Author Topic: Munay-ki  (Read 55132 times)

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #15 on: July 06, 2012, 12:39:52 pm »
1.In reading these posts I have to admit I was a little dissapointed because it seems nobody here who is calling out fraud has attended a munay-ki workshop.

2. Also Huascar isn't viewed as an Archangel but an Archtype. A commenter mentioned 7 archangels. There are 7 ARCHTYPES not archangels. There is a big difference.

3. Frauds will be found in all spiritual arenas unfortunately, Munay-ki or other.

4. Love and Light!

Hello, I added numbers to your post to make it clearer what I was responding to.

1. So you expect every last person who criticizes con men to first get taken by con men? Seriously?
Don't need to eat dirt to know you don't like the taste...

2. Huascar was neither an archangel nor archetype, but an Incan emperor. You got taken and lied to.

3. You admit Munay Ki is a fraud, but still defend it?

4. That's a New Age slogan, not Native.

Also, I'm sure the experience was "magical" for you. My niece said the same thing about Disneyland. Doesn't mean it's true nor anything to base your spiritual beliefs on. Just means it was entertaining. Which I'm sure it was for you. They told you what you wished was true, rather than actually true.

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #16 on: July 06, 2012, 06:53:51 pm »
Hi Kathryn, I'm not sure exactly what you mean by your Siberian comment. The main mentioning of Siberian within Munay-ki is only to inform that the word "shaman" derived from the Tungu language via Russia. As far as who I am. I'm here seeking enlightenment. I will read up more regarding what this forum is all about. I performed some searches on Munay-ki and noticed a fraud thread yesterday so I became curious. I'm quite interested in all points of view regarding the topic and practice of Shamanism. Fraud is a matter to not be taken lightly. Within the spiritual realms there is unfortunately a lot of fraud. This is why I was very cautious when selecting the workshop I took. I only took it via word of mouth from a friend who works with the Peruvian mesa and experienced first hand her remarkable healing abilities and insight. If you have any good books to recommend on the topic I would love to read up on other forms. Thanks!

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2012, 07:51:19 pm »
Hi educatedindian, in your comment: 1. So you expect every last person who criticizes con men to first get taken by con men? Seriously?
Don't need to eat dirt to know you don't like the taste...

Surely I don't, And just for the record I'm not here attacking anyone so there is no need to get so biting and defensive... I simply found it interesting that it seems if people were dissatisfied or felt they were swindled or displeased with results of munay-ki workshops they would definitely be the first complaining about it and wanting to get the word out as much as possible so that others may avoid the group. I surely would have. Upon reading the forum threads for the new users I see your goals. At any rate thank you for your points of view. In regards with keeping within love and light. Does it really matter if it's native or a new way of being? Why does it upset you so much to hear a kind wish? If native ways are truly to pass judgement and slap people for any form of rising above the ego and loving one another than who wants to keep with the native way? I'm sorry I suppose this forum is definitely not my spiritual cup of tea but all you spiritual natives out there I do honor you and respect your lineage. Peace!

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2012, 09:14:49 pm »
And just for the record I'm not here attacking anyone so there is no need to get so biting and defensive...

Selling fake Indigenous "teachings" and ceremonies is an attack on Indigenous cultural survival. By defending those frauds you are participating in the attack on Indigenous peoples and cultures.

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I simply found it interesting that it seems if people were dissatisfied or felt they were swindled or displeased with results of munay-ki workshops they would definitely be the first complaining about it and wanting to get the word out as much as possible so that others may avoid the group. I surely would have.
[emphasis added]

Again, our concern here isn't about consumer satisfaction, it's about cultural preservation and protecting people from being defrauded. Selling fake ceremonies is fraud. Selling real ceremonies violates cultural protocols and also contributes to cultural genocide. Neither is acceptable.

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Upon reading the forum threads for the new users I see your goals. At any rate thank you for your points of view.

Thank you for taking the time to read the forum.

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In regards with keeping within love and light. Does it really matter if it's native or a new way of being? Why does it upset you so much to hear a kind wish?

The point is you are trying to misrepresent Newage platitudes as Indigenous. IMHO, the problem isn't the sentiment, it's the hypocrisy of saying "love" while doing something distinctly unloving, with claiming to be kind while doing something unkind: that is, promoting misinformation about Indigenous peoples which leads to cultural genocide.

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If native ways are truly to pass judgement and slap people for any form of rising above the ego and loving one another than who wants to keep with the native way? I'm sorry I suppose this forum is definitely not my spiritual cup of tea but all you spiritual natives out there I do honor you and respect your lineage. Peace!

Newagers like to say "judgement" is bad. I believe this is actually a cold, calculating way of avoiding taking responsibility for their actions, and of trying to demonize the people who hold them accountable for their offenses. Every time an appropriator makes the choice to twist information and misrepresent Indigenous ways they are making a judgement - a judgement that the voices and values of Indigenous people don't matter. No one "slapped" you. People are trying to educate you that you have been conned into participating in something harmful. Pay to pray scams, selling fake traditions, and encouraging individualistic ceremonies outside the checks and balances of traditional community does not teach people to "rise above the ego"; rather, that sort of approach is totally ego-driven. The way to let go of individual ego is to listen in a humble way to the consensus of the community, and to put the wishes of the traditional community ahead of the individual desire for "enlightenment" at the expense of others.

Thank you for realizing that this is not a place for learning how to be a newage shameon.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 12:30:03 am by Kathryn »

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 11:49:38 pm »
Got a series of messages from Amber Austin from Canada. She wants it made very clear she has nothing to do with Munay Ki and never did. Someone else held a ceremony on her property long ago. That's it. We have to wonder how many of these claimed "teachers" on their site are false or sloppy claims.

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 Here is my story . . . I went to all the info sites on Munay Ki I could find, and even their other sites like 4 winds and a few others that were actually posted on your site (I can send it all to you if you'd like to see what I have been doing all day). Anyways, all of their email addresses on every site bounced back except for one. So I wrote a letter saying the same things I said to you and also saying I have no idea why I am involved in their business. I tried phoning their #s as on their websites and they all rang through to a voice recording and then went to a fast busy circuit signal. I even signed up for their newsletter and then I un-subscribed and in the comments section said my speel again and to remove my name from their site, where ever it may be. Then I signed up for their "sign up for courses" and almost immediately received a form letter with 2 phone numbers one of them different from the earlier number I tried and low and behold I to through and was at least able to leave a message asking them to remove my name and that If it was on their site it was fraudulently put there. OMG! WhT an ordeal!!! It certainly looks like the entire Munay Ki sites have been shut down - so that's good.
Thanks again so very much for removing my name, I hope nothing further comes up in the search engines. It's good to know folks like you exist - there is so much falseness in the world today, it's a real shame how people are so self serving and dishonour one another and the beautiful traditions our ancestors gave the world.

Offline Sparks

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2017, 12:59:32 am »
From the thread about Alberto Villoldo (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1393.0):

Nicholas Breeze Wood said this in Issue 59 of Sacred Hoop Magazine about his Munay-Ki videos, "Despite the fairly frequent use of the word ‘shamanism’ in the film, I can’t really say the teachings come over as very shamanic in a classical-anthropological sense; they seem to be more in the line of energetic healing techniques, and if I am honest I got a bit bored half-way through, as this kind of ‘homogenised new-age-tinged spiritual teaching’ is not my cup of tea."

Offline educatedindian

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2019, 01:27:19 pm »
http://magick-instinct.blogspot.com/2014/04/money-key.html
....One of the great current modes of neo-shamanism, more and more New Age and decultured, is the Munay Ki . This one is the creation of an anthropologist who, rich of an experiment of more than 25 years, would have been initiated to the Andean energy techniques by the qeros. Here, we see once again that the university curriculum is only used to build a marketing image, which will then allow to tell big lies . The Munay ki is a creation of the Cuban Alberto Villoldo , which is inspired much by the Quechua nomenclature forged by Juan Nuñez del Prado. A brief overview suffices to underline the lack of seriousness of this method .

      " The Munay-Ki comes from a Quechua word that means" I love you "or" Be what you are, Love and Light . "This is the kind of honeyed vocabulary that an Indian will never use. the syntax is false If we mean "I love you" in Quechua, the language of the qeros, we will not say munay-ki but munakuyki, so we only have to evoke a curious mixture between the Chinese ki and the Andean munay, to make up for the initial linguistic blunder

    Alberto Villoldo knows so little of Quechua that he attributes the revelation of the munay-ki to men whom he describes as Laïk'a . no place in the Andes, where the term is more pejorative. A laïk'ais a wizard, a practitioner of black magic. I once asked the old maestro kallawaya Don Victor Bustillos when did we become a laïk'a and where was the border? His answer was bright: "  You become a laïk'a from the moment when the wallet of your patient interests you more than his health  ". The semantic error of Alberto Villoldo is perhaps only an unconscious confession.

      Inconceivable for an Indian, the Munay-ki is a paying initiation, diffused on a market, accessible to all those who can offer it and without other selective mode that the money. It expresses to perfection the world of tomorrow promised by the children of Aquarius, that of monetized spirituality and immaculate smiles, predatory white teeth and values ??inversely proportional to colonialist appropriations . Initiation (the word karpay, used in this context, actually means 'to water') at munay-ki has nine levels. Let's take one at random, to see what it consists of and what it contains q'ero. This is level three, entitled Rite of Harmony .

      "It is the transmission of the seven Archetypes inside the Chakras. First you receive the serpent in your first chakra; the jaguar, the hummingbird and the eagle (or condor) respectively in the following three chakras. Then you receive three archangels, Huascar Inca - the guardian of the lower world or unconsciousness in your fifth chakra, Quetzalcóatl (the feathered serpent) - the guardian of the middle world or consciousness in the sixth chakra and Pachakuti (guardian of the time to come) - the protector of the higher world or supra consciousness in your seventh chakra. Archetypes are transmitted as seeds in your chakras. You are asked to wake them up and make them grow by meditations with the fire element. These meditations help you clean your dirty chakras so that they can release their original light and thus allow you to acquire a body of rainbow light. "

    It is the same soup that Westerners eat and mix everything from India to the Andes. Of course, Alberto Villoldo prevents any objection. If we're talking about chakras, it's because the Incas came from India 30,000 years ago and they knew yoga. From India. It must be anthropologist's humor. But let us not question an Indian q'ero on the chakras, because we may be disappointed, especially if he has not been briefed before. He will surely understand the word in Quechua terms, since the chakra is for him the cultivable land allotted to him: " The chakra? Yes, yes, she's fine thank you. I sowed dad just yesterday . "

      We learn, from the pen of the over-researched scientist, that And it mixes without any harm or indigestion with the Mesoamerican god Quetzalcoatl, whose qeros have never heard of course. Until now, we have not known the archangel condition of the feathered serpent, and his tourist journeys to the pantheon of the qeros.

      Those who spent a lot of time with the Indians and slept in their chozas rather than at the hotel, shared their work and not just the ceremonies, took the trouble to learn to stammer their tongues a little, painted the crosses of their dead and cried with them, learn, stunned and a little stunned by so much novelty, what the initiates of the munay-ki know of qeros. Thus, the Pachacuti, which they believed to be the "revolution of time," would be no more than an archangel, too! Definitely , Causachun hatun munay ki !

      From now on, and thanks to the diligence of the promoters of the munay ki, they walk everywhere in our cities and our countryside, laikas, pampamisayoj, altomisayoj and other Western kuraqakuyoj, totally ignorant of the cultural contents to which these titles refer. Imagine suddenly appearing formations making you in a few days Buddhist vidyadharas, Hindu mahatmas or archbishops, or even saints or Christian messiahs. It's a bit the same here, and it's a mark of disrespect for the cultures involved. We then say that we love them. In this way perhaps? Does Munay Ki only look like shamanism? Watch this videoto make sure of it. We are convinced. It is basically only a kind of reiki revamped.

      From new products endlessly appear on the world spiritual market, culturally uprooted - such as the improbable "Andean medicine wheel" (or Inca) - which only result in standardizing ancestral practices and weakening their meaning, strength and methods. One wonders what comes to do a native North American terminology in an Andean context. A "shamanism" does not need another tradition when it is complete. And that of the Andes is. There are "shamanisms" without drums, no animal seeking power or no medicine wheel. They are perfect as well. But right now and because of the Western look, all end up looking alike. It seems to be an obsessive goal to standardize, reduce everything to our image, to the same reading grid. This causes a considerable loss of soul.

      If there is an Andean energy discipline, let us be certain that it escapes us, so much our gaze is disoriented, pushed to the wrong choices. We are manipulated, guided by the black magic of marketing and his smiling publicity. We are sensitive and submissive, this is the disastrous state of our consumerist mentality, focused on the easy, the globalized spirituality, its market and its careers, its products and its industry of the well-being, its bourgeois comfort and its infantile whims. , its tendency to reduce everything to technical and consumable kit format. This is very bad news. Our lack of intuition and clarity are terrible.


AMBIENCE:

    "The local guide has an Andean look with long hair held by a ribbon with geometric patterns, a vest made of traditional Andean fabric, cowboy boots, a bandana around the neck and a cloth bag, a little like the chuspa in which the runas carry their coke, they put their tourist paraphernalia: khuya , mesa and often a flute to play Indian music for tourists.For a few years, his pace changes: more and more he wears a Foreign brand mountain equipment that he buys at the smuggling market or buys from tourists. He knows how to gauge at a  glance the fortune of his client by identifying the origin of his clothes. For him, the competition is tough because it can be replaced without difficulty: now, even the supervisor of the ruins, a taxi driver or a bus driver, knows the tripartite concept of space in kay pasha, ukhu pasha and hanaq pasha , that of the three ages of the world in munay (love), llank'ay (work) and yachay(know). Most young Cubans know everything about the Pachamama, mountain gods and the hierarchy of the Andean Church. Sometimes even they can improvise an offering to Earth for a few dollars. This knowledge is very useful for them to flirt with tourists in the nightclubs that swarm around the Place d'Armes. The gringas hunter (  Cazador de gringas, named after Mario Guevara's novel Cuzquénien) is identified as brichero , of the English bridge : he is looking for a bridge to move to the United States and Europe. The neo-incitement is a seductive trait and some young Americans bring in their suitcase a resurrected Inca.

    "These local guides call on the people of the indigenous communities for stewardship: taking care of the horses that transport tourists, setting up tents or carrying backpacks, these servants are sometimes recruited from the old haciendas of the guide's parents. local and these servants are sometimes recruited from the old haciendas of the guide's parents. local and they have with him reports of servility that tourists interpret as an almost mystical communion in Andean thought. The tourist maintains relations with these "Indian service" that he believes to be complicity. The guides also engage Indians to perform rituals that appear as authentic: we have seen the role played by the Q'ero in mystical tourism as descendants of the Incas. They are often put to work by the agencies and some of them went to California for shamanic workshops. Back in their communities, they continue to make their offerings to the deities according to the custom, even if they lend themselves to the sometimes fanciful requests of the tourists " ( Jacques Galinier and Antoinette Molinié,  op cit, pp. 267-268)

Offline Sparks

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2019, 04:53:30 pm »
From the thread about Alberto Villoldo (http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=1393.0):

Because of thread mergings the quote is now to be found at this forum URL:

http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=615.msg13654#msg13654

Offline Sparks

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Re: Munay-ki
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2019, 05:41:00 pm »
http://magick-instinct.blogspot.com/2014/04/money-key.html

From the thread about Juan Núñez del Prado & Sons. Same applies here in the Munay-ki thread:

A translation of Colnot's article is worth posting. Bolding is mine.

See also the Alberto Villoldo thread: http://www.newagefraud.org/smf/index.php?topic=615.0