How accurate is Dances with Wolves in its depiction of Native Americans?

[Winston]

How accurate is "Dances with Wolves" in its depiction of Native Americans?

I talked to a NA jewelry seller just outside of Las Vegas and she said it was fairly accurate.

Your views?

Also, back in 2006 I drove through the Navajolands in Arizona looking for some Native American culture. But all I found were tables selling jewelry and pottery, expensive hotels, beautiful canyons, and some museums. Was I looking in the wrong place? How does one really experience Native American culture?

Here are some pics of the beautiful Navajolands I drove through:
http://www.happierabroad.com/Southwest_Photos.htm

[Ingeborg]

Ah so, a jewelry seller outside Las Vegas said it was accurate....

How did she come to be an authority on Plains cultures of some 150 years ago? I mean Las Vegas is not exactly Plains area, to begin with.

Perhaps you'd like to read this:
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/nc.htm

And regarding the "depiction of Native Americans", there were more than 500 ndn nations pre contact, and there was a large variety of cultures as well, not just the Plains cultures DWW shows a part of. So, no, DWW *cannot* be "fairly accurate" in depicting Native Americans, even if what DWW shows was correct for one of the Plains cultures.

[ska]

Dear Winston,

Regarding your comment:

". . . I drove through the Navajolands in Arizona looking for some Native American culture. But all I found were tables selling jewelry and pottery, expensive hotels, beautiful canyons, and some museums. Was I looking in the wrong place? How does one really experience Native American culture?"

Unless you are able to talk to the rocks and trees, I would suggest that the best way to learn about Native cultures is to talk to Native persons who live by their cultural ways.  Your pictures of Navajo lands don't include any of the beautiful Navajo people that the Creator put there.  It's strange that you mention "tables of jewelry and pottery" but not the people who were standing/sitting at those tables and selling these items.

Is it possible that you traveled to someone's country (Navajo homelands) without first being invited, therefore you did not have any friends to visit there?  And if you went as a "tourist", did you take any opportunities to meet people from the territories that you were traveling in?  For me, when I look at your pictures, it appears that you traveled to Navajo territories but didn't engage with the people at all - except for the few non-Native looking people in your pictures.  

[tecpaocelotl]

How accurate is Dances with Wolves in its depiction of Native Americans?

I talked to a NA jewelry seller just outside of Las Vegas and she said it was fairly accurate.

Your views?

I thought it was a bit romanticized of plains tribes.

Also, when you asked her and answered, did you ask her what tribe she was from?

Also, back in 2006 I drove through the Navajolands in Arizona looking for some Native American culture. But all I found were tables selling jewelry and pottery, expensive hotels, beautiful canyons, and some museums. Was I looking in the wrong place? How does one really experience Native American culture?

Here are some pics of the beautiful Navajolands I drove through:
http://www.happierabroad.com/Southwest_Photos.htm

When you go as a tourist to locations, you will see tourist things.

[nemesis]

I cannot even think about DWW without getting furious about the stunt that Costner regarding the development of his casino on sacred land.

Utterly disgusting.

[Smoky]

DWW succeeds as a movie, but it shouldn't be taken as a snapshot of Plains culture and its people, and certainly not of all Native Americans.  The effectiveness of any story relies on its telling.  Lackluster stories can be made great and riveting stories can be made boring, it all depends on how they're presented.  DWW has some remarkable storytelling – brilliant cast, camera work, score, scenery, etc. – but at the core the story is unoriginal and as wrought with stereotype as any other Hollywood film.

Watch the film again and take note of John Dunbar's prominence in scenes where he isn't actually physically present...  It makes it clear just how much this is NOT a story of native peoples.

If you want to watch films about Native Americans, I suggest seeing the ones that are produced by them.  Dance Me Outside, Smoke Signals, Skins, and Imprint are ones I've seen.  All really good.

And I agree with what has been said here about Navajolands.  You "experience" NA culture by getting to know people.  The Navajo folks I know are some of the coolest people ever.

I cannot even think about DWW without getting furious about the stunt that Costner regarding the development of his casino on sacred land.

Utterly disgusting.

I never heard what became of that, do you know?

[nemesis]

I never heard what became of that, do you know?

I think that the plans for the casino and associated railroad were eventually abandoned.  There was a lot of opposition to the plans, as you can imagine.  I only know from reading about it on the internet. I think that he bought a lot of bronze buffalo sculptures that were meant to be a part of it and I think I can remember reading about them being located somewhere that would have been near to the casino had it been built.

Just the very idea that Costner could create a film like DWW and then go on to plan the development of a casino on sacred land is outrageous IMO, whether it was built or not.

[Winston]

Ah so, a jewelry seller outside Las Vegas said it was accurate....

How did she come to be an authority on Plains cultures of some 150 years ago? I mean Las Vegas is not exactly Plains area, to begin with.

Perhaps you'd like to read this:
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/nc.htm

And regarding the "depiction of Native Americans", there were more than 500 ndn nations pre contact, and there was a large variety of cultures as well, not just the Plains cultures DWW shows a part of. So, no, DWW *cannot* be "fairly accurate" in depicting Native Americans, even if what DWW shows was correct for one of the Plains cultures.

Well then is DWW an accurate depiction of the Sioux tribe then? I heard that the film was originally supposed to be about the Lakotas. But due to problems, they could not shoot it in the Lakota plains, so they had to move it somewhere else where the Sioux tribe was.

Did you all at least LIKE the film?

What films about NA's would you recommend?

[Winston]

Dear Winston,

Regarding your comment:

". . . I drove through the Navajolands in Arizona looking for some Native American culture. But all I found were tables selling jewelry and pottery, expensive hotels, beautiful canyons, and some museums. Was I looking in the wrong place? How does one really experience Native American culture?"

Unless you are able to talk to the rocks and trees, I would suggest that the best way to learn about Native cultures is to talk to Native persons who live by their cultural ways.  Your pictures of Navajo lands don't include any of the beautiful Navajo people that the Creator put there.  It's strange that you mention "tables of jewelry and pottery" but not the people who were standing/sitting at those tables and selling these items.

Is it possible that you traveled to someone's country (Navajo homelands) without first being invited, therefore you did not have any friends to visit there?  And if you went as a "tourist", did you take any opportunities to meet people from the territories that you were traveling in?  For me, when I look at your pictures, it appears that you traveled to Navajo territories but didn't engage with the people at all - except for the few non-Native looking people in your pictures.  

Well I didn't know any beforehand. I just thought I'd show up and get to know them on the spot. But they seemed really shy and reserved, even in their own towns, so it didn't feel natural to try to engage them if they didn't want to engage me. I did chat with some selling those big pieces of bread though. A lot of them did not want me to take their picture. They were kind of private about that.

Should I have made some friends online first before going there? If so, through what websites? Is there a social networking site for NA's that allows non-NA's?

[Ingeborg]

Well then is DWW an accurate depiction of the Sioux tribe then?

Did you read the article I linked for you? It was written by a Lakota.
http://www.emayzine.com/lectures/nc.htm

I heard that the film was originally supposed to be about the Lakotas. But due to problems, they could not shoot it in the Lakota plains, so they had to move it somewhere else where the Sioux tribe was.

I'm not certain whether I understand this correctly.... 'Lakota' is the name these people have for themselves, 'Sioux' is what the white people called them, taking the term from a neighbouring ethnic group and shortening it. So Lakota and Sioux is the same.

The book was different - it's John Dunbar meeting the Numumu (Comanche).
If you saw the film, the you probably remember the scene when the old chief speaks to Dunbar that they were going to deal with the new white people who arrived. He takes a Spanish helmet out of a blanket and says, these were the first who came and we got rid of them. This of course is only 'accurate' when the ndns are supposed to be Numunu.

Did you all at least LIKE the film?

What would this say about the film, or in favour of the film?
If I remember correctly, the replies you got so far point at the film not being accurate. Still you ask 'us all', i.e. including ndn members of this forum, whether we 'at least' liked the film? Like, okay, so the film wasn'rt accurate, there are these misrepresentations of Lakota culture, okay, and the language is not correct, but yeah sure, we liked the film? You can't be serious.

What films about NA's would you recommend?

You cannot 'learn' about ndns from a film, or even from many films.

[piya]

Winston,

First as for DWW, I believe it was shot around South Dakota, which is Lakota lands. Lakota are part of what is the Sioux Nation. Somewhere else on these boards Earth has explained all the different bands.

As for the movie itself, the good thing about it was it employed Ndn's, and thats all.

The better films to watch would be as Weber pointed out, but look for films written / directed by Ndn 's like Sherman Alexie.

As for making friends, lots of ways to do that, but don't expect it to happen overnight.

[Ingeborg]

Should I have made some friends online first before going there? If so, through what websites? Is there a social networking site for NA's that allows non-NA's?

Winston, if you want to make friends, great, but it is no prerequisite for a holiday spent wherever.

There are enough forums where white persons are welcome and you can google them - just beware of the Wanabi forums.

When you joined a forum with an ndn majority: please behave. There are different values and codes of behaviour to observe than among white persons.

First of all, when you join, please write an introduction before getting active in the boards of that forum.

Second: do not bounce into various discussions there with the attitude of 'I know it all'. You'll be speaking to ndns there, so don't assume you know more about them than they do themselves. It is also considered rude (and 'mighty white') to join and behave like a loudmouth.

Third: being able to listen before one speaks is held high as a social value. So don't bounce in with a multitude of questions that were probably answered in that forum already and therefore you could have saved bandwidth by reading.

Fourth (as this is not exactly a combination all white people will think of): don't just listen, but also think.

[Smoky]

^ I am so guilty of about half of that.  :D

I think that the plans for the casino and associated railroad were eventually abandoned.  There was a lot of opposition to the plans, as you can imagine.  I only know from reading about it on the internet. I think that he bought a lot of bronze buffalo sculptures that were meant to be a part of it and I think I can remember reading about them being located somewhere that would have been near to the casino had it been built.

Just the very idea that Costner could create a film like DWW and then go on to plan the development of a casino on sacred land is outrageous IMO, whether it was built or not.

I only knew about it from the internet too.  I googled and found this article, it has some more on how the casino business failed as well as the bison sculptures.
http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-a-2003-08-23-6-Actor-66860232.html

Website for "Tatanka: Story of the Bison" project.
http://storyofthebison.com/index.htm

[ny1]

Dr. Blair Rudes   stated in an interview in an issue of Alumni Magazine UB Today (University of Buffalo)
That People have pointed out that The Men who spoke Lakota in the film were speaking a female Dialect.

in My own view that is because the one of the  main Language Teachers for the film was Doris Leader Charge. 

[educatedindian]

This hasn't been mentioned yet. The film was pretty racist in its depiction of the Pawnee, as bad as any western from the 50s. For me the only good thing about the film was that it showed Natives as all too human. The characters tell jokes and make mistakes. When did Hollywood ever show Natives that way before?