Fake Cherokee chief gets fed prison time, Robert Eugene Cheney AKA Soaring Eagle

[Paul123]

If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.

Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.

General fraud statutes may apply.

I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...

Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.

We'll see...

As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". but perhaps it could be tried.

Of course there are laws on the books about fraud as you pointed out above. As it should be.

I'm sure that "Chief Soaring Eagle" will soon be known as "Chief Caged Eagle" well for the next 5 years anyway.

I don't understand why James Arthur Ray isn't in jail.

But it seems that their are some that would wish to charge anyone that claims to be NDN with fraud or something. That is what I think would be a tough row to ho. It has started to sound like a witch hunt. The internet is full of people that wish so. It starts here with discussions like this. But where would it end? We don't have enough jails to put everyone in that some people say should be in jail. We don't have enough jails for the hard core offenders now. but,,,

So who do you all want in jail?

The frauds that kill people like James Arthur Ray?    Sure!
The frauds that sell memberships on the internet to wannabes?      Probability.
The Chief and Counsel members of unrecognized tribes?         I'd bet you'd say yes too,,,
The State recognized Tribes?         Another yes?
What about their members?          It'll come to that.
Heritage clubs?                  well their OK,,, but only if they choose a P.C. name
Box checkers?          Go ahead, you know that some here would say yes their frauds too.

Well did I miss anyone?



Edit:
I did understand and agree with BW that an individual has a right to identify any way they wish without fear of harm. And that there are some historic Tribes also.

[BlackWolf]

The Echota's have already proven (in legal terms) that they are a Tribe. If you (or the CNO) say other wise, then it is up to you to prove it. Again we are talking about legal, not ethical, as it was you that proposed charging them for violating the law.

Paul, I'm not so sure State Recognition of Indian Tribes is legal under Federal Law.  As pointed out in the US Constitution, only Congress has the right to have relationships with Indian Tribes.  This might be a test case here.  Maybe even something that could possibly go to the Supreme Court. 

As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". but perhaps it could be tried.

I beleive your right.  Also, musicians don't fall under this catagory.  They should though. 

[LittleOldMan]

Would this not apply      US constitution                                         Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.  "LOM"

[Don Naconna]

There is nothing in the US Constitution about recognition of Indian tribes except references to treaties with foriegn nations. States powers are covered by the tenth amendment also called the "elastic clause".

[BlackWolf]

Don Naccona said

There is nothing in the US Constitution about recognition of Indian tribes except references to treaties with foriegn nations. States powers are covered by the tenth amendment also called the "elastic clause".

The United States Supreme Court has stated in this regard that:
...the Constitution grants Congress broad general powers to legislate in respect to Indian tribes, powers that we have consistently
described as "plenary and exclusive," e.g., Washington v. Confederated Bands and Tribes of Yakima Nation, 439
U.S. 463, 470-471 (1979); Negonsott v. Samuels, 507 U.S. 99, 103 (1993); see Wheeler, 435 U.S. [313] at 323; see also W.
Canby, American Indian Law 2 (3d ed. 1998).
The "...central function of the Indian Commerce Clause, is to provide Congress with plenary power to legislate in the
field of Indian affairs." Cotton Petroleum Corp. v. New Mexico, 490 U.S. 163, 192 (1989); see also, e.g., Ramah Navajo
School Bd., Inc. v. Bureau of Revenue of N.M., 458 U.S. 832, 837 (1982) ("broad power" under the Indian Commerce
Clause); White Mountain Apache Tribe v. Bracker, 448 U.S. 136, 142 (1980) (same, and citing Wheeler, supra, at 322-323).
• The "Treaty Clause" states that [The President] shall have Power, by and with the Advice and
Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties. . ." United States Constitution, Article II, § 2, cl. 2.

[BlackWolf]

Article I, Section 8, Clause 3:

" [The Congress shall have power] To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes; "



http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html

http://tribalrecognition.cherokee.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=RWDAY9hHulM%3D&tabid=106

[E.P. Grondine]

If the representation is made with the intent to defraud, then it is criminal as part of the fraud.

Let us say for example that you have a person representing himself to be NDN, when he is not, and selling services (say sweats) as NDN services. Then that is equivalent to anyone selling goods as NDN manufacture when they are not, which is criminal under the Crafts Act.

General fraud statutes may apply.

I hope that this fellow is just the first to be prosecuted. There are others...

Perhaps this marks a new effort by Obama's appointees to BIA, DoJ, etc.

We'll see...

As for selling a sweat, I don't think that as it is written now the Crafts Act would apply as it is set to govern "Goods" not "Services". But perhaps it could be tried.

Of course there are laws on the books about fraud as you pointed out above. As it should be.

Yes, there are. For Mr. Burrows and his associates, either NAGPRA or the Crafts Act should apply.

I'm sure that "Chief Soaring Eagle" will soon be known as "Chief Caged Eagle" well for the next 5 years anyway.

I don't understand why James Arthur Ray isn't in jail.

Not yet, anyway. But with the new appointees, perhaps there is hope... Call it the audacity of hope.

But it seems that there are some who would wish to charge anyone that claims to be NDN with fraud or something. That is what I think would be a tough row to ho. It has started to sound like a witch hunt. The internet is full of people that wish so. It starts here with discussions like this. But where would it end? We don't have enough jails to put everyone in that some people say should be in jail. We don't have enough jails for the hard core offenders now. but,,,

So who do you all want in jail?

The frauds that kill people like James Arthur Ray?    Sure!
The frauds that sell memberships on the internet to wannabes?   Probably.

Agree.

The Chief and Counsel members of unrecognized tribes?  I'd bet you'd say yes too,,,

A tough one, there.

The State recognized Tribes?   Another yes?
What about their members?   It'll come to that.

No, but these issues are just part of the questions which I set out before, for which I have no answers, and the answers to which are not mine to give.

Heritage clubs?   Well, they're OK,,, but only if they choose a P.C. name

Would "Ohio Native Ancestry Association" be an acceptable name, in your opinion? How about "[state] Cherokee Ancestry Association", or ""[state] Shawnee Ancestry Association"?

Box checkers? Go ahead, you know that some here would say yes their frauds too.

I guess that would depend on the box.

Well did I miss anyone?

Yes. Jerry Pope.








[/quote]

[Paul123]

E.P. Grondine,
Thanks for your reply. If the answers were yours to give what would they be?

et al,,
Anyone else care to reply

[critter - a white non-ndn person]

It doesn't have to be jail.  Sometimes a really high fine does the job.  And maybe a bright red stamp on the forehead that says FRAUD.  :)