Pablo Russell

[raven]

It seems that J.J. has not been deeply involved with native families, nor has been to a lot of pow wows, with the comment about the gossip.
When I call relatives the first half hr is nothing but gossip, who's doing what to who, better than the soap operas.

J.J. I respect your dedication as a fire tender, I know that is a hard and humbling job.
I am not here to attack you but to tell you what I have seen with real elders.
Yes it does cost money to travel, however it should not be requested for any ceremony.
To give an example, I know an elder that speaks at the U.N. He is one of many that represents the native people here in our country.
He is not a wealthy man by no means, to cover his traveling expenses it is through family, tribe and from his sun dance family.
Another elder that I know  that is a well respected medicine man, he has been instrumental in bringing back the cherokee language to the schools in N.C.
He travels through the school system teaching the language and tradtional songs.  Yet he also does not request monies for his travel expenses.
The difference here is how the money is obtained.
Is it through family and tribe or is it from outsiders?

Another difference is that our medicine people here in the states do not travel around doing lectures nor seminars.  They are not self appointed medicine people, they are recognized by their tribe and people as one. They don't go to the people, the people go to them.

What is sad here J.J. is that you appear to be a good humbled person that is being taken in by someone that even their own tribe and family does not support what they are doing. This in itself should be a red flag to you that something isn't right.
Your intent is good, but your judge of character isn't.

[J.J.Toepfer]

Dear Thomas,
I thank you very much for your kind words.
I will smudge and pray for the guidance of the creator.
It is an honour for me, that you have adressed your words to me and if you like , I would like to
share some of the articles with you, that I have written about native spirituality .
Thank you JJ

[J.J.Toepfer]

Dear Raven,

thank you very much for your kind concerns about
me.

I really hope with an open heart and the help of the creator to do the right thing in the future.

Your words will be part of my path.

Thank you JJ

[J.J.Toepfer]

Raven,
the same I wrote to Thomas, if you feel like it,
I will send you some of my written articles.
JJ

[J.J.Toepfer]

Dear Annika,
I will continue to support many projects in my close
neighborhood and in the world.
I my function as a free lancing journalist I have
supported the Tibetian Freedom Movement, the
greenpeace work for saving the rainforrest and the
preservation of the northamerican culture.
I believe, if we all do our share, mankind will be able to change the present direction towards
destroying mother earth.
In respect for all people I remain
JJ

[vikinglady]

J.J. , I really do think you have the best intentions and that you´re a wellmeaning good hearted person. Unfortunately, those are the persons the frauds usually target. I have been manipulated by exploiters myself when I was new to all this. Without enough information, it is extremely hard to know what is true and not true.

I was just thinking, we organise lecture tours with Native people once or twice each year and due to the success last year, we will continue to extend them to the rest of Europe. Would you be interested in hosting one of our Native friends next time?

If you are, please let me know and I´d be glad to ? keep you updated. ?

Annika

[yellowthunder_bolt]

'Syio J.J.

I would be interested in reading some of your written articles. Wado . Please post them through a personal email on this site to yellow_thunder. I'm sure my friend on this site would like to read some excerpts from your writings also. One can get to know one by listening to thier thoughts if writen from the heart hey?

                                    Wado Thomas

[J.J.Toepfer]

Dear Users of this forum,
first of all I would like to thank you for your kind words and I would like to share something with you:
This morning, as I was driving to work, I saw a big Hawk on the roadside, who had caught a rabbit and
he was having a feast, when I passed him.
These thoughts have arised through this incident.

I would like to say, that I have never been asked from any native person for money, neither from
Pablo or any other person, that I have invited to Europe.
When we invite somebody , it is our choice and not
a wish from the person we invite.
In Wintertime , when people in the reserve are
in trouble, nobody will call for help, but I still ask my friends to donate money , so the elders have
something to eat and some wood  for fire, because
I know the situation in the reserve.
In my believe , as being white , as having ancestors
who have destroyed many native cultures, I feel
that we have to do something to make up for the past and to help out , to save mother earth for
our coming generations with the help of native
spirituality.
It is hard, that money is sometimes the tool for
helping.
I thank you ones again for listening to my words.
JJ

[J.J.Toepfer]

Dear friends,dear Thomas,Raven  and Annika,

since I am not a member of this, I cannot send
the email directly to you, so I post some of my
thoughts in the forum.
One day a dream took place in summer 1994:

I was standing at the ocean overlooking a quiet and beautiful blue sea. As time passed by, the spirit of the sea rised in front of me as a light and started talking. It said: Listen to me; I need you to help me out at this point in time. I have a problem with the human beings. They are not behaving in a good way towards me. They are polluting the water, they are killing my beloved animals, they are stealing all my treasures and they simply have no respect for my creation. I want you to do something about that. If nothing will change, I will show you now, what I can do. So the spirit put me in a shield of light to protect me and said:

' The first thing I can do, is, to rise the waters' and the spirit started to create a big storm and huge waves, that flooded everything and the waters of the ocean covered the land.

Than it said:

' The second thing I can do, is, to dry the oceans' and the spirit started to dry the oceans and all that was left was a thick saltcrust, which was blown across the land by a big storm.

Then it said:

' The third thing I can do, is, to create twisters in the sea' and the sea started to create twisters, that would pull everything into the ocean.

Finally it said:

' The fourth thing I can do, is, to send all the creatures of the ocean to get after mankind ' and so all the creatures and spirits came out of the sea and went after the people.

After all this scenario the spirit send me in my lightshield into the universe to look at mother earth from there and the spirit said:

              'and now I will show you, what will happen, when we are in peace' and I was allowed to see that there was light coming out of all the oceans, big cascades of light, that were traveling towards the sun and it was a very beautiful peaceful picture of harmony all around the planet.

The spirit brought me back to the quiet beautiful blue sea, where I started and asked me to begin my work. So I started in my dream to collect shells and stones that belong to the ocean, I talked to people to have respect for the creation and slowly I saw the light coming out of the ocean. At that time a man came and took one of the shells to walk away with it and I ran after him, because it was disturbing the recovery of peace and light. As I approached him and asked for the shell, he answered me: ' I need the shell for my wife, otherwise she will leave me'.

I told him right away, to make up his mind, whether he wants to disturb the healing of the creation for that reason or help out in bringing back the peace and he decided to give the shell back and the healing continued.
That was the end of my dream.

The following day I walked around and thought, that it was an intense dream, but I did not know, whether I should do something now in the real world.

I still felt a big desire to do something, so I decided to travel to the Baltic Sea to have a pipe ceremony, with the pipe, that I received from Morris.

I did the ceremony in a very humble way, asking the to sea accept me as one human being, trying to present mankind, showing respect for the creation.

At the end I made a boat from the things I found at the beach and I put my smudge bowl, an abalone shell, on it, together with tobacco and sage and some other offerings.
It swam away towards the sea and it was a beautiful day, with clear blue skies, calm water and the beauty of mother earth, listening to my prayers.

Maybe this dream will help to change things for the better.
This dream I share with you, because I love mother earth and gods creation.

[Guest]

I had a dream like that once, made me stop using LSD...

[Stefan Kobler]

Hi there
I have been reading what you have been writing about Pablo Russell twice now. So even though I'm still pretty young and don't know too much about all the different Native American ways I would like to say a few thing here. Please forgive me, my english writing is not the best, hope you can figure it out.smile
First I like to say that I think to have a page as this one is a pretty good idea. Since there are for example many sweats in Europe that are run by people that have been reading a few books about natives or have been to some seminares and run sweats all of a sudden without any rights at all. And I can understand that many natives are very unhappy to see this happen like that. I just hope that whoever gets on a page like that will be talked about on facts and the truth.
As for what I read about Pablo: It was never his vision to go to Scandinavia and I don't know who said ... if not something terrible is going to happen, but I know it wasn't Pablos doing. I guess this started the whole thing on that page here.
I can see that Pablo has his owen difficulties and shortcomings and I know that he is aware of them too. Just the way we all have. I haven't met the perfekt humen beeing yet. and I sort of dout I ever will at least not in this lifetime. I'm a pretty critical person myself and I don't follow anybody blindly and will always do make my owen choises in life if right or wrong.
I don't know how often I heard Morris Crow and Pablo say don't put us up on a ( I believe they called it ) pedestal ( don't look up to us ). And I could see how uncomfortable it made them feel if some people did anyway. I know how shy Pablo gets when he has to talke in front of a group of people and how nervous he gets because of it.
I heard him say many times : I can't speak for the Native American people and I'm not a spokesperson for the blood tribe. But I can talke about from what I know about my peoples way of life and culure from long ago and today. And he can say if he doesn't know the answer to a qustion I don't know or I'm a blood you need to talke to a lakota or whatever tribe if you want to know that.
In his lectures he is talking about common knowledge of his people and not about secret, sacred cermonies.
There are no levels of spirituallity and no such thing as: the more sweats you go to and the more seminares you go to the more spirital you get.
He always tells the people in Europe you never going to become a Native American so stick to and learn about your owen roots.
I haven't read anything about Pablo beeing a Medicenman yet, but I guess it must be written somwhere. Well I have never heard him say "I'm a medicenman". And he has no clou what people write about him. He doesn't have a PC and he doesn't speak danish or german or spain or whatever. Also that web pace. com. was not Pablos idea. It was more ment for the people that are interested to find out what is happening. He might has seen it once or twice quickly because sombody showed it to him.
He doesn't ask for money eather. He gets envited to go to different people and to different places. And those that envite him pay for the ticked and try to give him some money along as a gift. I haven't seen him counting it at the end of a day and I don't see him driving a nice car and live in a great house.
And I'm sure that non of those that envite him are doing it for any personel gain eather.
You know if I organise a sweat here when Pablo comes and people call me because they want to come, they ask "donation well how much would be apropriet", then I might say you know I have to pay for the wood and part of a airplane ticked and it would really be nice to give him something along too if possible so whatever comes from your heart and they still ask me "ok. from my heart but how much would be apropriet" ? you know it is really pretty diffcult.
But there maight be a better way to deal with all of that and maybe Pablo needs to show more interesst in what people write about himself.
As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take home for there time and lectures.
As for what some of you get to hear about Pablo from Alberta and the reserves there, you all seem to have a pretty good understanding on how it goes with gossip, smile. So I guess there is not much more to say about that If something it makes me pretty sad. There is a saying back home : you clean up your owen doorsteps first.
I'm pretty much aware that some might allready have a more or less sarcastic respond ready as they read this, so be it I'm not planing on going to defend myself eather.

                     take care
                        Stefan

[vikinglady]

As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take home for there time and lectures.
                        

Hi Stefan. It´s easy - I never host Natives doing ceremonies in Europe or offering spiritual teachings.
The guys I host talk about their cultures and/or the abuse of "Native spirituality" or other issues that Natives of today face.  Once the flightticket is covered for, most of them give the rest of the money to our project for the children in Albuquerque.

Stefan - maybe people should start showing more respect for Pablo? It sounds like he doesn´t have a clue what all those guys are doing to him. There are websites up promoting ceremonies with him asking people to send cheques. It looks really, really bad for him and people don´t care about  that or about telling lies when they promote him?? Very sad!!  

As for what my friends in Alberta say - they are deeply concerned about their sacred ways being sold in Europe. Sorry, but considering that just being "gossip" makes me very sad too...

And for the rest - I think it is better that Natives on this board explain their opinions since I´d rather not speak on their behalf. Thanks for the chat and oh yes - my offer stands: if any of you would like to host our Native guests, please let me know!

Annika

[vikinglady]

Oh, forgot  Stefan - since you´re a  non-Native Blackfoot sundancer and since you´re leading sweats and Sundances all over Europe for money (according to the several sites) I am getting a bit confused here regarding your text about Pablo.

If Pablo is such a nice, traditional guy he must think it is awful that his own adopted brother (according to the text) is selling ceremonies??!

Annika

[Ulrike Deichsel]

whatever tribe if you want to know that.
In his lectures he is talking about common knowledge of his people and not about secret, sacred cermonies.
There are no levels of spirituallity and no such thing as: the more sweats you go to and the more seminares you go to the more spirital you get.
He always tells the people in Europe you never going to become a Native American so stick to and learn about your owen roots.
I haven't read anything about Pablo beeing a Medicenman yet, but I guess it must be written somwhere. Well I have never heard him say "I'm a medicenman". And he has no clou what people write about him. He doesn't have a PC and he doesn't speak danish or german or spain or whatever. Also that web pace. com. was not Pablos idea. It was more ment for the people that are interested to find out what is happening. He might has seen it once or twice quickly because sombody showed it to him.
He doesn't ask for money eather. He gets envited to go to different people and to different places. And those that envite him pay for the ticked and try to give him some money along as a gift. I haven't seen him counting it at the end of a day and I don't see him driving a nice car and live in a great house.
And I'm sure that non of those that envite him are doing it for any personel gain eather.
You know if I organise a sweat here when Pablo comes and people call me because they want to come, they ask "donation well how much would be apropriet", then I might say you know I have to pay for the wood and part of a airplane ticked and it would really be nice to give him something along too if possible so whatever comes from your heart and they still ask me "ok. from my heart but how much would be apropriet" ? you know it is really pretty diffcult.
But there maight be a better way to deal with all of that and maybe Pablo needs to show more interesst in what people write about himself.
As you are organising for some Natives too Annika, how are you dealing with all of that ? I asume you try to give them somthing along as well to take h
Hi,
Stefan this in an answer from Ulrike staying in
Düsseldorf Germany-
this whole thing here was started by a request of mine-see what is written at the beginning-the question with this hidden identity! Side 1 Pablo-
I have been linked at this site by searching something about him and his work in the net-I will tell you now the whole story by outing myself and I hope you will read it! I am sitting here in Düsseldorf
and we have 1:44-so what-
First i didn´t know what the word fraud meant-I am not very perfect in English-so I had a look at the dictionary-then I became afraid-I thought that my feeling about Pablo was wrong because I read about him in this archive here-I didn´t trust myself
again-I was afraid-perhaps I could be wrong again-
I just ran in an "open knife"in former times-but the moment I decided to ask here(with all my respect for Pablo as you can read) I didn´t realize that it was my personal "film" which made me ask-and I never imagined to have this sort of resonance-

O.K.Now: Dear people of this forum I want to tell you something of my own personal feelings as a human beeing who we all are-if we are black or white or red or yellow: No one has the right to judge about another one-dear "debbieredbear" who ever you are-who gave you the right to tell such things as you did, about Pablos private life???
Do you know anything about his inner feelings? Do you know anything about the women around him and their stories??? Isn´t it their own decision
what they do and what they don´t do which each other?Do you have a contract with yellow press??Another question: Who gave you the allowness to put my question in this forum? I mailed for private because the moment I decided to mail, I hadn´t to discuss anything about Pablo! I only wanted to find my own point of view with the whole informations I could get. I have been very upset because of this-not because I have anything to hide-but because you didn´t wait for my allowness-and who told you to hide my identity??
You wanted to protect me in a nice way-i know this-o.k. but did you ask me if I want it or if I need it?
All this disqualifies you to the deeply ground in my eyes!You don´t respect other peoples feelings! Are you the creator?? Have you to decide
who is wrong and who is wright?
A forum can be a point to discuss different points of view-this is not always soft-o.k. but it never hurts
someone and it would never be unfair!

Same way you treat Pablo here I feel treated now too! Is this enough now-or do we need more to stop? Then please come over-or phone me:
Germany: 40474 Düsseldorf-Gottfried-Kellerstr.49
                Phone 0049-211-5805493
Mobile: 0174-9605946

www.praxis-fuer-energetische-psychotherapie.de

Whoever wants to contact me please do it now-I would prefer a personal contact by direct speech!!
And for information: I decided now to participate at
Pablos Medicine-Whell Seminar Munich March 2006
And I am very happy to meet him there again!

Always count on me from now on whoever wants to
with all my love
Ulrike Deichsel

[raven]

Ulrike. this is in response to your posting. I would like to address somethings that you posted.
Let's begin with putting aside any money issues and discuss the personal issue that you brought up. If Mr. Russell is a spiritual man, there is a conduct in which he should carry himself. To be involved with women, that is not a spiritual man. The conduct is continued in their personal life. They do not allow themselves to be put in a position that may comprimise their reputation. This is not a matter of who was right or wrong in a relationship, it is the fact that relationships took place. I am not saying that spiritual people do not have relationships, what I am saying it is how they handle them and their personal life.
I believe that the attack on Debbie was disrespectful on your part. She respected you enough to not allow people to know who you were, that is much more than what you gave to her. And by what you wrote, you were questioning Mr. Russells character, for did you not say that there was something that made you feel uncomfortable.? Do not blame her for the doubt you felt.
I went on your web site, but since I do not read german I will wait for my husband to go on it and read what it says. I had preferred to send this to your personally, but did not know your email.
I pray that you find what it is you are seeking. We have a saying here, watch what you wish for, in other words sometimes when we get what we asked for it is not always a good thing.