Author Topic: James Arthur Ray - Angel Valley Resort DeathSweat in Sedona: 3 dead, 20 injured  (Read 199574 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2009, 03:12:26 pm »
From James Ray's website.

....James’ most recent book, Harmonic Wealth: The Secret of Attracting the Life You Want, reached number five on the New York Times Best-Sellers list in its first week in print.

Throughout his life, James Arthur Ray has studied and been exposed to a wide diversity of teachings and teachers – from his collegiate learning and the schools of the corporate world, to the ancient cultures of Peru, Egypt and the Amazon. Armed with this comprehensive and diverse background in behavioral sciences, coupled with his experience as a successful, entrepreneur, and an avid thirst for spiritual knowledge, James boasts the unique and powerful ability to blend the practical and mystical into a usable and easy-to-access formula for achieving true wealth across all aspects of life.

Seeking to share his unique way of living with individuals around the world, James presents his insights at public appearances and seminars over 200 days each year. His Journey of Power® events fuse together the wealth-building principles, success strategies, and the teachings of all great spiritual traditions and practices that he has experienced and assimilated over the last 25 years.

James Arthur Ray has made multiple appearances on The Oprah Winfrey Show and Larry King Live, and is a recurring guest on NBC's top-rated national morning show, Today. He has been featured in numerous publications, both regionally and nationally, including a feature article in a March 2009 issue of The New York Times on the growing success of his Harmonic Wealth Weekends and an April 2008 profile in Fortune Magazine.


That he's been promoted by one mainstream media outlet after another is despicable. Oprah Winfrey in particular has a horrible record of promoting other obvious frauds like "Don" Miguel Ruiz. These outlets helped make him wealthy and famous, and they helped draw these poor people to these phony dangerous knockoffs of sweatlodges.

Winfrey esp needs to come clean and accept her responsibility for her part in this. Hopefully she will do a program apologizing for promoting Ray, as she earlier apologized for promoting an author who lied about his past. 

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #16 on: October 10, 2009, 03:31:21 pm »
Just happened:

A freelancer working for the NY Times just contacted me about this story. I'll talk to him, but I also urge anyone else wanting to give their POV to email or IM me ASAP if you want to speak with him. I will pass along his email and phone number to you, or yours to him.

I esp urge people living in AZ to talk with him. No doubt he'll want reactions from local NDNs.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #17 on: October 10, 2009, 05:01:59 pm »

Offline Sizzle Flambé

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #18 on: October 11, 2009, 09:18:32 am »
USA Today reprinted the AP article, with photo.

Great Native-American yin-yang logo on the teepee!

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2009, 12:51:29 pm »
The reporter working for the NY Times I spoke to on Saturday, his article came out. He quoted both me and the site, as well as Joseph Bruchac and a Klamath ceremonial leader. It's interesting to see that even the mayor of Sedona is appalled by these exploiters.


Sweat Lodge Deaths Bring Soul-Searching to Area Deep in Seekers
 Tom Tingle/The Arizona Republic, via Associated Press
Investigators are looking into two deaths that occurred in a spiritual retreat near Sedona, Ariz. The cause of death is unknown.

Published: October 11, 2009
SEDONA, Ariz. — Tucked into stunning red rock formations and canyons punctuated with splashes of green junipers, this town of about 11,500 has long been a high-end golf and tennis resort, the choice location for second homes of the well-to-do and a favorite destination for hikers, rock climbers, cyclists and sightseers.

It has also become world-renowned as a New Age metaphysical center, attracting seekers and followers of an assortment of spiritual pathways, many of whom believe healing energy is released from “vortexes” that are said to be scattered among the rock formations.

Scores of self-proclaimed mystics, healers, channelers of past life experiences (and aliens), sacred touch massage therapists, wind whisperers and vision quest guides offer their services, often for a hefty price. Many of these spiritual pathways are based somewhat loosely around Native American traditions, including the ceremonial sweat lodge.

But the deaths of two people in a sweat lodge last week at Angel Valley, a New Age spiritual retreat about six miles south of West Sedona, is causing more soul-searching among New Age practitioners and concern among town leaders.

“We are severely impacted by the fact that this happened,” said Sedona’s mayor, Rob Adams. “We need to get to the bottom of what happened.”

Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee, died on Thursday after collapsing inside the Angel Valley sweat lodge. Three other people were airlifted in critical condition to Flagstaff Medical Center.

“The people in the field will take a close look at their operations, absolutely,” said Marcus, an intuitive counselor — a kind of spiritual guide — who goes by only his first name. “This is ridiculous, it shouldn’t have happened.”

At least seven other people have died in ceremonial sweat lodges since 1993 in the United States, England and Australia, according to news accounts compiled by Alton Carroll, an adjunct professor of history at San Antonio College who also moderates the Web site

James Arthur Ray, a self-help expert from Carlsbad, Calif., led what was billed as five-day “spiritual warrior” experience at Angel Valley, which concluded with a tightly packed sweat lodge ceremony. Participants paid about $9,000 each for the weeklong retreat, which included seminars, a 36-hour fast and solo experiences in the forest.

The authorities say that at any one time 55 to 65 people were packed for a two-hour period into a 415-square foot structure that was 53 inches high at the center and 30 inches high on the perimeter. Mr. Ray’s employees built the wood-frame lodge, which was wrapped in blankets and plastic tarps. Hot rocks were brought into the lodge and doused with water. Mr. Ray, who conducted the ceremony, left the area on Thursday after declining to give a statement to the police.

Sheriff Steve Waugh of Yavapai County said a death investigation would continue for several weeks. Mr. Ray, the Angel Valley owners, Michael and Amayra Hamilton, and all the participants are part of the investigation, the sheriff said. The results from autopsies that were conducted Friday have not been released and results from toxicology tests are not expected for several weeks.

Dr. Carroll, who is partly of Mescalero Apache descent, said the Angel Valley sweat lodge was the “best example I have seen, sadly, in a long time of why it is extremely dangerous to conduct sweat lodge ceremonies without proper training.”

Katherine Lash, a co-owner of Spiritquest Retreat in Sedona and a veteran of more than 100 sweat lodge ceremonies, said she had never heard of a sweat being conducted with as many people as were involved in the Angel Valley event. “In my experience it has been very rare to have more than 20 people,” she said.

Limiting the number of people inside a sweat lodge is critical because the person leading the event is supposed to carefully monitor the mental and physical condition of each participant, experts said.

“It’s important to know who is responsible for your spiritual and physical safety in that lodge,” said Vernon Foster, a member of the Klamath-Modoc tribe who regularly leads ceremonial sweat lodge events in central Arizona.

Mr. Foster said native people would use only natural materials in the construction of a sweat lodge. “We would never use plastic to cover our lodges,” he said. “The lodge has to breathe, that steam has to go someplace.”

Sheriff’s office investigators are conducting tests to determine whether any toxins were released during the ceremony. The authorities said sandalwood “was thrown on the rocks to give the effect of incense.” A 2007 study by the National University of Singapore on the effects of smoke emitted by sandalwood incense published in the journal Science and Technology of Advanced Materials found that “continuous and prolonged exposure to incense smoke is of concern.”

Ms. Brown, said friends in Cabo San Lucas, Mex., where she lived and worked as a interior house painter, was in excellent physical condition and regularly practiced yoga and enjoyed surfing. “She was very beautiful and a very, very exceptional and unique person,” said Todd Clouser, a musician from Boston who met Ms. Brown three years ago.

Mr. Clouser said he was not surprised that Ms. Brown would attend a sweat lodge. “It was totally up her alley,” he said.

Mayor Adams said that Sedona believed that people should be free to follow their spiritual path and that metaphysical services would continue to be an important part of the area’s economy. But, he said he shared concerns of some Native Americans who complain that non-natives are, at times, exploiting their sacred ceremonial practices for profit.

“If it is simply to make money, then that’s another issue,” he said.

Offline NCRunningWolf

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2009, 07:31:18 pm »
I live just a bit down the highway from Sedona.  Well, for us it isn't far. 
I understand the people up there are very upset, as many make their living off "Native American style" "vision quests", "sweat lodges", ceremony and expensive geegaws that are guaranteed to save your soul, lift your spirit to a higher plane, etc.
All this salvation for a price, of course.
It is a strange place indeed.  Beautiful, but the people up there tout "vortexes", "angel" places.   This may hurt businesses up there as they prey on the spiritually dissatisfied, those who are seeking a  deeper meaning in life, and a place to anchor themselves.
This James Ray is the guy who  wrote "The Secret". 
James Ray did not even visit the  people in the  hospital or stay to at least try to comfort the survivors.  He turned his back on them and walked away with his half million he made from this  debacle. I think many of the people who go to these things are fragile minded anyway.  There will be life time trauma for many of the people who participated in this thing.
The thing looks like a dump in the pictures in the news here.  If you noticed the shadows, I didn't at first, it was pointed out to me, even the alignment was wrong.
I am glad this is getting the national attention it deserves.
I am NOT glad anyone died, but if enough people read and hopefully understand this isn't a good thing, there may be fewer deaths.  This is far from the first instance of new age sweat lodge death. 
I am sure there are some that were not reported as such, either.
I hope that criminal charges will come out of this, but I doubt there will be.

Heated plastic gives off toxic gases.
There  was no way in hell that  that man could have given proper attention to the people for whom he was responsible.

Evolution of toxic gases from heated plastics
B. Bott, J. G. Firth, T. A. Jones
Safety in Mines Research Establishment, Ministry of Power, Sheffield S3 7HQ

A brief investigation has been carried out into the nature and quantity of the toxic gases evolved during the thermal decomposition of polyurethane, urea-formaldehyde, nylon and acrylonitrile in air and in nitrogen. The weight fractions of the polymers evolved as hydrogen cyanide are given, together with the lowest temperatures at which hydrogen cyanide, carbon monoxide, ammonia and nitrogen oxides are evolved. Apparent activation energies for the evolution of hydrogen cyanide and carbon monoxide have been determined. A brief discussion of the experimental data is given.

Offline earthw7

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2009, 08:49:41 pm »
he should go to jail
In Spirit

Offline LittleOldMan

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #22 on: October 12, 2009, 10:55:09 pm »
For a long long time!  "LOM"
Blind unfocused anger is unproductive and can get you hurt.  Controlled and focused anger directed tactically wins wars. Remember the sheath is not the sword.

Offline E.P. Grondine

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2009, 01:24:54 am »
Any one checked out where this guy advertised to line up his victims?

I have my guess...

Offline BlackWolf

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2009, 03:34:21 am »

I thought this article was interesting because the writer Johnny Flynn who is American Indian and has been attending and running sweats for 40 years says this
it’s just that no one religion has the corner on the borrowing and incongruity of sacred stories

and he goes on to mention that most Indian people are Christians.  He seems to disagree that "religions and Traditions" can be "stolen"  Just curious as to what everyone thinks about what he says?

Last week in Sedona Arizona, during a “spiritual warrior” retreat led by New Age, self-help expert James Arthur Ray, two people died in a “sweat lodge ceremony” and more than twenty were sickened.

Within hours after the news broke, the Web was alive with comments from Indians and non-Indians about the tragedy.

Sifting through the reactions I found a few themes that stood out.

Stealing the Religion?

First of all, there’s the question of the relationship of Indian religion to American culture. Non-Indians have been making a lucrative business out of the appropriation of Native ceremonies for years. Ray’s weeklong event in Sedona cost each participant more than $9,000. A search of any number of Web sites advertising these “Indian ceremonies” will turn up sweat lodges that average over $100 per event, and four-day “vision quests” going for around five hundred dollars, “all meals included” and “Visa and MasterCard accepted.”

Indians all across the country are upset, saying white people stole the land, killed the buffalo, and now want to steal the religion. The trouble is that most indigenous people in the Americas identify as Christian. Even the Native American Church, that features peyote as a “sacrament,” is incorporated as a church and uses the Bible as part of the altar display.

The origin of the peyote church can be traced to the late 19th century, the same time as the Ghost Dance, and shares a foundation from Christian eschatology. One of the central myths of the Native American Church is how a twenty-foot-tall Jesus came to Earth and saw the treatment of Indian people and began to cry. Wherever the tears hit the ground peyote grew, and so the buttons of the hallucinogenic plant are called the “tears of Jesus,” and visions generated by eating these tears allow participants to “see what Jesus saw.”

Understand, this is not a criticism of my own people and our myriad of religious beliefs; it’s just that no one religion has the corner on the borrowing and incongruity of sacred stories. New Agers who use the sweat lodge are not so much “stealing Indian religion” as they are weaving a new religion out of strands of what they believe to be old religions.

Various forms of the sweat ceremony were used by Indians from Canada into southern Mexico. In the south they’re called temescals and resemble a wet sauna or steam room; tribes in the American Southwest have dry sweats that feature heated rocks but no water, or a fire built inside the sweat with a smoke hole in the center of the lodge. The version that Ray and his followers used in Sedona is considered Plains style, where rocks are heated to glowing in a fire outside and brought into the lodge a dozen or so at a time. Water is poured on the hot rocks and the amount of steam and heat is controlled by the person conducting the ritual.

How this ritual made its way into the New Age religious movement can be traced to events in the early 1970s when the American Indian Movement made headlines across the country with occupations in South Dakota, Arizona, and Wisconsin. Among the participants were many American Indian spiritual leaders who were knowledgeable in the use of the sweat as a healing ritual—and they shared the ceremony with Indians and non-Indian supporters from around the country. Like the dried head of a dandelion, the sweat lodge drifted here and there and landed far from where it started.

Ceremony, Ritual, But Not Yet a Religion

Both the sweat lodge and the Native American Church peyote ceremony started as healing rituals for one or a few participants, people suffering from some kind of spiritual or physical ailment. Both grew into pan-tribal ceremonies because of the longstanding oppression of tribal religions by the United States government. Within a few decades of its origins, the peyote church grew into what is essentially an Indian-style Christian denomination. In order for the sweat lodge to grow into a denomination of Pan-Indian religious practice, there are some serious issues that have to be resolved within the sweat lodge movement.

In the interest of disclosure, I should say that I have been attending and running sweat lodges for almost forty years. I have been in lodges built for 3-4 people and those built to hold 20-30 people, sweated with elders in their 80s and infants only a few months old. People have had to leave because it was too hot, or they had other concerns, and more times than I can count have had to hug the ground due to the intensity of the heat. There are sweat lodge leaders with whom I would never sweat again, and those whose ceremonies were incredible learning experiences. The madodoigan is an integral part of my family, my tribe, and I hope to hand it down to the generations coming behind. But it is a ceremony, not a religion—not yet.
When I moved to California in 1974 after the Wounded Knee occupation the year before, the sweat lodge was already starting to spread from those origins. But I could not find a place to sweat for the first few months. Eventually some Paiute friends built one in their yard in a Southern California urban area, and within a few months, dozens of Indians and non-Indians started to attend.

By 1980, there were sweat lodges all over California and a yearly Lakota Sun Dance was being held at DQ University, a now-closed American Indian college near Davis, California. For the past seven years, I have lived in the Indianapolis urban area, and although there is only one federally recognized tribe in Indiana based out of southern Michigan, there are more than a dozen sweat lodges in or within fifteen miles of the city. Only two are run by Indian people.

So the first question to ask is, who is the priesthood going to be for the sweat lodge movement? And how are they going to be chosen and trained?

Honoring the Feminine? Or Endurance Contest?

At the heart of the reaction of Indians to the tragedy in Sedona last week is that James Arthur Ray is not an Indian. Running a sweat lodge ceremony is not simply constructing a lodge, heating rocks, and pouring water. In my language, the rocks are mishomsinanek ewi nokmisek, “grandmas and grandpas,” and so they must be chosen carefully. The wrong stones can explode in the fire, or worse, in the lodge. They can give off toxic fumes or not heat properly. As one sweat leader many years ago taught me, “the stones choose you, not the other way around.”

Even the act of bringing the stones into the lodge is dangerous; super-heated rocks carried from an even hotter fire can roll off the shovel or pitchfork and land in someone’s lap—and that possibility is an active part of the discussion of the participants in the sweat lodge as the rocks are coming in the door.

The sweat lodge is considered the womb of the Mother Earth, a living being, so it must breathe in order for it to participate in the ceremony. News accounts out of Sedona indicate that Ray’s sweat lodge was covered in plastic sheeting. As I have tracked the news stories and anecdotes of sweat lodge deaths and near-disasters, every one of them was covered with plastic sheeting or plastic tarps.

Missed by many who use the lodge is its fundamental purpose of celebrating creation and the creator as emerging from the principle of the feminine.

In my tribe, women control the sweat lodge. While men may tend the fire, brings the rocks, or be the one who pours the water, the lodge is “owned” by the women. They decide when; usually on the full or new moons. They decide who attends, and where the lodge is to be built. Participants become brothers and sisters in the womb and emergence allows a new start purified of past events or illnesses, spiritual or physical.

The sweat lodge is used in Native American substance abuse treatment programs and has been an integral part of ceremonies of spiritual cleansing of returning veterans dating back to the time of wars with the United States. Many tribes believe that participation in wars and battles cause the dead the cling to the soul of the combatants and must be released to the next world through a process of cleansing that includes the sweat lodge and other related purification rituals.

Participants in the Sedona event were told that this was part of becoming a “spiritual warrior,” and it is clear from the news accounts and Ray’s own advertisements that this was not about celebrating the feminine or purification of the spirit—it was an endurance contest. People were encouraged to compete with one another for no other purpose than to return to the workaday world ready to do battle.

And finally, no one ever pays for a sweat lodge. Ever. Participants may bring food to share, or wood, or work for the building and maintenance of the sweat lodge, or even share gas money with those who struggle to make it to the ceremony—but no money. Anyone who charges any money for any sweat lodge is not doing it for family, tribe, or as a celebration of the feminine.

There was a never a child born, or a spirit reborn, who came into this world from the last with a dime in their pocket. It is common sense.

Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2009, 06:11:06 am »
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 03:25:14 am by critter »
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Offline Diana

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2009, 04:47:18 pm »
Here's another article about James Ray, my bold.

Sweat Lodge Retreat Leader 'Being Tested' by Deaths
Wednesday, October 14, 2009 

LOS ANGELES  —  The man in charge of a spiritual retreat last week in Arizona that left two people dead after they were overcome in a sweat lodge said Tuesday night he is facing a difficult time and is "being tested" by the tragedy.

The comments from self-help expert and author James Arthur Ray came during a seminar he held at a hotel in Marina del Rey, near Los Angeles. Ray broke down in tears as he addressed the deaths."This is the most difficult time I've ever faced," Ray told the crowd of about 200. "I don't know how to deal with it really."

An audience member asked Ray to describe what happened at the retreat, but he declined, saying only that he has hired his own investigative team and is cooperating with authorities.

"We're looking for answers," he said. "I'm as frustrated and confused as other people are."

Ray added that he wrestled with whether to go through with Tuesday's seminar, which he said was scheduled weeks before the sweat lodge deaths.

"My advisers told me, 'Don't do that. You don't know who'll show up. They're going to eat you alive,"' he told the audience. But he said it was important for him to keep his commitments.

"I'm grieving right now," Ray said. "I'm grieving for the families."

Ray led a group of more than 50 people last week through a five-day program at a resort near Sedona, Ariz., intended to push people beyond their limits. The course included a Thursday sweat lodge ceremony, which ended tragically in the deaths of Kirby Brown, 38, of Westtown, N.Y., and James Shore, 40, of Milwaukee.

Nineteen other people were hurt, and one remains in critical condition.

Ray's comments followed a demand earlier Tuesday from a spokesman for Brown's family for more accountability from Ray.

Tom McFeeley, Brown's cousin and family spokesman, called on Ray to assure that the retreat's participants "were not mistreated and not put in a reckless situation.

"He was someone people believed in, people paid good money to get his advice," McFeeley said. "It's a person we all wanted to believe had our best interest in mind. Quite simply, that didn't happen."

McFeeley also said he is concerned that Ray exhibited a "godlike complex" during the event that might have kept people from opting out of activities Ray acknowledged could cause "physical, emotional, financial or other injuries."

Fire department reports released Tuesday show the incident wasn't the first involving a sweat lodge ceremony at the resort. Verde Valley Fire Chief Jerry Doerksen said his department responded to a 911 call in October 2005 about a person who was unconscious after being in a sweat lodge.

Angel Valley resort owner Amayra Hamilton confirmed that Ray was leading the sweat ceremony during the 2005 event. Ray's spokesman declined to comment.

Meanwhile, the Yavapai County Sheriff's Office continued to investigate last week's ceremony to determine if criminal negligence played a role in the deaths or illnesses. Sheriff's spokesman Dwight D'Evelyn said Tuesday that authorities have not yet spoken with Ray.

Ray's spokesman, Howard Bragman, declined Tuesday to address the Brown family's concerns.

Authorities say 55 to 65 people attending the program were crowded into the 415-square-foot, crudely built sweat lodge during a two-hour period Thursday night. Participants paid between $9,000 and $10,000 for the retreat. They were highly encouraged, but not forced, to remain inside for the entire two hours, authorities said.

The participants had fasted for 36 hours as part of a personal and spiritual quest in the wilderness, then ate a breakfast buffet before entering the sweat lodge around 3 p.m. A 911 call two hours later said two people, who authorities said were Shore and Brown, had no pulse and weren't breathing.

Autopsies on Brown and Shore were conducted, but the results are being withheld pending additional tests. Carbon monoxide poisoning was ruled out as a cause of the deaths and illnesses.

A statement released by the family of Liz Neuman, who remains in critical condition at the Flagstaff Medical Center, said she is in a coma and doctors are working to stabilize damage to multiple organs.

Two others remained hospitalized. Fire officials say the victims exhibited symptoms ranging from dehydration to kidney failure after sitting in the sweat lodge.

Officials say the sweat lodge, built specifically for the five-day retreat, lacked the necessary building permit.

Resort owners Amayra Hamilton and her husband, Michael, asked Tuesday for prayers in hopes that something positive would come out of what they said was a tragic and unexpected event.

Offline NCRunningWolf

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2009, 06:02:19 pm »

Yeah, HE'S being "tested".
Yeah, HE'S "confused.
He's confused how he  is going to pull the same stunt for big bucks,
and get as many, if  not more ignorant, sad, people roped in.
A "difficult time' for him, eh?
I bet it's a helluva  lot more "difficult" on the people he  walked
out on.
Cowardly greedy fool.
I hope they get him for murder, but they won't.
Maybe manslaughter at the worse.
And, yes, maybe something good will come out of  this.
Maybe people will see what a  greedy phony James Ray is.
Maybe people won't be as quick to jump into something they don't know anything about.
I would like the media to point out these weren't the first deaths caused by non- Native sweat boxes.
I would like non- Natives to know how dangerous this is when practiced by people who know nothing about it.

Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2009, 07:26:41 pm »
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 03:25:33 am by critter »
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Offline NDN_Outlaw

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Re: Angel Valley Resort Sweat Lodge in Sedona: 2 dead, 19 injured
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2009, 07:58:47 pm »
Being Canadian I'm not so familiar with American law.No doubt he will be confronted with civil law suits. Also what provision would there be for charging him with, what we in the north, would term criminal negligence causing death?