Hello from SeidMadr

[SeidMadr]

Hi,
I found this group during a search and thought it looked interesting. Money hunger in spirituality and religion has been a pet peeve of mine since I was in my mid-teens(I'm 46 now).

In my early teens I started to become disatified with the answers that christianity couldn't give me. I was born a sensitive, its not something I have control of or happens all the time, but when it kicks in, I've always been right. At about 14 studying different religions, mythology and anthropology became my favorite hobby.

My father always taught me I was part Native American, Lakota, so I read about thier traditions. Later in life I discovered that my father had been stretching the truth a lot. I still have a love of nature and respect all life because of my studies though.

These days I am mostly focused on studying the Shamanic traditions of the Celtic and Germanic tribes since they are my true ancestory. I do continue to study the traditions of other cultures in hopes of being lead to practices that may have been similiar to my ancestors, also because I still love learning about other cultures.

Mundanely, I am a proud veteran of 3 deployments. I love camping, hiking, fishing and have done some hunting. I also have a fascination with primitive weapons.

Roy Brewster
AKA SeidMadr

[earthw7]

Hello from lakota country, sorry that happen to you on a daily bases i get reports
of people who tell their children stories that are not true. i have to be the one to say
no you are not a member :(

[SeidMadr]

Actually, I'm not sorry about my fathers lies. My research of Lakota and other Native American traditions lead me to researching other Shamanic traditions, and helped me on my path to find my true heritage. It is my personal belief we can learn from each other, we are all children of the same Mother Earth after all.

[Defend the Sacred]

Fàilte, Roy,

With respect, personally, I shy away from anyone using the term "shamanic" for any of the traditions of the Six Celtic Nations. I know Ronald Black used the term once or twice in describing traditional visionary practices, and I respect his work, but I think that much as we see with Native American lifeways, it's an inappropriate term.

The diverse cultures - Native American and European - have terms in the native languages already.  Anthropologists who like to lump any spiritual or visionary practices together under "shamanism" use it, as do newagers and ceremony-sellers like the Matthews (who are largely to blame for newage attempts to pass off mimicries of Plains NDN traditions as "Celtic"), but I think if we're respecting the ancestors, the languages, and the living cultures we shouldn't lump these things together or call them by Siberian terms. :)

As far as I know, you and I don't know one another, so I'm not commenting on your personal practice. I just like to make sure we keep these things clear as this board is for opposing newage lumpings of traditional cultures under the "shamanic" label.

Again, welcome.  :)

[SeidMadr]

I use the word "Shamanic" because it is understood, if I was to use the word Seidcraefter most people would be clueless to what I mean. For that matter, even amongst those who study Germanic Pagan paths there is a lot of debate to what Seidr actually is. The same goes for the word Druid, I've heard wild claims that Moses was a Druid.

The word Shaman was good enough for Joseph Campbell, and I am a huge fan of his, so I will continue to use. Perhaps I made a mistake joining this group. I believe we need to pull together as one people and remember that we are all children of the same Earth.

Thank you,
Roy

[Laurel]

Roy,

There is a lot of debate over what a "shaman" is--a LOT. Its usage is much more problematic than the usage of Seidr, or even Druid, because it's so much more widespread.

Why not use the terminology preferred by the community you've joined? Isn't that simply the polite thing to do? Isn't being respectful a big part of "pulling together"?

Truly--you can see why using "Druid" indiscriminately can be problematic and why, but not using "shaman/ic"? It's the same thing.

[RunsWithScissorz]

Why not use the terminology preferred by the community you've joined? Isn't that simply the polite thing to do? Isn't being respectful a big part of "pulling together"?

Hi Laurel,

I'm not SeidMadr ;)  but reading this and wondering "what" terminology would be best used here in place of the problematic "shaman/shamanic"?  I thought of "medicine" but that doesn't seem to work well because individuals can have and use "medicine" (in the spiritual sense) personally without taking it to the level that the term "shamanic" illustrates.  "New-ager/nuager" also doesn't work, as many interests fall under that heading. 

With respect.

[Laurel]

Hi 4Bears,

What an excellent question! I can only give you my take on this, which is similar to Kathryn's--call the practitioners by the words their own people use. I've cut the s-word almost entirely out of my vocabulary because seems both too vague and too specific (Siberian).

To me, a term like "shamanic religions" is, again, too vague to be useful. I like the books of Joseph Campbell too, but IMO he had a tendency to lump everything together to fit his "monomyth," sort of like Fraser seeing dying gods everywhere he looked and Harner deciding all "shamans" do the same things, make the same journeys to the same places, etc.

If we mean people who work with the spirits or gods directly, is it proper/accurate to call them "visionaries" or "mystics," or does that only make things more confusing?

I hope someone else will weigh in on this? Or, if it ought to be on another thread, I apologize for going O/T.

[RunsWithScissorz]

Laurel, I hear you!  :)

Referring to the practitioners by the terms their people use would probably be the most respectful way to go about that end of it, but honestly, I don't know what the Anishnabe (or the Pawnee, or the Shoshone) call their tribal spiritual workers/healers -- their term would be in their language!  Even "medicine man/woman", while more or less universally understood, is in English and English may not have a correct translation for whatever term is used by this tribe or that tribe.  Come to that, "medicine man/woman" certainly wouldn't be a correct term for ancient Celtic practitioners or other European groups. 

Then there is the "other" end, that of the fakes -- if we are being really (painfully) correct, if someone is conducting a Lakota sweat lodge under false pretenses, that individual is not being a "fake shaman" because he/she is not conducting a fake *Siberian* sweat lodge. 

Okay, gotta brain cramp here ...   :P

With respect.

[Defend the Sacred]

As I see it, there is no universally-applicable term, and that is the point. The cultures are different, so there are different terms.

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

Well, my 2cents..  

If we used the correct terminology, (if we learned what that is) then that would
only give frauds more credibility if they find that terminology.. then they could
advertise by discounting the 'shaman' term and throwing in the correct term..
making them seem more credible and drawing more business/customers to their con.

I would suggest if one states they are studying "shamanic" ways of this or that people, then they are
uneducated in those ways..  sort of throws a red flag.. perhaps the better term would be to say they
are studying belief systems.. or spiritual ways.. or.. better yet, keep it private.

By leaving it as "shaman" we get a good red flag...  

As for communications on a public board, it would be expected (i would think?) that newcomers
are most likely going to use and refer to that term as that is what they know.. and have no
other point of reference to speak of what that term implies.

Having said that..

I think Kathryn was right in correcting the OP, and that should be as it is. It is (i think?) in the realm
of this board to educate people on these matters.. and... It is up to the new comer to look around and
read the board to gain a better understanding, and try to communicate in a better way instead of stating
"shaman" like it is a valid and acceptable term, when it is not.

It's too bad the OP left the board instead of staying and possibly learning something..

[earthw7]

For me Shaman does not relate to Native people
of course if you are talking about people from Russia
i can understand