Author Topic: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows  (Read 92653 times)

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #30 on: September 09, 2008, 02:05:40 am »
This is not a ‘diatribe’.

Uh, actually, it kinda is.

Quote
I know a lynching when I see one.

Not only a troll, but a racist. Discussing someone's public statements in a forum on the Internet is not equivalent to torturing someone to death in a racist hate crime, and leaving their disfigured body in a tree for their family to find. Equating the two is ignorant, racist, and massively insensitive to the families of people who've been murdered that way.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2008, 02:21:14 am by Kathryn NicDh? na »

Offline SouthwestSkeptic

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #31 on: September 09, 2008, 06:26:44 am »
I contacted Chief Spicer and he gave me permission to post his words on this site and several other sites. 
Your logic is flawed. Whether or not Chief Spicer resigns over tribal politics, he is still a LEGITIMATE member of the Seneca Wolf clan and capable of giving an informed opinion about Miss Swartz outrageous claims of being an "Iroquois Medicine woman" and the permission that the elders gave her to sell "Wolf clan memberships."

Tribal politics happens. 

I found Chief Spicer to be a very pleasant and reasonable man and very knowledgeable about the Wolf clan.  He emailed me back almost immediately after I sent a request and he was the first to grant permssioin to post his opinion of the great "Medicine woman."

Every other tribal member I was able to contact also denounced Miss Swartz. 

When she was posting to the American Indian Tribe Forum,
they laughed her out of the forum.

http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0

She was also laughed out of Native American Tube.

The words you choose are very, very revealing. When Miss Swartz was caught impersonating a Native American on these boards, she used the exact same phrase that Chief Spicer was "removed in disgrace."  to detract attention from her many errors in misrepresenting herself as a "Medicine Woman".  Actually, he resigned. Considering the magnitude of Miss Swartz' dishonesty here, it's pretty hypocritical for her to enlist her shills to point to someone else’s problems.

I'm having the webmasters send Al the IP address of the sock puppets that “Amylee the great medicine woman??? created, so we'll know pretty soon who you really are.

In answer to the question "What tribes ‘deny’ her?" Here's a partial list:
Akwesasne/St. Regis (Canada -Quebec, Ontario)
Mohawk Council of Akwesasne
Mohawk Council of Akwesasne – (United States – New York State)
Ganienkeh Territory (New York State)
Mohawk Nation Office
Kanatsiohareke (New York State)
Kanesatake (Quebec) (OKA)
Mohawks of Kahnnawake - Iroquois Caucus Member
Mohawk Nation Council of Chiefs
Mohawks of the Bay of Quinte - Iroquois Caucus Member
Ohsweken/Six nations/Grand River (Ontario) home to Mohawk, Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, and Tuscarora
Sahanatien Community
Saint Regis Mohawk (Upstate New York)
Six Nations
Elected Band Council
Ohsweken Brantford, Ontario
Six Nations
Elected Band Council
Brantford, ON
Canada
Six Nations Grand River Reserve
Tyendinaga (Ontario)
Mohawks of The Bay of Quinte
Wahta Mohawks Iroquois Caucus Member
Wahta Mohawk Territory
Mohawk Council of Kanesatake - Iroquois Caucus Member
Seneca Nation of Indians
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe – Miami Office
Seneca-Cayuga Tribe Grove Office
Tonawanda Band of Seneca's
Tonawanda Seneca Nation, Genesee County, NY
Seneca Nation of Indians
Allegeny Reservation
Cattaraugus Reservation
Michaels Band (Iroquois)
Alberta, Canada

Since you bear the burden of proof to show that Miss Swartz is indeed an "Iroquois Medicine woman", I challenge you to give the contact information for even ONE legitimate Native representative who can vouch for the veracity of Miss Swartz's claims of being the "last in her Iroquois lineage" and of being an "Iroquois Medicine woman".

I've never heard of a "Medicine woman" that the tribe has no knowledge of. It's absurd.
 

A cursory google search will show that "Amylee" was born in Ohio in the 1950s to Evelyn Mae (Johnson) Swartz and David L. Swartz.  Neither side of her family possesses even ONE DROP of native blood.  Since the early 1980's she has been claiming to be the last in her "lineage" on her mother's side, but that side of the family can be traced to England and Ireland through public records and documents easily obtainable through a FOIA request.   She also claims to be the only daughter of an only daughter, yet her sisters, neices and aunts have a different opinion.

Herbal cures are not harmless and many of the herbs she sells can harm or even kill people.  Her "Iroquois Bird Flu remedy" and her "Native American Colon Cleanse" are pure quackery.  (and by the way, removing the websites won't cover up these scams, several Mohawk groups have the screen shots I emailed to them.)

It appears that Miss Swartz has been misrepresenting herself as a medicine woman and gullible non-NDN people have been taken for a lot of money in her "Sisterhood of the Shields scams".  Anyone with a higher than room temperature I.Q. should be able to see how fraudulent her claims are. I can think of no other group of people who are constantly told by the dominant culture that lies about them are harmless than the NDN people. I also find it racist to imply that it's o.k. to cheat and swindle people because of their race.  Indigenous values teach us that lying, cheating and defrauding people is wrong.

A brief google search will show anyone without bias that Miss Swartz re-makes herself when she gets caught in a lie, but she has never stopped her fraudulent misrepresentation of herself as a spiritual leader of the Haudensaunee/Seneca.

I also have emails that she sent to a RRC member that show how dishonest she is. I'll post them when I get permission.

Thanks for keeping this thead at the top of the list, I hope it will warn more people about this fraud. ;)

Rose
I'm not a bird, I'm not a plane, I'm super NDN skeptic -
Debunking non-NDN bunk, one nut at a time!

JB Wingo

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #32 on: September 18, 2008, 02:51:29 pm »
I am the Independent Indian Media Booking Agent who arranged for AmyLee to be interviewed on First Voices Indigenous Radio, April 3, 2008. During the months of this year’s Longest Walk 2, I thought her discussion about that first Longest Walk in 1978 would be appreciated by various media venues. I knew that AmyLee had been a regional organizer who worked closely with Vernon Bellecourt in 1978. Afterwards and upon learning there was one email challenging her First Voices appearance, she graciously offered her government issued documentation, including arranging for such to be sent  directly from their official source.

 Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview. It follows and precedes a lengthy list of other falsified posts about her. There are over 52 false and misleading statements on page one of this thread mostly sired by the 100% fictitious Red Road Collective site first posted more than 15 years ago!
(It appears nearly every lie about AmyLee can be traced back to the RRC.) That number of errors triples on page two, where Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking. The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question. I should add here that I have known AmyLee for 20 years, the same approximate age of Ms. Garcia, whose only information about AmyLee appears to come from the internet and possibly an RRC supporter who may or may not have met AmyLee over 15 years ago.

About AmyLee:
To my extensive knowledge, she has never claimed to be a member of the Wolf Clan.  She has never sold ‘Wolf Clan Memberships.’ She has never claimed to be a ‘spiritual leader.’ She has never claimed to be the ‘traditional medicine woman’ to or for any group of people. She has never claimed to be a ‘life coach.’ She has never claimed to have a ‘cure’ for anything. She has never claimed to be a ‘shaman.’ The product list for Her Native Roots never featured any items called ‘American Indian Colon Cleanse’ nor ‘Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy.’ These are facts. And the list goes on and on. 

Just as irresponsible as those who defame her here are those who over-spoke her merits on their own sites, including those links which prematurely dubbed AmyLee a ‘Medicine Woman,’ or claimed her as their Teacher (often after one 50 minute public lecture) or called her an ‘Elder’ years before AmyLee will ever agree to wear the honor. AmyLee is not accountable for what other people say about her – good or bad. The burden of proof is not on AmyLee.

I could continue a check list - refuting each and every point noted by Ms. Garcia who undoubtedly believes her own skewed perceptions. However, if history repeats itself here, I would only be ridiculed on this site as a troll, shill, or presumed to be AmyLee herself or someone you dismiss as having been fooled by her. Instead, I offer a novel solution or at least a refreshing perspective. The list of libel and character defamation against AmyLee is growing to the point of endangering the actual good work this forum does. I have forwarded this thread to Domingo Rivera, cyber defamation attorney. Relax - not to sue anybody – but to review, then offer his professional opinion about its content and conduct and to offer a reasonable resolution if he sees one. I shall also forward him the “evidence??? I have, and inform TALON Inc which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, and snail-mail AmyLee too so that they know what’s going on and have the opportunity to supply documents or responses. You are also free to do the same. While this looks like mediation it is not – no one is bound to anything. No “outcome??? is even being suggested. This is just an option I am in a position to offer in the name of facts, truth and justice – which is what we all say we want. Take it or leave it.


You might be well advised to learn what you can about the new cyber-defamation laws.
His website is: http://www.cyberinternetlawyer.com/Online_Defamation.html

My email address is: IndiMedia@live.com  Subject line: AmyLee.  Please forward all information to me and I will take responsibility for seeing he receives it.
 
I suspect it will take him awhile to report back to this site with his findings and assessment. If you are going to send me anything to forward to him, please do so in the next two weeks.
Until then, tempted posters may wish to think twice, just in case this does grow into something with legal implications. Further libel could endanger this site, its hosts and the posters. Corporations do not take kindly to having their family members – be it their products or their volunteers, senselessly slandered and threatened.

I know just enough about the law to know when I need to call an expert. Race is a core issue in this thread. The legal definition of ‘lynching’ also includes extrajudical punishment meted out by a mob with a 'mob' being defined as "two or more persons, without color or authority of law, coming together for the purpose (predetermined at the onset or not) of harming another and from which death does not result." You clearly want to harm her – her reputation, community standing, and any products with which she is connected. I don’t think anyone here really wants mob rule. A time out, a voice of unbiased reason from a cyber-attorney, seems prudent at this point – for all concerned.

While I have been open with you that I have knowledgeable reason to believe AmyLee is innocent of all allegations here, I am also open to being proven wrong. If there is enough substantial information forwarded to me it might also make a good story for First Voices Radio or another media venue I might arrange.  JB

Offline Superdog

  • Posts: 443
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2008, 06:36:52 pm »
I am the Independent Indian Media Booking Agent who arranged for AmyLee to be interviewed on First Voices Indigenous Radio, April 3, 2008. During the months of this year’s Longest Walk 2, I thought her discussion about that first Longest Walk in 1978 would be appreciated by various media venues. I knew that AmyLee had been a regional organizer who worked closely with Vernon Bellecourt in 1978. Afterwards and upon learning there was one email challenging her First Voices appearance, she graciously offered her government issued documentation, including arranging for such to be sent  directly from their official source.

 Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation of AmyLee’s interview. It follows and precedes a lengthy list of other falsified posts about her. There are over 52 false and misleading statements on page one of this thread mostly sired by the 100% fictitious Red Road Collective site first posted more than 15 years ago!
(It appears nearly every lie about AmyLee can be traced back to the RRC.) That number of errors triples on page two, where Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking. The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question. I should add here that I have known AmyLee for 20 years, the same approximate age of Ms. Garcia, whose only information about AmyLee appears to come from the internet and possibly an RRC supporter who may or may not have met AmyLee over 15 years ago.

About AmyLee:
To my extensive knowledge, she has never claimed to be a member of the Wolf Clan.  She has never sold ‘Wolf Clan Memberships.’ She has never claimed to be a ‘spiritual leader.’ She has never claimed to be the ‘traditional medicine woman’ to or for any group of people. She has never claimed to be a ‘life coach.’ She has never claimed to have a ‘cure’ for anything. She has never claimed to be a ‘shaman.’ The product list for Her Native Roots never featured any items called ‘American Indian Colon Cleanse’ nor ‘Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy.’ These are facts. And the list goes on and on. 

Just as irresponsible as those who defame her here are those who over-spoke her merits on their own sites, including those links which prematurely dubbed AmyLee a ‘Medicine Woman,’ or claimed her as their Teacher (often after one 50 minute public lecture) or called her an ‘Elder’ years before AmyLee will ever agree to wear the honor. AmyLee is not accountable for what other people say about her – good or bad. The burden of proof is not on AmyLee.

I could continue a check list - refuting each and every point noted by Ms. Garcia who undoubtedly believes her own skewed perceptions. However, if history repeats itself here, I would only be ridiculed on this site as a troll, shill, or presumed to be AmyLee herself or someone you dismiss as having been fooled by her. Instead, I offer a novel solution or at least a refreshing perspective. The list of libel and character defamation against AmyLee is growing to the point of endangering the actual good work this forum does. I have forwarded this thread to Domingo Rivera, cyber defamation attorney. Relax - not to sue anybody – but to review, then offer his professional opinion about its content and conduct and to offer a reasonable resolution if he sees one. I shall also forward him the “evidence??? I have, and inform TALON Inc which owns Her Native Roots Herbals, and snail-mail AmyLee too so that they know what’s going on and have the opportunity to supply documents or responses. You are also free to do the same. While this looks like mediation it is not – no one is bound to anything. No “outcome??? is even being suggested. This is just an option I am in a position to offer in the name of facts, truth and justice – which is what we all say we want. Take it or leave it.


You might be well advised to learn what you can about the new cyber-defamation laws.
His website is: http://www.cyberinternetlawyer.com/Online_Defamation.html

My email address is: IndiMedia@live.com  Subject line: AmyLee.  Please forward all information to me and I will take responsibility for seeing he receives it.
 
I suspect it will take him awhile to report back to this site with his findings and assessment. If you are going to send me anything to forward to him, please do so in the next two weeks.
Until then, tempted posters may wish to think twice, just in case this does grow into something with legal implications. Further libel could endanger this site, its hosts and the posters. Corporations do not take kindly to having their family members – be it their products or their volunteers, senselessly slandered and threatened.

I know just enough about the law to know when I need to call an expert. Race is a core issue in this thread. The legal definition of ‘lynching’ also includes extrajudical punishment meted out by a mob with a 'mob' being defined as "two or more persons, without color or authority of law, coming together for the purpose (predetermined at the onset or not) of harming another and from which death does not result." You clearly want to harm her – her reputation, community standing, and any products with which she is connected. I don’t think anyone here really wants mob rule. A time out, a voice of unbiased reason from a cyber-attorney, seems prudent at this point – for all concerned.

While I have been open with you that I have knowledgeable reason to believe AmyLee is innocent of all allegations here, I am also open to being proven wrong. If there is enough substantial information forwarded to me it might also make a good story for First Voices Radio or another media venue I might arrange.  JB


Hi JB.  I'm one of the ones who doesn't know a lot about AmyLee.  I've been attempting to take sometime to learn a little about her.  I'm noticing one thing about her though.  There is definitely a concerted effort to remove her and her name from things on the net.  When I first started reading this thread on the 5th of September the Iroquois Bird Flu Remedy did exist on the net, attributed to AmyLee and then a few days later when I clicked the link again it had disappeared with a message from the site owner stating that the post was removed per request of AmyLee.

Another interesting thing that came up was the site of one of her students who is a teacher at Artsonia Art School.  A google searched turned up Amylee's name on her "Meet the teachers" page, but when I clicked the link the quote wasn't there.   Here's the page as it exists now.

http://www.artsonia.com/schools/teachers.asp?id=1014

But here's a cached version of this same page dating August 12.

link to Google's cached version of the page

There is a line that is removed from the former description which reads:  "Amy Lee, Iroquois elder, medicine woman and shield builder, has greatly influenced her subject matter. Veronica has been a member of Amy Lee’s spiritual group for women since 1991.
"

The current page is missing these two sentences.


Not saying this is proof of anything....it's only things that can truly be attributed to third parties....just a weird coincidence.  Definitely goes along with an effort to remove AmyLee's digital footprint however.

I've also seen a Seneca site that lists her as a Seneca author.  So is she enrolled Seneca??  Why is it such a big secret??  It certainly doesn't follow the behavior pattern of someone with nothing to hide.  I'm still on the fence about it.  If she's Indian, if she's doin' good work....all the best.  If she's tryin' to sell religion...wrong on all fronts.  Haven't seen anything truly one way or the other....

The legend about "She Who Catches the Rainbows"....I finally caught where that came from.  From the way it's written on the website it's a fantasy.

The suspicious type of behavior though still puzzles me...why try and disappear??


Barnaby's note: link to cached page shortened to make page fit better in browser windows.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:26:31 pm by Pat »

Offline Kevin

  • Posts: 182
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2008, 06:39:59 pm »
Smudging with Lawyers:
Why if a site is posted for us unelightened ones, i.e. Domingo Rivera, would anyone need to email you first? I don't quite understand that. It's been my observation and experience too that anyone who 'telegraphs' fighting intentions usually loses.

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 869
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2008, 09:17:49 pm »
...Ms. Rose Garcia (Southwest Skeptic) posted deceptively worded misrepresentation...a lengthy list of other falsified posts...over 52 false and misleading statements...Ms. Garcia makes numerous outrageous claims which smack of cyber-stalking...The veracity of Ms. Garcia is the real question...

I think you should have run those statements by your lawyer before posting them: they look potentially libellous to me. I doubt that you've done any favours for your friend.

Superdog, you saw Amylee's latest gimmick, the 'songpods'! Check out the schtick!

Quote
A percentage from each sale benefits both Native and Nature Projects.

Which ones? Where are the accounts published?

Quote
We guarantee your Bliss! Settle for nothing less!

Just too cheesy for words.

Quote
The Inventor is Native American Indian. SongPods are not presented as an 'American Indian Made Craft' nor 'traditional Indian Art form.'

No, they're just promoted via a site which features a stereotypical "Native American" in the top left-hand corner of every page. That's the only clue a twinkie needs to know it'll make 'em feel spirchul.

Quote
Metallurgy Apprentices from diverse cultural paths converge at her forest studio to learn their welded mysteries.

-- vomits on keyboard --



Responding to a claim made here on a page referred to by a previous poster - that this Amylee person now concentrates on 'wildlife protection'. My better half also does this and knows a very large number of wildlife people on both sides of the Atlantic. She and her colleagues make enormous personal sacrifices to care for animals and birds that need help. They do not have time to be talking about themselves on some radio show or promoting tinkling gimmicks on the web.

Really all you've got to do is look at her claims and her past, and then briefly think about Tehanetorens' (Ray Fadden's) life, and you know who's for real. As well as building and running the Six Nations Indian Museum with his family, he fed dozens of bears and thousands of birds in the woods near his home in the Adirondacks - in his own words, "to help out, the best I can".

Frauds in this sphere are also not looked on kindly. If Amylee is lying about this then she's going to be on a lot more sh*tlists.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2008, 10:19:45 pm by Barnaby_McEwan »

Offline SouthwestSkeptic

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #36 on: September 19, 2008, 02:32:07 am »

Nice try at intimidation, shield maker. 

For a booking agent, you’re not much of a fact checker. 

If you verified Miss Swartz’s claims then why not share the information with us? Did she “offer??? her government issued documentation or did she actually produce it? There’s a big difference.  Why has she refused to produce this documentation to everyone who’s asked her over the last 30 years?

What is her real name and in what federally recognized “Iroquois??? tribe is she recognized as a medicine woman?  If she’s so legit, why does she refuse to provide this information?  I challenge you to provide proof that AmyLee has any sort of government documentation.

I didn’t post anything about Miss Swartz that wasn’t public information.  If Miss Swartz didn’t want people to know who her relatives are then why did she post her family’s genealogy online for everyone to see along with her mama's obituary bragging about being in the sisterhood of the shields?. Miss Swartz makes it so easy to disprove her bogus claims it’s like she wants to get caught.

Nothing I posted was “deceptive??? and I don’t know how anyone could “defame??? the great medicine womon (sic) with her own words.  Nothing was misrepresented in my posts. I quoted AmyLee directly. I heard her speaking myself on the radio with my own ears.  If you think I got it wrong, I challenge you to post an accurate transcript so EVERYONE can see what Miss Swartz claims to be.
 
Everything I posted came directly from AmyLee’s mouth or from Her Native Roots website. The quotes are still in my initial post for anyone to check.  A lot of the Her Native Roots advertising is cached.

Every word I published either came directly from Newsletters sent out by Her Native Roots, was directly transcribed from the radio broadcast (which anyone could have listened to AmyLee speaking in her own voice  when the link was up) or was copied directly from AmyLee’s advertising on the internet.  The Bird Flu advertising was unaltered came directly from Her Native Roots. I reproduced it with permission from the client to whom it was sent. The colon cleanse is still being advertised --  google “Her Native Roots??? + “colon cleanse??? and you can still see the old advertisement.  The Better Business bureau has copies of the original ad along with Miss Swartz’s claim to be an “Iroquois??? selling a Native American product. All this information was available to you before you booked Miss Swartz.

 It sure is suspicious how all mention of Miss Swartz being an “Iroquois medicine womon (sic)??? has  been removed from the internet.  However, nothing ever disappears in cyber-space.  Screen shots are the greatest things!  (and hard paper copies admissible in court, too!) 

The gig is up, shieldmaker. You can take down your sites and try to hide your tracks, but I made lots and lots screen shots before I posted to this forum so you didn’t manage to destroy any evidence of your fraud and misrepresentation.  They’ve all been mailed to the attorney general of the state where you reside and to every single Mohawk and Seneca tribal leader I could find.

Why don’t you contact the attorney general and ask him what the penalty is for fraud and misrepresentation?

I don’t know why you’re so hostile to RRC, since it appears you’ve made a career plagiarizing them and Amoja Three Rivers and Andrea Smith too.  Wasn’t Amoja the first native woman to confront you on your fakery back in the 1990s? Didn’t Andrea denounce you for your fakery also? No love lost there huh?

The American Indian Tribe forum called you on all your B.S and so did the people over on Native Tube as well as almost the entire “Women of Color tent at the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music Festival just before your early ‘retirement.’ That’s a whole lot criticism coming from a diverse group of people. Are you going to threaten to sue them all to shut them up?
 
By the way, I came across a very interesting book in the library this weekend. It’s titled Profiles in Wisdom: Native Elders speak about the Earth by Steve McFadden.  AmyLee the “shieldmaker??? herself is interviewed in this book.

There is a picture of the great and powerful AmyLee that looks pretty stereotypical to me. I’ve never seen a Native woman braid her hair like that, but I’ve seen it a lot in the movies.
 The “shieldmaker??? is interviewed with several other people who’s ‘wisdom’ we are all familiar with
Some of the other alleged elders are: Dhyani Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Sun Bear, Oh Shinnah and Hunbatz Men.  The contents refer to AmyLee as “Massapowa for the people of the morning light.???

Maybe you’ll want to sue Mr. McFadden for defamation after he printed all this:

Many of the claims made by “AmyLee??? that have mysteriously disappeared from the internet still remain in print.  Excerpts from her chapter, “Sacred Roles of Women and Men???  are cited below:

“AmyLee, the Shieldmaker, She Who Catches Rainbows??? (McFadden,  p. 181)

“born of Iroquois parents.???  (McFadden,  p. 181)

“AmyLee has by circumstance become the last woman in an ancient lineage of woodland Indians women who have practiced the medicine ways??? (McFaddden,  p. 181)

“Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place in Tippecanoe Ohio.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

“She also serves as a guide for two-leggeds (human beings) and she shares the ancient healing ways.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

AmyLee “developed and conducted a series of American Indian values courses??? … “at Kent State University???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

“AmyLee has long reddish-brown hair that, when spread out, is evocative of her totem the magnificent red tailed hawk.??? (McFadden, p. 181)

“I’m the last in a long line of women who have been called to a medicine-way path, women of Iroquois lineage.??? (McFadden, p. 182)

“Interestingly, the mothers of the lineage had only one daughter.??? 
“In our medicine ways the passage on of ritual and other wisdom from elders skips every 7th generation.???
“The women of that generation gets to go out and do other things.???

“My mother is one of the seventh generation women, that the lineage skipped her generation.???
(McFadden,  p. 182)

“I am the first person in a new count of seven, but I am also the last generation of the whole lineage.???
(McFadden, p. 182)

“It was foretold to me that I wouldn’t have children.???

“And I don’t see in creation’s plan that I should spend my energy putting it in to one child.???  “Instead I have all these baskets of seeds that I have been gifted with from my grandmothers to hand out to other people.??? (McFadden, p. 182)

“From early childhood, AmyLee was gradually exposed to the teachings and medicine of her elders.???
“at times being the center of that ritual as I became a woman.???

“I had my Moontimes at age nine???   “allowed me to participate in adult rituals at a very early age.???

I was taught my great-great grandmother’s medicine ways.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“Great great grandma had three medicine bundles she kept by her door.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“One had medicine for her to give as a midwife to help babies come into the world.???
“Another had medicine to help those leaving this world.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“A third bag for those who were still going to be in the world.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


Referring to her Iroquois great great grandmother,
“She lived alone.??? (McFadden, p. 183)


“Most of the women in our family live alone.???  “Men leave because medicine women really don’t have the ability to take care of them, but a medicine man usually needs a woman to take care of him.???
(McFadden, p. 183)


“People from all cultures would come to her (grandmother) because by then we were off the reserve.???

“Our family left the reservation when both alcohol and missionaries came.???
(McFadden p. 183)

“Grandma zapped cancer off a man’s face with her laserlike hands.???
(McFadden, p. 183)

“… told him to be grateful to the cancer for teaching him …???
(McFadden, p. 183)

“Like the last dinosaur.???  “As the last woman in a long line of Iroquois Medicine women, AmyLee is carefully deliberately opening the medicine bundles of her family tradition to give the contents away.???
(McFadden, p. 186)


“I truly do believe that Native American Indians are not only endangered species, but one that is on the brink of extinction.??? AmyLee in
(McFadden, p. 186)

“The making of shields …is an inherited seed that AmyLee is sharing.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“AmyLee is sharing the tradition of the shields.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“The medicine of the shields will work only in the woodlands.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“At the 1989 summer solstice AmyLee invited all women to earn the right to build their own shields.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

“The women give birth to their shields.  My job is as midwife to the women to help them give birth.???

“For several moon cycles, the women give birth to them.???
(McFadden, p. 194)

Is AmyLee responsible for allowing her picture to be published in this book along with all the bogus claims she made in print?  This is HER interview with HER own words. The book was published in 1991 and it’s still available online. How do you explain her ridiculous claims now?

I’m sure there are lots of angry women who attended the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music festival I’ve been chatting with who would be happy to tell the attorney general all about the $300.00 they blew on wolf clan memberships. There’s a couple posts in their forum about her.

I got my initial information from an irate Mohawk woman in another forum.  She’s says everything AmyLee said in Profiles in Wisdom is bogus.   

Anyone who wants to can check out the book I referenced here:
https://millennium.marmot.org:444/search~S93?/dNew+Age+movement+--+Handbooks,+manuals,+etc./dnew+age+movement+handbooks+manuals+etc/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=dnew+age+movement+north+america&1%2C1%2C


They sure do use the word shaman a lot, you better sue these people right quick!


Rose
I'm not a bird, I'm not a plane, I'm super NDN skeptic -
Debunking non-NDN bunk, one nut at a time!

Offline Kevin

  • Posts: 182
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #37 on: September 19, 2008, 02:48:57 am »
Ouch and double ouch! there sure are alot of referenced, direct quotes in the previous post. If it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it must be a duck - quack! quack! (fraud! fraud!) I think Amy Shield Duck is about ready to fly south for good. Imagine things being deleted but cached - sounds like something a fake lawyer would advise someone to do, eh?

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #38 on: September 19, 2008, 04:31:27 am »
Mr. Wingo's post was intended to intimidate, and no doubt also to itself smear and come very close to libeling some of the members here. If he truly intended legal action, or even simply wanted to ask about his concerns with the site mods about the posts about his client, he would have contacted a moderator privately. But he has not.

It's very curious the coordinated yet clumsy efforts by Wingo and the anonymous Kathi/InHisHands. First a long series of claims that Amylee has been retired for 15 years, followed by demands from her booking agent and then threats of employing a libel attorney specializing in protecting businesses and business owners whose profits are threatened.

But just forwarding your claims to an attorney means little. If Rivera were working as counsel for Wingo or Amylee, we no doubt would have heard from Rivera, not Wingo, and not "Kathi" who sounds amazingly like Amylee. As it is, Wingo is just doing some very silly name dropping, when by his own admission Rivera is not his lawyer, only potentially/possibly/kinda maybe in the future.

Incidentally, Amylee's profile on the American Indian Tribes forum is still up, even though Amylee deleted all her posts there, to hide evidence no doubt, much like she or others acting on her behalf are now doing elsewhere on the net.

Amylee's AIT profile lists her profession as "medicine woman." Perhaps Wingo will advise Amylee to sue herself. Or perhaps Wingo could develop a streak of ethics and realize his client has been lying to him, and drop her before his own reputation suffers.

Offline Min Toro

  • Posts: 2
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2008, 02:19:34 pm »
I barely know where to begin as this is hopefully going to be my one and only statement. (I have a life.)
Firstly, while I think “JB??? is trying to make some sense of this wayward thread, I am always a little suspect of both “media??? and “lawyers.??? Could be JB is trying to get something sensational to turn Amylee into a hot media ticket to “book??? elsewhere? If so, you all are certainly helping – media thrives on controversy! (Good luck, JB, as I think she’s only made one television and two radio appearances in 30 or so years - for free and as favors to friends, and they picked the topics. She’s never had an “Agent??? nor expressed to us an interest in getting one.) Or could be JB is sincerely trying to get to all the facts. Regardless, I have no problem sending my “evidence??? to the email address and am confident it will land on that lawyer’s desk. I am interested in his legal opinion as long as I’m not footing the bill.  Kevin asks why send it to JB? Makes sense to me – sounds like the lawyer is either doing this as a favor to JB or maybe for a flat fee, as long as JB does the research-gathering and sends it to him for a one-time look-see. Otherwise, if we sent a stream of email directly to the lawyer, it could rack up a bigger tab for JB or a bigger freebie commitment than the lawyer was wanting to make. Those are my rational deductions. Now, onto more FACTS, for which all my hard evidence is being forwarded to Mr. J.B. Wingo.
                                                           -Racism-
This response is directed at Kathryn and her posts on this thread. I have known Amylee spanning 3 decades and worked the same place as her in the past. You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.??? Amylee IS a Native American woman!   YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist.  That you presume the right to speak on behalf of all Native American women, without their consensus, while you yourself are white, also makes you the racist. We each have our own voices. You are acting out of a delusional sense of presumptuous entitlement by declaring we have been somehow hurt by Amylee – that’s racist, condescending and harms all people.  You take it upon yourself to “protect??? Native and other women – as though women needed your paternalistic ego-driven interference. You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women??? – solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were! How ignorant. Or arrogant. (Both being ingredients in racism.) I know better – I was at more than one Native community where she was asked to share with Native Women. I also crossed the border with her and saw her ID’s.

By the way, the big Iriqouis “secrets??? Amylee shared with white women? It was the same thing the Iriquois women have been openly sharing with U.S. women since the days of suffrage – about how to take responsibility for yourselves and how to gain equality, not by whining for it, but by earning it and living it! And the “shields??? thing – the shields she talked about were metaphorical – like skin, ozone, topsoil, forest canopies – and how those “shields??? of nature have been compromised and it’s up to humans to act responsibly to mend them. You can read about that in Profiles In Wisdom (just not in Rose’s hallucinatory edition – see “Proof??? below). She used a modern leather artwork “shield??? that had a story painted on it (not an imitation ceremonial or historical Plains shield) just to illustrate the fables she told. Through those fables she helped others find their own strong and moral voices. That’s all. There was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!??? Ludicrous! Those are your “big sacred secrets’ you are thinking she “co-opted.???  So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf by calling her names with legal implications (“liar??? “fraud??? “racist???) for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free? No where do I see on this site a request by Iriquois women for you to try to ruin someone’s reputation with your lies. That presumptive act on your part is racist. You do not speak for Native American women. You do not speak for the Iriquois. You do not speak for me.   Stop it.
           
MatoSiWin - You talk about “putting out the fires??? caused by new agers – you should ask Amylee how many fires caused by new agers she tried to extinguish! (I think that’s why she retired from public life – “burned out??? over new age nonsense. At least that’s what one of the books she’s in implies.) Example: about Amylee appearing at the Bear Tribe – lots of good people came and went, like R. Carlos Nakai, Dr. Eunice Baumann, and many, many others! When Amylee learned women were abused by so-called Elders there, she took a stand and said she could not give women the false impression it was safe there, by virtue of her being there too. She also asked them to not offer co-ed sweat lodges. She asked them to stop calling those lodges and ceremonies “traditional.??? When they declined, she made her courageous statement (she was still young to be talking that way to anyone older) and respectfully left – then she took out ads in magazines asking women who had been abused at any kind of so-called spiritual gathering to contact her and the professionals she worked with if they wanted support. I was one. That was in the late 1980’s or early1990! What were YOU doing back then?  Is that how Amylee hurt women, Kathryn? By going to the same gathering you were at? And then proactively and respectfully addressing a serious problem as soon as she learned about it? Is it any wonder she wanted to “retire??? from public life!
                                     
                                                  - A Rose to the occasion -

To Southwest Skeptic – You are so young – about same age as my granddaughter. You need to slow down – this is an obsession you started. IF you are the same one who took Amylee’s photo (which my husband photographed) from a copyrighted site and used it to set up fake online accounts in her name to make her look ‘new-age’ that is a crime. ( IP checking works both ways, Rose.)  IF you are the one who put her name on porn sites to make it look like she was into that – that is a crime too. It was not Amylee but someone who tried to slander Amylee in a post that got taken off Native Tube - and no one there was laughing. (I am forwarding a copy of Native Tube’s chastisement, and the IP they provided as the slanderer’s, as “evidence??? for the law-boy.) The Michigan women forum does not criticize her in any way. Post the link here if you think it does. Further, you have stated that she was “posting??? on and then “laughed off??? the Indian Tribe Forum link: http://forum.americanindiantribe.com/viewtopic.php?t=6077&start=0 but there is no evidence she EVER even posted there! That link you provide to American Indian tribe’s forum doesn’t say she “posted??? but that she instead (may have – maybe it was you!) privately EMAILED one of the posters! Just HOW MANY ERRORS is a poster here allowed before a Moderator or Administrator pulls the plug and apologizes?

You now add “plagiarist??? to your slanderous and undocumented accusations against Amylee. Again, no proof. Just more RRC ancient echoes. Then you advertise in these very posts, YOUR alleged crime of multiple copyright infringements in addition to the likely lies you submitted to bait Native leaders to reply. Again, you are so young…

SouthWest, you state: “She also claims to be the only daughter of an only daughter, yet her sisters, neices and aunts have a different opinion.???
Now I know you are either barking up the wrong family tree or delusional. If she ever had birth “Sisters and Nieces??? and if she still has living Aunts, please let her know who these mythic beings are! It would lighten the grief of believing she is an orphan now. Also, speaking from my first hand knowledge, I am certain Amylee would not know how to “upload??? any obituaries and I am fairly certain she would deem the internet an inappropriate venue for such intimate tributes.

                                                        - Very Important -

I further concur with JB, as you  (Rose/Southwest skeptic) grossly misquoted Amylee about the radio show. The most memorable to me was when you posted here that Amylee
“claimed to be fluent in the Iroquois language, but she couldn’t translate her Indian name “She who catches rainbows??? because every word is a sentence and it would be quite a long run on sentence to combine.???
That is a lie.  And, a run-on sentence. Actually two lies in one run-on sentence. Both being bold-faced LIES YOU created. She wasn’t even talking about her name – she was asked about synonyms for the “broad and evolving multiple definitions of a modern day medicine woman??? (there’s the transcript, Rose. Read it and weep). You clearly did not want to hear those words, as that shoots down your whole campaign against her - which has as its basis YOUR LIE that she ever claimed to be a “traditional medicine woman FOR or TO any tribe!??? She works with animals! THAT’S what she said on the radio! She’s a ‘modern-day medicine woman’ to animals! NOT to any tribe or people!
(Be ashamed. Be very ashamed.)
You then beg us to believe you with your next pathetic plea:
Nothing I posted was “deceptive??? and I don’t know how anyone could “defame??? the great medicine womon (sic) with her own words.  Nothing was misrepresented in my posts. I quoted AmyLee directly.??? You may “hear with your own ears,??? and “read with your own eyes,??? but they are twisted beyond believability. YOU are the ONLY person who ever “heard??? Amylee say your translation.
(You’re on a slippery slope, Rose. If someone here offers you some help, please take it.)

The letter from Paul Spicer was in direct response to the false information supplied him by SouthwestSkeptic. The things she wrongfully accused Amylee of doing are things Amylee herself would also label “fraudulent and inappropriate.??? She never did any of them during the 3 decades I knew her. How does anyone “prove??? to your satisfaction that someone never did something! Impossible! But just as impossible then will be producing credible “proof??? she ever did things like “sell Wolf Clan Memberships!???  (She’s not even Wolf Clan herself!!!!) Amylee never condoned the “Wolf Clan??? activities of Twylah Nitsch who spawned a lot of “instant Wolf Clan members.??? Twy was an elder, and out of respect Amylee would not have publicly spoken against those activities, but she sure never endorsed their goings-on either. This whole thread is wrong in too many ways. With Amylee’s proven track record against cultural appropriation and racism, she should have been invited to be an advisor to your forum, not targeted by it!

                                                        - More Evidence -

By the way, Rose, I see you posted :
 
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2008, 09:20:50 pm »   
 
“I got a list of Mohawk/Seneca tribal leaders and wrote/emailed them.
The first response I recieved was from Chief Paul Spicer
He gave me permission to post his response to my inquiries:
….As more come in I'll post them.??? (wink)
Then on  April 9th, 2008, at another forum, not so surprisingly hosted by RRC  mouthpieces, you claim:
 Re: Information about Amylee please!

???I contacted every tribal leader of the Seneca and Mohawk Nation, and they all bascially said, she's offensive to them and they don't consider her to be a medicine woman or a representative of their spiritual beliefs. This is what Chief Paul Spicer had to say. He gave me permission to post his thoughts….???

The obvious question here is, Rose, where are all the other alleged replies from all the other Iroquois communities that “all basically said she’s offensive to them….???  You have set yourself up to now have to produce the very evidence you claim to have received. Where is a copy of the EXACT letter you sent them? Where are all the “replies??? you state you have received as a matter of FACT?  And why did you not return to this thread to “post them,??? “as more come in,??? as you so promised, punctuated with your “wink???? It’s been 7 months….Post them –Here – Now - if they exist beyond your perverse wishes.

                        -To Dan and SuperDog –

 “Dan??? – I did like your comments. I wish you could have met Amylee in person. I think you’d have liked her and I know she’d have understood and respected your opinions as being a part of your heart and not your ego.

SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention. – I am also wagering that THIS entire thread will be held accountable for its libelous errors and eventually do the same thing – disappear. I don’t see that Amylee actually has her own digital footprint, other than one posted review she made elsewhere in support of a traditional elder – otherwise, it’s all other people writing about her and possibly quoting her or, like Miss Skeptic, misquoting her or the frauds who set up accounts in her name, using her stolen image. (“Digital mis-prints!??? instead of digital footprints).


                                                      - A Challenge -
Anybody here want to take over Amylee’s  “spiritual group project??? she asked her last audience to do? Go to ebay every week (as some of us have done for the past 12 years) and type in the word “squaw.??? Then one by one email those couple hundred sellers with the note Amylee wrote for us to tactfully correct their misuse of the word, and ask them to change their listing and to then educate others about it being so offensive, derogatory and racist. So much for how Amylee “hurts Native American women!???

Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them. Ray’s the one with silver streaks in his flaming red hair. (It was a long time ago. My husband; again the  photographer.) Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea – deemed to be one of the most difficult medical procedures in animal veterinary medicine - that makes her a “modern day medicine woman??? (and hero) in my book, and in many other credible professionals’ estimation. You were saying?


-   The Proof –

Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong. Regardless, go to the link Rose/Southwest Skeptic herself posts and remember her own words as they now come back to shame her here and conclusively demonstrate how she manipulates facts. SHE STATES:

???Anyone who wants to can check out the book I referenced here:
https://millennium.marmot.org:444/search~S93?/dNew+Age+movement+--+Handbooks,+manuals,+etc./dnew+age+movement+handbooks+manuals+etc/-3%2C-1%2C0%2CB/frameset&FF=dnew+age+movement+north+america&1%2C1%2C
…Some of the other alleged elders are: Dhyani Ywahoo, Twyla Nitsch, Sun Bear, Oh Shinnah and Hunbatz Men.  The contents refer to AmyLee as “Massapowa for the people of the morning light.???

For anyone here actually interested in FACTS you will see in the online table of contents of Rose’s own posted link - that Rose has once again erred.   AmyLee is NOT referred to as “Massapowau for the People of the Morning Light.??? That is the NEXT chapter’s title and about a Wampanoag man! (How could you make that mistake from also having your own “hard copy,??? Rose?) I suspect much of what she has misrepresented here is due to misreading and mishearing. Given the sheer number of errors she has made yet vehemently defends, I reasonably suspect Rose may have a learning or perceptual problem. (At least that would make a good defense in a courtroom.) (The rest of you? No such excuses.) Other comments by her are clearly fraudulent and then there is guilt by omission – such as failing to mention that the revered Elders, Tom Porter and Eunice Baumann-Nelson and Lorraine Canoe were also interviewed for the same book. She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one. (Did you catch that Kathryn – applying it to your January 30, 2008  comment that Amylee referred to herself, “claiming to be an Elder??? several years prior to this book’s publication! It never happened. Insert apology here:                                   .)

I could follow each of Rose’s so-called excerpts from the book and re-type the actual words that appear in the text. Example, Rose’s rendition: “Grandma zapped cancer off a man’s face with her laserlike hands.???(McFadden, p. 183)
While the actual text reads, from a little girl’s memory,  “…a big ugly growth – it wasn’t really a wart, it was probably a cancer of some sort….??? BIG Difference Rose.

And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden,  p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)??? – that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here? 

 And this one:
“… told him to be grateful to the cancer for teaching him …???
(McFadden, p. 183) The word “cancer??? is entirely Rose’s word choice.
How is the reader supposed to know – especially when she places QUOTE MARKS around it! I could go on for the entirety of her alleged “quotes.??? Want more, or are as you nauseated too?                   
 I can’t resist – just one more, I’ll swallow hard :
“The medicine of the shields will work only in the woodlands.???
(McFadden, p. 194) Again with the quote marks. Well, only if you are quoting yourself, Rose. No one else said such a thing! For anyone with a copy of the book, if you care to follow along, you will see this sad woman’s attempt to be her own little super-hero squirrel, cracking imaginary nuts, one at a time (as she boasts on her own website and on her choice of logo ID when posting here). This is profoundly disturbing, and that anyone believes her, well, that’s just lazy slander by proxy.

Rose concludes, “Is AmyLee responsible for allowing her picture to be published in this book along with all the bogus claims she made in print?  This is HER interview with HER own words. The book was published in 1991 and it’s still available online. How do you explain her ridiculous claims now?
Better question, Rose, how do you explain falsifying quotes, attempting to further defame Amylee with your libelous claims now? To hand your own earlier pronouncement about Amylee back to you: (she) “…makes it so easy to disprove her bogus claims it’s like she wants to get caught.??? Consider yourself caught, Rose, and on your own many jagged and inescapable thorns. Now somebody do the right thing, and help this young woman!

THIS is precisely the kind of sloppy research that is on this whole site. It’s as though someone dropped several dozen jigsaw puzzles on the internet and all you super-sleuths are trying to make ONE pre-conceived damning picture out of the fragmented non-fitting pieces. Even if you cut corners and force the mismatched pieces into one picture – it’s still doomed as two-dimensional and hardly representative of real live Truth.

Trying to insert FACTS into this hostile territory is exhausting, but a slander campaign so mis-targeted deserves a few knowledgeable people who will stand up for Truth.  (You’re welcome, Amylee, wherever you are.) I now take my leave -  as Kathryn and cadre yell after me the only way you know how to handle someone with a different opinion based on first-hand facts, and now irrefutably demonstrated evidence, which trumps all this posted fictitious prattle. I hear your railing rant echoing at my back: “Prove it!??? “Troll!??? “Shill!??? “Racist!??? “Fraud!??? “Libelor!??? “Liar!??? “Duped Stupid Woman!??? 

(Look in the mirror.)






Offline Defend the Sacred

  • Global Moderator
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  • Posts: 3470
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2008, 04:24:40 pm »
You state that Amylee is “hurting Native American women.??? Amylee IS a Native American woman!   YOU are hurting her! That you attempt to deny her her birthright, based on hearsay, heresy, her-say makes you the racist.

From what I've seen, Amylee is not NDN. And even if she were, the evidence I've seen indicates she's a fraud and a ceremony seller with a history of lying to, and financially and spiritually exploiting, both Native and non-Native women. To think it's somehow racist to discuss someone's actions, or that a person of any race should be immune to being discussed by a person of another race, is just ignorant. That sort of attitude is one that many of the frauds hide behind.

When outsiders to a culture try to tell people of another culture how to run their lives or their ceremonies, that is racist. But that is not what people here are doing. What people here are doing is going after those who rip off and misrepresent traditional cultures. We also expose those who use a (real or fabricated) connection to a traditional culture to harm or exploit seekers.

We are a multi-racial, multi-cultural community here, and this also holds true for my personal life. If all the people I know were not supposed to talk about family and friends of different cultural backgrounds, or not allowed to call them on their behaviour if they do something inappropriate by our shared agreements of what is and isn't acceptable behaviour... uh, yeah, that just doesn't work. That sort of thing gives free reign to abusers.

I find it fascinating that you think I'm "presum[ing] to speak on behalf of all Native American women". I've done nothing of the sort. Though if others here (or who know me in person), women or men whose identities and histories are actually known, feel I have overstepped, please tell me. But the opinions of strangers on the Internet don't really matter to me, especially when they're strangers who defend frauds.

I guess it's possible Amylee has done some good things as well. Most people have, even the most twisted of frauds. But I haven't heard about it. Thing is, I left the newage circles Amylee runs in decades ago.

Quote
You wrongly declare Amylee only taught “white women???

I only saw and heard of white women attending her events, yes.

Quote
– solely based on who was in attendance where you or your white informants were!

Interesting. So now the women she has exploited financially, who she sold a fake sense of being "Native American Shield Carriers" are "white informants." Fascinating.

Quote
there was never any “charge for ceremony??? (“obscene??? in Amylee’s eyes) and never any “local groups??? you mention, and so there were never any “white men??? to be “left in charge??? of those nonexistent “groups!???

*shrugs* Maybe she didn't tell you everything. I know women who were heavily solicited for the groups. The white man was a newager in the D.C./Maryland area. IIRC, he ran a newage store there. I don't know if the group ever got off the ground there, as the women I know weren't interested. Even the really newage ones were put off by her wanting to have a man run it.

Quote
for teaching respect for the environment, and for others and for oneself, and to teach it for free?

Oh, I don't think anyone is accusing her of teaching "for free."

Offline Barnaby_McEwan

  • Posts: 869
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2008, 08:11:05 pm »
Amylee IS a Native American woman!

And we should just take your word for that? Her claimed tribal affiliation changes over time. No one seems to claim her as a relative. Even if she is native, she's violated community mores in a hugely offensive way.

Quote
So where on this site is the official mandate issued by any tribe, Native community, traditional government asking you to take it upon yourself, to go after someone, on their tribal behalf...

This site is not operated on any tribe's behalf and does not need to be: no one needs permission to do the right thing. We're not here to "go after" people. We're here to protect people from the likes of your friend.
           
Quote
SuperDog – you may be this site’s sole redeeming voice of reason. About the disappearing “digital footprint??? – the internet does change – by the nano-second. But, I’m also betting some people who misrepresented Amylee simply “corrected their errors??? though I don’t know who brought those errors to their attention.

Or maybe she's afraid the IRS will start sniffing around.

Quote
Barnaby – If you ever go to Tehanetorens’ (Ray Fadden’s) Museum in Onchiota, you will see a photo of Ray sitting next to his longtime good friend and MUTUAL supporter, Amylee, with a hawk standing on a stump between them.

If I ever get the opportunity I will ask the Fadden family how much they knew about her when that photo was taken. If they consider her someone who helps animals, great. However people who construct fantasy worlds in which they're super-special are rarely suited to wildlife work. I've seen it before; the animals brought to them are not as important as the star of the show, and they pay the price of their keeper's vanity.

Quote
Amylee directed the surgical team which removed and replaced the injured hawk’s cornea...

That's a vague statement: did she just say, "Do the procedure: I can pay" down the phone to a veterinary surgeon? Who was in this surgical team? Where was the procedure done? Was anything published in Veterinary Ophthalmology or a similar scientific journal?

Quote
Steven McFadden’s interview of AmyLee, like all interviews, never contains poor edits or errors, and interviewees always know who else is going to make the final cut and appear in the author’s book – right? Wrong.

Oh, I see: it's someone else's fault. I've ordered copies of both editions, published nine years apart. That would be plenty of time for your friend to contact the author with corrections.

Quote
She also fails to note that Amylee seemed embarrassed and apologetic to be in a book about “Native Elders??? when she herself said in the book’s interview, that she was clearly not one.

If she was that embarrassed she could have just refused to be interviewed.

Quote
And adding her own false editorials as though they were in the book: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place…??? (McFadden,  p. 181) The actual TEXT does NOT say ANYWHERE that the former Nature Preserve was “(A non-profit 501 c 3)??? – that is entirely Rose’s inserted fabrication, fraudulently passed off as someone else’s words – complete with deceptive legal implications - anyone else seeing a disturbing trend here?

Yes, in your words. So Rose didn't edit her post as if she's a sub-editor on the NY Times. The book may not say that, I haven't yet seen it, but the IRS website says your friend's place is registered as a 501(c)3 non-profit, under the name "Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc.". Rose did not fabricate that.

Two other sites

http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfo.php?ID=625853&page=1

http://www.nonprofitdata.com/44699/native-american-indian-resource-center-inc.phtml?&cmd=341469934

list this organisation's location as Hawk Hollow Private Nature Preserve, in Tippecanoe, OH. The same address as in the book. I don't believe it's a 'former' preserve; I suspect your friend's recent disappearance from commercial websites, and the frantic interventions we've seen here from you and her other supporters, have something to do with this non-profit of hers.


Offline SouthwestSkeptic

  • Posts: 66
  • I love YaBB 1G - SP1!
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows - From the Horses Mouth
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2008, 02:06:14 am »
 ::)

Miss Swartz,

Your pathetic attempt at a fluffy degree in communications at Kent State hasn’t served you very well Miss Swartz.  Perhaps you should have taken some pre-law or logic courses?

The quotation marks indicate that they were taken from the text that was cited.

It’s permissible to insert parenthetical information in parentheses to add important information that the reader needs to know. The Native American Indian Resource Center in Tippecanoe OH is indeed listed as a non-profit 501 3 c. It’s easy to research them on guidestar.
http://www.guidestar.org

Miss Swartz is currently requesting online donations.

Link to Guidestar 'donate' page

This is now the business of every American citizen who pays taxes.

I typed the post quickly from a poor photocopy of the book.   There are 14 insufferable pages of AmyLee’s pretentious drivel. I wanted to spare the forum from having to read through it all to get to the relevant information about her fraudulent, published claims, but I have NO PROBLEM making it available for everyone to read and critique for themselves.

 Unlike you, I’m concerned with getting at the truth and not distracting people from it with nitpicky details that don’t address the crucial issues of unlawful fraud and misrepresentation here.

To show the world your true character, I’ve scanned the great AmyLee’s interview in Profiles in Wisdom into my geocities site so everyone can get their info right from the horse’s mouth:

http://www.geocities.com/southwestskeptic/ProfilesInWisdom.html


This way interested parties can access to it faster without actually purchasing the tripe.
It’s so ridiculous I think it might give the people who frequent this forum a good chuckle.

Some of the words didn’t scan very well, but you can get the idea of Miss Swartz’s enormous ego.

Oh yeah, before you get your Fake NDN granny pants in a knot over copyright, the way the hucksters like to do, I copied less than 10% of the ‘work’ and is being cited here under fair use.
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

What is most striking to me is that like most flim flam artists, proponents of pseudo-science and other BULLSHIT artists, you pick at typos or trivial grammatical flaws or errors in form rather than honestly addressing the substance of the arguments presented to you. Big red flag there.

What about the genealogy? Publically available. Easy to trace.
You didn’t respond to that?

The subtitle of the McFadden book is, Native Elders speak about the Earth. If Miss Swartz did not deliberately intend to misrepresent herself as a Native Elder, then why did she allow her interview to appear in this book with this subtitle?  She’s had seventeen years to correct the error. Why wait this long?

What about all the Native American women in Hart Michigan who challenged the great AmyLee’s authenticity for decades and prompted her untimely ‘retirement’ at the ripe old age of what 41?
Andrea Smith, Amoja Three Rivers  et. al.

Do you really expect us to believe that hundreds of people misunderstood Miss Swartz in the exact same manner and simultaneously published the exact same fraudulent Native American pedigree about her without deviating a bit?

We’re not as gullible or desperate to shed our whiteness as Miss Swartz target audience.

If, as you imply, Miss Swartz was in fact misunderstood or misquoted, then how do you explain the fact that she has been so perfectly misunderstood and misquoted by so many people in such a perfectly faithful way?
If any ‘misunderstanding’ had occurred, wouldn’t one person say she was one thing and another person say something totally different? How do you explain the near perfect agreement that Miss Swartz was representing herself as an “Iroquois Medicine woman??? selling the right to “birth a shield????

I’m still waiting for a reasonable explanation and an accurate transcript of that radio broadcast.  I guess I’ll have to contact your employer, again to get some answers.

While I re-read the chapter, I noticed something.  On pages 194 and 195 --  as anyone can see --  Miss Swartz brags about how she sent out 200 invitations to her shields scam and 1000 women responded.  According to the pamphlets she passed out at the Michigan Womyn’s (sic) Music Festival, in the 1980s faithfully archived in special collections, it costs $300.00 to be entitled to build that shield.

At $300.00 per sucker multiplied by 1000 suckers, that means that Miss Swartz took in at least $300,000.00. That’s well over the allowed amount to avoid the responsibility to report that income to the IRS in 1989.  Where are the 990s?  I’ve discovered that thiese little details are something the IRS likes to hear about from concerned citizens.

You can erase some of your lies from the internet, but the pamphlets you passed out all over Michigan and Ohio are still in existence, you forgot to get them all back and destroy them. Undoubtedly, there are also some pretty angry women out there who attended that event who would not be please to learn they were taken.

There’s no record of the nonprofit Native American Indian Resource center of Tippecanoe Ohio ever filing the MANDATORY income tax information.
That’s not good.  Not good at all.

I was chatting with the nice people at the IRS just before posting this.  They’re such kind, helpful, positive people and intensely interested in chatting any concerned citizen about any of their concerns about nonprofit fraud.

Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions to contact the IRS and the tribal leaders who could prosecute Miss Swartz under FEDERAL LAW are being acted on right now. I would encourage everyone in this forum is angered by the behavior of Miss Swartz and her shills to contact the IRS and report this 501c 3 fraud.  They can contact me if they need copies to send along with their complaint.
Once again, thanks for being obsessed with having the last word.  It helps to keep the spotlight on this fraud.

Also, if there is anyone who is an enrolled member of any Mohawk or Seneca tribe, please contact me about pursing legal action against Miss Swartz through the federal statutes.

I also think Kent State should know about the kind of charlatans they employ. If anybody has contact info for whoever hired her to teach American Indian studies please email me.

My site may be down for a while because I exceeded my data transfer limit, but it will be back up
by tomorrow.


 :-*


Rose


I know the scans are poor, but I have to work this weekend.
I’ll re-do them when I get a chance.  If you need copies right away, email me and I can send you better scans.


Barnaby's note: thanks for all your work Rose. I've shortened the link to the 'donate' page so this thread fits better in browser windows.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 09:28:28 am by Barnaby_McEwan »
I'm not a bird, I'm not a plane, I'm super NDN skeptic -
Debunking non-NDN bunk, one nut at a time!

Offline SouthwestSkeptic

  • Posts: 66
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Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows - Federal Statutes
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2008, 02:19:08 am »
Any tribally enrolled Mohawk or Seneca people may be interested in the Federal Statute regarding willful impersonation of a Native American Indian for the purpose of selling goods or services.

Title 25 of the US Code as currently published by the US Government reflects the laws passed by Congress as of Jan. 3, 2007, and it is this version that is published here.

" A person specified in subsection (c) of this section may, in a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction, bring an action against a person who offers or displays for sale or sells a good, with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States, to... "

(a) Injunctive or equitable relief; damages
A person specified in subsection (c) of this section may, in a civil action in a court of competent jurisdiction, bring an action against a person who, directly or indirectly, offers or displays for sale or sells a good, with or without a Government trademark, in a manner that falsely suggests it is Indian produced, an Indian product, or the product of a particular Indian or Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization, resident within the United States, to—
(1) obtain injunctive or other equitable relief; and
(2) recover the greater of—
(A) treble damages; or
(B) in the case of each aggrieved individual Indian, Indian tribe, or Indian arts and crafts organization, not less than $1,000 for each day on which the offer or display for sale or sale continues.
For purposes of paragraph (2)(A), damages shall include any and all gross profits accrued by the defendant as a result of the activities found to violate this subsection.
(b) Punitive damages; attorney’s fee
In addition to the relief specified in subsection (a) of this section, the court may award punitive damages and the costs of suit and a reasonable attorney’s fee.
(c) Persons who may initiate civil actions
(1) A civil action under subsection (a) of this section may be commenced—
(A) by the Attorney General of the United States upon request of the Secretary of the Interior on behalf of an Indian who is a member of an Indian tribe or on behalf of an Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization;
(B) by an Indian tribe on behalf of itself, an Indian who is a member of the tribe, or on behalf of an Indian arts and crafts organization; or
(C) by an Indian arts and crafts organization on behalf of itself, or by an Indian on behalf of himself or herself.
(2) Any amount recovered pursuant to this section shall be paid to the individual Indian, Indian tribe, or Indian arts and crafts organization, except that—
(A) in the case of paragraph (1)(A), the Attorney General may deduct from the amount recovered—
(i) the amount for the costs of suit and reasonable attorney’s fees awarded pursuant to subsection (b) of this section and deposit the amount of such costs and fees as a reimbursement credited to appropriations currently available to the Attorney General at the time of receipt of the amount recovered; and
(ii) the amount for the costs of investigation awarded pursuant to subsection (b) of this section and reimburse the Board the amount of such costs incurred as a direct result of Board activities in the suit; and
(B) in the case of paragraph (1)(B), the amount recovered for the costs of suit and reasonable attorney’s fees pursuant to subsection (b) of this section may be deducted from the total amount awarded under subsection (a)(2) of this section.
(d) Definitions
As used in this section—
(1) the term “Indian??? means any individual who is a member of an Indian tribe; or for the purposes of this section is certified as an Indian artisan by an Indian tribe;
(2) subject to subsection (f) of this section, the terms “Indian product??? and “product of a particular Indian tribe or Indian arts and crafts organization??? has the meaning given such term [1] in regulations which may be promulgated by the Secretary of the Interior;
(3) the term “Indian tribe??? means—
(A) any Indian tribe, band, nation, Alaska Native village, or other organized group or community which is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their status as Indians; or
(B) any Indian group that has been formally recognized as an Indian tribe by a State legislature or by a State commission or similar organization legislatively vested with State tribal recognition authority; and
(4) the term “Indian arts and crafts organization??? means any legally established arts and crafts marketing organization composed of members of Indian tribes.
(e) Severability
In the event that any provision of this section is held invalid, it is the intent of Congress that the remaining provisions of this section shall continue in full force and effect.
(f) Regulations
Not later than 180 days after November 9, 2000, the Board shall promulgate regulations to include in the definition of the term “Indian product??? specific examples of such product to provide guidance to Indian artisans as well as to purveyors and consumers of Indian arts and crafts, as defined under this Act.

I think the Mohawk/Seneca people are entitled to a share of the money coming into this "Resource center" since it is being collected under false pretenses.  The name of the charity is "NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESOURCE CENTER INC"

https://www.networkforgood.org/donation/MakeDonation.aspx?ORGID2=34-1469934&source=GS&cmpgn=DNT

They claim they're not required to file 990s
http://www.guidestar.org/pqShowGsReport.do?partner=networkforgood&ein=34-1469934


AmyLee has made a representation of one or more material facts that can easily be proven to be false, she had to have known those representations were false and she made those false representations with the intention that the public would rely on it to make their decisions about donating to her fraudulent 501 3 c
Sound like a prima facia case for fraud to me

Any tribal attorneys out there?


Rose
I'm not a bird, I'm not a plane, I'm super NDN skeptic -
Debunking non-NDN bunk, one nut at a time!

Offline Min Toro

  • Posts: 2
Re: Amylee She Who Catches the Rainbows
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2008, 01:07:21 pm »

Pssst! Those of you watching this farce from home, care to venture a guess which of our two anti-heroes will be the first to discover one of their legally loaded and substantial errors, captured in their own supplied links? Care to guess how they will try to bend and misshapen THAT puzzle piece to fit into the picture they are failing to manufacture?


Will it be Rose, the 20 something college student tenaciously tending her first ever initiated NAFPS Fraud thread? Or, will it be Barnaby, the European Administrator who is egging her on by adding his own errors, encouragement, and vitriolic input to the folly?

Let’s watch, shall we….

Rose inserted, into a quote from the book, her erroneous comment that Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is a 501 (c) 3.
That was, unfortunately, yet another predictable miscall on her part. One with consequences. Barnaby rushes in (as fools often do) to her rescue with his non sequitur comments and his outdated links.

Now comes Rose’s latest rebuttal in defense of her aforementioned error, still unwilling or unable to see it although she spells it out for everyone else to see (her insults have been omitted):

ROSE: “It’s permissible to insert parenthetical information in parentheses to add important information that the reader needs to know. The Native American Indian Resource Center in Tippecanoe OH is indeed listed as a non-profit 501 3 c. It’s easy to research them on guidestar. http://www.guidestar.org???

Very good, Rose. However, the address for the Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. is NOT listed as “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve??? in the GuideStar link YOU posted. To repeat my original issue, YOU are again being challenged on the earlier FALSE statement you posted below:

ROSE: “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve (A non-profit 501 c 3 ) her medicine place in Tippecanoe Ohio.???
(McFadden,  p. 181)

Nice parentheses. However, the information you fabricated in between the parentheses merely substantiates two poster’s assertion that you make more mistakes than sense.  Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is NOT, as you earlier and wrongly posted: “(A non-profit 501 c 3).??? You made yet another huge mistake with looming legal implications. You defiantly repeat that mistake yet again. And ever-helpful Barnaby unwittingly hands you your dose of cyber-cyanide. (What are good Administrators for!)

And you still can’t even see it! This is NOT a trivial little mistake made by an admittedly hurried typist working off of photo-copied text. This is fraud in the first order. ( If it helps to separate the two in your mind, visualize: “Resource Center???….hmmm…an office…with people… versus “Nature Preserve???….hmmm….trees, rocks, dirt.)

Barney tries to defend you and makes it (also predictably) worse (his insults omitted) (Rephrasing: What are Administrators good for!):

Barnaby: “…So Rose didn't edit her post as if she's a sub-editor on the NY Times. The book may not say that, I haven't yet seen it, but the IRS website says your friend's place is registered as a 501(c)3 non-profit, under the name "Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc.". Rose did not fabricate that.???

“My friend’s place??? -  referring to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve via Rose’s fraudulent parenthetical post, is NOT as Barnaby wrongly states, “registered as a 501 (c) 3 nonprofit.???  Hawk Hollow IS listed there UNDER the name Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. – quite literally!  The operative word here is UNDER – as in a PART OF THE PHYSICAL MAILING ADDRESS FOR THE NATIVE AMERICAN INDIAN RESOURCE CENTER, Inc. That’s how we do it here in the colonies – the second line of a three line address is the physical mailing address – NOT the name of the corporation. Your adamant assertion is like saying when the Red Cross has its mail delivered to their office in the Chrysler Building, that magically makes the Chrysler Building a nonprofit charitable organization too, “registered as a 501(c) 3, under the name ‘Red Cross!’???

WRONG! They are NOT interchangeable!  Similarly, most all of the misinformation Rose continues to post is not logically nor legally linked. “Guilt by presumed association??? seems to be the modus operandi here. Willfully falsifying evidence is a serious crime whereas ignorance has its own court of accountability. Again – give the kids a couple jigsaw puzzles and see what distorted fictional puzzle they can INVENT from the mismatched pieces!

Barnaby -  repeating - for unflinching clarity: WHAT ROSE FABRICATED was the lie that Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve was also a 501 (c) 3.  Go ahead, go to www.GuideStar.org and type in a search for “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve??? – you will get NOTHING, including a “dba!???

Rose, please also note that for EVERY 501(c) 3,  GuideStar lists with or without the entity’s permission or even knowledge, the DONATION FORM – and in the case of the Native American Indian Resource Center, it is GuideStar soliciting donations TO the organization, NOT the group itself asking. Given the scant information listed therein it is unlikely that anyone made a donation to them via the GuideStar pitch to do so. Why don’t you ask them? Check their “Frequently Asked Questions??? section for FACTUAL VERIFICATION. (Facts! A new kind of fun!)

By the way Rose, care to tell us about that magical hat from which you pulled your earlier declaration that the Native American Indian Resource Center’s “funding is 100K!??? Clearly the legally filed documents do not support your claim. I am certain cyber-lawyer Rivera, and possibly the Native American Indian Resource Center’s corporate attorney, will be interested in your bold statement, among your growing list of other fantastical claims - unless, of course, you produce some actual evidence. The burden of proof is upon you Rose. And the clock is tick…tick….ticking. You have quite a lot of instant evidence to “produce??? to back up your lengthy list of allegations. (Helpful Hint: You may want to focus on the herb company as they are the most likely to sue first.)

Back to our loyal viewers: Just to make sure we’re all on the same fact sheet: Barnaby’s posted links clearly show Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve as the second ADDRESS line in a three line ADDRESS. Note, the city, state and zip code are the third line. Again -  The Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. is the nonprofit. The FORMER physical road location, city, state, and zip code are not 501(c)3 nonprofit corporations.

Barnaby’s “proof??? becomes his “goof.???  His links are woefully outdated and even if accurate would only prove MY aforementioned point and not his:

http://www.charity-charities.org/charityinfo.php?ID=625853&page=1

http://www.nonprofitdata.com/44699/native-american-indian-resource-center-inc.phtml?&cmd=341469934

The Native American Indian Resource Center, Inc. - a 501(c)3 -  USED TO BE located at Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve. There is a new address for them listed at Guidestar.org – as Rose illustrates with the above evidence against herself.

Try sending mail to anyone at or in care of “Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve, Tippecanoe OH 44699,??? (the address in the links ala Barney) and I predict it will be returned to you as undeliverable. Go on. Try!

THAT is why I referred to it as the “FORMER Nature Preserve!??? Apparently the Native American Indian Resource Center still exists – at a new address. But mail to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve is returned. I do not know if or where they moved over the past several years that I have been out of touch. My holiday greetings addressed to Hawk Hollow Nature Preserve, Tippecanoe OH 44699, were returned 2 or so YEARS AGO stamped by the United States Postal Service as “NO SUCH ADDRESS.??? I urge you – send them a letter addressed the way it is listed in the two links you post, Barn, and you will get that letter returned, providing the return address is readable. 


Now, Intelligent Readers: just multiply that error of Rose’s, compounded by Barnaby’s fact-fiddling-folly, times nearly every accusation they post, and you will have the real picture revealed: Their likely legally actionable jigsaw of nonsensical high jinks.

But my, hasn’t it been entertaining for you!


By the way,the big girl word Rose meant to use was “prima facie??? – but please, don’t judge her spelling at first glance.
          (That was a joke, Rose.)   (Wink)