she does not have much Native ancestry, and her own accounts say maybe an Apache grandmother that her mother won't talk about and a Lakota great grandmother. So she latches onto anything, a claimed Cheyenne teacher, an abusive stepfather claiming to be a healer, a name she imagined was Apache but as you can see is O'odham.

Her intentions may be good, but she is spreading a lot of confused ideas. And I don't believe simply wanting something is reason enough to support it. Goodrich's faux Apache name is one of those.

Epiphany

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2013, 08:52:14 pm »

What you describe is much simpler than being psychic. It's called guessing. Perhaps, as you say, she's very good at reading body language. If the story of childhood abuse is true, that may suggest why she wants to believe she's psychic. Abuse survivors often feel disassociated, like their body isn't theirs, or talk about feeling their spirit is outside of their body. And abusers often tell the victims they're worthless, so imagining herself with a special ability might help them cope.


This is exactly my own experience in the past as a young woman who had a rough childhood. In order to survive abuse I'd learned how to disassociate. Under the influence of the Seattle New Age scene as a young adult I thought something psychic and mystical was going on, when actually what was going on was PTSD symptoms. I even worked for a time as a "psychic reader".

People with PTSD from abuse can be hypervigilant. They can be good are reading body language, in that they are always scanning for possible danger. For survival we can cultivate an active fantasy life. Eventually we need to get proper help, definitely not from a New Age practitioner. We need to learn coping skills and how to focus ourselves safely in the here and now.

Ravenspeaker, the fact that students stay with her for years, and that clients endure long waiting lists - this is not at all necessarily a good sign. This could be a sign that people have developed an emotional dependency.

I, as a person who has experienced abuse, could never go to Char for treatment. Because she isn't licensed, she isn't supervised, she talks about her own abuse freely even in what should be a professional setting, and because her treatments are unsafe.

If as described in the book, she has locked up people who are psychotic, rather taking them to the hospital - this is very serious and unsafe.

A person may be charismatic, lovey, motherly, passionate, creative, they may believe that they are specially tuned in, they may honestly mean well - all while doing actual damage to their clients.

I may come across mocking or a little harsh earlier in this thread, this is because I'm from the Seattle New Age, I know the territory well. Whether a person is a con artist, a traumatized person dealing with delusions, or a mix of both, they need to stop taking clients and get themselves some help.




« Last Edit: November 12, 2013, 08:46:04 pm by Piff »

Offline earthw7

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2013, 08:44:21 pm »
So we have a woman who is making money from damaged people again.
that is fraud
Then she claimed to be Cheyenne, Lakota and Iroquios
and puts Hopi Progency on her site.  Which she is not.
If she can enroll which tribe? What is her really name that is
up for enrollment,
just because Barabara Mean call her daughter
does not mean that she is anyway related to my people.
We have no-one who is trained as a (shaman) let alone a girl
who is at the age menstration,  can tell you if she is so powerful why
lie about who she is?
Why make up stories OH WAIT! to make money right.


So Please tell what name she would enroll under.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2013, 01:39:48 pm by earthw7 »
In Spirit

Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #25 on: November 16, 2013, 05:22:14 am »
Some of the critiques here are referencing things I know nothing about.  I can not comment on what someone said about Char.  I can only comment on my experience with Char.  Why someone says she is Hopi, or Iroquois or Cheyenne or whatever else I have no idea, she never has claimed these.  The use of the word 'shaman' is a bit loaded because there are different traditions.  I can't say I have ever heard Char call herself a shaman though so again, not sure where that is coming from.

I am a bit discouraged about the general dismissiveness evidenced in the posts here. We come from cultures that generally accept that spirit is more than just an interesting word. I am not sure it is reasonable to dismiss someone or something with authority without personal investigation.  We no longer live in an age where it is safe to read a book( or even two) and say you know all about a subject.  You have to check something or someone out for yourself.  That is the world we live in.

It has been suggested that we should despise her because she makes a living helping people.  I have watched, with personal observation, literally millions of dollars spent on so called professionals in fancy white coats work with "damaged people" to no avail.  If Char is a fraud then a very substantial portion of people with doctorates are as well.  Not just because they work with damaged people, which has been the suggested standard here, but also because they get little or no result in spite of their fancy degrees.  At least Char's people report feeling happy and attended to after her work.  Maybe all they needed was someone to care about them.  If her clientele is happy paying her for this why should anyone not involved in the transaction object?

Epiphany

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #26 on: November 16, 2013, 05:15:59 pm »
  The use of the word 'shaman' is a bit loaded because there are different traditions.  I can't say I have ever heard Char call herself a shaman though so again, not sure where that is coming from.

Quote
About Char Sundust:

Char Sundust is a shamanic practitioner

http://www.charsundust.com/who-we-are.php

Hopefully Earthw7's questions will be answered. What name would Char enroll under, what tribe?




Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #27 on: November 16, 2013, 05:38:15 pm »
Why someone says she is Hopi, or Iroquois or Cheyenne or whatever else I have no idea, she never has claimed these.

I don't think people are saying she is a member of those Nations. They are saying she has made those false claims to them, then changed her story when people didn't buy it. How do you know everything she has ever claimed?

You are saying that people here haven't been at every conversation she's had. Neither have you. Um, unless you are Char.

Anything you'd like to tell us?

Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #28 on: November 18, 2013, 08:30:47 am »
actually I have encouraged Char to make her own case here and I believe she has already posted something or is about to.  I haven't checked so I will let her answer the most personal things about herself.  Its a fair point to say I haven't heard everything she has ever said but after knowing her twenty three years I think I can say she has always been consistent with me. 

What I am hearing is someone says Char said this or that and then changed her story.  Does "someone" know Char and observed this behavior personally?  Also, I think its fair to ask again by what standard are we calling her a fraud?  Is it because some of us believe there is no such thing as a psychic and therefore anyone claiming to be (or what amounts to the same thing) must be a fake?  Is it because of the word shamanic (which is related to but not identical in meaning to shaman?)  If so, are all people who make use of shamanic ideas and practices frauds?

I have heard it said that since no cure is ever 100 percent effective anything which produces better results than doing nothing can be considered effective treatment.  If a certain segment of the population through faith can find comfort and courage to face life's challenges who are not reached by the "experts" then who is anyone to say these real results are illegitimate because Char doesn't wear a lab coat?

I have been a counselor for ten years and I have observed that your doctors of this and your doctors of that do not have all or even most of the answers that people need.  faith works wonders that medicine often can't even touch and there is plenty of real world evidence to back this up without me having to cite some learned tome on the subject.

So again,  if you don't believe in her why does that automatically make her a fraud?


Offline Ravenspeaker

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Re: Charlotte Goodrich AKA Char Sundust
« Reply #29 on: November 18, 2013, 08:46:20 am »
I have to say one more thing about this... I have always regarded it as offensive when Westerners refer to my cultural traditions as superstitious.   My people believe we are not our bodies but where bodies like a coat.  as yoda would say... "luminous beings are we"

I have yet to hear anyone explain why I have consciousness  in strictly material terms.  To my way of thinking denying the possibility of spirit and the different phenomena associated with it is just as speculative as the various ways people try to define the supernatural.  The only thing that matters at the end of the day is not whether Char qualifies as a shaman or a psychic or a Kalahari Antelope.  The only thing that matters in the question of whether she is a fraud is does she get results.

I say she does.  I have seen happy clientele.  Even if she doesn't get perfection it doesn't matter because no one on this forum can point me to a doctor of any kind that has a 100 percent or even an 80 percent success rate, especially in the field mental health which is rife with phony science.

I am making a passionate defense for my friend and am sorry if in my passion I say anything to offend anyone.  Its not my intention and hope you will look past that.