NAFPS Forum

 :'(

I am also from the pre-computer generation. Being from a good family does not mean every thing that every member of that extended family does is going to be a good choice. I understand family loyalty. But when people go outside the community and sell ceremony and questionable cures to vulnerable people, that is a cause for concern, to everyone it touches.

Personally, I think it is irresponsible and potentially dangerous to give out unproven "cancer cures" on the Internet. The formula given is not Ojibwe. I am pretty certain it was created by a white woman, Rene Caisse. It is her formula for Essiac (she named it after herself, her name spelled backwards). While some of the herbs in the formula certainly have medicinal uses, and some of these herbs can be used to support the system, it is not a cancer cure. It is my understanding that Ms. Caisse falsely claimed to have learned the remedy from Natives because she felt it would have more credibility this way. So it's sad to see Natives believing something a white person made up.

http://www.cherryvalleyretreat.com/010~Welcome/CH-V-ObjibwayCancerCure.pdf

ETA: Cate Crow deleted a number of her posts, and this whole thing started as a tangent in another thread. Downthread is the link to the website where Cate promotes essiac as a cancer cure. Sorry for the lack of continuity.

this is another case of where a white person is tell us what is right for our people >:(

 :'(

Defend the Sacred?  Druids?  Labyrinth?

Quote from: earthw7 on August 19, 2014, 07:55:26 PM
this is another case of where a white person is tell us what is right for our people >:(

I agree.

I know a number of people, some of them Native, who have used this formula. It didn't cure any of them. The ones with breast cancer died. Laboratory tests show the herb formula you're promoting, Cate, can increase the growth of breast cancer cells.

Like many members of this board, I work with herbs. I am not someone who blindly promotes mainstream medicine. But I don't ignore scientific studies, either.  Cancer is a serious disease, and people should work with competent healers. Any herbs that are strong enough to be effective can have potential side effects and drug interactions. That's why people study for years to be herbalists. If a remedy is strong enough to heal, it's strong enough to harm if used incorrectly.

http://www.cancer.org/treatment/treatmentsandsideeffects/complementaryandalternativemedicine/herbsvitaminsandminerals/essiac-tea

"...most laboratory studies of Essiac have found it didn't work against cancer cells, and one reported that Flor Essence increased the growth of breast cancer cells. "

"Essiac may cause headache, nausea, diarrhea or constipation, vomiting, low blood sugar, liver damage, and kidney damage. Allergic rashes are possible. Rarely, serious allergic reactions have been reported.

"In addition, the potential interactions between Essiac and other drugs and herbs should be considered. Some of these combinations may be dangerous. Always tell your doctor and pharmacist about any herbs you are taking.

"Relying on this type of treatment alone and avoiding or delaying conventional medical care for cancer may have serious health consequences."

Which draoithe, from which culture, used labyrinths, Cate?

ETA: Cate has deleted her post where she said she taught about "druid labyrinths" at Cherry Valley.

Which Ojibwe elder is claiming this is their formula, and advising people to use it?

ETA: Cate Crow has deleted her post where she claimed that Rene Caisse's "essiac" formula came to Cate "direct from the lips of an Ojibwe Elder."

The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564

QuoteThe labyrinth was also found in North and South America. The new world natives regarded the labyrinth as a sacred path to the home of a sacred ancestor or the path to the ancestor himself.

Quote from: catecrow on August 19, 2014, 08:06:49 PM
That was a total attack. I don't teach new age workshops. I'm not employed by Cherry Valley. I know the owner of Cherry Valley. I have talked about the historical use of the labyrinth which goes back 4,000 years to the druids and ancient native cultures in North and South America in the past on her farm. I did it for free. Wow, you've been busy checking me out on the net. Have you figured out my background yet? Who my people are? What my community is? Do you know what I did for a living? Don't worry, I keep my spiritual life to myself and I'm not out there scamming anyone. I was a teacher of native history for over 30 years. My relations are Cree...how sad to find myself investigated like some kind of criminal.  Actually Kathryn, the formula I gave the owner of Cherry Valley came straight from the lips of an Ojibwe elder.

Cate the formula you provided is essiac http://www.ojibwatea.com/essiac_description.php

Did you know that not only is sheep sorrel and allergen but that it contains oxalic acid which is damaging to the kidneys?  Did you know that turkey rhubarb is very dangerous for people with colitis and ulcers? It is dangerous for women who are pregnant because it can increase menses.  It's dangerous for people with osteoporosis because of the oxalic acid.  Point being, it's dangerous.

If you will note in regard to Cherry Hill, I said that both Nora and you have taught/facilitated there.  I did not say that you, Cate Crow, charged money for teachings.  You came up when I was looking into Cherry Hill, nothing more than that.  Don't be so paranoid.

Now, can we please talk about why it is okay for Nora to promote inaccurate information about other cultures?

Oh and blood root is caustic.  Ingesting it can kill somebody.  It will also make a person test positive for opiates, something that here in the states can have drastic repercussions, from failing sobriety tests to getting removed from organ donor lists.

Quote from: Piff on August 19, 2014, 08:28:58 PM
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564

From the above link:

"The seven circuits represent the seven chakras or power centers of the body (root, sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, third-eye, crown). It is no coincidence that the labyrinth design is analogous to the concept of kundalini energy. Kundalini remains coiled like a serpant at the base of the spine until the time when it is awakened and rises through the metaphysical body, piercing each energy center or chakra in turn. Upon reaching the crown, the subject is said to have reached enlightenment."

Chakras are not NDN, or "druidic." Traditional South Asican cultures, for whom chakras and kundalini are part of their heritage, are very different from this sort of nuage, Western view. Nuagers usually try to push for "kundalini awakening" via methods that have caused psychotic episodes, and awakened latent bipolar or schizoid disorders. It's not something people outside those cultures should be dabbling in, and it has nothing to do with the Christian labyrinths found in Europe.

Quote
Labyrinth Teachings and Portal experience with Cate Crow

    August 18, 2012 · 1:00 PM
    Cherry Valley Retreat

Saturday August 18th 1:00pm to 4:00pm
Cate Crow conducts labyrinth and portal/vortex tours at the farm. She will teach you about the history and spiritual purpose of the labyrinth before you walk it yourself to discover it's power and secrets. She will then guide you to the sacred portals / vortexes on the property. These are powerful healing centers which are connected to all major spiritual sites around the world including Stonehenge, Macchu Pichu, Sedona Arizona and Egypt. Under one of most powerful portals on the property lies a crystal medicine wheel 75' below the ground. According to Nora WalksInSpirit, she also advises that the portal behind the barns is the largest in Canada.
Come and experience these energies for yourself at Cherry Valley Retreat.
By Donation

http://www.meetup.com/Soul-Growth/events/78153872/

QuoteI don't teach new age workshops. I'm not employed by Cherry Valley. I know the owner of Cherry Valley. I have talked about the historical use of the labyrinth which goes back 4,000 years to the druids and ancient native cultures in North and South America in the past on her farm. I did it for free.

Quote from: Piff on August 19, 2014, 08:28:58 PM
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm, by Cate Crow http://www.newspapers-online.com/tecumseth/?p=5564

Quote:

Archive
The return of the Labyrinth at the Cherry Valley Farm

October 5, 2013   ·   0 Comments

Prehistoric Labyrinths date back more than 4,000 years and have always been used in a spiritual manner. The Greeks and Romans used labyrinths for group ritual and private meditation. The labyrinth appeared on Cretan coins in 430 BC and by 1000 AD the labyrinth started to appear on church walls and floors.

In the medieval times, the labyrinth symbolized a path to God with the center being God and the one entrance symbolizing birth. Walking the path meant ascending towards salvation or enlightenment. During the Renaissance, labyrinths started appearing in the cathedrals of France and across Europe. They provided a symbolic journey to the Holy City of Jerusalem. Since many people could not afford to travel or make a pilgrimage to the holy land or to holy sites, the labyrinth provided a substitute for such travel. The labyrinth was always walked with prayers and devotions being said.

The labyrinth was also found in North and South America. The new world natives regarded the labyrinth as a sacred path to the home of a sacred ancestor or the path to the ancestor himself.

Many newly made labyrinths are reappearing today in churches, parks and hospital settings. They are used by many to help achieve a contemplative state and to meditate. Walking among the turnings one loses track of direction and of the outside world and thus quiets the mind. Some researchers say that going around in circles of the winding path may produce subtle neurological effects that facilitate deeper states of consciousness. British researchers indicate that the labyrinth may affect brain wave activity which increases mental clarity. For many people, the labyrinth is first and foremost a spiritual device, a place for finding deeper meaning in life, for spiritual renewal and transformation, for finding inner peace and for encountering the divine in whatever form they conceive of it.

The classical seven ring design connects the mind, body and soul to the Universe. The seven circuits represent the seven chakras or power centers of the body (root, sacral, solar plexus, heart, throat, third-eye, crown). It is no coincidence that the labyrinth design is analogous to the concept of kundalini energy. Kundalini remains coiled like a serpant at the base of the spine until the time when it is awakened and rises through the metaphysical body, piercing each energy center or chakra in turn. Upon reaching the crown, the subject is said to have reached enlightenment.

The labyrinth is often confused with a maze. A maze is a complex puzzle to be solved with many paths branching off and many directions to travel whereas a labyrinth has a single path which leads to the center. It is not designed to be difficult to navigate. It offers one choice, whether or not to walk a spiritual path.

The most basic metaphor for walking a labyrinth is that of Life's Journey. Walk the labyrinth while being mindful of your life. Envision your life's goal. Walk to the center and see what you learn. Before you go in, ask a question that you want an answer to. While you walk wait for the answer to come to you.

How can you tell if you have had a meaningful experience in a labyrinth? Often by the vivid dreams you have afterwards, strange sensations you feel in your body, insights or truths that have hit you between the eyes. All are manifestation of the energy contained in these ancient devices. Spiritual experiences are also very common within labyrinths. Walkers sometimes report quite intense mystical states including union with a divine force or spirit energies, communion with deceased relatives, or seeing animal messengers. Some manage to resolve longstanding problems or struggles. Labyrinths help people through major life transitions such as divorce or grief over the death of a loved one, trauma, abuse and illness. Walking the labyrinth helps release core fears, helps transform and rebalance while opening one up to the presence of the divine.




This could be very dangerous, especially for traumatized people.
You got any clue what are you forcing .... ?
Is it an experience, or it is more true to say it is an experiment, the results will come, sooner or later and the person cannot be sure if he / she can deal with it...


[/quote]

I'm going to start by apologizing for anything I said that was upsetting. It was never my intent to come in here and create anger. I came in to support a friend only. Her experience is very real. My spiritual beliefs are my own and I'm allowed to have them. I never claimed to follow traditional native teachings even if I have the utmost respect for them. I have a mix of Scottish, Irish and some of my relations are Cree who live in Manitoba and Ontario.

I've read a lot about Rene Caisse. She was from Bracebridge, Ontario. There are statues to her in that town. Rene was a nurse who had a patient in 1922. This woman told Rene she had breast cancer and was cured by the Ojibwa. She wrote down the recipe she was given to Rene. The formula is the same one I gave the owner of Cherry Valley. It is straight from the lips of an Ontario Ojibwa elder and I think that is obvious when you read that post carefully. I didn't write what was on the website, I simply e-mailed her the formula. And no, I'm not going to give his name after I saw my personal information bandied about in here. I never asked for that when I came in here. I will know better than to come on a chat site on the internet under my own name again. My fault. Lesson learned. For 50 years Rene fought the cancer industry who wanted to shut her down because she was actually curing people with herbs. She cured thousands of patients across Canada and the USA even JFK's personal physician. He wanted to go public with the formula but was threatened with jail if he did. Cancer was the #1 profit making disease in the industry...still is. I gave the formula to a friend of mine who was a doctor with stage 4 ovarian cancer. Her cancer marker went from 487 to 214 on the Essiac formula. When her oncologist asked her what she was doing, she told him. He approved. This was before she started conventional treatment. She is alive and well today and feels it really helped her. It has a long history of documented success. Chemo and radiation is harder on the body then anything else. Chemo is poison. I personally feel it kills more people then it cures. And no, I was not aware of the side effects of the herbs.

The facts I wrote on the labyrinth are all documented and can be found on different websites. Google Druid labyrinth, Native American labyrinth, Christian labyrinth, Roman labyrinth, Greek labyrinth and it all comes up. I know that chakras and kundalini energy have nothing to do with NDN or druid beliefs. That is one of the interpretations of the labyrinth design from Eastern religions. Thank you for informing me of the dangers. For the Christians, the 7 circuits are based on the 7 sacraments. No one has ever forced anyone to walk a labyrinth. They are used for quiet reflection today and spiritual insight. They are being built in Canada in hospitals, parks, mental institutions etc. because they are shown to help people. I found the labyrinth very helpful when dealing with my divorce, depression, anxiety and PTSD. I wouldn't recommend it or write about it if I didn't feel it helped others. I'm a retired teacher and I write for a local newspaper. I get assignments from the editor and I cover the story. I did the labyrinth and portal tours for free. If the owner wants to collect a donation to support her farm, that is up to her. She is an elderly lady and relies on the income to support herself. She is by no means rich, quite the opposite, and her farm is in desperate need of repair. I was never employed by her.

As for Nora's bio...it is what it is. That is her story. I'm not questioning it. I had my own NDE in 1999 and surprisingly saw Jesus. I wasn't a church goer at the time. I'm still not. I still feel my closest connection to God in nature. I said it was not for ME to question her. I believe her. I only wanted to support her. I think it is important to talk to the person who is being discussed. I would be required to do that for any news story.

I won't bother you again and I would really appreciate it if you stopped posting about me. I taught and I write local news articles. I'm a private person who is really quite shy and reserved. I'm not making a living on spiritual beliefs. I did a favor for the owner of Cherry ValIey about 4 times last summer. I no longer do that. I apologize again for losing my cool yesterday. Take Care.

I understand what you are saying but as a native woman
I have to stand up and stop the abuse of our cultural ways
They continue to be corrupted by non native who take our
medicine with out proper ways use them for profit, once a dollar amount is
put to anything spiritual it is not spiritual, I still cant understand why today
the non native has done everything against the native people steal our land our rights,
our way of life now they want to steal our spirituality. It is wrong!
The whites are so privileged that they think its ok because it is their life of steal others cultures.
So I am sorry to have to do this education but it is hard to teach people what is wrong and
what is right.