Author Topic: A step beyond the board  (Read 108087 times)

Offline Camilla

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2011, 04:40:11 pm »
Hair Lady, something I think to be very funny and very silly (and sad) in the same time and could be related to your last post is the following: here in Italy reporters who write in the newspapers and magazines about news or event relevant to Native People, often refers to them NOT as Lakotas, Cheyenne, Apache (or whatever), BUT as the "descendants" of the Lakota, Cheyenne, Apache (or whatever) someone talking about people from Rome nowadays would define them not simply "Romans" but "descendants of the Romans".......crazy.

Unfortunately this is one more evidence that Native People (especially Natives from North America) are alive only in a "fantasy dimension" for many Europeans (together with a lot of stereotypes): many Europeans seem not to realize that Native People are real people, eating, sleeping, loving, hating, studying, working, laughing, crying NOW, IN 2011 as any other human being......this denial of humanity, reality, actuality of Native People is one of the worst things: that's why it's so important that to talk about Native Cultures, Native People (those who are serious and reliable of course, and willing to) are given the chance to speak in person
Sorry getting off track too....
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 04:51:12 pm by Camilla »

Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2011, 05:14:21 pm »
hair lady.. a teacher can tell their student truth by telling them that true medicine people don't
write books. that will help a student a lot in staying away from the fake muck that is out there
and help keep their minds free of it.
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet


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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2011, 09:51:19 pm »
As a teacher -- not an Amerindian Studies teacher however, I feel the same as some of you.  Know your sources and verify.  We owe it to our students.  I would NOT teach spirituality in class -- just as I do not teach religion in my French/Spanish classes. 

Georges Sioui has several books out that are autohistories -- meaning, books written about First Nations people BY a First Nation person.  There are many authors who are Native that write about Native issues, history and culture.  They do not throw spirituality or ceremony into the texts.

As for professors, I have seen and heard professors that have guest speakers go to their classes to help teach.  Some have been great, others not so much.  The most horrific example of this that I've seen is a couple who went into a classroom and told the students that they could help them find their totem animals by using a deck of cards -- and pulled out the Medicine Wheel cards!

The best example is from when I was at Saskatchewan Indian Federated College (now First Nations University).  We had the elders come from the different reserves and talk to us -- through a translator.  Very good stuff there.  Their stories were incredible!   Because it was an All-Indian university (with a few non-Natives too) we had pipe ceremonies run by the elders in a private room on campus.   I'm not from a pipe culture, but I understand the importance and value so when invited to go, I went. 

That's another stereotype -- ALL Natives/Indians/Amerindians/First Nations have a pipe ceremony ... not so.

Offline Hair lady

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2011, 03:26:41 pm »
I am not a teacher and any ceremonies I know are for me and my family and people. The fact is there is no one right way. If there was and it brought us all peace that would be great but it´s not how things work. A class room is just not the place to learn about spiritual things. HOWEVER you can learn about herbs, and western medicine there, which are also obviously very important. And history, if there is any way to learn the exacte truth in that matter...well I guess not because we were not there.

Offline tecpaocelotl

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2011, 05:25:20 pm »
Also, when I'm in libraries and bookstores, I turn the covers of the good books out, displaying them prominently. And one can also make the crap books harder to find.  8)

I usually put it int he middle of the book shelves if there are no back to it, but if there's a back to the bookshelf, I usually just hide it behind the other books.

I once stumbled upon a book in a public library that someone had put their own handwritten sticker just inside the cover, three of four sentences explaining it was false and offensive.

Perhaps people can suggest a very brief all purpose statement that can be pasted on the majority of shame on books?

Reminds me of the time I posted sticky notes correcting errors on Idiot's Guide on Native American History.

Sure, first on the list:  The Secret.

Have to figure how many words can be used on the sticker.  Something like, The material in this book is not authentic.  ?  That's a little lame ..  perhaps something more harsh.  To jolt a person into doubting that it's a good idea to read it .

With that book, you would put:

Warning: May cause illogical thinking.

More books to the list:

From Miguel Ruiz:
The Four Agreements
The Fifth Agreement
The Mastery of Love
Four Agreements Companion Book
The Voice of Knowledge
Prayers: A Communion with Our Creator

Carlos Castaneda:
The Teachings of Don Juan
A Separate Reality
Journey to Ixtlan
Tales of Power
The Second Ring of Power
The Eagle's Gift
The Fire From Within
The Power of Silence
The Art of Dreaming
Magical Passes
The Active Side of Infinity
The Wheel of Time
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 01:25:08 am by Kathryn »

Offline Defend the Sacred

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2011, 09:18:00 pm »
Warning sticker for Castaneda books:

"WARNING - Consumption may lead to drug abuse, disorientation, arrogance, loss of touch with consensus reality, insistence there is no such thing as "reality", amoral behavior, and alienation from friends and family as you proceed to inflict these new beliefs and bad behavior upon them."

Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2011, 02:40:11 am »
I will stand and say I loved the first 4 Castaneda books and
they taught me to care about others and to work on my own
ego/arrogance. And it was clear in those books that peyote
was used ceremonially, not as recreation. It was always
clear on that.

The next 5 or so books were completely different.  Creating

My stickers on the 1st 4 would say: Fraudulent story be better
off studying Buddhism.

The rest I'd say: Completely made up he admitted it himself
that he made the whole thing up.  Reading this could seriously
injure your mental health and relation to Earth, Humanity, Reality,
and you self.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2011, 03:34:08 am by critter - a white non-ndn person »
press the little black on silver arrow Music, 1) Bob Pietkivitch Buddha Feet

Offline aya

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2012, 09:38:40 am »
I have to agree, any source of information, if these are books/authors or websites about the real life-style and philosophy, tradition and myths would be really good.
I mean all I e.g. have are the history books with the wars and and maps of the tribes, books from Ethnolgists and the books of Tom Brown - I don't know if he is a fraud or not. In every case ALLLLLL of them are white people.
This is in fact something that bothers since ever, and not only related to your culture, but in general - all information we get, are written and offered from white people, and from those who live these traditions. So it is a natural consequence that misinterpretation and misinformation goes along with that.
In my sense, a source of information would be helpful and prevent lots of misuse and deception of your culture.

Offline earthw7

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 08:08:45 pm »
It does not matter because the written word is up for interpetation just look at the bible
In Spirit

Offline Pono Aloha

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2012, 07:51:55 am »
I totally support the sticker idea and hope we can come up with maybe a highly distinctive logo and one to three words -- the "Just Do It" of new age fraud fighting.

I disagree though with putting the Secret on the list, unless I missed something (granted, I didn't read the thing but I did see the movie, ugh.) I don't remember any references to Native beliefs.

I have a whole load of Huna books to put on the list, plus, having recently been in Australia, I was reminded that "Mutant Message Down Under" was a fraud -- Aboriginal elders actually came to the US to fight the book, yet it was re-released on its 10th anniversary.

Here's an idea: a sticker that says "FRAUD." Or "FICTION."

Offline Smart Mule

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2012, 03:29:56 pm »
Pono, James Arthur Ray was in The Secret.

Offline Pono Aloha

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2012, 08:09:57 am »
Sky, thanks, ugh. I see Rhonda has a new book out, "The magic." I always feel a magic repulsion with these books. I pick them up, read one sentence, and put it down. Is that book full of frauds too?


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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2012, 06:47:57 pm »
Hmmm....I have an excel sheet that is a suggested reading list.  It was given to me by one of the members of the group I belonged to for 10 years.  I am sure that there a few books on the list that are reputable.  IE Vine Deloria, and some other anthropological books.  However, There is a whole slew that I know are pure crap.  Now if I can just find a way to attach the spreadsheet to a post.... any thoughts?


Offline debbieredbear

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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2012, 08:59:36 pm »
would be interesting to see.


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Re: A step beyond the board
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2012, 04:28:34 am »
So here is the list.  Here is my disclaimer.  The list is unabridged.  I am not stating an opinion as to wether all of these books are fradulent or not.  I am sure many of them are.  I am sure some are not.  This list was compiled by a "ceremonial leader", as a tool to help people.
If a book is reputable, let me know and I will edit this post and remove it, so as to not confuse anyone.

Author (Last, First)   Title
Ambrose, Stephen E.   Crazy Horse and Custer: The Parallel Lives of Two American Warriors
Anderson, J. A.   The Sioux in Rosebud: A History in Pictures
Arden, Harvey & Wall, Steve   Wisdomkeepers: Meetings with Native American Spiritual Elders
Arden, Harvey (Compiler)   Noble Red Man: Lakota Wisdomkeeper Mathew King
Beck, Peggy & Walters, Anna   The Sacred: Ways of Knowledge, Sources of Life
Bettelyoun, Susan   With My Own Eyes: A Lakota Woman Tells Her People's History
Black Elk   Black Elk Speaks: Being the life story of a holy man of the Oglala Sioux
Black Elk, Wallace H. & Lyons, William S.   Black Elk: The Sacred Ways of the Lakota
Bleeker, Sonia   The Sioux Indians: Hunters and Warriors of the Plains
Bopp, Judie and Michael; Brown, Lee; Lane, Phil   The Sacred Tree
Boyd, Doug   Mystics, Magicians and Medicine People
Boyd, Doug   Rolling Thunder: A personal exploration into the secret healing powers of an American Indian medicine man
Brave Bird, Mary, with Erdoes, Richard   Ohitika Woman
Brown, Dee   Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee: An Indian History of the American West
Brown, Joseph E.   Animals of the Soul: Sacred Animals of the Oglala Sioux
Bucko, Raymond (microfilm)   The Lakota Ritual of the Sweat Lodge: History and Contemporary Practice
Buechel, Eugene   A Grammar of Lakota, the Language of the Teton Sioux
Buechel, Eugene   Lakota Dictionary: Lakota-English / English-Lakota, New Comprehensive Edition
Buechel, Eugene   Lakota Tales and Text: In Translation
Canby, William   American Indian Law in a Nutshell
Catches, Pete S. Sr. & Catches, Retek V. & Catches, Cynthia L.   Oceti Wakan: Translation of; Sacred Fireplace
Churchill, Ward   Indians are Us? Culture and Genocide in Native America
Clark, Robert A.   The Killing of Chief Crazy Horse: Three Eyewitness Views
Crow Dog, Leonard  & Richard Erdoes   Crow Dog: Four Generations of Sioux Medicing Men
Crow Dog, Mary & Erdoes, Richard   Lakota Woman
Crummett, Michael   Sun Dance: the 50th anniversary Crow Indian Sun Dance
Curtis, Natalie   The Indians' Book
Dekome, Jim   Psychedelic Shamanism
Demaillie, Raymond J. [Editor]   The Sixth Grandfather: Black Elk's Teachings Given to John G. Neihardt
Erdoes, Richard   American Indian Myths and Legends
Erdoes, Richard   Crying for a Dream: The World Through Native American Eyes
Erdoes, Richard   Lame Deer: Seeker of Visions
Erdoes, Richard   The Sun Dance People: the Plains Indians, Their Past and Present
Erdoes, Richard & Lame Deer, Archie Fire   Gift of Power: The Life and Teachings of a Lakota Medicine Man
Feraca, Stephen E.   Wakinyan: Lakota Religion in the Twentieth Century
Frey, Rodney   The world of the Crow Indians: As driftwood lodges
Hammerschlag   The Dancing Healers: A doctor’s journey of healing with Native Americans
Hausman, Gerald (Editor) & Kapoun, Bob (Editor)   Prayer to the Great Mystery: The Uncollected Writings and Photography of Edwards S. Curtis
Hill, Ruth   Hanta Yo: An American Saga
Hull, Michael C.   Sun Dancing: A Spiritual Journey on the Red Road
Hutchens, Alma A.   Indian Herbalogy of North America
Lame Deer, Archie Fire & Sarkis, Helene   The Lakota Sweat Lodge Cards: Spiritual Teachings of the Sioux
Lame Deer, Archie Fire & Sarkis, Helene   The Lakota Sweat Lodge Cards: Spiritual Teachings of the Sioux (Cards)
Lazarus, Edward   Black Hills/White Justice: The Sioux Nation versus the United States: 1775 to the Present
Lewis, Thomas   The Medicine Men
Mails, Thomas E.   Fools Crow
Mails, Thomas E.   Fools Crow: Wisdom and Power
Mails, Thomas E.   Peoples of the Plains (Library of Native Peoples
Mails, Thomas E.   Plains Indians: Dog Soldiers, Bear Men and Buffalo Women
Mails, Thomas E.   Spirits of the Plains (Library of Natives Peoples)
Mails, Thomas E.   Sundancing at Rosebud and Pine Ridge
Mails, Thomas E.   Sundancing: The Great Sioux Piercing Ceremony [Illustrated]
Marshall, Joseph M. III   The Lakota Way: Stories and Lessons for Living
Marshall, Joseph M. III   Walking with Grandfather: The Wisdom of Lakota Elders
Matthiessen, Peter   In the Spirit of Crazy Horse
McLaughlin, Marie L.   Myths and Legends of the Sioux
Medicine Eagle, Brooke   Buffalo Woman Comes Singing
Neihardt, John G.   Black Elk Speaks
Parlow, Anita     Cry Sacred Ground: Big Mountain USA
Powers, Marla N.   Oglala Women: Myth, Ritual and Reality
Powers, William K.   Oglala Religion
Powers, William K.   Sacred Language: The Nature of Supernatural Discourse in Lakota
Rockwell, David   Giving Voice to Bear
Sams, Jamie & Carson, David   Medicine Cards: The Discovery of Power through the ways of Animals
Sams, Jamie & Nitsch, Twylah   Other Council Fires were here before Ours
Scout Cloud, Lee   The Circle is Sacred
Silko, Leslie Marmon   Ceremony
St. Pierre, Mark   Madonna Swan: A Lakota Woman's story
St. Pierre, Mark   Walking in the Sacred Manner: Healers, Dreamers, and Pipe Carriers -- Medicine Women of the Plains
Standing Bear, Luther   Land of the Spotted Eagle
Starita, Joe   The Dull Knifes of Pine Ridge: A Lakota Odyssey
Steinmetz, Paul B.   Pipe, Bible and Peyote among the Oglala Lakota: A Study in Religious Identity
Steltenkamp, Michael   Black Elk: Holy Man of the Oglala
Stewart, Omer C.   Peyote Religion: A History
Stolzman, William   The Pipe and Christ
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   LightningBolt
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   Seven Arrows
Storm, Hyemeyohsts   Song of Heyoehkah
Sun Bear   The Book of Vision Quest: Personal Transformation in the Wilderness
Sun Bear   The Medicine Wheel: Earth Astrology
Sun Bear   The Path of Power
Taylor, Pat Ellis (Editor)   Border Healing Woman: the story of Jewel Babb
Thunder, Mary Elizabeth   Thunder’s Grace: walking the road of visions with my Lakota grandmother
Twofeathers, Manny   The Road to the Sundance: My Journey into Native Spirituality
Votget, Fred W.   The Shoshoni-Crow Sun Dance
Walker, James R.   Lakota Belief and Ritual
Walker, James R.   Lakota Myth
Walker, James R.   Lakota Society
Yellowtail, Thomas   Yellowtail: Crow medicine man and Sun Dance chief: An autobiography
Young Bear, Severt and Theisz, R.D.   Standing in the Light: A Lakota Way of Seeing
Zimmerman, Bill     Airlift to Wounded Knee