star777 and apophis from Oz

[star777]

Hi All,

We are from Australia and came across your site through research on 'shamanism'. Big shout out to all of you for your excellent work, we have passed the site onto many people who are into 'new age' and occult spirituality - but unsurprisingly, doesn't go down to well ;D.

I, Star777, lived in Byron Bay - Australia, for sometime and oh my various gods that place is knee deep in pseudo-spiritual clap trap you could run a fraud site on that tiny town alone!  your site helped me to tighten up my thinking even further - especially regarding this shamanism ra-ra so popular of late, your site helps one sort out the garbled, mixed claims especially the stuff about Mayan asencion (oh gods :-\), quetzalcoatl et al.

We have been working with our own beliefs and practises for some time, and could be termed occultists of a thelemic bent, however, we are rather unpopular for our critical approach to what passes for spirituality both in mainstream and 'counter-culture' groups. We run a workshop group where we live but are very careful with checking peoples claims of 'lineage' - your site is extremely helpful in this regard, and also has informed us how to navigate this very difficult area sensitively and with respect.

I have come across a lot of similar crap in the so called pagan and 'celtic' witchcraft community and I think what you are dealing with over in the states is very similar to a lot of the rubbish over here. Especially the adoption of indigenous/ traditional cultural terminologies etc to cloak ignorance. And of course...it all comes down to the mighty dollar. The same thing is happenning to our indigenous people over here...sadly.

As for my ancestry - I am a mongrel (i.e. a mix of I don't know what) and don't feel I have any authentic connection to anything and do not claim NDN heritage or anything else!....so for now I work it out for myself and until I can come across some teacher of any kind who is authentic...perhaps on the web? joke!
til then I'll be using my critical thinking skills.

I think for mmany who have no authentic heritage ignorantly envy the authenticity of your culture - but that should never be an excuse for trying to bust into it and expect to be included just because you have 'the right intent' or some such rubbish...

Hope we can help if anyone has questions about western ceremonial/esoteric tradition, thelema, being garbled in with NDN stuff, otherwise, we just thought we'd say hello and thanks and continue sharing your site with others who might other wise be duped by these 'authentic' 'shamans' and their endless SEMINARS ! arrrrgh



Respect.

[nemesis]

Hello star777

Given your interest in Thelema I would be interested for you to say a little more about your thoughts on the use of sex within occult groups.

I assume you are a woman from your user name and I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

My views, for what it's worth..

I generally feel that what consenting adults get up to is their own business and nobody else's.  However I am concerned that any religious / spiritual / magickal group that incorporates sex into its practice is probably going to lead to abuses sooner or later.

There again I'm just an old fashioned romantic when it comes to sex and I appreciate that other people have different views.

Also, I would be interested in your thoughts on the concept of sacred prostitution.  Do you believe that the concept can ever have validity?

I would be interested in your lineage

Are you from the Typhonian or Caliphate OTO or from some other lineage?

Also what are your thoughts on the use of drugs within magickal practice?

[nemesis]

star777

I didn't mean to scare you off

Please excuse my cutting to the chase and being quite direct

I am genuinely interested in your views on the subjects I listed

[star777]

Hi Nemesis, You didn't scare me off, I've just been offline for a few days. Yes I am a woman :)

I have been part of the Caliphate OTO but for reasons of my own have resigned from being an active member at this stage.

As much as many might hope when they join such an order I have never come across anything such as group sexual activites or rituals which incorpoprate sex directly. :) Sex magick has many interpretations, and although Crowley et al were notorious for their drug fuelled orgiastic behaviour this is not the norm. The OTO strictly operates within the law and NEVER allows drugs at any of their meetings or functions. In fact, the doors to the temple are shut if someone turn up drunk or high. As the main tenet of thelemic philosophy is 'Do what thou wilt' respecting the divine will of others is the sovereign rule, thus coercion, abuse etc have no place in the lives of those who call themselves Thelemites.
My husband has been part of the order for decades and never saw anything like this and we are both acquainted with the administrative heriarchy in Oz.

However I have seen some so-called thelemites who frequently use drugs to attain gnosis. More often than not this is a poor and weak excuse for those who lack discipline to develop magickal skill and experience through discipline such as meditation and self-examination. I have also had the situation where, because of a total misunderstanding of what Babalon or Scarlet Woman means some very weak willed charachters have assumed that women who live by the law of thelema are available, all of the time. This is rubbish. Babalon is the divine mother, but rather than being meek and passive like Mary, she is dynamic strong and empowered.

[star777]

You can find an essay by crowley online called 'Every Woman is a star'. Some aspects are a little outdated as it was written 90 years ago but it encapsulates well thelemic philosophy on Babalon and the scarlet woman. That being said, not all thelemic women are scarlet women. A scarlet woman is a kind of Pythia or Pythoness, as well as being self-empowered - and that of course includes her sexuality. However, sex gets too much of the focus. It should be in harmony with all the other aspects and drives of our being. The problem with being a thelemic woman or even a scarlet woman in the world where christian superstition still predominates is that many mistake a confident, empowered woman for a sexually available street walker.
Some people I guess choose to become sacred prostitutes, I know of a person formerly a man who worked with the babalon energy so much that he became unbalanced and is now a transexxual prostitute. That is not to say that transsexuals are unbalanced, but this is what occurred in his case. Prior to working with Babalon he did not have any gender confusion. I have worked with Babalon energy and I can see how such a thing can happen. However all the gods or archetypes or whatever are multi layered. Babalon's power on the lowest level is purely sexual, on the higher levels, this become alchemical and symbolic of directed will - and much more potent. I think that many who start to work with Babalon get stuck on the 'lower' level and mistaking it may become drawn to sacred prostitution or rampant promiscuity. My personal opinion of sacred prostitution is that it does not involve payment of cash! In theory, I suppose as in any job one could turn bein a prostitute into a divine act, but I believe true sacred prostitution involves using the intense power of sexuality in a yogic way for alchemical purposes. It is more effective not to actually use the sex act in such workings, but rather use it to raise kundalini power. This cannot be done without strong practise in meditation, something which Crowley among others constantly stresses.

Sexual magnetism is powerful magickally, and can be used to raise kundalini, but to get lost in promiscuous sex because you think it is being a real thelemite misses the point drastically.

[star777]

I think it would take a high level of awareness to use sexual prostitution effectively and it is just too easy - as is the case with drugs - to use it inappropriately and thus fail to achieve the magickal gnosis one is aiming for. Control is the aim of magick, directing ones will and the law of thelema is DO WHAT THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW. Not do whatever makes you feel good. Inappropriate use of drugs and sex more likely leads one away from ones will than to gnosis.

If anyone does get involved in an occult group, they should first study critical thinking and meditation techniques to enable them to navigate the sometimes murky waters. If they feel uncomfortable they should listen to that. No self-respecting magician or so called thelemite uses sex as part of initation rituals. The sanyassins/rajneeshis although not occult are a case inpoint of how 'free love' and sex can cause untold damage. I would reccommend everyone to read the post in another forum about signs of abusers.

If people want to do sexual magick, it should only be alone or with a partner they have very good reason to deeply trust as magickal links fromed through such practise are extremely difficult to break. This may sound pretentious but do not mess with it till you have attained insight on such things through less exciting practises such as meditation. Most books on the subject are rubbish. It is something one can only work out after much experiential study of esoteric symbols etc.

My lineage is not from anyone calling themselves a teacher. My magickal links come through years of dreaming, astral projection, meditation, and my ancestors. I have not yet found anyone worthy of calling a teacher. Anyone who says they are is usually a joker and wants to sell you a book or a course or inflate their ego!

Err....hope that anwers your questions!