Author Topic: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?  (Read 83838 times)

Offline lostcherokee

  • Posts: 79
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2007, 03:55:05 am »
Buffaloheart,

Historical documents are one thing but documents on the internet is another you can make anything up you want to one the internet.Even though the documents are fron the Great Erine Flecthers office,that still doesnt say much when its on the internet.Incase you are wondering BH i do live in ky not from here ,but i do live in ky and have for some time now,And i do not put much faith in anything flechter does or say's....

Vice-Chair of the Native American Heritage Commission,
The commission wasnt created untill 1996,and was just created to make NDN's in ky happy or should i say
to make the great state of kentucky feel better. As far as beign appointed  by definition only all you had to do was send in a resume of sorts explain how you would help the commission and all that ,if you was the only one from the area it was youres.


BW you said


  If a group springs up, so what?  As long as they don't do anything illegal, who cares?
I care and hopefully you do and if you you should. Thinking like that is why there is so many problems with our culture and everybody elses culture. even the ones that know there culture and history you have to keep in check from time to time .to make sure When you have tribes that pop up  you really have to watch and learn what is going on for most for there info. is from the internetor from unconfirmed oral history..



weheli please post links
i would like see what else harold has posted
kentucky is good for towns and roads having 3 and 4 names im not saying harold doesnt know his history about viper but its the first i have heard of it and family that i have living in that area for many many years and its the fisrt they heard or it.
much more to say but i will save for another time


lost cherokee
« Last Edit: March 27, 2007, 04:43:51 am by lostcherokee »

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2007, 04:00:21 am »
BH,
I'm not questioning whether you're NDN or not, and yes, federal recognition has little to do with that.

Buffalo writes:

I never insinuated that this discussion was about me, or implied that the SCN was Federally recognized.   

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2007, 04:27:21 am »
Buffaloheart,
Historical documents are one thing but documents on the internet is another you can make anything up you want to one the internet.Even though the documents are fron the Great Erine Flecthers office,that still doesnt say much when its on the internet.Incase you are wondering BH i do live in ky not from here ,but i do live in ky and have for some time now,And i do not put much faith in anything flechter does or say's....

Vice-Chair of the Native American Heritage Commission,
The commission wasnt created untill 1996,and was just created to make NDN's in ky happy or should i say
to make the great state of kentucky feel better. As far as beign appointed  by definition only all you had to do was send in a resume of sorts explain how you would help the commission and all that ,if you was the only one from the area it was youres.


BH  you said


  If a group springs up, so what?  As long as they don't do anything illegal, who cares?
I care and hopefully you do and if you you should. Thinking like that is why there is so many problems with our culture and everybody elses culture. even the ones that know there culture and history you have to keep in check from time to time .to make sure When you have tribes that pop up  you really have to watch and learn what is going on for most for there info. is from the internetor from unconfirmed oral history..

Buffalo Heart writes:

I did not say these things. You have your wires crossed with someone else that posted. 

However, The late Governor John Y. Brown's letter of 1893 recognizing the Southern Cherokee Nation can be found in the state archives.  Additionally, Kentucky State Representative Meeks and Dr. Tankersly, Piqua Shawnee and  professor of Native American Studies for Northern Kentucky University, are also members of the Commision (KNAHC). They were not appointed or selected based on "Hey you criteria". Also a legislative task force has recently been formed to study Native American issues within the State of Kentucky. The KNAHC will have two members on the the task force.   

Offline lostcherokee

  • Posts: 79
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2007, 04:38:33 am »
sorry about that buffaloheart ment to say bw instaed of bh on the second part of the letter
 and the first of the leeter was for you . i was not saying it was from you.

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2007, 05:14:25 am »
It's a matter of mocking government structures and misleading people.  For instance, if I set up something I called the North Florida Traffic Court and, with a bunch of my extended family, adjudicated traffic cases, it would be wrong.  I would be pretending to have a governmental status I don't have.  Likewise, one who claims to be a tribal office is claiming a governmental status and position.

I'm not a lawyer and this isn't legal advice.  This is just my understanding of the difference between a tribe and some other kind of cultural group.
[/quote]

The Southern Cherokee Nation is not Mocking the host Government of Kentucky.  We were an Indian tribe with a flag and constitution, prior to our arrival to Kentucky. When Principle Chief "Over the Hill" Martin brought the Southern Cherokee nation back to Kentucky from Indian territory he immediately notified then Governor John Y. Brown that they had moved within the confines and juristiction of the State of Kentucky. In turn, the Governor welcomed us and recognized us as an Indian tribe and even offered further assistance. Since that time in 1893,  we have maintained our government and continued to burn our sacred fire. The Southern Cherokee Nation also stages a yearly Green Corn Ceremony and has stayed active within the local community of Henderson, Kentucky. We have not dceived anyone as to who we are; we are who we say we are!

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2007, 05:20:43 am »
sorry about that buffaloheart ment to say bw instaed of bh on the second part of the letter
 and the first of the leeter was for you . i was not saying it was from you.

BH writes:

No problem LostCherokee, I just thought it needed to be clarified....wado!

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2007, 12:28:12 pm »
It's not an issue of mocking state governments--it's an issue of mocking tribal governments.

And I didn't say the SCNK are doing that--I genuinely don't know.  My response was to BW's assertion that "tribes" that spring up overnight do no harm.

You say you have your government structures still.  I'd like to hear about that.  Have you elected leaders all these years?  What kind of authority did they have in day-to-day life?  If elections and authority were destroyed at some point (which they were even for the CNO and EBCI)--how were they reconstructed?


Offline lostcherokee

  • Posts: 79
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2007, 01:46:57 am »
NO it is not the cherokee nation of kentucky

Maybe  from yester years long forgotting

Viper is in the Eastern  part of the state

 The  newly forming nation is in Western ky
 about 6 hour drive apart

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2007, 02:02:57 am »
You say you have your government structures still.  I'd like to hear about that.  Have you elected leaders all these years?  What kind of authority did they have in day-to-day life?  If elections and authority were destroyed at some point (which they were even for the CNO and EBCI)--how were they reconstructed?
[/quote]

Buffalo writes:

Traditional use of the title 'Chief' is an honor restricted to those leaders of Native American tribes who have received the title through tribal selection or inheritance. Our Chiefs have been empowered primarily through inheritance http://www.southerncherokeenation.net/chiefs.htm .  Most of our important decisions are by a consensus of the Council of Elders with Chief Manfox having the final say.  Chief Manfox is free to make administrative decisions in order to conduct the various operations and details of the SCN.  These day to day decisions are just too numerous to list.  However, here is a news letter update concerning a very important tribal function that exemplifies the decision making process of the SCN.

Update 9-4-2006

I am pleased to give the following update on our current tribal affairs to all members of The Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky. On 9-2-2006 your tribal government met in council to review and sign our updated constitution and sign our Letter of Intent to Petition for Federal Acknowledgment to the BIA. In attendance was Chief Manfox and the entire tribal government and council and the signing of these historical documents were witnessed by many tribal members who came to view this historic event and the celebrations was like another Greencorn! After the signing, the pipe was passed and the ashes were shared, and it was a good day. Our documents were also blessed, and members went to our sacred fire to ask the creator to bless and guide our actions and on this peaceful night the smoke carried our prayers high. Our documents were then wrapped in doe skin and returned to the Tribal Judge for submission and recording. Our next scheduled council meeting will be on 10-28-2006. Stay tuned for future updates and announcements.

May the Creator bless each and every one in The Southern Cherokee Nation of Kentucky

Wado

Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2007, 02:47:01 am »
Your chiefs are chosen by inheritance?

I trust you know that is really against the grain for Cherokee people, since long before contact when chiefs could be made overnight, and they could lose power overnight, too, at the whim of the villages they "chiefed."  And, of course, once the CN in the 1800s committed to a constitutional government, more U.S. style elections for a national principle chief were the norm. 

Is monarchy established in the constitution you mentioned, as well?

And you mentioned recent examples of governance--was there day to day governance of this sort since your ancestors are said to have split off from CNO?

Thanks for answering these questions.  I'm genuinely curious.

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2007, 04:20:31 am »
Your chiefs are chosen by inheritance?

I trust you know that is really against the grain for Cherokee people, since long before contact when chiefs could be made overnight, and they could lose power overnight, too, at the whim of the villages they "chiefed."  And, of course, once the CN in the 1800s committed to a constitutional government, more U.S. style elections for a national principle chief were the norm. 

Is monarchy established in the constitution you mentioned, as well?

And you mentioned recent examples of governance--was there day to day governance of this sort since your ancestors are said to have split off from CNO?

Buffalo writes:

The SCN is not a Monarchy. This is a term traditionally reserved for rulers of small European countries where it was written into their constitution that the eldest heir would someday be King.  We do have an executive branch, legislative branch and judicial branch all of which are primarily comprised of our Elders. We also have seven Clan Mothers all of which are also Elders. The Elders play an important role within the SCN and continue to find their way into positions of responsibility and accountability. We have evolved differently from other contemporary Cherokee and I hope we do not pattern ourselves after them. We are more traditional, but admittedly not as traditional as our ancient ancestors, but we are comfortable with who we are. I did find a link that you might be interested in.

http://www.cherokeebyblood.com/cherwar.htm


Thanks for answering these questions.  I'm genuinely curious.

Offline lostcherokee

  • Posts: 79
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2007, 04:51:20 am »
Buffaloheart,

Most the time when i post i get right to the point it may sound at times i am hatefull or trying to be mean to the person ,but im not i just like getting right to the point.
Thank you with answering most questions  with definitions of the title or term,i think most people ejukated enough to know what the word means.

As far as the link you posted makes for good reading but most have already read it   straight from  Mooney and Mails
When someone or a site refers to regalia as custume justs turns me away from that person or site
since you are saying its a good site are you saying you put youre custome a few times a year and just play and act indian

You say you  are traditional but not  as traditional  as our ancestors let me ask you this  since you have it out there for the whole world to see..
Since when is it tradition to have a 8 inch concrete block in the sacred fire or is that a new tradition that im not aware of.................

Buffaloheart

  • Guest
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2007, 05:13:48 am »
And you mentioned recent examples of governance--was there day to day governance of this sort since your ancestors are said to have split off from CNO?
[/quote]

The Chiefs of the SCN have a history of interacting with the local community of Henderson, Kentucky. All interethnic interactions require strong communication skills and decision making by leaders that will positively impact the dynamics of both groups. The main function of our Chiefs has been to look out for the health and welfare of the Cherokee people, and make decisions that are in the best interest of the SCN. If you scan our historical documents you will see a few more examples of positive interactions with the community of Henderson, Kentucky. If you would like more dramatic examples of decisions made by the Chiefs of the SCN please contact Chief Manfox:

manfox@henderson.net

PS- We did not split from the CNO in the sense that we left on a voluntary basis. We were burned out and our people murdered by the Pin Cherokee. Chief “Over the Hill??? Martin made the decision to Kentucky to ensure the survival of the SCN.

Offline lostcherokee

  • Posts: 79
Re: Southern Cherokee Nation of KY?
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2007, 05:22:56 am »


The Chiefs of the SCN have a history of interacting with the local community of Henderson, Kentucky. All interethnic interactions require strong communication skills and decision making by leaders that will positively impact the dynamics of both groups. The main function of our Chiefs has been to look out for the health and welfare of the Cherokee people, and make decisions that are in the best interest of the SCN. If you scan our historical documents you will see a few more examples of positive interactions with the community of Henderson, Kentucky. If you would like more dramatic examples of decisions made by the Chiefs of the SCN please contact Chief Manfox:


Since as you can see above you are big on referring to documents
can you show me any documents from the past ten years for positive interactions other than the  supossed recent ones from the GREAT Ernie Flecther