Frauds in the UK

[Barnaby_McEwan]

A couple of years ago he was featured on British TV as a Healer, and the result of the programme was to make him look very silly. Job done, I would say.

I saw it too. I think it made him look like a dangerous quack who blamed a desperate patient's eventual death from cancer on her supposed lack of commitment to his treatment. This because she was too weak to drive a couple of hundred miles to his house.

[Jill]

Hello, barnaby,

Oh yes, I had forgotten that part. That was bad.

Cheers, Jill

[TimberlineWarrior]

Having been away and off line, I'm back!
I was browsing Google today (KEYWORD:Sweat Lodge UK) and I discovered that there are now a lot more cashing in. Prices vary from £30($60) to £50($100).
One name thats come up on several is Mike Chirobokow and his wife Tilly Chirobokow. Interesting claims re Mike:
Mike Chirobokow (Lodge Leader) - Na' To' Win' Niso (Sacred Warrior Coming Down) is a pipe carrier and for over 20 years has lived, studied and learned amongst various North American Indian tribes primarily the Cree and the Blackfoot Indians. Connecting and working with the Blackfoot tribe he became the first non-native to become a Sundance leader.
Equally interesting is Eve Gray Wolf,
Eve Gray Wolf runs traditional Canadian sweat Lodges in the traditional way of her own people the Huron. Eve Gray Wolf was brought up in the tradition of the Huron and is also a qualified Seneca Wolf Clan teacher. Eve has run many sweat lodges in Canada, the USA and the UK.

I didn't know the Seneca even did sweats!
Here is a list of the most prominent sites I found:


Alternative green lifestyle, drum, Dance, shamanic, sweat lodge, survival skills summer activities camps festivals.
http://www.sacred-arts.co.uk/sweat_lodges.htm

http://www.campscene-directory.co.uk/

http://www.windspirit.co.uk/sweatlodge/sweatlodge.htm

http://www.thecontinuum.org.uk/Site/sweat%20lodge%20lake%20district%20uk.html

http://www.sacred-earth-camps.co.uk/

http://www.sweat-lodge.co.uk/

http://www.energiesinaction.co.uk/windspirit.htm

More info will follow as I can get any.

^. .^

[crazyeagle]

Hi TW - are you in Warminster?..you sound familiar.

[greenleaf]

"Aziz is also associated with Ross Heaven....they both hold the same "lineage??? in Haitian Vodou, meaning that both are initiated by the same fraud!

Heaven has turned against his vodou initiator some years back but still claims to be a valid initiate of Haitian Vodou! All this makes little sense to me! Some people don't wanna wake up...they like to remain blind and ignorant! "

Hello! Wow this forum is amazing, thanks for all the info folks, so Harner is not the real deal nor Heaven? I didn't know that, tho something made me think when I saw an article by Heaven in a pagan mag and he claimed that a tea of vervain chamomile and valerian would produce similar effects to Ayahuasca. Now I have no quals in herbalsim, but have a few books on herbs and even I know that there is nothing in these herbs that would produce the effects that Ayahuasca does. I even emailed him and asked him about it then he seemed to forget he had written that and said he meant they would be "entheogenic"..he tried to get out of it! I mean would you trust this bloke to take mind altering brews in the jungle with  if he doesn't even have expert knowledge of UK/European plants?

[crazyeagle]

Mike Chirobokow - I spoke to this person's wife(the phone number was on the web site) who when I asked if I could speak to the man in person several times either avoided answering me or said he wasnt there(not true)...I questioned her about his selling of ceremony - her answer was that they didnt, they only charged for the "special stones" used for the sweats...uh huh..yeah right! I have a mind someday to take a little trip to Wales -pretty part of the country... 

Roy Littlesun - he is a dangerous person - not just deluded but dangerous to women. I believe we have a thread somewhere in the archives here on him. Barnaby - would I be correct in saying that?

[TimberlineWarrior]

To add to these, I've had the name Bear Cloud come my way a few times recently. All I know so far he seems connected to a group in Wiltshire, possibly in the Swindon area. Claims to be NA but thats all I know at the moment.
From what I've heard he's connected to a group, mainly females, and they do The Medicine Wheel and sweats. The lady who was talking to me about this guy was surprised when I said that she shouldn't attend when in the moon cycle. She had no idea what I was on about, but did admit she had attended when she was at that time.
What the group is I haven't found out yet, or if they charge. He might even be genuine. But my intuition says not.

^. .^

[Barnaby_McEwan]

Mike Chirobokow...

Roy Littlesun...

There are several threads about both of these people. As to whether Littlesun/Steevensz is dangerous to women, I guess he's no more or less dangerous than any other tinpot fantasist/cult leader.

[non-NDN]

I know this is a really old topic, but I still needed to post something about these two (Ross Heaven, and Peter Aziz... the latter claiming all sorts of nonsense but both initiated by a priestess of Haitian Vodou)

Both Kanzo'ed (kanzo is the term for the two week long initiation process) under Mambo Racine Sans Bout, a very VERY controversial Mambo with a very large online following. She kinda sells initiations and creates untold amounts of drama wherever she goes... However, a very great deal in Vodou is placed on the -properness- of the ceremonies for initiation; if they arent carried out to the letter then they arent considered 'valid'. Search for her online and enjoy what ya find.

Many a charge has been leveled at Racine that her initiations are not proper, and thus not valid.

Ross Heaven separated himself from her organization (the roots without end society) after several cataclysmic arguments over his publishing Vodou Shaman... in which She claims he printed initiatory secrets (which of course she cannot/will not further define with any example of what it is he was not supposed to have written about, even to other initiates who by all rights should have the same knowledge of the initiatory chambers)

Not to leave him fully clean, noone knows if he went to another priest or priestess and re-did his initiations... and he too is one who vocally makes known that Racine, in his opinion, is no real Mambo and thus is inherently unable to create viable initiates. (Kinda well, if your mother was a b*tch than what does that make you? scenario) Basically if he claims that his initiator cant actually initiate, than he himself admits he's not an actual initiate.

That said, nothing Ross has printed is 'secret' or really gains him anything beyond standard authors royalties... and the information in his book isnt ever stated "This is the way things are done"; to his credit he admits its "inspired by" Vodou as there really is NO solitary form of our faith. Its not the best book, but it by itself doesnt really fall into a cultural appropriation standpoint. Certainly not the worst thing to have ever been printed about Vodou; worse cultural offenses are found in the Lynn Andrews ilk. While Ross names Haitian spirits/Lwa, these names are common knowledge and nothing secret... plus anyone with any interest in learning what these spirits like only really has to keep their ears open; no secrets there, either.

AZIZ, however... well; I dont know just how loudly I can agree that the man is dangerous and shouldnt be allowed to teach. It shouldnt come as any surprise, either, that he's one of Racine's prized initiates.

(I should also point out that while Im not -yet- an initiate, I am in no way affilated with any of the folks Ive mentioned here... I found this listing under a fraud search and in no way mean any of my comments to be construed as having an opinion on Native/First Nation/et al beliefs or customs which I have no qualifications whatsoever to practice or comment on)

[SQuid]

I see that Ross Heaven's name is listed in this thread under the category of "FRAUDS!" The thread mistakenly leaves one wondering if Ross Heaven is to be considered a "UK Fraud." When reading the other thread which began by using his name and is now retitled " Ayahuasca Tourism and Ethics" in the Research Needed category, Al Carroll, Administrator and Moderator clearly states that Ross Heaven is NOT a Fraud. As a matter of clarity and respect, it would seem logical to remove Ross Heaven's name from the "Frauds in the UK" thread altogether. At the very minimum, there should be a header on each page of that thread which clarifies that Educated Indian and several other members have stated they did not find Ross Heaven to be a Fraud and are now even soliciting his extensive expertise on the issue of "Tourism and Ethics." Sure doesn't look good to have him stranded, one foot stuck in "Frauds" and one foot stuck in a renamed "Research Needed" thread all while asking the man to take on the heroic task of  educating us all about "Ayahuasca Tourism and Ethics." I'd start first with the "ethics" of keeping him in both of those categories.

[TimberlineWarrior]

Hi all,
once again I was away, that together with my pc crashing and also being very ill has meant I'm not able to be in contact as much as I'd like.
I have been doing a little research and believe that the guy Bearcloud is this guy...
http://www.bearcloud.com/
Some of his words and 'teachings' are very familiar to words I heard from my source. That together with the research he has done into crop circles especially in West Kennet, which is very local and fits well into his operating area. His idea of Star Nation and Chameleon Project also seems to fit (http://www.chameleon-project.org/).
I haven't heard him mentioned lately, but one who I think was one of his students or at least connected to him has surfaced. All I know so far is that this lady is called Kate, passes herself as a spiritualist and healer and although 100% English says she was taught and trained by the Mohawk elders. When pressed about this she became very cagey, wouldn't give dates or durations but was keen to sell almost anything, from souvenier to reading.
This lady seems to be running sweats and holding ceremonies somewhere in the Wiltshire/Somerset area. I'll try to gather more but the people connected are being very cagey and secretive.

TW
ps, yes I used live in Warminster, but moved and still in the Wiltshire area myself.

[TimberlineWarrior]

I'm trying to do some more research into Bearcloud and Kate and in so doing found out that Mike Chirobokow is still coming to the UK and doing sweats..
http://www.windspirit.co.uk/sweatlodge/sweatlodge.htm
This will be happening at this event..
http://www.thehealingweekend.co.uk/index.html

^..^

[TimberlineWarrior]

Hello TW

I'm also in the UK (see my new member intro). Do you mind saying whereabouts you are?

Hi Barnaby,
I'm in Wiltshire and I think we met once at a pow wow near Shaftesbury.
Can you contact me please so I can discuss some info I have and how much is ethical to post here.

^. .^

[TimberlineWarrior]

A couple of years ago I heard of a man who runs special weekends near Glastonbury and actually met this man, Bill Harrison. He was a well known and respected healer and madium. When I met him he was very respectful of our culture and ceremonies. Sadly last year he committed suicide. This year a memorial event is being held;
http://www.thehealingweekend.co.uk/index.html
All looks ok. But I have a feeling that among the exhibitors the woman, Kate, who claims to be a Mohawk medicine woman and runs sweat lodges will be there. I have certainly seen a note that sweat lodges will be done over the weekend.

There is a name that it is about time it was posted here, Adrienne Gilbert. This woman has worked with Bearcloud and is one of the main organisers of the sweat lodges with Kate. She has been spoken to and it has been pointed out the feelings about people performing sweat lodges and 'doing' the medicine wheel and her responce was that she felt fully entitled to do so and basically didn't care that she was being regarded as stealing ceremony and ways. She actually mixes many different beliefs to come up with one that suits her, i.e. Native American, angels, tarot etc. She doesn't seem to have any connection to the web and no web site. But she lives near Chippenham, Wiltshire.

[TimberlineWarrior]

I'm seeking the location that Ms Gilbert and her friends could be holding their sweat lodges and so far using Sweat lodge Wiltshire or Sweat Lodge Somerset into Google I have come up with;
http://www.lowershawfarm.co.uk/events2009/aug-2009.html

Summer Stretch
– including Yoga, Massage, Shiatsu, Volleyball, Walking, and Singing... and almost anything stretchy that you fancy!
28 – 31 August • £156
This long Bank Holiday weekend is an opportunity to stretch, try new kinds of exercise, play games, have fun, and RELAX.

From yoga and massage in the hayloft, to volleyball in the front garden, table tennis in the barn, Circle Dance in the yard, a walk or run along the Ridgeway, a sauna in the willow dome sweat lodge, or a vocally-challenging sing-song round the campfire, there should be something for anyone and everyone of a positive and physically-active nature.

This is a very long weekend for a very active and very relaxing time!
________________________________________________________________________

http://www.sustainablehealth.co.uk/courses/sweat-lodge/

Courses >
Sweat Lodge/Prayer Ceremony
There will be a monthy ceremony around full moon, This will be a prayer, pipe, song, or sweat lodge ceremony. All the ceremonys are traditional. Please let us know in advance if you would like to take part. We ask £25 for the Sweat Lodge as this is required to cover the costs.

Duration: 6pm till late

Dates:

Cost: £35

Ref: SL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Booking Information:
You can book a place on this course by Paypal or cheque. We will then call you to arrange which particlar date you would like to attend.

Please complete and send a course application form when signing up for a course.

This one add a whole new meaning to Plastic, even taking your payments online LOL
_____________________________________________________________

Lots of info here.
http://www.centreforshamanicarts.co.uk/sweat.html
I note they don't actually mention Native American, but look at some of the contact names!!! Also they claim they don't charge, but... There is a charge for the hire of the venue, cost of wood and other materials. This is currently £10 for non-Lodge members.
______________________________________________________________

Then of course typing Sweat Lodge Glastonbury gets lots of results, typical being;

http://www.goddessconference.com/content/view/4/8/

TEMASCAL : SWEATLODGE          Women Only
With Tegwyn Hyndman
The Temascal or Sweatlodge is an old, old ritual, a ritual of rebirth. It is an invitation to partake in an elemental feast. Firstly we will light the fire together and then journey with drums, song, prayer and dance. Within the heart of the fire, stones are being heated, awakening them to the memory of their first life, the fire of conception. From the fire the hot stones will be brought into the lodge, which represents and is the Womb of Mother Earth, where they will meet with the water. In the lodge we will continue our songs and our prayers in this Womb at this time in this place of Avalon, calling for the manifestation of our dreams, calling our spirits, calling our will. We will open the door within to receive all the blessings from the Goddess and this Goddess Conference, give thanks for our life, calling for healing for ourselves, our beloveds, purifying mentally, physically and emotionally, generating a power, a vibration of woman and sending that love to the heart of Mother Earth, Father Sky and all our relations.

Please bring with you a sarong or light dress, a towel and all the food and water needed for the day. Also a small offering for the fire.

Tegwyn is a mother of three, a sacred singer, songwriter and experienced facilitator of women's circles and sweatlodges for the last 13 years. She walks as a Priestess of Avalon and a woman of the Red Path.

Venue: To be given in July
Time:  10.00am – 6.00pm
Fee : £50/$80/€65
______________________________________________________

All are possible sites, but the search continues  ;)

^. .^