Re: Yet another thread on who gets to decide who is NDN [tangent from Kymberlee Ruff thread]

[menotomy]

Ok, this person is BS. 
BUT PLEASE do not put so much weight on a freaking DOCUMENT.
Doing this means something in limited situations such as this, but not much in the big picture.

I see this website as a place where people find some 'historical document' which validates or invalidates something.
This is like archeologists who call anything before 1500 CE 'Pre History'.  They call it Pre History because there are no earlier documents. 

Why the focus on 'officially recognized' BS status, or on documents????

Please.  Let me find a place where people have eyes and hearts.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

.

[Defend the Sacred]

Menotomy, the Cherokee people have a right to say who is and isn't considered Cherokee. Their methods are not for non-Cherokee to decide. As I hope you are learning from reading the site, people aren't here to "feel NDN in their hearts". This forum is about defending the cultural sovereignty of the Native peoples as the actual members of those living communities define themselves.

Since this looks to turn from documentation and discussion on why Kymberlee Ruff is not a representative of Indigenous people into yet another tangent on who gets to decide who is and isn't NDN, I am moving this to ETC.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

.

[earthw7]

I think that WE as Native people of this land get to decide who belongs to our tribal nations.
We decide who is a member and who is not of a memebr of our people and at no time does anyone
have the right to tell us whether or not they belong to our nations unless they can prove who they
are and YES you have to prove who you are:
1. Being on the rolls of a nation
2. Accepted by the people of that nation
3. Know the langauge and culture of that nation
4. Most of all knowing the family you come from-Name-Band-Clan-Society.

We use methods available to us such as the Dawes Act or Rations list or Enrollment records.
Each Nation has a different method and it is their right to decide.

Now if a person thinks..... maybe they have Native blood then they need to find that history,
then they need to prove that history to the nation to be recongized by them not by the United States
but by the Tribal Nation. Each nation has their own rules so some say you have to be 1/2 blood to 1/16 blood
other has have descendancy but each make their own decisions. 

[earthw7]

Just because maybe your family was maybe a part of a tribal nation a 100 years ago
does not mean you have any right to the way of life, spirituality and culture. That is
something you have to live with among your people. If you really think you wants this
then make a trip to the reservations and make your self know and everyone will want
to know how you claim this background so be ready for questions but if you are truthful
the people will accept you.
As we say Being Indian is hard why would someone want to be? Unless they are a real descednat
Why do we get upset with all these claims because we dont see them in our circle we dont see them
helping our people, we them who only want to take from us. So be ready to defend yourself, it is the way.
If people had you believe that Native people are all love and peace then you are looking in the wrong area.
We are warrior people. We will fight as we have been fighting for 500 years as we fight against the frauds
who steal our culture.
Sorry to get in an up roar but really people it is only the native people who decided who we are

[LittleOldMan]

well said  "LOM"

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Absolutely Earthw7.

[Defend the Sacred]

Thank you, LaDonna.

[E.P. Grondine]

Earthw7 -

Absolutely, BUT...

if when that other 50% is African they are not Cherokee, but
if when that other 50% is European they are Cherokee,

without looking at the individual,
then I have to question your leaderships' judgment.

I know there were Africa slaves who some Cherokee brought with them to the west, BUT

I also know that the Confederacy promised the Cherokee their original lands if they helped them preserve slavery, while many Cherokee fought for the Union because they hated slavery. I know this led to a long and bitter battle among the Cherokee leadership. BUT

I hope no other nation makes a similar blanket decision, neglecting to examine  the individual.

I also have to add that I believe the Cherokee leadership has caused problems for themselves which they could have avoided entirely by deciding to examine each individual person as a person. BUT I know this is a lot of work for them.

I will not comment further on this publicly, because I am also certain the leadership of the Cherokee know more about this than I do.

And it is not my business. BUT once again, I hope no one else follows the Cherokee leaderships' decision, making blanket decisions and not looking at the individual.

[earthw7]

Sorry not a cherokee so cant answer for them :-\

[wolfhawaii]

The decision was made to only allow those individuals who can trace their ancestry back to an ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls as Cherokee By Blood.