antiunilateral43, African-American genealogy (tangent from Santee of So. Carolina?)

[loudcrow]

Naketer Vann
United States Census, 1910
Name:    Naketer Vann
Event Type:    Census
Event Year:    1910
Event Place:    Topsail, Pender, North Carolina, United States
Gender:    Male
Age:    11
Marital Status:    Single
Race:    Black
Race (Original):    Black
Relationship to Head of Household:    Son
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):    Son
Birth Year (Estimated):    1899
Birthplace:    North Carolina
Father's Birthplace:    North Carolina
Mother's Birthplace:    North Carolina
Household    Role    Gender    Age    Birthplace
Washington Vann    Head    M    58    North Carolina
Mary Vann    Wife    F    33    North Carolina
Arhie Vann    Daughter    F    15    North Carolina
Lillie Vann    Daughter    F    13    North Carolina
Naketer Vann    Son    M    11    North Carolina
Isabella Vann    Daughter    F    10    North Carolina
Clara Vann    Daughter    F    7    North Carolina
Mazura Vann    Daughter    F    4    North Carolina
Robert Vann    Son    M    3    North Carolina
Mary L Vann    Daughter    F    0    North Carolina
Clara Ennett    Mother-in-law    F    74    North Carolina
District: 77 , Sheet Number and Letter: 19A , Household ID: 358 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: M1283 , GS Film number: 1375139 , Digital Folder Number: 004449914 , Image Number: 00188

Parents are listed as Black.

[antiunilateral43]

Thank you for accomplishing what I could never do in the 20 years or so I've been researching this .now I can put to rest the ridiculous idea that my family was descended from native peoples...thank you. But I see u didn't add that one census record where my grandparents Adam and Rachel were listed as mulatto.  U left that one out tho..
I can finally put all this stuff to rest..I never did really go into detail as to what exactly the nature of those traumas were tho...if you don't mind I'd like to print up this tree and then close out my profile here

Thank you for your time
And I never not once said
"I'm not happy being black"
I'd rather be anything but that"

Maybe my grandmother calling herself Santee when I was a boy was a manifestation of her own ignorance and self hatred??  I'm willing to believe that as well...and as for me clinnging to things ...you're kinda falling short ..I wasn't made aware ofy trauma until 2008. But have been drumming and singing since I was 19.

I think some of you have good intent but others ? Just speak out the sides of their necks

I'm happy just the way I was made an am comfortable in my own skin and can walk away from healing the cycles in my own family without having to believe in what was left ..as far as traditions and ways go
All I gotta do is decide not to and go live my life ..
I didn't have to care at all
But I did.

[antiunilateral43]

Then my grandmother was simply a drunk and a liar
I can give this Sundance skirt and wiyaka away and everything else I've accumulated over the past couple of weeks to go up on the hill...in may

Scottish and welsh you say ??

Interesting ". Very interesting indeed "

[loudcrow]

Adam Singleton
United States Census, 1910
Name:    Adam Singleton
Event Type:    Census
Event Year:    1910
Event Place:    Privateer, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender:    Male
Age:    60
Marital Status:    Married
Race:    Mulatto
Race (Original):    Mulatto
Relationship to Head of Household:    Head
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):    Head
Birth Year (Estimated):    1850
Birthplace:    South Carolina
Father's Birthplace:    South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace:    South Carolina


Rachel Singleton
United States Census, 1910
Name:    Rachel Singleton
Event Type:    Census
Event Year:    1910
Event Place:    Privateer, Sumter, South Carolina, United States
Gender:    Female
Age:    45
Marital Status:    Married
Race:    Mulatto
Race (Original):    Mulatto
Relationship to Head of Household:    Wife
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):    Wife
Birth Year (Estimated):    1865
Birthplace:    South Carolina
Father's Birthplace:    South Carolina
Mother's Birthplace:    South Carolina

Household    Role    Gender    Age    Birthplace
Adam Singleton    Head    M    60    South Carolina
Rachel Singleton    Wife    F    45    South Carolina
Willis Singleton    Son    M    8    South Carolina
Sammie L Singleton    Son    M    6    South Carolina
Adam Singleton    Son    M    18    South Carolina
Carrie Singleton    Daughter    F    16    South Carolina
Luella Singleton    Daughter    F    12    South Carolina
Hattie Singleton    Daughter    F    8    South Carolina
District: 108 , Sheet Number and Letter: 6B , Household ID: 106 , Affiliate Name: The U.S. National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) , Affiliate Publication Number: M1283 , GS Film number: 1375478 , Digital Folder Number: 004449783 , Image Number: 00565

[loudcrow]

These are the instructions given to the 1910 Census takers regarding race:

1910 Census:

108. Column 6. Color or race.?Write "W" for white; "B" for black; "Mu" for mulatto; "Ch" for Chinese; "Jp" for Japanese; "In" for Indian. For all persons not falling within one of these classes, write "Ot" (for other), and write on the left-hand margin of the schedule the race of the person so indicated.

109. For census purposes, the term "black" (B) includes all persons who are evidently full-blooded negroes, while the term "mulatto" (Mu) includes all other persons having some proportion or perceptible trace of negro blood.

We cannot totally discount their being any Native ancestry. I would have to go much farther back in the family tree in order to say "yes" or "no" definitively.

[antiunilateral43]

according to my maternal grandmother lueva ruth Vann   originally there had been Nineteen children between Adam and Rachel and that eight of them had died because of an epidemic that swept the southeastern united states.. some were lost to "fever" and others were stillborn  as to the true nature of their deaths im uncertain  ..i9 do know that "Luella" had made a vow to Rachel....that she would take care of Rachel in her old age and adam and Rachel actually followed Luella from SC to NC where unfortunately they both outlived their daughter Luella who died at about the age of 35......Im willing to admit the possibility that it was hearsay that we were at al;l related to any native peoples...im willing to believe it...because I know for a fact that she used to drink some really heavy liquor....there is something tho that makes me a bit uncomfortable and its not so much digging up my tree   (that was a good thing  thnks Loudcrow")  its the use of the terms.... Black And white" and these generic made up terms for people who have any kind of racial mixture.....ive talked about whats going on here to a friend who happens to be a Dakota   elder and she continues to proudly respond to me on facebook in the "D"   question is "can any of us really ever know"?    so many say   "aint never was no Dakotas in the east" and some say   "Yeah we were there "   both sides having and making very valid points......like the mention of winter counts"   but I believe that individual may have been talking about   L/T   Not D/N   im not saying im a specialist in this field but I have been picking up a lot....

as far as my own personal life goes.....I simply spoke to tribal offices one day in porcupine and had long conversations with spiritual leaders out that way and even took the time out to sit down and to write them letters   ...all agreed that some sacred rites would help me to heal    and mend cycles in my family....."itll help you" they said   

"tunkashina hears and answers all prayer "    I don't wanna be no medicine man   " I just wanna heal     and pls don't write me back anything that's degrading because I said it pls 

thanks

[antiunilateral43]

when I made mention that6 I had called tribal offices out in porcupine... it wasn't for the purpose of genealogical research .
it was with the question  "what does a person do in the case of this that and a third?"   it had to do with me seeking spiritual help and guidance......for the things that have been plaguing me most of my life .....I was looking for the ceremony or ceremonies " that might help me out ....based on what my grandmother told me and feeling there might be a connection between this tribe my grandmother mentioned and the ones just across the river ,,,,,that we were somehow some watered down racially mixed version of the peoples out west......I can see how  ceremony could be killed off in the east.....the religion and way is   a bottle of Heineken and a fat bag o smoke.....but me ???  I wanted better than that....so an elder from a porcupine suggested I start reading up on hehaka Sapa....and I did.....and I was shocked and amazed by what I had learned....being from an eastern faith formerly.....it fell short for me ....I realized that the best model for a man was in black elk and realized there was no need for me to follow some faith from over seas  ,,,,when I had an example to follow right here in my own back yard ...the more I read the more I began to realize that these men were "real men"  what we call back home in nyc " A Mans MAn".....I figure it was also a way for me to figure out how to "walk the way I talk "  and be able to back it up  and keeping it real.......I also found that  all those things that those elders were granted were actually designed to help "reset" peoples minds and hearts for people whos cases are identical to mine.......   Trauma alters brain wave patterns and abnormalizes them....hence that disconnected feeling whenever I go somewhere in nature  and feeling like im floating all over and not feeling grounded and connected to ina maka   ...I began to believe strongly that those sacred rites that black elk was talking about would  reconnect me to the those energies in the earth.......no magic wand ...no magic potion....nothing spooky or mysterious   .....just plain old     "good orderly direction"    but so far what im getting here is if my blood quantum aint enough  or if I aint got no blood at all    im basically screwed  and unable to put into effect what was left by the beloved elder....how will I ever know if I don't get a chance to find out......????????

what if its true???   and there is a thing called OHM 'S in the earth   and the very electricity in our own bodies plays a part in that wellness and feeling connected again ????     according to a reliable source   its that very same "deeply embedded genetic depression" that's keeping us from getting along and seeing eye to eye to begin with.......
I don't wanna understand any of it in theory .... I wanna live it   ....blood or no.....  u just might be that life line or that oxygen tank I need to save my own soul    ...if you don't mind me saying so candidly......im about winning and overcoming that beast in me that's robbed me of all the good in my life.........yeah everybody gotta sob story and all that...
but you aint grow up in the Bronx in the seventies eighties and nineties.......it was pure hell   and a lot of us didn't make it out.....    any soul will fight and seek and try  over and over again until its free from all the fetters and whatever chains it....

I only have the one life  and its given to me on loan by the creator and one day its gonna be called back and its my responsibility to take that gift back in the best condition possible.........

what did you do when your brother asked for help????

[antiunilateral43]

Hello earth7    I wanted to extend thankls and gratitude to you for locating my families history...im not at all dissatisfied with the results.......I guess if its not too much trouble to ask  ,,,  I had a question about the morgan davis in your post  My ancestor according to you that came from wales ?   or Scotland ?   or both ???   can I begin a search from there and start working my way backwards to Europe ???     im even more curious now and even went as far as to look up books on heraldry to try to locate the davis family somewhere in history to see if there was some kind of coat of arms or family crest that could help guid my search here ......     Where would I fiind or begin to jresearch records on morgan davis ??

[Diana]

@ antiunilateral43, I thought you had said that you had grown up in South Carolina....??? But here you just wrote "yeah everybody gotta sob story and all that...but you aint grow up in the Bronx in the seventies eighties and nineties.......it was pure hell   and a lot of us didn't make it out" I could be wrong but you've been writing about South Carolina and I had the impression that you were born and raised by your Grandmother in your families home state of South Carolina??? Just wondering?

Lim lemtsh,

Diana

[earthw7]

I have to tell you that Morgan Davis owned the plantation who was from Wales and his name would be carried by the slaves he owned,
Whether or not you have his blood is hard to say but the names to do go back to that planatation.
You can just type in the name into ancestry.com and find answers today,
As far as your journey you called Pine Ridge Right! and they told you about their lives right,  When life is hard
one must look inside themselves not to another culture, All our ceremonies do is help a person find that center,
but finding oneselves is about facing that inner pain and dealing with it.
I will tell what i tell everyone, its about you and you dont need anyone or anything to find that

[Defend the Sacred]

the peoples out west......I can see ....I realized that the best model for a man was in black elk and realized there was no need for me to follow some faith from over seas  ,,,,when I had an example to follow right here in my own back yard ...the more I read the more I began to realize that these men were "real men"  what we call back home in nyc " A Mans MAn".....
...
...I began to believe strongly that those sacred rites that black elk was talking about would  reconnect me to the those energies in the earth.......

... Which Black Elk are you referring to? Are you talking about what people from the Black Elks' community have to say? Or are you referring what you read in the book Black Elk Speaks?

If it's the latter... that book was written by a white man. It's not representative of the actual traditions. It is not respected.

I only have the one life  and its given to me on loan by the creator

I can't speak for the L/D/N peoples. But in terms of all your ancestors, not everyone believed that. That's fine if that's your personal belief, but not all the ancestors believed that and not all the living cultures believe that way now.

I had a question about the morgan davis in your post  My ancestor according to you that came from wales ?   or Scotland ?   or both ???   can I begin a search from there and start working my way backwards to Europe ???     im even more curious now and even went as far as to look up books on heraldry to try to locate the davis family somewhere in history to see if there was some kind of coat of arms or family crest that could help guid my search here ......     

To find a family crest or heraldry you first have to find which branch of the family you're from, and whether any of them were granted coats of arms. Not all families have them, and the Welsh aren't generally as into family symbolism as the Scots and Irish are. Those internet sites that claim to have a coat of arms for every name are not accurate; they are set up for selling merchandise. So they will take the individual heraldry for someone you may not even be related to and try and sell it to you. You have to know the exact ancestors, where they lived and when.

The name Davis is Welsh in origin. I also have Davis ancestors. But the Celtic Nations that are now considered part of the "United Kindom (UK)" are all rather small and close together. People went back and forth all the time between what is now considered Wales, England, Scotland, Ireland, and all the smaller islands scattered around those countries. So an ancestor may be listed on an American immigration form as any of those nationalities, while if you can go back farther you will find they only lived there for a little while before coming to America.  There are a lot of Welsh and Irish people who are inaccurately recorded as English for that reason - they went to England looking for work, then eventually got on a boat to America.

[antiunilateral43]

Lim limtsch  my family migrated from the south to NYC in the mid to late forties.
And that's where I came along ..again I am the result of an interracial coupling ...and not once upon entering this forum did I ever once claim to be an Indian...or said that I even wanted to be (responding to another post here) I've only ever expressed a desire to learn traditions and ways ..  You said thank you in a language I'm familiar with.  I used to live out at flathead in arlee.  I was actually there on and off for a year
It was a good life when I lived out near polson and flathead lake.   Loved it there. Stars so clear at night you could almost touch them. There was so many

[antiunilateral43]

Lol. So a group of Germans do it and they're cool"
But if I do it I'm a wannabe ..? Just did some more reading here ...so pls pardon my line of questioning here..
A man travels to Germany and sees the age resurrected in Europe and the natives are a "study" and what this man Sees provokes thought .....but my mind and heart are moved by what I've learned and I'm condemned by the same people that I'm learning from. Yes I'm a mixture of european. African and quite possibly native (still a mystery) and I'm still getting that same "vibe" that nobody really wants anything to do with African Americans period ...but a full blooded Masai warrior from Kenya can Sundance in south Dakota  but an African american will catch hell for trying..pay me no mind here. But I'm not afraid to talk about what may be the underlying issue here ....anybody coming out of the southeast gets blasted for loving native culture and spirituality by people way on the other side of the country ..who don't really know how the other half is living ..my sons mother left flathead to visit my grandparents in new York one time and never went back

Rites of passage will save the young is all I have to say..
In africa they scratch and initiate ...they are made to feel Luke young men and women ..and given a sense of self ..u can sit and waste time talking about whatever   but if there's someone really sincere that comes along with love for what's been learned ? Why not let me learn em. ? What are u so afraid of ??  What do u have to lose ? A lot of its dying and there are real people.  True people. Like me who would live fight and die to preserve and protect it. Don't believe me??
Let's take the test and try me if you think I'm lying
  Its really all I gotta say right now

[antiunilateral43]

I know my posts been reported but I was "set afire" by some more of what I read on here a little while ago..I can do my best to not allow emotion to be my better in this discussion.
Sincere apologies to the group and the admin.

I was thinking over a few theories I had heard about how census was taken and why..interesting points to observe

#1 at certain points in census history a person was either blaxk or white in most cases..and then later on you see mullatto. ...which brings us to the one drop theory stating that anyone who had a drop. Would be considered black or African american to be more proper ... Think about the few natives that did exist with one black parent and one native parent ....why did most of them always claim black? U know it and I know it too...
Imagine : so many hundreds and thousands and maybe more were relocated to some pretty distant places far away from the southeast. The Cherokee I'm sure weren't the only ones...census taker rolls around and asks me my race ..and it just so happens that said census taker is a united states soldier ....(bare with me here please).  Which half do I claim or tell him about ??  If I say I'm native ..chances are I'll be shipped out to oklahoma somewhere and removed from my own home .....if I tell census taker that I'm black or negro it creates a whole new set of problems ...." What do I do what do I say??  Do I tell the government that the population of natives has increased because of intermixing ?? And if our numbers are increased because of it ..will we be perceived as threat by the united states ?? What will the repercussions be should I choose one or the other ?? I don't think there's any one that can rule out the possibility that this may have been the case for most .....all I'm asking for is that you be willing to consider the possibilities and not be so quick to say " this person couldnt have possibly been native because the census clearly states they were mullatto or negro.. This is not my trying to find a way into anything.  Its actually quite the opposite ...as I've come to want to know the truth myself ...it begs the question :  " is that even remotely possible at all"?
As far as an " Indian princess ". In my family personally. There has never been such a person and my grandmother never made that statement about us being descended from anything like royalty ..she just said that her grandmother was an impoverished dirt poor woman

[Defend the Sacred]

...and not once upon entering this forum did I ever once claim to be an Indian...or said that I even wanted to be (responding to another post here) I've only ever expressed a desire to learn traditions and ways .. 

The consensus on this forum, and among our Elders, is that a tribe's ways are only meant for the members of that tribe.