Author Topic: Kevin Dubrow, Nancy Heraty AKA Kevin Redbear, Desert Lizard White Owl Crone Woma  (Read 17935 times)

Interestingly, "Ninthoctave" is also a New Age practitioner, self-professed medium and mystic who follows around and pays other white mediums, psychics and "shamans." She goes by "Ninthoctave" and similar on her forums. See link below.


Advice: if you want your child to talk to you, bashing your child online is a sure way to have your desires fail miserably.




*edited to remove doxing
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 03:59:19 am by Smart Mule »

Offline Ninthoctave

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I’m not deleting anything I wrote.  And who is bashing who here? 

Offline Smart Mule

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Discover_the_Truth and Ninthoctave, this isn't the space for family spats. Please take your conversation to messages or I will put you both in time out for a week.

Thanks,

SM

Offline Smart Mule

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Discover_the_Truth, your mom may be involved with mysticism but the link you provided does not show any indication f being involved in shamanism or appropriation.

Interestingly, "Ninthoctave" is also a New Age practitioner, self-professed medium and mystic who follows around and pays other white mediums, psychics and "shamans." She goes by "Ninthoctave" and similar on her forums. See link below.


Advice: if you want your child to talk to you, bashing your child online is a sure way to have your desires fail miserably.




*edited to remove doxing

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Additionally, "Discover_the_Truth", etc (under your multiple accounts), as far as we know, your mother has not attempted to lie to us here, while you have registered with multiple accounts and tried to deceive people. You have also continued to call this harmful man, Dubrow, by his pretendian name.  This is very creepy.

I understand that you were severely traumatized, but you seem to be very into stirring up drama with his other former followers, and trying to get them to contact you, alternately damning then praising this abuser. So now we're not sure what your motives actually are in this.

Reading through all your posts again, realizing how many of these were written solely by you, it is worrisome that you seem to not really get it how harmful his sort of schtick is. The problem with Dubrow wasn't just that he, as an individual, "meant well" but did the pretendian guru trip badly. The problem is that no one should be doing what he did. He sounds like another James Ray - the guy who killed seekers with his pretendian "Vision Quests" and imitation sweat lodges.

Further research has shown that Dubrow's group is continuing, and they are continuing to use pretendian ways in their programs. This is still going on, and we have no reassurances that you are not still involved with it.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Interestingly, "Ninthoctave" is also a New Age practitioner, self-professed medium and mystic who follows around and pays other white mediums, psychics and "shamans." She goes by "Ninthoctave" and similar on her forums. See link below.


Advice: if you want your child to talk to you, bashing your child online is a sure way to have your desires fail miserably.


*edited to remove doxing

You should also realize that by doxing your mother you doxxed yourself. We removed the links as a kindness to both of you.

Despite the fact that you've used this board to vent, to waste our time and energy, and you appear to not have the slightest bit of concern for the harm your actions, and those of the people you support, do to Native Americans and Native American cultures.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 07:59:17 pm by Defend the Sacred »

Offline AnimaEraser

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Isn't it doxing to have Tom Undine, Daryl Mortensen, Cassandra Dara Abrams, ect... also listed on the front of this thread?
I am not convinced any of them are still practicing cultural appropriation. It appears to be harmful to continue to have their names attached to such a thread.

Offline Smart Mule

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Isn't it doxing to have Tom Undine, Daryl Mortensen, Cassandra Dara Abrams, ect... also listed on the front of this thread?
I am not convinced any of them are still practicing cultural appropriation. It appears to be harmful to continue to have their names attached to such a thread.

How is this doxing? They are accountable for their behavior.

Tom 'Sitting Wolf with Bright Vulture' Undine is providing "Native American" therapy, whatever that is http://www.addreferral.com/mr-tom-undine/

Daryl 'Loving Flowing Dolphin' Mortensen has been up to no good, while this is from 10 years ago it shows participation in appropriation http://www.ais.illinois.edu/documents/CICAIS.Conference_Glance.pdf "10:00-Noon: Tradition, Kinship, and MigrationDaryl Mortensen, University of Chicago: “Teaching Animism: Rites of Passage in Traditional Arapaho Culture” I'll look for more later.

Cassandra Dara 'Sun Owl' Abrams' dance performance has a whole piece steeped in appropriation. https://www.newcitystage.com/2014/04/17/preview-growing-into-beingbrave-and-barefoot-dance-troupe/ More research to follow.


eta
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 01:00:50 am by Smart Mule »

Offline Smart Mule

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Also, AnimaEraser, you need to decide which account you would like to keep or we will have to decide for you. We do not allow socks.

Offline Defend the Sacred

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What is it with the people in this thread and the sockpuppetting?

Seems like these exploiters drew some unethical people to them, who haven't really learned much since leaving. Or staying, as the case may be. I hate to say that about people who've been exploited, but there are also concerns that some of the people who've posted here are still part of this group, and have misrepresented themselves. Or they are other newagers who have gone on to continue this same sort of stuff, just with slightly different personnell.

We have some real concerns that people might have tried to use our forum to collect the former members of this cult, and not for good reasons.

If anyone on here asks you to contact them, be wary. There's only so much we can do to vet people who post here, and still keep this an open forum. While the core members of this board have known each other for a long time, and many of us know each other in person and are even relatives, many other people who post here are total strangers. We do our best to check people out, but if we're going to give people the chance to tell their side of things, we have to give new accounts a certain degree of leeway to even tell if they're who they say they are.

Offline AnimaEraser

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I was not trying to be sneaky by creating a second account; I couldn't get the password to my other account. I really don't mind whatever name I am given. I'm not trying to wear socks whatever that means? (not leave foot prints...) I know all of these people who are posting--to a degree--and know who still maybe enacting.

The 3 people I had listed have stopped practicing appropriation and wasn't sure what exactly the length of needing to have one's name listed on the website is. It doesn't seem to benefit anyone to have their name here if they have since changed their thinking. Especially because, as you admins can imagine, we were somewhat forced to have Dubrow's appropriation be a part of our professional image. It wasn't really up for debate. He pushed us all into it. Thus, if you (as admins) really consider the type of psychological trauma to be real that we all experienced--it isn't exactly easy to have professional identity be separate from him. I don't think anyone wanted to have that war with him.

If you're not interested in changing the previous posts, then this is a statement that Tom Undine, Daryl Mortensen, and Cassandra Dara Abrams no longer participate in indigenous appropriation. I cannot speak to the others you listed much earlier, but I know that everyone who took part in the community / cult are still healing from the wounds caused. I don't think it does any good to list the people who worked with Dubrow, including his spouse, because we were all under his spell--believe it or not. If anything, I think you'd want to "do your research" and really determine if people are actually still practicing appropriation and have them have their own thread. What this thread has done with their names doesn't seem to be helpful.

These thoughts come from my consultation with indigenous people, psychological professionals who have dealt with cults, and appropriation. Either way, the dynamic is not the same; we aren't doing his deeds and continuing his legacy of such matters.

Offline Smart Mule

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A sockpuppet is an additional account. One of the posters in this thread had seven. I think that's a record here.

Tom Undine is still appropriating. I provided a link to show you. Here I will post it again - http://www.addreferral.com/mr-tom-undine/ He claims to provide Native American therapy. There's no such thing.

As of two years ago Cassandra was still appropriating, I posted a link.

It's possible Daryl may have changed but it's very difficult to believe that he has.

His legacy is continuing in that we had somebody in this thread using multiple sock puppets and encouraging individuals to reach out to them as supposedly different people. This is incredibly disconcerting.

Offline AnimaEraser

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I didn't know that. That is too bad; this is all too bad.
 :'(